Bad business. Every knifemaker has finishing ht mechanics issues. He said himself he knows has to fix material he didn't process steel correct. What BS THESE TYOES OF COMPANIES MADE ME WANNA QUIT THE HOBBY
Well, Survive released the NDA video talking about the decarb issue you mentioned in the heat treating process. Would like to hear your follow up on that. Sucks that I never got my knife.
Waited over four years for my survive… got them to respond to my inquiries twice, then was ghosted. I understand why people don’t trust survive about anything they say.
I love your take on these issues. You do your best to steelman the other side, and approach things in an extremely evidence based way. You're a huge asset to the community, bottom line.
I watched the video and it's ridiculous. I thought every steel warped . No accountability don't offer steel or procedures u know u can't do in a production setting. Especially if that's the price u have set. Smh
Did survive get a few sheets of bad steel, probably. Did Niagra offer to replace it, definitely. is there some secret issue with CPM steel, certainly not since they have a decades, long track record, supplying the knife industry with high-quality steels. Survive was also critical of 3V that they received. Survive had three separate issues with Magna cut, warping, decarb, and voids. The warping and decarb we’re both process issues. The voids are a steel issue, however, only a handful of blades had voids, such that survive. Was concerned about getting eight samples back. With that in mind, the void issue was rather limited in its scope, and Niagra was willing to replace it for them and then some. My assessment is that the issues are being substantially overstated by survive, and their motive for that would seem pretty obvious. As for the 20% loss rate that we Knives was reporting, although that seems a little high, it is being reported by a Chinese manufacturer, who cannot buy Magnacut directly at this point. Is that 20% loss or 20% redirection? I don’t know of any domestic manufacturers reporting that level of loss, although in fairness, a 10% loss rate is not out of the norm and that would not be exclusively caused by the steel, but other factors in the process of manufacturing can all add up to 10% loss.
My honest opinion is, if you're having an issue with a steel I admire if you move on from it. Use a steel you can deliver a quality product. But ..... that doesn't make the steel junk.
Some people are at 8 years or waiting for their knife. It’s also not entirely about waiting 4 months for a knife it’s that it’s been a string of excuses for the entire existence of the company and the inability to have money to refund orders or even complete orders that have been paid for. For me they destroyed their credibility with the years of excuses. They also heavily moderate their RUclips comments to remove anything negative towards them.
I dont think they've managed their affairs well at all to this point. I just wanted to provide an actual explanation for what might be happening in terms of surface defects while admitting I don't have an explanation for the lab images.
The survive story keeps changing as well they said their finishing process reveals these defects but they also said later it’s seen in every stage. They also said they only see this because other knife makers don’t care about the quality of the finished knife like they do.
that sucks, I have heard multiple stories of unfulfilled orders/promises. Unfortunately I can't do much about it, iirc the state attorney was involved already.
My question is how the heck do we know survive is really showing voids in magnacut? Maybe they bought crappy steel at a discount and lying and tell us its magnacut just to save face regarding their crappy reputation
Nice work showing how a process can create a defect. In my experience things can go very wrong very quickly when you switch materials, set prices, and try to scale without adequate process development. I work developing manufacturing processes, it is evident to me from survive’s videos that they chose to scale without adequate process development as many of their complaints are routine issues when switching materials in manufacturing, that should be ironed put before you scale. Normally you handle those by doing a small pilot run and price them in.
My problem with Survive Knives is not what they said about magnacut- It is that they have taken money from customers. They have not produced the paid for knives or offered refunds and have used the magnacut argument as an excuse.
This is the chance you take when buying in to pre orders. How many companies have done pre orders and people waiting 1, 2+ years... hell my SK23 took me almost 3 years and I had long given up on it. Pre orders are a bad investment across the board and are just asking for these issues to happen.
@@EDCandLace respectfully disagree. Many makers don't make you pay full upfront or just a small deposit. Guy has been taking people's money to fund old orders. He has proven time and time again that he spends your money on nothing related to your actual knife, but on materials and equipment to build knives promised to others years ago. That's how this dude operates and it's disgusting. Preorders are meant to secure materials necessary for the batch CURRENTLY BEING ORDERED, not for him to catch up on old orders because he has no clue how to run a business. The guy's a schmuck.
If you receive a knife I'm sure it's pretty nice. However, I'm in the batch of folks who have yet to receive what I paid for, they refuse to issue a refund or even provide an expected delivery date. Their business practices are horrible and they do indeed delete any negative comments form their RUclips videos/posts.
I contacted Frank at NSM the issues survive was seeing in magnacut... He said survive sent them a sample with the issue and after their investigation NSM determined nothing was wrong with the steel. Fwiw 🤷🏻♂️
Josh that’s load of crap I talked to another local knife production company in my state and they had the same issues survive knives did. They don’t want to come out and be public about it because of drama and they don’t want backlash but they quit using magnacut and S45VN and said they have found voids in 3V in the past.
In 2022 I started a gofundme to pay for a lawyer after I was threatened with a lawsuit by Hinderer. They never actually sued me and it died in settlement talks.
Maybe pre-orders should be a thing of the past. I get the funding issues would make some knives not come to life without then but in to many cases pre orders are causing these issues. It's not the first time or the first company... people invest their money and it happens over and over.
I think you are perhaps naive when you detach Survive's reputation and known and acknowledged business practices from the discussion. When one considers an allegation of misconduct, it is not merely logical but in my opinion obligatory to consider these things when one party in a dispute makes *unusual and unique to them* allegations against another party which has no such history of reputational issues for misconduct and questionable business practices.
I see where you're coming from, but I believe that in cases like this physical evidence supercedes reputation. Survive had pictures and video evidence of oddities in some of the steel, which have now been corroborated by other knife makers and companies who do not have the same reputational issues (Oz Machine Co, Grimsmo, Machinewise, Assassin, Eutsler, for example). Those makers have had some issues with MagnaCut here and there, and all have stellar reputations.
@@transparentknives I'm not saying it's conclusive and that Survive's side should be summarily dismissed. What I am saying is that their reputation has to be a consideration when their claim is not facially obvious. Because it strikes me that this case arose not over the properties of Magnacut but because of the business failure and a likely attempt to deflect attention from that failure to shift blame to a supplier. That is MY opinion only, but I think it's supportable and reasonable.
@@chuckschillingvideos I agree to some extent. I believe that regardless of whether or not there were issues with MagnaCut, Survive was going to go bankrupt due to psat business practices and massive backlog of orders. I was strictly talking about what the likelihood was that there were actually problems with MagnaCut at some point from the manufacturer/roller. I do think your opinion is reasonable.
Peter's did it to a lot of knives. The decarb happened to bark river and even custom makers using magnacut.
Man, how awesome is Larrin Thomas, what a bro for taking time out of his day to try to help figure this out.
He is biased though. Their are experts better than him as well.
@@tacticalcenter8658 -- I bet they're experts who know the difference between 'there' and 'their' too.
Bad business. Every knifemaker has finishing ht mechanics issues. He said himself he knows has to fix material he didn't process steel correct. What BS THESE TYOES OF COMPANIES MADE ME WANNA QUIT THE HOBBY
Well, Survive released the NDA video talking about the decarb issue you mentioned in the heat treating process. Would like to hear your follow up on that. Sucks that I never got my knife.
came for the survive controversy, stayed for the cool magnacut lesson
Waited over four years for my survive… got them to respond to my inquiries twice, then was ghosted. I understand why people don’t trust survive about anything they say.
I love your take on these issues. You do your best to steelman the other side, and approach things in an extremely evidence based way. You're a huge asset to the community, bottom line.
I watched the video and it's ridiculous. I thought every steel warped . No accountability don't offer steel or procedures u know u can't do in a production setting. Especially if that's the price u have set. Smh
Did survive get a few sheets of bad steel, probably. Did Niagra offer to replace it, definitely. is there some secret issue with CPM steel, certainly not since they have a decades, long track record, supplying the knife industry with high-quality steels. Survive was also critical of 3V that they received. Survive had three separate issues with Magna cut, warping, decarb, and voids. The warping and decarb we’re both process issues. The voids are a steel issue, however, only a handful of blades had voids, such that survive. Was concerned about getting eight samples back. With that in mind, the void issue was rather limited in its scope, and Niagra was willing to replace it for them and then some. My assessment is that the issues are being substantially overstated by survive, and their motive for that would seem pretty obvious. As for the 20% loss rate that we Knives was reporting, although that seems a little high, it is being reported by a Chinese manufacturer, who cannot buy Magnacut directly at this point. Is that 20% loss or 20% redirection? I don’t know of any domestic manufacturers reporting that level of loss, although in fairness, a 10% loss rate is not out of the norm and that would not be exclusively caused by the steel, but other factors in the process of manufacturing can all add up to 10% loss.
I’d like to focus on getting the knife I ordered over two years ago………..
My honest opinion is, if you're having an issue with a steel I admire if you move on from it. Use a steel you can deliver a quality product. But ..... that doesn't make the steel junk.
Some people are at 8 years or waiting for their knife. It’s also not entirely about waiting 4 months for a knife it’s that it’s been a string of excuses for the entire existence of the company and the inability to have money to refund orders or even complete orders that have been paid for. For me they destroyed their credibility with the years of excuses. They also heavily moderate their RUclips comments to remove anything negative towards them.
I dont think they've managed their affairs well at all to this point. I just wanted to provide an actual explanation for what might be happening in terms of surface defects while admitting I don't have an explanation for the lab images.
RUclips is removing comments with ai.
@@tacticalcenter8658 That's annoying. I don't delete/remove any comments period
@@transparentknives I know. But part of censorship, yt just does it randomly. You dont even know why it happens.
The point is... They are blaming survive for deleting comments, when its probably not them.
The survive story keeps changing as well they said their finishing process reveals these defects but they also said later it’s seen in every stage. They also said they only see this because other knife makers don’t care about the quality of the finished knife like they do.
Weird, survive website is gone. My knife preorder form 2021 still was never fulfilled. I hope Guy goes to prison.
that sucks, I have heard multiple stories of unfulfilled orders/promises. Unfortunately I can't do much about it, iirc the state attorney was involved already.
Great test. Survive has said they send their knives out very close to final thickness.
My question is how the heck do we know survive is really showing voids in magnacut? Maybe they bought crappy steel at a discount and lying and tell us its magnacut just to save face regarding their crappy reputation
There's no way to know really so I'm not assuming either way
Nice work showing how a process can create a defect. In my experience things can go very wrong very quickly when you switch materials, set prices, and try to scale without adequate process development.
I work developing manufacturing processes, it is evident to me from survive’s videos that they chose to scale without adequate process development as many of their complaints are routine issues when switching materials in manufacturing, that should be ironed put before you scale. Normally you handle those by doing a small pilot run and price them in.
My problem with Survive Knives is not what they said about magnacut- It is that they have taken money from customers. They have not produced the paid for knives or offered refunds and have used the magnacut argument as an excuse.
This is the chance you take when buying in to pre orders. How many companies have done pre orders and people waiting 1, 2+ years... hell my SK23 took me almost 3 years and I had long given up on it. Pre orders are a bad investment across the board and are just asking for these issues to happen.
@@EDCandLace respectfully disagree. Many makers don't make you pay full upfront or just a small deposit. Guy has been taking people's money to fund old orders. He has proven time and time again that he spends your money on nothing related to your actual knife, but on materials and equipment to build knives promised to others years ago. That's how this dude operates and it's disgusting. Preorders are meant to secure materials necessary for the batch CURRENTLY BEING ORDERED, not for him to catch up on old orders because he has no clue how to run a business. The guy's a schmuck.
I am trying to keep an open mind and say yes there might be something there but I agree with you we don’t have enough information.
If you receive a knife I'm sure it's pretty nice. However, I'm in the batch of folks who have yet to receive what I paid for, they refuse to issue a refund or even provide an expected delivery date. Their business practices are horrible and they do indeed delete any negative comments form their RUclips videos/posts.
I contacted Frank at NSM the issues survive was seeing in magnacut... He said survive sent them a sample with the issue and after their investigation NSM determined nothing was wrong with the steel. Fwiw 🤷🏻♂️
Josh that’s load of crap I talked to another local knife production company in my state and they had the same issues survive knives did. They don’t want to come out and be public about it because of drama and they don’t want backlash but they quit using magnacut and S45VN and said they have found voids in 3V in the past.
This comment by REKKnives is a lie. Please do not say things just to try and start controversy and get your 5 mins.
@@justonemoreknaf you are more than welcome to contact NSM yourself to see what they say... Have you? I was just reporting what Frank said.
Did you start a go fund me for a lawsuit?!
In 2022 I started a gofundme to pay for a lawyer after I was threatened with a lawsuit by Hinderer. They never actually sued me and it died in settlement talks.
Just remove the decarb like CRK and Transparent knives does, problem fixed
Maybe pre-orders should be a thing of the past. I get the funding issues would make some knives not come to life without then but in to many cases pre orders are causing these issues. It's not the first time or the first company... people invest their money and it happens over and over.
I don't mind pre-orders if it is pay when it is ready to ship or a small down payment and rest when ready.
🎈
Survive Knives is a scam company
No they are not I have placed orders and gotten my knives… how is that a scam?
You received the knives you ordered but there are plenty of people who did not receive their orders and waited years.
I've bought a bunch of Survive knives and have no complaints. Money for a quality product... That's a WEIRD scam if it is one!
@@J27-usa Ever heard of a ponzi scheme? Not every single person gets scammed. Just 90% of them, lol
@@Tkz9000still waiting three years later. Now it’s a non-issue……
Some companies might have problem but they can deal with it and not effecting their bottom line.
Magnacut is legit!
I think you are perhaps naive when you detach Survive's reputation and known and acknowledged business practices from the discussion. When one considers an allegation of misconduct, it is not merely logical but in my opinion obligatory to consider these things when one party in a dispute makes *unusual and unique to them* allegations against another party which has no such history of reputational issues for misconduct and questionable business practices.
I see where you're coming from, but I believe that in cases like this physical evidence supercedes reputation. Survive had pictures and video evidence of oddities in some of the steel, which have now been corroborated by other knife makers and companies who do not have the same reputational issues (Oz Machine Co, Grimsmo, Machinewise, Assassin, Eutsler, for example). Those makers have had some issues with MagnaCut here and there, and all have stellar reputations.
@@transparentknives I'm not saying it's conclusive and that Survive's side should be summarily dismissed. What I am saying is that their reputation has to be a consideration when their claim is not facially obvious. Because it strikes me that this case arose not over the properties of Magnacut but because of the business failure and a likely attempt to deflect attention from that failure to shift blame to a supplier. That is MY opinion only, but I think it's supportable and reasonable.
@@chuckschillingvideos I agree to some extent. I believe that regardless of whether or not there were issues with MagnaCut, Survive was going to go bankrupt due to psat business practices and massive backlog of orders. I was strictly talking about what the likelihood was that there were actually problems with MagnaCut at some point from the manufacturer/roller. I do think your opinion is reasonable.
You people got played by Survive Knives.