Mid drive motors are probably more efficient and stronger, and all that. I don’t like to be shifting while riding versus just twist the throttle. So, I have to choose hub motors.
1500watt motor vs 750watt motor .hub motor has twice the watts .on the flat road that might work fine but if you have hills or want to haul some serious weight around that mid drive will smoke that hub motor every time!
Yes exactly. Now you do have gear hub motors that can do decent but when it comes to hills my middrive can climb much better and maintain to speed like if you were flat ground and that on a 15% incline in upper 26 to 27mph without hesitation. No single gear hub or direct drive even at 1500w will do about 18 mph on same hill. Now my 2wd gear hub does good and does 27mph on same hill but it two 1000w gear hub motors with two 25 amp controllers and separate batteries and doing 195 n.m, of torque. It also with the cost of a lot more weight. Where the Bafang Ultra 1500w bike is light maneuvers and handles better and does just as good.
I'm interested in the geared hub motor on the on the Wired Freedom that does 40mph and that's with fat tires. That is surely the holy grail of hub motors.
If u thing hub motor is superior to a mid drive why all the big names bike manufacturers Trek specialized Giant and other brands in Europe used mid drive motor?
European power limits and weight, especially on emtb's and the mtb people looking at low weight stuff dont want a 10kg hub motor other than that i live in Europe aswell and the BBSHD smokes any ebike on the market, it even smokes speed pedelecs if i unlock speed (i ride a "legal" xD bike) but to be fair the Bosch CX peaks at like 700W and the Brose stuff even higher, nevermind the 120Nm TQ motor but they market it as 250W cuz of European shit rules I still dont care and ride at 1500W, till it reaches 25kph, but then again uphill i still ride 20+ 😂😂
Nah, the 250 watt limit is average over 30 minutes. There is no instantaneous power limit. Also, since the conditions under which the maximum continuous motor power must not exceed 250 W aren't specified, most power ratings are entirely made up. The same motor is often sold with different labels.
I have an Onyx CTY2 that tops out at 54 miles an hour, and it uses a direct drive hub motor. I’ve been looking at getting another bike, and I’ve been considering the wired freedom which has a geared hub motor. I’m not so sure the geared motor is the right way to go for me.
Believe with the DD motors to perform just as good as a MD or gear if magnets in motor at 35mm of a 1500 watt and up with 52v battery. I have a gear bike and a non gear , with the 1500watt DD the bike is extremely powerful and the get up speed is fast of accelerating. Even the steep hills my DD is awesome with no pedal assist..
If you want a proper comparison of mid vs hub drive, I suggest you skip this video and look for another one. A better comparison is to get a single rider who has never experienced E-bikes to do a time trial of each bike, fully-charged, over the same course with combination of uphills, flats, etc. Hence keeping as much variables the same, unlike this vid….
biggest problem i hear is that you have a humongous amount of gears, i only use a 7spd, mine came with a 48T chainring and i only use gear 2, 4 and 6 cuz 7 is a 11t in my case and it actually performs better and reaches a higher topspeed in a lower gear for me, probs cuz if you gear up too much you'll reach a moment where theres not enough torque also mine comes straight out of China 52V 28A (1500W), thats probs a 750W model if you bought it in the US
I did have too many on my previous version of the bike now I have 8 but I tend to only use 6, I agree with you its more convenient and accelerate faster if you have less gears with these mid drive bikes. It does put out 1500w approximately however most of the time its using around 1kw max, I rarely go above power mode 3 in general use as it creates too much torque when I am in low gear. With a hub motor I get control and low speed, consistent torque and also fast continuous acceleration, I also believe the hub motor has a higher top speed though that may be because my front chainring is too small, its either 42 or 46, I can't remember exactly. I believe the BBSHD mid drive ends up with a more efficient bike thats better for long trips though, I was able to get 110+ miles range from it with 2.5kwh of battery.
@@ash0787 i suppose the controller on the hub is more than 1500W, that is quite standard, when it's not a sinewave controller it'll guess the phase/motor current and it usually does not detect what it actually puts in the motor, only what it draws from the battery so it often overshoots by a lot for the power draw, often when it reaches it's rpm limit for a given voltage it'll draw less power and that is when you can/should shift up
The chain sounds like its skipping so you should replace it and the cassette/freewheel. Mid drive motors do have a much better gear range than hub motors but bicycle drivetrains are not meant for tons of power so that's a big handicap.
yes i'm using the same rear cassette the bike came with ( Eddy Merkx AMX-1 ), the teeth go quite small so the top speed should be good, for the front chain ring i'm using the 42T one I think, its neither the largest or smallest you can get, somewhere in the middle I think. I figured out something I don't like about the BBSHD, unless the front cog is spinning faster than the wheel, the bike will continue to freewheel, which means you can pull the throttle 1/4 way or perhaps more, and theres no response, as power isn't being transferred to the wheel, but when it does hit that speed where it starts turning the wheel, the torque is so high that it jumps you forward all of a sudden, this makes it feel unpredictable and its harder to just cruise around at low speed.
I thin your shifting caused you to lose. With the bbshd, should’ve just stayed in a low gear. Even with 42/34, mine will go 28mph. You only need the higher gears for pedaling cadence, not speed with throttle
Apologies. I get them mixed up. I can go 28 km/h with 42/34 gearing. 52v battery stock controller. But, my bike tops out at 52 km/h(32m/ph) and it will do that in the top half of the cassette. Doesn’t matter if I up shift past around 20T or not, my top speed does not increase. It’s because with the BBSHD, top speed is limited by power, not RPM. Since the gears can make up for RPM.
Dude this guy went by my house the other day riding a stealth knock off, 5000w hub drive with a bbshd up front! I need to find out how he is making it work! I really don't want to run 2 controllers and 2 computers.
not sure about that but maybe he just using 2 throttle controls, BBSHD has its controller built into the motor which I think is a good idea. I have seen a stealth powered by a single BBSHD on the channel "High Voltage", some people modify them to run high power a bit like a Sur Ron motor, often they will just stay in one gear.
Why? It a waste of a good BBSHD motor as the direct drive with a good sine wave controller is more then capable, plus actually way more efficient on that heavy of a frame. The QS205 motor is best for the stealth bomber frame. Plus how did he get a BBSHD to work in the front if it is a middrive? It sit on bottom bracket and drives a chain and group set on your bike. So would be impossible to drive front wheel as you have to steer. The 5000w Direct Drive motor is more then enough and eats hills I go 45mph on mode 3 on very steep hills with my 5k watts qs205 motor.
Hub drive get more puncture on rear wheel and not much different to carry or clean. even more difficult to repair and replace parts and have shorter range for same power.
Based on the data you provided you are running in excess of 45% more power 48v - 52v + factoring in what capacity they were charged at during this test, also you are running a 500 - 750w higher wattage motor on top of that fact.. I think your cousin smoked ya in that race mate ;)
that mid drive is really slow .ive got a 1500 hub i run at 26 amps and honestly its fast .holds 40mph easy on flat .hills even quite steep ones with a little effort pedaling it will increase speed and get me up them easy .i havnt had anyone get close around the town .and my bike full suspension so its not light .one thing most dont realise is a so called 1500 w kit at 48v and set up standard using 12 amps is making around a 1000w .mine with 52v at 26 amps makes 1680 w as displayed on my sw900 display .i will be adding a middrive bafang ive got here and another battery just to see if it improves off the line speed and hillclimbing .
top speed on that old blue MTB is around 34 or 35, with the 48v 1500w 'voilamart' kit and aftermarket sabvaton controller, battery limits it to 30 amps otherwise could go faster. The BBSHD bike had a lower top speed, around 30 maybe, but this was a shorter race so maybe didn't reach it. Maybe can improve top speed with a huge front chainring, but I found that 5 to 8 gears on cassette is ideal, 10 was too many to keep shifting through. The bike I use BBSHD on now excels at long range and steep hill climbs, but the hub bikes are often faster and more fun to ride short distance.
@ash0787 definately needsa bigger chainring then as 30 is slow even without a motor .im definatelyinterested in building a hogh powered mid drive bike for off road purposes .center of balance is better too .for comuting i think 72v hub setup on a fatbike with down hill forks rouldnt be a bad setup .once iupgrade my stealth bomber to 150 amp controller ill throw all 5000 watt kiton a fat bike with some 4 pot brakes and a set of boxxer forks .it shouldnt raise too many eyebrows and eat surrons for breakfast
Hub motors will always have faster acceleration. SURRONS use a HUB. They are built for Speed. What do MTB Bike brands use the most? MID Drive. I decided to get a MID drive motor for my Bike because of that range of power I can control.For example HUBS suck at inclines or hill climbing, it'll kill the motor where as a MID drive motor can climb one with ease and speed! It comes down to what you want your Bike motor for. MIDS are fast and are great for climbing. Hubs just flat out speed.
Yeah the constant mid drive is better than hub motors rubbish is annoying. What people fail to realise yes a direct drive does not have gears but the motor is about 2-3 times the stator volume of a mid motor so it has huge peak power output it also has zero transmission losses. A middrive bike with a perfect drivetrain can out perform a direct drive but the minute that drivetrain gets worn and corroded the losses in that drivetrain become huge. There are 3kw and up direct drive hub motors that can make a bike wheelie from the torque they generate.
@@phillyd2018 you have to speed hack the BBSHD to get top speeds. Mines tops out at about 38 mph only because I weigh 225 lbs. Someone lighter would get faster top speeds. I've raced my friend who has a 1000w hub and I've smoked him lol. He can barely make it up steep hills and I crush them. He's not lying about mid drives. You need a programming cable to unlock a BBSHD
With mid drives top speed depends more on gearing of the bike itself. Unlocking mid drives can be as as simple at a 4 digit number code on the display to access the advanced menu. You don't need the cable to unlock a BBSHD top speed. In the advanced menu , just set speed limiter to max and then 52V if you're running 52V , then set wheel size. For extreme advanced tuning use the programming cable.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Mid drive motors are probably more efficient and stronger, and all that. I don’t like to be shifting while riding versus just twist the throttle. So, I have to choose hub motors.
1500watt motor vs 750watt motor .hub motor has twice the watts .on the flat road that might work fine but if you have hills or want to haul some serious weight around that mid drive will smoke that hub motor every time!
Yes exactly. Now you do have gear hub motors that can do decent but when it comes to hills my middrive can climb much better and maintain to speed like if you were flat ground and that on a 15% incline in upper 26 to 27mph without hesitation. No single gear hub or direct drive even at 1500w will do about 18 mph on same hill. Now my 2wd gear hub does good and does 27mph on same hill but it two 1000w gear hub motors with two 25 amp controllers and separate batteries and doing 195 n.m, of torque. It also with the cost of a lot more weight. Where the Bafang Ultra 1500w bike is light maneuvers and handles better and does just as good.
For offroad bbshd for city commuting hub wins in every aspect.
i still didnt my setup work properly. gears get beaten
I'm interested in the geared hub motor on the on the Wired Freedom that does 40mph and that's with fat tires. That is surely the holy grail of hub motors.
If u thing hub motor is superior to a mid drive why all the big names bike manufacturers Trek specialized Giant and other brands in Europe used mid drive motor?
European power limits and weight, especially on emtb's and the mtb people looking at low weight stuff dont want a 10kg hub motor
other than that i live in Europe aswell and the BBSHD smokes any ebike on the market, it even smokes speed pedelecs if i unlock speed (i ride a "legal" xD bike)
but to be fair the Bosch CX peaks at like 700W and the Brose stuff even higher, nevermind the 120Nm TQ motor
but they market it as 250W cuz of European shit rules
I still dont care and ride at 1500W, till it reaches 25kph, but then again uphill i still ride 20+ 😂😂
Nah, the 250 watt limit is average over 30 minutes. There is no instantaneous power limit.
Also, since the conditions under which the maximum continuous motor power must not exceed 250 W aren't specified, most power ratings are entirely made up. The same motor is often sold with different labels.
I have an Onyx CTY2 that tops out at 54 miles an hour, and it uses a direct drive hub motor. I’ve been looking at getting another bike, and I’ve been considering the wired freedom which has a geared hub motor. I’m not so sure the geared motor is the right way to go for me.
Believe with the DD motors to perform just as good as a MD or gear if magnets in motor at 35mm of a 1500 watt and up with 52v battery. I have a gear bike and a non gear , with the 1500watt DD the bike is extremely powerful and the get up speed is fast of accelerating. Even the steep hills my DD is awesome with no pedal assist..
What do you mean by " if magnets in motor at 35mm" ?
@@bladimirkroutska3707 the size of magnets within motor.
If you want a proper comparison of mid vs hub drive, I suggest you skip this video and look for another one. A better comparison is to get a single rider who has never experienced E-bikes to do a time trial of each bike, fully-charged, over the same course with combination of uphills, flats, etc. Hence keeping as much variables the same, unlike this vid….
biggest problem i hear is that you have a humongous amount of gears, i only use a 7spd, mine came with a 48T chainring and i only use gear 2, 4 and 6 cuz 7 is a 11t in my case and it actually performs better and reaches a higher topspeed in a lower gear for me, probs cuz if you gear up too much you'll reach a moment where theres not enough torque
also mine comes straight out of China 52V 28A (1500W), thats probs a 750W model if you bought it in the US
I did have too many on my previous version of the bike now I have 8 but I tend to only use 6, I agree with you its more convenient and accelerate faster if you have less gears with these mid drive bikes. It does put out 1500w approximately however most of the time its using around 1kw max, I rarely go above power mode 3 in general use as it creates too much torque when I am in low gear. With a hub motor I get control and low speed, consistent torque and also fast continuous acceleration, I also believe the hub motor has a higher top speed though that may be because my front chainring is too small, its either 42 or 46, I can't remember exactly. I believe the BBSHD mid drive ends up with a more efficient bike thats better for long trips though, I was able to get 110+ miles range from it with 2.5kwh of battery.
@@ash0787 i suppose the controller on the hub is more than 1500W, that is quite standard, when it's not a sinewave controller it'll guess the phase/motor current and it usually does not detect what it actually puts in the motor, only what it draws from the battery so it often overshoots by a lot
for the power draw, often when it reaches it's rpm limit for a given voltage it'll draw less power and that is when you can/should shift up
The chain sounds like its skipping so you should replace it and the cassette/freewheel. Mid drive motors do have a much better gear range than hub motors but bicycle drivetrains are not meant for tons of power so that's a big handicap.
thats why i have a geared rear befang. dont like mid drives, never have and dont like direct drives either.
btw did you change gears with the mid drive during the race?
yes i'm using the same rear cassette the bike came with ( Eddy Merkx AMX-1 ), the teeth go quite small so the top speed should be good, for the front chain ring i'm using the 42T one I think, its neither the largest or smallest you can get, somewhere in the middle I think. I figured out something I don't like about the BBSHD, unless the front cog is spinning faster than the wheel, the bike will continue to freewheel, which means you can pull the throttle 1/4 way or perhaps more, and theres no response, as power isn't being transferred to the wheel, but when it does hit that speed where it starts turning the wheel, the torque is so high that it jumps you forward all of a sudden, this makes it feel unpredictable and its harder to just cruise around at low speed.
I thin your shifting caused you to lose. With the bbshd, should’ve just stayed in a low gear. Even with 42/34, mine will go 28mph. You only need the higher gears for pedaling cadence, not speed with throttle
@@victorvannatter312 how can 42/34 go 28mph? what voltage battery do you use? and controller?
Apologies. I get them mixed up. I can go 28 km/h with 42/34 gearing. 52v battery stock controller. But, my bike tops out at 52 km/h(32m/ph) and it will do that in the top half of the cassette. Doesn’t matter if I up shift past around 20T or not, my top speed does not increase. It’s because with the BBSHD, top speed is limited by power, not RPM. Since the gears can make up for RPM.
Dude this guy went by my house the other day riding a stealth knock off, 5000w hub drive with a bbshd up front! I need to find out how he is making it work! I really don't want to run 2 controllers and 2 computers.
not sure about that but maybe he just using 2 throttle controls, BBSHD has its controller built into the motor which I think is a good idea. I have seen a stealth powered by a single BBSHD on the channel "High Voltage", some people modify them to run high power a bit like a Sur Ron motor, often they will just stay in one gear.
Why? It a waste of a good BBSHD motor as the direct drive with a good sine wave controller is more then capable, plus actually way more efficient on that heavy of a frame. The QS205 motor is best for the stealth bomber frame.
Plus how did he get a BBSHD to work in the front if it is a middrive? It sit on bottom bracket and drives a chain and group set on your bike. So would be impossible to drive front wheel as you have to steer.
The 5000w Direct Drive motor is more then enough and eats hills I go 45mph on mode 3 on very steep hills with my 5k watts qs205 motor.
Hub drive get more puncture on rear wheel and not much different to carry or clean. even more difficult to repair and replace parts and have shorter range for same power.
2:10 Tornado is passing by 😅
Based on the data you provided you are running in excess of 45% more power 48v - 52v + factoring in what capacity they were charged at during this test, also you are running a 500 - 750w higher wattage motor on top of that fact.. I think your cousin smoked ya in that race mate ;)
¿Why even have a throttle on a bicycle?
that mid drive is really slow .ive got a 1500 hub i run at 26 amps and honestly its fast .holds 40mph easy on flat .hills even quite steep ones with a little effort pedaling it will increase speed and get me up them easy .i havnt had anyone get close around the town .and my bike full suspension so its not light .one thing most dont realise is a so called 1500 w kit at 48v and set up standard using 12 amps is making around a 1000w .mine with 52v at 26 amps makes 1680 w as displayed on my sw900 display .i will be adding a middrive bafang ive got here and another battery just to see if it improves off the line speed and hillclimbing .
top speed on that old blue MTB is around 34 or 35, with the 48v 1500w 'voilamart' kit and aftermarket sabvaton controller, battery limits it to 30 amps otherwise could go faster. The BBSHD bike had a lower top speed, around 30 maybe, but this was a shorter race so maybe didn't reach it. Maybe can improve top speed with a huge front chainring, but I found that 5 to 8 gears on cassette is ideal, 10 was too many to keep shifting through. The bike I use BBSHD on now excels at long range and steep hill climbs, but the hub bikes are often faster and more fun to ride short distance.
@ash0787 definately needsa bigger chainring then as 30 is slow even without a motor .im definatelyinterested in building a hogh powered mid drive bike for off road purposes .center of balance is better too .for comuting i think 72v hub setup on a fatbike with down hill forks rouldnt be a bad setup .once iupgrade my stealth bomber to 150 amp controller ill throw all 5000 watt kiton a fat bike with some 4 pot brakes and a set of boxxer forks .it shouldnt raise too many eyebrows and eat surrons for breakfast
Hub motors will always have faster acceleration. SURRONS use a HUB. They are built for Speed. What do MTB Bike brands use the most? MID Drive. I decided to get a MID drive motor for my Bike because of that range of power I can control.For example HUBS suck at inclines or hill climbing, it'll kill the motor where as a MID drive motor can climb one with ease and speed! It comes down to what you want your Bike motor for. MIDS are fast and are great for climbing. Hubs just flat out speed.
Lol, that's not always the case I've seen some geared Hub Motors destroy mid drives on mountain bike trails in the woods.
That's true, but while your chain is skipping and slipping i'll keep going up.
Yeah the constant mid drive is better than hub motors rubbish is annoying.
What people fail to realise yes a direct drive does not have gears but the motor is about 2-3 times the stator volume of a mid motor so it has huge peak power output it also has zero transmission losses.
A middrive bike with a perfect drivetrain can out perform a direct drive but the minute that drivetrain gets worn and corroded the losses in that drivetrain become huge.
There are 3kw and up direct drive hub motors that can make a bike wheelie from the torque they generate.
Mid drive belt drive internally geared hub master race member here
This guy compared a gas engine to a hub motor. Terrible comparison. Do teslas have gear boxes? Why not?
this guy has a clear bias, he has a store where he sells mid drive kits.
and he clearly lies a lot
@@phillyd2018 you have to speed hack the BBSHD to get top speeds. Mines tops out at about 38 mph only because I weigh 225 lbs. Someone lighter would get faster top speeds. I've raced my friend who has a 1000w hub and I've smoked him lol. He can barely make it up steep hills and I crush them. He's not lying about mid drives. You need a programming cable to unlock a BBSHD
Also a gear shift sensor
With mid drives top speed depends more on gearing of the bike itself.
Unlocking mid drives can be as as simple at a 4 digit number code on the display to access the advanced menu. You don't need the cable to unlock a BBSHD top speed.
In the advanced menu , just set speed limiter to max and then 52V if you're running 52V , then set wheel size.
For extreme advanced tuning use the programming cable.