@@adampetten5349 Ferrari fought for the title in 2017 and 2018. McLaren was amazing in 2020 and 2021. Not saying it's all his fault bc that'd be ridiculous, but it is a strange pattern...
Fernando joined mclaren in 2007 and they would have won the constructors but for the spy gate scandal and he joined Ferrari and they won in 2010 and they won four more races than they did in 2009 . Have you ever watched f1 😂
@@Matt-lg6vk what are you talking about? Nando only cares about winning championships, so doesn't really matter if he had a few more wins in a season or not.
@@Matt-lg6vk alonso joined a ferrari that won 6 drivers and 7 constructors titles in the previous decade, and in the following decade produces 2, maybe 3 actually good cars.....I'd say that counts as joining a team that collapsed
you should do one on the drivers who lucked out and joined teams just as they were on the rise (for example Sainz with every single career move he has made)
@@mjolnir1981 He was quick in the wet, and was an able 2nd driver to Hamilton. No more average than Webber or Riccardo. Barrichello in the same car came 3rd, so the car was quick but the driver had stable hands too.
My thoughts exactly, the MP4-28 was a big step down for McLaren, outsmarting itself by revolutionising their car concept, rather than refining the design that finished the previous year quickest. The fact that his McLaren replacement, Kevin Magnussen, was messed around just as much, show how much in denial McLaren was about how "good" its cars were, which (for the team) culminated in the painful 2018 season where their flaws were laid bare without the Honda power unit to blame
@@MDE_never_dies on average McLaren had the quickest in 2012, but due to a combination of missing the setup and silly issues with pit stops, they ended up missing out on both titles
Perez' career is really special in how he managed to join McLaren just as they slumped, and really knocked his career back quite a bit, but then left Racing Point just after its peak, anf join Red Bull when they managed to make a truly competitive car for the first time in years.
Reutemann move to Lotus in 1979. He was Ferrari's #1 driver for the 1978 season, which was the only season between 1975 and 1979 that Ferrari didn't win a title. Then he left for Lotus, who dominated the 1978 season, only to drop down in the standings as they didn't win a single race that year while Ferrari won the Constructor's Championship and scored a 1-2 in the Drivers one.
@@xyroah no thats was changing tyres in france from michelen to goodyear the effect being that williams and brabham won 1 race each while the rest won by michelen
I would argue the Russel's timing has been perfect.. he's shown a greater ability to wring decent performance out of a relatively poor car than his team-mate.. it can only do his reputation good.
@@titchlilly1294 *Potential of a WDC. Same with Leclerc and same with Verstappen before he won last year. You can’t expect a WDC without seeing how they: drive consistently at the front, are capable of making there own decisions, are consistently rational at the wheel and most importantly understand different situations at the front. Majority of this comes with experience, which is why Verstappen has a big edge over Leclerc this year. Imola last year springs to mind when I think of Russel. Total humiliation. Then I think of Quali at Spa last year. Amazing driving. We don’t know if he’s there yet
Really? I'd argue Alonso was rather lucky with his career choices until 2015. McLaren couldn't win a single race in 2006, but when Alonso joined in 2007 they had the fastest car on the grid all of a sudden. Similar story with Ferrari, they were nowhere in 2009 but managed to produce a car capable of winning the title just in time Alonso arrived. He was in the best position of any non-RedBull driver to win a title between 2010 and 2013. And from 2014 onwards, he wouldn't have won another title anywhere but in a Mercedes. Maybe he was unlucky in the title fights of 2007, 2010 and 2012, but not in his choice of teams.
@@simonbrunner3062 Well to be fair, yes, but McLaren were one of the fastest cars in 2006 and Alonso probably realized, that Renault would turn very bad after 2006.
He isnt tremendous, he is average at best. And what almost lost him a seat was his attitude and terrible driving… people are quick to forget how he crashed into Ocon constantly and only kept his seat because of money. And his race win… even Stroll got a podium in that race, that car was fast but had 2 awful drivers that made it look quick. People are quick to forget, and they quickly forgive the moment you become a 2nd driver for a world champion…
@@juicypanda677 you mean crashing in Monaco not letting Max get pole and having his car explode less than the rest?? Max is battling the Ferraris, Checo isn’t
What about Pastor Maldonado switching from Williams to Lotus for 2014? That team went from a win, lots of podium in 2013 to barely being able to get points in 2014.
tbf, he really wasn't in contention by the time his engine let go, i think he was hovering around 7th or so and then we all saw what he was truly capable of (a failure to qualify in 2019 and basically non existent in 2020)
I always supported Jean Alesi in my childhood/teen days. It is brutally unfair that he only had 1 victory when he actually was better driver than some World champions. So unlucky.
The cases of Warwick and Alesi are massive "What if" situations. What if Senna didn't block the 1986 move to Lotus for Warwick? What if Alesi wasn't screwed around by Williams and signed for them in 1991?
The better move for Warwick would’ve been the No.5 Williams seat for 1985. Lotus’s days as a competitive team were numbered, look at Warwick’s 1990 season with them, but Williams were just coming out of a slump and had Honda engines. By the end ‘85 the Williams was the car to have, and I shouldn’t have to tell you just how fast it was in ‘86-7. My prediction, if Piquet still slammed into Tamburello at the start of ‘87, Warwick would be 1987 F1 World Champion, something no one was ever gonna do with Lotus.
Missing some key ones here: Sebastian Vettel - Aston Martin Fernando Alonso - Ferrari & McLaren (the 2nd time) Michael Schumacher - Mercedes Daniel Ricciardo & Nico Hulkenberg - Renault David Coulthard - Red Bull Valtteri Bottas - Williams
Schmacher was clearly in F1 for fun not for competition and Coulthard knew that RedBull needed help and developement furthermore he didn't leave Mclaren by choise
DC's RB run was ok, taking a below average car to the podium a few times - RBR was back then wasn't great. Hell, Toro Rosso beat em to their first win in 2008.
Bottas left Williams at the perfect time, they were terrible for his rookie season and finished 3rd the next two. Season after the slide started and after that Mercedes. He has made some great decisions career wise.
Going back to Warwick later in his career. He joined the BTCC Alfa Romeo team in 1995. But Alfa having won the BTCC title in 94' went back to Italy leaving the team to be run by Prodrive as a customer. Warwick ended up in a customer Alfa and every other team had jumped forward.
I think that whole mess ultimately ended Ron Dennis highly decorated career. Where is he now. Forgotten by most. They should do a video about the end of Ron Dennis and while we are at it Luca Montezemolo.
@@Phantom096 Dennis was already behind the scenes, Whitmarsh and his boy love for Button, were the main factor to change a race winning car to the first McLaren auto that didn’t conquer a podium in 20 years...
@@coppilcus Yeah so unfortunate in that whole mess Perez career did not pan out like it should have. Getting those podiums in only his second year and in a midfield car had him inline with the accomplishments of F1 legends. Now he will end his days playing second fiddle to Max.
Alesi made the same mistake again when he moved to Benetton for 1996, he joined the team that had just won back-to-back drivers titles, but Schumacher had taken all the best staff with him to Ferrari and Benetton slumped.
I remember when Lewis went to Mercedes thinking WTF is he thinking, this is insane - boy was I/we wrong about that one! I do feel bad for Russell this year, although the silver arrows will get it together soon, maybe not for this but certainly for next season.
Strangely enough, I feel like Russell is still happy being on the team. He comes across to me as someone who is frustrated Merc aren't dominating, but delighted that he's in a car that's at least capable being competitive. I think he's just glad he doesn't have to drive the Williams anymore.
Ah yes, the “bounce back”. Do you know who also played the “we are meant to be at the top” card? Williams, Mclaren, Ferrari and many many more who never came back to challenge for a title for a good few years. Williams is still at the bottom
I get what you're saying about Russell's move to Mercedes just as they lose their place on the top of the perch, but I think this season has actually helped show his ability. At the very least he's currently getting more out of the car than Hamilton is. When one of the best F1 drivers ever is your teammate and you're outperforming him I think it reflects very well on you.
@VERY EVIL PERSON FROM ILLUMINATI If they stick with F1 for years I can see Mercedes bouncing back eventually. In the past Ferrari and McLaren have shown the ability to have down years and figure things out or jump to the front of the back when new rule changes come in. At this point it's looking increasingly unlikely that this year we'll see a Mercedes bounce back to where they're the team of the last few years. At best I'm hoping that by he end of he year they've figured enough out to be fighting for positions on the front few rows with Red Bull and Ferrari. Hell, I'm hoping any other team start giving Red Bull and Ferrari pause. I'd probably prefer McLaren over Mercedes but I'd take anyone. Even Haas becuase they're American team and I'm American myself.
Martin Brundle... ? He had a decent run at Benetton for literally one season, but that was about it. It wasn't like anyone at that time was expecting him to get in the Mclaren and become a WC or even a regular fixture on the podium.
To be fair to Martin, Flavio Briatore has stated that his biggest regret was sacking Brundle at the end of ‘92. No one in the following seasons got as close to Michael as he did, granted Michael was in his first full season, but Martin was arguably Schumacher’s best teammate until probably Barrichello. Had Brundle been kept on, he would’ve won a race surely at some point throughout the mid 90’s, it’d take some Chris Amon levels of luck for him not to
I'd rank Perez above Rosberg on this list. The timing of Perez' move to McLaren was just devastating. You can say McLaren was even worse than Force India in the years after, but that doesn't make it better. In 2012, Perez was seen as a certain future Ferrari driver. He gave his future in red up for an offer by the team who had the fastest car at the time. It was a logical decision. And almost ended his career. On top of the unexpected backwards step it was in performance compared even to the Sauber he had driven previously, he was stigmatized as a driver who "had his chance and blew it". It took him seven years of giant-killing performances and unlikely podiums at Force India / Racing Point to shake that label off. For Rosberg, by contrast, the move to Mercedes ended up bringing him the title, even if it took longer than he would've hoped. And Mercedes' fall from grace in 2010 was neither as high nor quite as surprising as McLaren's in 2013. Not if you watched BrawnGP's form curve in 2009 closely and took into consideration that they probably threw every last penny they had left in the title fight rather than in the development of the 2010 car.
Yeah, McLaren used Perez as a scapegoat for their horrible performance, and then they blamed it on Honda then finally realised that it was their fault as well
Fisichella's timing was interesting as well: Jordan -> Benetton 1998, Benetton 2001 -> Jordan 2002. And in 2005 he went back to Benetton/Renault with more luck this time. 😅
I think it's maybe because 98 wasn't as dramatic a fall compared with some of the others, first half of 98 it was 3rd best car just a bigger gap too top 2 then 97 he also got a pole in 98 (jordon 2002 wasn't was actually better then the 2001 beneton lol dno if he choose to leave or truli was flavios choice to come in at renault. I know button nearly lost the drive for alonso.
I'd like to mention Daniil Kvyat. After standout performances at Toro Rosso in 2014, Red Bull chose to promote him, rather than team mate Jean-Eric Vergne, to replace Ferrari bound Sebastian Vettel for 2015. But Red Bull then produced their worst car since 2008. He didn't even start the opener in Australia with a gearbox problem enroute to the grid, but as the season progressed, he at least was able to match Daniel Ricciardo, just edging his Australian team mate by 3 points, but only for 7th in the drivers championship, with the team dropping to 4th in the Constructors Championship, not just behind Mercedes, but Ferrari and Williams as well. His best finish of the year was a fortune 2nd place in Hungary
I don’t think you can say Ricciardo would have won championships during the red bull domination because title fights are so different and Seb was unstoppable in that car
I dont know how 1994 gets such a bad rap. Yes the Peugeot V10 was unreliable, but Mclaren scored 8 podiums out of 16 races. In 1995 with Mercedes, they not only scored less points, & only 2 podiums. In 1996 they had 6 podiums.Again less than the MP4/9 Scored.
Alesi's probably the biggest "What if?" I can think of in F1 history (aside from 1994 had Senna not perished). Had basically signed with a team that would go on to dominate the sport in the mid-90s but since they didn't actually announce his acquisition in a timely fashion he took his services elsewhere right as the team he then joined completely dropped the ball. He would have at least had one runner-up campaign with Williams had the team actually managed to keep him for one of their golden years, if not world champion.
I truly agree with this guy, when george enter mercedes this year, the cars wasnt a championship contender anymore. He's at the right plafe but wrong time
Williams has trashed a lot of careers over the last twenty years, locking promising drivers up and wasting years: Mark Webber, Nico Rosberg, Zanardi, Russell, Nico Hulkenberg
@@gigsawsoljier1408 Alesi was worse than Irvine, Barrichello and Frentzen. Let alone Schumi. Look at his record against Herbert compared to these guys.
@@gigsawsoljier1408 You can't seriously think Alesi is past his prime in 1998. Irvine was a year older when he faced Herbert in 2000. Alesi is a very good driver no doubt. But others were a bit better. So during a very short 4 year period all of them faced Herbert between 1996-2000. Frentzen went 13-3 against Herbert, Barrichello went 13-3 against Herbert, Irvine went 13-3 against Herbert but Alesi only went 10-6. There is a website called F1 metrics which rates drivers based on their performances irrleative to the performances of the machine. And given these are 4 drivers in the same generation, this is a solid enough comparison. They have Frentzen at #24, Barrichello at #26, Irvine at #32 and Alesi at #57 all-time. Which basically proves my point.
Nelson Piquet; World Champion 1987, moved to Lotus for '88 believing that continuing with Honda power would be the key to success, and managed about three third places to the McLarens (also with Honda power) 🤷♂️
Lotus hit a sharp decline through that period. Derek Warwick said that the 1990 car he drove was one of the scariest in his career as it had no chassis rigidity and it flexed mid corner. The car was a little better in ‘88 but seeing as it had Honda power, and can be fairly well compared to McLaren, it’s easy to see it was poor on the chassis front.
Piquet didn't care for performances but only for money. Ducarouge can tell from his collaboration with Nelson. His 87 tamburello crash diminished his abilities and he wanted to ensure his future retirement. Comparison : Senna earned 1,65 millions $ in 87 while Piquet earned 6 millions $ in 88/89
How about drivers who were unfairly dismissed by their teams. The criteria being the team sacked the driver, rather than the driver leaving on their own terms. Perez being shown the door by McLaren at the end of 2013 would be on there, Daniil Kvyat after 4 races of 2016 with Red Bull, Damon Hill sacked by Williams when he was on the verge of winning the title in 1996, Jenson Button shown the door by Renault even after he did as the team suggested and his overall form improved in 2002, Nico Hulkenburg dropped by Williams after 2010 despite taking a stunning pole position in Brazil and matching very experienced team mate Rubens Barrichello. There are probably more examples, but these are ones that stick out to me
@Duval-In-The-Wall not defending Renault, but I reckon Briatore decided to not renew Trulli's contract in a fit of rage after Trulli was caught napping at the French Grand Prix on the last lap, letting a podium finish slip through his fingers, handing it to the second Ferrari of Barrichello
I would also include: Eddie Irvine - Jaguar (2000) Pastor Maldonado - Lotus (2014) Fernando Alonso - McLaren (2015) Daniil Kvyat - Red Bull (2015) Sebastian Vettel - Aston Martin (2021)
Senna to Williams was a disaster too. The team did finds it's speed later after he died, but for him it was a spectacular failure. That car was just about undriveable in the time he was there. That is why he died, trying to get something out of a really terrible car.
I'd hardly call the 2022 year a total slump. Even the drivers say for Merc to be "bad" and still be in third place is pretty damn good. Not like Williams forever slump
Surprised that Heikki is on the list. 2007 was his rookie in F1. He easily beat his veteran teammate Fisichella. What more do you want from a driver joining a new teammate not competing for wins and championships?
I think you maybe don't understand the title of the video? It's not about drivers underperforming or something like that, this is about teams going downwards and that was definitly the case with Renault in 2007, in 2006 they won both championships - in 2007 they fell back into the midfield and only scored 1 podium.
Could teams wrap a wire around the floor stays or would it be illegal ? Or machine a spiral effect into the part ? It’s the way big long chimneys don’t sway so much in strong wind ? 🤷🏻♂️ I’m thinking along the lines of cleaning up the airflow caused by the wire attached
George Russell not necessarily join at a wrong time. Joining the team when the team is in low tides avoided a civil war between the two drivers and made the generation transition smooth
ah the 1992 Ferrari, it was the most beautiful dog of a car that ever came out from Maranello. If performance matched its looks then it would defeat Williams easily that season
What a shame for Jean Alesi, he rejected Williams for Ferrari huge mistake I mean can't blame him it's a huge honor to drive for Scuderia but he sure might be a champion for Williams it really suits his driving skills.
Have you done the oppossite? Like bottas leaving mercedes and joining alfa romeo, it ended up being better until now and i don't think mercedes will surpass the italians by a considerable margin this year
What about when Michael Schumacher bought out his brothers Jordan contract at the end of 1998 so that he could join Williams… only for Williams to then be behind a genuine title challenging Jordan team in the 1999 season. I found that hilarious but it was certainly the wrong move at the wrong time. Most of Alonso’s post McLaren career has been to the wrong team at the wrong time including when he rejoined them.
"sebastian vettels reputation was at its height after winning the 2014 world championship" most people hated him, he didnt have a good reputation he had a terrible one his reputation is way better now. He was known for being arrogant, and people were tired of seeing him win (i have no clue how he turned that around)
What about Button in BAR/Honda? He pretty much wasted half of his career driving subpar machinery. Granted, it payed off in 2009, but I feel like his career could have been a lot better than it was.
@@realwahooyahoo Was it really, though? 2004 and 2006 were only seasons where the team was good, rest were either mediocre or complete disaster. I still think that he would have done much better if he stayed in Renault or if he joined teams like McLaren.
@@realwahooyahoo Well, given that their first season was abysmal, no. But all of their seasons from 2000 to 2003 were pretty much the same - some potential but no delivery. 2007 and 2008, on other hand, were almost as bad as 1999. On bright side, Button did manage to get out the most from the machinery and his patience was rewarded in 2009, at the point where almost everyone has written him off, so I guess it all turned out OK.
Williams has always been a joke in terms of driver management. i'll never get the love and praise they got when Williams left F1 and when Frank died. it literally pissed me off. Frank was a massive joke.
@@jiboo6850 Maybe but they also won a few tittles. How about Lotus reputation for killing drivers. Two Legends Jim Clark and Ronnie Peterson and that’s just two.
Senna to Williams in 1994 The best driver ever going to the reining champions and dying after trying to get the car lighter for a good enough performance
Ahh yes a compilation of Fernando Alonso's career choices
So frustrating tbh because everytime he leaves the team, they start to succeed. Just what the hell is it??
@@shotarokaneda5922 maybe having alonso on the team brings with it a bunch of stress or pressure, either that or hes just really unlucky
2010 Ferrari was a lot better than 2009. 2015 McLaren was similar to 2014. 2021 Alpine only a little worse than 2020.
@@shotarokaneda5922 Ferrari never got as close with Vettel. Charles?...
We'll see.
@@adampetten5349 Ferrari fought for the title in 2017 and 2018. McLaren was amazing in 2020 and 2021. Not saying it's all his fault bc that'd be ridiculous, but it is a strange pattern...
So basically almost whole Fernando Alonso career
And yet he kept the car competitive
Fernando joined mclaren in 2007 and they would have won the constructors but for the spy gate scandal and he joined Ferrari and they won in 2010 and they won four more races than they did in 2009 . Have you ever watched f1 😂
@@Matt-lg6vk what are you talking about? Nando only cares about winning championships, so doesn't really matter if he had a few more wins in a season or not.
@@Matt-lg6vk Do you know the definition of “almost”? and this Ferrari that you mentioned wasn’t as good
@@Matt-lg6vk alonso joined a ferrari that won 6 drivers and 7 constructors titles in the previous decade, and in the following decade produces 2, maybe 3 actually good cars.....I'd say that counts as joining a team that collapsed
you should do one on the drivers who lucked out and joined teams just as they were on the rise (for example Sainz with every single career move he has made)
Jenson Button. A bang average driver who ended up with a WDC
Hamilton would be a star on that list
@@mjolnir1981 He was quick in the wet, and was an able 2nd driver to Hamilton. No more average than Webber or Riccardo. Barrichello in the same car came 3rd, so the car was quick but the driver had stable hands too.
He's certainly the opposite of Alonso in career choices.
@@mjolnir1981 Button wasn’t average
I've always felt people harshly gave Perez a bad mark for 2013, but they completely forget that Mclaren were making all the wrong decisions by then
Did they forget George Russell to Merc?
@@thejailbreaker8675 for that i still remember.
Completely agree! Perez got shafted by McLaren that year.
My thoughts exactly, the MP4-28 was a big step down for McLaren, outsmarting itself by revolutionising their car concept, rather than refining the design that finished the previous year quickest. The fact that his McLaren replacement, Kevin Magnussen, was messed around just as much, show how much in denial McLaren was about how "good" its cars were, which (for the team) culminated in the painful 2018 season where their flaws were laid bare without the Honda power unit to blame
@@MDE_never_dies on average McLaren had the quickest in 2012, but due to a combination of missing the setup and silly issues with pit stops, they ended up missing out on both titles
I would also mention Vettel. Joining a pink Mercedes, just to have it turn into a green Williams after signing the contract
His Ferrari move was great tough
Now it's a green Red Bull
@@uap24 „press X to doubt“
the amount of time Mclearn has made in this video is simply incredible.
(Ron Dennis)
@@BigCat553 yup.
I'm surprised they didn't mention McLaren-Honda in 2015.
@@cesarxmbert GP2 engine , GP2......
Perez' career is really special in how he managed to join McLaren just as they slumped, and really knocked his career back quite a bit, but then left Racing Point just after its peak, anf join Red Bull when they managed to make a truly competitive car for the first time in years.
Reutemann move to Lotus in 1979. He was Ferrari's #1 driver for the 1978 season, which was the only season between 1975 and 1979 that Ferrari didn't win a title. Then he left for Lotus, who dominated the 1978 season, only to drop down in the standings as they didn't win a single race that year while Ferrari won the Constructor's Championship and scored a 1-2 in the Drivers one.
yes chapman designed to work, everybody copied and did better
Always felt carlos should have won the championship in 1981 from piquet but sadly that’s racing.
@@xyroah no thats was changing tyres in france from michelen to goodyear the effect being that williams and brabham won 1 race each while the rest won by michelen
@@xyroah yep. I know how he feels too, jai bhushan.
Which opened the door for Jody Schekter to join Ferrari at the right time and win the 79 world title.
I would argue the Russel's timing has been perfect.. he's shown a greater ability to wring decent performance out of a relatively poor car than his team-mate.. it can only do his reputation good.
extremely similar to the points they outlined for Ricciardo at Red Bull in this video
So true and if Mercedes’ get their act together Russell could be wdc by years end. He is that good of a driver.
@@titchlilly1294 *Potential of a WDC. Same with Leclerc and same with Verstappen before he won last year. You can’t expect a WDC without seeing how they: drive consistently at the front, are capable of making there own decisions, are consistently rational at the wheel and most importantly understand different situations at the front. Majority of this comes with experience, which is why Verstappen has a big edge over Leclerc this year. Imola last year springs to mind when I think of Russel. Total humiliation. Then I think of Quali at Spa last year. Amazing driving. We don’t know if he’s there yet
@@titchlilly1294 I can't see Mercedes getting anywhere this season. They just don't seem to have a clue.
@@titchlilly1294 I think Mercedes is too far behind at this point
Fernando could take up half the freaking list
Fernando Alonso, he Alone can fill the whole list
Such an unlucky guy
Mclaren's slump was already well underway by the time Fernando Alonso rejoined the team in 2015.
Jean Alesi as well
Really? I'd argue Alonso was rather lucky with his career choices until 2015. McLaren couldn't win a single race in 2006, but when Alonso joined in 2007 they had the fastest car on the grid all of a sudden. Similar story with Ferrari, they were nowhere in 2009 but managed to produce a car capable of winning the title just in time Alonso arrived. He was in the best position of any non-RedBull driver to win a title between 2010 and 2013. And from 2014 onwards, he wouldn't have won another title anywhere but in a Mercedes.
Maybe he was unlucky in the title fights of 2007, 2010 and 2012, but not in his choice of teams.
@@simonbrunner3062 Well to be fair, yes, but McLaren were one of the fastest cars in 2006 and Alonso probably realized, that Renault would turn very bad after 2006.
@@eggselent9814 In 2005, you mean? Because in 2006 they certainly weren't.
Sergio Perez almost lost his F1 career because of that lousy McLaren. Vijay saved this tremendous driver.
He isnt tremendous, he is average at best. And what almost lost him a seat was his attitude and terrible driving… people are quick to forget how he crashed into Ocon constantly and only kept his seat because of money. And his race win… even Stroll got a podium in that race, that car was fast but had 2 awful drivers that made it look quick. People are quick to forget, and they quickly forgive the moment you become a 2nd driver for a world champion…
@@ferst262 Nerd
@@razburry8001 sorry for being right
@@ferst262 An average at best driver wouldn’t be performing this well in a Redbull especially along a driver like Max
@@juicypanda677 you mean crashing in Monaco not letting Max get pole and having his car explode less than the rest?? Max is battling the Ferraris, Checo isn’t
This video could be called "Fernando Alonso's F1 career"
Piquet in Lotus, 1988
Reutimann in Lotus , 1979
Alesi and Berger in Benetton, 1996
Irvine in Jaguar, 2000
Vettel in Aston Martin, 2021
They did say they could not fit them all in one video.
What about Raikkonen when he returned to Ferrari in 2014 and the team produced their worst car for over two decades.
Kvyat in Red Bill 2015
I don't think anyone expected aston Martin to be fighting at the front when Vettel joined. I was heavily nerfed compared to the year before though
@@alexpeak16 and now maybe Ayumu Uehara 2022 with Wood Brothers Racing.
What about Pastor Maldonado switching from Williams to Lotus for 2014? That team went from a win, lots of podium in 2013 to barely being able to get points in 2014.
Yeah but Maldonado never had good luck, apart from 2012 Spanish GP.
the ultimate bad move team he left moved up the grid and team he joined fell down big time.
From what I heard, Pastor almost joined Ferrari in 2014
Fernando Alonso couldn’t even catch a break in the 2017 Indy 500 😢
He did catch a break, just not the right type.
@@asgdfgify true
Alonso 2022: I think there is an issue. I cant belive it. WHAT A JOKE! AAAARGHHHH!!!!
tbf, he really wasn't in contention by the time his engine let go, i think he was hovering around 7th or so
and then we all saw what he was truly capable of (a failure to qualify in 2019 and basically non existent in 2020)
I always supported Jean Alesi in my childhood/teen days. It is brutally unfair that he only had 1 victory when he actually was better driver than some World champions. So unlucky.
I love these “10 times…” videos from The Race👌🏼
The cases of Warwick and Alesi are massive "What if" situations. What if Senna didn't block the 1986 move to Lotus for Warwick? What if Alesi wasn't screwed around by Williams and signed for them in 1991?
Senna persuaded team that they couldn't support both drivers properly.
The better move for Warwick would’ve been the No.5 Williams seat for 1985. Lotus’s days as a competitive team were numbered, look at Warwick’s 1990 season with them, but Williams were just coming out of a slump and had Honda engines. By the end ‘85 the Williams was the car to have, and I shouldn’t have to tell you just how fast it was in ‘86-7. My prediction, if Piquet still slammed into Tamburello at the start of ‘87, Warwick would be 1987 F1 World Champion, something no one was ever gonna do with Lotus.
the fact is ferrari bought the williams contract out. think he would have more wins but not sure he'd of been champ.
@@leggera1 Derek Warwick for me is still the 2nd most underrated driver from 1980s.
@@bumblebity2902 yup. Even Alain Prost also.
1. Fernando Alonso - Mclaren Honda 2015
2. Fernando Alonso - Renault 2008
3. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari 2010
Missing some key ones here:
Sebastian Vettel - Aston Martin
Fernando Alonso - Ferrari & McLaren (the 2nd time)
Michael Schumacher - Mercedes
Daniel Ricciardo & Nico Hulkenberg - Renault
David Coulthard - Red Bull
Valtteri Bottas - Williams
Schmacher was clearly in F1 for fun not for competition and Coulthard knew that RedBull needed help and developement furthermore he didn't leave Mclaren by choise
@@quantum1076 Daniel Ricciardo move to McLaren consider to be bad one too
Last year McLaren was quite a good car for the midfield actually, Daniel just couldn't perform as well as Lando.
DC's RB run was ok, taking a below average car to the podium a few times - RBR was back then wasn't great. Hell, Toro Rosso beat em to their first win in 2008.
Bottas left Williams at the perfect time, they were terrible for his rookie season and finished 3rd the next two. Season after the slide started and after that Mercedes.
He has made some great decisions career wise.
Going back to Warwick later in his career. He joined the BTCC Alfa Romeo team in 1995. But Alfa having won the BTCC title in 94' went back to Italy leaving the team to be run by Prodrive as a customer. Warwick ended up in a customer Alfa and every other team had jumped forward.
The FIA had mandated aero aids after the controversy of 94 and Alfa's advantage was neutralised
McLaren blame Perez but Jason didn't get any podiums either
I think that whole mess ultimately ended Ron Dennis highly decorated career.
Where is he now. Forgotten by most.
They should do a video about the end of Ron Dennis and while we are at it Luca Montezemolo.
@@Phantom096 Dennis was already behind the scenes, Whitmarsh and his boy love for Button, were the main factor to change a race winning car to the first McLaren auto that didn’t conquer a podium in 20 years...
@@coppilcus Yeah so unfortunate in that whole mess Perez career did not pan out like it should have.
Getting those podiums in only his second year and in a midfield car had him inline with the accomplishments of F1 legends.
Now he will end his days playing second fiddle to Max.
Great video. 👏👏 love these F1 history videos.
Alesi made the same mistake again when he moved to Benetton for 1996, he joined the team that had just won back-to-back drivers titles, but Schumacher had taken all the best staff with him to Ferrari and Benetton slumped.
I thought Schumi only took Ross Brawn with him
I remember when Lewis went to Mercedes thinking WTF is he thinking, this is insane - boy was I/we wrong about that one! I do feel bad for Russell this year, although the silver arrows will get it together soon, maybe not for this but certainly for next season.
Strangely enough, I feel like Russell is still happy being on the team. He comes across to me as someone who is frustrated Merc aren't dominating, but delighted that he's in a car that's at least capable being competitive. I think he's just glad he doesn't have to drive the Williams anymore.
@@martincurran4985 Absolutely. Also he is getting a chance to show his skill without it being credited to a monstrous machine.
Ah yes, the “bounce back”. Do you know who also played the “we are meant to be at the top” card? Williams, Mclaren, Ferrari and many many more who never came back to challenge for a title for a good few years. Williams is still at the bottom
I get what you're saying about Russell's move to Mercedes just as they lose their place on the top of the perch, but I think this season has actually helped show his ability. At the very least he's currently getting more out of the car than Hamilton is. When one of the best F1 drivers ever is your teammate and you're outperforming him I think it reflects very well on you.
@VERY EVIL PERSON FROM ILLUMINATI If they stick with F1 for years I can see Mercedes bouncing back eventually. In the past Ferrari and McLaren have shown the ability to have down years and figure things out or jump to the front of the back when new rule changes come in. At this point it's looking increasingly unlikely that this year we'll see a Mercedes bounce back to where they're the team of the last few years. At best I'm hoping that by he end of he year they've figured enough out to be fighting for positions on the front few rows with Red Bull and Ferrari. Hell, I'm hoping any other team start giving Red Bull and Ferrari pause. I'd probably prefer McLaren over Mercedes but I'd take anyone. Even Haas becuase they're American team and I'm American myself.
Martin Brundle... ? He had a decent run at Benetton for literally one season, but that was about it. It wasn't like anyone at that time was expecting him to get in the Mclaren and become a WC or even a regular fixture on the podium.
To be fair to Martin, Flavio Briatore has stated that his biggest regret was sacking Brundle at the end of ‘92. No one in the following seasons got as close to Michael as he did, granted Michael was in his first full season, but Martin was arguably Schumacher’s best teammate until probably Barrichello. Had Brundle been kept on, he would’ve won a race surely at some point throughout the mid 90’s, it’d take some Chris Amon levels of luck for him not to
its more he expected better things from the mclaren then people expecting him to be a big hit.
I'd rank Perez above Rosberg on this list. The timing of Perez' move to McLaren was just devastating. You can say McLaren was even worse than Force India in the years after, but that doesn't make it better. In 2012, Perez was seen as a certain future Ferrari driver. He gave his future in red up for an offer by the team who had the fastest car at the time. It was a logical decision. And almost ended his career. On top of the unexpected backwards step it was in performance compared even to the Sauber he had driven previously, he was stigmatized as a driver who "had his chance and blew it". It took him seven years of giant-killing performances and unlikely podiums at Force India / Racing Point to shake that label off.
For Rosberg, by contrast, the move to Mercedes ended up bringing him the title, even if it took longer than he would've hoped. And Mercedes' fall from grace in 2010 was neither as high nor quite as surprising as McLaren's in 2013. Not if you watched BrawnGP's form curve in 2009 closely and took into consideration that they probably threw every last penny they had left in the title fight rather than in the development of the 2010 car.
Yeah, McLaren used Perez as a scapegoat for their horrible performance, and then they blamed it on Honda then finally realised that it was their fault as well
Fisichella's timing was interesting as well: Jordan -> Benetton 1998, Benetton 2001 -> Jordan 2002. And in 2005 he went back to Benetton/Renault with more luck this time. 😅
I think it's maybe because 98 wasn't as dramatic a fall compared with some of the others, first half of 98 it was 3rd best car just a bigger gap too top 2 then 97 he also got a pole in 98 (jordon 2002 wasn't was actually better then the 2001 beneton lol dno if he choose to leave or truli was flavios choice to come in at renault. I know button nearly lost the drive for alonso.
Fisichella just have more skills and lucks when joining Renault. Simple.
I'd like to mention Daniil Kvyat. After standout performances at Toro Rosso in 2014, Red Bull chose to promote him, rather than team mate Jean-Eric Vergne, to replace Ferrari bound Sebastian Vettel for 2015. But Red Bull then produced their worst car since 2008. He didn't even start the opener in Australia with a gearbox problem enroute to the grid, but as the season progressed, he at least was able to match Daniel Ricciardo, just edging his Australian team mate by 3 points, but only for 7th in the drivers championship, with the team dropping to 4th in the Constructors Championship, not just behind Mercedes, but Ferrari and Williams as well. His best finish of the year was a fortune 2nd place in Hungary
Very good point tbf, he was strong in 2015 but the car was not
Alternative title : Alonsos full career
I can see why alonso wasn't mentioned. Half the video would have been about him if he was.
Cool to see that Pérez is the most played part of the video.
8:00 the burn on that one
Good thing that we left Alonso outside the list, it ain't fair for the rest of the people.
I don’t think you can say Ricciardo would have won championships during the red bull domination because title fights are so different and Seb was unstoppable in that car
Jean Alesi in a nutshell:
I dont know how 1994 gets such a bad rap. Yes the Peugeot V10 was unreliable, but Mclaren scored 8 podiums out of 16 races. In 1995 with Mercedes, they not only scored less points, & only 2 podiums. In 1996 they had 6 podiums.Again less than the MP4/9 Scored.
Every driver who joined Lotus and Tyrrell after 1978.
Love these kind of videos, keep up the good work 👏
Alesi's probably the biggest "What if?" I can think of in F1 history (aside from 1994 had Senna not perished). Had basically signed with a team that would go on to dominate the sport in the mid-90s but since they didn't actually announce his acquisition in a timely fashion he took his services elsewhere right as the team he then joined completely dropped the ball.
He would have at least had one runner-up campaign with Williams had the team actually managed to keep him for one of their golden years, if not world champion.
I truly agree with this guy, when george enter mercedes this year, the cars wasnt a championship contender anymore. He's at the right plafe but wrong time
New title: Fernando alonsos career
Williams has trashed a lot of careers over the last twenty years, locking promising drivers up and wasting years: Mark Webber, Nico Rosberg, Zanardi, Russell, Nico Hulkenberg
Alonso and Alesi have had truly tragic career choices they are both top 5 Drivers of all time (in terms of pure pace and skill)
I knew what number 1 was going to be before I even started the video Jean should have been a world champion
I have heard that many times your not the only one. 👍
shame we never got a schumi v alesi battle.
@@gigsawsoljier1408 Alesi was worse than Irvine, Barrichello and Frentzen. Let alone Schumi. Look at his record against Herbert compared to these guys.
@@chamindujanith6337 look at his rechord in the tyrell... he also beat herbert in sauber?? also by that point he was past his prime
@@gigsawsoljier1408 You can't seriously think Alesi is past his prime in 1998. Irvine was a year older when he faced Herbert in 2000. Alesi is a very good driver no doubt. But others were a bit better. So during a very short 4 year period all of them faced Herbert between 1996-2000. Frentzen went 13-3 against Herbert, Barrichello went 13-3 against Herbert, Irvine went 13-3 against Herbert but Alesi only went 10-6. There is a website called F1 metrics which rates drivers based on their performances irrleative to the performances of the machine. And given these are 4 drivers in the same generation, this is a solid enough comparison. They have Frentzen at #24, Barrichello at #26, Irvine at #32 and Alesi at #57 all-time. Which basically proves my point.
As the great Murraye walker (god bless him) used to say, "anything can happen in formula one and it usually does,".
How about Chris Amon? The man is really unlucky, which s a shame because he is considered a very good driver...
Just call it the Fernando Alonso list
Nelson Piquet; World Champion 1987, moved to Lotus for '88 believing that continuing with Honda power would be the key to success, and managed about three third places to the McLarens (also with Honda power) 🤷♂️
Lotus hit a sharp decline through that period. Derek Warwick said that the 1990 car he drove was one of the scariest in his career as it had no chassis rigidity and it flexed mid corner. The car was a little better in ‘88 but seeing as it had Honda power, and can be fairly well compared to McLaren, it’s easy to see it was poor on the chassis front.
Then in 1989 Lotus lost the Honda engines, and switched to Judd. It was probably his worst season in F1, as he finished 12th in the WDC.
Piquet didn't care for performances but only for money.
Ducarouge can tell from his collaboration with Nelson.
His 87 tamburello crash diminished his abilities and he wanted to ensure his future retirement. Comparison : Senna earned 1,65 millions $ in 87 while Piquet earned 6 millions $ in 88/89
How about drivers who were unfairly dismissed by their teams. The criteria being the team sacked the driver, rather than the driver leaving on their own terms. Perez being shown the door by McLaren at the end of 2013 would be on there, Daniil Kvyat after 4 races of 2016 with Red Bull, Damon Hill sacked by Williams when he was on the verge of winning the title in 1996, Jenson Button shown the door by Renault even after he did as the team suggested and his overall form improved in 2002, Nico Hulkenburg dropped by Williams after 2010 despite taking a stunning pole position in Brazil and matching very experienced team mate Rubens Barrichello.
There are probably more examples, but these are ones that stick out to me
Perez being shown the door at Racing Point in 2021
@@slow_mk8 well, kind of, but it wasn't all bad, he found a seat at Red Bull in 2021 of course
Jarno Trulli at Renault in 2004 despite the fact he won a race AND led Alonso in points
@Duval-In-The-Wall not defending Renault, but I reckon Briatore decided to not renew Trulli's contract in a fit of rage after Trulli was caught napping at the French Grand Prix on the last lap, letting a podium finish slip through his fingers, handing it to the second Ferrari of Barrichello
Before this season every The Race journo was very sure of Mercedes delivering a competitive car for race wins
I would also include:
Eddie Irvine - Jaguar (2000)
Pastor Maldonado - Lotus (2014)
Fernando Alonso - McLaren (2015)
Daniil Kvyat - Red Bull (2015)
Sebastian Vettel - Aston Martin (2021)
If the 2015 red bull wasn't a shit box kvyat would have a win
Alexander Rossi - Marussia (2015)
@@EricBurns1 we could've had Rossi back at manor in 2016 for haryanto but he declined, worked out since he won the 500
@@EricBurns1 nah, they were a backmarker in 2014 and still in 2015, not much of a difference.
Quick question: Where do channels like The Race and WTF1 get their F1 B-roll footage? Is there a website I don't know about?
1. Alonso
2. Alonso
3. Alonso
4. Alonso
5. Alonso
6. Alonso
7. Alonso
8. Alonso
9. Alonso
10. Villeneuve
sPain
The video ended at 00:40
Senna's move to Williams was one of biggest failures ever...the car sucked and it killed him.
Senna to Williams was a disaster too. The team did finds it's speed later after he died, but for him it was a spectacular failure. That car was just about undriveable in the time he was there. That is why he died, trying to get something out of a really terrible car.
Webber at Williams has to top this especially when he did the deal behind his managers back
5:29 😍🙏🐋
I'd hardly call the 2022 year a total slump. Even the drivers say for Merc to be "bad" and still be in third place is pretty damn good. Not like Williams forever slump
Elio de Angelis Brabham 1986… :(
Suprised not to see World Champion Nelson Piquet Joining Lotus in 1988
Good shout!!!
You could just include Alonso's entire career here
You could fill 3 slots with Ricciardo
Surprised that Heikki is on the list. 2007 was his rookie in F1. He easily beat his veteran teammate Fisichella. What more do you want from a driver joining a new teammate not competing for wins and championships?
I think you maybe don't understand the title of the video? It's not about drivers underperforming or something like that, this is about teams going downwards and that was definitly the case with Renault in 2007, in 2006 they won both championships - in 2007 they fell back into the midfield and only scored 1 podium.
well he joined the constructors champions.... they dropped to a distant 4th. only high light was he beat fisichela
Renault were literally back to back champions just before he joined, he could have potentially had a race winning car
So basically Fernando Alonso knew when teams were gonna suck before the next season
Now make a 10 drives that joined the team at the best time.
Where is Gorger Russel and Mercede 🤣
Ahat about Chris Amon, some very poor choises for him ass well (1969 Ferrari etc.)
Vettel Aston Martin
Could teams wrap a wire around the floor stays or would it be illegal ? Or machine a spiral effect into the part ? It’s the way big long chimneys don’t sway so much in strong wind ? 🤷🏻♂️ I’m thinking along the lines of cleaning up the airflow caused by the wire attached
I wish if daniel joined McLaren in 2019 rather than going from Renault to McLaren
This is more like Fernando Alonso's F1 career choices. All gone wrong.
George Russell not necessarily join at a wrong time. Joining the team when the team is in low tides avoided a civil war between the two drivers and made the generation transition smooth
ah the 1992 Ferrari, it was the most beautiful dog of a car that ever came out from Maranello. If performance matched its looks then it would defeat Williams easily that season
What a shame for Jean Alesi, he rejected Williams for Ferrari huge mistake I mean can't blame him it's a huge honor to drive for Scuderia but he sure might be a champion for Williams it really suits his driving skills.
Russel: 😡
@ScarAngusArobieke true, but still funny how the teams plummet when George joins :0
Don’t blame the car for the driver or the driver for the car.
Then you have Latifi at Williams, where you can safely blame both 🤪
Have you done the oppossite?
Like bottas leaving mercedes and joining alfa romeo, it ended up being better until now and i don't think mercedes will surpass the italians by a considerable margin this year
Maldonado to Lotus
2013 Lotus was at the top but when Maldonado joined them in 2014 they were backmarkers in a second
This one should be in the top 3, absolutely brutal decline
Leclerc : Am I a joke to you?
What about when Michael Schumacher bought out his brothers Jordan contract at the end of 1998 so that he could join Williams… only for Williams to then be behind a genuine title challenging
Jordan team in the 1999 season. I found that hilarious but it was certainly the wrong move at the wrong time. Most of Alonso’s post McLaren career has been to the wrong team at the wrong time including when he rejoined them.
Same thing when i picked my stock portfolio
Reutemann to Lotus is a scandalous omission from this list
I’d never looked at the Ricciardo thing that way before.
Jean Alesi to Benneton as well.
Alonso is a champion at this lol
"sebastian vettels reputation was at its height after winning the 2014 world championship" most people hated him, he didnt have a good reputation he had a terrible one his reputation is way better now. He was known for being arrogant, and people were tired of seeing him win (i have no clue how he turned that around)
Driving for Ferrari does that
Clearly can insert all Williams drivers starts from 1998 and after BMW Era.
What about Button in BAR/Honda? He pretty much wasted half of his career driving subpar machinery. Granted, it payed off in 2009, but I feel like his career could have been a lot better than it was.
The team was getting better when he joined though so it wouldn't really count
@@realwahooyahoo Was it really, though? 2004 and 2006 were only seasons where the team was good, rest were either mediocre or complete disaster. I still think that he would have done much better if he stayed in Renault or if he joined teams like McLaren.
@@whyareyoureadingmynickname8158 Were they any worse than their first seasons though?
@@realwahooyahoo Well, given that their first season was abysmal, no. But all of their seasons from 2000 to 2003 were pretty much the same - some potential but no delivery. 2007 and 2008, on other hand, were almost as bad as 1999.
On bright side, Button did manage to get out the most from the machinery and his patience was rewarded in 2009, at the point where almost everyone has written him off, so I guess it all turned out OK.
Senna moving to Williams in 94 was a literal career killer. They did fix the car eventually but by then it was already too late.
True and it was an Adrian Newey car stripped of its active suspension. No doubt a dark time for Newey. 🤦♂️
That’s one of those Newey would much rather not talk about.
Hence why Williams had the Senna sticker for so long on the cars.
Williams has always been a joke in terms of driver management. i'll never get the love and praise they got when Williams left F1 and when Frank died. it literally pissed me off. Frank was a massive joke.
@@jiboo6850 Maybe but they also won a few tittles.
How about Lotus reputation for killing drivers. Two Legends Jim Clark and Ronnie Peterson and that’s just two.
Ayo, why isn't fernando on the thumbnail 😤
Just a compilation of Fernando's driver choices
Senna to Williams in 1994
The best driver ever going to the reining champions and dying after trying to get the car lighter for a good enough performance
It is missing Vettel when he joined Ferrari and now AM.
Edd Straw?, this is the guy who gives those awful driver ratings right?
The one who touches himself to Lando Norris. I swear Lando can have a complete stinker and still get a 7.0
The real person that was at the right place at the wrong time: Alexander Rossi
DC should be here. He left Williams for Mclaren at the worst possible time.
Martin Brundle is a stretch, even in a good car he was not paticurly quick.