Gotta love your commitment and deep dive/going down the rabbit hole. This is why I subscribed to this channel. You always deliver "the goods". I watched the video (all of it) even if I probably won't ever get my hands on these pedals. Keep the awesome content coming. Also congrats on 50K!
Llama only you would continue down the rabbit hole more times than you can remember? Major props for such a spot on review. You and Ray Maker make an awesome review team when it comes to electronics.
I have the same issues with Garmin Vector 3. Thanks for the study and update. Now I know that I need a new battery case. I can't believe how far you went down the rabbit hole. Good one!!
Great job doing this video! What I see here is unacceptable for a supposedly premium product. I mean both battery and accuracy issues. People still gonna buy it though because it is pretty and has Garmin name on it. Stages kept selling buttloads of their power meters despite being notorious for accuracy, battery compartment and signal dropout issues for long years. Power of marketing...
It's not just marketing. The design engineers are good but the QA processes and interdepartmental communications suck. The product could be the best available if properly supported.
Excellently done Lama, I always enjoy your thorough and logical approach to diagnosis. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't "scaled" at the final manufacturing stage and calibrated against a known torque, with the correction stored in flash memory. We take these strain gauges for granted, but in my opinion they're still a pretty amazing piece of technology; the numbers they measure are often pretty weeny. However if the manufacturer makes a claim of accuracy then it's then up to that manufacturer to uphold those claims. I don't own the pedals but will be watching with interest as to how you get on. Good luck.
Shane, THANK YOU for showing this in single pedal mode. I can’t afford a dual setup nor am I at the caliber of needing them and to see how accurate it was against the neo was great! Obviously this is subjective to a riders pedal stroke but it helps to see how it works.
One should loosen the spindle nut and then set the correct toque. All that was demonstrated in the video was that the nut was tightened to 10Nm OR above. The problem is when the nut is too tight. Great video though -Thanks for doing this..
Hi Shane. Very enjoyable and helpful video. Thanks for taking the time to do it. Regarding the tightening of the spindle nut. I believe you should have loosened it first and then tightened to the prescribed setting. Otherwise, you've proven it's tightened to at least 10nm, but it could be more. If it was already tightened to 12nm, your click-stop wrench would click at 10nm because it was previously overtightened. Thanks again
Hi Shane - really appreciated this video. followed it to the letter last night to handle by own V3 service. Many Many thx for being as retentive I am when it comes to service items.
Great work Shane! Very interesting to see you get to the bottom of things, and informative as I am hesitating to buy those, but you're shining light on their shortcomings.
thanks shane for doing all the work for us on the vectors. im like so many mad / frustrated / pissed garmin customers that cant understand why they cant get a set of pedals this caliber correct. im honestly at the point where im ready to ditch them even with this "fix" and get some assiomas and be done with it.
I had a set of these on pre-order way back in october last year. When the release date was continually being pushed back i spat it and swapped them out for a set of P1's (which have been flawless.) In hindsight this seems to be a monumentally good decision! Kudos on your persistence tho mate.
For the record, based on the 12th order 2008 Earth Gravitational Model, the total acceleration of gravity in Ballarat is 9.81738 m/s^2. Excellent analysis in the video.
The slight increase in elevation is apparently offset by some mass concentration in the Earth under your town. If you look at this gravity map of Earth, you can see some highish gravity areas (positive numbers on the scale are higher gravity) at your end of Aussieland. www.popsci.com/sites/popsci.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/import/2013/images/2010/06/goce.gif?itok=RO6FYP-L
Nice video ! Just one comment. To check if the torque of the screw is good, you have to untighten it first, then tighten it to the torque value until feel the click. If you tighten it directly, you might overtighten it.
I was just going to add this comment. You put a torque wrench on a bolt/nut and it clicks without turning you know it's at least that tight, could be a whole lot tighter. Also this could be a source of the errant power reading, maybe?
I also totally agree with these comments. I am not sure exactly what is going on inside the pedals but if accuracy depends on the torque being correctly set to 10Nm then it is essential to loosen the screw first and then re-tighten. The problematic right pedal could already be at 15Nm and you will not know.
Brilliant in-depth analysis. Keep up the great work! I actually ordered the Vector 3 power peddles based on your unboxing video. Looks like I better request those replacement battery caps... 😒 Garmin have really not done themselves any favours rushing what seems to be an early release to market without thorough quality checks in place. At least with thanks to yourself and the community highlighting these issues with factual quantitative evidence Garmin are responding by releasing firmware updates and providing replacement components.
Good vid Shane. In my case as usual I take my bike outside and turn my Garmin on only to be notified of an update for my Vector 3s.Stand there patiently waiting. Mine have been good since that update.
Great analysis shane 👍. I have sent my vector 3 garmin pedals back to garmin and hope they will be fine when they come back. So far I am very disappointed from garmin.
Appreciate the detailed analysis, Mr. Miller. I've been riding with new Vector 3's for about 2 weeks and I'm estimating the right side is reading about 5% low. I have the updated battery caps, using CR1/3N batteries, baby oil, and checked the terminals are proud. I haven't checked the torque on the spindle nut but both pedals "feel" tight and even. I'm trying to decide if I'll run the torque test and offset the right pedal, contract Garmin, or just return them. After riding with a PowerTap rear hub for 2+ years that "just works" every time, it's hard to justify riding with data that I can't really trust.
Estimating is the problem, so yep, a static torque test would be a good start. Updating the scale factor of a power meter is only good when the discrepancy is linear, otherwise it just shifts the issue elsewhere.
I ran the static torque and calculated ratios for left and right (0.930 and 0.968). After a few rides I'm still seeing spikes on the left side that I don't trust.
Nice one Shane. No stone left unturned! When you invest in a product, you want it to work as promised out of the box. The less than optimal performance is not a great advertisement for Garmin, particularly for a product that is a bit more expensive than some of its competitors. You would think that being the 3rd gen that things would have improved...perhaps not.
Excellent job Lama. I have 2 sets of these power meters and have had the same issue with the reading from the right pedal. I have to change the battery pods and update the software. I am a bit miffed about the problems given how much the Vector 3 cost. I will keep an eye out for your next video on this to see if Garmin can get their act together and fix the problem,
Shane, many thanks for all the hard work. As someone who is hovering on V3s vs Assiomas I am very much looking forward to reading what Garmin come back with!
I have a replacement set of Vector 3 here.... I'll be brutally honest. I don't have the motivation to open the box. I really don't. I've spent WEEKS of my time messing about with my previous set. I'm still contemplating returning them for my $1500 back. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them. If I do put them on the bike and they're crap, I'll crack.
I'm sure no-one is expecting you to go through all of that again; my God you've earned the right not to. I think you've convinced me that the Assiomas are the way to go. I'm really enjoying your channel so many thanks and be well!
Watching this video only now but I must say I'm deeply impressed by your approach to this topic. As you said, "these are only numbers" but paying tons of $$$ you would expect that the numbers coming out of these units are accurate. If they are not, what's the point of paying $$$? Cheers! PS: I will search for your follow up videos, keen to see if Garmin has one anything since then
Thank you for demonstrating the possible subtle issues that may influence the pop up of Gremelins. In my case, my G. V3 were purchased in 2020 and the firm ware is now 3.80. I’m still getting the Right Power sensor missing !!? I just saw that Garmin have a note in the G. Connect App not to link the G. V3 with the iOS device IF one is using an Edge series (I believe they note: 520, 820, 1000 and 1030). I’ve removed them from my G. Connect APP. And “à la Sagan... we will see” tomorrow, if this was a connection to a device battle causing the right pedal to drop out !!? Cheers
SITREP I’ve removed the Vector 3 from my Garmin Connect App. on my iOS 13.3.1. So far over 5hrs of riding and I have not had a missing Right power sensor 🤞🏻🤞🏻. Of note 1) I’mstill using the SR44 (2x 1.5V Batt/ side), and 2) I did clean the contacts, those that are found on each side of the battery cup-guizmo(2x) of the right pedal only. I suspect 2) is the biggest issue. I think with ride vibrations small plastic particles (dust) is generated. And with the electric charge at the contacts, this produced static energy that attracts the plastic dust to the poles/contacts. Its a super quick clean to introduce in ones routine every 500km or so, or 50km of cobbles !! 😜😜🤪🖖🏻
Thanks for all the work you're doing to help us Vector 3 owners understand what to expect for power accuracy. Very interested to hear what Garmin says is the problem - we would all benefit if its resolvable?
Hi Shane, Hope all is well. I'm trying to take the next step in my cycling and have some questions. 1. I purchased a Garmin 1030 and I use the PowerTap P1 pedals, are they compatible? Specifically using in Garmin Platform Center Offset and the Left and Right PP. 2. Is it a good thing to be using my Tickr X 4C2B HeartRate Monitor with the Garmin 1030. I like looking at my pedal data while riding.
How many rides after this did the power meter stop working / how many miles until you have to swap batteries ? My v3 will connect and be smoother for 1-2 rides then start with connecting/unconnecting. Do the rally’s have the same issues ?
Don't hold out for that one.... these 'dead honest truths' videos don't serve me well for companies wanting to work with me. Unless they DO make an awesome product and are 100% confident in it. We'll see....
All my Vector 3 problems have been solved by ditching them for a pair of Favero Assioma, which have been rock solid. I will never buy a Garmin product again after this and the Fenix 5 hardware defect. Stay away from Garmin products, their quality control is simply horrible.
As for the quality control: We had a Garmin Swim watch, that wasn't waterproof... And the replacement unit was draining the battery within a single day...
I still (want to) believe they're a market leader in so many aspects. And if I get time I'll cover a few of the new/cool things they've released in the last few weeks on the firmware/software side of things.... but.... with technology they have to innovate, take risks, and sometimes push uncooked things to market to stay ahead of the competition. The result being what we've seen here and on other forums. Hmmm. Anyhow, I'll keep them on their toes! :)
I'm not sure that pushing products to the market that are clearly not working properly is a good long term marketing strategy. If you are in fact souring the taste of your brand with customers I cannot see how this is staying ahead of the competition. I applaud what you are doing Shane as your 'complaints' are not just some random internet person saying 'the pedals are shit bro' and likely to be ignored by the powers that be but like Matt Damon's character in The Martian you 'science the shit out of it' and hopefully Garmin react.
Confirms my decision to steer in the direction of Assioma Duo. They have been rock solid since installing. If I were a Garmin engineer, I'd be embarrassed.
Great job what a thorough fair test It will be interesting to hear what Garmin say also if they sent you a new pair what the results would be in comparison For the money they should be accurate
I also had mine for about 3 months before they stopped working. It took over 2 months to get the new battery cap. They didn't even send new batteries or this new service advisory (have heard nothing about these other issues). I have had about one 5 second signal drop-out with the new battery cap in 30 hours of riding. Not bad compared to where they were but still slightly concerning. If these these break again I'm not looking forward to the enormous hassle of dealing with Garmin.
I’m that guy that over tightened the reverse thread instead of loosening it by turning it the wrong way. The black nut is just spinning now as if it’s threaded and I can’t get it off . Any suggestions please
great video once again Shane. i wondered why they weren't getting much of a run on your channel. i would be very interested of the right pedal reading low is a common thing or not.if you need a fit file or a lone of pedals for test yell out :)
@shane miller great job! I'm having similar issues with dual sided power on my 4iiii crankset. I wonder if the offset that you did would work for my crank as well, I'm pretty close to giving up and just getting an fsa powerbox or the assomia pedals
Based on your videos and struggles, I'm still happy with the purchase of the Favero Uno that you reviewed. Waiting for Cycling dynamics to upgrade to duo... Yes, I'll be waiting a good while
Your finally conclusions are what I expected. I gave mine back a few months ago because after two sets of pedals and a few sets of battery caps I had had it. I'm done with Vectors. Ironically, I changed to the Stages L/R and it was rock solid until I got caught in the rain this past weekend and well now they are reading my power 100 watts too high. I have contact CS at Stages and they are aware of this issue and are trying to solve it with me. I owned SRM for years and rode through every type of weather and never had an issue. The save can be said for my Vector 2's. Does this stuff not go through rigorous testing before release?!
The last thing I would do after ditching power meter with battery problems is buying Stages instead :D It's like asking for a repeat. Why, oh why would you do that?
Hi I had a fall during one ride and padel battery cap got open and pedal movement around the spindle hard and there a bump in the movement. Will I be able to resolve theses by changing the pedal casing.
Make sure that you select the correct amount of battery doors you require 1 for the S and 2 for the dual as I made this mistake and only received 1 so trying to get another one.
Funnily enough my vectors were functioning fine since March up until this week where I've started to see drop outs while on Zwift broadcasting over ant+. I thought it may have been connected to my kickr 18 showing up but that's unlikely. I've updated the firmware, battery caps, batteries, energy ant+ dongle. Just submitted my ticket to Garmin so will see what happens next. I'm a bit of a Garmin fan boy so hoping for the best here!
You're absolutely right, for that amount of money the things should just work right out of the box. At the same time, if you know the readings are off by a couple of percent on one side can't you fix it in the observer?
Fantastic and insight vlog as allways shane, may be garmin will started shipping calibrated 20kg weights with new caps to sort this issue.its a shame garmin continue to use consumers as beta testers paying a premium rate for the privalage.
After watching your video I realised my Vector 3's were showing the same power reading issues (right was low). I had to change my batteries today as they were low and for some reason that issue has gone. Not sure why as batteries shouldn't matter but something to look at.
Hi, i just got the new garmin victor 3 it s working fine except some times its giving right sensor not connected and after uploading the ride i find 3000 wts is registered on Garmin connect!
Thanks for always being so thorough and clear! Your videos are ace. I’m going to be buying a power meter in the next couple of months and given the update, I’m a bit torn between the Favero Assioma and these Vector 3s. Do you (or any others in the comments here) have a suggestion either way?
Hmmm well on one hand you have the rock solid Assiomas that have no problems and many happy owners, or on the other hand you have a piece of crap Garmin that is full of defects and has owners using them as paper weights and then having to do a heap of work to hopefully correct Garmins terrible quality control and poor design. Tough choice...
A €850 power meter should work out of the box! I used to love Garmin. I have a running watch, an Edge unit, the Vector 3 pedals and various Garmin cycling accessories. However, I have reached a point where I don't believe that these pedals will ever work 100 % as intended. Yes, the new battery doors will fix the connectivity issues but I'm also annoyed by things such as: 1) Battery draining 2) Huge power spikes 3) PCO changes from time to time 4) Requires a torque wrench that works in both directions for right pedal spindle (cheap ones don't) 5) Garmin Connect Mobile always report "Good" battery status and shows an exclamation point from the pedals Shane, do you regret that you bought these pedals?
Thank you for the tip, Rich. Garmin just replaced my pedals with some new ones that have the updated battery doors. Let's hope it will solve the issue!
Awesome work Lama, 2.5 years ago you inspired me to get set up with Zwift and now I’m looking a diving into a power meter! I’m running a kickr 1 indoors, would the kickr 1 be more accurate than say a single sided Favero or is dual the only way to go? Looking at saving some money where I can, but I get that it’s all relative in the end product, cheers mate
Nice one. It depends on a few things with the UNO or DUO being 'more accurate'... .If you're well balanced L/R, then single or dual won't really matter a lot. It also depends how accurate your Kickr is. In my experience the Kickr 1 with the new firmware, a good warm up, and an advanced spindown was pretty good.
I have the padels to. The first 3 months they workt perfect, after I had to change a battey the right one started to give issues of connection lost, removed the padels from my headunit for a month so no power meter :( .... last week I did the firmware upgrade nothing changed then disabled the right padel and it works fine, so now riding with only the left one on. Gona order the replacements caps and ty that :) I did choose for the garmin vector 3 because of the looks and I had the head unit.....
Shane any news back from Garmin on this? Also do you know if this is an isolated incident or more widespread? I have a set of Vector 3's and I've not tested them but nothing strange has jumped out to me with L/R balance.
So I tried calibrating them on my edge device and it’s showing error 1024. Tried to pair them with Garmin Connect app phone but won’t be able to calibrate them. It’s taking too much time with no luck. Both pedals are blinking green.
First of all, as always, great video Shane!!! Thanks for sharing this with the Garmin community and the rest of the possible interested folks. I have one question I would like to ask you: what software analysis tool are you using to compare the power data? I am interested for the comparison of the left vs right pedal power data. I have the Wahoo Bolt which generates .fit files. How can I extract the data for the left vs. right? On the Bolt I can see of course the balance between the left and right...Cheers!
I'm not sure mate... it's a cheap brand. If you're after a correct fitting socket, I'd visit a local hardware store and measure up what they have in stock.
i have ordered a set of vector 3's 3 month ago and am still waiting on them. this makes me think i should consider cancelling my order. thanks for following the rabbit hole to whereever it leads. i am curious to what garmin has to say to that. 2.5% is a bit much for
First ride with vector 3's today and I have the same issue. Neo 2T measuring super low... Garmin V3 right pedal measuring low... I'm about to throw all PM's out the window and go old school.... Lol... It's 2020 god damn it. Give me accurate PM's!! I hope Garmin can replace my pedals for a good calibrated pair off the factory...
Why would people even consider the Garmin given the problems they have and having to do all this rubbish ‘fix’ when you can get the Assiomas that work perfectly out of the box? Power of marketing...?
This isn't a leg bias, just to be clear. It's an issue with the slop calibration of the right pedal. I'll beed more data from outside... but it wasn't apparent in the first set of data. I'm done with these for a while now however.
I am seeing a 30w difference between my Vector 3s (reading higher) and Kickr17, have you done any testing with them and have you seen the same difference?
My Kickr17 unit has been pretty good. You'll need a lot more data to determine what's going on here. Static weight tests are extremely handy if you can get a hold of a certified weight.
Hey Shane. First, thank you for your work, I love watching your videos. I'm new to cycling and my wife is getting on board soon. That being said what would you recommend for a solid budget power meter/head unit combo, for outdoor riding including traveling to foreign areas? I currently have an Edge 25 with no power meter and am thinking Edge 130 or Element Bolt and maybe a Stages 3(?). Thank You.
That depends on budget, features you're after, bike compatibility, etc. It's difficult to point you at any single/combo solution and say 'that's the best'. Having said that.... The Edge 1030 looks good for mapping/routing/screen real estate. The Element too, if you're ok with pre-planning routes. Power meter wise... work out where you want to measure power (pedals/crank/spider/wheel) and look into reviews from there. DCRainmaker is a great resource for feature comparisons.
Well, I got the first part of the duo. After debating over the Wahoo element bolt, I just happened to see DC Rainmakers video of the Garmin Edge 520 plus and it looked like a way better deal for only $30 more (US) and went that route. So far so good! More than likely going to pair that with a stages power meter! Thanks for everything!
I agree with Bullwhip. If this is purely a calibration issue from the factory then, while it's not impressive that they have missed by a bit, it is correctable. After that (annoyance factor aside), the only question is how well it performs. Is it stable and now reading correctly? I agree with Shane- they are a beautiful piece of equipment and I want them to work well too! One question for Shane: Did you contact Garmin and ask them to recalibrate?
Any thoughts of reviewing the Stages LR power meters? I'd love to see a comparison on how the units compare to other power meters. Has anyone else who has one noticed discrepancies in temperature readings between the left side and right side? Mine always read a few degrees (Fahrenheit) apart. Sometimes its as much as 4 degrees difference between the two sides. I called Stages a few months ago and told them about this and they grabbed their power meter that they keep in house for testing to see if it did the same, and they said theirs was also showing that it was 3 degrees hotter on one side than the other. I really don't think this is that big of a deal, just an interesting quirk. Power numbers seem good, but its my only power meter so I really have nothing to compare to.
I'm happy to ride/review/discuss Stages LR if I can get access to one. The Stages L GenIII unit I had was a loaner from a friend, that's why that had a run on here.
My Vector 3 work perfect till I had to replace batteries now they drop how over 50% of the time during a ride. Been riding for over 20 years never had power till 6 months ago wish I had keep my money to much of a hassle.
The supplied caps fixed the issues designed to fix. Not my L/R issues though. I have a replacement set here to look into. Maybe. I'm debating if I bother or just return them. These have cost me more time than money. I need to draw a line somewhere..
@@gplama thanks very much. Very disappointing from Garmin. I would go for the Assiomas but I have wide feet and reckoned they might rub. Great channel BTW images a regular viewer
Shane, Thank you for all your hard work this really helps build my confidence. I have been waiting three months for the set of Vector 3s that are now waiting for me at my local bike shop. I am kind of scared to actually take possession of them. Come on Garmin I'm counting on you,.
@@gplama Not optimistic that all the issues are resolved then...? That's too bad, I'm looking into buying a power meter this year and was leaning towards the V3.
Just got new set double-sided vectors off my friend for 450 euro, he didn't want them because the first set caused him problems..I have a old power2max and never had any problems with it.. super reliable
It's not in a neat enough format to be of much use. The formula that counts is: Mass (kg) x gravity (9.81) x crank length (in meters) = expected torque (in Nm)
Hey Lucas, do yourself a favour and cancel the order. Unfortunately I can't tell you what to buy else, because I only have experience with the Vector 3 pedals. These pedals are just frustrating unreliable. Mine are currently sent to customer service (for over a week now).
What's with the baby oil on electrical contact surfaces? To my knowledge, baby oil is not electrically conductive and therefore offers no benefit in that regard. And if it is electrically conductive (which it must be, at least a little, if the unit was operational afterward), I would not want to put any on a button cell battery and risk it bridging the small gap between positive and negative terminals. There are other products available (e.g., electrical grease) that are more viscous and suitable for ensuring good electrical contact.
The baby oil (mineral oil) is recommended by Garmin to solve an electrical "drop-out" problem. It's shown on one of their videos. Apparently, without the oil, a microscopic amount of corrosion can build up and cause an occasional intermittent connection. I've not had any issue once I started doing this trick.
Great work & vid shane! why do you have to do this yourself shouldn't Garmin do this free of charge? They are an expensive bit of gear and I would expect that this should be done as a customer satisfaction type deal!
Gotta love your commitment and deep dive/going down the rabbit hole. This is why I subscribed to this channel. You always deliver "the goods". I watched the video (all of it) even if I probably won't ever get my hands on these pedals. Keep the awesome content coming. Also congrats on 50K!
Szabolcs Gergely Ditto! Brilliant in-depth analysis. Keep up the great work. Looks like I better request those replacement battery housing caps... 😒
Llama only you would continue down the rabbit hole more times than you can remember? Major props for such a spot on review. You and Ray Maker make an awesome review team when it comes to electronics.
Stay tuned for Eurobike then! :)
You can't compare that deep digging to DCR reviews!
I have the same issues with Garmin Vector 3. Thanks for the study and update. Now I know that I need a new battery case. I can't believe how far you went down the rabbit hole. Good one!!
Great job doing this video! What I see here is unacceptable for a supposedly premium product. I mean both battery and accuracy issues. People still gonna buy it though because it is pretty and has Garmin name on it. Stages kept selling buttloads of their power meters despite being notorious for accuracy, battery compartment and signal dropout issues for long years. Power of marketing...
It's not just marketing. The design engineers are good but the QA processes and interdepartmental communications suck. The product could be the best available if properly supported.
Excellently done Lama, I always enjoy your thorough and logical approach to diagnosis.
I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't "scaled" at the final manufacturing stage and calibrated against a known torque, with the correction stored in flash memory. We take these strain gauges for granted, but in my opinion they're still a pretty amazing piece of technology; the numbers they measure are often pretty weeny. However if the manufacturer makes a claim of accuracy then it's then up to that manufacturer to uphold those claims. I don't own the pedals but will be watching with interest as to how you get on. Good luck.
Shane, THANK YOU for showing this in single pedal mode. I can’t afford a dual setup nor am I at the caliber of needing them and to see how accurate it was against the neo was great! Obviously this is subjective to a riders pedal stroke but it helps to see how it works.
One should loosen the spindle nut and then set the correct toque.
All that was demonstrated in the video was that the nut was tightened to 10Nm OR above.
The problem is when the nut is too tight.
Great video though -Thanks for doing this..
You make Rabbit Holes fun to watch. Thanks for all you do!
Brilliant review, Garmin should be glad of your diving into the Rabbit hole and not giving up.
Great Video Shane, much respect for your engineering!
Hi Shane. Very enjoyable and helpful video. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Regarding the tightening of the spindle nut. I believe you should have loosened it first and then tightened to the prescribed setting. Otherwise, you've proven it's tightened to at least 10nm, but it could be more. If it was already tightened to 12nm, your click-stop wrench would click at 10nm because it was previously overtightened.
Thanks again
Hi Shane - really appreciated this video. followed it to the letter last night to handle by own V3 service. Many Many thx for being as retentive I am when it comes to service items.
Great work Shane! Very interesting to see you get to the bottom of things, and informative as I am hesitating to buy those, but you're shining light on their shortcomings.
thanks shane for doing all the work for us on the vectors. im like so many mad / frustrated / pissed garmin customers that cant understand why they cant get a set of pedals this caliber correct. im honestly at the point where im ready to ditch them even with this "fix" and get some assiomas and be done with it.
I had a set of these on pre-order way back in october last year. When the release date was continually being pushed back i spat it and swapped them out for a set of P1's (which have been flawless.) In hindsight this seems to be a monumentally good decision! Kudos on your persistence tho mate.
For the record, based on the 12th order 2008 Earth Gravitational Model, the total acceleration of gravity in Ballarat is 9.81738 m/s^2. Excellent analysis in the video.
Interesting! I thought we'd be a little lower. 37.56°S 143.86°E 412m
The slight increase in elevation is apparently offset by some mass concentration in the Earth under your town. If you look at this gravity map of Earth, you can see some highish gravity areas (positive numbers on the scale are higher gravity) at your end of Aussieland. www.popsci.com/sites/popsci.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/import/2013/images/2010/06/goce.gif?itok=RO6FYP-L
Nice video ! Just one comment. To check if the torque of the screw is good, you have to untighten it first, then tighten it to the torque value until feel the click. If you tighten it directly, you might overtighten it.
I was just going to add this comment. You put a torque wrench on a bolt/nut and it clicks without turning you know it's at least that tight, could be a whole lot tighter. Also this could be a source of the errant power reading, maybe?
I also totally agree with these comments. I am not sure exactly what is going on inside the pedals but if accuracy depends on the torque being correctly set to 10Nm then it is essential to loosen the screw first and then re-tighten. The problematic right pedal could already be at 15Nm and you will not know.
Roger Collingwood my guess is that the torque would not affect it but I don't know for sure
Brilliant in-depth analysis. Keep up the great work! I actually ordered the Vector 3 power peddles based on your unboxing video. Looks like I better request those replacement battery caps... 😒 Garmin have really not done themselves any favours rushing what seems to be an early release to market without thorough quality checks in place. At least with thanks to yourself and the community highlighting these issues with factual quantitative evidence Garmin are responding by releasing firmware updates and providing replacement components.
Very glad I went with Favero Assioma pedals.
how are you finding them so far? I am still undecided between the assioma and the V3
Good vid Shane. In my case as usual I take my bike outside and turn my Garmin on only to be notified of an update for my Vector 3s.Stand there patiently waiting. Mine have been good since that update.
Feeling quite pleased that I went for the 3s for now, hopefully the right pedal will be sorted by the time I can afford the upgrade.
Great analysis shane 👍. I have sent my vector 3 garmin pedals back to garmin and hope they will be fine when they come back. So far I am very disappointed from garmin.
Appreciate the detailed analysis, Mr. Miller. I've been riding with new Vector 3's for about 2 weeks and I'm estimating the right side is reading about 5% low. I have the updated battery caps, using CR1/3N batteries, baby oil, and checked the terminals are proud. I haven't checked the torque on the spindle nut but both pedals "feel" tight and even.
I'm trying to decide if I'll run the torque test and offset the right pedal, contract Garmin, or just return them. After riding with a PowerTap rear hub for 2+ years that "just works" every time, it's hard to justify riding with data that I can't really trust.
Estimating is the problem, so yep, a static torque test would be a good start. Updating the scale factor of a power meter is only good when the discrepancy is linear, otherwise it just shifts the issue elsewhere.
I ran the static torque and calculated ratios for left and right (0.930 and 0.968). After a few rides I'm still seeing spikes on the left side that I don't trust.
Nice one Shane. No stone left unturned! When you invest in a product, you want it to work as promised out of the box. The less than optimal performance is not a great advertisement for Garmin, particularly for a product that is a bit more expensive than some of its competitors. You would think that being the 3rd gen that things would have improved...perhaps not.
Very nice analysis. Logical and thoughtful.
Excellent job Lama. I have 2 sets of these power meters and have had the same issue with the reading from the right pedal. I have to change the battery pods and update the software. I am a bit miffed about the problems given how much the Vector 3 cost. I will keep an eye out for your next video on this to see if Garmin can get their act together and fix the problem,
Shane, many thanks for all the hard work. As someone who is hovering on V3s vs Assiomas I am very much looking forward to reading what Garmin come back with!
I have a replacement set of Vector 3 here.... I'll be brutally honest. I don't have the motivation to open the box. I really don't. I've spent WEEKS of my time messing about with my previous set. I'm still contemplating returning them for my $1500 back. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them. If I do put them on the bike and they're crap, I'll crack.
I'm sure no-one is expecting you to go through all of that again; my God you've earned the right not to. I think you've convinced me that the Assiomas are the way to go. I'm really enjoying your channel so many thanks and be well!
Really excellent vid. I absolutely want some of those pedals but I've learned I absolutely should wait to see if garmin can sort themselves out
Watching this video only now but I must say I'm deeply impressed by your approach to this topic. As you said, "these are only numbers" but paying tons of $$$ you would expect that the numbers coming out of these units are accurate. If they are not, what's the point of paying $$$? Cheers! PS: I will search for your follow up videos, keen to see if Garmin has one anything since then
Thank you for demonstrating the possible subtle issues that may influence the pop up of Gremelins.
In my case, my G. V3 were purchased in 2020 and the firm ware is now 3.80. I’m still getting the Right Power sensor missing !!?
I just saw that Garmin have a note in the G. Connect App not to link the G. V3 with the iOS device IF one is using an Edge series (I believe they note: 520, 820, 1000 and 1030).
I’ve removed them from my G. Connect APP. And “à la Sagan... we will see” tomorrow, if this was a connection to a device battle causing the right pedal to drop out !!?
Cheers
SITREP
I’ve removed the Vector 3 from my Garmin Connect App. on my iOS 13.3.1.
So far over 5hrs of riding and I have not had a missing Right power sensor 🤞🏻🤞🏻.
Of note
1) I’mstill using the SR44 (2x 1.5V Batt/ side), and
2) I did clean the contacts, those that are found on each side of the battery cup-guizmo(2x) of the right pedal only.
I suspect 2) is the biggest issue.
I think with ride vibrations small plastic particles (dust) is generated. And with the electric charge at the contacts, this produced static energy that attracts the plastic dust to the poles/contacts.
Its a super quick clean to introduce in ones routine every 500km or so, or 50km of cobbles !! 😜😜🤪🖖🏻
Thanks for all the work you're doing to help us Vector 3 owners understand what to expect for power accuracy. Very interested to hear what Garmin says is the problem - we would all benefit if its resolvable?
Impressive detailed follow up!
Hi Shane, Hope all is well. I'm trying to take the next step in my cycling and have some questions. 1. I purchased a Garmin 1030 and I use the PowerTap P1 pedals, are they compatible? Specifically using in Garmin Platform Center Offset and the Left and Right PP. 2. Is it a good thing to be using my Tickr X 4C2B HeartRate Monitor with the Garmin 1030. I like looking at my pedal data while riding.
How many rides after this did the power meter stop working / how many miles until you have to swap batteries ? My v3 will connect and be smoother for 1-2 rides then start with connecting/unconnecting. Do the rally’s have the same issues ?
Looking forward to the new Look/SRM unboxing
Don't hold out for that one.... these 'dead honest truths' videos don't serve me well for companies wanting to work with me. Unless they DO make an awesome product and are 100% confident in it. We'll see....
Both leading companies in their field. Hopefully, they can put out a good product out. But I will wait and see before buying.
All my Vector 3 problems have been solved by ditching them for a pair of Favero Assioma, which have been rock solid. I will never buy a Garmin product again after this and the Fenix 5 hardware defect. Stay away from Garmin products, their quality control is simply horrible.
As for the quality control: We had a Garmin Swim watch, that wasn't waterproof... And the replacement unit was draining the battery within a single day...
I still (want to) believe they're a market leader in so many aspects. And if I get time I'll cover a few of the new/cool things they've released in the last few weeks on the firmware/software side of things.... but.... with technology they have to innovate, take risks, and sometimes push uncooked things to market to stay ahead of the competition. The result being what we've seen here and on other forums. Hmmm. Anyhow, I'll keep them on their toes! :)
I'm not sure that pushing products to the market that are clearly not working properly is a good long term marketing strategy. If you are in fact souring the taste of your brand with customers I cannot see how this is staying ahead of the competition. I applaud what you are doing Shane as your 'complaints' are not just some random internet person saying 'the pedals are shit bro' and likely to be ignored by the powers that be but like Matt Damon's character in The Martian you 'science the shit out of it' and hopefully Garmin react.
I am shocked at how perfect the Assomas have worked for me so far.
What was the Fenix 5 defect?
Confirms my decision to steer in the direction of Assioma Duo. They have been rock solid since installing. If I were a Garmin engineer, I'd be embarrassed.
Me too!!!! Way better than my original Vectors and 100% in line with my Quarq ..... could not ask for more from my Assioma Duo's.
same!
It's a management problem.
Great job what a thorough fair test
It will be interesting to hear what Garmin say also if they sent you a new pair what the results would be in comparison
For the money they should be accurate
Just returned mine after 4 rides. Had Power2max for 3 years without a single problem
Looking forward to the follow up video. Great stuff!
This resolved my battery issue. Now waiting for the new battery covers from Garmin.
I also had mine for about 3 months before they stopped working. It took over 2 months to get the new battery cap. They didn't even send new batteries or this new service advisory (have heard nothing about these other issues). I have had about one 5 second signal drop-out with the new battery cap in 30 hours of riding. Not bad compared to where they were but still slightly concerning. If these these break again I'm not looking forward to the enormous hassle of dealing with Garmin.
I’m that guy that over tightened the reverse thread instead of loosening it by turning it the wrong way. The black nut is just spinning now as if it’s threaded and I can’t get it off . Any suggestions please
great video once again Shane. i wondered why they weren't getting much of a run on your channel. i would be very interested of the right pedal reading low is a common thing or not.if you need a fit file or a lone of pedals for test yell out :)
@shane miller great job! I'm having similar issues with dual sided power on my 4iiii crankset. I wonder if the offset that you did would work for my crank as well, I'm pretty close to giving up and just getting an fsa powerbox or the assomia pedals
Based on your videos and struggles, I'm still happy with the purchase of the Favero Uno that you reviewed. Waiting for Cycling dynamics to upgrade to duo... Yes, I'll be waiting a good while
Any recommendations out there for thin socket sets that will fit into the pedal? My automotive sockets are too thick.
Your finally conclusions are what I expected. I gave mine back a few months ago because after two sets of pedals and a few sets of battery caps I had had it. I'm done with Vectors. Ironically, I changed to the Stages L/R and it was rock solid until I got caught in the rain this past weekend and well now they are reading my power 100 watts too high. I have contact CS at Stages and they are aware of this issue and are trying to solve it with me. I owned SRM for years and rode through every type of weather and never had an issue. The save can be said for my Vector 2's. Does this stuff not go through rigorous testing before release?!
The last thing I would do after ditching power meter with battery problems is buying Stages instead :D It's like asking for a repeat. Why, oh why would you do that?
michwoz I guess I was unaware that Stages has had battery issues
You need to do more research before purchase mate. Internet is full of Stages horror stories. I hope your issue will be successfully resolved.
I've had my Stages for several years without any trouble other than occasional drop outs when connecting to my Garmin.
I had my vector 3 replaced one week after purchase, couldn't handle them at all. Now waiting for new battery caps to be delivered.
I’ve got that collar gap and I now cannot get purchase with the 12mm. Can anyone help?
Hi I had a fall during one ride and padel battery cap got open and pedal movement around the spindle hard and there a bump in the movement. Will I be able to resolve theses by changing the pedal casing.
That's one for Garmin Support.
Make sure that you select the correct amount of battery doors you require 1 for the S and 2 for the dual as I made this mistake and only received 1 so trying to get another one.
Thank you for the review and update.
Funnily enough my vectors were functioning fine since March up until this week where I've started to see drop outs while on Zwift broadcasting over ant+. I thought it may have been connected to my kickr 18 showing up but that's unlikely. I've updated the firmware, battery caps, batteries, energy ant+ dongle. Just submitted my ticket to Garmin so will see what happens next. I'm a bit of a Garmin fan boy so hoping for the best here!
You're absolutely right, for that amount of money the things should just work right out of the box. At the same time, if you know the readings are off by a couple of percent on one side can't you fix it in the observer?
Fantastic and insight vlog as allways shane, may be garmin will started shipping calibrated 20kg weights with new caps to sort this issue.its a shame garmin continue to use consumers as beta testers paying a premium rate for the privalage.
After watching your video I realised my Vector 3's were showing the same power reading issues (right was low). I had to change my batteries today as they were low and for some reason that issue has gone. Not sure why as batteries shouldn't matter but something to look at.
Hi, i just got the new garmin victor 3 it s working fine except some times its giving right sensor not connected and after uploading the ride i find 3000 wts is registered on Garmin connect!
But apart from that it works fine LOL
Thanks for always being so thorough and clear! Your videos are ace.
I’m going to be buying a power meter in the next couple of months and given the update, I’m a bit torn between the Favero Assioma and these Vector 3s. Do you (or any others in the comments here) have a suggestion either way?
Hmmm well on one hand you have the rock solid Assiomas that have no problems and many happy owners, or on the other hand you have a piece of crap Garmin that is full of defects and has owners using them as paper weights and then having to do a heap of work to hopefully correct Garmins terrible quality control and poor design. Tough choice...
How do you get right and left power. Garmin connect only shows total power and L/R balance - but I cannot figure out how to compare right to left !
I assume its from using www.dcrainmaker.com/analyzer
Happy I went with the vector 3s.
Is there a way to make sure I buy the new revision of Vector and not the old one?
A €850 power meter should work out of the box!
I used to love Garmin. I have a running watch, an Edge unit, the Vector 3 pedals and various Garmin cycling accessories.
However, I have reached a point where I don't believe that these pedals will ever work 100 % as intended. Yes, the new battery doors will fix the connectivity issues but I'm also annoyed by things such as:
1) Battery draining
2) Huge power spikes
3) PCO changes from time to time
4) Requires a torque wrench that works in both directions for right pedal spindle (cheap ones don't)
5) Garmin Connect Mobile always report "Good" battery status and shows an exclamation point from the pedals
Shane, do you regret that you bought these pedals?
Try the single Duracell lithium battery. I am so far getting 4X the life I got with the dual batteries. I am still using the original battery doors.
Thank you for the tip, Rich. Garmin just replaced my pedals with some new ones that have the updated battery doors. Let's hope it will solve the issue!
Awesome work Lama, 2.5 years ago you inspired me to get set up with Zwift and now I’m looking a diving into a power meter! I’m running a kickr 1 indoors, would the kickr 1 be more accurate than say a single sided Favero or is dual the only way to go? Looking at saving some money where I can, but I get that it’s all relative in the end product, cheers mate
Nice one. It depends on a few things with the UNO or DUO being 'more accurate'... .If you're well balanced L/R, then single or dual won't really matter a lot. It also depends how accurate your Kickr is. In my experience the Kickr 1 with the new firmware, a good warm up, and an advanced spindown was pretty good.
I have the padels to.
The first 3 months they workt perfect, after I had to change a battey the right one started to give issues of connection lost, removed the padels from my headunit for a month so no power meter :( .... last week I did the firmware upgrade nothing changed then disabled the right padel and it works fine, so now riding with only the left one on.
Gona order the replacements caps and ty that :)
I did choose for the garmin vector 3 because of the looks and I had the head unit.....
Shane any news back from Garmin on this? Also do you know if this is an isolated incident or more widespread? I have a set of Vector 3's and I've not tested them but nothing strange has jumped out to me with L/R balance.
Nope. I've been too busy to chase them. I'll do an update when I can. If I cross paths with them at Eurobike I'll have a chat to them.
Thanks Shane. Location agnostic would you recommend the Garmin vector 3 or Rotor 2INPOWER?
Between the two? A working set of Vector 3. The 2INPower reading high indoors sets off my spidey senses.
Hi Shane,
I’m always getting error 1024 while calibrating my pedals before the ride. Any idea how it can be fixed?
Check them with the Garmin Connect mobile app.
So I tried calibrating them on my edge device and it’s showing error 1024.
Tried to pair them with Garmin Connect app phone but won’t be able to calibrate them. It’s taking too much time with no luck.
Both pedals are blinking green.
Best contact Garmin support on this one.
First of all, as always, great video Shane!!! Thanks for sharing this with the Garmin community and the rest of the possible interested folks. I have one question I would like to ask you: what software analysis tool are you using to compare the power data? I am interested for the comparison of the left vs right pedal power data. I have the Wahoo Bolt which generates .fit files. How can I extract the data for the left vs. right? On the Bolt I can see of course the balance between the left and right...Cheers!
DCRainmaker Analisys Tool. www.dcrainmaker.com/analyzer
What brand sockets are you using? My Craftsman 12mm socket has an 18mm OD.
I'm not sure mate... it's a cheap brand. If you're after a correct fitting socket, I'd visit a local hardware store and measure up what they have in stock.
Any idea if the battery issue has surfaced for the Vector 3S's?? I have not seen a service advisory in my email...
Yes. Identical.
i have ordered a set of vector 3's 3 month ago and am still waiting on them. this makes me think i should consider cancelling my order. thanks for following the rabbit hole to whereever it leads. i am curious to what garmin has to say to that. 2.5% is a bit much for
Very interesting - is there an update to report on how Garmin respond to your detailed work?
Coming soon! I have a replacement set ready to pour the acid on... so to speak. Stay tuned.
Shane - any news from Garmin on the low read from the right pedal?
I have a replacement set of Vector3 here. I'll loop back to them soon.
First ride with vector 3's today and I have the same issue. Neo 2T measuring super low... Garmin V3 right pedal measuring low... I'm about to throw all PM's out the window and go old school.... Lol... It's 2020 god damn it. Give me accurate PM's!! I hope Garmin can replace my pedals for a good calibrated pair off the factory...
Excellent update that, thanks. So after all of that effort what's the bottom line, garmin vector 3 or favero assioma duo?
None, just ride, it’s less stress :)
Why would people even consider the Garmin given the problems they have and having to do all this rubbish ‘fix’ when you can get the Assiomas that work perfectly out of the box? Power of marketing...?
Shane, do you have the same left foot bias when outdoors with the V3?
This isn't a leg bias, just to be clear. It's an issue with the slop calibration of the right pedal. I'll beed more data from outside... but it wasn't apparent in the first set of data. I'm done with these for a while now however.
I am seeing a 30w difference between my Vector 3s (reading higher) and Kickr17, have you done any testing with them and have you seen the same difference?
My Kickr17 unit has been pretty good. You'll need a lot more data to determine what's going on here. Static weight tests are extremely handy if you can get a hold of a certified weight.
Hey Shane. First, thank you for your work, I love watching your videos. I'm new to cycling and my wife is getting on board soon. That being said what would you recommend for a solid budget power meter/head unit combo, for outdoor riding including traveling to foreign areas? I currently have an Edge 25 with no power meter and am thinking Edge 130 or Element Bolt and maybe a Stages 3(?). Thank You.
That depends on budget, features you're after, bike compatibility, etc. It's difficult to point you at any single/combo solution and say 'that's the best'. Having said that.... The Edge 1030 looks good for mapping/routing/screen real estate. The Element too, if you're ok with pre-planning routes. Power meter wise... work out where you want to measure power (pedals/crank/spider/wheel) and look into reviews from there. DCRainmaker is a great resource for feature comparisons.
Well, I got the first part of the duo. After debating over the Wahoo element bolt, I just happened to see DC Rainmakers video of the Garmin Edge 520 plus and it looked like a way better deal for only $30 more (US) and went that route. So far so good! More than likely going to pair that with a stages power meter! Thanks for everything!
Hi Shane, I really want these to work! Any news from Garmin yet? Looking forward to next update on these.
Me too. I have a replacement set to install. I’ve been avoiding them. I’ll get back to them soon.
Shane Miller - GPLama thanks for the super quick reply! I'm going to wait for your new review before I purchase....No Pressure!
Is there one side available(garmin vactor3 left side)?
Garmin Vector 3S.
@@gplama Only 3 no s.
are the battery caps for the 'old' vector3 -owners free or do I have to purchase them...?
Free, contact Garmin if you didn’t get the email.
I agree with Bullwhip. If this is purely a calibration issue from the factory then, while it's not impressive that they have missed by a bit, it is correctable. After that (annoyance factor aside), the only question is how well it performs. Is it stable and now reading correctly? I agree with Shane- they are a beautiful piece of equipment and I want them to work well too! One question for Shane: Did you contact Garmin and ask them to recalibrate?
Round 3 video on that.... stay tuned.
Any thoughts of reviewing the Stages LR power meters? I'd love to see a comparison on how the units compare to other power meters. Has anyone else who has one noticed discrepancies in temperature readings between the left side and right side? Mine always read a few degrees (Fahrenheit) apart. Sometimes its as much as 4 degrees difference between the two sides. I called Stages a few months ago and told them about this and they grabbed their power meter that they keep in house for testing to see if it did the same, and they said theirs was also showing that it was 3 degrees hotter on one side than the other. I really don't think this is that big of a deal, just an interesting quirk. Power numbers seem good, but its my only power meter so I really have nothing to compare to.
I'm happy to ride/review/discuss Stages LR if I can get access to one. The Stages L GenIII unit I had was a loaner from a friend, that's why that had a run on here.
You should compare the new updated factory vector 3 with your updated ones
Excellent work
My Vector 3 work perfect till I had to replace batteries now they drop how over 50% of the time during a ride. Been riding for over 20 years never had power till 6 months ago wish I had keep my money to much of a hassle.
Try the new battery doors and the single Duracell Lithium battery and the current v3.50 firmware.
Can you tell me the model of that battery you are saying? THX.
Duracell DL1/3N CR1/3N 3V Lithium Battery. I got four months riding just about every day.
Hi Mr Llama sir. Do you have any updates please? Did the fix work?
The supplied caps fixed the issues designed to fix. Not my L/R issues though. I have a replacement set here to look into. Maybe. I'm debating if I bother or just return them. These have cost me more time than money. I need to draw a line somewhere..
@@gplama thanks very much. Very disappointing from Garmin. I would go for the Assiomas but I have wide feet and reckoned they might rub. Great channel BTW images a regular viewer
Shane, Thank you for all your hard work this really helps build my confidence. I have been waiting three months for the set of Vector 3s that are now waiting for me at my local bike shop. I am kind of scared to actually take possession of them. Come on Garmin I'm counting on you,.
Any updates on right pedal under reporting power?
The returned set are still in their box. Problem avoidance.
@@gplama Not optimistic that all the issues are resolved then...? That's too bad, I'm looking into buying a power meter this year and was leaning towards the V3.
So I should be happy with only having Vector 3S?
🤷🏻♂️
Just got new set double-sided vectors off my friend for 450 euro, he didn't want them because the first set caused him problems..I have a old power2max and never had any problems with it.. super reliable
Got the new ones. Power drops consistently even with new batteries.
I’ll send them back and see what the service center has to say.
Shane, can you share the spreadsheet please?
It's not in a neat enough format to be of much use. The formula that counts is: Mass (kg) x gravity (9.81) x crank length (in meters) = expected torque (in Nm)
Ordered mine three months ago, still haven't received them.
lucky you. i had mine before christmas and like everything else i have had a $1000 set of paperweights.
Hey Lucas,
do yourself a favour and cancel the order. Unfortunately I can't tell you what to buy else, because I only have experience with the Vector 3 pedals. These pedals are just frustrating unreliable. Mine are currently sent to customer service (for over a week now).
so how are these pedals after 1-1/2 years?
Still in use as part of my power testing, so they're still going well with the 4th gen battery doors.
@@gplama good news! i'll start out with replacing the right pedal batter compartment and see how that goes
What's with the baby oil on electrical contact surfaces? To my knowledge, baby oil is not electrically conductive and therefore offers no benefit in that regard. And if it is electrically conductive (which it must be, at least a little, if the unit was operational afterward), I would not want to put any on a button cell battery and risk it bridging the small gap between positive and negative terminals. There are other products available (e.g., electrical grease) that are more viscous and suitable for ensuring good electrical contact.
Recommended by Garmin on their forums 🤷🏻♂️
The baby oil (mineral oil) is recommended by Garmin to solve an electrical "drop-out" problem. It's shown on one of their videos. Apparently, without the oil, a microscopic amount of corrosion can build up and cause an occasional intermittent connection. I've not had any issue once I started doing this trick.
I don't think most torque wrenches work both ways. Bit annoying process imo.
I was looking at these but I waited to see what would happen with the door. Now with this info I think I go with a less hassle and cheaper power meter
Great work & vid shane! why do you have to do this yourself shouldn't Garmin do this free of charge? They are an expensive bit of gear and I would expect that this should be done as a customer satisfaction type deal!