I found it was always hardest to build mural respect with your men on big ships. Don't know if as a sailor you ever felt the same but things aboard a frigate and a patrol boat things tend to be quite different. Seeing as we were a specialist vessel kitted out for hunting down pirates, coastal insurgents ect we spent a lot longer together than most patrol boats and with a small crew and cramped quarters you get to know everyone pretty quickly. I think occasionally seeing something like combat helps to build up comradery and gives you a chance to prove yourself to your men. Forget trust falls, being vengeful bastards together is great team building. The other upside to that task was we were away from the fleet so I have the much more for filling role of actually commanding my vessel rather than handing down orders half the bloody time.
Yog Sothoth I was on an aircraft carrier my whole time in, so I can't speak to the differences. The problem I saw was that there are a few people who are born to be leaders, a few who are born to be followers, and then the majority of people who aren't terrible at either role but aren't terribly good at either role without some training either, and that last group tended to get promoted too fast, due to friendships with the right people, that they were insufficiently trained in leadership for the role they held. It was particularly noticeable in the e5-e7 and o1-o3 levels, and as you got closer to the top of them, the useless ones became less common but worse behaved. There was this 'I'm an officer! obey me!' or 'I'm a chief! How dare you act like you know more than me!' mentality that afflicted way too many of them. I was lucky though because my job was so critically important and undermanned that as long as I was right, I could say whatever I wanted and just sit through some sensitivity training when I hurt some nub LT or chief's feelings by telling them their orders were going to kill someone and they were stupid or needed a drug test if they thought I was going to obey.
Telling off the officer (noble) does also highlight one thing most militaries (feudal systems) take very seriously - proper respect for the higher-ups. Even in the laid-back mandatory military service I did it was serious business to disagree with your superior in public. Serving as military police I once happened to have information received during the day that my freshly-awakened sarge lacked, but when it became relevant I couldn't tell him before we were alone. The reasoning being that disagreeing with him in public would lessen his authority, and by extension the authority of the whole command structure. We wouldn't have died from it, but a strayed civilian (from a sporting event arranged at the garrison - we got word of it the same day so gratz, arranging officer) could potentially have had loaded guns pointed at him by nervous 20-somethings sent to apprehend him in an area he shouldn't be. So one point for the officer/noble character is that taking opinions is good, but taking them in public is very bad. A war council where people with skills can talk is OK, having some random soldier diss his plan in public shouldn't fly.
Spetulhu, couldn't you in a situation like that request to approach the superior and inform them privately of something you believe they ought to know?
Whenever I have played a character that ends up in the leadership position. The most effective way to role-play it is to be extremely selfless and always take responsibility for the party's actions regardless of how blatently obvious it might not be the case. This makes PCs more receptive to your commands. You don't need to play a goodie two-shoes to lead either, even evil characters can lead this way. "You proved you weren't completely useless, take the enchanted sword in my stead and never say I never did anything for you" *grumble* or if your fellow player gets into a bit of trouble with other NPCs, step in with lines like "Who are you to think you can talk to my minion this way? I will skewer you where you stand" Although obviously evil, it still follows this form of leadership. Your gaining an invisible currency that holds true to both NPCs and PCs... respect. I always enjoy playing these types of characters because when they finally die it is blatantly obvious (at least from my experience) that other players get visibly upset about it. Being able to make a fictional character that inspires real life emotion... That's when you know your role-playing it right :). At least in my oppinion
Thank you for sharing and for advancing the topic! I agree with you completely. And I love your idea about the evil villain being protective of his minions. Right on!
Thank you for your input. I play nobles differently but it's always inspiring to hear others' experience. Last noble I played was a naive sheltered dork who wanted to flee their family's tyrannical rule under the guise of a diplomatic mission into a foreign land.
Two things for players and GMs alike to keep in mind about nobles in a medieval (or quasi-medieval) setting: 1: Most nobles are not useless fops. The noble class is also the warrior class. People (well, male people IRL, but fantasy settings are often more egalitarian) born into a noble family were expected to provide value to the family. They were trained as warriors or entered into the priesthood. In a fantasy setting, a noble family would be well able - and be well incentivised - to have a bookish child trained as a wizard. This idea that nobles are a pack of effete wastrels is simply not correct. The "black sheep" of the family sure (and okay, maybe this is your character), but the majority would have had the "Spiderman Principle" (with great power comes great responsibility) drummed into them from an early age. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 2: Adventurers are not typical people. The mere fact that the noble is gallivanting around the countryside with a motley collection of compatriots suggests that the PC is an atypical representative of their social class. No one's letting the heir to the fucking throne fang around raiding dungeons for fun and profit, after all. No, the noble PC is most likely fairly far down the line of succession. Which is of course why they have the freedom to pursue their own agenda and a reason to want to make their own way in the world. It's far from unbelievable that a PC with a noble background would be willing (or even delighted) to be just "one of the guys". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- What giving a character a noble background is awesome for is a theoretically endless succession of plot hooks to draw the party into fucked-up situations. Whereupon the party either unfucks said situation or fucks it doggystyle. A PC who is a noble has, almost by definition, an extended family. An uncle who has a bandit/orc/dragon/etc. problem, who needs a bit of extra help and who knows just who to call on. A cousin who is being held for ransom. A sibling who is murdered. Of course, if you *want* to play a clueless snob who wanders around offending people, noble's good for that too.
Nick Williams, great points and well-said! I like the idea of the reluctant/deposed/estranged noble: of noble background, but doesn't want it / got "dethroned" as punishment / otherwise ran away from or got run from such an office. It's a very convenient excuse to go adventuring with a motley crew of tomb raiders or whatever.
Very good points! On #1, if you have a character who fills the "medieval lady" social role, keep in mind that your average lady of the castle would have had to know how to do *basically every job* that was performed in the castle to keep it running, even if she didn't do those jobs herself regularly. She'd know how to card/spin/weave/sew/embroider, cook savory and sweet dishes (sugar-work was actually usually exclusively the work of the highest-ranking women in a household), plant husbandry (every household had to have a kitchen garden before the advent of greengrocers), maintain accounts and household stores, negotiate with merchants, hire and manage staff, preparation of medicines and basic first aid...it's a lot of stuff! I once had an elven noblewoman sorceress with the above educational background. While she was...not exactly the most useful in combat, she functioned as the group's negotiator and figurehead when dealing with NPCs (woe unto shopkeepers when the cleric stepped out of the way to let her speak). I think it's also worth noting that depending on your setting, your noble could *very reasonably* cede the de facto leadership role to another player, as my noblewoman did, due to the group needing a set of leadership skills and background knowledge that the noble doesn't have for some reason.
I was in a game like this once. My friend was playing a young noble who had his future position of prestige taken from him. So my character, who was a monk, had a back story where he was on the street, not a copper piece to his name and he was taken in by the nobleman's father. He brought him in, clothed him, gave him an education (my monk had decent Int and Wis), he felt honor bound to serve the family line so when the nobleman (the other PC) was forced to flee, my monk went with him and stood by him as it was for his sacred duty. We were really able to roleplay the hell out of it.
I made an elven wizard of noble origin once. His background is fairly pleasant. He was born and raised into a noble elven family. He took a liking to the mandatory lessons in magic(less so in the mandatory combat lessons but you do not really get a choice in the mather) His family has a tradition where all members of the family must travel abroad to learn about life outside the comfort of home. Believing one must know how people think in order to be able to rule over them. Given that elves live a very long time the risk of losing an heir is vastly less costly(politically not emotionally) to them then to a short lived raced. Add to that they practice the gavelkind inheritance law meaning that every child gets a part of there parents lands it tents to keep competition and backstabbing down. His flaw is that he does not know that calling someone a lesser race is an insult. He sees it as stating fact. Most race's do not have the many natural advantage's of the elves. No need to sleep, No need to shave, Natural gifted with magic, Natural grace, long live spans, etc. This caused more then a bit of friction between the murder hobo's that where his team. The goal was that he would learn humility. That goal got destroyed when the entire team decided they where thieving, murdering psycopaths who take every chance they have to get into pointless fight, bigmouth everyone and acted like they where the center of the universe. And they had the balls to call my charater arrogant.
Also I approve of the unraveling of the dogs. Who are they, what do they want and who do they really serve? Perhaps how to be a great Dog video Easter egg? ;D
There were a few calls for them to be in a video, sadly they've now moved in with their new owners on a farm in the country so the videos will now be very, very, silent of the canine bark :(
Myself, and some of my players could use this advice. Too often they play nobility or ranking officers and just play them as normal. I would love to see the dynamic of the noble stepping in for the group play out at the table.
I play with a Noble with a hero problem, He usually disregard the parties input (because they're commoners) and kicks in the doors, he's our sorcerer. This sound like the worst person to play with ever, but instead it is always so God damn funny. We love him.
5:15 "Congratulate them. give them a rousing speech before they go off and attempt the task, and give them *an arousing* speech afterwords." uhhhh, what type of game are you running?
I just started playing a noble Tiefling warlock in D&D 5e. This video, together with the "pc arc" one, is giving me so many good ideas for him. At the moment he's not very noble, he's more of a spoiled brat who wants (*wink wink) to live the good life far away from his bullying family, but what he really needs (*wink wink wink) is to overcome his demons, stop his childish manners and become the ruler he's supposed to be... Thank you very much for your astonishing work, you are awesome!!!
wouldnt a tiefling born in a noble family be a source of great shame for that family? in dark elf society or somewhere infernalism and having sex with demons isnt frowned upon sure but in most human kingdoms it would be a scandal. maybe you can work that in your running away from home story
He IS a great source of shame, he has been exiled from his family estate but his father is still paying for his home and a couple of his vices, because his mother's last wish was that the family shouldn't abandon him (his father doesn't know that his wife had sex with a demon, he think it's a curse or something)
My character's a part of the military, but more in the way that a military engineer is a part of the military. Different duties, different responsibilities. In my character, my character's trained for escort duty and riot suppression, but he's part of "the coroners". Today we imagine coroners as people who determine the cause of death in a criminal case, but historically, coroners override sheriffs to protect the financial interests of the crown (hence the name) in a criminal case. That means that he's from a different division, though works so closely with the rest of the city guard, that he might as well be part of their hierarchy. Only in some circumstances will he be called to one side and have to act on the interests of a different party. Which is frequently how he becomes an adventurer; somebody contacts him with a mission from the crown for him to execute. This command usually comes to him by way of an officer from the city guard, but sometimes, the officer grits their teeth and says, "apparently, it's above my paygrade, coroner" and shoves a sealed letter into my chest and then marches off. So. My tip of the day; if you want your character to be a part of the city guard that falls within a hierachy under normal circumstances, but can receive commands from a different part of the hierarchy, refer to yourself as "coroner".
This is wonderfully timed. I recently started playing a commanding officer in a military type of campaign. There are some great tips here that I will be using. In particular on resolving disputes.
This and some of your other Videos are helping me a lot. I'm just creating a Shadowrun Character who went to a military academy and starting with the group as a detective agency and together with the first questions for character creation are helping me big time, working the character out to be "a character" instead of being a sheet of paper with numbers.
I never judge anynoe by their class. Rogues, mages, warriors. They all work well as meathshield while I am covering at back. Hooray for non-combatant characters!
This is certainly an interesting topic. It's one I've been seeing a good deal lately. My group is playing a Scifi game and having a captain is something not only suiting to the setting, but very important to the game itself as due to the nature of the game a leader is very necessary. I will say that in this video you talked mainly about being the group leader more so than being simply someone of nobility. Which is fine, I find that a more interesting topic. However, I will say that being from noble birth doesn't immediately put you in charge in many games. For example, in many games I have played, the noble is generally from a another place or simply not in a position to be the one in command. This way you find that the player playing the noble doesn't have to be someone people have to listen too or isn't someone that tries too hard to control a situation. With that said, if we are talking about a captain or more direct leader role, I agree with many of your points as they all add up to being someone other players enjoy having as the leader. In particular, there is the putting the group first and the giving positive reinforcement to others. Too rarely, in general, do we find PCs congratulating each other or encouraging each other, and if you are too lead, a kind word goes a long way. "Also remember that in any man's dark hour, a pat on the back and an earnest handclasp may work a small miracle" Finally, I think your most important point is your last. I have noticed it takes a very specific person to play that role. Generally, they need to be differential and yet have enough assertiveness to take a strong stance. I also find they are best when playing a likable character (of course, that's probably true for everything), leaders tend to do a lot of interacting and you want the character that interacts a lot to be pleasant to observe. However, I think you missed a very important quality that needs to be in the player, or the player needs to develop. In my experience, the captain or leader type fellow needs to be someone who is ready to take responsibility. They need to be the one where everyone looks at them and says, "Ok but if this screws up, it's your fault" and they agree to it. Not every player wants to be the one who has to answer to the king. Not every player wants to make the tough call. Not every player wants to have all eyes on them when the moment of truth arrives. That isn't to say that the other players will or should resent the leader for a group failing, but it does mean that the leader has inherently more responsibility and needs to be ready to take the negative aspects of that job. I have seen many a player put in a panic when faced with a tough call and rolled the dice to decide. I have seen many a player slow down proceedings as they ask NPCs, gods, and anyone in the room what to do rather than make the call that needs to be made. However, in my experience, when the crew plays Russian roulette the player who will most likely take to the role of leadership will be the one who wants to pull the trigger. This final point is also why having a leader can be very fun as a player. Sure, the positive reinforcement is great, and having a structure in place can make you feel like you are part of something bigger, but it is the lifting of responsibility that can be really liberating. While Aragorn is off dealing with all the crazy councils and politics of men, Legolas and Gimli can go mess around at the tavern and spend half the session convincing the barmaids which of them is more awesome. With someone they trust in charge other players tend to feel more laid back and comfy. They have less to worry over and can focus more on just playing their character.
Excellent points and yes Responsibility and the burden is something I never mentioned directly. I'm glad you raised them here. Your point about nobility in a different land is correct though it avoids the point that this video was trying to address. Where the noble has power, has influence, how do you as a player handle that. Today for example if you were suddenly in an ship crash and stranded on an island say with the Queen of Sweden, we're all treat one another with respect but with a certain equality. Fifty years ago, she'd be seen as the single most important individual on the island and treated very differently. So it was addressing how to make it work without being an irritation.
Fair enough, I just might have titled it different. The points made were all very good. Just a quibble that has little to do with the quality of the info provided. Like I said, it's good stuff! I will send some of my players this way.
It makes sens to me to prioritise videos based on shown interest as you have done. It's either that or you deciding on what is the most interesting to make. Don't think I feel snubed or anything. There will be plenty of oportunity to use what you put in this video both for me and others.
I just started a campaign last night and I'm the noble and paladin. The other players are support classes so the praise aspect is definitely going to come into play.
could you please make a video about characters with criminal background? I'm playing a former criminal, and I'm sure you have great tips and ideas to share :)
Actually, some great tips on how to be a REAL leader of a team in this. As opposed to how your typical wage-world "manager" operates in real-life office floor situations. Well done!
well I didn't notice it which is really good it does its job and it does it good so I don't need to think about I'm focused on the speaker an listening to what he says. If one suggestion make it look a little more medieval/fantasy instead of blue maybe parchment-y but I'm defintly like the content your producing so keep it up!
So, I played a changling rogue who I roleplayed as very promiscuous and threw in a little bit of tasteful gay stereotyping in for good measure which lead to a character who would always refer to people as doll or darling in a very 1950's manner, and he seemingly had a smarmy sly grin on his face. By no means was the character offensive in fact out of game everyone loved my roleplaying of this character as he had a certain degree of villainous panache to him. A good example of what his character is like is Double Trouble from the Netflix version of She Ra.
Also, as a changling with the actor feat he would change his behavior to suit a particular situation or individual. Taking a more respectful and courtly attitude when speaking to a noble, or taking a more pious approach when speaking to a priest.
Well I need a change of pants The dogs just super scared me I was like how did dogs get into my house but I've just made a noble I was kinda wondering about stuff like this
So, in my games Nobles tend to all deal with things differently for example some Nobles choose to go out and converse with the common people while others prefer to sit in their high castles with only the company of other Nobles.
I know this one's a year old, but perhaps someone can offer input: I am DMing a D&D campaign, and the PC party has two "deposed nobles" - just by coincidence too: the characters were created independently without knowing about the other's background. One ran away from the kingdom because the noble office was too tedious, pretentious, corrupt, and most importantly, boring. That character would rather be a womanizing bard, wooing ladies from one town to the next. The other did something to offend his fellow nobles and higher-ups and was forced to flee his home kingdom for his life. I decided as GM to add to the coincidence that the two ex-nobles recognized each other from being from neighboring kingdoms. But they are otherwise trying to keep their backgrounds secret from other PCs and NPCs. This was all fine, but now one of the players wants to take advantage of the noble background by calling for aid from his home kingdom. As this is the one who offended his peers and was forced to flee, I don't see how I can convincingly work such a plan into the story. I do want to involve more of these PC's backgrounds into the campaign, but I don't know how to do it effectively, creatively, and maintain game balance and immersion. Any suggestions?
...What if you are a middle-man? As in, you don't actual give the orders, but you have to make sure everyone follows them to the letter? Then I can't just say "okay, you've made a good point" without getting executed for it...
Something my character does is "bribe" other characters, through promisses he is very much intending to keep. Money is temporary and chances are that the party will find more than they have on themselves. So the way he sees it, he's offering his services to a rebellious natured companion, in exchange for their comradery. It's working so far. A favor is owed and I have a sneaking suspicion it's related, in some way, to my own character's motives for adventuring to begin with.
The scenario you are painting has the party being in a military setting. What if the party is not? In the background section of 5e it has Soldier as an option and rank as a possibility it also has Noble as an option so that it is more then possible that you have either in your party (or both, why not, lets have a conflict right of shan't we)? What then?
The "noble" D&D background doesn't necessarily correspond to a party leader role. It is possible for a character with lower social status to have a leadership role, with the noble character acting as the "face" for interactions with other nobles. Likewise, a character could be the younger son of a baron, but not care too much for social status.
Remember also that the key here is you're playing the 'Ranking' character by agreement with your fellow players first. No one needs to be a noble or a ranking officer to do this - if someone wants to role-play the leader of the group, they must make sure to ask their fellow players first that they'd agree to it.
Yet again you win for now my willy foe but we will meet again hahahahaha as he goes flying off held by a big Turkey. - Hey I'm a turkey they can't fly! Then he falls into an active volcano! Yes, you are right you need to ask the other players.
Make dad a good one mate of the day in the game he was the graph X captain who normally drink in his hand but if you were on his team or in this case in our party he would lay down his life to protect you hate use all his military experience to keep you alive if you were in his party you’ll be here doesn’t really give a shit about you but if you want these people he would try walking on water to help you
Well just be a kind-hearted, har working woman or man. You respect the finer things in life but like earning them through sweat and charm. You don't lie or cheat but be honest, even if it is the bad option. You may not always be the sharpest tool, but your the most reliable and trusted one.
As a new DM, one of my players is playing the Nobel to and wants to have his 3 servants...im definitely going to talk with him on determining if he wants to be a samurai family Nobel or a daimyo family Nobel as that's a great idea that can have political ramifications and random action points if he flaunts it to much... But I honestly have no idea how to work with his servants as the campaign is very much a monster/Demon hunting campaign set in the age of warring states during a very uneasy truce. I just don't have enough experience to know how to handle his servants Do you have anu pointers for that?
hello good brother, I bumped into yur channel n enjoyed your vid. I just subbed. in my published space opera universe, the aristocracy is around. some serve in the military, some are of high noble houses, some in lower noble houses. this is true fer the human led galactic empire.space elves carve out kingdoms n empires across the local galaxies, centaurs play steadfast armoured warriors in service of the human empire. you have an awesome channel. I look forward to see more. i'm on fb. please send me a message there anytime. :)
I’m currently playing a Cavalier who was a scout sergeant in a war with wild orcs. He’s old now, and adventuring to gather enough money to free his noble nephew, a young knight, whose mother was my character’s only sister among ten brothers. Since the knight lad’s mother and father married out of love (she a commoner, he a decent lord) and all his ten uncles are famous war heroes (at least where he comes from), young Sir Randal Hinden is going to be a fun character. I intend to kill off my Cavalier sergeant once he’s sufficiently bonded with his new talking horse, then play as Randal instead. But in the meantime, I hope next session to roleplay as *both* characters when Sergeant Igist Vin goes aboard the battleship where Randal is imprisoned. Also, Randal has a bunch of older knightly brothers. And Uncle Igist was one of the ten Vin boys, with Igist being the only one who has no living children. So... when the city of Mistmoore eventually comes under siege, I plan on bringing *aaallll* the living men and fighting women of the family *and all of their vassals and allies* to the city’s aid. Even if they arrive too late. Randal’s going to be fun to play. Quite a wide-eyed idealist and romantic. Now traumatized by his enslavement and hoping to redeem himself so he can actually call on his family. With a dash of stupid bravery and ten lifetimes worth of war stories riding around in his head. Ahhh, good times.
Never met a noble that acts like yours. In all the campaigns I've played In, all nobles are guest givers or arrogant infidelic pieces of crap that should be replaced with someone better
Some of the officers and non-coms I worked for in the Navy would have benefited from this video.
Hahahaha. Sadly yes I believe this not an uncommon problem when 'power' exists.
I found it was always hardest to build mural respect with your men on big ships. Don't know if as a sailor you ever felt the same but things aboard a frigate and a patrol boat things tend to be quite different. Seeing as we were a specialist vessel kitted out for hunting down pirates, coastal insurgents ect we spent a lot longer together than most patrol boats and with a small crew and cramped quarters you get to know everyone pretty quickly. I think occasionally seeing something like combat helps to build up comradery and gives you a chance to prove yourself to your men. Forget trust falls, being vengeful bastards together is great team building. The other upside to that task was we were away from the fleet so I have the much more for filling role of actually commanding my vessel rather than handing down orders half the bloody time.
Yog Sothoth I was on an aircraft carrier my whole time in, so I can't speak to the differences. The problem I saw was that there are a few people who are born to be leaders, a few who are born to be followers, and then the majority of people who aren't terrible at either role but aren't terribly good at either role without some training either, and that last group tended to get promoted too fast, due to friendships with the right people, that they were insufficiently trained in leadership for the role they held. It was particularly noticeable in the e5-e7 and o1-o3 levels, and as you got closer to the top of them, the useless ones became less common but worse behaved. There was this 'I'm an officer! obey me!' or 'I'm a chief! How dare you act like you know more than me!' mentality that afflicted way too many of them. I was lucky though because my job was so critically important and undermanned that as long as I was right, I could say whatever I wanted and just sit through some sensitivity training when I hurt some nub LT or chief's feelings by telling them their orders were going to kill someone and they were stupid or needed a drug test if they thought I was going to obey.
Telling off the officer (noble) does also highlight one thing most militaries (feudal systems) take very seriously - proper respect for the higher-ups. Even in the laid-back mandatory military service I did it was serious business to disagree with your superior in public.
Serving as military police I once happened to have information received during the day that my freshly-awakened sarge lacked, but when it became relevant I couldn't tell him before we were alone. The reasoning being that disagreeing with him in public would lessen his authority, and by extension the authority of the whole command structure. We wouldn't have died from it, but a strayed civilian (from a sporting event arranged at the garrison - we got word of it the same day so gratz, arranging officer) could potentially have had loaded guns pointed at him by nervous 20-somethings sent to apprehend him in an area he shouldn't be.
So one point for the officer/noble character is that taking opinions is good, but taking them in public is very bad. A war council where people with skills can talk is OK, having some random soldier diss his plan in public shouldn't fly.
Spetulhu, couldn't you in a situation like that request to approach the superior and inform them privately of something you believe they ought to know?
Whenever I have played a character that ends up in the leadership position. The most effective way to role-play it is to be extremely selfless and always take responsibility for the party's actions regardless of how blatently obvious it might not be the case. This makes PCs more receptive to your commands.
You don't need to play a goodie two-shoes to lead either, even evil characters can lead this way. "You proved you weren't completely useless, take the enchanted sword in my stead and never say I never did anything for you" *grumble* or if your fellow player gets into a bit of trouble with other NPCs, step in with lines like "Who are you to think you can talk to my minion this way? I will skewer you where you stand" Although obviously evil, it still follows this form of leadership. Your gaining an invisible currency that holds true to both NPCs and PCs... respect.
I always enjoy playing these types of characters because when they finally die it is blatantly obvious (at least from my experience) that other players get visibly upset about it. Being able to make a fictional character that inspires real life emotion... That's when you know your role-playing it right :). At least in my oppinion
Thank you for sharing and for advancing the topic! I agree with you completely. And I love your idea about the evil villain being protective of his minions. Right on!
Thank you for your input. I play nobles differently but it's always inspiring to hear others' experience. Last noble I played was a naive sheltered dork who wanted to flee their family's tyrannical rule under the guise of a diplomatic mission into a foreign land.
Two things for players and GMs alike to keep in mind about nobles in a medieval (or quasi-medieval) setting:
1: Most nobles are not useless fops.
The noble class is also the warrior class. People (well, male people IRL, but fantasy settings are often more egalitarian) born into a noble family were expected to provide value to the family. They were trained as warriors or entered into the priesthood. In a fantasy setting, a noble family would be well able - and be well incentivised - to have a bookish child trained as a wizard. This idea that nobles are a pack of effete wastrels is simply not correct. The "black sheep" of the family sure (and okay, maybe this is your character), but the majority would have had the "Spiderman Principle" (with great power comes great responsibility) drummed into them from an early age.
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2: Adventurers are not typical people.
The mere fact that the noble is gallivanting around the countryside with a motley collection of compatriots suggests that the PC is an atypical representative of their social class. No one's letting the heir to the fucking throne fang around raiding dungeons for fun and profit, after all. No, the noble PC is most likely fairly far down the line of succession. Which is of course why they have the freedom to pursue their own agenda and a reason to want to make their own way in the world. It's far from unbelievable that a PC with a noble background would be willing (or even delighted) to be just "one of the guys".
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What giving a character a noble background is awesome for is a theoretically endless succession of plot hooks to draw the party into fucked-up situations. Whereupon the party either unfucks said situation or fucks it doggystyle. A PC who is a noble has, almost by definition, an extended family. An uncle who has a bandit/orc/dragon/etc. problem, who needs a bit of extra help and who knows just who to call on. A cousin who is being held for ransom. A sibling who is murdered.
Of course, if you *want* to play a clueless snob who wanders around offending people, noble's good for that too.
Nick Williams, great points and well-said!
I like the idea of the reluctant/deposed/estranged noble: of noble background, but doesn't want it / got "dethroned" as punishment / otherwise ran away from or got run from such an office. It's a very convenient excuse to go adventuring with a motley crew of tomb raiders or whatever.
Nobles only became useless after the Renaissance.
Very good points! On #1, if you have a character who fills the "medieval lady" social role, keep in mind that your average lady of the castle would have had to know how to do *basically every job* that was performed in the castle to keep it running, even if she didn't do those jobs herself regularly. She'd know how to card/spin/weave/sew/embroider, cook savory and sweet dishes (sugar-work was actually usually exclusively the work of the highest-ranking women in a household), plant husbandry (every household had to have a kitchen garden before the advent of greengrocers), maintain accounts and household stores, negotiate with merchants, hire and manage staff, preparation of medicines and basic first aid...it's a lot of stuff!
I once had an elven noblewoman sorceress with the above educational background. While she was...not exactly the most useful in combat, she functioned as the group's negotiator and figurehead when dealing with NPCs (woe unto shopkeepers when the cleric stepped out of the way to let her speak). I think it's also worth noting that depending on your setting, your noble could *very reasonably* cede the de facto leadership role to another player, as my noblewoman did, due to the group needing a set of leadership skills and background knowledge that the noble doesn't have for some reason.
A Noble can also have some family curse / a ghost/monster haunting them. That too makes for good hooks.
When you mentioned dogs barking in the background, my own began barking. I felt the coincidence was too perfect to let go unsaid.
I was in a game like this once. My friend was playing a young noble who had his future position of prestige taken from him. So my character, who was a monk, had a back story where he was on the street, not a copper piece to his name and he was taken in by the nobleman's father. He brought him in, clothed him, gave him an education (my monk had decent Int and Wis), he felt honor bound to serve the family line so when the nobleman (the other PC) was forced to flee, my monk went with him and stood by him as it was for his sacred duty. We were really able to roleplay the hell out of it.
I made an elven wizard of noble origin once.
His background is fairly pleasant.
He was born and raised into a noble elven family.
He took a liking to the mandatory lessons in magic(less so in the mandatory combat lessons but you do not really get a choice in the mather)
His family has a tradition where all members of the family must travel abroad to learn about life outside the comfort of home.
Believing one must know how people think in order to be able to rule over them.
Given that elves live a very long time the risk of losing an heir is vastly less costly(politically not emotionally) to them then to a short lived raced.
Add to that they practice the gavelkind inheritance law meaning that every child gets a part of there parents lands it tents to keep competition and backstabbing down.
His flaw is that he does not know that calling someone a lesser race is an insult.
He sees it as stating fact.
Most race's do not have the many natural advantage's of the elves.
No need to sleep, No need to shave, Natural gifted with magic, Natural grace, long live spans, etc.
This caused more then a bit of friction between the murder hobo's that where his team.
The goal was that he would learn humility.
That goal got destroyed when the entire team decided they where thieving, murdering psycopaths who take every chance they have to get into pointless fight, bigmouth everyone and acted like they where the center of the universe.
And they had the balls to call my charater arrogant.
Also I approve of the unraveling of the dogs. Who are they, what do they want and who do they really serve? Perhaps how to be a great Dog video Easter egg? ;D
There were a few calls for them to be in a video, sadly they've now moved in with their new owners on a farm in the country so the videos will now be very, very, silent of the canine bark :(
As someone who's character stumbled into nobility recently, I'm very grateful for this video. XD
I've always wanted to see a video devoted to tinker classes, they aren't played much in my opinion and they open up a whole new mechanic to the game
Donutman77 ___ , agreed! I love Tinkers.
Myself, and some of my players could use this advice. Too often they play nobility or ranking officers and just play them as normal. I would love to see the dynamic of the noble stepping in for the group play out at the table.
Sometimes a little - hey guys watch this video - before the session starts goes a long way!
I need to see these dogs to see if they are cute enough to get away with that.
Hahahahaha. Picture the Gremlins from the movie Gremlins 2.... I think they also feature at the end of episode 3 of Bacon Interviews ;)
Though technically an NPC, the Rupert from the "All Guardsmen Party" was an AMAZING high ranking general.
I play with a Noble with a hero problem, He usually disregard the parties input (because they're commoners) and kicks in the doors, he's our sorcerer. This sound like the worst person to play with ever, but instead it is always so God damn funny. We love him.
5:15 "Congratulate them. give them a rousing speech before they go off and attempt the task, and give them *an arousing* speech afterwords."
uhhhh, what type of game are you running?
Army of Simps
Never hurts to have an incubus as your leader :D
You have a perfect DM voice! It makes me want to focus more on what you are saying.
I just started playing a noble Tiefling warlock in D&D 5e. This video, together with the "pc arc" one, is giving me so many good ideas for him. At the moment he's not very noble, he's more of a spoiled brat who wants (*wink wink) to live the good life far away from his bullying family, but what he really needs (*wink wink wink) is to overcome his demons, stop his childish manners and become the ruler he's supposed to be...
Thank you very much for your astonishing work, you are awesome!!!
wouldnt a tiefling born in a noble family be a source of great shame for that family? in dark elf society or somewhere infernalism and having sex with demons isnt frowned upon sure but in most human kingdoms it would be a scandal. maybe you can work that in your running away from home story
He IS a great source of shame, he has been exiled from his family estate but his father is still paying for his home and a couple of his vices, because his mother's last wish was that the family shouldn't abandon him (his father doesn't know that his wife had sex with a demon, he think it's a curse or something)
My character's a part of the military, but more in the way that a military engineer is a part of the military. Different duties, different responsibilities.
In my character, my character's trained for escort duty and riot suppression, but he's part of "the coroners". Today we imagine coroners as people who determine the cause of death in a criminal case, but historically, coroners override sheriffs to protect the financial interests of the crown (hence the name) in a criminal case.
That means that he's from a different division, though works so closely with the rest of the city guard, that he might as well be part of their hierarchy. Only in some circumstances will he be called to one side and have to act on the interests of a different party. Which is frequently how he becomes an adventurer; somebody contacts him with a mission from the crown for him to execute. This command usually comes to him by way of an officer from the city guard, but sometimes, the officer grits their teeth and says, "apparently, it's above my paygrade, coroner" and shoves a sealed letter into my chest and then marches off.
So. My tip of the day; if you want your character to be a part of the city guard that falls within a hierachy under normal circumstances, but can receive commands from a different part of the hierarchy, refer to yourself as "coroner".
That's some cool advice! Thank you Lord Coroner.
This is wonderfully timed. I recently started playing a commanding officer in a military type of campaign. There are some great tips here that I will be using. In particular on resolving disputes.
That's awesome to hear! I hope they help.
This and some of your other Videos are helping me a lot. I'm just creating a Shadowrun Character who went to a military academy and starting with the group as a detective agency and together with the first questions for character creation are helping me big time, working the character out to be "a character" instead of being a sheet of paper with numbers.
I never judge anynoe by their class. Rogues, mages, warriors. They all work well as meathshield while I am covering at back. Hooray for non-combatant characters!
What great timing, I'm actually about to play a noble character in an upcoming game, and this definitely helped out a good bit.
Glad to hear it! Let us know how it goes!
This is certainly an interesting topic. It's one I've been seeing a good deal lately. My group is playing a Scifi game and having a captain is something not only suiting to the setting, but very important to the game itself as due to the nature of the game a leader is very necessary.
I will say that in this video you talked mainly about being the group leader more so than being simply someone of nobility. Which is fine, I find that a more interesting topic. However, I will say that being from noble birth doesn't immediately put you in charge in many games. For example, in many games I have played, the noble is generally from a another place or simply not in a position to be the one in command. This way you find that the player playing the noble doesn't have to be someone people have to listen too or isn't someone that tries too hard to control a situation.
With that said, if we are talking about a captain or more direct leader role, I agree with many of your points as they all add up to being someone other players enjoy having as the leader. In particular, there is the putting the group first and the giving positive reinforcement to others. Too rarely, in general, do we find PCs congratulating each other or encouraging each other, and if you are too lead, a kind word goes a long way. "Also remember that in any man's dark hour, a pat on the back and an earnest handclasp may work a small miracle"
Finally, I think your most important point is your last. I have noticed it takes a very specific person to play that role. Generally, they need to be differential and yet have enough assertiveness to take a strong stance. I also find they are best when playing a likable character (of course, that's probably true for everything), leaders tend to do a lot of interacting and you want the character that interacts a lot to be pleasant to observe. However, I think you missed a very important quality that needs to be in the player, or the player needs to develop. In my experience, the captain or leader type fellow needs to be someone who is ready to take responsibility. They need to be the one where everyone looks at them and says, "Ok but if this screws up, it's your fault" and they agree to it. Not every player wants to be the one who has to answer to the king. Not every player wants to make the tough call. Not every player wants to have all eyes on them when the moment of truth arrives. That isn't to say that the other players will or should resent the leader for a group failing, but it does mean that the leader has inherently more responsibility and needs to be ready to take the negative aspects of that job. I have seen many a player put in a panic when faced with a tough call and rolled the dice to decide. I have seen many a player slow down proceedings as they ask NPCs, gods, and anyone in the room what to do rather than make the call that needs to be made. However, in my experience, when the crew plays Russian roulette the player who will most likely take to the role of leadership will be the one who wants to pull the trigger.
This final point is also why having a leader can be very fun as a player. Sure, the positive reinforcement is great, and having a structure in place can make you feel like you are part of something bigger, but it is the lifting of responsibility that can be really liberating. While Aragorn is off dealing with all the crazy councils and politics of men, Legolas and Gimli can go mess around at the tavern and spend half the session convincing the barmaids which of them is more awesome. With someone they trust in charge other players tend to feel more laid back and comfy. They have less to worry over and can focus more on just playing their character.
Excellent points and yes Responsibility and the burden is something I never mentioned directly. I'm glad you raised them here. Your point about nobility in a different land is correct though it avoids the point that this video was trying to address. Where the noble has power, has influence, how do you as a player handle that. Today for example if you were suddenly in an ship crash and stranded on an island say with the Queen of Sweden, we're all treat one another with respect but with a certain equality. Fifty years ago, she'd be seen as the single most important individual on the island and treated very differently. So it was addressing how to make it work without being an irritation.
Fair enough, I just might have titled it different. The points made were all very good. Just a quibble that has little to do with the quality of the info provided. Like I said, it's good stuff! I will send some of my players this way.
Aha! Well worth the wait! Excellent video. My Noble might be retired but I've taken notes for next time I play a person of social or military rank.
Well I hope it helps for that new character. I really need a better system for keeping track of questions... :(
It makes sens to me to prioritise videos based on shown interest as you have done. It's either that or you deciding on what is the most interesting to make. Don't think I feel snubed or anything. There will be plenty of oportunity to use what you put in this video both for me and others.
I just started a campaign last night and I'm the noble and paladin. The other players are support classes so the praise aspect is definitely going to come into play.
could you please make a video about characters with criminal background? I'm playing a former criminal, and I'm sure you have great tips and ideas to share :)
Great question! I'll add it to the list!
Actually, some great tips on how to be a REAL leader of a team in this. As opposed to how your typical wage-world "manager" operates in real-life office floor situations. Well done!
This has helped a lot, thank you! I'm making a noble NPC for my players so this is great inspiration for DMs too
Thanks, Guy. Nice work. On a side note, I would like to welcome How to be a Great Player to 2017. I look forward to many new videos in the future.
Glad to receive your comments and here is 2017! It's going to be one hell of a year!
I agree. Good luck to everyone on future endeavors.
Thank you dear friend! I have a knightly paladin Tortle~ this is most helpful!
good job guys, heckin good of a job.
Gratitude. What did you think of the 'newish' layout?
well I didn't notice it which is really good it does its job and it does it good so I don't need to think about I'm focused on the speaker an listening to what he says. If one suggestion make it look a little more medieval/fantasy instead of blue maybe parchment-y but I'm defintly like the content your producing so keep it up!
Nice!
Thanks.
So, I played a changling rogue who I roleplayed as very promiscuous and threw in a little bit of tasteful gay stereotyping in for good measure which lead to a character who would always refer to people as doll or darling in a very 1950's manner, and he seemingly had a smarmy sly grin on his face. By no means was the character offensive in fact out of game everyone loved my roleplaying of this character as he had a certain degree of villainous panache to him. A good example of what his character is like is Double Trouble from the Netflix version of She Ra.
Also, as a changling with the actor feat he would change his behavior to suit a particular situation or individual. Taking a more respectful and courtly attitude when speaking to a noble, or taking a more pious approach when speaking to a priest.
Yes yes, how to be a great playa. I catch ya drift
I hope there is a drift to catch :)
Well I need a change of pants The dogs just super scared me I was like how did dogs get into my house but I've just made a noble I was kinda wondering about stuff like this
Glad it helped!
When you did your Officer impression it sounded a little like David Attenborough.
Hahahaha. Awesome thank you!
I remember when this chanel was called. "In the cave". #HiPsTeR
Hipster of note bro... or just old man :p
So, in my games Nobles tend to all deal with things differently for example some Nobles choose to go out and converse with the common people while others prefer to sit in their high castles with only the company of other Nobles.
I know this one's a year old, but perhaps someone can offer input:
I am DMing a D&D campaign, and the PC party has two "deposed nobles" - just by coincidence too: the characters were created independently without knowing about the other's background.
One ran away from the kingdom because the noble office was too tedious, pretentious, corrupt, and most importantly, boring. That character would rather be a womanizing bard, wooing ladies from one town to the next.
The other did something to offend his fellow nobles and higher-ups and was forced to flee his home kingdom for his life.
I decided as GM to add to the coincidence that the two ex-nobles recognized each other from being from neighboring kingdoms. But they are otherwise trying to keep their backgrounds secret from other PCs and NPCs.
This was all fine, but now one of the players wants to take advantage of the noble background by calling for aid from his home kingdom. As this is the one who offended his peers and was forced to flee, I don't see how I can convincingly work such a plan into the story.
I do want to involve more of these PC's backgrounds into the campaign, but I don't know how to do it effectively, creatively, and maintain game balance and immersion.
Any suggestions?
...What if you are a middle-man? As in, you don't actual give the orders, but you have to make sure everyone follows them to the letter? Then I can't just say "okay, you've made a good point" without getting executed for it...
Something my character does is "bribe" other characters, through promisses he is very much intending to keep. Money is temporary and chances are that the party will find more than they have on themselves. So the way he sees it, he's offering his services to a rebellious natured companion, in exchange for their comradery. It's working so far. A favor is owed and I have a sneaking suspicion it's related, in some way, to my own character's motives for adventuring to begin with.
Noble Lady might be easier to take if you did not have the beard!
Have you seen some noble ladies recently? :p
... No...as he falls apart in defeat ... You win!
Perhaps a noble female dwarf.
I mean... It may be a dwarven noble woman
What is the name of the song playing at the end credits?
The scenario you are painting has the party being in a military setting. What if the party is not? In the background section of 5e it has Soldier as an option and rank as a possibility it also has Noble as an option so that it is more then possible that you have either in your party (or both, why not, lets have a conflict right of shan't we)? What then?
The "noble" D&D background doesn't necessarily correspond to a party leader role. It is possible for a character with lower social status to have a leadership role, with the noble character acting as the "face" for interactions with other nobles. Likewise, a character could be the younger son of a baron, but not care too much for social status.
Remember also that the key here is you're playing the 'Ranking' character by agreement with your fellow players first. No one needs to be a noble or a ranking officer to do this - if someone wants to role-play the leader of the group, they must make sure to ask their fellow players first that they'd agree to it.
Yet again you win for now my willy foe but we will meet again hahahahaha as he goes flying off held by a big Turkey. - Hey I'm a turkey they can't fly! Then he falls into an active volcano! Yes, you are right you need to ask the other players.
I decided to play a Noble
sadly the rest of the party decided to play renegades
Make dad a good one mate of the day in the game he was the graph X captain who normally drink in his hand but if you were on his team or in this case in our party he would lay down his life to protect you hate use all his military experience to keep you alive if you were in his party you’ll be here doesn’t really give a shit about you but if you want these people he would try walking on water to help you
hmm, any tips for coming at it from the other end? how might one play a farmer's daughter or son?
Well just be a kind-hearted, har working woman or man. You respect the finer things in life but like earning them through sweat and charm. You don't lie or cheat but be honest, even if it is the bad option. You may not always be the sharpest tool, but your the most reliable and trusted one.
As a new DM, one of my players is playing the Nobel to and wants to have his 3 servants...im definitely going to talk with him on determining if he wants to be a samurai family Nobel or a daimyo family Nobel as that's a great idea that can have political ramifications and random action points if he flaunts it to much... But I honestly have no idea how to work with his servants as the campaign is very much a monster/Demon hunting campaign set in the age of warring states during a very uneasy truce. I just don't have enough experience to know how to handle his servants
Do you have anu pointers for that?
hello good brother, I bumped into yur channel n enjoyed your vid. I just subbed. in my published space opera universe, the aristocracy is around. some serve in the military, some are of high noble houses, some in lower noble houses. this is true fer the human led galactic empire.space elves carve out kingdoms n empires across the local galaxies, centaurs play steadfast armoured warriors in service of the human empire. you have an awesome channel. I look forward to see more. i'm on fb. please send me a message there anytime. :)
I’m currently playing a Cavalier who was a scout sergeant in a war with wild orcs. He’s old now, and adventuring to gather enough money to free his noble nephew, a young knight, whose mother was my character’s only sister among ten brothers. Since the knight lad’s mother and father married out of love (she a commoner, he a decent lord) and all his ten uncles are famous war heroes (at least where he comes from), young Sir Randal Hinden is going to be a fun character.
I intend to kill off my Cavalier sergeant once he’s sufficiently bonded with his new talking horse, then play as Randal instead. But in the meantime, I hope next session to roleplay as *both* characters when Sergeant Igist Vin goes aboard the battleship where Randal is imprisoned.
Also, Randal has a bunch of older knightly brothers. And Uncle Igist was one of the ten Vin boys, with Igist being the only one who has no living children. So... when the city of Mistmoore eventually comes under siege, I plan on bringing *aaallll* the living men and fighting women of the family *and all of their vassals and allies* to the city’s aid. Even if they arrive too late.
Randal’s going to be fun to play. Quite a wide-eyed idealist and romantic. Now traumatized by his enslavement and hoping to redeem himself so he can actually call on his family. With a dash of stupid bravery and ten lifetimes worth of war stories riding around in his head. Ahhh, good times.
Never met a noble that acts like yours. In all the campaigns I've played In, all nobles are guest givers or arrogant infidelic pieces of crap that should be replaced with someone better