Locomotive Numbers: Logic, Complexity...and Confusion!
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- Amalgamation and privatisation presented many challenges including one which you may not have heard of. An issue which had the potential to cause major headaches in the engineering departments and was nothing short of an administrative nightmare! Join us today as we go through the surprisingly interesting and complex problem when it came to making sure that every locomotive was suitably unique with the British Railways system.
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GWR numbering was actually very clever and very organised per class
If I look at this video and a video from around 2 years ago. This channel has evolved and grown massively, and it’s amazing to see that. Brilliant video and very informative.
Very interesting. I learned something about the Southern system. I originally lived in the north of England so was more familiar with that system. Actually, I only remember one LMS number 524, a Midland 2p at Preston around 1950! I was totally familiar with the BR system.
I'm glad I'm forgetting all of this because I'd never remember it all! 😅😅😅
Top work buddy! 👍
I always wondered about the numbers system in steam days! Thank you will for a informative lesson👍👍
And that’s before we even get into TOPS…
your the number 1 team for keeping us upto date with all the working of the w.c.l. grad video thanks guys
On the topic of curious classification/numbering schemes from around the world, the Queensland Government Railways had a letter indicating the driving axles (A for 2, B for 3, C for 4), and the number was the cylinder diameter in inches. And when there was an already existing locomotive with the same letters and numbers, the letter was duplicated. So you got locomotives like BB18 1/4 1089. There were also oddballs like PB15 448. The P stood for passenger. All very odd.
Always a pleasure to watch him perform! .as a member money well spent.
I could do without the Liz Truss hand movements. I can hear perfectly well without the puppet movements which are distracting.
An excellent explanation of a very complicated number system (or systems!) - well done.
I love the "edited by Will Statford" rather than "Stratford" at the end. 😂
*checks video again* no way I can't believe I did that 😂
My personal preferance is that a loco should run as it last ran on BR, what i would give to see Mallard as 60022
Great fun. Especially the description of Kamikaze numbering!
Great informative video, presentation gets better and better.
Very enjoyable films. I enjoy the details especially the boilermaking. Well done.
Careful there Will. In LSWR days, the 0 (zero) number prefix indicated a loco (or class) on the 'duplicate list' i.e. obsolete and planned for scrapping ... e.g. classes 0415 (Adams Radial) 0282 (Ilfracombe Goods) etc. Brighton's duplicate list added a 6 to the running number, as new locos took the old number, hence Stepney was successively 55, 655 B655, 2655, 32655 and back to 55 (!). A1x class returned from the IoW for further service (where they of course had a W prefix in the unique sequence on the island), were renumbered according to their old Brighton identity. Quite what happened to Fenchurch, for years a resident of Newhaven Harbour, I've no explanation for ... and neither does anyone else I've raised the matter with!!
The numbering of LBSC locos generally was 'interesting', batches often getting numbered arsey-farcey, but they seemed -better- marginally less illogical than their neighbours!
I think the SER used an 'A' number suffix, but can't recall what either the LCDR or SECR did.
SECR - like the NER - its not a loco numbered to make life easier for the staff (as per Churchward or Bulleid) - its a capital asset that needs to be accounted for in the shareholders' interests. They want to know how many locos they own.
I belive that the secr reused the numbers of a expired loco is that they could just take the number plates off
Brilliant video. Thank you.
excellent never understood how it all worked
I also understand that the plates having a painted background was also important in the early days of steam. You may have two locos which look the same, but they have different numbers and this may also signify they are slightly different models so parts weren't interchangeable e.g. where different manufacturers built them.
Many lowly workers on the Victorian railway couldn't read or write, so having say a number 931 loco and a 932 loco meant nothing to them. It rolled in they would start work and realise parts wouldn't fit.
By painting the plate backgrounds e.g red for one manufacturer, green for another they would know which model they were dealing with.
What about colour blind workmen - red green being the most common form?
A railway company wants -- indeed, needs -- to know how many locos and other capital assets it has. Logically, if it has 605 locos then the highest numbered loco should have running number 605. When an older loco is withdrawn from capital stock for sale or scrapping, that running number becomes available to assign to the next loco that joins the fleet. Simple and logical when the size of the fleet was always increasing, as was the case in the nineteenth century. At that time not many companies used a numerical class system to designate classes of locos as the TOPS system does; instead they would name the class after the number of the first loco in the class to be build -- as the GWR did -- or after the lot order number -- as the LSWR did.
In any case the running number of any particular loco was only of interest to the running-shed staff who had to look after it, assign it to duties, and drive it.
Locomotive Numbers: Logic, Complexity...and Confusion!
Mid Hants Railway 'The Watercr love louis shirley
Excellent production! Personally, as far as steamers go, numbers are livery based...
The correct number an engine should wear? Obviously we live in the modern TOPS era, so it should logically be TOPS!
So logically in order of appearance:
• 47 579
• 98163 (SECR 263)
• 98036 (LBSCR 72 'Fenchurch')
• 98606 (LSWR 506)
• 98165 (SECR 65)
• 98751 (GWR 5051 'Earl Bathurst')
(^ This one's real btw! ^)
• 98708 (S&DJR 53808)
• 98770 (SR 34070 'Manston')
See, simple! Best way to get people to stop complaining about BR Black is to paint everything BR Corporate Blue. 😜
BR didn't just stick a figure in front of the number; they added x0-thousand to it. The LMS already had some locos with five-figure numbers starting with a 1 so by adding 40,000 they became 5xxxx whilst the four-figure ones became 4xxxx.
An loco with a number or less than four digits would also automatically get a five-figure one.
This could become an entire series on its own! Next week Great Western numbering “logic”!
I would say the best livery in my opinion is the one its famous for 4472 lner apple green 72 lbscr umber gwr 5700 gwr green lner 4478 lner garder blue ect
Kablammo! My brain has exploded...
Perhaps you could do an explanation of the LSWR loco classification system: H15, S15 and N15 are obviously related, but how were the letters arrived at? And what about the various classes of 4-4-0 that went T9, L10, S11 or whatever?
Go for the GWR broad gauge locos no numbers only names.
Very nicely explained. And love the outtakes at the end 😆
So if I'm understanding this correctly for the BR numbers:
Southern was 30000
Midland was 40000 and 50000
And LNER was 60000
If the GWR didn't have cast numberplates, would they have been 70000? Or was 70000 to 90000 reserved for the standards?
70000 and 80000 were Standards (tender and tank respectively), and 90000 was the WD 2-8-0s, (and later the 9Fs), and 10000 was used for diesels (after the LMS twins), and 20000 for electric locos, so there wouldn't really have been space for GWR locos anywa
Despite all that most loco crews call their loco by the last two or three numbers. Or depending on the locos reputation either nice or nasty words 😂
Is there a blue plaque that says Andy Johnson was shouted hear
So a rebuilt Bullied is rebuilt under BR and shouldn't be Black with a Bullied Number 😳?
My goodness, you sure like stirring up the pot, don't you?? First it's paint schemes, and now numbering. I'm just sitting here laughing, before I'm off to read all the comments. Cheers, Will.