Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Discovery 3.12 - There Is A Tide...
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Die Hard on Discovery?! Seán is back with all the Ups & Downs from week's episode of Star Trek: Discovery, 'There Is A Tide...'.
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![ARGENTINA vs. CHILE [3-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 7](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/De3AWmXzhuA/mqdefault.jpg)
You don’t jump away the only spore drive vessel away from Federation. You disable it, so that it can be retaken.
Also, you don’t allow the only spore drive expert in the galaxy to be taken hostage. You evacuate him ASAP.
Evacuating Stamets accomplished both.
It was assault and kidnapping by a crew member who would have tried to do the exact same thing to save her family (she recently went rogue to save Book!). She is a hypocrite, and I can't imagine any crew member trusting her again (especially Stamets).
@@dmhendricks she didn't jeopardise Starfleet or the crew when she went to rescue book.
I'm going to disagree with your last down. Osyraa has control of the ship, and she wants the spore drive. Until she no longer has control of the ship, it's best if Stamets isn't on the ship. Discovery is useless to Osyraa without Stamets.
Except that how the heck can he get them back to save Saru and all...I totally got that too.
Oh, I understood why Stamets was livid. I’m just saying Burnham’s move made sense in context.
Yeah I came here to say this. Burnham's goal was to keep the spore drive out of the hands of the chain. This was a needs of the many moment, and she made the absolute right call, as hard and painful as it is.
Adira will regurgitate up anti-radiation pills for Culber and Saru to give Discovery enuf time to travel thru the same subspace tunnel Book and Burnham used at the beginning of this episode. Michael now knows this is possible but still very dangerous. Either way, as you mentioned, Osyraa will not have Stammy in her clutches.
@@Stress-Free-K if they take back the ship just beam Stamets back and jump.
You guys remember that Voyager episode where the Doctor wakes up 700 years in the future and at the end of the episode he goes off in search of Starfleet and the Federation? I keep getting the impression that he is going to show up in Discovery...
Can you imagine if he’s actually the president!!
@@CaroleWithAnE that is exactly what I was thinking...
@@johnspoljoric it may also explain all the hologram stuff too.
@@joermnyc I keep thinking not only that, but showing us the Voyager-J could be eluding to this too. And personally, I would love to see Robert Picardo join the cast for season 4.
That would be amazing
The scene with Burnham and Stamets did not deserve a down. It was very sad to see Stamets so distressed, but Burnham made the only logical choice -- something she was unable to do with Ariam. They could not just jump because the Chain had co-opted the entire computer system. That's why the sphere data transfers itself into the DOT-23s. The jump cannot be completed without the computer navigation interface. Remember from Season 1 Lorca had to imput the coordinates for the jump on his chair's console before initiating a black alert? We even got a close-up once.
Even if the Discovery was somehow able to make a rogue jump to the nebula, Osyraa had all transports on and off the ship shut down and they would not be able to save their people anyway. It was right to send Stamets into HQ so the Chain could not initiate a jump that would take them to the other side of the galaxy. With Stamets out of the picture, the Discovery would be limited to warp only. The logical sequence of tasks would be to prevent spore jumps, then secure the ship from Osyraa's regulators, then jump to the nebula to retrieve their people.
Actually, you know what, that is a bloody excellent breakdown of that!
Book and Burnham made it back from the nebula in about 5 minutes.
Honestly, you changed my mind. I was not happy with Michael with how she handled things. But you are right, this is her not repeating what happened with Ariam. I'm still hurt, cuz...heck...Stamets life is in the nebula...buuuut yeah I understand why is the logical option to take him out of the ship.
my thoughts exactly! well articulated!!
I agree. Actually, this shows how Burnham has grown over the season. Before this point, she would have focused on protecting her interest, with the needs of the Federation taking a back seat. That was the man gripe of Vance, that Burnham doesn't seem to do what's necessary for the "greater good". She didn't do it with Airiam and struggled to make the right calls.
One thing they could have added to the "It's made of our shit..." scene would be having Osyraa turn to Eli, who then nods confirming it's true.
Burnham in the Jeffries Tubes: “Come out to the 32nd century, we'll get together, have a few laughs...”
What I like about this episode is the fact that we see that either the baddies nor the goodies are unidimensionable.
Also, the fact that Stamets considers Adira as part of his family unit with Culber, very touching.
What, no mention of the cute spherobots at the end of the episode? They were a definite Up.
We're going to cover them for sure next week - I was a bit conflicted on them, not that I didn't like them, but they deserve a bit of fleshing out I think! One thing I did LOVE was the return of Annabelle Wallis's voice. Seriously, I need her to do audiobooks!
@@sean.ferrick Good to hear. With their colour-coded eyes they remind me of the three robots from Silent Running, so I've mentally nicknamed them Huey, Dewey and Louie.
I wondered too. I thought the spere ai should have shown up in the last show and was disappointed when they didn't. And the three spherobots at the end - they made you think of silent running - it made me think of the Three Stooges. (more likely with her enjoyment of old movies)
@@sean.ferrick We also got to see Zora at 3:13 into the episode.
It was the cutest thing I ever saw
Wish Gorgio had been around for this! Imagine the give and take between her and Osyraa! ;-)
Georgiou would have kicked her arse, way too easily.
I thought sending Stamets away made perfect sense. Their goal isn’t to get Discovery and the Veridian away from Starfleet HQ, it’s to retake Discovery and keep the Spore Drive. So Burnham sent away the one person who Osira could use to jump away with the ship. Stamets is in Starfleet HQ now, presumably ready to beam back to Discovery once the ship is theirs again.
I thought this week was the best Vance episode so far. He's a great addition to the cast. I love that they're doing a good job of finally showing characters as complicated things, just as in real life. The one down I have is that the season is nearly done. Easily the best Discovery season to date and it's going to be an impatient wait till the next one.
The moral dilemma in this episode reminded me of a moment in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. SPOILERS below for season 7 of Deep Space Nine for those who haven't seen it.
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When Kai Winn discovered that she had accidentally garnered favorable attention from the Pah-Wraiths (basically demons) instead of the Prophets, she was initially distraught and went to Major Kira for advice and absolution. She was receptive to Kira's advice UNTIL Kira told her that in order to avoid the temptations of power, she would have to step down as Kai. Similarly, Osyraa was only willing to go so far when it came to doing the right thing. If a peaceful and united future meant that she would have to stand trial for her crimes and probably lose her position as the leader of the Emerald Chain, she wasn't having it.
Gotta go with Miguel Martin-Garcia. After complaining earlier in the season that Burnham did not do her duty and was iffy on Starfleet protocol, she absolutely does her duty and makes sure that the single thing (person: Stamets) that can make Discovery go is beamed AWAY from the ship. Heck, I'm starting to wonder if this is how she gets her First Officer status back.
I don't understand your down for Burnham sending away Stamets. Sending the ship away while it was still the under control of Osyraa would have also turned over the technology of the jump drive to the most advanced scientific researchers in the known galaxy. Soon they would have many and Star Fleet would be at their mercy as the Exchange popped up anywhere they wanted to in the Federation.
So basically, it wasn't about getting the ship away from the station, but keeping the ship out of the Exchange's hands. Why is that logic so hard to understand.
Possibilities for the Federation President:
1) There is no president.
2) Sahill is currently or will be established as president.
3) "Eli" is an avatar controlled by the president so they can secretly be a part of all major negotiations.
I was really impressed by Vance quickly working-out that Osyraa's on the Discovery and then goes on the defensive. It was a great little step up from what normally happens, especially in "The Wrath of Khan", where they're conned right up until shit's exploding around them. Also, regarding different races from different areas of the galaxy interacting and trading, I got the impression they were already doing that right up until The Burn. It makes sense, considering how much further into the future this season is, especially with stuff like Quantum Slipstream, Transwarp Conduits and Wormholes. Also, there was a line in this episode about Deep Space 523, which implies Starfleet has a lot more bases now. Presumably, they're not all in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. There was a graphic in Starfleet HQ earlier in the season which showed various races and planets from every Quadrant.
I really liked Vance here, when he was trying to convince Osyra at the end of their discussion it's like the first moment he's shown some of that old school Federation idealism instead of the shades of grey morality he's been on about the whole season.
The acting and writing in this episode, this season, is great. You see where Vance and Osyra are coming from and why they see this union as necessary. The Federation has technology and "moral authority". The Chain has commerce and order. They each have bad parts but you could see how they could work together to overcome their deficits. I mean, it may not work but the galaxy would benefit from their joining. How the other powers see it, I'm not so sure.
Up until now he seemed awful iffy...this shows him to be almost a throwback to the old Federation in his values. Beautifully played.
@@Tilly850 The more you learn about the current state of the galaxy, the more you have to ask yourself why hasn't it collapsed FURTHER. I would have expected many more compromises give how many the future federation had to make to even be a shell of itself. That said, I appreciate the moral clarity Vance showed, saying that Osyra had to face what she's done. That was a ready room too far.
That’s basically the only stupid thing he ever did.
@@MultiRanman yes, it surprised me when he stated that to her actually. I thought that the moral clarity would be fuzzier in the "new Federation"...because of the collapse.
Quark: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon.
Admiral Vance: Hold my Apple.
You know you’re a Star Trek nerd when you go on a Star Trek Nemesis tangent to dump on the Remans.
*Respect level increased.*
Remans don't eat nearly enough shit apples as they should.
That was a fun episode. The interplay between Stamets and Aurelio was great. I loved how Stamets considers Adira as his family. Standout point of their convo. Stamets has turned into one of my favorite characters on the show. I'll disagree with the *down* about sending Stamets away because he is the key to the spore drive - without him, then there is no spore drive. She was working to safeguard the Federation, also she was unaware of the meeting between Vance and Osyraa.
I was also happy to see that Osyraa is more than the cartoon villain that she was shown to be. Nothing against Janet Kidder as an actor, it was how the character was written that felt a bit flat for me.
Die Hard in Space. Love it. Also reminded me of the 'Starship Mine' episode from TNG, where Picard saved the ship from Not-Tuvok and Patricia Tallman.
Awesome review! Not much nitpicking this week because it was an absolutely fantastic episode!
Jonathan Frakes directing the 800th Star Trek episode and knocking it out of the park was a great way to end 2020. Bloody brilliant! 🖖🏾
my god, 800 episodes!! Very proud of this wee franchise!! :) :)
I am so impressed with Oded Fehr's Vance- one of the best Admirals ever
Star Trek has had a history of bad or "follow orders" admirals. In this episode, you get a fuller sense of the struggles of Vance. Oded Fehr in limited scenes, makes the most of this.
we finally see an admiral being an admiral, Yes Ross was close, Forest too, and Paris was an emotional one, but we finally are able to see a believable admiral
He's great.
Dad-miral! ODed Fehr ! Been a huge fan since “ the mummy”
I'm starting to think of Vance as old school Starfleet captain forced into admiral's clothes by desparate times. I would have loved to see Oded Fehr as a captain, with or without alien makeup. 😍😍😍NOBODY KILL HIM OFF!! 😤😤😤
No, Discovery was under Chain control and they didn't have the spore drive without Stamets. Good for Michael for removing that tactical advantage.
I totally agree with you, It was cruel ,yet a valid Starfleet commander's decision. The enemy to lose the tactical advantage. ABSOLUTELY logical. A commander is there to call for the hard and difficult shots
@@Lexmanity Kidnapping and assault was a valid Starfleet decision?! When they get through this, how can Stamets and Burnham ever work together again? How can anyone work with Burnham again? You KNOW that she would have done the same to save her family - she recently went rogue to save Book! She is a massive hypocrite.
@@dmhendricks Kidnapping and assault? ... they are at the equivalent of war right now on Discovery. Stamets was willing to give the enemy the Federations greatest tactical advantage... if anything he should be thrown in the brig.
@@dmhendricks Its obnoxious the way that the character is written. That's a major truth. From the tactical point of view , she made a tough call, yet valid.
@@dmhendricks if it was only the life of the crew that was at stake, then yeah, Stammets is as essential as the drive itself. But the entire Federation was at risk--even if the absolute worst happened (all of discovery's crew dying including everyone on the dilithium planet), is that really worth the future of the Federation?
Hard call, but it was the right call.
Best thing in this entire episode, and the redeeming factor of the season, was Oded Fehr not being evil. The passion, desperation and hope that Vance displayed this episode was everything I wanted to see. It was amazing, and showed he was a good person, trying his best to be a good person in a terrible time. I expect as much from Fehr of course, as he is an amazing actor, but yeah. That was beautiful, clearly showed Vance is not evil, and made clear that the guiding principles of the Federation and Starfleet are alive and well. Battered, bloody, and tired, but still in the fight.
One of the few times I've actually been able to feel empathy for the villain's perspective. Typically they are so over the top "bad", that you not only hate them, but are rooting for their quick destruction. Here we have a true villain that is brilliant, can play head games and because of how they built her story line you want her to stick around. Great episode.
My favourite line: “it’s made of our shit your know?”😂😂
Seriously, how can you know like that guy?
When he said that he never had a real apple, you could see a hint of regret. Like, I’ve been doing all of this for the “Good of the people”, with no room for that which is basic and natural. That’s some good acting.
Osyrra losing her appetite after that was the next best thing.
@@AbrahamSamma oh yeah. That was nice touch 🤢🤢🤮🤮
*"It's pretty good for shit"*
Yeah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I LOVED IT TOO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
"Oooooh yeah, that's not coffee."
Hey, we survived twenty twenty. Just be nice to your liver.
Osyraa is going to regret killing Ryn, she showed her true colors to her scientist who is going to sabotage her now.
I have to disagree. Stamets is the key to the spore drive. Without Stamets, Osyraa is stuck in Federation HQ, and can’t jump out. Neither can she or her scientist make their own key. Stamets being removed from the equation limits Osyraa’s options.
Why they didn't '' spore drive'' directly in federation HQ ?
@@pop1348 remember Vance once said the information about Discovery can only get out of the room when he said so? Pop-up in the middle of the Fed without warning is like paint the target on their back
@@alria2133 discovery did spore jump before directly inside star fleet HQ...
@@pop1348 , it's a closed space with God knows how many ships in close proximity. Do you really wanna see Disco accidentally materialize inside the USS Nog?
@@generalmortars7557 they did a spore jump inside a planet... If they spore jump in the same spot as before... Why not ?
Janet Kidder struck me as a modern day, maybe goth, Wicked Witch of the West...at first...Elphaba with fringe... I now think she is a nearly complete 3D fleshed out character.....almost thought that he would end up being the mother of Kenneth Mitchell's scientist's 3 kids.....
I hope that they keep her around. You are absolutely right. For her to see that the Chain NEEDS to change, for the good of the galaxy, is a bit of multidimensional writing. Not only did this episode flesh out her character, it fleshes out the entire season and gives disco and the series a purpose different than any other ST show.
@@MultiRanman True, but Star Fleet wants her in jail for the crimes she's committed! She'd have to run the show like a mafia boss with her husband and kids doing her bidding outside! Star Fleet also has to figure out how to prosecute her while at the same time placating the worlds the Orian Syndicate have hurt. I say they offer up a "double" i.e. whipping boy or girl to sit in prison for her. That could easily be her husband and kids who are put out of harms way while she runs around sewing the seeds of peace!
I actually liked that they walked us through the logic of an Emerald Chain / Federation union. On paper, it makes a lot of sense and to have both parties acknowledge that is good writing. Let's be honest, the Federation has always relied on other organization / civilizations to do the "dirty work" of commerce while it benefited from that dirt. The Federation is like Amazon, It's very convenient and satisfies many of your needs, as long as you don't ask how it does it and who is crushes to get you that something.
I really enjoyed this episode.
That down number 2. The Viridian can't get into the federation HQ at the moment so that's not an issue.
However Burnham knows without stammets Osiris can't use discovery spore drive and loses an advantage
this episode had the perfect balance of action and diplomacy. I was genuinely surprised by the amount of diplomacy and lack of pew pew, in a very good way.
Great episode. Not interested in the Disco haters
I think that by now, hopefully, people are either in or they're out (obviously not including newcomers that is!). I personally love Disco, I love that we have new Star Trek and I'm going to be sad when it finishes up next week. And I think it's absolutely fine when people disagree with how some things pan out - sure that's why channels like this exist! Its when people hate for no reason other than....because?....that it's hard to engage with that
Not sure why so much hate for Discovery. I've seen every Star Trek series and movie, grew up when TNG was first coming out, and I really like Discovery. It's no more quirky with cannon than TOS or Enterprise was, and I particularly like the long form narrative more than episodic stories.
Apparently not interested in sensible narative structures either.
Perhaps more interested in chairs being used instead of forcefields for prisons?
@@Diggnuts Case in point
@@Antonioplus If it was, you would not comment back, now would your my logic and taste impaired friend?
I think with Osyraa being in control of the ship, Michael wanted to make sure Paul was safe(er). Which would mean Osyraa couldn't use the Spore Drive.
Plus, is was a heartbreaking scene.
Anthony Rapp killed it with that scene. I teared up when he was pleading with her. I know Michael had to do it but still...tear my heart out.
There was no mention of the sphere data now in the repair robots at the end of the episode joining the discovery crew which was nice
Bit of an Easter Egg when the FedHQ goes to red alert 🚨- the klaxon is exactly the same as the long klaxon on Voyager! Specifically when Janeway tours the ship en route to engineering armed with a security team after the Equinox crew escapes, in Equinox Pt2. Anyone else notIced that? @seanferrick 🖖🏼
oh very well spotted! I did not catch that!!! And to think I would normally say that I love Voyager's red alert!! :) I sense another re-watch about to occur!!!
Made sense to get rid of Stammets; without him, the Spore Drive is basically disabled and thus harder for the Emerald Chain to steal/reverse engineer.
The ship is still under enemy control so jumping makes no sense and could actually help the enemy gain access to the spore drive, so moving the one guy who can use it is a good idea.
How 'bout the Die Hard reference of Burnham losing her shoes? That cracked me up!
Definitely loved that homage...but the continuity crew screwed the pooch when Burnham pops out of a Jeffries Tube into the Spore Drive room to save Stamets WEARING SHOES but is then shown putting on a pair while taking to Stamets after stunning Aurelio.
@@generalilbis
Ahhh, continuity errors and Star Trek... go together like strawberries and cream.
LOVE the idea of all starships being fitted with the Spore Drive- you’re right it could go full circle!!
I think it would be cool as a way of also showing what we've had in the history of the franchise. Now I may not love the Kazon, but I'd love to see a post-Phage Vidiian society!
Didn't they agree at the end of last season that the spore drive wasn't a feasible method due to the way it corrupted the mycelial network or something like that? Of course that was because it wouldn't fit into all the canon...so maybe now in the future they can solve that problem?
@@sean.ferrick oh wow I was knee high to a grasshopper when I was glued to Voyager- I raised myself on it lol! Then I discovered TNG et al and that broadened my pallet aha! A post-Phage Vidian society sounds interesting... I’ll tell you what sounds GREAT though- a post-COVID planet Earth haha!!
@@sean.ferrick yeah Justin that’s right! Was our lovely Dr Hugh corrupting it when he turned into that monstrous looking thing! Quite interesting though @seanferrick as Emerald Chain scientist Aurellio implied to Commander Stamets that although the extinct tardigrade DNA corrupts through replication, they actually have the technology to GROW the tards DNA/RNA whatever ;)
The Kazons? Seriously? Even the Borg didn't deem them worthy.
I know, right? When a species is so useless that the Borg can't be bothered with assimilating them, you know they should be left in the dust.
It's been centuries since we've seen them though
@@dhawerd Not long enough
Great video as always guys.
I have been wondering if the Eli hologram is somehow a cloak for the Federation President. Especially given what they showed with the away team last week.
Very possible. I think there are a LOT of holograms going on here!
No crying in this episode. Wasn't it good? I liked it. There was shooting, fighting, stabbing and robots helping the good guys. Great stuff.
Every star fleet ship should have an isolated security system that is activated when the ship is taken over. It should use facial recognition or bio scans to identify the crew and beam the bad guys into space minus their heads.
But what if you wanted to question the bad guys ? What you want is a holding cell with no doors. Food can be beamed in. Put the baddies in there once recognized by the security system.
@@dragonrune6800 we only need one ☝🏼 😏🖖🏼
@@tlouiseallen9302 Maybe. You may want more than one for ... backup purposes. 😉
@@dragonrune6800 just beam the bottom half into space 😀
@@exkingjohn 🤔🤔🤔
Might just be my favourite epis of the season yet.
I'm thinking her taking the "apple" slice out of her mouth was foreshadowing when she is told she would need to be tried for her past thus the Federation leaving a sour taste in her mouth.
Could be both.
Lol.
It was the logical, necessary choice, to put Stamets away from the Emerald Chain'sreach. If Osyraa or her people had managed to keep control of the ship and Stamets, she'd have the monopoly of spor drives. Even if she didn´t manage to mass product it, she's still use it to tow the Veridian instantly to wherever the EC needed firepower, with catastrofic results for the galaxy at large.
Well... Got the Sphere data thing right, as for the great it's all a build-up for that finale! Adira will be prominent but I fear who will be left at the end! Also, did you see the eyes on that panel on the bridge, THAT is a direct tie into the Repair bots having the e Sphere data!
No exaguration this is the best and only real good episod of Discovery. I will die on this hill!
Vance was obviously saying that the President doesn't want to deal with her *for security reasons.*
It would have been mighty dumb to put her in a room with the highest authority in Starfleet.
My guess is that Eli is (or perhaps all holograms are) President. That would be an interesting way to look back on the negotiation scene, Eli basically giving permission with nods rather than advising. Do we actually know he's even a hologram anyway? I don't recall any effects, we were just told. He could be human with sharp instincts, posing as a holo in every meeting, to keep the negotiations relatively honest.
Die Hard: 100% a Christmas movie
Yass 🙌🏼💪🏼🙏🏼🖖🏼
Why couldn't the Federation negotiate different terms for a peace or alliance with the Emerald Chain? It’s not like the Federation hasn’t allied with morally ambiguous civilizations before. They made peace with the Klingons and established an alliance even though the Klingons were still conquering and enslaving people. They allied with the Romulans during the Dominion War even though the Romulans tried to invade Vulcan.
It makes no sense to have Vance handle all the negotiations instead of having a team of ambassadors and professional negotiators hammer out better terms and compromises since an alliance or even a peace treaty can literally help billions if not trillions of lives.
good point.
Made me wonder: Just where is the president of the Federation? Is there a president of the Federation?
Depending on his rank as an admiral, he may have the presidents ear 👂. And as sparse as their resources are against the chain, gotta vet all claims before taking it to the top. That’s why Vance is a Dad-miral and not a diplomat.
Admiral Vance reminds me of an Irish or Scottish Grandpa. They really cast him well!
Would have been nice if he played his actual ancestry.... Great actor.... Should be able to represent his own background
@@DrTIPUSUK what is his ancestry?
@@leerodriguez3132 Mideast
This week was much better than last week's flop.
Sean Farrick did a good job this week.
You get an up... however, your last down was unwarranted. Until the Emerald Chain is off the ship, keep Stamets as far away from Discovery as possible
Sending Stamets away does make sense. Burnham doesn't know about the peace talks. She's still under the impression that Emerald Chain + Spore Drive = end of Federation. And tbh I expect the story will actually go that way. However, removing Stamets from the equation removes the Emerald Chain's ability to retreat. Let's face it, the Chain didn't need to invade Federation HQ space to open talks. Let's hope the writing reflects the intricacies of the plot in a sufficient manner.
I always had the idea that Stamets and the bridge worked together to initiate a spore jump. That he can't just do it on his own. Like a car can't go anywhere without the ignition key and the key is useless without the car. So Discovery's not going anywhere, even with Stamets, if the bridge is in enemy hands.
This was a fracking awesome episode.
You should have had an up for the sphere data in the dot 23s.
All your ups I agreed with.
Your down about stamets I disagree with. If the crew failed the chain would still have the spore drive.
I'm hopping for the finaly an allied Fleet shows up. Earth Trill and nivar coming to the rescue of the federation.
Someone will come from burnhams distress call.
"Oh yeah, that's not coffee."
Is it LDS?
🤣🤣🤣🖖🏼
Admiral Vance is kicking ass! Love that we dont have to worry about the Federation being evil [knocks on wood]. Osira is compelling and agree about the nuance. Her pride getting in the way of the negotiations is perfect writing. Tilly's mini speech to rally them was awesome. Ryn dying was nuts and not expected. Loved the sphere data taking over the mini bots, ready to see how kick ass they can be.
The doctor is totally going to be revealed as the President.
Saru might leave to take care of the child...leading to Burnham as Captain?
What happened to Nielsen??
Michael's choice made COMPLETE sense -- Osyrra on the Feds doorstep is bad enough, but if they had control of the spore drive? One of those is more devastating than the other. The feds have a whole mini fleet right there. I doubt Osyrra's ship could handle all of them at once.
But a defeated Osyrra deciding the spore drive is a decent consolation prize? Oh HELL no.
She made the right call.
PS Can we talk about how Tilly is a go with the flow leader who lets her people do the thinking for her? She wasn't offended that they were get up and go, but at the same time, they didn't disrespect her either!
I'm sure the Talaxians would _love_ more "interactions" with the Klingons 😁
Concerning the first up, did anyone else think Book & Burnham crash-landing in Discovery's shuttlebay was an homage to how Kirk & Co. got back aboard the Enterprise-A in Star Trek V?
No mention of the obvious set up of Burnam’s mom showing up in the final episode, possibly with the Vulcans and/or Romulans? I get the feeling that Nhan will also show up again as well. Maybe the Trill as well. Possibly the Earth Defense folks as well? Probably none of them (other than Burnam’s mom because that was directly set up though). I also noticed Sean didn’t acknowledge how they explained away why there is no spore drive ships in the TNG/DS9/Voyager/Picard era. Also, interesting side note here, I don’t recall us seeing any Klingons this season - which is interesting given how often they showed up in seasons 1 and 2
why did you not talk about sphere data transfers itself into the DOT-23s.
oh and did anyone miss the sphere data looking into bridge at the start when they were taking over the computer
@@TyrSmith1986 saw her.
I think Vance line should have gotten an up in itself ! the way he play it, like yeah for someone who is not used to it it's disgusting but it's also science and it's amazing to be able to go so far in the reclying cycle, it's cool and there's nothing to be disgusted about it.
Also I understand why stamets was send away, he is the key to discovery, the spore drive doesn't function without him. it's really showing how desperate burnham think the situation is. Also I completly understand stamets point, and his distress.
Also what was the point of Ryn, I'm so disapointed he was killed. I hoped more of him :/
I don't get how anyone could not see Die Hard as a Christmas film. It's set on Christmas Eve. How can it not be a Christmas film? It absolutely is!
No comment on the final scene? Interesting, considering its one of the things we've all been waiting for...
Removing Stammets from the situation is an up for me, he's the most valuable member of the crew and essential for spore jumping.
Leaving him aboard a ship presently controlled by the Emerald Chain would have been unbelievably dumb.
"Why wouldn't Gray be a Trill?"
.....because he is/was one?
I liked the Episode, The Chain/Federation Proposal was interesting, Tilly showing that she might me much more ready to be a leader/Captain than she believed to be, Zora showing up and joining etc.
I think the scene Gray is in is with the young Kelpien (forgot his name). Not sure if the room is making Gray visible to everyone, thereby making him a Vulcan.
If Gray is _not_ being seen, I am not sure why his species was changed.
@@dragonrune6800 🤔🧐🖖🏼
Deffo a great ep and yer, diehard is a Christmas movie, I totally rewatched all four die hard movies over the Christmas period.
All 4 Die Hard movies.
And 4 only.
There are DEFINITELY not 5.
Yes Die Hard is a Christmas movie! As my friend says, "It's not Christmas until I see Hanz Groober falling out a window!"
Down: Burnham calling her mom - agreed. Where's that coming from?
I agree. The distress call itself makes sense. But the personal message to her mother felt a bit forced. It would have been better to hold off revealing exactly who she sent it to in my opinion. And then give them a scene once it's all over.
So this I definitely think is setting up next week, I think we're going to see a mini-fleet of Ni'Var, Earth and potentially Trill as well!
This will be the catalyst in getting Ni'Var to rescue the Federation and perhaps get them to jump to the Verubin Nebula so the Romulans & Vulcans can see the source of the Burn.
As the title suggests, "That Hope is You", which means Michael's connection with Ni'Var and the USS Discovery helping Earth & the Titans negotiate, giving the Trill hope, saving the Kili & Kweijan and helping out the Coridanites on The Colony will pay off.
The Renaissance of the Federation will begin. 🖖🏾
She told her mom that they were in a life/death situation and that she loved her. Soldiers do that all the time before they go into battle. The people on Flight 93 on 9/11 knew the plane was going down and sent their loved ones I love you text messages. Burnham had just been reunited with her mother and it was a very realistic and touching thing to do. It was also a tribute to Die Hard (John McIane's message to his wife). LOL
It’s a cheap set up for them to save the day next week. Guaranteed. This show only gives charter depth and relationships the second before they need it. The robot girl from season 2, the depth to the Orion’s, Tilly being worthy of captaincy, etc.
And good on Soniqua for selling that knife wound in the leg not just in her walking and selling of the wound, but then seeing the blood still seeping though the bandage making for a real nasty visual image.
Am I the only one who is worried about the micilial universe responding to possible fleets of ships flying through their space?
Why not make cleaning ships with boosted recyclers and start teleporting/recycling the debree in those slipstream pathways?
You are not alone. Iam worried about that too. But Iam also concerned about how it will be handled. Hopefully not just with one sentence. Maybe Stamets and Culber have to negociate somehow with the micilial universe or/and Culber has to sacrifice himself because he originated from there , and there could be some treaty that makes him stay there as an ambassador, who knows... For the second point: the perfect job for the Malon!
It's been lovely to have your episode reviews and theories.
Osyra: Doesn't quite seem like a real episode.
Admiral: I've never watched a real episode.
Osyra: Well how sad
Admiral: It's made up with our own shit you know. That's the base material we use in our writing rooms. We deconstruct Star Trek to the atomic level and reform the cannon. It's pretty good for Shit.
Yet there is a mother fucking rainforest ship that can surely grow fruit and vegetables... even voyager had a hydroponics bay.
They have seeds of every mother trucking plant that they went to.
Arrrrrhgggghhhhhhhhh.
What about the Discovery's Roid2D2 droids offering to help? I love those guys!
With that hologram theory, i've speculated that Robert Picardo, might return as the backup docter who was separated from voyager. Assuming that he traveled to the alpha quadrant and survived, this is around the time he would make it to starfleet
I liked the fact that the admiral and the Starfleet have not turned evil as so many expected. Vance is also accomplished diplomat it seems.
As for Burnham's jettisoning Stamets- it was the best move she could make knowing the Discovery is under Osyraa's control and not knowing the situation with the rest of the crew and whether she/they will be able to re-take the ship. Apart from what really the Burn is ( I'm not at all convinced that a child's anguish and fear could have caused it), where IS the Federation ( we haven't seen any Federation officials so far, or at least we don't now if we had already seen them) and why the sphere data reacted so late in the action are the mysteries that need to be resolved. I hope the last episode of the season won't disappoint us and will answer them. Happiest New Year to you, too!
Sean, you're so smart and so good at this. I really enjoy watching you and being exposed to your point of view and review.
Well to me the last scene made sense to me. How are they going to jump away with Osyrra still in control of the ship? Stamets is the key to Osyrra being able to run away, so they need to cut that possibility off.
Enjoyed the homage to Die Hard in this episode.
I'm sorry but Vance demanding that Osrya stand trial is a down for me. She offered peace. There could have been some sort of deal to make.
Can still be - If she lets it. She could "stand" trial, found guilty, and with a note that she brought the merger and standing trial, give her like life-time community service. She will not have power, but she will be alive. Best I think she could get out of this.
My bet is next ep, she dies.
@Zack Snyder I am not sure about that. The Chain is much larger than Starfleet at this point in time. What benefit(s) are there for the Chain to take over Starfleet HQ? Starfleet isn't the Federation.
@@dragonrune6800. Starfleet could have offered her a chance to just "disappear". But by demanding she stands trial, they shut the door on negotiations. I think she somehow survives until the next season
@@davidporter9553 Maybe. If the writers want to continue Season 3 into Season 4. Or they may close out Season 3, starting a new arc for Season 4. *shrug* We'll have to see next week.
Of course it's well-paced our guy Chad edited this week's episode :)
Yes to die hard absolutely being a Christmas movie.
Die Hard absolutely is a Christmas movie, no debate, period, end stop!
Living for these up and down reports every week and will miss after S3 is over. Thank you Sean. Loving your work!!!!
Frakes improved this ep. Other than an excess of Dutch angles
I keep forgetting that Bernam was brought up on Vulcan.
The neck pinch is such a surprise.
Why didn't Bernam use the neck pinch on the soldier she was fighting?
The logic for throwing sgammets out of the ship is that he is the "key" for the Chain to develop a Spore drive of their own. That is far more dangerous than them being at federation headquarters.
I agreed with everything you said right up until your last down, but that’s ok. Others have already explained the reasoning why it made sense for Burnham to get Stamets safely off the ship and away from Ossyra. Looking forward to seeing what they do with the three robots next week and then what you think of them 🤣
The good news about Kenneth Mitchell and getting shot, thank goodness that he is only stunned, so I think that it is safe to say that Arillio will be back.
Nothing about how Michael forgot that she had a phaser when she got stabbed in the leg or about the programmable matter she could have used to fix that leg stab? The problem with making the tech unexplainable magic is that the viewer doesn't understand why the magic tech can't fix every problem.
Great episode ... connecting the plots .. and the Dots, before the closing this season. 😉
I'm totally enjoying the video, but dude, that is an awesome sweater!
Where is the regenerative armour and Transphasic torpedoes that janeway brought back? I'm sure Starfleet kept improving on the technology, so where is it?
The regenerative armour could be the predecessor to programmable matter, so technically less advanced than what Discovery and other Starfleet ships have. As for the transphasic torpedoes, who says that's not the kind on-board Discovery or other Starfleet ships? Or maybe using them so close to Starfleet HQ is a Very Bad Idea?
I noticed something. Vance had Discovery upgraded & its crew updated to use the new tech. Where were the transporter countermeasures? Vance ordered the spore drive's existence top secret (let alone its specs), restricted to a handful of Starfleet captains. How did Emerald Chain identify the exact person and room they'd need to seize to control the spore drive? I think they have a spy in Starfleet which is reasonable to believe given Assyra's penchant for extortion. That would mean Eli the Lie Detector could have been hacked. The negotiation could then be a ruse to buy time for some other tactic to play out. Like, she could be stalling while an Emerald Chain fleet flies by warp to reinforce her.
Seeing this episode makes me think there was a fantastic season in this footage of some scenes and episodes were drastically moved around
How did you not mention the sphere data in those cute bots in the last scene?!?!?!?