Railnet - Royal Mail's £150m Waste
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2024
- Merry Christmas! :D
As many of you will be opening presents today, this video seemed appropriate to release as, for quite a few people, their precious gifts, cards and letters would have been transported via mail train.
In this regard, we look at the history of Railnet, an ambitious scheme developed in 1993 that was meant to assure the long-term future of mail train operations within the UK, but after spending £150m and constructing a brand new range of dedicated depots and rolling stock, this elaborate project was rendered obsolete within 6 years.
All video content and images in this production have been provided with permission wherever possible. While I endeavour to ensure that all accreditations properly name the original creator, some of my sources do not list them as they are usually provided by other, unrelated RUclipsrs. Therefore, if I have mistakenly put the accreditation of 'Unknown', and you are aware of the original creator, please send me a personal message at my Gmail (this is more effective than comments as I am often unable to read all of them): rorymacveigh@gmail.com
Clips from the Trainspotting TV series are credit of the Discovery Channel - big thanks to PedroDactyl for correcting me on that. :)
The views and opinions expressed in this video are my personal appraisal and are not the views and opinions of any of these individuals or bodies who have kindly supplied me with footage and images.
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References:
KentRail (and their respective sources)
Mail Trains by Julian Stray (and his respective sources)
Wikipedia (and its respective references)
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So frustrating to see the short-sighted and incompetent decision-making ruining a perfectly viable operation - what a waste
@@jwalker7567 Agreed 100% Not enough lorry drivers anyway and road haulage should only be from the station to the customer
@@jwalker7567 read my item on what is happening at Daventry on the comments section here.
Yeah, thats Royal Mail management..
@@paulfisher8753 Sounded more like Rail Track messing around.
I work in an office around the corner to the Royal Mail depot at East Midlands Airport. The steady queue of lorries trundling to and from the M1 / M42 is truly depressing. The environmental cost and the human cost of road freight is awful.
Makes you think how many parcels lorries could be replaced by one train.
This argument has been raised time and time again; unfortunately management (in whichever industry/service) have always plumped for the easiest option of road transport. It sometimes seems as if only legislation would force many companies to use rail transport
@@russellfitzpatrick503 mail in Australia is 100% road/air and many businesses prefer road transport as the most flexible option. I’ve seen rail sidings built and never used. Especially disgraceful was the new line to Webb Dock that was never used and eventually dismantled.
I think what happens is that rail companies keep raising prices making sidings impractical. They probably don’t want the business and adjust prices to deter any interest in rail transport.
@@russellfitzpatrick503 Wrong... Check out the new 80,000 square feet building going up at Daventry International Rail Freight Terminal for Royal Mail set to open 2023 to get light logistics and parcels back onto the rails.
@@darrylrichardson7940 unfortunately only a very small amount will be leaving the roads as most lines no longer run anywhere near their depots anymore
@@darrylrichardson7940 With the cancelling of the eastern leg of HS2 this will be pretty badly impacted considering the government in their infinite wisdom want to spend more money and more time "upgrading" the east coast main line and putting more inter city services on it rater than releasing that capacity with the new line. They'll just use it as an excuse to not bother with more rail infrastructure saying obviously it doesn't work, ignoring the bit where they planned it that way. The voting public are idiots though and will lap it up.
To be honest, one of my favorite things about RES was its paint scheme.
Yeah as I am former postal worker in Switzerland, fonctionaire postal and having spent many hour in such wagons, though "only" loading and unloading stationary, always in a hurry, as the International ICEs were in a hurry to go for Germany or Zürich Main Station. I wonder if you can get these very nice coloured cars and Engines as Modell Railways? Same about french TGV Postal🤓? And by the way, you see their cleaned and ironed working coats, very clean despite the work is sometimes quite dusty and dirty, not all parcel are clean....and most of them wearing a tie! I call that style! I wonder if that's "only" for the movie or was general rule?
@@th.h.4947 Salü Post kollege, grusss von Dielsdorf Briefzustellung ;)
@@th.h.4947 and the uniform you see being worn was standard in Royal Mail until the 1990s
@@th.h.4947 I know Hornby made all of the strange primary-colour-cubism liveries in the 90's. They made a model of the old steam-hauled post office coach, too, complete with the catch net for mailbags!
As a postie and a frequent rail traveller, this excellent video shows up two things I want: mail services to be run by people who know about mail; rail services to be run by people who know about rail. Sadly....
It's just like any large firm, management never asks for the employee's input; those employees who will ultimately be operating the equipment or the system.
It's a problem throughout British industry. Companies being run by managers who have attended the ACME school of management and have no knowledge of what the companies actually do. Gone are the days when managers worked their way up from the workshop floor.
@@ukdave57 Exactly. What worries me most, though, is whether such a management model is capable of getting this (UK) economy back on its feet.
Knowing about the business's products is considered old fashioned. In the 80s abstract "management" became the thing and thus the managers who know nothing have to hire consultants. It hasn't been a positive change.
@@ian_b Summed up precisely, thanks.
The ridiculous thing is that the decrease in letter traffic and large increase in parcel traffic was becoming obvious in the early 2000s yet Royal Mail did absolutely nothing to plan for it. Railnet would have been perfectly placed for this and been able to offer massive long haul services for every courier firm in the country
Agree on parcel and letter trends. Who sends letters anymore ? I think the days of rail carrying loads of parcels has gone and they would need to compete for main depot deliveries. Can’t see courier firms being supplied by train.
I visited Royal Mail’s own railway. I don’t remember the date, but it was on the day that Thameslink opened as I remember that I used that service from Herne Hill to Farringdon on its opening day to get there.
By that time parcels and packets were no longer being carried on the Post Pffice Railway, only the letters section of the platforms at Mount Pleasant being in use. I don’t know the reason for this, but the move away from rail for parcels seems to have happened on the Post Office Railway even earlier than it did on the national railway network.
Meanwhile NZ Post announced an increase in letter rate from early2022, while they are flourishing with their parcel etc delivery service, along with other private delivery company networks.
Centralised sorting means a letter posted to Wellington 100km away will probably take 3+ days to be delivered. In 1968 i could get an airmail letter to western Sydney in under 48 hours.
I remember people saying how the internet was going to devastate the postal service yet I've spent more money posting parcels sold on ebay than I've ever spent on letters in my whole life. That's before even considering internet-ordered parcels.
When I was a "wee lad" & had an electric train set, I remember having a TPO carriage. I had great fun seeing it race past the trackside post which held a plastic mail bag. There was a raised part between the rails that opened the side door to collect the mail bag. Literally hours of fun as a kid ! 😎
Never had one myself but a pal of mine did and it was fascinating.
I had that Hornby set “ with a class 37 diesel with mail coach. Best Christmas present ever
There’s a real, preserved setup on the Great Central Railway at Quorn & Woodhouse station yard south of Loughborough. It’s demonstrated from time to time.
@@johnkeepin7527 Thanks for the info John. That line is not too far from where I live - I'll try to visit them at some point. 👍
Worked on a TPO in the 80s
See, there's your problem right there: The Daily Mail train... They could have sped up the service by calling it The Daily Express, but that wouldn't have improved the quality of delivery... 😉😁
Perhaps the daily star - with topless staff working on coach 3........?
It's not Christmas without a Motion History episode to watch! Have a great day all! 🌲🎄
Thanks, you too! :D
Yeah
@@rorymacve Compare 1930s Nazi Germany Vs 2020s Communist Chinazi IN YOUR NEXT VIDEO Project before it's too late
Thank you and you too although it has now gone Christmas Day and it is now Boxing Day for me.
Ok cat lady
I'll add a statistic to the comments on here. There's been two studies done on how many cars it takes to do the same amount of damage to a road surface as one single loaded lorry. They both came to the roughly the same figure. It's 150,000. So in effect virtually all road maintenance costs are caused by lorries.The cost is born by the taxpayer in various ways. It's one of the many ways we pay considerably more subsidy towards road transport (and air travel) than we ever did on railways.
As a rail fan and a postman I found this fascinating. A big thank you for the hard work in bringing this to us. Hope you have a great Christmas and a wonderful new year
Yes all that investment new rail hubs for mail, new rolling stock, all thrown away for lorries,we dont even send trains by rail these days.
These "Motion History" programs are way more interesting and educational than most of the usual stuff on TV. Good work!
Class 319s were originally designed to carry the mail. At 1 end of each unit, there's a couple of flip up bench seats and a lockable sliding door. That compartment was designed to be sectioned off to carry the mail. If you look at early Thameslink 319s you will see the Royal Mail badge at 1 end of the train. I don't think they were ever used to carry mail though.
Not much remains of these features unfortunately, but some units still have a light on the side of where this area used to be which would read “Not In Use” if illuminated. I’m not sure if these are still functional but they are to my knowledge the only visible remnant of the former parcels section.
The 321/4s for the WCML had the same facility I believe (also never used) and was identified by a P suffix to the running number at on end, later removed.
@@soundseeker63 and the Class 320s too
Isn't that the case for almost all multiple units of that time? The 158s had an area for parcels too
There are currently 2 319s (or conversions of such) hauling mail up and down the WCML. By the end of 2023 there will be a UK wide network of parcels trains ran by 319 derivatives.
Merry Christmas! I have been watching your videos with my grandpa, just want to say that like many of us here, I am continually astonished by your ability to provide excellent information on these forgotten stories! Thank you for all the work and passion you put into these and merry Christmas!
EWS charging more and more money with the attitude of ‘don’t worry,it’s fine RM always renew’ then one year RM called their bluff. That was the end of that!
Best times of my service at RM,when they used Railnet. Maybe it’ll come back (TPO excluded)
EWS was warned, but thought they knew best.
In the early 2000's I used to pick my partner up from Cheltenham station late at night, him having come down from Sheffield, and I was taken with what I think were EWS units hurtling through the station going North; it was an impressive sight.
As an addendum to this video I was employed by EWS at the time of the introduction of 325 units and I can tell you we put in a total of 51 different offers to the PO to try and keep the Mail on rail, all to no avail as the PO seemed adamant that they could move stuff quicker by road!
In Sweden after being on the decline Swedish Mail (Posten) did a similar scheme of concentrating post sorting to a few intermodal terminals which formed a network connected by mail trains.
There is no sorting on the trains and they are pulled by geared up Rc4P goods locomotives pulling dedicated mail freight cars (Gblss-y) at 100 miles an hour in very high priority trains rivaling the X2000 passenger trains in travel time.
1960's era wagons (DF28/D38/D48/Db) where also used until 2010 these had been used for on train sorting until 1996 but the last 14 years of service they where only used as mail freight cars.
With letters decreasing and packages increasing with the advent of internet shopping mail trains out compete weight restricted air freight in efficiency.
Sweden has been on the forefront on the internet revolution with Posten as a natural mail carrier for domestic web shopping companies giving them an advantage compared to DHL etc in other countries. Posten having closed their post offices and instead allowing grocery stores to operate a post desk is very accessible and easy to use.
It's not easy for global giants like Amazon to penetrate the Swedish market given the maturity of the Swedish market giving Posten a more secure position than in many other countries.
Amazing, imagine if they could share their experiences with PostNord in Denmark.
Closing post offices and relying on people to pick up their own parcels from a grocery store is NOT a good thing for the customer. It defeats the point of a damn postal service. It's like the old American West where a train would show up once a week at a frontier town and everything would be delivered to the general store for people to pick it up.
I've had to deal with PostNord plenty of times sending parcels to friends in Sweden from the UK. It takes a day to get to Sweden then sometimes another week or longer to make it to their local grocery store. They don't always get notifications it's even there, and if it's a bulky item they have to arrange transport to get it because they're several km away. Home delivery as an optional extra is also absurd, and expensive. I send things by DHL now because they actually deliver to the door, but they still sometimes end up being handled by PostNord which slows the whole thing down. DHL are considered to be pretty crap here in the UK too (and Germany, according to several German friends) but are somehow comparatively amazing in Sweden.
The Swedish postal service is garbage. It's ranked 19th in the world. It may save a lot of money but it's a pain in the backside for the people who have to rely on it.
@@TalesOfWar DHL deliver to the door? Considered good in Sweden? Not so much.
@@903lew I said relative lol. They still suck.
@@TalesOfWar not getting it to front door actually has alot of positives. you dont have to be there to get something. and in almost all cases it gets to the grocery store. in germany they have a lot of problems with parcels getting dropped of at neighbors,random stores in the Area or they just place it at the front dor for everyone to take . sometimes even if they are at home and watching the door and door bell
I was one of the team who implemented PRDC, worked at the hub from its conception until 2004 when I took early retirement, I was there for the last day of the TPO service and amazed at the amount of money wasted on the project when they announced the movement back to road and the hub just became a sorting unit for bulk mail ( the advertising rubbish that comes through your door on a Monday)
BR and Royal Mail had set a standard of arrivals had to be within 10 minutes of the booked time. By the ti e EWS took over the performance target was 98% right time arrival, ie if the time table said the arrival was 01:00:30 then the grain had to arrive at that time 98 times out of 100.
One reason the Royal Mail dropped the contract with EWS was the insistence of EWS'chairman Keith Heller that the price being charged for the Railnet services being too low. He want to charge a higher price for the renewed contract. Rumour has it Heller wanted to charge Royal Mail £125 million for the Railnet services, Royak Mail said no. A new offervif £75 million was made, but also turned down. And thus Railnet came go an end.
Ruairidh thanks for all the content over the years and happy Christmas to you 😊
Nothing like a UK rail episode as an extra Christmas treat
Wow, Red Star - I haven't thought of that in over twenty years, but the moment I saw the signage I immediately remembered. Granted that at the time I was too young to know what exactly it was, but that only layered on the mystery to what was at the time for me a fairly infrequent mode of travel (and I'm talking about passenger rail, not being sent by parcel post...)
A classic historical record of modern British business stupidity. Poor management, lack of foresight and selling out to foreign owners by those at the top including politians in dealing with modern needs. How many polluting lorries, air flights etc could be removed if the powers to be had the bottle to tackle this head on. Now that Orion logistics have entered the fray I wish them well. Maybe Royal Mail will rise to the occasion in this modern changing logistical business. Great video and very well presented.
The politicians only care if they get a bung an income stream and a consultancy. In short they only give a buggery about their self enrichment
Excellent, informative and finally explaining why the country bought a small fleet of 30 125MPH Class "67" diesel locomotives. Thanks for the info.
Loving all the vintage 1980s/90s BR footage. Red Star parcels is a real blast from the past! :-D I used to have a RES liveried Hornby Class 90 as a kid when they first came out! What a sad day it was in 2004 when mail by rail ceased. A very shortsighted and un-environmental move that was. It has been nice to see mail by rail making something of a comeback in more recent years, though admittedly still not to the extent that it was back in the '90s.
Happy Christmas to all who prefer Motion History to repeats of Life of Pets and the top 100 songs of the 90's
cant wait to see the class 768 and 326 units out and about they are planned to start around early 2022 really hope there successful and bring more mail back to the railways
I lay the blame for the failure firmly at the door of EWS management. The fact that RM stuck up a contract with GBRf a few months later is telling to what they thought of EWS. Even now in 2021, GBRf come across as a friendly hard working company with a personal touch and great looking loco services, whereas DBS don't.
....and then DBS
EWS were just a bunch of self important wankers hell bent on giving their drivers a hard time to smokescreen the management incompetence.
My Son drives for GBRf - and they come across as just the sort of company that will save the railways.... :)
Always think it's a shame that not only is mail and parcels traffic by rail limited in the UK, you don't get much on the continent either. France built a TGV that was dedicated to mail use, and it even ran a trial to St Pancras after HS1 opened, but it's since been scrapped. Imagine how much air and lorry traffic could be removed if the european high speed network was utilised for mail and parcels?
Merry Christmas Ruairidh and Merry Christmas everyone who watches this too!
I personally know a national RM Manager, and he himself says that 1st class Mail/Parcels is now slower by road & air than it was when Railnet was operating! He says there is every chance of RM shifting back to rail, wholesale, due to the emissions factor to. He is actually pushing for a return to rail & the railways to have minimum 30% of the market share. As he says, "It is likely the only way forward & we should never have left rail in 2004". Turning full circle we hope.
It's always pleasing seeing modern RM workers tossing packages about without a single care...
I missed that bit, can you supply a timestamp?
I just saw dedicated mail workers going about their job in a professional efficient Manor
@@garethrandall6589 There was nothing amiss with the sorting, all very packages were handled very carefully.
hi, great video, great to see a class 302 doing a good service,i remember in the 70s while working at AECltd, a single parcels car used to trundle up and down the line going past our factory,over what we call the iron bridge.great memories and great noise
Once again the Britain's railway infrastructure denying "High Flights" to the prosperity of the rail mode transport eficiency. Very sad having to face such progress obstacles sometimes thought being created on purpose in benefit of road and air sectors.Thank you for another fantastic and informative video.
As I work for Australia Post, I found this video very informative, thank you very much.
Ah! Red Star!
I remember it well… we have a couple of the travelling post office vans at the railway (Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway).
I’m surprised that Amazon hasn’t their own rail parcel delivery service…
Amazon is a taker not a giver so no surprise
@@Isochest One thing you can't argue with is that Amazon are a giver of great customer service. If you bring rail into that equation, then you're going to have problems as Royal Mail found.
@@spacemanclips I disagree. A lot of the stuff they do is tat. As for logistics many Profit conscious companies are turning to it.
Thanks Ruairidh - finding your channel this year has been a real highlight! Happy Christmas!
The best kept secret in the UK is that countries who kept their state run postal service have it great! From Taiwan you can send a letter to the UK for less than you can send the same letter within the UK, and it won't arrive much later either. State run services are good, reliable and cheap. Privatisation was always a lie.
Yes that is why the Soviet Union won the cold war...
@@ralphmillais5237 Both entirely simplistic and black and white statements. When a complex operation but wide-ranging benefit for public good has some profit and some loss areas, privatisation will always leave half of the service in the doldrums as it fails to make any commercial sense, whilst the profit-making side will be priced to oblivion until the highest bidder keeps going bust. Remind you of anything in the UK? On the flip side, public sectors are hugely wasteful and fail to attract the best minds due to a lack of investment from often-self serving politicians. Either solution managed properly would work, but almost always the weak point is humans.
@@sandycheeks7865 Communism will never work no matter who is managing it. Never.
@@ralphmillais5237 have a look at Columbia, they have it pretty good.
Unless you live in the US
that rail system was unique sorting collecting dropping off all on the move, those catchers were class, should be brought back it was art on the move
A friend of mine was one of the Royal Mail managers who made the decision to stop using rail. He told me that the level of service/cost of the contract wasn't really the issue, but there were two other factors which were really outside the control of the rail industry:
1) Royal Mail was increasingly using automated sorting at its sorting offices. However mail sent by rail still had to be sorted by hand as the sorting machines wouldn't fit in railway carriages, which was a considerable expense. Some consideration was given to machine sorting before putting the mail on the trains, but this negated the principal advantage of sending mail by rail - the time saving of being able to sort on the move.
2) Sending mail by rail tied RM to having distribution centres located close to major railway stations. This land was valuable, and a considerable asset tied up which could be sold off and cheaper sites used instead.
Damn...I see.
Point one makes perfect sense.
Thank you for posting this. I never knew that British Rail used to be part of the logistics too for the UK.... Fascinating !!!
It goes to show that.. how once.. if you are not nimble enough.. then the free market will take you out. I have lived in the UK for so long... and I did not even realised that we had our own internal logistics company. Because it did not change inline with the car and lorry transportation methods.. and then other businesses wanted to expand. It became obsolete. I mean.. the fact that.. there are now more retail companies.. like Tescos who is now reusing some of the railway to move fresh goods and things like that, ought to be, and should be an actual good move. I am a bit shocked that, I never knew of this info !....
Actually, the PACS (Propelling Advisory Control System) vehicles did not work the same way as a DBSO. With a DBSO, the driver still controls the propelling locomotive at the rear using controls in the DBSO cab. With PACS, the driver in the cab only had control of the brake whilst the driver on the propelling locomotive followed instructions as to how fast to propel the train, being either 5, 15, 25 or 40 mph max speed via a switch in the PACS cab. This was because trains leaving the PRDC heading either north on the WCML or onto the western region needed to propel the trains from the terminal to one of the reception roads outside the terminus, or the turnback siding at Kensal Green. Once the propelling movement had finished, the driver in the PACS vehicle shut down the brake, switched the tail lights on and removed his master key and the driver of the propelling locomotive took over to drive the train forward.
Could have said more Andy but never the less a good comment . I still have the bell/buzzer code label l got in '97 redundancy was the a move to far . Still it was the best to work for . Sadly missed . M.M. Res. Bristol ,Barton Hill .
@@mikemayer4303 I could have too. I was a driver at Wembley RES from 1994 to 2000. The rot started when the PRDC opened in Sept 1996. When EWS took over in 1997 it really went downhill. Been at FL for the last 22 years and although the work is not glamorous by any means it's still a good job and I don't come home feeling drained. I'd be a mug to want to work for anyone else.
Well researched and very comprehensive. I think we will have to see the accommodation of further parcel traffic on rail.
Another victim of rail privatisation. , Like Red Star parcels , BREL and the asset stripping of BR land. The growth in rail travel would have happened anyway , without all the new livery , countless uniforms and rebranding .
Ive been retired for some years now but remember the mail train and sack catchers .
There was also a newspaper paper train that ran from Liverpool street
The papers were sorted and bundled then dropped on the platforms for all the newspaper shops along the route
I worked at Bristol Parkway royal mail train hub till it shut down, my absolute favourite job in my 34 year royal mail career, gutted when it closed.
We got a lot of these pottering through Doncaster Preston Crewe Warrington and elsewhere. One was scrapped after a collision in 1996.
Another enjoyable video although it's hard to listen to the short sighted BR and privatised industry decisions that created the large decline in rail traffic. I hope things improve in the future. A video of the life of North British including their attempts at diesel traction would be an interesting video. I have a soft spot for the class 21, 22, 41 and 43 classes. It's a shame none have been preserved although one came very close.
I hope postal trains carrying letters and parcels come back especially parcels
The story of how NBL entered the diesel age and failed would be a tale worth telling...
It was hardly "enjoyable. It was utterly depressing.
@@ianpow4563 Indeed, same with the Class 15s, Metro-Vick Co-Bos (Class 28) and the Class 17 Claytons. Three classes that are represented by sole examples these days in preservation, the former pair are ofc undergoing thorough restorations to working order (it will be a red letter day when their restorations are complete, bet ya bottom dollar). Just a shame that none of the NBL mainline diesels survived, though as Simon notes above, one (a Class 22; D6319 iirc) was very nearly saved.
I'm hoping that freight at least is better now because private providers actually go chasing business. Did nationalised BR ever cold-call potential customers to try to get them to shift to rail?
Great to see examples of your own video included.
Very interesting history which chopped and changed as technology and convenience became king. Great video, thank you.
Other big wastes of money by Civil Servants regarding UK rail.
1) Scottish Rail Sleeper service via the Channel Tunnel. The Carriages were built and parked up for years, as the original service only ran to Waterloo Station.
2) APT - P (which stood for Prototype, not Production) £430 Million at the time the programme was cancelled. Sadly only the one at Crewe Rail Museum survives. All the units were destroyed at the C.F. Booth, Scrapyard in Rotherham. He left one set for ages. But it went.
Royal Mail trains are still very active, the Princess Royal Distribution Centre at Park Royal in North London is very busy. A new rail head is due to begin service at DIRFT at junction 18 of the M1 when the new Royal Mail National Distribution Centre opens in 2023 which replaces the old NDC at DIRFT.
Thank you for this highly informative and well produced video.
Kind of sad how even adjusted for inflation, the money spent here is a drop in the ocean compared to other wasteful spending on the railways since, and all at least some way tied to how much of a shambles privatisation has been.
It was a deliberate 'win-win' shambles, with any 'losses'/investment costs to be dumped on the taxpayer (how else ?).
The "Privatisation" was like all "innovative measures" by the politicians: Namely to steal from the Taxpayer and put the loot into the pockets of those who pay a million for a crappy speech or set them up a money laundering and lackey recruiting "business" enterprise. An "institute for global change"🤢🤮
Hey could be worse could be Horizon IT
@@nathanielhill5887 Yep, a waste of a billion pounds AND a twenty year long series of lives ruined culminating in the thing everyone accused of being a bug filled mess being proven a bug filled mess AND the PO losing even more cash now the false convictions were quashed and compensation was in order. Hooray!
@@Del_S and the taxpayer footing the bill for compensation
Great vid, I've seen a 325 parked up at Low Fell several times and often wondered about how they were used/came to be.
The 325 you saw at Low Fell operates a daily service to PRDC in Willesden North London departing each weekday evening at 21:50. A corresponding working arrives early each morning into Low Fell from PRDC.
They transport direct containerised mail no Royal Mail staff travel on the train.
Thank you for your fantastic and entertaining transport vids. 👍🏻
This was a great video. First one I have seen from your channel, very informative
The Mail by Rail exhibition I developed at the NRM was one of the most interesting projects I was involved with at the museum. We even managed to get the Class 325 concept cab as an exhibit. I wonder what happened to it.
My dad used to work on the TPO trains out of Peterborough, we lived on the outskirts of Norwich so I’d travel by train to Peterborough with my mum to see his train go passed on Saturdays☺️
I’ve been considering building a small 00 model of a Royal Mail depot in his memory, as my dad passed away in 2010 after a very short battle with cancer.
This would have been so good for the environment if they’d kept it, and probably cheaper than aircraft too. A huge shame
@@Dr-Shite-Kicker I'm really hoping that a rail tunnel between Northern Ireland and Great Britain gets built. Rail services are more cost effective the longer the distance travelled, so in theory you'd be able to run freight to and from NI (and even ROI) all the way to eastern Europe while avoiding two ferry crossings. Would have to dual guage the NI routes, but that would get more freight on to rail in NI too.
If HS2 does get completed and the increased capacity it should bring I could see a re-emergence of swapping lorries for trains.
or maybe just put the lorries on the train.
HS2 has been truncated
I remember seeing former redundant (Southport line) platforms at Preston being brought back into use by RES with signs displaying "r e s Preston".
Fun Fact about mail sorting on trains as you said can be traced back to 1838 although the first mail carriage was a converted Horsebox.
enjoy and look forward to all your vlogs they make my day do have a great 2022 my friend
I used to call those class 325s the "ghost" trains as you'd *think* you had heard them entering or passing through a station but there would no sight of it.
Excellent video many thanks and a happy Christmas to you
Mail trains still run daily to Scotland from London and the new Hub under construction at Crick has a rail line being put in at the moment
Thanks for a very interesting presentation.
The Class 325s could also be loco hauled on non-electrified lines. It was truly a go anywhere train.
Another superb video. I would like to share your optimism and put my money on a rail renaissance.
4:02 "from 1991, virtually all Saturday movements of letters and packages were transferred from rail to road under the Roadrunner scheme" - and the Leyland DAF lorry has an ironically appropriate number plate ending in "OUT" 😄
Fascinating history, nicely put together video too
The problem is as soon or once you have got rid of the mail by delivery ..you get the same amount again ..so you need to get to the root of the problem , and that is not to spend vast amounts of money on trying to get rid of it once you have it ..you have to prevent it in the first place, the mail right from the start ,you have to snip it at the bud , put a stop to it before it gets too huge a problem to deal with.
This channel deserves more subscribers.
Honestly it would make so much sense to have done it properly.
Theres a Royal Mail sorting centre at Filton, if that had been relocated to Parkway they could have sorted there loaded onto a train and gone straight to another sorting centre at East Midlands airport or London for example. The TPO concept wouldn’t work but effectively using trains as lorry replacements would work.
It makes sense to combine mail with rolling road (ROLA) logistics maybe not with a dedicated fleet but at least using spare train space where possible. Loads of house removals etc should be done this way
It would prevent mail having to be handled and unloaded multiple times and would reduce the risk of damage or loss. And reduced need for forklifts etc saving money, time, resources and the environment
Another great documentary. Thank you.
Hard to know how Royal Mail can compete with the Amazon model of local distribution centres and Amazon vans touring the local area making deliveries. The demise of the Post Office was always on the books with state pensions being paid directly into the bank, email instead of letters and online banking being used to pay bills.
Post Office Counters and Royal Mail are seperate companies, the demise of the local post office is not a concern of Royal Mail who is introducing parcel post boxes and online payment for parcel delivery with collection from the senders house, letters of course can be collected from regular post boxes
@@andreww2098 perhaps that separation will be the undoing of both. Rather like Beeching closing the feeder branches and thus losing traffic carried on the main lines.
What all have in common is third rate management and short sighted politicians in charge.
@john Clarke It does look like RM is finally getting its act together? Why the hell has it taken so long to start home collections of parcels and digital stamps? RM does have a lot of trust capital left, but POCL only just stopped criminalising their biggest stakeholders.
And Don’t start me on the Crown offices mouldering away ,empty , across the land.
@@simoncroft9792 most of RM problems are the result of it being originally owned by the Government, the company made a lot of money in the past, most of which was skimmed off by the government of the day, made little difference which party was in power, they only decided to privatise it once profits dropped largely due to law changes around pension funds and falling letter revenues, a century of under investment in the company has led to a lot of obsolete practices and methods still being used.
various restrictions on services permitted have now been lifted due to the fact it is now a traded company and not a government monopoly, so RM can now do what the other courier firms do, it is just taking time to get into place due to the lack of infrastructure from the lack of investment previously!
@@simoncroft9792 Our local Crown Office became a Poundland, appropriately enough. The PO is now a "contract" operation in WH Smith. The separation of Royal Mail Group from Post Office Counters Limited, with the privatisation of the first but ongoing Government subsidy for the second, was entirely the work of politicians. Surprise, surprise. Too many voters were complaining that their village Post Offices were being closed (because they made a loss, and very little mail came through them anyway).
@@simoncroft9792 Crown Offices became uneconomical; remember the old 'Dog Licences'? They cost 37.5p each, yet the Post Office charged £10 to administer. Back in the 80's the Crown Office staff could handle over 100 different types of transaction, and all 'balancing' was handled manually (hence more expensive staff were essential). Today, automation, and with a vastly reduced number of different transactions handled, less skilled assistants were required. Crown Offices often had 10 or more counter positions, but lately not enough customers to fill them, hence it was logical to farm out the remaining work to other cheaper methods of working (WH Smith, Co-op, etc.)
Nice commentary on these hidden services... thank you.
Love the videos! A motion history of the new EWS fleet would be loved. However do what you're doing!
Interesting that they're still running mail trains in the UK. On much of the continent, mail trains have disappeared, including the rather spectacular French TGV La Poste.
As a retired postie I used loaded and unloaded the Dover/Manchester it was an job to get the Yorkie trucks of
Fascinating film, great work
Great video and Merry Christmas!
@@ENCTrainspotting you too!
There is a rumour that out there lost somewhere is a complete Hermes train full of parcels
I've been to Lichfield Trent Valley and seen a Royal Mail train rushing past. :D
Although it is pleasing to note that the 15 Class 325 units, over the course of this decade, are due to be fitted with ETCS.
Maybe so, but don't forget they said that about the 365s...
@@fetchstixRHD either way, Network Rail is paying for it and there is a significant amount of work going into the 325s.
ROG have started using 319s but at the moment till driver training is completed all working are Class 57 or Class 37 hauled. This started just before Christmas
The last sentence is actually quite telling. If rail-based mail transport is to return what is the betting that an entire new fleet of trains will be found necessary, resulting in yet more financial wastage
We need for the government to have not scrapped the eastern leg of HS2 for this to be a genuinely practical thing to do, given the massive slack it would free up on the East Coast Main Line and the rest of the network there. The south east is ram packed with freight services because that's where most of it ends up at the docks coming from mainland Europe. Instead they canned it, but still want to put more inter city trains on the existing network and "upgrade" it. HS2 IS the upgrade, it takes those inter city high speed trains away from the existing tracks so they can be used for slower, local services that don't need such a massive gap between them for safety. Got to love the British government, they hate spending money but end up spending more, taking longer and resulting in a worse product at the end of it all because they can BS the voters by saying it's "cheaper!" because it's the same amount spread out over a longer period.
These are really good video essays thanks for what you do!
Great way to make a video, apparently no way to run a railroad. Merry xmas!
Southend Victoria Station still has its rail mail platform
Informative and interesting video as always. Hope you had a lovely Christmas and have a prosperous New year 😊
Who noticed John Cleese at 3:45 😂. “It is not a dead postal service, "...And when I bought into it in the late 1980’s , you assured me that its lack of movement was due to it being tired and shagged out after a long delivery”
It’s funny to think the UK was still putting money into mail trains when I was born, when mail trains in the US were cancelled when my dad was a kid.
Cheers Ruairidh , merry Christmas! 🎅🎄🎁
I know for one that one of the PCV's has been preserved at the mid norfolk railway and many lie abandoned around the North to be precise.
There's always one sat at the Gateshead yards, hasn't moved for a long time
Also I know near Watford there are some old RES liveried Mail vans sat in storage
I was a station postman first at Paddington then at PRDC at stonebridge Park happy days.
Thanks Ruairiidh, I know I am a fan of the great guitarist of the same name Rory Gallagher, My family are from Quilty Co. Clare.
It seemed to me like this is another pioneering project that had the plug pulled on it far too early and was implemented without enough pre-planning. Its like a british pasttime, investing in worthwhile ventures then getting scared of the cost and backing out too early.
Just to add, the PCVs were not true 'push-pull'. There was no control over the throttle on the locomotive, it just illuminated a set of lights on the driving desk. The loco still required a driver to add power/shut off in accordance with the number of lights illuminated. The driver of the PCV did control the brake though. It was called PACS (Propelling and Control System) and was subject to 40mph max.