Nano talon vs Wing wing, Li-Ion endurance test and general impressions
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Wingwing setup info page: bit.ly/393gbFC
Nikola's video: • ZOHD Nano Talon - LiIo...
4:20 Initial impressions of Nano talon
7:24 Helpful info on endurance builds, and Wingwing specifically
9:47 Parts used
13:02 Nano talon maiden flights
17:43 Endurance test overview
19:13 Nano talon test run
20:55 Nano talon result graphs
28:24 Wing wing test run
30:33 Wing wing result graphs
33:29 Result comparison
35:41 Confusion about Nano talon result
38:40 Summary (on-screen text)
Drag increases as the square of velocity so small changes in cruise speed will make a big difference in power required. Nikola's lower flight speed will have contributed significantly to this greater duration.
Power = Force (Drag) x Velocity so power required increases 8 fold if you double the speed ... so speed makes a huge difference to how far your Ah's will get you.
@@termite2691 Does it mean you should fly at a safe minimal margin of your stall speed (let's say 30% faster as INAV recommends) to get the best efficiency?
In trying to figure out why I watched the entire 40 min video, I concluded that you muddle through all these weird outcomes and mysteries in a very relateable way. Also, the excellent chase cam work adds a bit of FliteTest to your more technical, low key and detailed approach. I'm partial to my totally stock Nano Talon because it was the first plane that I got into the air on the first try and the experience did not end in disaster. The simple gyro makes for a pretty good set of training wheels.
I just came back from the field after flying my wing wing z84 into the ground and a tree...and then just pop the hatch back on and your away flying again. It's so much fun and is a very resilient airframe so you tend to just relax and throw it around. Plus it has the cool trick when you apply full up elevator at speed it stalls into a spin - let go of the sticks till it levels itself, then just pull out. Best value for money model I've owned.
fs i6x represent!
FS-i10 here :)
Props too for using FlySky for all these years. I was going to see if he had a 2W rf booster but he doesn't. Wasn't really required anyways for this test.
@@IanF-FPV when you say 2w booster, i suspect you are talking about those pieces of crap that are sold as 'DJI Boosters', They are not 2w, not even close and are in the region of 500mw!
I have owned some and they are the biggest pile of crap ive ever seen and very quickly replaced them with something that actually works.
I now run Turbowing 2.4ghz amplifiers which are not only 1000x better made and wont break in 5 mins but are actually underrated by the sellers stating they are 1w when in reality they output a max of 2.5w
I run one on each of the antenna lines and i immediately experienced orders of magnitude more range over the junk 'DJI Boosters', i fly several miles out whilst being above the clouds reaching around a mile in altitude.
forgetting how poorly those 'DJI Boosters' perform, they are so fragile that they will physically break in no time at all, my turbowing amps have been on my tx for nearly 3 years now and been super reliable.
@@stevefox3763 Actually yeah I was thinking along the lines of what you have. I think Drone Mesh might have tested the Turbowing or some other device...good stuff
@@IanF-FPV the turbowing 'RY-2.4' amps are very good, I go out of my way to make sure people avoid the superlink 'dji booster' as I've owned them and know how terrible they are and how poorly made they are!
The turbowing amps are more expensive but they perform leagues apart from the superlink ones and they will also still be working after a couple of years, the superlink ones will break in a couple of months.
Wow a comprehensive analysis.Suspect you are closet rocket scientist ;)
Shrunk down Mini Talon is what I expected too. LOL! My brain is hurting from data overload but there was SO much interesting stuff there. At the start you mentioned the instability or how it sort of "falls over" on the roll axis in manual mode AKA stability off. Me too. Scares the crap out of me for a second when it does that. I have two of these now as you probably know. One is the regular NT with the stock stabilizer but with Keith's straight wing mod. It's got a LiPo 3S 1300 and a Spektrum Rx. That's just for horsing around on short flights and with the straight wing, I really like it a lot. The second one is the NT Evo. I had their Kopilot in it but I ran out of flying season before fully getting to play with it so out comes the Kopilot and in went an F4 wing board with Ardupilot. It also has Crossfire and a Runcam Split. I have a 4s1p Liion and a 3s1p Liion to play with. My flying mate Brian now has a NT with F4 wing board with Ardupilot also. The only thing we need is spring so we'd be happy if, on this longest day for you and shortest day for us, you would kindly start shortening your days and send spring back to us?
No way - I am finally able to hang my laundry outside to dry on more than one day in a month, and I can sleep in until 3pm and still have 6 hours of daylight left!
@@iforce2d Bastard!!! LMAO!!!
Manual flying with ardupilot is a great deal more efficient than auto, spending time tuning can make a big difference. Also Nikola had the ability to benefit from thermals if he so wished
Love the comparations
I hated my nano talon until I did the flat wing mod and put the servos in the wings, now I like it a lot. When I finally get some 5g servos I'll do the tail mod too.
I'm a bit late to the show. Regarding the left leaning bank angle when flying straight; am wondering if it had a bit of rudder input, or most likely a tall-fin mounted sightly off? A right rudder-like input with left wing low would be stable flying position, but a bit less efficient than best possible as would be flying slightly sideways like a crab. Leveling the wings in flight likely would have caused a large flat turn.
If had taped a small length of yarn, or string to the top of the fuselage, I'm guessing it would have observed it slightly skewed from the centreline of the fuselage in flight.
I think ArxangelRC got more efficient current draw because of his motor and prop. It looked like he was using the stock 2204 motor and a 6030 prop and I think the thrust/amp at lower speed will be better for that setup than your 1806 on 5045. I think an 1806 motor can safely handle a 6030 prop even at 4S provided that you keep the throttle down, which you should be able to do if you are gently cruising around the field.
What a great flying location.
I'm jealous.
The Z84 doesn't get enough credit. It is a great endurance plane when using the right parts.
Im in love with my nano talon EVO, NOTHING is stock though. But thats how i like doing my fpv stuff Hahaha
Servo in every wing and tail.
New motor 1700kv, another propeller witch give 1.2kg torque on 4s (On scale, i now launch it at 35% throttle and the auw is almost 800g)
Standoffs between motor and tail to get motor away from turbulense (made it ALOT quieter and use 5amp less in cruise speed 60-70kmh at 4amp on 35% throttle) i only had it up to 130kmh and the speed keeps getting higher draws about 18amp at full throttle.
Got pan and tilt on the hood with runcam hybrid 4k.
Vtx and receiver in each wing.
Everything is laminated.
I'd be curious to see some pics as I'm setting mine up.
I like this set up, learning something everyday thanks for sharing I subscribe to you thanks again 😎
you dont have to use a voltage module to get the voltage from the IA6B rx, its very easy to modify it to report pack voltage using the centre pin on the bind socket.
You can also do it to the ia6 rx too but those are not particularly great rx's as you will already know.
I own roughly 10 IA6B rx's and ive modified all of them, once you have done one or two and got the process in your mind it only takes about 15 mins each time.
I haven't modified my two IA10B rx's yet but i believe they can be done too.
Right, I did that here: ruclips.net/video/vUC08Ky5qr0/видео.html
The ia6b would not have been my first choice anyway though, due to the size and weight.
@@iforce2d true, I have the x6b as well and there is a huge difference in weight but I prefer the ia6b for its range and robustness but you could remove all the pins except the bind and ppm as well as the case to get the weight down, never done it myself so don't know how much it would shave off but it would be a substantial amount :)
Have you ever had problems with the x6b failing to remember your tx? I have one that I have to re bind every few power ups!
👏👏👏
Kris even the difference between my SN20A speed controller and DYS XS 30A is 300ma at same speed....
that itself would give you 7 more minutes for same capacity draw......
but because you used same ESC on both wont matter...
Check the runcam nano 2, can be embebed into the foam easily since it’s so tiny
The stock nano talon motor is pretty efficient too. Unfortunately you have to do the flat wing mod to really like this plane I have to and love them with only the flat wing mod. I've wanted the z84 but you have to worry about gear placement in such a small area.
I know RC guys love reporting in 'amp hours' as if 'amps' alone is a valid way to measure energy consumption (and as if {x}S is enough), but would appreciate using a normal valid measure for these types of comparisons like joules or watt-hrs.
I prefer watt-hours too, but the batteries are sold using Ah so that's what everyone is familiar with. The other thing to consider is that voltage only changes by about 20% or less over the course of a discharge (4.2V to 3.5V) so it's not wildly inaccurate to consider it a constant. Finally, in this particular video I'm using the same battery for both planes so the airframe efficiency comparison as a ratio is still valid, regardless of whether units are true energy or just current*time.
As far as that -13° roll, I would verify that your ruddervators are manually centered. If they are off at all it will cause a slip, causing a slow turn which the flight controller will attempt to correct with roll while in modes that attempt to hold a course such as auto.
That's the conclusion I'm leaning toward too... :) Even though the tail looks perfectly straight, when flying in auto-level hands off it does yaw slightly to the right. I wouldn't have thought it was enough to require so much roll to correct, but perhaps it does.
iforce2d I hope that’s it!
Do test with your Falcon. I can do straight ways with 43-44% throttle at 1.67 -2.18 amps ( very calm day) and 41 to 50Km/h.
Motor Turnigy 2830-1000KV / Prop 8x6.
Damn, only the 127th..., though visiting two times a day for new videos.....
You can click the bell thingy to "All", and go about your day ; ) Also, if you're really thirsty, you can enable notifications on your phone and get pestered by RUclips literally night and day.
That plane you describe in the text at the end... You might have to build it 😊
If I do, let me show you it's features hahahaha
Is the wing wing z-84 just good for everything? Small size, light weight, glides very well on a light setup, very fast and agile on lots of power and flies long distances on an endurance setup. Maybe I should save up some money to get myself one of these.
... and cheap :)
Can you make a new video of your own diy flight controller
Really hate the nano talon it never does what I want.
Like you said its expensive
@ 21:00 what is the software you are using?! is all this data logged on the FC? That is beautiful!
Mission Planner. Yes, the FC has an SD card onboard.
How does the C1 Chaser wing perform vs Z-84?
Not really a direct comparison if you're talking about endurance, pretty different weight class. They handle about the same though I guess. With C1 chaser I can get 40 minutes from about half a 3S 5.2Ah pack if that helps any.
could different motors and props make such a big difference ?
Im not an expert but that spar that broke holds the wings in a dihedral configuration so if one wing is bouncing up and down then the aircraft is going to bank ot the left or right randomly... no?... oh also this airframe is notorious for this exact issue lol lazily listing to the left
21:36... No doubt due to the battery voltage drop.
Hey.
Will you bild nano yourself?
Or drawings or size.
Motor type brand etc, and ESC.. used on the wing wing please! I mean I have one but my weights in an excess of around a pound plussssss......
DYS 1806 motor, all brands seem about same weight. 12A vgood ESC
Does slop in the servos matter once air flows over the surface?
If the control surface is constantly pressing in the same direction opposing the air flow, I guess not. A good analogy might be the steering wheel in your car. If you were constantly turning in a circle the slop probably wouldn't be noticeable. But when you want to drive straight....
Weight and drag. Like real aircraft all up weight needs to be cut back. I’d always assumed autopilot would be more efficient in terms of more accurate stick adjustments and course corrections, interesting !
What sort of tape is that at about 11:20 (the string reinforced one)?
I think it's just called fiber reinforced tape... not sure.
Can you please make a video of your f4 pro ardupilot setup
That's very vague. What do you want to know exactly? I think the answers will be here:
ardupilot.org/copter/docs/common-loading-chibios-firmware-onto-pixhawk.html
ruclips.net/video/LyNlnVo8TdA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/WVI7B4IfdKI/видео.html
LG MJ1 discharge only up to 10A, it really enough on fixed wing UAV?
Both of these planes were only drawing 2-3 amps. For larger planes, you can use more cells in series, so less current is required for the same power output.
You may have previously threatened putting an autopilot on the Tinywing. Is that still on the menu?
I have the parts (omnibus f4 nano, 3.3v buck/boost regulator) but the tiny fiddly-ness of the soldering is putting me off for the time being.
@@iforce2d I used to have a problem with tiny stuff until I found the joys of 30AWG silicone wire. Now I actually prefer it.
Temps go down by about 3 degrees Centigrade per thousand feet. Battery got cold ?
I've been thinking of testing that with a temp module plugged into the ia6b, I've wondered how high you have to go to get a meaningful drop in temps.
By your statement I'm looking at a 15-18c drop in temps!
@@stevefox3763 Its called the laspe rate. It varies according to pressure.
I think a 15°C drop would take about 4000m or 13000ft.
ruclips.net/video/zAT1JPcVyc8/видео.html
The mission altitude is only 100m so probably not relevant, in any case both planes were at the same height.
change prop, lower speed, test again.
Do you charge your LG battery liion with programm lipo or programm liion ???
19:06
@@iforce2d
I believe have seen you charge it on programm liion, it means end charge to 4.1v/cell. Spec of your LG 18650 announced to 4.2v for end charge , it means your liion can support charge with programm lipo .
I charge my Liitokala battery (21700 size) with programm lipo till 4.2v/ cell since more of one year with no problem.
Too look on others 18650 size with 3500 mah capacity who could perform better, Lg MJ1 are a little old now ...
What was the website for the Wing Wing setups?
oops. I added link in the description
iforce2d thanking you :)
I crashed badly my nano talon on the first flight. Need to glue it back ;D. It's my first plane and i don't think it was a good idea to buy this one but whatever ;p.