Which series should we make videos about - His Dark Materials, Dune, Lord of the Rings, The Expanse? Get a free audiobook with an Audible trial: www.audible.com/asx
the expanse please love your vids and thats my new fav show cant wait to see where it goes im saving reading the books till after but you can tell me about them for days
One thing that you didn't mention. Ozymandius actually created TWO giant psychic squids and sent the other one into Moscow so that neither side could lay blame at the foot of the other.
Alt ending: Ozzy: they cant blame each other for this! Ussr: IT WAS CANADA! Usa: IT WAS CHINA! Ozzy: Wait? WHAT! Why would they think that!? Thats an incredibly dumb rationale. It makes no sense what idiot would do that!? Dr. Manhattan: Its human goverments Ozzy, what did you expect? Ozzy: ...(sigh) touchè.
"Manhattan gets falsely accused of giving people cancer, and his girlfriend Laurie leaves him for an Owl man. So Manhattan fucks off to Mars and builds a sand castle." This sentence is amazing. The flow and expression of it. So much going on xD
I mean America invent not perserve the European have thousand of tear to develop and they see the collapse of an super power like the roman first hand, the European perserve stuff like king and peasant untill like the 20th Century just look at Victorian London,while the American fought it they try to not be held by titles and royalty so they need optimism to fight. While many European back then either work everyday with limited pay while the royalty are free and happy so many because pessimistic, the British Saw child labor, 2 world wars' and a collapsing empire while the American gain more land and an economic boom, also the founding of the USA is based around the optimism that you could have a better live there than Europe TL;DR: America is founded and need optimism while the European have many thing to be pessimistic about
What makes the graphic novel “impossible to adapt” is that the medium is so integrated into the storytelling. With a comic panel structure, you can see the past, present, and future at the same time like Dr Manhattan. And the structure is utilized to communicate pacing in ways a sequential film cannot.
Excellent analysis! It is like how Undertale can’t be adapted either. That game is so integrated in its medium through its themes and story that something always fades in adaptation.
When Ozymandias is in the 'Christ pose' cheering, I think the background shows Alexander and the Gordian knot. Apparently the knot was uber complex and whoever could bring the two ends together would conquer Asia. Alexander doesn't bother untying the knot but just cuts it with his sword. I think Moore is probably trying to draw the comparison between Alexander and the Gordian knot and Ozymandias' plan with the squid. Both are violent solutions to nuanced problems.
Both are violent solutions to nuanced problems … true. But both are also effective solutions. Alexander is credited as "solving" the Gordian Knot when no one else could. Ozymandias clearly prevents nuclear Armageddon and saves the world … at least for the time being (depending on which random crank file article the goofy newsboy decides to publish). Like you I also noticed the Gordian Knot motif behind Ozymandias during his moment of triumph. I agree it seems like a pretty clear analogy for Ozy's master plan. Interestingly, it brought back the idea that he was a modern Alexander the Great … he had originally started his career by "walking in the footsteps of Alexander" but if you remember he discovered Rameses II at some point and decided Rameses II was a far greater leader than Alexander and modelled himself after that guy. Hence the Egyptian temple style of his Antarctic base, rather than a Macedonian temple of the sort that Alexander the Great would have built.
I like the idea that even if Rorschach’s journal isn’t published, the “utopia” would eventually collapse anyway. At the end of the story it’s revealed that writing negative stories about Russia has been outlawed by the U.S. in order to keep the peace after having seen the horrible outcome of potential nuclear war in New York. But some citizens still harbor the same disdain for what Russia stands for, and without addressing the actual ideological differences and conflicts that led to them to nuclear war in the first place, they’re destined to head there again.
@yomomma5086 That is seriously not what I said. I said that you can't take control of the media and force everyone to be favorable of a country with which the U.S. has had decades of conflict and disagreement, and with which the U.S. very recently came to the brink of nuclear annihilation. Forcefully removing the outlet to criticize that country is only going to cause tensions to grow in secret and eventually boil over. As well, I'm not a cold war historian, but its clear in the Watchmen universe that dislike for Russia's actions and communism is a sentiment held by every day citizens, not just politicians and 'pockets of distrust'. That sentiment doesn't just disappear, and while no population openly wants nuclear war, the U.S. and Russia conflict already did build up to nuclear war once, to say it could escalate to that point again is not unreasonable.
Adrian asks Manhattan "In the end, I did the right thing?" Manhattan responds "in the end? nothing ends Adrian nothing ever ends" This should tell you that Veidt's morals and empire of peace will not last long, it will crumble to time same as the empire of the great pharaoh Ozymandias buried in sand, Manhattan has seen it all.
I always find it funny (and a little concerning) whenever people say that Rorschach is their favorite character in Watchmen because he's "a badass" and "a true hero," when he is very clearly depicted as an unhinged psychopath.
True. But he is no more a psychopath than Ozymandias, whose evil is sadly often sugar coated and de-emphasized because he did it for such and such reasons. Or Dr. Manhattan, who - if we are to judge him by "real life" standards like we to with Rorschach - is an unstable monster, constantly degenerating into something less and less human. And no one can tell when he is so far gone, that his priorities are completely separate, or even opposite from, humans. A bigot who breaks the fingers of thieves and murderers is, by comparison, nothing to get riled up over.
@@carljosephfriedrich8919 Certainly. But my point is not to say that Rorschach is more or less a bad person in comparison to Ozymandias, a man who killed 3 million people and traumatized millions more. My point is that Rorschach is not the kind of person I would deem worthy of idolizing. Yes, he has a strict moral code, which I suppose is admirable and he kicks the shit out of people, which looks cool, but calling him the "true hero" of the story rubs me the wrong way. In fact, I don't really see any characters in here who I would say should be idolized. The end of the story even tries to cast doubt on whether Ozy did "what was necessary." Ultimately, nobody really has the moral high ground in this situation.
@@jellyjeffrey7350 I think your position is the right one. I agree that Rorschach can not be seen as someone to be idolized. Concerning those who call him their favorite character; I think they unwittingly ignore some of his terrible traits, while "honing in" on his vigilante traits - traits and actions which are often somewhat admired by "the common man", such as vengeance against criminals, moral certitude, willingness to sacrifice oneself, etc. I certainly recognize these as traits I can respect, although Batman is the better incarnation of them. I'm also suspecting that the Watchmen movie has affected some of the perception of Rorschach. Its portrayal of the character was quite a bit less of an misanthrope, with a stronger focus on his actions as "cool". To me, Rorschach is a more adept version of a Charles Bronson character. All his characters are basically middle-aged/old men, using extreme violence to get vengeance on a person or group which has wronged him. Vigilantes like these will always appeal to our desire to see evil-doers treated harsher than what they get. But of course, Rorschach is a quite twisted version of this;)
Shows how right-wing our society is that a character like him can be seen as heroic. A literal communist can write a satire of objectivism and people will take it as praise.
@@burner1303 I think someone viewing the character as heroic is separate from the political tendencies of our time. The traits in the him that are most often seen as positive, are traits which people on both sides of the spectrum may value. Arguing that it's simply a right-wing misinterpretation (lack of knowledge, etc.), paints a picture of a monolithic left and right where no opinions differ between in-group members. Such a perspective would fit Rorschach more than real life;) If a certain human desire for vengeance against criminals is completely absent from the left, then we have turned into a brain dead mush. If the right are the only ones who value focus and single minded determination, then they are correct when they call us spineless. If a clear moral compass, and the strength to endure pain for those morals, are not on the left - then the left will die. And in the end, it's completely irrelevant what political "bent" Alan Moore has. If you portray a character with traits and values, they are going to be liked or disliked by different people. For legitimate reasons. I dislike Ayn Rand, and I dislike the characters in her books. I think many comic book creators are naive, overly flamboyant and annoying - and yet I like the characters they create - when there's something to them. My appreciation of such characters can not be limited to what inner political message said creators had at the time. That would be against human nature. Sorry for the wall of text. Have a nice night!
I just love how purely american comic books are so optimistic and colourful and european authors like Alan Moore and Garth Ennis create things like "Watchmen", "Judge Dredd" and "The Boys".
@@inigobantok1579 The snake god thing isn't the weird part. Alan Moore doesn't believe that the god he worships is real; it's well known that Glycon was a snake puppet used to con Ancient Romans into giving their money and sex to priests. Moore just says he worships an obvious hoax snake because he finds it just as likely as someone creating the universe.
I wasn't sure how this channel would transition after the ending of Game of Thrones. However I'm confident that you can make literally any subject interesting. Thank you, keep up the content.
It is 2009, a watchmen movie is being made. It is 1986 I'm opening the book, 33 years have passed, HBO is making a show. It is 2003 a watchmen movie has been declared "unfilmable." It is 1987 I'm finishing the last chapter.
Time out. I've seen the 2009 movie, but never read the comics, but this vid basically says they are pretty much identical. So why were comic fans so pissed off at the movie? 😮
@@mainsmain lol l never got the whole giant squid part. Some ppl have said the squid works because it was a "random" attack, so that would unite the world, but a Dr Manhattan attack doesn't work, because he's a US creation, so the world would blame America. I don't buy it.
@@KoolKeithProductions because half of the said in the video is not portrayed on the film, the tiny details are the most important to it and Snyder only took what was thrown in the face like he didn't even understood the comic. It was a good movie tho, just not as deep
@@julda8080 ok, but what important details from the comic were removed from the movie? Because l never read the comic, but when the HBO show came out that was a sequel to the comic, l still understood everything because of the movie. The only thing l had to get used to was the raining squids lol
I remember having this in my middle school's library. I don't know why but Korean educators probably didn't know how bloody this series was but it was there. So I had the opportunity to read it. And what a blast it was. It's only in recent years I've come to realize that it was a really deep book.
HBO: .......... now bout that. (Proceeds to write one of the most bizarre seasons of television in recent memory, slap a Watchmen coat of paint on it and shove it out the door.)
@@spaceclown7650 It is woke, but at the same time it isn't. Just like the original comic that talked about 80's problems, the series does the same, referencing every single problem in America, in both sides without ever showing who is right and who is wrong. Everyone is an asshole at the end and all are hypocrites.
One time he ate a slice of my pizza, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, I felt powerless, he didn't even asked, I felt broken as each crum pushed my tearing up anxiety, in the end, he just wanted where the bathroom was, he tortured me to know where the bathroom was, why!? 😢🤧
@@collectingfilms he’s a man, psychologically disturbed by sex, having delusions about their mothers that have psychologically affected them and their interpretation of the world that they’ve become jaded to in similar ways. Both of them think that the world is a disgusting filthy place and would do something about it if they could
"Manhattan gets falsely accused of giving people cancer and his girlfriend, Laurie, leaves him for an owl man. So Manhattan fucks off to Mars and builds a sandcastle." 10/10
I never understood Watchmen... but now that I’ve seen the story I’m just shocked on how much creativity went into these comics. It’s so abstract but beautiful, something really different from the typical superheroes/heroes
Another meaning is that time is cyclical. Everything in the comic refers to a clock. The word Watchmen can be related to the word watchmaker. Jon Osterman was a watchmaker, and the hydrogen symbol can also refer to a clock at twelve. The order of the panels also refers to a clock, and the comic has 12 episodes. The entire comic has no splash pages, except the first 6 pages in the last episode, that symbolizes the chimes of a bell at twelve o'clock. What happens after twelve o'clock? The cycle begins again. Kovac's sign of "the end is nigh" is at the beginning of the comic, because it's already past twelve o'clock, and it also means that Adrian's entire master plan will be in vain, and maybe another disaster will happen in the future. Since de first page we are reading Rorschach's notes, because everything is done and he is already dead. Just saying. Nice video.👍
Same goes for the comic within the comic: All about time running out; intersecting the main narrative like a full hour bell chime. Also: Foreshadowing the violent "solution" to the doomsday clock, as doom to the town people is to be prohibited literally over a heap of dead bodies (the raft made out of corpses).
The way Alan moore uses the book too put us in dr Manhattans shoes was genius. He can turn the pages but he can't change the ink. Alan moore and Steven king are both creative geniuses
@@PorungaSan even when Disney is not involved, the internet makes sure disney is the villain. Essentially DC started a new line called doomsday clock set after watchmen
Doomsday Clock, aka, Geoff Johns shouts, "Look what you made me do" at a Alan Moore who rolls his eyes and says, "I was telling you not to do it, champ."
Doomsday Clock is an incredible and significantly better story. Ozy's plan was never going to work, it was always a temporary false peace. Doomsday Clock just showed what was always going to happen.
Ozymandias reminded me of the statement: "Anyone who is willing to give his own life for his cause is even more likely to give someone else's life for that cause."
That sounds wise, but think about the first responders on a day like 9/11. Or any firefighter who runs into a burning building to save someone. Maybe those aren't "causes" in the sense the quote meant, but the point is that selfless courage does exist.
Great video, but I was surprised that you didn't expand more on the Comedian. I know he wasn't a major character, but he influenced a lot of the other characters in a profound way. You already covered his relationship with Laurie, but his relationship with Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan is also worth exploring. The Comedian's take on the world being a joke was an important theme of the story.
He also completely fucked up Adrian's worldview, which drove him to do what he did. The Comedian is amazing and is more central to this story than you realize when you first finish the comic.
I like how the symbolism of the bloodied smiley face is show both at the start of the comic and at its end. It makes it feel as if the sory has gone full circle. You start with murder, you end with murder and nothing ever changes no matter what you do
What I love about Dr. Manhattan's origin story is that Moore acknowledges it's not gonna sound like anything new or groundbreaking in the comic medium, but still tells it and focuses on the hopelessness of Jon's entrapment in the machine to tell it well. Imagine you come back to a room to get your coat, but the doors close behind you. At first, you treat it as a joke, though the horrified reactions of your friends say otherwise before you yourself utterly panic when you find you're going to die now in this tiny space and there's nothing to be done about it. After a few minutes of dreading, every atom in the room disintegrates, including the ones that make you. The most hopeless situation.
Interesting fact: the murder of Kitty Genovese, which motivated Rorshach, was also one of the events that motivated the MacManus brothers (from The Boondock Saints) to kill criminals.
It was also debunked (the idea that no one intervened). There weren't many people in the vicinity, and most of them either didn't hear a thing or thought it was a drunk quarrel or something like that and dismissed it. Some called the police, unsure about what they had witnessed, some called some friends and decided to call the police on their advice. When the attacker came back after grabbing something to mask his face, she had a punctured lung and apparently couldn't have been able to shout, she was also out of view from anyone. When people realized what truly happened it was too late
An important thing to note about Watchmen’s approach to realism is that, contrary to what its name suggests, it’s not an accurate representation of reality. It’s an accurate representation of what reality would be like with superheroes. Yet a good chunk of the dark edgelord shit inspired by it fundamentally misses that point.
The Boys were good for a while precisely until they kept going in line with the "realistic dark edgelord shit". As soon as they decided to go full on Supernatural mode, we got the ending of S3
@@albertwesker6153 yep, its the reason why I ran away from the show, because of the comic. It's not "Superheroes as complex humans with their own goals, desires, ideals etc." It's just a guy who hates superheroes and decided to make them the most edgiest, pieces of crap, scum, who do the most vilest and inhuman things and just uses shock value every time. It was just plainly superheroes bad in the worst most and most gory way possible to the point it doesn't make sense (did vought pick all their heroes from Prisons and asylums!?!?). It pains me that it gets the attention it has cause it is horrible but eh.
@@bossman0116 well one reason the show gets some much attention is because they made it a satire of superheroes and society. Another reason is because of those terrible sigma male memes, people see homelander as a sigma male even though he’s a deranged psychopath. While I do like the show I get what you mean, I think I and other people liked it was because it was different from the other superhero stuff at the moment. But yeah the watchmen is the best for a “realistic” look on superheroes.
3:13 this panel of Rorschach choosing to spare the landlady because of her kids being there is one of those little moments I wish they’d included in the adaptation. It shows Roschach, as awful as he can be, IS complex and capable of making genuinely moral and somewhat heartfelt decisions. Edit: more Watchmen please
I think it was because he lost his innocence as a child and the event that drove him mad was the death of a child. Children are the only people he feels empathy towards.
One of the things you skipped over was how much character the Comedian is given, even, as you say, being the most evil character (although I’d argue Veidt is less human). Like one of the things that always fucked with me when I read that book is how he cries when he discovers Veidt’s plan - after all the horrible things he’s done, the war crimes he’s laughed at while committing them, Veidt’s calculated coldness breaks through to his humanity, and the dam of comedy he’s built and maintained around his emotions for decades comes crashing down. I think he even cries and says something like “that’s too fucked up, that’s not funny,” which gets exactly to the core of his callous “sense of humor” as a way to dull the pain a life of horrors inflicts on him. And yet he doesn’t report it, and instead waits patiently to be murdered, like all he really wants at that point is for his personal suffering to end. Fugged up.
I think it's also worth pointing out that for all Veidt's intelligence, the person who realized and pointed out the problem in the first place was not Veidt, it was the Comedian, whose brutal sort-of-comedic delivery jolted Veidt out of his complacency ("you'll be the smartest man on the cinder"). His irreverent approach to the world let him cut through to the guts of issues.
@@christiaanbruin4989 No he didn't. He was talking to both of them, but Ozymandias was already going with the whole "smartest man in the world" schtick; that particular line was spoken to him. Ozymandias was left looking thoughtfully at the burned map, and I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated that that was what got him thinking about the issue.
dark humor is a way to cope, and the comedian used his dark humor to ignore his iwn evil. but there was no humor in ozymandias' plan, it was just banal evil. that got to him, because he couldnt run from it through jokes.
not even finished the video yet but these edits on the comics and sliding from relevant panels to the next is very smooth and easy to follow love this format
Watchmen has so many messages that it is really difficult to sum it all up in a 17 minute video. But you did a great job at describing the ones that talk about morality.
It was a good brief analysis, but there are deeper elements. Like, how The Comedian is essentially the blueprint for The Joker in the Killing Joke. I say this because The Comedian's nihilistic p.o.v. is very similar to Alan Moore's version of the joker. Or the significance of time. The vigilantes evolved from the Minutemen, to the Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan's father was a watchmaker, and he was on the path to following his father's footsteps until his fathered learned that time is relative. His understanding of the machinery of a clock, allowing him to rebuild his body. The whole of Dr. Manhattans existential crisis relates to his inability to control time. He's really just going through the motions, but isn't exactly a God. He's even skeptical that there is one, but the nature of his existence implies there is a god, or watchmaker. The fact that even someone like him with God-like powers, has no agency, or free will over his life shows that he and the other characters exist within a clockwork universe. Rorschach's mask does represent morality, but I feel like duality is an even better way to describe it, as duality is a major theme of the comics. Arguably the most depressing character is called the Comedian. There's a lot more, like Hollis Mason's story about his father's boss, one of his funniest memories also being one of his saddest but I'll stop here. I feel like the best way to describe the comic is that it is a character study of different heroes trying to cope with their own existential crisis. Each one's relationship with God, or their lack of a belief in God, greatly shaping who they are.
P W, some of his points kinda didn’t feel right with me, I read the book only once and I got different vibes. I’m gonna read it again and see where I leave off 👍
Reading Dr Manhatten's background chapter in particular blows me away every time. I can't believe how clever, but understandable, but fun, but philosophical, it all is. It's one of the best things I've ever read. Totally stacks up against great novels. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker.
@@johnnydkota5709 It definitely is, and I'm not hating on the video. Just saying its such a great comic that there are layers that go even deeper. When you put your heart into something like Alan Moore clearly has, you definitely have themese in mind, and youre trying to figure how best to convey those themes. So i half agree with what you said. A big part of it is subjective, and the other is the writer's intention. Some of what i said I feel confident saying that was what he intended. Still gave your post a thumbs up though, so to be clear this isn't intended to be an attack on you comment :)
@@bravobear1844 if you wanna get back into the comics, besides reading them, I suggest you also check out the motion comics on youtube. It's done really well, and covers more than the film did, as it's set up like the comics meaning each video is like reading one watchmen comic. You miss out on a lot of the text, like hollis mason's book intro, the black freighter, some stuff of night owl, Ozzymandius's p.o.v. on choice and his intelligence, but all in all a fun way to revisit the story. The voice acting is meh, but doesnt take away from it IMO and animation is actually really impressive.
Same here Doc Same here. If I was Manhattan I would be everywhere but here. Andromeda.. Jupiter.. float through Saturn's Rings.. explore whatever the hell the Great Attractor is..
I ventured this far down in the comments looking for someone to say just this... because the omission of that detail is the one thing that really bothered me about this synopsis. Maybe because it was too obvious?
Paul Boyd It also kinda bothered me he didn’t mention Rorschach’s mask, where he got the material from (Kitty Genovese dropped it off at the cleaners, made from an experimental Veidt material) or that it is constantly changing, but symmetrical like a Rorschach blot
Watching videos like this really make me grateful for the direction that the RUclips algorthim is seemingly taking. Video essays about comics, events, shows, and various miscellaneous topics with multi hour long runtimes make me happy to see that people's passions are being highlighted, and the results speak for themselves. This video was truly a beautiful and concise explanation of a very popular comic (and the 2019 watchmen explanation made my jaw drop to say the least). Looking forward to more of this quality content. +1 subscriber
This is what Alan Moore said about people that unironically like Rorschach: "I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?’”
Rorschach is one of my favorite characters in all of comics, but I don't actually identify with him aside from his complete devotion to the truth, "even in the face of armageddon." While he does have some badass totally Punisher-esque moments that I do enjoy, I mostly like him because he's a very interesting character, much more complex than most superheroes are written.
@@matt6223 Alan Moore is definitely an asshole, just as much as he is a brilliant writer. He's smug beyond compare and has previously picked fights with other authors over all sorts of tedious shit, including accusing Grant Morrison of ripping him off when Grant's story in question actually came out before his own. Of-course Rorschach is the most likeable character in the comic, he's the only one who still does the principled work of a hero: he intervenes in crimes and saves innocent people. When Nite Owl prevents a mugging later he does it for cheap sexual thrills, but Rorschach is doing it because it's the right thing to do. That basic morality is missing from the rest of the cast. He's a victim of abuse and neglect, he's lonely, he's isolated... and Alan Moore thinks we're NOT going to identify with him? Plus, the fucking guy gets all the best scenes. The fight in the prison canteen, the interviews with the psychologist, the Kitty Genevese back story... all the best monologues gets assigned to him. Of-course he's the best part of the story. It's hysterical that Alan Moore doesn't understand that.
Matt it categorically would not be better. If people shared his morality, you would have lynchings in the streets for minor, petty crimes. Or punishments for open sexuality, with people being branded as degenerates. Maybe you want to live in such a world, but personally, I believe in fair trials, freedom of expression and the fact that morality has many grey areas, very few things are truly black and white.
I always hated that character especially seeing he had no powers but somehow was faster than a bullet and take on Rorshach and owl easily at the same time. I wonder if Moore made him the worst character on purpose to add to the fact he was behind everything
I’ve honestly always preferred the movie version of Ozymandias’ plan. Seemed like it was more believable as to why world leaders would stop the Cold War, and gave a better reason for Manhattan to leave.
I thought the squid was better, and the movie lost something for blaming it on Manhattan instead. Sure, Manhattan as a scapegoat is more narratively compact, since his work on energy is a plot thread brought up earlier in the movie, but it loses something from the book, from the sheer cartoonishness of an evil genius monologuing on dropping a giant squid on New York at the climax of a gritty deconstruction of superheroes.
I liked it more at first, since it sidesteps the complications introduced by something as idiosyncratic as a giant space squid. However, on re-reading the book I prefer the squid. The big problem with pinning it on Dr. Manhattan is that he is explicitly *not* a neutral force. He was employed as a weapon by the US government for years. Pinning the attack on him runs the risk of it being seen as a false flag attack that would actually stoke the nuclear tensions. Moreover, Dr. Manhattan himself would be a huge loose end. The original plan still requires Dr. Manhattan's complicity and silence, the movie plan would require complicity and silence while the world is actively trying to investigate, interrogate, capture, or destroy Dr. Manhattan, and so he would have more incentive to break his silence. In the original plan, he basically gains nothing from revealing the truth, so it's reasonable for Ozymandias to count on his cooperation. Lastly, and admittedly this is more subjective, but the squid monster is more fitting to the grandiose image Ozymandias cultivated for himself. He considers himself a living legend, who will stand among the greats in history. Having the intelligence to nuke a city and blame it on someone else is one thing. Having the intelligence to coordinate the creation of a skyscraper sized monster , teleporting it, and keeping all of this a secret, is so over the top that it goes from brilliance to egomaniacal self indulgence.
@@trafficcone5449 Also, without the genetic engineering required to create the squid, the existence of Bubastis makes no sense. It's a minor point, but I think it's indicative of how the movie fails to understand the story.
it actually makes less sense. Manhattan is gone so why is a truce necessary? Plus manhattan leaving in this version is far more in line with his worldview. The dichotomy between Rorschach and Ozymandias is something Manhattan cannot comprehend because its not something he can logic away.
Rorshach is dead in doomsday clock, the new one is a man named Reggie. In issue 4 it's revealed that he is the son of the prison therapist Rorshach talked to in the original watchmen graphic novel.
@@2d_899 Right you are. I remember when Doomsday Clock started and we saw a Rorshach I was thinking "That better not be Walter. They better not retcon his death." Cause you know DC and there retcons.
@@renegadedjinn5325 Doomsday clock is my favorite comic series ever, (besides watchmen) . I was very happy to see how well written the series was with the new Rorshach, and also Ozsymandis getting more (screen time?).
My uncle gave me Watchmen years ago and it was the first comic book I ever. Hes passed now but it's one of the best gifts I've ever received. I was seriously blown away at the ending. Amazing book
it’s very silly but as a Polish-american i love Laurie because she’s the first portrayal of a Polish woman as badass and pretty and proud of her heritage (i.e. not anglicizing her name)
@biedronkagirl her going by Jupiter is part of the storyline though, it's not portrayed as a good thing. Sally did it to purposely hide her Polish heritage in order to further her own career, and Sally is shown to be a fairly selfish character. So her throwing away her heritage for potential personal gain is in character for her.
I just finished reading the graphic novel and immediately went to watch this and wow. This is one of the best analysis videos I’ve ever seen. I would love more Watchmen content from your channel.
I remember going to see the movie when it came out with my mom and dad when I was 11. Only movie we ever walked out of, none of us liked it or understood it and we all wanted to leave. It wasn’t until the past few years, rewatching it and watching these videos on the source material that I can appreciate it.
Someone once suggested to me that the reason Dr Manhattan gave into Lori wasn't because she convinced him of miracles, it was because of his feelings for her. Suggesting the Manhattan wasn't as separate from human emotions as he thought.
My dad always said that the watchmen was the greatest deconstruction of heroes. I read it after making a deal with him, and I should've read it earlier because holy hell was it great
I read the Watchmen back when they released it as a graphic novel. Rorschach was always my favorite character. In small part because I used to be the sort who would get into fights on weekends, so the violence aspect didn't phase me. But mainly, I think, because of the black/white "justice" part of his character. Trust me, I don't think things should be BLACK or WHITE. You have to have some shades of grey. But even back then more and more of our justice system, and society in general was becoming more and more monotone grey. People getting off for horrific crimes on technicalities etc. It has only deteriorated since then. The themes of this story have not gone away. They are still swirling around through society, just mixed with a lot more technology.
@@sergeantpete6295 Borrowing from another persons' comment above - "This is what Alan Moore said about people that unironically like Rorschach: "I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?’”
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Well, saying that he is my favorite character in the story doesn't mean I stopped bathing, left my wife, and wander around breaking people's fingers for information. There is a big difference between getting in some fights in my teens and early twenties, and finding criminals and killing them. I am not Rorschach, nor am I anything like him. That doesn't mean I can't believe our justice system should be a little more focused on punishing criminals instead of making excuses for them, giving them a slap on the wrist and telling them not to be a bad boy anymore. To be clear, I'm not talking about sending a teenager with a couple of bags of pot to prison. But I do hear about convicted rapists and murderers, people who committed violent robberies etc., who are out on the streets a few years later doing the same or worse all the time. Anyway, I wasn't putting Rorschach on a pedestal. The themes he represents just resonate with me more strongly than the other characters.
Excellent video & concise argument. I've been teaching Watchmen in a college critical thinking class for almost 15 years. Each time, I find some other lovely Easter Egg or new perspective that changes or shifts one or more of the arguments about the characters. Your video is an excellent entry into deconstructing these characters and how we tend to think about superheroes. Also, the comments here are possibly the best and most carefully considered I've seen on the internet in ages!
Dude I'd love a watchman series. You can analyse each and every character in detail and discuss the events that made them who they are and in what way these events changed the individual in question.
This was a fantastic summary of one of the most influential comics of all time, great vid. I am a little confused as to why you didn't delve more into the thematics of time and the recurring motifs of clocks and clockwork within the comic, such as Manhattan's upbringing and the watch that costs him his humanity
Automotivated_97 to be fair, Watchmen is such a great piece of literature that entire projects could be devoted to analyzing little elements of it like the clocks, the songs, each character, etc. But this was a pretty great overview, made me want to re read it again.
@@adamseidel9780 Yea it was a good brief analysis, but there are deeper elements. Like, how The Comedian is essentially the blueprint for The Joker in the Killing Joke. I say this because The Comedian's nihilistic p.o.v. is very similar to Alan Moore's version of the joker. Or the significance of time. The vigilantes evolved from the Minutemen, to the Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan's father was a watchmaker, and he was on the path to following his father's footsteps until his fathered learned that time is relative. His understanding of the machinery of a clock, allowing him to rebuild his body. The whole of Dr. Manhattans existential crisis relates to his inability to control time. He's really just going through the motions, but isn't exactly a God. He's even skeptical that there is one, but the nature of his existence implies there is a god, or watchmaker. The fact that even someone like him with God-like powers, has no agency, or free will over his life shows that he and the other characters exist within a clockwork universe. Rorschach's mask does represent morality, but I feel like duality is an even better way to describe it, as duality is a major theme of the comics. Arguably the most depressing character is called the Comedian. There's a lot more examples, like Hollis Mason's story about his father's boss, one of his funniest memories also being one of his saddest but I'll stop here. I feel like the best way to describe the comic is that it is a character study of different heroes trying to cope with their own existential crisis. Each one's relationship with God, or their lack of a belief in God, greatly shaping who they are.
@@jobin140 I don't think "God" is that big of a topic in the book as you think it is. Certainly not a main one. Also, I don't know how Manhattans existence proves there is a God.
@@MelficeN7Wow you missed a lot. God is a huge theme as it ties into morality. The comedian is a nihilist, that is a fact. A nihilist believes in nothing, as in no god. He doesnt believe in good or evil, other than them being social constructs. Thats the sick joke he's referring to. All the people putting up fronts, including them, that they are a good moral people, but when it comes down to it evey one is self interested, and their morals fall into the grey not black and white. The joke is how serious everyone takes their life, when as a nihilist, he believes our lives mean nothing. Ozzymandias clearly has a god complex. He literally takes it upon himself to kill millions in order to save the world. Whether he is right or wrong, which can be debated as his story is parallel to the black freighter, it'd take a major narcissist to take an action as bold as that. Look how easy it is for Rorshach to play judge, jury, and executioner. Like he's moral hand of god. The whole of Dr. Manhattan's dilema is that he is considered to be a god, they even reference him being a god in the comics so idk how that part doesnt add up for you, but he doubts this himself as he is aware of his own strings. Btw I never explicitly said there was a god... I said the comic is essentially each characters relationship with the idea of god, or lack of one. Dr. Manhattans existence proves that even he has strings, as in there may very well be a puppet master, or clock maker. Look up clock work universe to underdtand what I mean. You could argue that since he is in a comic, it proves he's in a clockwork universe. He doesn't change the future he can see because he cannot. Its been determined for him as he can see his timeline. He can clearly see that some one or something else created it. So doesn't have to mean god, but there is a creator, and tbh this is an argument you wouldnt win as it leads into semantics, and how god is defined very subjecttively, and it's a lost cause trying to define it becuase the idea of a god, by it's nature, would exist beyond anything we understand. So it'd be foolish to think we could label such a thing so easily.
Thanks for sharing your take. You forgot one supremely important point though: when Dr. Manhattan responds to the question asked by Ozymandias about having done the right thing in the end (you show the scene at the 15: 01 mark) and Dr. Manhattan replies "What end?". That response transcends whatever take any of us have about any other aspect of the story, or where it continues toward. In a macro-cosmic sense it's the real message of the story. All the best!
i love rorschach. even though i'm aware of the crap he's done, and just how despicable and insane he is, his character is done amazingly and i love that. in the movie, it may be done even better than the comics, as now you get to see an actor put all his effort into this character, and not just a drawing on a page
People are using his moral standard as an excuse to make Ozy's moral standard superior to Rorschach.. I observed that they always miss Comedian's role in this moral debate.. because if you say that Rorschach is wrong because he only sees black and white, then you can't argue the same with Comedian.. because Comedian isn't black and white.. yet he would've done what Rorschach would, and that is to tell the truth regardless of the outcome.. that's why Ozy killed him before he could speak up about it.. Comedian is a real piece of human garbage but we can't deny the fact that when he learned about the truth, he is willing to have a change of heart and fight for these people who will be sacrificed for the greater good.. he never got to do that though because he was killed immediately but you got the point.. at the end of the day, this is basically the Trolley Problem in Ethics but the way people use Rorschach's flawed moral standard to make Ozy's flawed moral standard a superior one, disregarding the fact that Comedian would've sided with Rorschach even though both of them have different moral standards.. I really think Comedian's role is the best one here.. forget about his shitty attitude because it doesn't affect his stance on morality.. he is the most loyal person in the group.. he did all the dirty work.. but when he found out the truth.. he felt like everything he did was for nothing.. Comedian doesn't see people as just pawns, but he was blinded and deceived that what he was doing was good.. he is like most people, who will just go with the flow but will experience a traumatic shock once their reality has been shattered by the truth.. that's why I think most people are forgetting about his role in Watchmen.. because everything is masked underneath his horrible personality..
@@eyjay1508...expose a conspiracy that killed millions? While the rest of the "good" characters joined and let it happened? I dunno. What a fucking lunatic.
@@eyjay1508 he’s literally portrayed as a racist, sexist, far right nut job who beats up random people in the street, he’s very obviously not a good guy and idk how one can see him as that if you read the book
I didn't know Watchmen when I first saw the film. I was simply blown away and thought it to be the supremely best 'super' hero story I've ever watched. Seen it many times since and still love it. Your explaination just highlight how well the story was adapted for the movie. However, it seems to lack many aspects from the original (of course) and suddently I really urge to read the original comic, for more depth and detail - Wow! Thanks for sharing your great work here...
Greatest book of all time. I can tell much of a person based off their favorite character and comprehension of this novel. My favorite and the greatest character of this book is bar none John. Manhattan is in a league of his own. He's the only one who truly matters. Honorable mention to Ozzy.
Well the 2009 movie was quite far from the original comic. Most notably in the depiction of Rorschach who is depicted as a badass rather than a bad ass. And it generally just lack nuances. The 2019 TV series is somehow closer to the original comic in intent and nuance even tho it's less true to the exact plot. It has a lot of other debatable stuff tho. I can see why Alan Moore would disagree with both. I think he'd approve this video tho.
I also think there’s a strong parallel that when the marooned sailor got home, he’d lost all hope and assumed the pirates had already destroyed his home. Ozymandius created this plan for years because he believed that humanity was destined to destroy itself. In his mind he saved the world, but he only saved it from a fate he only ASSUMED would happen. They both killed innocents because they were afraid, for the sailor it was the black freighter and for Ozymandias it was Holocaust.
It’s crazy to me that two of the most popular comic writers are such fearless iconoclasts. I swear, I bring up most of these ideas in an everyday conversation and people would look at me like I’m crazy. But grant Morrison and Alan Moore managed to sneak some of most profound ancient and modern ideas into popular culture without most people even noticing. True magic!
@@J43rv1 I started watching it and after an episode or two thought just that and stopped watching. A year or two later I tried it again and the more I watched it the more I loved it. While superficially it starts like Stranger Things, it is NOTHING like it. If they don't fuck up the season 3 and the series ending it will probably end up in my top favorite shows, definitely above Stranger Things
I'd really love to see this channel cover more graphic novels. Obviously this is the big one for the era but there's so many more I'd like to see broken down. Especially some by Alan Moore! V for Vendetta would make an amazing November release and be such timely coverage given the modern rise of fascism again this time in America
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
Which series should we make videos about - His Dark Materials, Dune, Lord of the Rings, The Expanse?
Get a free audiobook with an Audible trial: www.audible.com/asx
LoTR no doubt
you seem into Dune, so definitely that but if I had to pick only one from those, it'd be dark materials lore
the expanse please love your vids and thats my new fav show cant wait to see where it goes im saving reading the books till after but you can tell me about them for days
LOTR!
Dune for sure, you could make the videos leading up to the movie...
“So Manhattan fucks off to Mars to build a sandcastle.”
That’s golden.
Actually it’s not golden it’s silver
Not wrong tho
Guy can go to Mars and do what ever he wants, but he is still bad in sex.
@@amargabela7018 truer words has never been spoken 😔
He fucked off to a different galexy after killing best boii
I like Rorschach and all, but I wish he didn’t have an image of my parents fighting on his face.
Yeah
I see a butterfly. A beautiful, homicidal butterfly with green socks smoking a cigar. This means I am sane, right doc?😬
@Ddhfacetyy Jesus Christ dude... it’s a joke. About ror... nvm...
Huh? Are you sure it’s not a dog their with head busted open?
@Ddhfacetyy Rorschach just doesn't want a peace made out of lie
I can excuse most things but a man who eats another mans beans is no man at all
In doomsday clock the madman went and ate Batman's pancake
Mahmoud Bedja Boana he must be stopped
Gus fring quote?
Yeah you can break in to someone's flat jack their shit but never I mean never touch another man's beans. That's just wrong.
Mahmoud Bedja Boana no matter who wears the mask, he will find you. And he will eat your food
One thing that you didn't mention.
Ozymandius actually created TWO giant psychic squids and sent the other one into Moscow so that neither side could lay blame at the foot of the other.
Alt ending:
Ozzy: they cant blame each other for this!
Ussr: IT WAS CANADA!
Usa: IT WAS CHINA!
Ozzy: Wait? WHAT! Why would they think that!? Thats an incredibly dumb rationale.
It makes no sense what idiot would do that!?
Dr. Manhattan: Its human goverments Ozzy, what did you expect?
Ozzy: ...(sigh) touchè.
when was that mentioned?
Smort
@@robber233 Sends the squiddy to every goddamn country
@@headoverheels899
(Humanity dies)
Ozzy: that'll teach the- aw f***...
"Manhattan gets falsely accused of giving people cancer, and his girlfriend Laurie leaves him for an Owl man. So Manhattan fucks off to Mars and builds a sand castle."
This sentence is amazing. The flow and expression of it. So much going on xD
Manhattan get falsely accused of giving cancer and start fucking off on Mars whilst also building sand castle.
Now that's some good shit
Feels like the future of Elon musk
Great public speaking skills and story telling too
Even scientific god himself has a midlife crisis
I have to say, that's the clearest, most concise and carefully structured explanation of Watchmen I've ever seen, heard or read. Bravo.
Yes! This was PERFECT for me to understand the new series!
our boi is gooood
The man who made this is kind of brilliant himself, and watchmen is clearly brilliant.
Agreed
I agree. It was recommended to me to Alt Shift X. I missed it like the person above.
Imagine starting to like a girl, only to know exactly when and how you'll break up before you even start dating. That's truly a tragic character.
hey that's how the relationship with my father went and I turned out ok
Well just don’t bother dating that person 🤷♂️
@Mediocre Guitar Guy no shit Sherlock
It's like in Dark, there's nothing he can do about ut
He's not tragic at all
Dan's essay about owls is one of the most beautifully written segments of the comic. The interludes really made it something special.
Would hate to be a pain but do you know where I could find that essay? Sounds interesting but dont want to buy the comic.
@@josepharcher3620 !!
I mean America invent not perserve the European have thousand of tear to develop and they see the collapse of an super power like the roman first hand, the European perserve stuff like king and peasant untill like the 20th Century just look at Victorian London,while the American fought it they try to not be held by titles and royalty so they need optimism to fight. While many European back then either work everyday with limited pay while the royalty are free and happy so many because pessimistic, the British Saw child labor, 2 world wars' and a collapsing empire while the American gain more land and an economic boom, also the founding of the USA is based around the optimism that you could have a better live there than Europe
TL;DR: America is founded and need optimism while the European have many thing to be pessimistic about
@@josepharcher3620 get a library card
I would like to read it too but we do not have comics here too
What makes the graphic novel “impossible to adapt” is that the medium is so integrated into the storytelling. With a comic panel structure, you can see the past, present, and future at the same time like Dr Manhattan. And the structure is utilized to communicate pacing in ways a sequential film cannot.
Unless you watch the movie a second time
Excellent analysis!
It is like how Undertale can’t be adapted either.
That game is so integrated in its medium through its themes and story that something always fades in adaptation.
@@ledetbrothers9210 No one is trying to adapt Undertale lol
@@hydrocritical2268
Yeah but you see my point right?
@@ledetbrothers9210 no
We really missed ya Alt Shift X. Just wanted you guys to know that.
I'm glad they found something after the dumpster fire that GoT S08 was.
Absolutely, and an excellent breakdown of a comic book that's really hard to summarise.
@@OllyWood688 let's just not talk about it anymore
@@RUDEMusicUS that which has not to be mentioned, done by those who deserver eternal shame
Hear hear
When Ozymandias is in the 'Christ pose' cheering, I think the background shows Alexander and the Gordian knot. Apparently the knot was uber complex and whoever could bring the two ends together would conquer Asia. Alexander doesn't bother untying the knot but just cuts it with his sword. I think Moore is probably trying to draw the comparison between Alexander and the Gordian knot and Ozymandias' plan with the squid. Both are violent solutions to nuanced problems.
smitty voller
Great observation
Very interesting idea!!!
Both are violent solutions to nuanced problems … true. But both are also effective solutions. Alexander is credited as "solving" the Gordian Knot when no one else could. Ozymandias clearly prevents nuclear Armageddon and saves the world … at least for the time being (depending on which random crank file article the goofy newsboy decides to publish). Like you I also noticed the Gordian Knot motif behind Ozymandias during his moment of triumph. I agree it seems like a pretty clear analogy for Ozy's master plan. Interestingly, it brought back the idea that he was a modern Alexander the Great … he had originally started his career by "walking in the footsteps of Alexander" but if you remember he discovered Rameses II at some point and decided Rameses II was a far greater leader than Alexander and modelled himself after that guy. Hence the Egyptian temple style of his Antarctic base, rather than a Macedonian temple of the sort that Alexander the Great would have built.
@darth g0ldaR if this is satire, it's badly done.
darth g0ldaR He’s talking about you, dickhead. Stop spamming the comment section because you’re not fond of the creator
I like the idea that even if Rorschach’s journal isn’t published, the “utopia” would eventually collapse anyway. At the end of the story it’s revealed that writing negative stories about Russia has been outlawed by the U.S. in order to keep the peace after having seen the horrible outcome of potential nuclear war in New York. But some citizens still harbor the same disdain for what Russia stands for, and without addressing the actual ideological differences and conflicts that led to them to nuclear war in the first place, they’re destined to head there again.
@yomomma5086 That is seriously not what I said. I said that you can't take control of the media and force everyone to be favorable of a country with which the U.S. has had decades of conflict and disagreement, and with which the U.S. very recently came to the brink of nuclear annihilation. Forcefully removing the outlet to criticize that country is only going to cause tensions to grow in secret and eventually boil over. As well, I'm not a cold war historian, but its clear in the Watchmen universe that dislike for Russia's actions and communism is a sentiment held by every day citizens, not just politicians and 'pockets of distrust'. That sentiment doesn't just disappear, and while no population openly wants nuclear war, the U.S. and Russia conflict already did build up to nuclear war once, to say it could escalate to that point again is not unreasonable.
If the "utopia" is formed in an actual sense, then there wouldnt be a russia, america, etc. But I dont know what the story does with this.
Adrian asks Manhattan "In the end, I did the right thing?"
Manhattan responds "in the end? nothing ends Adrian nothing ever ends"
This should tell you that Veidt's morals and empire of peace will not last long, it will crumble to time same as the empire of the great pharaoh Ozymandias buried in sand, Manhattan has seen it all.
Rusia indeed must be obliterated
when is that thing about negative stories revealed? I don't remember it
I always find it funny (and a little concerning) whenever people say that Rorschach is their favorite character in Watchmen because he's "a badass" and "a true hero," when he is very clearly depicted as an unhinged psychopath.
True. But he is no more a psychopath than Ozymandias, whose evil is sadly often sugar coated and de-emphasized because he did it for such and such reasons. Or Dr. Manhattan, who - if we are to judge him by "real life" standards like we to with Rorschach - is an unstable monster, constantly degenerating into something less and less human. And no one can tell when he is so far gone, that his priorities are completely separate, or even opposite from, humans.
A bigot who breaks the fingers of thieves and murderers is, by comparison, nothing to get riled up over.
@@carljosephfriedrich8919 Certainly. But my point is not to say that Rorschach is more or less a bad person in comparison to Ozymandias, a man who killed 3 million people and traumatized millions more. My point is that Rorschach is not the kind of person I would deem worthy of idolizing. Yes, he has a strict moral code, which I suppose is admirable and he kicks the shit out of people, which looks cool, but calling him the "true hero" of the story rubs me the wrong way. In fact, I don't really see any characters in here who I would say should be idolized. The end of the story even tries to cast doubt on whether Ozy did "what was necessary." Ultimately, nobody really has the moral high ground in this situation.
@@jellyjeffrey7350 I think your position is the right one. I agree that Rorschach can not be seen as someone to be idolized. Concerning those who call him their favorite character; I think they unwittingly ignore some of his terrible traits, while "honing in" on his vigilante traits - traits and actions which are often somewhat admired by "the common man", such as vengeance against criminals, moral certitude, willingness to sacrifice oneself, etc. I certainly recognize these as traits I can respect, although Batman is the better incarnation of them.
I'm also suspecting that the Watchmen movie has affected some of the perception of Rorschach. Its portrayal of the character was quite a bit less of an misanthrope, with a stronger focus on his actions as "cool".
To me, Rorschach is a more adept version of a Charles Bronson character. All his characters are basically middle-aged/old men, using extreme violence to get vengeance on a person or group which has wronged him.
Vigilantes like these will always appeal to our desire to see evil-doers treated harsher than what they get. But of course, Rorschach is a quite twisted version of this;)
Shows how right-wing our society is that a character like him can be seen as heroic. A literal communist can write a satire of objectivism and people will take it as praise.
@@burner1303 I think someone viewing the character as heroic is separate from the political tendencies of our time. The traits in the him that are most often seen as positive, are traits which people on both sides of the spectrum may value. Arguing that it's simply a right-wing misinterpretation (lack of knowledge, etc.), paints a picture of a monolithic left and right where no opinions differ between in-group members. Such a perspective would fit Rorschach more than real life;)
If a certain human desire for vengeance against criminals is completely absent from the left, then we have turned into a brain dead mush.
If the right are the only ones who value focus and single minded determination, then they are correct when they call us spineless.
If a clear moral compass, and the strength to endure pain for those morals, are not on the left - then the left will die.
And in the end, it's completely irrelevant what political "bent" Alan Moore has. If you portray a character with traits and values, they are going to be liked or disliked by different people. For legitimate reasons.
I dislike Ayn Rand, and I dislike the characters in her books. I think many comic book creators are naive, overly flamboyant and annoying - and yet I like the characters they create - when there's something to them.
My appreciation of such characters can not be limited to what inner political message said creators had at the time. That would be against human nature.
Sorry for the wall of text. Have a nice night!
My favorite line - "And he breaks into people's houses and eats all their beans". :)
"Fine like this."
I was ok with everything else, but it's truly disturbing that Rorschach likes beans. I draw the line of lunacy there. Utter freak.
This vigilante eating beans
And steals sugar
THIS NIGGA EATIN BEANS!
"it's so sad that Steve Jobs died of ligma" - Dr Manhattan
Whos steve jobs
ligma balls
@@duggeeo4147 *falls to knees* NOOOOOOOOOO!
I thought it's liqma
omg wtf is liqma ???11???
I just love how purely american comic books are so optimistic and colourful and european authors like Alan Moore and Garth Ennis create things like "Watchmen", "Judge Dredd" and "The Boys".
To be fair, they are from the British Isles.
@@sethleoric2598 you wot mate?
(i'm allowed to make fun of british people i'm also british)
Thats a strange thing to love.
Didn't an American create Invincible?
Some of Frank Miller's stuff is pretty dark.
He wasn't exaggerating when he said Alan Moore was a wizard. Man legit thinks he's a wizard. Lives in a castle too.
That might have been the funniest one-liner in the whole thing. XD
I mean your interpretation of wizard is different from Moore’s.
@@superdragonz1 and what is Moore's interpretation of a wizard then?
Also he believes in a fricking snake God the man's a master on the comic genre but a bit of a nutcase
@@inigobantok1579 The snake god thing isn't the weird part. Alan Moore doesn't believe that the god he worships is real; it's well known that Glycon was a snake puppet used to con Ancient Romans into giving their money and sex to priests. Moore just says he worships an obvious hoax snake because he finds it just as likely as someone creating the universe.
I wasn't sure how this channel would transition after the ending of Game of Thrones. However I'm confident that you can make literally any subject interesting. Thank you, keep up the content.
It doesn't matter if he is reading that POV chapter of Hodor, as long is in that voice.
Plus he can still make got videos after the sixth book is out(if it's ever out)
Lol one could extend your comment to include HBO as well.
100%
It is 2009, a watchmen movie is being made. It is 1986 I'm opening the book, 33 years have passed, HBO is making a show. It is 2003 a watchmen movie has been declared "unfilmable." It is 1987 I'm finishing the last chapter.
It is 2020 and the HBO series is still shit.
Rorschach’s journal August 2020 confused after this complex Philosophy must study more
YES!!! ❤️
i just came to say that i main yorick as well
Lol
"In the end, Watchmen is a Rorschach test." - brilliant. well said.
Time out. I've seen the 2009 movie, but never read the comics, but this vid basically says they are pretty much identical. So why were comic fans so pissed off at the movie? 😮
@@KoolKeithProductions Cause no giant CGI squid lol
@@mainsmain lol l never got the whole giant squid part. Some ppl have said the squid works because it was a "random" attack, so that would unite the world, but a Dr Manhattan attack doesn't work, because he's a US creation, so the world would blame America. I don't buy it.
@@KoolKeithProductions because half of the said in the video is not portrayed on the film, the tiny details are the most important to it and Snyder only took what was thrown in the face like he didn't even understood the comic. It was a good movie tho, just not as deep
@@julda8080 ok, but what important details from the comic were removed from the movie? Because l never read the comic, but when the HBO show came out that was a sequel to the comic, l still understood everything because of the movie. The only thing l had to get used to was the raining squids lol
I remember having this in my middle school's library. I don't know why but Korean educators probably didn't know how bloody this series was but it was there. So I had the opportunity to read it. And what a blast it was. It's only in recent years I've come to realize that it was a really deep book.
If you know the tropes and clichés (specifically DC) of western comics this would be even more better.
my high school's library had a copy of Mein Kampf. i moved it to the section with the "choose your own adventure" books.
@@figjam9530 that IS CRAZY BRO!!! Hahaha wow I’m shocked lolz out of curiosity what country hahah
I live in America and this too happened. I even remembered they had a copy of Catcher in the Rye too, so I guess my school didn’t hold back at all.
Haha little funny life stories like this makes three internet worth visiting:”)
Watchmen: I leave it entirely in your hands.
HBO: Oh, Ok.
HBO: .......... now bout that.
(Proceeds to write one of the most bizarre seasons of television in recent memory, slap a Watchmen coat of paint on it and shove it out the door.)
Modern reviewer : But the HBO Watchmen is so "woke" … derp derp :-)
Alan Moore: ... 🤮
@@spaceclown7650 It is woke, but at the same time it isn't. Just like the original comic that talked about 80's problems, the series does the same, referencing every single problem in America, in both sides without ever showing who is right and who is wrong. Everyone is an asshole at the end and all are hypocrites.
Bingo Bango I like how they have a cult of racist Rorsach’s
He breaks peoples fingers to get information.
“Eh”
And eats other people’s beans
“The mad man”
a BEAN
THEY'RE GOOD BEANS, BRONT.
Ah don wan ett!
@@davisjames8484 cheesemaqueen
One time he ate a slice of my pizza, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, I felt powerless, he didn't even asked, I felt broken as each crum pushed my tearing up anxiety, in the end, he just wanted where the bathroom was, he tortured me to know where the bathroom was, why!? 😢🤧
Rorschach reminds me greatly of the character featured in ‘Taxi Driver.’ An incredible movie, that might as well be his origin story
How
@@collectingfilms he’s a man, psychologically disturbed by sex, having delusions about their mothers that have psychologically affected them and their interpretation of the world that they’ve become jaded to in similar ways. Both of them think that the world is a disgusting filthy place and would do something about it if they could
@@pink_earthwormtravis bickles relationship with his mother was never explored in taxi driver besides the letter he wrote to his parents.
@@pink_earthworm so what was Rorschach's "delusion" about his mother? Was all the abuse just in his head?
"Manhattan gets falsely accused of giving people cancer and his girlfriend, Laurie, leaves him for an owl man. So Manhattan fucks off to Mars and builds a sandcastle." 10/10
Yee
It was satisfying he killed Rorschach
I never understood Watchmen... but now that I’ve seen the story I’m just shocked on how much creativity went into these comics. It’s so abstract but beautiful, something really different from the typical superheroes/heroes
This context and direction of the comic is very well, conflict and mature for time to come.
Another meaning is that time is cyclical.
Everything in the comic refers to a clock.
The word Watchmen can be related to the word watchmaker.
Jon Osterman was a watchmaker, and the hydrogen symbol can also refer to a clock at twelve.
The order of the panels also refers to a clock, and the comic has 12 episodes.
The entire comic has no splash pages, except the first 6 pages in the last episode, that symbolizes the chimes of a bell at twelve o'clock.
What happens after twelve o'clock?
The cycle begins again.
Kovac's sign of "the end is nigh" is at the beginning of the comic, because it's already past twelve o'clock, and it also means that Adrian's entire master plan will be in vain, and maybe another disaster will happen in the future.
Since de first page we are reading Rorschach's notes, because everything is done and he is already dead.
Just saying.
Nice video.👍
Also, world's end occurs on November 1st (11/1, 11+1). Then, a new cycle starts over.
@@HoOmBrEdEaCciOoN Hey, that's a great detail!
@@HoOmBrEdEaCciOoN
By the way, I forgot to mention another detail related to a watch.
The former group were the Minutemen.
that's an amazing analysis
Same goes for the comic within the comic: All about time running out; intersecting the main narrative like a full hour bell chime. Also: Foreshadowing the violent "solution" to the doomsday clock, as doom to the town people is to be prohibited literally over a heap of dead bodies (the raft made out of corpses).
I died laughing & came back as a ghost to write this “ Doctor Manhattan was given all the powers except pants 🩲 “ that line killed me
It was “Being an owl gets Dan’s dick hard.” for me.
Dry joke, go back to being dead
The way Alan moore uses the book too put us in dr Manhattans shoes was genius. He can turn the pages but he can't change the ink. Alan moore and Steven king are both creative geniuses
I've only read Pet Sematary - Got any Stephen King recommendations/favorites?
@@annabellelin7730 green line is awesome and the shining is a classic
And these days, both King and Moore are batshit crazy.
“You decide what the ending means.”
DC: No, I don’t think so.
The new watchmen comic is so good
RIP Watchmen :(
@@PorungaSan even when Disney is not involved, the internet makes sure disney is the villain. Essentially DC started a new line called doomsday clock set after watchmen
Doomsday Clock, aka, Geoff Johns shouts, "Look what you made me do" at a Alan Moore who rolls his eyes and says, "I was telling you not to do it, champ."
Doomsday Clock is an incredible and significantly better story. Ozy's plan was never going to work, it was always a temporary false peace. Doomsday Clock just showed what was always going to happen.
"In the end, Adrian? Nothing ever ends."
also him in doomsday clock : everything ends
Bingo. Was a tad disappointed he left that out, but still an awesome video anyway.
no line has aged better than that...
Ozymandias reminded me of the statement: "Anyone who is willing to give his own life for his cause is even more likely to give someone else's life for that cause."
That sounds wise, but think about the first responders on a day like 9/11. Or any firefighter who runs into a burning building to save someone. Maybe those aren't "causes" in the sense the quote meant, but the point is that selfless courage does exist.
@@iyziejane True, true.
This comic is a masterpiece of human literature
Truth
Should be kept in a capsule for the next 500 years to come
@@ynog0978 for sure
@@ynog0978 there won't be a "next 500 hundred years"
@@thehatrat6682 um...
Great video, but I was surprised that you didn't expand more on the Comedian. I know he wasn't a major character, but he influenced a lot of the other characters in a profound way. You already covered his relationship with Laurie, but his relationship with Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan is also worth exploring. The Comedian's take on the world being a joke was an important theme of the story.
He also completely fucked up Adrian's worldview, which drove him to do what he did. The Comedian is amazing and is more central to this story than you realize when you first finish the comic.
A puppet show.
I like how the symbolism of the bloodied smiley face is show both at the start of the comic and at its end. It makes it feel as if the sory has gone full circle. You start with murder, you end with murder and nothing ever changes no matter what you do
What I love about Dr. Manhattan's origin story is that Moore acknowledges it's not gonna sound like anything new or groundbreaking in the comic medium, but still tells it and focuses on the hopelessness of Jon's entrapment in the machine to tell it well. Imagine you come back to a room to get your coat, but the doors close behind you. At first, you treat it as a joke, though the horrified reactions of your friends say otherwise before you yourself utterly panic when you find you're going to die now in this tiny space and there's nothing to be done about it. After a few minutes of dreading, every atom in the room disintegrates, including the ones that make you. The most hopeless situation.
“And really bad at sex”
Ah so I’m a god too
I think the creator of this vid was projecting.
Me after hearing that:
"You know, I'm something of a god myself."
I'm not 😭😭
@darth g0ldaR Explain please.
Rorschach: *breaks others fingers*
Me: That's nice
Rorschach: *eats another man's beans*
Me: You monster!
Never eat a man's beans.
Interesting fact: the murder of Kitty Genovese, which motivated Rorshach, was also one of the events that motivated the MacManus brothers (from The Boondock Saints) to kill criminals.
It was also debunked (the idea that no one intervened). There weren't many people in the vicinity, and most of them either didn't hear a thing or thought it was a drunk quarrel or something like that and dismissed it. Some called the police, unsure about what they had witnessed, some called some friends and decided to call the police on their advice. When the attacker came back after grabbing something to mask his face, she had a punctured lung and apparently couldn't have been able to shout, she was also out of view from anyone. When people realized what truly happened it was too late
@Thunder Spartan
Are any of them really heroes?
@Thunder Spartan
Or was he playing a fantasy?
@@kylemendoza8860 depends on your point of view. You WATCH from your viewpoint. Moore answers the question of who watches the Watchmen. We do.
Lordt, revenge "porn" is the worst motivator. I saw the Kitty Genovese documentary as well! So Boondock Saints seemed a tad excessive lol
An important thing to note about Watchmen’s approach to realism is that, contrary to what its name suggests, it’s not an accurate representation of reality. It’s an accurate representation of what reality would be like with superheroes. Yet a good chunk of the dark edgelord shit inspired by it fundamentally misses that point.
The Boys were good for a while precisely until they kept going in line with the "realistic dark edgelord shit". As soon as they decided to go full on Supernatural mode, we got the ending of S3
@@1v966better then the comics where there is a rape every issue
@@albertwesker6153 yep, its the reason why I ran away from the show, because of the comic. It's not "Superheroes as complex humans with their own goals, desires, ideals etc."
It's just a guy who hates superheroes and decided to make them the most edgiest, pieces of crap, scum, who do the most vilest and inhuman things and just uses shock value every time.
It was just plainly superheroes bad in the worst most and most gory way possible to the point it doesn't make sense (did vought pick all their heroes from Prisons and asylums!?!?).
It pains me that it gets the attention it has cause it is horrible but eh.
@@bossman0116 well one reason the show gets some much attention is because they made it a satire of superheroes and society. Another reason is because of those terrible sigma male memes, people see homelander as a sigma male even though he’s a deranged psychopath. While I do like the show I get what you mean, I think I and other people liked it was because it was different from the other superhero stuff at the moment. But yeah the watchmen is the best for a “realistic” look on superheroes.
What's ironic is those calling others edgelords are often themselves just as fucking cringey.
3:13 this panel of Rorschach choosing to spare the landlady because of her kids being there is one of those little moments I wish they’d included in the adaptation. It shows Roschach, as awful as he can be, IS complex and capable of making genuinely moral and somewhat heartfelt decisions.
Edit: more Watchmen please
I think it was because he lost his innocence as a child and the event that drove him mad was the death of a child. Children are the only people he feels empathy towards.
@@carolfromhr9900 Which is something that makes him pretty quickly a lot more compelling.
I thought that he came just to call her a [you know what] and expose her lie in front of her kids 💀
Rorschach isn’t awful, he’s broken
“He’s cold and distant and really bad at sex.”😂
If he prolong it and warm it up, will that help?
It is 15 seconds from now. I have orgasmed.
One of the things you skipped over was how much character the Comedian is given, even, as you say, being the most evil character (although I’d argue Veidt is less human). Like one of the things that always fucked with me when I read that book is how he cries when he discovers Veidt’s plan - after all the horrible things he’s done, the war crimes he’s laughed at while committing them, Veidt’s calculated coldness breaks through to his humanity, and the dam of comedy he’s built and maintained around his emotions for decades comes crashing down. I think he even cries and says something like “that’s too fucked up, that’s not funny,” which gets exactly to the core of his callous “sense of humor” as a way to dull the pain a life of horrors inflicts on him.
And yet he doesn’t report it, and instead waits patiently to be murdered, like all he really wants at that point is for his personal suffering to end. Fugged up.
I think it's also worth pointing out that for all Veidt's intelligence, the person who realized and pointed out the problem in the first place was not Veidt, it was the Comedian, whose brutal sort-of-comedic delivery jolted Veidt out of his complacency ("you'll be the smartest man on the cinder"). His irreverent approach to the world let him cut through to the guts of issues.
@@purplelibraryguy8729 in the comic he said that to Captain Metropolis, not Ozzy.
@@christiaanbruin4989 No he didn't. He was talking to both of them, but Ozymandias was already going with the whole "smartest man in the world" schtick; that particular line was spoken to him. Ozymandias was left looking thoughtfully at the burned map, and I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated that that was what got him thinking about the issue.
dark humor is a way to cope, and the comedian used his dark humor to ignore his iwn evil. but there was no humor in ozymandias' plan, it was just banal evil. that got to him, because he couldnt run from it through jokes.
not even finished the video yet but these edits on the comics and sliding from relevant panels to the next is very smooth and easy to follow love this format
Watchmen has so many messages that it is really difficult to sum it all up in a 17 minute video. But you did a great job at describing the ones that talk about morality.
For real; that's the most impressive thing about the video
the movie is certainly an impressive piece of propaghanda
I gotta say, this has got to be the best explanation of a comic I have ever seen
1:41 i really like that detail honestly, the idea that superheroes being real boosted the popularity of other comic genres.
Loved the ending.
Imagined after his journal was published the entire human race finally annihilated itself.
Finally, peace.
R u ok?
@@tomman2257 I am excellent.
You ok?
@@ericlondon2663 nah bro, you nuts
That did happen in the Watchmen x DC crossover
It was a good brief analysis, but there are deeper elements. Like, how The Comedian is essentially the blueprint for The Joker in the Killing Joke. I say this because The Comedian's nihilistic p.o.v. is very similar to Alan Moore's version of the joker. Or the significance of time. The vigilantes evolved from the Minutemen, to the Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan's father was a watchmaker, and he was on the path to following his father's footsteps until his fathered learned that time is relative. His understanding of the machinery of a clock, allowing him to rebuild his body. The whole of Dr. Manhattans existential crisis relates to his inability to control time. He's really just going through the motions, but isn't exactly a God. He's even skeptical that there is one, but the nature of his existence implies there is a god, or watchmaker. The fact that even someone like him with God-like powers, has no agency, or free will over his life shows that he and the other characters exist within a clockwork universe. Rorschach's mask does represent morality, but I feel like duality is an even better way to describe it, as duality is a major theme of the comics. Arguably the most depressing character is called the Comedian. There's a lot more, like Hollis Mason's story about his father's boss, one of his funniest memories also being one of his saddest but I'll stop here. I feel like the best way to describe the comic is that it is a character study of different heroes trying to cope with their own existential crisis. Each one's relationship with God, or their lack of a belief in God, greatly shaping who they are.
P W, some of his points kinda didn’t feel right with me, I read the book only once and I got different vibes. I’m gonna read it again and see where I leave off 👍
Art is subjective. I appreciated his take on it myself
Reading Dr Manhatten's background chapter in particular blows me away every time. I can't believe how clever, but understandable, but fun, but philosophical, it all is. It's one of the best things I've ever read. Totally stacks up against great novels.
If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker.
@@johnnydkota5709 It definitely is, and I'm not hating on the video. Just saying its such a great comic that there are layers that go even deeper. When you put your heart into something like Alan Moore clearly has, you definitely have themese in mind, and youre trying to figure how best to convey those themes. So i half agree with what you said. A big part of it is subjective, and the other is the writer's intention. Some of what i said I feel confident saying that was what he intended. Still gave your post a thumbs up though, so to be clear this isn't intended to be an attack on you comment :)
@@bravobear1844 if you wanna get back into the comics, besides reading them, I suggest you also check out the motion comics on youtube. It's done really well, and covers more than the film did, as it's set up like the comics meaning each video is like reading one watchmen comic. You miss out on a lot of the text, like hollis mason's book intro, the black freighter, some stuff of night owl, Ozzymandius's p.o.v. on choice and his intelligence, but all in all a fun way to revisit the story. The voice acting is meh, but doesnt take away from it IMO and animation is actually really impressive.
Why did the thumbnail remind me of the “Me and the Boys” meme
Seriously though, an amazingly structured video. Well done matey.
Lmfaooo right?! I thought that too
To be fair, Rorschach was looking for beans.
Me and the boys when half of New York is killed
Because it's an 80s superhero comic?
@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491 lmfaooooooo
Manhattan be like: "I don't want to live on this planet anymore..."
Same here Doc
Same here. If I was Manhattan I would be everywhere but here. Andromeda.. Jupiter.. float through Saturn's Rings.. explore whatever the hell the Great Attractor is..
Good one, my dude. Relevant meme
"Aight, Imma head out"
Anyone with a brain can relate to that.
Ozymandius: "im gonna drop a psychic squid on manhattan that will kill millions."
Dr Manhattan: "ight, ima head out."
"Dr Manhattan has all the powers....except pants" golden
"I used to think my life was a tragedy, then I learned it was a giant telepathic squid"
^ ^ ^ This is great and should be carved in stone on a monument somewhere. Not necessarily a giant telepathic squid monument. Any monument will work.
I used to think that my life is a tragedy but now I realize it's a freaking comedy.
Joaquin Phoenix IS SQUID!
You think you can ignore me for months and I’ll come crawling back to you?
Sry, what did you say? I was licking his feet.
I Mean if You do You won't Have to do His Laundry Anymore..
Send me that funny forward again, Dwight!
You are Goddamn right.
The blood on the smiley face also looks like the hand on a watch as if it’s the doomsday clock.
I ventured this far down in the comments looking for someone to say just this... because the omission of that detail is the one thing that really bothered me about this synopsis. Maybe because it was too obvious?
Didn't see it before. Can't be unseen now. Awesome!
Yes,Manhattan's father was a watch maker.the whole dang story is about watches/time/past/present/future.
I will leave this comment at 360 likes to represent 360 degrees like a watch
Paul Boyd It also kinda bothered me he didn’t mention Rorschach’s mask, where he got the material from (Kitty Genovese dropped it off at the cleaners, made from an experimental Veidt material) or that it is constantly changing, but symmetrical like a Rorschach blot
Watching videos like this really make me grateful for the direction that the RUclips algorthim is seemingly taking. Video essays about comics, events, shows, and various miscellaneous topics with multi hour long runtimes make me happy to see that people's passions are being highlighted, and the results speak for themselves. This video was truly a beautiful and concise explanation of a very popular comic (and the 2019 watchmen explanation made my jaw drop to say the least). Looking forward to more of this quality content. +1 subscriber
This is what Alan Moore said about people that unironically like Rorschach:
"I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?’”
Rorschach is one of my favorite characters in all of comics, but I don't actually identify with him aside from his complete devotion to the truth, "even in the face of armageddon." While he does have some badass totally Punisher-esque moments that I do enjoy, I mostly like him because he's a very interesting character, much more complex than most superheroes are written.
Alan Moore sounds like an asshole. Rorschach is a great character, the world would be better if more people had Rorschach's morality.
@@matt6223 Alan Moore is definitely an asshole, just as much as he is a brilliant writer. He's smug beyond compare and has previously picked fights with other authors over all sorts of tedious shit, including accusing Grant Morrison of ripping him off when Grant's story in question actually came out before his own.
Of-course Rorschach is the most likeable character in the comic, he's the only one who still does the principled work of a hero: he intervenes in crimes and saves innocent people. When Nite Owl prevents a mugging later he does it for cheap sexual thrills, but Rorschach is doing it because it's the right thing to do. That basic morality is missing from the rest of the cast. He's a victim of abuse and neglect, he's lonely, he's isolated... and Alan Moore thinks we're NOT going to identify with him? Plus, the fucking guy gets all the best scenes. The fight in the prison canteen, the interviews with the psychologist, the Kitty Genevese back story... all the best monologues gets assigned to him. Of-course he's the best part of the story. It's hysterical that Alan Moore doesn't understand that.
Matt it categorically would not be better. If people shared his morality, you would have lynchings in the streets for minor, petty crimes. Or punishments for open sexuality, with people being branded as degenerates. Maybe you want to live in such a world, but personally, I believe in fair trials, freedom of expression and the fact that morality has many grey areas, very few things are truly black and white.
@@08mlascelles Everyone Rorschach kills is guilty and he never killed anyone for petty crimes. Modern sexuality is getting out of hand.
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings. Look on my works ye mighty, and despair!” “The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
Ozymandias is practically the original Thanos.
Thanos is the original Thanos
I always hated that character especially seeing he had no powers but somehow was faster than a bullet and take on Rorshach and owl easily at the same time. I wonder if Moore made him the worst character on purpose to add to the fact he was behind everything
@Herbett, Darkseid is the original Thanos
Mikey Estee
The concept and philosophy for the film Thanos was done with Ozymandias first.
@@theblackflame4002 He had a bionic arm after "catching a bullet" the first time remember.
I’ve honestly always preferred the movie version of Ozymandias’ plan. Seemed like it was more believable as to why world leaders would stop the Cold War, and gave a better reason for Manhattan to leave.
I thought the squid was better, and the movie lost something for blaming it on Manhattan instead. Sure, Manhattan as a scapegoat is more narratively compact, since his work on energy is a plot thread brought up earlier in the movie, but it loses something from the book, from the sheer cartoonishness of an evil genius monologuing on dropping a giant squid on New York at the climax of a gritty deconstruction of superheroes.
I liked it more at first, since it sidesteps the complications introduced by something as idiosyncratic as a giant space squid. However, on re-reading the book I prefer the squid.
The big problem with pinning it on Dr. Manhattan is that he is explicitly *not* a neutral force. He was employed as a weapon by the US government for years. Pinning the attack on him runs the risk of it being seen as a false flag attack that would actually stoke the nuclear tensions.
Moreover, Dr. Manhattan himself would be a huge loose end. The original plan still requires Dr. Manhattan's complicity and silence, the movie plan would require complicity and silence while the world is actively trying to investigate, interrogate, capture, or destroy Dr. Manhattan, and so he would have more incentive to break his silence. In the original plan, he basically gains nothing from revealing the truth, so it's reasonable for Ozymandias to count on his cooperation.
Lastly, and admittedly this is more subjective, but the squid monster is more fitting to the grandiose image Ozymandias cultivated for himself. He considers himself a living legend, who will stand among the greats in history. Having the intelligence to nuke a city and blame it on someone else is one thing. Having the intelligence to coordinate the creation of a skyscraper sized monster , teleporting it, and keeping all of this a secret, is so over the top that it goes from brilliance to egomaniacal self indulgence.
@@trafficcone5449 Also, without the genetic engineering required to create the squid, the existence of Bubastis makes no sense. It's a minor point, but I think it's indicative of how the movie fails to understand the story.
I totally agree with you. It's a much smarter idea; believable, set up better, and something Dr Manhattan wouldn't see coming. Much, much better.
it actually makes less sense. Manhattan is gone so why is a truce necessary? Plus manhattan leaving in this version is far more in line with his worldview. The dichotomy between Rorschach and Ozymandias is something Manhattan cannot comprehend because its not something he can logic away.
Me: not so interested in watchmen.
Alt Shift X: uploads.
Me: Watchmen is the BEST!
THIS!!!
You should See the movie before the series start if not, try to read the comic
G is the movie pretty good? And in line with alt x’s explanation of the comic?
A R yes it is, Is really long and if You see the version which included the Freighter comic is longer 😂
@@AR-io8fv stick to the comic
"You decide what the ending means."
Batman pulls Bloody Smiley pin from the cave wall "We're being watched."
@Joe Mama you don't get it because you are small brain. ( and that rorschach isn't the real one )
Rorshach is dead in doomsday clock, the new one is a man named Reggie.
In issue 4 it's revealed that he is the son of the prison therapist Rorshach talked to in the original watchmen graphic novel.
@@2d_899 Right you are. I remember when Doomsday Clock started and we saw a Rorshach I was thinking "That better not be Walter. They better not retcon his death." Cause you know DC and there retcons.
@@renegadedjinn5325 Doomsday clock is my favorite comic series ever, (besides watchmen) . I was very happy to see how well written the series was with the new Rorshach, and also Ozsymandis getting more (screen time?).
My uncle gave me Watchmen years ago and it was the first comic book I ever. Hes passed now but it's one of the best gifts I've ever received. I was seriously blown away at the ending. Amazing book
Better that than your uncle giving you repressed memories and not being able to sit down for a week.
Are you okay?
@@kalmah456 now that the stitches healed, yeah. Nah, just fucking with you.
nice.
it’s very silly but as a Polish-american i love Laurie because she’s the first portrayal of a Polish woman as badass and pretty and proud of her heritage (i.e. not anglicizing her name)
uhhh... they did at one point call her ms. jupiter instead of juspeczyk lol
@@Viridian02 yeah I know about that, that was one of my least favorite aspects of the movie
@@biedronkagirl lol fair enough
@@ghoul5371 if my memory serves me correctly, Laurie’s mom directly denied being Polish but Laurie doesn’t, in direct response to her mother
@biedronkagirl her going by Jupiter is part of the storyline though, it's not portrayed as a good thing. Sally did it to purposely hide her Polish heritage in order to further her own career, and Sally is shown to be a fairly selfish character. So her throwing away her heritage for potential personal gain is in character for her.
Alt-Shift-X: Watchmen, Dune, LOTR, or His Dark Materials?
Me: yes
Looking at the noose: we will have to postpone for a couple of months.
*In Gary Oldman scream in Leon: The Profesional=> "... EVERYONE!"
Who needs them if they are not narrated by Alt Shift X?
We've moved on to The Boys now though. Unless something better comes along.
DC was dark before it was cool 😎
Please do one for Alan Moore “V for vendetta”
Yessss
I just finished reading the graphic novel and immediately went to watch this and wow. This is one of the best analysis videos I’ve ever seen. I would love more Watchmen content from your channel.
I remember going to see the movie when it came out with my mom and dad when I was 11. Only movie we ever walked out of, none of us liked it or understood it and we all wanted to leave. It wasn’t until the past few years, rewatching it and watching these videos on the source material that I can appreciate it.
Like literally it's AMAZING MOVIE
I didn't like it either and I was like 20
Bringing your 11 yo to watch watchmen is insane
I’m still judging you for walking out cuz ???? What lol
Watchmen?
More like I'll-watch-whatever-you-post-man. Glad you're posting.
Serious. His breakdowns are through and thoughtfu without being condescending.
What if he told you to hide in some bushes naked and watch men?
Last time I was so early, Game of Thrones was still a great series.
its still hurts thinking of it...
Shots fired, but at least the Lord of the rings still exist
beating the autistic circlejerking horse dead
Read the books. They at least still have potential.
I watched Chernobyl straight after so at least I didnt feel like I wasted my NOWTV subscription.
Someone once suggested to me that the reason Dr Manhattan gave into Lori wasn't because she convinced him of miracles, it was because of his feelings for her. Suggesting the Manhattan wasn't as separate from human emotions as he thought.
Even he couldn't resist the temptation of fantasy.
My dad always said that the watchmen was the greatest deconstruction of heroes. I read it after making a deal with him, and I should've read it earlier because holy hell was it great
Man I missed this quality breakdowns/analyst. Love this channel
“None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with YOU. You're locked up in here with ME.”
Sergeant Pete my favourite part of the story.😂😂
Yes!
I read the Watchmen back when they released it as a graphic novel. Rorschach was always my favorite character. In small part because I used to be the sort who would get into fights on weekends, so the violence aspect didn't phase me. But mainly, I think, because of the black/white "justice" part of his character. Trust me, I don't think things should be BLACK or WHITE. You have to have some shades of grey. But even back then more and more of our justice system, and society in general was becoming more and more monotone grey. People getting off for horrific crimes on technicalities etc. It has only deteriorated since then. The themes of this story have not gone away. They are still swirling around through society, just mixed with a lot more technology.
@@sergeantpete6295 Borrowing from another persons' comment above - "This is what Alan Moore said about people that unironically like Rorschach:
"I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?’”
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Well, saying that he is my favorite character in the story doesn't mean I stopped bathing, left my wife, and wander around breaking people's fingers for information. There is a big difference between getting in some fights in my teens and early twenties, and finding criminals and killing them. I am not Rorschach, nor am I anything like him. That doesn't mean I can't believe our justice system should be a little more focused on punishing criminals instead of making excuses for them, giving them a slap on the wrist and telling them not to be a bad boy anymore. To be clear, I'm not talking about sending a teenager with a couple of bags of pot to prison. But I do hear about convicted rapists and murderers, people who committed violent robberies etc., who are out on the streets a few years later doing the same or worse all the time. Anyway, I wasn't putting Rorschach on a pedestal. The themes he represents just resonate with me more strongly than the other characters.
Excellent video & concise argument. I've been teaching Watchmen in a college critical thinking class for almost 15 years. Each time, I find some other lovely Easter Egg or new perspective that changes or shifts one or more of the arguments about the characters. Your video is an excellent entry into deconstructing these characters and how we tend to think about superheroes.
Also, the comments here are possibly the best and most carefully considered I've seen on the internet in ages!
Watchmen TL;DR version: I wanna read a comic but I also wanna feel sad.
@@vlc-cosplayer no
So berserk but DC?
@@thepastaprogenitor851 berserk is death
Dude I'd love a watchman series. You can analyse each and every character in detail and discuss the events that made them who they are and in what way these events changed the individual in question.
Why focus on the TV series? The film version is superior. Do a breakdown on that instead.
This was a fantastic summary of one of the most influential comics of all time, great vid. I am a little confused as to why you didn't delve more into the thematics of time and the recurring motifs of clocks and clockwork within the comic, such as Manhattan's upbringing and the watch that costs him his humanity
Automotivated_97 to be fair, Watchmen is such a great piece of literature that entire projects could be devoted to analyzing little elements of it like the clocks, the songs, each character, etc. But this was a pretty great overview, made me want to re read it again.
@@adamseidel9780 Yea it was a good brief analysis, but there are deeper elements. Like, how The Comedian is essentially the blueprint for The Joker in the Killing Joke. I say this because The Comedian's nihilistic p.o.v. is very similar to Alan Moore's version of the joker. Or the significance of time. The vigilantes evolved from the Minutemen, to the Watchmen. Dr. Manhattan's father was a watchmaker, and he was on the path to following his father's footsteps until his fathered learned that time is relative. His understanding of the machinery of a clock, allowing him to rebuild his body. The whole of Dr. Manhattans existential crisis relates to his inability to control time. He's really just going through the motions, but isn't exactly a God. He's even skeptical that there is one, but the nature of his existence implies there is a god, or watchmaker. The fact that even someone like him with God-like powers, has no agency, or free will over his life shows that he and the other characters exist within a clockwork universe. Rorschach's mask does represent morality, but I feel like duality is an even better way to describe it, as duality is a major theme of the comics. Arguably the most depressing character is called the Comedian. There's a lot more examples, like Hollis Mason's story about his father's boss, one of his funniest memories also being one of his saddest but I'll stop here. I feel like the best way to describe the comic is that it is a character study of different heroes trying to cope with their own existential crisis. Each one's relationship with God, or their lack of a belief in God, greatly shaping who they are.
@@jobin140
I don't think "God" is that big of a topic in the book as you think it is. Certainly not a main one. Also, I don't know how Manhattans existence proves there is a God.
@@MelficeN7Wow you missed a lot. God is a huge theme as it ties into morality. The comedian is a nihilist, that is a fact. A nihilist believes in nothing, as in no god. He doesnt believe in good or evil, other than them being social constructs. Thats the sick joke he's referring to. All the people putting up fronts, including them, that they are a good moral people, but when it comes down to it evey one is self interested, and their morals fall into the grey not black and white. The joke is how serious everyone takes their life, when as a nihilist, he believes our lives mean nothing. Ozzymandias clearly has a god complex. He literally takes it upon himself to kill millions in order to save the world. Whether he is right or wrong, which can be debated as his story is parallel to the black freighter, it'd take a major narcissist to take an action as bold as that. Look how easy it is for Rorshach to play judge, jury, and executioner. Like he's moral hand of god. The whole of Dr. Manhattan's dilema is that he is considered to be a god, they even reference him being a god in the comics so idk how that part doesnt add up for you, but he doubts this himself as he is aware of his own strings. Btw I never explicitly said there was a god... I said the comic is essentially each characters relationship with the idea of god, or lack of one. Dr. Manhattans existence proves that even he has strings, as in there may very well be a puppet master, or clock maker. Look up clock work universe to underdtand what I mean. You could argue that since he is in a comic, it proves he's in a clockwork universe. He doesn't change the future he can see because he cannot. Its been determined for him as he can see his timeline. He can clearly see that some one or something else created it. So doesn't have to mean god, but there is a creator, and tbh this is an argument you wouldnt win as it leads into semantics, and how god is defined very subjecttively, and it's a lost cause trying to define it becuase the idea of a god, by it's nature, would exist beyond anything we understand. So it'd be foolish to think we could label such a thing so easily.
This video makes me love Watchmen even more. Such an dark and macabre yet amazing comic book that I've ever read.
Thanks for sharing your take. You forgot one supremely important point though: when Dr. Manhattan responds to the question asked by Ozymandias about having done the right thing in the end (you show the scene at the 15: 01 mark) and Dr. Manhattan replies "What end?". That response transcends whatever take any of us have about any other aspect of the story, or where it continues toward. In a macro-cosmic sense it's the real message of the story. All the best!
For me, that was the single greatest page in the entire comic. Or in any comic book, ever.
i love rorschach. even though i'm aware of the crap he's done, and just how despicable and insane he is, his character is done amazingly and i love that. in the movie, it may be done even better than the comics, as now you get to see an actor put all his effort into this character, and not just a drawing on a page
People are using his moral standard as an excuse to make Ozy's moral standard superior to Rorschach.. I observed that they always miss Comedian's role in this moral debate.. because if you say that Rorschach is wrong because he only sees black and white, then you can't argue the same with Comedian.. because Comedian isn't black and white.. yet he would've done what Rorschach would, and that is to tell the truth regardless of the outcome.. that's why Ozy killed him before he could speak up about it.. Comedian is a real piece of human garbage but we can't deny the fact that when he learned about the truth, he is willing to have a change of heart and fight for these people who will be sacrificed for the greater good.. he never got to do that though because he was killed immediately but you got the point.. at the end of the day, this is basically the Trolley Problem in Ethics but the way people use Rorschach's flawed moral standard to make Ozy's flawed moral standard a superior one, disregarding the fact that Comedian would've sided with Rorschach even though both of them have different moral standards.. I really think Comedian's role is the best one here.. forget about his shitty attitude because it doesn't affect his stance on morality.. he is the most loyal person in the group.. he did all the dirty work.. but when he found out the truth.. he felt like everything he did was for nothing.. Comedian doesn't see people as just pawns, but he was blinded and deceived that what he was doing was good.. he is like most people, who will just go with the flow but will experience a traumatic shock once their reality has been shattered by the truth.. that's why I think most people are forgetting about his role in Watchmen.. because everything is masked underneath his horrible personality..
I mean what crap has rorsach really done other than beat up criminals?
Snyder doesn't understand Rorschach
@@eyjay1508...expose a conspiracy that killed millions? While the rest of the "good" characters joined and let it happened? I dunno. What a fucking lunatic.
@@eyjay1508 he’s literally portrayed as a racist, sexist, far right nut job who beats up random people in the street, he’s very obviously not a good guy and idk how one can see him as that if you read the book
I didn't know Watchmen when I first saw the film. I was simply blown away and thought it to be the supremely best 'super' hero story I've ever watched. Seen it many times since and still love it. Your explaination just highlight how well the story was adapted for the movie. However, it seems to lack many aspects from the original (of course) and suddently I really urge to read the original comic, for more depth and detail - Wow! Thanks for sharing your great work here...
Greatest book of all time. I can tell much of a person based off their favorite character and comprehension of this novel. My favorite and the greatest character of this book is bar none John. Manhattan is in a league of his own. He's the only one who truly matters. Honorable mention to Ozzy.
Props to the script writer of this master piece. Beautifully done.
because it's alan moore of course it is
As someone who hasn't read the comics this was clear and very well done. Thanks
Read it, man. My favorite graphic novel of all time
Same. I've not read the comics so this was a pretty good intro before watching the show.
I only watched the movie adaptation. Didn't know that it was a giant psychic squid that destroys NY, not a nuclear bomb.
*I wonder if Alan Moore would agree with this analysis where he doesn't agree with directors' movie and television adaptations.*
Well the 2009 movie was quite far from the original comic. Most notably in the depiction of Rorschach who is depicted as a badass rather than a bad ass.
And it generally just lack nuances.
The 2019 TV series is somehow closer to the original comic in intent and nuance even tho it's less true to the exact plot. It has a lot of other debatable stuff tho.
I can see why Alan Moore would disagree with both. I think he'd approve this video tho.
“So comics about pirates are popular instead”
THE ONE PIECE IS REAL
" I'm not in here with you...your in here with ME !!".
I just remember I didn't know how to think after reading Watchmen. And for long time after reading it I still feel that way! Really is a masterpiece.
I also think there’s a strong parallel that when the marooned sailor got home, he’d lost all hope and assumed the pirates had already destroyed his home. Ozymandius created this plan for years because he believed that humanity was destined to destroy itself. In his mind he saved the world, but he only saved it from a fate he only ASSUMED would happen. They both killed innocents because they were afraid, for the sailor it was the black freighter and for Ozymandias it was Holocaust.
Thank you so much for this content. I've wondered for years about this story, and you have made things so much more understandable. Thank you!
Great summary!
What a place to find a comment from my favorite sleep podcast
Roughs up a sick, old man - "meh...."
Eats all of everyone's beans - "You fiend!"
He doesn't even heat them up, the bastard.
@@jbot91 Fine like this.
Alt-X upload?! What an unexpected and great surprise!
You can say "a suprise to be sure but a welcomed one"
@@Fruzhin5483 this is a place of culture, we do not quote those movies :-p
@@barellevy6030 Imma keep it real with you chief - No
It’s crazy to me that two of the most popular comic writers are such fearless iconoclasts. I swear, I bring up most of these ideas in an everyday conversation and people would look at me like I’m crazy.
But grant Morrison and Alan Moore managed to sneak some of most profound ancient and modern ideas into popular culture without most people even noticing.
True magic!
Funny how some people think Rorschach is a hero when really he is an antihero.
He's cool (like Wolverine) when you're young and naive and just want to be able to hurt people back. Hopefully one evolves past that.
An antihero is a kind of hero.
One of the great things about Watchmen is how every character has their good and bad aspects . . . kind of like real life.
@@jvanmoyer Everyone wants to hurt evil scumbags wdym lmao
The best part about watchman is that there is no clear heroes or villains. That's what separates it from other comics.
Alt Shift X, I think the German show "Dark" would be a perfect show for you to dig into. Only you could do this show a justice
Absolutely we need a deep-dive on that
Yes please!!
yes please.
Isn’t it just a copy of stranger things?
@@J43rv1 I started watching it and after an episode or two thought just that and stopped watching. A year or two later I tried it again and the more I watched it the more I loved it. While superficially it starts like Stranger Things, it is NOTHING like it.
If they don't fuck up the season 3 and the series ending it will probably end up in my top favorite shows, definitely above Stranger Things
This is one of the best videos I’ve ever seen on this platform. The editing the narrative the visuals. 10/10
I'd really love to see this channel cover more graphic novels. Obviously this is the big one for the era but there's so many more I'd like to see broken down. Especially some by Alan Moore! V for Vendetta would make an amazing November release and be such timely coverage given the modern rise of fascism again this time in America