Floridaman Makes an HK P7 Knockoff
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2023
- A tale of the sordid history of the Heritage Stealth and Wilson Combat ADP; two gas delay blowback pistols designed in South Africa and made in the US... maybe.
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i feel like this whole thing is .. below what i would expect from wilson combat. kinda wonder what they saw in this. seems like one of those things where the engineers didnt stop think if they SHOULD.... like why wasnt the HK p7 wildly popular? ..hmmm
Rumor has it that Bill Wilson was friends with Alex Du Plessis and that might be why they went for it.
@@Hoplopfheil also hans used one in die hard.
The P7 was wildly popular considering it's price tag. WILDLY popular.
I don't know whether that is what Hop is talking about when he calls it overrated, but fans of the P7 say the main gimmick of the gun isn't the gas delayed system, but the half cocking mechanism. The point is that by not having to cock the striker with the trigger, you get a hammer fired style trigger out of a striker fired gun and that was what the main advantage was, especially back in the day when good triggers on striker fired guns were not just a rarity, but pretty much unheard of.
It is the combination of the fixed barrel and the "assisted trigger" which makes the gun easy to shoot accurately, at least according to people like Ian Mccollum.
@@TrangleC I would use the word "Feature" instead of "gimmick", lol. Also, Ian McCollum is correct, the P7 is insanely easy to shoot fast and accurately. It also has a very long 4.2" barrel for it's OAL.
Finally, back to "Hop bought a handgun while drunk, so now to get some of the money he spent on it back he is making us and giving entertainment". One of my favorite series of the internet
Hop: *laughs in demonization*
Polish that turd.
"You will absolutely enjoy shooting a P7 more than the Stealth"
Given how little I enjoyed shooting a P7, that does not bode well.
I handled a P7 once at a gun show, never had a desire to buy one afterwards.
I've had two, an original PSP and a P7 M8 (which I still have) I have shot the be-Jesus out of these things and can say nothing compared to it in the early '80's. Has it been surpassed, you bet but at the time, even Jeff Cooper thought highly of it. I have even shot it loaded 158 grain wadcutters and it fired all 50 rounds flawlessly. So say what you will, I won't be selling mine!
@@KamikazKid or you’re just poor and can’t afford one
@@NewbombedTurk nah, just not going to shell out 2300 for the most dogshit trigger on a handgun I've evet felt. Seriously that squeeze cocking bullshit is just awful, but by all means continue to suck H&K off that gun was terrible.
Still kicking myself for not buying a brand new P7 back in the '80s.
I saw on Instagram before, someone tagged HK in a comment begging them to bring back the P7. HK didn't mince words. They said, and I quote: "No". The hipsters were devastated.
Meanwhile, Ian is confused at the sudden influx of requests for some obscure 90s handgun from South Africa.
Haha! I bet you're right
Give him actually something to do instead of shilling really bad Smart guns or other bad guns.
@@Blackbomber200 lol
@@Blackbomber200why, they are cool as fuck. It's forgotten weapons, not "the shit I specifically want and nothing else"
It's funny because Ian did a video on the Temu version of the Steyr GB that was made (poorly) under no license in the USA.
Back in the early 2000's I received a Wilson Combat catalog in the mail where they featured their new ADP. From what I remember, it was Bill Wilson's attempt at bringing in a double stack, striker fired, 9mm polymer gun to compete with Glock in the Stock Service Pistol division of IDPA. Bill Wilson, Ken Hackathorn, Larry Vickers and a few others founded IDPA, as they felt USPSA has became more about equipment and the "shooting game" than it was about tactics and practical use of a firearm in self defense. IDPA has several divisions, and the big boy on the block for the SSP division was Glock (I believe it was specifically the Glock 34). The catch is for anything to be considered SSP, it needed to be mass produced (I forgot the number, but it's in the thousands). That will limit any oddball one offs, custom gunsmith specials or prototype guns. From what I remember, the ADP was discontinued by WC due to reliability issues. My swiss cheese'd brain felt like it had something to do specifically with the ejector, too. But regardless, it lived under the Wilson flag for a few years before dying. I never saw anyone use one personally, as they were still a bit more expensive than a Glock, did not provide the same front sight radius as a G34, and well... everyone at that time wanted to be Dave Sevigny.
I wanted to be a train.
Fun fact: The random website from the dusty corner of the Internet translates literally as "weapons catalog" in Italian. This website existed in a period in Italy were every gun in the civilian market had to get a catalog number, a part from the serial number. The number was to identify the gun and its features (manufacturer, barrel lenght, caliber, and so on) due to gun laws, which limited some firearms or features to the civilian market. So for example if you didnt know about the gun you were looking at, you could identify it by its serial number and its catalog number, written usually as "CAT:XXXXX".
Nowadays this sort of national register has been dismissed, but you can still find many guns that have a catalog number written on
So like the Firearms Reference Table or F(a)RT in Canada, except people actually used it?
@@simoncleret sorry but to be honest I don't really know much about the Canadian gun laws. I can confirmed that the website was used, and still it is. As much as that people still mistakenly refer to the catalog when looking for information or stuff like that, even if it is clearly obsolete by today standards
I've noticed this on the websites of some reproduction companies like pedersoli and possibly uberti and pietta.
so thats why my pardini says Cat. 6969 on the side of it
@@gundamned4879 nice
Hops cheap handgun overviews are the best gun videos on the internet 100%
If you want a semi-modern pistol the Walther CCP runs the same piston system.
I thought Walther CCP was rotary??
***runs to Google***
Far too expensive for him
@@kirkfreeman6913 gas delayed piston, gets hot AF after like 50 rounds of shooting,
@@kirkfreeman6913
No, gas delayed. The takedown is different, but gen 2 doesn't require a toll. I've seen reviews that were pretty favorable. Slide retraction is light. It's not made by the regular Walther factory, but by the Umarex factory; I read that Walther has its own area in their factory.
@@kirkfreeman6913 most recent rotary I know of is the PX4.
Yeah. Most Walther guns are made in Ulm. The CCP is made in...what in my head is WeaponsTown Germany. Arnsberg? Something like that.
I'm always jealous of Paul Harrell's Steyr GB when he brings it out. Can't really say the same about most of Hop's hipster guns.
Resident Evil 2 Leon storyline nostalgia.
Enh shooting the GB is not a great experience. It’s accurate, but not particularly soft shooting or comfortable, nor does it have a good trigger pull. It’s biggest claim to fame was the 18rnd magazine and unique gas delayed mechanism.
Still way better than shooting the HK VP70. What an underwhelming piece that thing is.
the GB isn't all that, my specific gripe is the the double feed mag makes the top of the grip overly wide so you get the recoil right in the base of your thumb and index finger.
@@rpblccmmndo389 yeah. Definitely makes less comfy than a pistol with a slimmer grip frame at the top. At least there isn’t a sharp protuberance there to dig into your palm (looking at you, S&W 5906).
Interesting to note that the FEG APK was a copy of the FEG SAPS made in Hungary for the South African Police Service. They had a coupla thousand come directly to the USA via Plant City because they were contract over-runs. All said "Made in Hungary" with stipple engraving but the SAPS logo and Plant City import logo was laser printing. The only info about these is word-of-mouth from dealers at the time as common knowledge and never reaches the internet. It's quite possible that Wilson and Heritage were over-runs and the final engraving process for country of origin was skipped over and the earlier models were not.
Whatever, FEG
God i love FÉG
Those pistols were commercial Feg AP-9 pistols with SAPS slide markings. They were in all the Gun Mags with full page advertisements being billed as “detective” pistols. My understanding is that they found their way to the U.S. because the South Africans decided for whatever reason that they didn’t want them.
Those are nice hideouts but htf.
I can answer your importation question. I have been in the international importation business for 20+ years dealing with compliance issues. The simple version is that all imported good must be marked with the country of origin so that the end user/consumer knows where the product was made. Bulk goods and unfinished parts have different country of origin marking So if a frame was imported from South Africa it would need to be marked as such. The ATF would also require marking of the origin of manufacture as well as the importer’s information as you noted on your imports. I would suspect that Wilson/Heritage bought a technical package with molds and milling specs
Good info. I wonder why the extant sources about these guns seem to think they were imported...
@@Hoplopfheil probably, and as happens all to often on the internet, somebody made an overly confident guess and it got repeated enough to become a fact
@@Hoplopfheil don't know for sure but ill bet assumptions were made without having actually gotten primary sources.
Finally a video about a weird defunct handgun. True return to form. I will happily give all my reddit gold for more.
"reddit gold" fuck off dork
"Gotta protect the money maker" that gun doesn't threaten your feet in the slightest
I remember seeing the Vektor in gun mags. They always looked both awesome scfi and totally stupid at the same time.
scifi IS stupid
Can always just buy a Taurus Spectrum as it looks almost the same.
@@docgiggs looks the same, but it is a 380 with a tilting barrel rather than the gas delayed blowback of the P7, CP1, Stealth or ADP. But it's cosmetics are an absolute rip off of the CP1 - I will give it that.
@@AmmoC9M I didn't say it was the same gun. I said it looked the same. Since you were mentioning you wanted a stupid looking sci-fi gun then the spectrum looks like the CP1 to fit that bill.
@@docgiggs Yes, I'm a fanboy with no shame for the 'stupid looking sci-fi gun'. I do thank you for alerting me to the existence of the Taurus Spectrum; I wouldn't be aware of it if you hadn't mentioned it : )
This needed more “Firefly” clips. Shiny!
There's a Firestar in that show too
You can’t talk about a South African handgun from the early 90s without me hearing the phrase “Diplomatic immunity” in my head
"...has just been revoked."
If the gundies had a best eyebrow category I’d vote Hop two bazillion times 👊🏼
They have a hard time hiding behind the charlie Sheen sunglasses.
Walther CCP and the Laugo Alien prove to me that piston-delayed pistols have potential. Also, if there was ever a rainy-day Forgotten Weapons video, .45 GAP might take the cake.
The laugo alien proves that a handgun that weighs more than 2lbs is a soft shooter
@@Hoplopfheil You're just a cynic... how dare you brings physics and facts into it
@@Hoplopfheil Heard those with "meaty paws" were getting slide bite from the Alien. Can't imagine buying it and finding out that it makes you bleed.
Someone finally mentioned the walther. Confused why it was missing from this video
@@flopus7 I mentioned the Walther in a reply 3 months ago.
"At least they didn't use Comic Sans" That took me so off guard, thank you for the belly laugh.
It looks like what would happen if Hi-Point made a slimmer gun but kept the same aesthetics
Hop...the Ian McCullom we have at home.
I’ve always wanted a P7 but could never afford it, I guess this is the next best thing
Alex C must be seething right now
Out of curiousity, why would he be? I wasn't around for whatever drama happened.
@@FoxtrotFleet From what I remember he was a douche that supported the NFA because it protected his dad's MG investments. Could be wrong though so take it with a grain of salt, it's been a while.
See GBGuns post.
@@TheMonkeytrumpetz no, he just left because he had an interest in cars and wanted to pursue that, TFB subtracted from his ability to pursue his automotive hobby, I was just joking because his EDC was a P7 at some point
I was looking for this comment about Alex C. 😆
"Old west style script" is not what jumped into my mind, it looks like the script off the cover of an early 2000's gangsta rap album. Fits the gun better when you think about it like that.
Bone Thugs 'n' Heritage
I’ve been thinking for years that HK should bring back the P7, but in a polymer frame - and without the squeeze cocker. Had no idea both ADP/Wilson made these weird little guns. The wonderful thing about the P7 is its form: slim, gracefully balanced, pointable. Thank you for making this video!
I have a P7, it is my grail gun. I was lucky to have purchased it about 13 years ago before the prices went insane. Love shooting it.
The PSP's were dirt cheap when they came into the country but even those are a couple grand now. I wish I had bought about 10 of them.
The P7 was one of the first guns I ever shot. My Grandad had one. We looked all over for it when he passed away, but couldn’t find it. Maybe he sold it. Not sure. I want one very badly these days
My cousin bough several M13s ex law enforcement with mags marked law enforcement only for 380 each surplus he had no clue the current value, just the highest overall quality I have seen in a duty gun and low bore axis..
I had a Heritage Stealth back in early 00's. I got rid of it after reading accounts of the firing pin working loose and ejecting rearwards. Of course, it lines up with your eye. It is secured by only a half turn of the locking mechanism.
I remember these from the 90's. I knew a few guys who carried them off duty as they were much cheaper than Smith 3913s and 6903s or the almost impossible to get at the time Glock 26. I ran a few magazines through one, preferred my 3913. Excellent video, keep 'em comint.
Nice to see you return to obscure old pistol reviews...and completely stumping me with something I've never heard of before.
It looks like a miniature Hi-point
It kinda is, look at a Lorcin. That's the OG yeet cannon.
I have an HK P7M8 that I bought in 1992 which I still have. Once you figure out the manual of arms it’s actually an amazing pistol.
Forgotten Weapons Millennials…. Content I didn’t know I needed but I’m glad I’m here for it.
Looks like how people draw handguns from memory
Lol idk Kermit, it's better than mine And after watching this video I kinda want one now. Looks like one u can find in the last of us
lol
It's like every anti gunners rendition of a handgun
Love that dollar store, toy gun, waffle texture on the grips. Lol
Kinda has the whole 'boogers in the grooves of 70's corduroy pants' vibe to it!
Hop: I can't afford a P7
Also Hop: *has NVGS and a laser that on its own costs almost as much*
Can't waste my NODs money on frivolities
P7 are cool. But they aren’t see in the dark cool lol
@@Hoplopfheil I would think a P7 PSP is a fraction of the cost of PVS-14s.
@@Valorius You would be correct.
You can find those for ~$2k.
At least you could the last time I checked on them.
@@pewpew9193 Back around 2010 you could get the Grade C guns by the crate for $400 a piece.
I still have Vektor cp1 that i bought back in 2001. it doesn't have best trigger but I love that gun. it's accurate and handles nicely to me.
A South African once told me, South Africans are basically Dutch Floridians. So I guess they didn’t stray too far from their root😂
I went through a police academy back in 1992 and qualified with a P7M8. I loved that thing.
"It's a really nice pistol, but it's over-rated."
That, ladies and gentlemen, is not easy to do. lol
I owned a heritage as my first pistol, in 40, I got from my dad as a gift and sold it 3 months later for a Glock, that pistol had been in our family since I was probably 10, never fired because my father was so sketched by it, I never even fired it, just got rid of it the second I could. This is the first video ever I’ve seen on the shitbox, who knew someone would appreciate it.
WOW, I really enjoyed the education of these Firearms, their history and how they operate!!! Thank you!!😃👍👊🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
i used beretta 92 style mags in my one. alex did pass away, i did talk with him for a article on the orig adp way back then.
I have seen 1. Heritage Stealth in the wild, I passed on it because it had an issue of only fireing sometimes. It was $125 bucks, I should have bought it "just because"😁
This was almost my first handgun. Glad I got a S&W revolver instead. This was 1995ish and I think the Stealth was selling for $225 which back then wasn't as cheap as it sounds today.
You can tell it’s an ADP from the way that is. Hope that helps. ❤️
Another Gas Delayed Blow Back Pistol to consider is the Walther CCP M2, available in 9x19mm and .380 ACP.
The last thing I expected today when I woke up was seeing Hop doing a video about a gun I had been planning to research on but kept forgetting about, really nice
The main engineering advantage for the P7 is the squeeze coming mechanism. Squeezing the grip operates a cam that clocks the firing pin, so the trigger is much lighter and ready to fire. So putting the pistol down releases the firing pin to safe. Throwing the pistol releases the grip and goes back to safe. Squeezing the grip takes 12 pounds. About the same as to properly holding the pistol. Keeping the grip squeezed is only about 2 pounds.
The barrel is fixed, so accuracy is enhanced with no tilting barrel. The polygonal rifling reduces barrel wear, seals the gas pressure better, producing high velocities, and easier to clean as there are bo lands and grooves to hide lead residue.
These guns have no relationship to the P7. Zero engineering and no design enhancement.
TY! Enjoyed vid/your comments!
Man i love quirky guns like this. Youre the best reviewer of them.
I wonder how the ADP compares to modern single stack 9mm carry guns. Maybe there's some merit to this particular handgun (well at least the Wilson one lol)
These are my favorite hop vids, history on somthing weird
HeHeHe😂😂 Loved this, you do a brilliant job entertaining folks on this & damn you did a lot of research. Thanks Buddy
I had one of these way back in the mid 90s! It was my first off duty pistol. But it was chambered in .40cal. It was heavy, clunky, and had huge recoil. But I still loved that thing. I regret selling it. If I ever find another one Im going to buy it. Thanks for the video. It was a blast of the past!
Lol, that opening was great, I tried to explain that operation to some people and you are right..
Well the title certainly grabbed my attention.
WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE MORE SUBSCRIBERS??? Awesome content and production. Keep it up!
Purchase a P7 back in the eights. Still have it.
Love your content Hop. Alex used to own my local gun shop where I grew up and we used to shoot together. Did you know he won gold in the team category in IPSC 1977? He went over to work at Wilson in the early 2000 but you are probably right with the frames being made here. He did the same with the 45 KZ frame. I bought one over here before Wilson even had a model out. I have a thing for delayed blowback and have a P7, GB, CP1 and ADP. The Norinco and Walther are on the watch list.
Just came to your video and channel. Nice vid bro. The Africans also make another of my favorites. The Vektor CP1. 😎. Love mine you can still get them. 2000 made. I have the 45 Equinox too. Looks similar to some other guns on the market too. The break down is similar to the Vektor CP1 and the Lorcin 25 acp.
I wanted an inexpensive, thin, 9mm, single stack, light weight but highly accurate pistol that could easily fit shoulder, back or belt. As a qualified Army expert of 1965, the Heritage Stealth C1000 more than filled the bill as a concealed carry. It is certainly not perfect for 99% of shooters but I was not trained to evaluate pistol videos, I was trained for disabling an enemy. The Stealth works well in the context for which I was trained and the use intended. 3/3 ACR.
Noice. I've wanted the Walther CCP M2, for some time now. Thanks for the share!!
Maybe they just dropped onto the market from a parallel dimension. ..
The silver flats make it look like a high point. Nice.
What makes the P7 special is the squeeze cocker, not the operating mechanism.
Another great video in a pistol I have been curious about for a fee years. Never even knew about the Wilson Combat version. And yes, Ian should definitely go back to South Africa and dig a little deeper on this gun. Maybe I have bad taste in guns but I loved the semi only subguns he showed while in SA. I dig tube guns and guns that look like they were made in a muffler shop by Aussie biker gangs.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
imagine getting killed by "edp" gun
"ask ian. haha just kidding. unless..."
If Ian had access to that .45ADP round and, or the pistol, we would not have to ask him to make a video. He would swim to South Africa to make a video on it. An experimental round for a prototype gun that never sold makes him foam at the mouth with excitement.
I heard hop say south african and everything made sense, i love south african gun design; they look so interesting and kinda pretty.
Dude Florida man is a busy guy.
Bonus points for the Firefly clip.
I love the little "please do not do that" at the end as if that will make any difference at all. You've met the internet, right? Mr McCollum will be getting spam about this for a good week.
Sionyx, PVS-14, Steiner, what? We're home, pistolbros.
Looks like what hipoint wanted but couldn't afford the tooling for.
Someone just decided “WHY NOT?!?” on this one. Not gonna lie though…I want one lol
Wilson combat looks good! 👌
I had the ADP around 2005/2006 and assembling the slide was a pain in my ass. I had a bunch of jams. Got rid of it a while ago. I liked the size of it though.
I was issued the P7 while I was in JSOC and really liked it. The exchange rates kept me from ever owning one.
For another gas-delayed blowback there is the Walther CCP.
Whats JSOC
@@Kai-ky6tf ask google
@@Kai-ky6tf Google Joint Special Operations Command. I was a young Marine back then (81-83)
I didn't know there were Marines in JSOC back then.
@@davem2369 We had people from all four Services. I wasn't quite a plank holder but was there for the 1st Anniversary of the unit being stood up.
I have saved most of my gun publications, and I know one of them has a column on it. Price MSRP according to G&A 1998 a Heritage C-1000 stealth 9mm was $300.00. A 1996 guns magazine has the stealth MSRP at $299.95 (both calibers) Both only show Heritage arms Opa Locka Florida, no importer. What was also curious is Heritage also listed a 25 ACP model H25S Blue $149.95 and nickel at $159.95 in 1996. If I can find the magazine with the heritage info I will send it to you, hope this helps a little, keep up the great content!
funny it has south africa heritage because the lines immediately reminded of that south african pistol that came with a safe that forgotten weapons covered awhile ago. muskgrave?
I see your gunbroker story is the same as my CZ100 story.
I can see KelTec making a new version of the P7
Quality schmality, gun go boom every time gun is maximize quality
I legit thought he said, "The holy grail of Hamster Handguns" 🐹
The perfect sidearm to match your Ross rifle!
I’ll ask Ian on Friday night at midnight Brutality, which I can’t believe you’re not doing!
Maybe some day I'll find that somebody completed the .40S&W hydrocephalus with the SD threaded barrel - the very reason for that weird shape...In early '90s standard .40S&W was subsonic, 10.24g @ 300-320m/s
"Got to protect the moneymaker"
Just ask admin if you can have his balaclava
This looks like a good-looking high point
I had Stealth in early 2k paid maybe 125 for it----magazine actually exploded and sent rounds all over......traded it out soon after.
I actually carried a Steyr GB-----was highest cap gun I could find when i was a youngin in the late 1980s---also had a VP70 same time. Was massive but awesome.
Heat cat ! Heat cat ! Heat cat !
My EDC is a Glock 43x (I needed a light pistol after my spin injury) and Colt King Corba 2" ankle carry.
Very interesting 👌 no squeeze cocker though.
You better fear us florida men
This whole video made me feel a lot better about being a CZ pistol “hipster”
Yo these are sick I need the Wilson combat
i need to learn more about south african history and gun manufacturing...
Another gun that uses what at least looks the same style action is the Walther CCP M2.
I like the mystique around this discussion more than I like the Heritage Stealth, though the Winson Combat is interesting. And I like Glock off's in general as I have the Taurus G3C and two S&W SD pistols
Thanks, Hop 😁
He said comic sans.