i can't even look at Vi or i'll cry ☹what did you think of S2? (ps I share my positivity for S2 at the end. i still love Arcane. and i am totally down for kind-hearted disagreement!)
It was definitely a downgrade to season 1. It has its good moments and I applaud everyone who enjoys it and doesn't criticize it whatsoever. I envy them, actually. It was beyond a disappointment for me personally and my perception of arcane as a whole has been changed entirely- from what the writers have been saying post S2, to the assassination of characters and arcs/plotlines and the absolute horrid shift in the fandom. Season 2 has its good moments absolutely, but for me personally the negatives are way too glaring for me to look past. It's very unfortunate because I absolutely loved this show and the characters. I don't think I'll ever be this affected by something fictional on this level again.
@@lemonwater2857 Actually, same. Even before season 2 was out, I was worried as heck that the character driven story would suffer because of how monumental Arcane had gotten meaning that they were very likely planning to go even bigger, potentially turning the whole thing into more of a spectacle similar to Avengers Endgame. So, when I finally watched it, it felt like I subconsciously suppressed my disappointment to the point that it wasn't registering to me why I was so unaffected by major moments. Vi's stint with the enforcers and her team meant nothing to me, her fight with Jinx meant nothing to me, Caitlyn taking over, Mel's faux brother, the Zaunite near rebellion, and worst of all, that whole "war" at the end meant nothing to me. I'm pretty sure now that the reason why I was so unaffected is because it feels as though this season's writers put such little time on the characters and just wanted to get the plot moving forward and ending it, almost like they had other projects to prepare for.
@boxingelfis1499 exactly. So many people are obsessed with this "show don't tell" thing that it appears they are forgetting what makes writing amazing in the first place. We barely got to see characters and their interactions, their actions and process to their motivations. We saw it all on a surface level, but it was never explored. The personal dialogues between characters, them having moments for themselves kind of just... disappeared? Everyone wasn't really in the moment, they were all basically reacting to something as the plot went on. Season 2 is missing a lot of the things that made us care about the characters and their actions in the first place. But at least we have those video montages, right? Again, not terrible and it's a lot more complicated than this but THIS is a big reason on why I was disappointed.
@@lemonwater2857 Indeed, there were some really awesome moments and my goodness does the soundtrack slap, but for the most part the heart of the show or the humanity feels missing for the most part.
This is actually a common misconception, first it kind of ignores the way Jinx was for the entire 8th episode (I’m not disagreeing it was rushed by the way). Anyways, why do you think she went back to her “I’m a Jinx” mindset after the development she went through in episode 6. “And the break the cycle of killing” well WHO was recently killed? That Jinx believes was her fault? And not only that, in episode 9 when Jinx comes in on her airship, you can see patterns that resemble Isha’s bunny ears (at the ballon part), Isha’s hat (like right above where Jinx was standing I think). And I think you can see a doll of Isha that Jinx has with her. And if you can see it there, it’s with her in the art book, and official merchandise of that outfit. If you’re looking for a verbal mention, Jinx mentioned Isha in league “Isha would’ve loved this place” when Jinx was staying at the firelight hideout. So I hope this make you feel better, that Isha WAS NOT completely forgotten.
@@rainydaze2889that's the ONLY reference we have. Plus, telling a suicidal person they're better off dead is tone deaf. Isha didn't even NEED to die, she was a plot device for us to feel bad for Jinx.
@@rainydaze2889 Yup, thanks. I already noticed these, i get your point. I just thought they messed up the pacing this season in general, they did it better in season one. S2 is still great but i wished we could see the full version and potential of it, without too many scenes getting cut yk. Have a nice day!
@misashanoo4322 Both Isha and Warwick are such painfully obvious plot devices it comes across as just amateur writing, especially compared to the incredibly nuanced writing of season 1
She was mentioned in a mini game in the league client called "Jinx fixes everything". It takes place at the Firelight's tree where Jinx fixes stuff to prepare for battle. She mentions that Isha would have loved this place and that she misses her. She says it in an almost sad and happy way...? Anyways, I think that is stupid because I know Riot sooooo badly want people to play the game but legit maybe 50% of the people that watched already plays or will start play the game AT MOST. + the event is over and mini game is gone now
Not so Fun fact- the writers litteraly said they lost interest in Vi this season. Which breaks my heart. She was such a good character in season one, and that pretty much explains why her character was thrown away.
I'm not a writer but I don't understand how you can just lose interest in one of your main characters... the more logical explanation I have is that Vi was mainly written by one of the writers who left the team after season 1.
Not only in Vi, but mel too. Amanda hates mel and that's make me sad, Mel and Vi are like orange, When you squeeze them, a lot of juice comes out. That's how I see Mel and Vi, there were so many things they could have done with these characters and they totally wasted them.
28:57 Them saying, "Season 2 is going to be more Vi focused," Then pulling this crap and then saying, "We thought there were more interesting characters to focus on" Is actually criminal, try and change my mind
i was so sad because vi is my favorite character, and she is literally the main character. you can't just change the entire dynamic of a series because you're bored. come up with new ideas for vi instead of sidelining her. show more of vi and caitlyn, more of vi and jinx, more of the three of them.
That just pisses me off so bad cause if she’s ‘boring’ then idk write her not to be?? Like they have writers who could’ve easily not made her to be like that.
@@jembellOne of the central mysteries of Arcane, from it's inception, was how a kid who hated Enforcers and lost her parents to them, believably agreed to join them and fight against her own home. What an unbelievably interesting question and conflict to create, and then never actually tackle. We are, bafflingly, locked comepletely out of Vi's head as she hunts down her sister (to _kill_ her) and uses chemical warfare on the streets of the undercity, despite *being a victim of police brutality herself,* and being locked in prison for 7 years.
@@mackingcheese Absolutely, I feel they also didn't have much of cait and vi after act 1 which is why her decisions related to cait just don't make much sense, and is why I consider the jaill scene necessary. Because there aren't any other scene where they forgive each other, and kind of explains it.
For me, one of the biggest flaws of s2 is that they forgot both cities were also supposed to be characters in a sense. In s1, every action the characters made, it would impact others (and the cities), but in s2, so many actions seemed to not have this effect or be brushed off. The enforcer squad literally commiting war crimes when they GASSED THE UNDERCITY and this never being adressed again is the biggest example 😭
@Sofiaee the undercity already has poor air quality bcuz of the many factories, Cait's family made a ventilation system to try making the air there better quality (it works for a certain degree) Doesn't deter the fact that Cait's squad deliberately used it on their little mission, probably affecting common people as well. And even if it didn't affect commoners, using that is still a horrible abuse of power, even for the standards of what we've seen so far from Enforcers
Yes I feel like the core plot was the sisters and the cities and that’s what made the supporting characters and plots work so well! I think Jayce and Viktor’s plot still could have worked w this even if they did more w the zaun Jesus commune and piltover’s reaction.
The point of that is to emphasize class war. Cait is constantly saying to Jinx "the crimes you commited can't go unpunished", while the enforcers and Piltover in general are getting away with doing fucked up shit. Even look at Jacye and how he committed a crime to create hex core but became a council member because he was backed by Kiramman wealth. But jynx doing the same thing is constantly punished for creating things with the hex core. It's purposeful that they "don't" say it because they don't have to. That is what happens in class war. The more money you have, the more you get away with.
I don’t think the Mel mage arc should have been in season 2. It seems like they are going to have a spinoff with the rose whatever it’s called, So I think they should have just left it for that. It felt really strange to me that she had this whole other story happening that didn’t fit in to everyone else’s. Also I love the rant about Vi’s outfit. That’s so relatable I always get so mad when they mess with a good outfit.
I absolutely loved Mel in s1, one of my favourite characters. In a show with tech savy smart people she's people smart, understanding how people tick with misses because she's still young and a human at that point, interesting family dynamics, intriguing past and philosophy. THEN THEY GIVE HER 2 MINUTES OF MAGIC TIME after which she overtakes her mothers place and that’s it???????
@@chaipanzu LMAO I LOVE HOW PEOPLE FORGOT THAT NOXUS IS A TRADING PARTNER TO PITLVOER AND WOULD NOT ALLOW AMBESSA, A ROGUE GENERAL, TO MESS THINGS UP WITH THEIR TRADING PARTNER LMAOOOOOOOOOO
Personally, I think they also failed Caitlyn. I've seen a lot of Cait hate on tiktok, and I think it's justified. As someone who has lost their mother at 16, her rage wasn't explored enough, which makes her unrelatable. Jinx trauma is explored really well in season 1, which makes the viewer understand her actions. Cait's ignorance towards Vi's feelings about Jinx after she killed her mother came of as a bad personality trait and as her not having empathy. If they took the time to explore what was going on in Cait's mind, what it meant to lose the person she has spent her entire life with and how the grief created an intense tunnel vision of rage, more people would've understood her and her actions, even her mistakes. They were able to make us understand Jinx killing her father figure, but couldn't make us relate to Caitlyns rage?
i think this is a really poignant point! obviously s2 very intensely parallels how caitlyn is becoming jinx in a way as her obsession makes her do terrible things, but her most memorable moments for me this season is gassing people, being a full on fascist dictator, and a somewhat unsatisfying end to ambessa (caitlyn doesnt even kill her even though her entire arc this season is influenced by ambessa!) jinx does some awful shit in season 1, but i remember they gave her solo scenes to really dig into her mindset, motivations, and a clear picture of how mentally unwell she is. in this season, caitlyn gets nothing of the sort! theres always another person with her who's influencing her decisions in some way, and it really doesn't leave a lot of space for the viewer to show sympathy for caitlyn like they did for jinx. so instead of getting to see both her incredibly violent and incredibly soft moments, all we see is caitlyn growling about how she thinks zaunites are animals, how she completely disregards vi's feelings about becoming the institution that killed her parents, and how inconsistent she is about vi! there should be SOME level of reconciliation for caitlyn and vi, but after they tussle for five seconds at the commune its like their conflict never even happened! caitlyn instantly trusts vi's plan when she says "youre not going to like this" after their last interaction she tells vi that her monstrous sister's blood is in her veins. theres no build up or sympathy with caitlyn, so looking back at season 1 theyre just irreconcilably different to me. its like looking at two different people, with nothing to bridge the gap between them.
I can feel for you, makes me hate Season 2 even more because so many there are themes and ideas they never properly explored. Cate, Vi and Jinx could have been such a complex trio, having so much behind them. Yet this Season they feel simply like writers' toys that are bent the way writers want them to in order to get everything to MCU finale. I wish we could've had a deeper dive into Cate mind and everything that comes with it. Season 1 had amazing writing in regards of psychology of characters. Season 2 sadly is a major disappointment in this regard
She goes from oh no nobody takes me seriously to having a military coronation, to giving all her to Ambessa in the next, to betraying in the next one The character was a joke lol
I feel the same way about Cait. I feel like in season 1 she and Jayce were stand ins for the more privileged members of the audience. As much as we’d like to be more like Jinx or Vi, we haven’t faced the level of oppression they do. At best we are well-meaning and naive but , like Jayce and Cait, still willing to acknowledge our privilege and unpack our biases to work towards collective liberation. Maybe some of us are closer to season 1 Viktor, coming from an oppressed background and being thrust into more privileged society. Point is, I loved how season 1 unambiguously supported Zaun being free from Piltover’s oppression without making the topsider characters into mustache twirling villains or apathetic to Zaun’s struggles. Now it feels like Cait has become a full on “Piltie goon” without exploring her twisted mindset the way they did for Jinx. I also understand that people sympathize with Jinx more because she’s a victim of oppression while Cait is definetly a perpetrator of it. Even though Jinx and Silco’s political intentions were never exactly pure, it’s much more easy to root for an underdog type of character
Arcane season 2 answers the age old conflict of "show vs tell" by choosing a third option, "imagine". The audience has to look at all the music videos and imagine a coherent story.
Lmaooo not "imagine". But you're not wrong, it felt like I had to fill in the blanks on so many things. I like imagining and coming up with little headcannons to explain things sometimes but damn can yall please just show me lol.
This actually describes my experience with the show perfectly, even with the later episodes in S1 already. Did you make this phrasing up? Can I quote you on this? :)
This actually perfectly expresses how art and media have been separated. You are use to media spoon feeding everything, while not having been taught how to read or understand art. Arcane is art. Your supposed to listen to the music, see the colours, backgrounds, characters and theme then read the meaning from that.
Can't lie. You put into words very much how I feel sbout this season involving the sisters plot. But I also had problems with Viktor and Jayce's plot too, it feels like the show was trying to tell two wildly different stories at once without committing to either. And the ending attempt to merge both just comes off as haphazardly put together for me. But also, a bit of a more petty nitpick, the amount of scenes turned into basically glorified music videos really got on my nerves. Its like every ten or so minutes each episode theres ANOTHER and ANOTHER.
I was initially fine with the music videos if they meant the time saved by them was going to be used in telling the rest of the story, but then we still got a neckbreaking pace, a lot of wasted time and a rushed ending. And now after rewatching the season, the videos feel even more annoying and even cringy, just awful, unnecessary stuff
i agree, the mvs got on my nerves. they were visually interesting but at the same time hard to follow-- they're an insufficient replacement for storytelling
To add to this, they also kinda just forgot that Jinx has some form of psychosis (probably schizophrenia), randomly remembered it halfway through in one scene, and then never addressed it again. As someone with that disorder, I was looking forward to seeing more of that aspect of her and it doesn't just magically disappear and reappear like that, at least not from what I know.
It's not about the writers forgetting or remembering she has psychosis. I think Jinx has hallucinations when her trauma is triggered or she is having a mental breakdown. I am not an expert so I don't know but that's just my observation in general about her character.
@RsaRsa-d7bExcept even when her trauma is triggered, she doesn't hallucinate to nearly the extent of season 1. Also, in Season 1, she said voices were "Always with her" and she's shown to hallucinate during normal/mundane conversation.
Some people said/ commented somewhere that she still had psychosis but it was simply not shown as vividly (or not at all) compared to season 1. Kinda works with the whole thing of the viewers having to fill in blanks and imagine stuff happening instead of them showing us in the show. The way Jinx' psychosis was depicted in S1 was one of my very favorite things of the show, so them having discarded that was a major bummer to me.
What really pisses me off is Vi's and Cait's relationship. I was so happy to see lesbian rep, but I didn't expect one of them to be incredible apathetic, selfish and unfair towards their partner. How Cait treated Vi really makes me hate her. Especially because I really loved them in season one. I get grief can make you do crazy things, but that certainly doesn't mean you can't even apologize for hitting her with your gun and leaving her just because she didn't want you to KILL A CHILD. I could NOT feel happy for them by the end. Also, the opressor x opressed thing really makes me uncomf. Cait has way too much power over Vi.
one of my favourite scenes of vi is her "too risky" parkour scene in season one, leaving caitlyn behind and its just a minute of her running and you realise its her coming to herself and remembering old paths she used to take and breathing in the feeling of being home. It showed us that vi was free and independent for the first time and happy about it. So i cant tell you how much it pains me that they portrayed vi as someone who is overly dependent on cait so much so she'll return to a prison-like cycle where she engages in pitfighting and wont stop until someone (in this case, jinx who drags her out) saves her. She ends up in piltover with caitlyn at the end of the season but during that time we havent seen vi grow or learn self-worth and even further independency, the will to live life for herself, to choose herself (which supposedly is the arc by choosing cait but what is to stop her from returning to that pit if they break up?).
@@nuxjoe You seem to only grasp her character design on a superficial level. Vi's core character motivator is that she NEEDS to protect those she loves. It's her only driving force in life. When she lost Powder in the S1 finale, she still had Cait. Then when she lost Cait and Jinx had escaped, Vi truly had nothing left. That's what the whole "Molotov Cocktail" song is about. She hit rock bottom and had nothing left to live for. I do understand why you might misinterpret as S2 really was rushed, but most of the information is retained, just compressed and requires comprehension. That's what the S2 finale is about. Ekko breaks Jinx's cycle by proving to her she has the ability to do good. In the final moment when Vi froze after seeing Warwick once again dying in front of her, Jinx realized that Vi was also stuck in a cycle of her own. With Jinx around, Vi would never be able to move on with her life. This is why Jinx faked her death.
@@00000005547 I understand the story beats. I am pointing out that at that moment in time these things could be seen to be true: she was independent for the first time (yes, she had this pillar of "Powder" in her head that she has relied on to survive in Prison), she wasnt tied to anything except that promise that was bestowed upon her to protect Powder, and we can recognise she feels some love for Zaun (or atleast some attachment to it). As this video mentions, by the end of S1 she loses Powder, her defining purpose and what she has lived for and allowed her to cope during those years, so immediately off the bat S2 feels mischaracterised for the lack of reaction or sense of psychological derailing in Vi because im not convinced that Cait could fill that hole that Powder filled for all her life, especially considering Vi and Cait had that "Oil and water" conversation only moments before, disingenuous as it was or not. When it comes to Vis arc, it is not something I interpret or think is rushed, I actually know it is rushed (the writers, CL in particular, speak that they were "more interested" in other characters) and even further borderline ignored, which is easy to see when you try to gain insight into Vis conflict being an enforcer (that is HUGE, the first shot of Vi is literally her having this aggression towards enforcers and piltover in general, so the road cannot be that easy because she heard Maddie say Cait talked about her in good conscience) as well as her experience as an enforcer and how she tackles with her identity which she has clearly lost. She is no longer a zaunite or someone in Piltover, just in Limbo on a downward spiral but all we get to sum up those feelings is 3 minutes worth of a MV montage. There is actually more characterisation present for vi and her loss of identity as a zaunite Ingame than you can hear in Arcane. And this downward spiral she can quickly snap out of because Jinx tells her about Vander, and it is like this manic episode has not occurred at all as it does not bleed throughout the season, despite a mere cosmetic change (that cait washes off of her literally in act 3). But, I am diverging onto what I think was horrible about Vis arc, much as you have when I clearly just pointed out my grief with her dependency on Cait. Her being dependent on Cait and needing someone to lean on is not Vi having broken the cycle or much less her being able to choose, the mere fact that Jinx has to be the one to break Vis cycle speaks for itself. And again, I still haven't seen any growth that can indicate Vi will not turn back into this prison-like cycle of pitfighting and violence. And also on your last line there "with jinx around, vi would never be able to move on with her life" I find ridiculous as a narrative because they were at peace with eachother at act 2 (I find the grounds being Vander personally superficial and lazy all the same but the point still stands). I dont see any reason as to why Vi and Jinx cannot be sisters, since what brought them apart were external factors rather than internal. Having your family ripped away from you so you can "Learn", is depressing as hell and from Vis perspective that in no way can help her heal given she has this guilt complex thats been haunting her since season one. She watched her little sister fall from her grasp, how does that not psychologically damage you? If Vi and Jinx left eachother on their own terms, if they felt they had to separate in order to grow that had to be mutually felt or understood otherwise (and as it stands) it is completely unsatisfying. But hey, if youre happy with Vis arc i feel so good for you, but me personally I hate it. And im not looking to be convinced otherwise Ive spent too much time in comment sections albeit twitter or youtube going through these same arguments.
@@nuxjoecan you drop you’re Twitter or something? What you said is very well thought out and it helped me wrinkle out some of the reason I felt irked and unfulfilled with S2. I just want to be able to read more of your thoughts if that’s okay with you!
I love Cait and Vi, but I really wish Cait at least verbally apologized to Vi, and it feels like the show didn't really acknowledge just how badly Cait treated her in that scene where they split up. I feel like Vi forgave her too easily for what Cait did. I mean, after all Vi has been through because of enforcers and her begging Cait not to change, just for Cait to hit her VERY HARD with her gun and then tell Vi she was "no different from the rest of them." That was just way too far for me. I get Vi cost Cait her chance at killing Jinx and avenging her mom, but there was an innocent kid who was in the middle of the crossfire. But it's the way she immediately turned on Vi after, especially with all Vi did for her to help her.
i still like s2, but they absolutely forgot what the story was originally about. viktor is my favorite character, and i think his story is very interesting, but jinx and vi’s relationship did not deserve to get completely discarded just to get a grand fight scene that ultimately did not interest me whatsoever. i love your points on how all the character growth happens off screen, because that is exactly what i was struggling to put into words when thinking about season 2. everything is season 1 has a very clear reason for happening - every decision and emotion you can very easily tie to the character and what happens to them. but season 2 just doesn’t have that?? it left me feeling very odd after watching, and i’m glad you talked about it. i’m not going to go into mel in detail bc her arc lowkey pisses me off (i loved the fact that her main strength was the social game! she is not a fighter!!) but this season had so much potential and so much of it was squandered. it just. agh it annoys me so much. thank you for making this video and saying it all better than i ever could.
@@michaelh13 Because their story was literally the heart and backbone of the entire narrative, next to the conflict between the cities. And BOTH were overshadowed by the poorly executed and overblown Viktor and Noxus plot lines that consumed the seasons entire last Act.
There should have been a s3, because there is so much story to tell. S2 was too crammed, less space for characterfocus. Still think its one of the best series of the last few years.
@@DLxxx You missed the point of the show. There IS no main character, except the world itself; Vi and Jinx are just the representatives of the Zaun experience, and the Noxus plotline introduces us to a bigger picture of life outside Piltover. You could remove Jinx and Vi from the show and a lot of the beats of the narrative stay the same, and the alternative universe demonstrates that world is actually better WITHOUT Vi.
It was pretty disappointing that it felt like in the last episodes that Vi and Jinx became such an afterthought with a hasty conclusion. Especially when their conflict was the centerpiece of the whole series! It soured such an amazing show. I can only hope they do something to make up for it in continuations.
You might enjoy "Word of Honor," then. It has a similar concept to "Arcane." It's subject to Chinese censorship laws, so one thing you should take note of is that "cut-sleeves" is a Chinese term for gay.
@@ThePrincessCH Interesting! Does "cut-sleeves" refer to t-shirts' sleeves being cut so they're like tank tops showing your arms? Would love to know more of Chinese often implicit ways of coding and signaling people being gay/ queer, so if you can share more or know of a resource that does - that'd be amazing!
@@misoume9859 It's from an old story set in a time when people in China wore baggy sleeves. An emperor wakes up to find his male lover sleeping on his sleeve. To not disturb him, he cuts off his sleeve. I think the story is called "Huang Jiulang."
@@misoume9859The term is from a story about an emperor who wakes up to find his male lover sleeping on his sleeve. Instead of disturbing him, the emperor cuts his sleeve.
My biggest problem with Mel's empath mage plotline is that it feels like it kind of discredits her agency. like in season 1, we see her time and time again demonstrating her abilities as an incredibly skilled tactician. then towards the end of season 2 we get an exposition dump about how actually her magical powers from her bloodline allow her to sense others' inner selves- I don't like this. it feels like they're trying to say that her magic powers are why she's a good tactician and why she has such high emotional intelligence. is she so good at building political partnerships and making tactical risks because of her dedication and practiced skills? nah its because of her magic bloodline.
Nah this video is so real. As a Viktor fan, I find it pretty ironic how the 2nd season perfectly embodies one of his quotes from the 1st season. “In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.” Arcane had a perfect story in the character driven class conflict between Zaun and Piltover, but the writers & producers threw it aside for the otherworldly Viktor plotline, which I have many MANY gripes with, because if the magic plotline was going to have such a huge impact in the story, very little was explained about just how the arcane is meant to function. (Heimerdinger was literally the prime character for this, but he went completely underutilized past season one and it hurts my soul-) It felt like the show itself, just like Viktor as you said, lost its humanity and lost itself in turn, completely abandoned the characters that were essentially the core of Arcane’s storytelling, in the pursuit of cinematic grandeur. We didn’t need multiverses & alternate timelines, we just needed a grounded narrative. It really saddens me because Arcane was SO CLOSE. In a vacuum, a lot of the major scenes in season 2 were breathtaking, but when the walls are lifted, it simply shatters. The pieces were there, ready to be put together, but they kept creating new ones, leaving the puzzle unfinished altogether. I love Arcane, I’ve never watched something so visceral before. Which is why it’s truly a shame it ended up being squandered. ;-;
Totally agree. I only hope some of their decisions get retextualized in future seasons. I didn't think I wanted a lot of carry over between 2-season-arcs, but if they don't crtl alt delete some of the charachter stuff from this season, I'll be bummed.
Yeah season 2 you can tell they had alot of the wants of the plot story boarded and they knew how they wanted to get there... But when it came to actually making those scenes they just did not have time to actually do it. I think it's funny they repeatedly insist that it was always intended to be 2 seasons because it seems like not everyone on the team got that memo. There just was not enough time to do everything they were trying to do.
I think the hextech plot line can actually be really fuckin good, but it's a whole other story line. 9 eps wasn't enough because they're trying to make 2 stories: - a story of class issues seen through the ruptured relationship between 2 sisters -a cosmic story of the cost of ambition and the price of invention seen through the bond of 2 inventors. Both could be good stories it's just "2" different stories
I just dont think this is true, we dont even SEE Viktor till Episode 6 in terms of this "otherworldy plotline" and then really only in Ep8-9 is it explored in a meaningful sense. It still has ties in with where we all knew Viktor was going. It ties in with his relationship to Jayce, hextech and magic. It ties in with Ambessa and the war between the cities. So I just dont see it as season ruining as all of you do. Like you see this finale of a battle against Viktor and assume the rest of the season just dropped everything? When? All the themes are there, just elevated.
Isha was such an obvious plot device lol, I found it hard to become attached and felt nothing when she died. Every single character got done so dirty this season and the writing quality declined. We needed more episodes :/
The thing is we didn't need more episodes. The setup of S1 could have easily been wrapped up in 9 eps. It's all the random plot points they decided to introduce in S2 that themselves eventually don't go anywhere. The underground power struggle, the characters introduced in ep1, Noxian raid, Black Rose, the MULTIVERSE...all don't even get a proper ending. (Also Isha was....fine. There are like 10 things I would want to change before the whole Jinx Isha relationship.)
I kept hoping there'd be a surprise Adult Isha Returned From Being in an Alt Hex Dimension reveal in Act 3 because I refused to accept that the writers would unironically use her as nothing but a plot/"character" device LMAO
You might enjoy "Word of Honor," then. It has a similar concept to "Arcane." It's a Chinese made show, so it's subject to their censorship laws. So, one thing you should take note of is that "cut-sleeves" is a Chinese term for gay.
i felt VERY devastated, and i still cry watching her death scene but i realize the only reason i feel that way isn't because i actually felt that attached to her character, it was because of how JINX was attached to her. her reaction is what makes it so sad but without her i don't think i would have felt that strongly. yeah maybe that's how most death scenes are supposed to go but it could have been a much more impactful scene if i actually cared about isha more than just what jinx thought of her
makes sense why i barely cried when she died 😭😭 lowk thought there was something wrong with me when i saw how everyone else reacted, but its that lack of attachment, there was nothing to get attached to
46:28 My problem with Vi choosing herself in the prison scene is that she doesn't reach out first. Cait is the one who reveals that she sent the guards away to free Jinx. So, Cait makes the first move, signals to Vi that she chose Vi, and Vi then just reacts.
wdym she doesnt reach out, caitlyn is literally telling her that she let her do this so of course if she wants to go after her sister she would understand, it's vi who takes her by surprise going for the kiss and staying with her
@@sarah1250Her body language, expression, and flirty line communicate otherwise. It's confusing what she actually wants from Vi if you take her words at face value while ignoring everything else. As the video maker said: Caitlyn may SAY Vi can go after Jinx, but she LOOKS like she wants to make out. It's completely fair to feel like she prompted Vi's response, even if it was nonverbally.
@@DLxxx when she went there she was frowning, voice tight till she saw how vi was self deprecating badly for choosing wrong, hands around her neck and forehead pressed on the wall, so caitlyn tries her best to not prolongue this suffering, showing her in a teasing way that she knows her, she expected vi to try to do this and she's okay with it, its obviously that vi saw caitlyn putting her love for her first, after months of hallucinating her and yearning she WANTED her so badly so she launched herself to her when she saw caitlyn chosing her
no to mention, everytime they stopped kissing it was caitlyn pushing away and vi pulling her in (like 3 times), i agree that writing wise vi was not done good this season at all, i just dont agree with the unsaid statement that caitlyn went there with sexual/flirty intentions, thats reading the scene so badly, especially because the animators also put their hardwork to show caitlyns surprise at how unexpected the kiss was for her
it was so OBVIOUS this season was rushed and it’s really sad. this series really could’ve been an avatar: the last airbender but instead we got a dexter.
@@peperomiapizza They probably had a simpler idea for S2's story initially, but after all the hype (and a bunch of misguided decisions and external pressures) decided to make it as "epic" as possible to justify taking 3 years to make. Even though you should never have to justify not rushing good storytelling.
holy cow you nearly vocalized all the qualms I had with this season LMFAO I was wondering why it didn't feel as right as the first season other than pacing but :( literally complained with my friend about how little vi contributed to the story in s2 it was SOO UPSETTING when she was our favorite AGHGHHHH
@@moonymybeloved "8 hour fever dream of a fanfiction" is the best way you could've described it, it's exactly what it felt like while i was watching it 😭
@@彩-i5iSame, lol. All I could think when they were fighting Smeech was "Is this supposed to be 'Team Jinx' or something?" It felt like the only reason those two were helping Jinx, is so she wouldn't have to face Vi and Caitlyn alone. And I get it, because she would realistically have no chance otherwise, but.. Isha just pops up out of nowhere feeling like s self-insert, and all of Sevika and Jinx's severe bad blood gets too easily swept under the rug (I agree that her creating the arm, while a nice moment, needed more build up than just one quick scene). Also, Sevika’s motives for helping her fight Caitlyn are never made clear. The best you could say is that Sevika wants to strike back at the Enforcers gassing the streets, but we literally never saw her react to the destruction left behind by Caitlyn & Vi whatsoever.
I'm so happy I'm not alone in being disappointed at season 2. I've been losing my mind by all the discussions with people. They straight up massacred my girl Vi :(
her having s*x with Cait in the same cell her sister was just rotting in is the most unlike Vi ever... Vi is the kinda girl who would have grabbed the keys and run after her sister to stop whatever stupid s*it Jinx was about to do , as an older sister to a depressed little sister I just cant ever imagine reacting like this...like wtf your sister literally tells you she is about to "end the cycle of abuse" ....and your reaction is to have s*x with your crush? Nah... my sisters life is definetly more important to me than my libido, I wouldnt even have in mind to have s*x at a moment like this also arent these cells kinda traumatizing for Vi aswell? since she herself rotted in there for many years
Vi knows how to pick a lock as seen in S1, so why did she not open her jail cell and go after Jinx? They really dragged Vi into a dirt. And whats her last line in S2? "Im the dirt under your nails." Its obvious the remaining writers hated her, especially Christian and Alex, two boring white heterosexual male.
They told us this story was about jinx and Vi, sisters, opposite sides of a coin, etc etc. And what did we get for that promise?? Nothing basically. Let the suicidal character end themselves, sacrifice themselves apparently was the only solution. And Vi deserves better, we deserve better sapphic representation. I am so mad. I can't even see the good in this season 2, I am so blinded by my anger, tbh
And then later they said the story was always ment to be a romance story between Cait and Vi and the only reason they killed Vi's parents was to make more relationship drama for them 😭
THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT HOW WEIRD IT IS THAT JINX WAS LIKE. REWARDED FOR TRYING TO OFF HERSELF. They just made her do it differently 😭 God it’s so crazy to me that every character who was shown to struggle with suicide (Jayce, Viktor and Jinx) ALL ended up sacrificing their lives in some way like. It’s not rlly the same with Jayce and Viktor but it’s an insane coincidence.
It hurts my soul that so many shows are having way to long runtimes (The Walking Dead and others) whilst others like Arcane (and so many cancelled shows from netflix) don't get the seasons they needed
What’s sad about Arcane is, based on what I’ve heard, they were offered those multiple seasons. They shot the offer down to stick with just the two, when they really really needed at least a third season. I respect creators that know the limits of their show. But this is a show that ended to soon imo, for more than “but it’s so good and I love it!” reasons.
@@KS-tp1um Their stated reason was because they "spent nine years with these characters already," so they were experiencing burnout. But there's plenty of ways to deal with burnout in a long term project. Taking breaks and giving staff members time to individually step away from the project, for one. But also bringing in fresh writers with experience in the areas of writing they weren't as efficient in could've helped with this too (they proved they could make a masterpiece with season one, but that after being given twice the amount of time, having the freedom to be an adaption without the weight of executive meddling and fan expectations, and having twice the amount of years to redraft the story to a polished, mirror sheen).
@@DLxxx In my experience it takes a long time to create a good story (or script). And usually the writers know where the story is going and write with the ending in mind. Then there are the changes that happen on set, when actors maybe improvise or directors change some things while shooting. The shooting script usually ends up a bit different than the written draft. But not major changes. Here, maybe the voice actors or the animators had some freedom to improvise a line or two, a scene or two (like the CaitVi prison scene where the writers said that the animators improvised it, while they hadn't written it). But overall they should have had a draft of season two from when they started creating the whole show. Not sure how the production process works for Riot, how many writers worked independently on episodes - but I did check the credits on IMDB and the ones credited for S1 are mostly missing in S2. BAD decision imo to get rid of those writers - what's left is totally the opposite of good writing. Dialogue was horrid in S2, as well as character development and complexity, plot beats, the music went overboard but failed to land the same impact it had in S1... Character death and bad dialogue and missed beats made this season a caricature of "what could have been". Sadness.
@@bird.inspace One of the writers, Amanda Overton, said in an interview that they wrote season 2 during Covid lock down, the writers were reduced to only 3, most of the season's writing was done via zoom call, and she had to keep reminding Christian Linke, one of the other writers, that they needed to resolve Cait and Vi's storyline. That definitely played a huge part in the writing quality. Christian also said that the writers lost interest in Vi during season 2 and he overall doesn't seem very interested in character driven plots and more interested in action driven plots.
@@DLxxx "Their stated reason was because they "spent nine years with these characters already," so they were experiencing burnout" That's not an acceptable excuse. Imagine a chef experiencing burnout, then deciding to halfass your meal to focus on someone else's. That's not okay. That's unprofessional and unfair to your customer. If these guys don't care about their characters, then why tf are you telling their story? Idiots
One of the most interesting parts about Vi in season one is the way that her being stuck in the past drives her actions. She's captured by Marcus and interned in Stillwater indefinitely, only surfacing again because Caitlyn illegally has her released. From there, she's totally disconnected from the real problems in the Undercity AND the real problems with her sister. She still sees Jinx as the nine-year-old girl she was separated from all those years ago, and she believes taking Silco down will solve everything. Neither of those two things are strictly true; the reality of the situations is much more complicated, but she pursues what she thinks is the right course of action with single-minded abandon. The two most notable effects she has on the plot are the assault on the Shimmer factory where Renni's son is killed (collateral resulting from her zealotry which sends Jayce in pursuit of a truce) and the stress her attentions put on Jinx's mental state (she thinks Powder is still in there, if only she could reach her, as if people are so simple as that). There's nothing like that for her to do in season two - Vi has been robbed of all agency and just drifts wherever the plot requires, tagging along with either Caitlyn or Jinx depending on what act she's in. It's a tragic waste of potential, which is fitting, because if I had to sum up season two in four words, those would be they.
The whole arc of s1 is to go from powder to Jinx. The question at the end of the season s "Will she chose her sister and become powder or Silco and become Jinx?" She kills Silco, and then confirms her identity as Jinx. To give her a pet voiceless child to soften her, only to kill the child later for angst, is such a bad choice. It felt that the season prioritized big, dramatic, musical moments as opposed to actual development to make those moments meaningful.
Jinx went from a sympathetic villain to a likeable anti-hero because she's a fan favorite. Her excitement and creativity when it came to violence is what made her Jinx. She doesn't even "build something new" like ekko insinuated she would she tied a hot air to her HQ and used her machine gun. Compare that to Sevikas arm, her booby trap bombs, the shark rocket, the colorful gas, Isha-fied Jinx is not Jinx. It's like an Arcane fan who loved Jinx made an OC and inserted her into the show to instantly heal her. and then she's not even mentioned again after she dies. She might as well been an imaginary friend.
And yet they didn't even commit to the anti-hero thing. Like when Jinx busted everyone out of prison and there was a few seconds long emotional moment of everyone silently thanking her and it seemingly even moved her somewhat and then.... that was it. That was never ever built upon or anything.
Thank you for saying she's a sympathetic villain. People seem to think her being very sympathetic means she's not a villain, but she murdered people for fun and made jokes while doing it. She strapped a fake bomb to a guy's back because she thought it was funny to see him think he was going to die.
ALSO- what happened to that powerup of the gauntlets for when Vi learned to defend herself?? It happened during the bar fight with Sevika, and it was a pretty cool moment where Vi finally learns to defend herself rather than just attacking blindly. It never gets mentioned again??
Imagine she used that in her fight against Jinx.. She would've completely decimated her. I remember being so baffled as to why Jinx's bomb trap even worked in that fight, because Vi literally _put up her gurad,_ lol.
Loved what you said about the fact that Jinx choosing to be dead to Vi means that Vi DOESN'T get the choice to let her go. Even though that theme of walking away was conveyed through Jinx, it pertains to any conflict and any person within a conflict in the story. The ending of the show essentially puts Vi in the same place emotionally that the end of season 1 act 1 did. She's just lost her entire family again, and it's all because Jinx wanted to help Vi, which Vi can only internalize as being her mistake as a big sister. Much of season 2 felt like it sacrificed character writing for the sake of a theme or an emotion, and only used the existing characters as a means to get there with not much regard for HOW we get there, which is such a big shame. Great video!
I don't think I could accept Cait and Vi as a couple this season. Or, at least, not unless the show commits to its extreme toxicity! There is a lot going on in their relationship that makes my skin crawl, especially the way people romanticize it. I also agree that the sister relationship was really messed up this season.
Same and caitvi were so good in S1! I just think if they talked more abt their issues then it would've been better. Just a little bit of conversation PLS 😭
Me too even in season 1 I was pretty wary and cautious about how they were setting them up, it was a decent setup, I was looking forward to it but in season 2 the way it plays out is so horrible and problematic its almost insulting. They ruined and completely sidelined Vi and made Caitlyn irredeemable to me, her redemption was way too short and nonexistent there was no honest conversation or even proper acknowledgement of their issues from both Cait and Vi. Their sex scene while visually greatly animated, felt inappropriate with the current context of their characters arcs. I hate how the some of the fandom romanticize it too and brush off all the toxicity. Also I saw a bit of racism toward Ekko character with dictator Cait edits its disgusting. Like this is not the representation we need and deserve. I can't ship/support canon CaitVi in good conscious.
It's so strange how the 2 big romantic relationships in this season are toxic, with Cait just beating up Vi for half the season and Ekko falling in love with a mass murderer who has killed a bunch of his friends and has attempted to kill him.
THANK YOU! I was too scared to do a video on this for the potential massacre from the fans, but completely agree! My personal one is how they massacred my girl Jinx 😭like WHAT HAPPENED!!! THE AMOUNT OF POTENTIAL SHE HAD I JUSSSTTTTTTT😭
oh i've seen your thumbnails floating around!! i need to check out your channel as a fellow movie glirlie 🫶 and ngl my heart was POUNDING when i clicked 'publish' haha but i was so passionate i couldn't NOT make this video. i totally feel your pain with Jinx 😭
I felt very uncomfortable watching the prison scene and I think you helped me realize why. (And I've been hoping for this scene for 3 years so imagine my heartbreak, I even felt guilty for not liking it at first, since we have so little lesbian rep.) It felt very out of character. First off, why does Cait show up all smug and flirty? When she's meant to give Vi the choice to leave? And when Vi is clearly in distress and - both physically and emotionally - hurt? It threw me for a loop. Caitlyn's demeanor was so out of character compared to how she acts in their usual dynamic. They've both always been really gentle and sweet and sensible with each other. It didn't feel like the real Caitlyn, it felt like a fanfic. This whole season felt like a fanfic. It also felt like they were objectified. They really couldn't cut to them going to a bedroom? Or anywhere else? Really? Vi on her knees for an enforcer in a cell felt so wrong and uncomfortable. As you said, Vi has consistently been the hesitant one when it comes to love so it felt very jarring for her to just pounce on Cait and suddenly be all confident. Especially in the context of her situation (with Jinx, with Cait, with her own headspace, everything). You're right, it _should_ be more difficult for her but they don't show that. She felt objectified, like they wanted her to do all the action, In fact, she seems sxualized and fetishized with weird undertones throughout the whole season (the spitting on Cait's face, the handcuffs, the prison s*x) like they're not interested in her being loved or taken care of. Even _Maddie_ got a bed and pillow talk (Speaking of Maddie, so true what you said about Vi not giving a f. I didn't think much of it first but you're right it contradicts Vi's previously shown thoughts and behavior. I think they just had to cram it in there cause they couldn't leave it unaddressed. Just a whole mess.) Nitpick but while I'm venting: I also didn't like the lighting of the scene, it just felt off and claustrophobic, idk how to explain. Like don't get me wrong I love a good dimly lit scene but this just felt off. The blurred barbie doll bobblehead look didn't make it better either. And of course, as you said, it really didn't feel earned. Not just a s*x scene in general at that point, but especially a passionate one like that. _If anything_ , a gentle soft scene where they could start mending their relationship would feel more appropriate. Like, Caitlyn didn't even apologize, they didn't ever really talk at all. It didn't feel as heartfelt as it should, it felt more physical than emotional. Lust instead of romance, as you said. They truly ruined my favorite ship, I am so sad... I think the only caitvi moments I loved this season were in the first episode + the first kiss in isolation (but not when you take the context into account). Otherwise they were just fighting, arguing and being out of character. Woah, long rant... (If anyone feels differently I respect your opinion but this is how I feel)
“bobblehead” 🤣 it’s nowhere near the biggest issue with the scene but: i honestly wonder if the blurriness could have something to do with how queer people are often oversexualized? because i agree, i feel like they were blurred to the point it was distracting. and someone on x noted that both jinx and ambessa sideboob is shown so why not the same treatment for caitvi? again it’s not that big a deal but yeah it’s interesting
“Vi on her knees for an enforcer in a cell felt so wrong and uncomfortable.” YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!! that scene was so random and considering Vi’s history it was sooo weird.
The whole Maddie subplot was completely pointless. It was suppose to add some angst? But it meant nothing because she was a spy-and, by the way, she hated Cait the entire time. So, apparently, it’s fine that she died and it meant nothing. If that’s the case, why include it at all? It barely influenced the story, and it wasn’t even clear until the final episode that Maddie supposedly hated Cait. To make it worse, the writers kept giving different reasons for why Cait hooked up with Maddie, which just added to the confusion. But honestly, the idea that Vi would be indifferent or that Cait would think it was okay to do that is some of the laziest writing I’ve ever seen.
Cait's mother saying the underground deserves to breathe makes no sense. She was a "polite" classist, but she showed clear disdain whenever she encountered or spoke about someone from Zaun. She even turned her back on Jayce when it wasn't popular to support him. The last time we see her alive, she hesitates to vote for Zaun's independence, and only does so (with a bewildered face) once she sees everyone else vote. It seems this season wanted to absolve all the female characters of their sins. I'm convinced that the season wasn't just rushed, it was written by completely different people.
I agree Cassandra isn't _that_ great of a person, but I do think she had some nuance in Season 1. Specifically when she allowed Caitlyn to scream at her about the state of the undercity, and then proceeded to relent and schedule a meeting for her and Vi to personally talk to the council themselves. Also, before that, while she did leave Jayce out in the rain (and I'm not going to defend her decision whatsoever) she did at least vouch for his character when the rest of the council wanted to condemn him, and voted to let him return to his home instead of be exiled. If she were entirely self centered, she would've probably betrayed him in the trial instead of going against her fellow councilman. There's also a point early on where she flat out says "the Undercity cannot be controlled. Not by us." Implying she supports their independence, but wants it to go through the proper "procedures," as she says in the S1 finale. Though her angered reaction does make it clear that she's prejudiced and can't see too far past the cities own self interests.
No that makes sense, she didn't like the people from Zaun but that doesn't mean she doesn't think the underground shouldn't improve. That isn't true at all. Nah it wasn't really.
@Jdudec367 "they deserve clean air"... that's simply not something she would say. Tell me you seriously imagine those words coming from her lips based on how her character was presented...
@@remus4283just because her character was shown to present disdain against Zaun doesn’t mean she thinks they don’t deserve life 🤦♂️ everyone on the council knew Zaun was still under their influence and ruling, they knew that zaunites were still “their people”, but held certain grudges against them simply for being less than them in status and wealth. Clean air is literally the BARE MINIMUM for a civilization, so I can 100% see her saying “They deserve clean air”, but also saying “why would they need more than that?”. That’s why she was hesitant to declare their independence.
The whole season Jinx wanted to die, and when Isha, the only close person she has left, dies you'd think that will be her breaking point, but no cause Ekko talks her out of it OFF SCREEN just so she can get her spinoff later innthe future. I really hate MOST of the decisions the creator and writers chose for the show, transforming this nuanced show about trauma and human relationships into another game adaptation. Most of the story feels like they did it not for an artistic vision but for fanservice for gamers.
@clumsyninja925 he said... one line, and then it cuts to everything else, and then Jinx is back as a hero. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY SHOWED HIM TALKING HER DOWN???
@clumsyninja925 yeah, but, then we don't see the important part where he talks to Jinx and succesfully makes her change her mind. WHAT IS YOUR POINT HERE?
I rarely comment on things I don't like, but in the case of the second season of Arcane I find it hard to resist at times. By complete coincidence, when the first season of Arcane came out I was taking a creative writing course (I'm a copywriter by profession) one of the lecturers told us during a lecture on characterisation of main and side characters that if you want to see how to do character arc well and how to create characters that have both internal and external conflict for visual storytelling then analyse the plot of the first season of Arcane. Yes, that show was so good that lecturers pointed to it as a benchmark of good writing. For me, the first season is what screenwriters should strive for, not only in animation but also in live action movies. Peak visual storytelling with extremely competent writing. We had to wait three long years to see the completion of a story that promised to be one of the most epic we would ever see on television. Through the eyes of my imagination I could see the conflict between Zaun and Piltover growing, as two sisters fight on two opposing sides in a war between two social classes, one using hextech the other shimmer. A war in which each side has its own plausible reasons for fighting it, even though peace was so close. I could already see these future internal and external conflicts of the various characters (although you could guess that none of the game characters would suffer enough to completely change canon, after all, skins have to sell). And suddenly BOOM, the whole plot of the conflict between Piltover and Zaun flew into the trash - that was the first moment I thought - what was the whole first season for? It looked as if the writers were saying - oh no no gentlemen, that's in the past, now we'll show you a show about Ambessa having an affair 20 years earlier by which she has to gain power over hextech to defend herself from the Black Rose or something. On top of that we'll add cheap tear squeezers in the form of episodes featuring the return of Vander in Warwick's form, we'll forcefully tack on an underdeveloped Isha character (very good example how you shouldn't create an impact character), a mirror image of Powder so that not only Vi in the second season has her emo arc but also Jinx will be sad. Also, we will be ‘killing off’ but not actually killing off various characters so that they are then not even mentioned after their death, as if they never existed. In addition to this, some of the characters will disappear for almost a third of the whole season, but fear not, because in the last episode they will come back and save the world. And as the icing on the cake we'll throw in a shrex scene at the stupidest moment we can, even though we could have chosen 9 other episodes and a thousand other moments. And all of this at a pace that can only be competently followed if you pause the series every now and then and go back a few minutes, but at the same time we will throw in lengthy music videos to tap into the demographic of a 15-year-old with an attention span that only allows them to absorb short tiktoks. After the first season, the creators were one step away from greatness. It's a shame it didn't work out. Edit: the same lecturer who after the first season put Arcane as a benchmark when it comes to complex character creation, now cites the second season of Arcane as a benchmark for character assassination.
Perfect analysis. I will always be in awe of the brilliance of S1 - art, story, music. Clearly, life changing to all of us who watch it. And then S2 comes along and punches us in the stomach. The line, "What Could Have Been?" has never been so poignant.
@@shermk7955 I don't think the problem lies in the number of writers, there are many series that are entirely or mostly written by one person and are very good.
I feel for you so much!!! I personally never do get into discussions about anything, especially anything main-stream. And really rarely do I watch anything new. I either watch nothing at all or something along all-time classics. I watched Arcane in 2022-2023 or something. And I was mesmerized by how great this story is! I've never felt this amount of emotions from an animated show before that. Characters, stories, their ideas, emotions, actions it all made sense and such a pleasure it was to watch it all the way through! I never seen anything as good as Arcane S1. So I had my hopes on S2. And they eventually just...blew it. What I see is yet another empty MCU-esque action movie. They tried to show something and I perfectly see what it is, but it all just doesn't make any sense the way it's written and shown on screen. I rarely do feel for anything at all, but Arcane S2 just made me ballistic over how disappointing it is
Vi is one of my favourite characters of all fiction, and it hurts how they wrote her and the world around her this season. Had they written her better, the whole season would have improved so much, in my opinion. The way she could have been the link between Zaun and Pilltover, enforcers and the downtrodden Zaunites.... heck, Maddie's betrayal and Vander's enforcer look alike's death would have been more meaningful. It honestly felt like they explored Vi like a side character this season. This was a really awesome video essay and I hope you don't receive any hate for it. Everything you said was absolutely valid. Edit: Also, also. Am I the only one asking myself why Vi or Caitlyn never mentioned to Sevika how Jinx was the one who took out Silco when they were fighting?
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d What ever said opinions can't be valid? One can have a valid concern or critique even if it is just their own perspective because there is merit to it. Furthermore, is criticism the same as hate?
In the original lore Vi is an enforcer. It would've been interesting if the season led up to her becoming an enforcer in the end to help Zaun from the inside and keep the peace similarly to how Vander was trying to do.
I really liked the viktor and jayce stuff, but I totally see how the sisters' story was pushed aside for it. Despite the viktor stuff being really interesting, it did make everything kinda under developed with the focus being split.
Viktor stuff being interesting? Sorry what? They basically butchered the whole political drama for it. We lost all the interesting plotlines that was promised(Jayce dealing with the aftermath of his rogue deal, how they sort out Zaun's independence if they are even going to continue with it, and how they may have to consider international politics with the Noxians, who might I remind you, are an empire known for their invasions, why the fuck are the Piltoverians not suspicious at all.) What was it replaced with? This cheap ass sci fi plot.
I thought Viktor's story was interesting.....until they flipped him into another mcu villain. That sht took me out and I found it disappointing and boring. I didn't think Jayce's story was interesting at all. I thought it was conceptually interesting, but the way it was handled was rushed af and disengaging for me
@@Cecilia-ky3uw I understand that the show is flawed but I still enjoyed watching it. Even though in season 2 the plot and focus are messy I still liked elements of it. I can see how it might be hard for someone to look past the problems though.
This is exactly why we say we NEEDED ANOTHER SEASON. They had to set aside a very good part of the story and world because they wanted to be done with it to start other projects.
Neither of the stories from season 1 and season 2 were terrible. They just needed to decide on a plotline, which they didn’t really; it had to either be with Jinx and Vi and the divided city or Viktor and his thing going on
Agreed. Both were really good concepts, but they tried to do too much at the same time, leading to the quality of each plotline decreasing. It could've worked if the series went on for longer, to explore each plot in detail, even if it was slower. There was just so much skimmed over.
Don't forget about their third, extremely ambitious idea that made things extremely complicated and jumbled up the story, the Noxus and Black rose stuff.
In the first few episodes, I liked how they were setting up Viktor as the healer of the undercity and I thought it would build up to him and Jinx leading Zaun in the revolution against Piltover. That would've been so much cooler than ignoring all social tensions in favor cosmic spectacle
I'm not very analytical when it comes to large scale complex stories like arcane, so I thought I enjoyed this season, and I did. But after watching, it left a pit in my stomach like I knew it didn't feel right but I couldn't figure out why. All of the people that watched season 2 and loved it so much overwhelmed my senses, I guess. After having my vision cleared by this video, my conclusion is that the pacing felt really weird. I mean that in the most substantial way, as in a plot point from act 2 could have supported the story way more had it taken place in the first act (Vi's emo brawl fighter breakdown). It kind of feels like if you arrange each thing that happens in this season into a different order it would make way more sense, no further points required. If that is too drastic, A THIRD SEASON WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT, I don't think there wouldn't be enough content. It felt very rushed; I've rewatched already and still am confused. I have a deep appreciation for videos like these, because eventually I'd like to make a story of my own and often am guided by these critiques. Also, something totally unrelated: I loved this video so much and all the thought that was put into it, but I think it would be nice to hear different music playing in the background? Obviously that's low priority, however I'd love to hear some variety haha Anyways good work!
there are more considerations in the mix than just focussing on two characters... this is a LoL product so why the hell would they want to ignore their other characters? You've gotta put it all in some perspective here.
@@MetalDude-s1cas a league player, the other characters they focused on were either A. made up for arcane and then later added in game [ie, ambessa and mel] or B. completely rewritten after arcane season 1. if they wanted to focus on league viktor and league jayce, they didnt have to add all the shit with the arcane. all that you needed was one of them to try and help humanity, and the other to surpass it via cybernetics. thats a good side plot that can even BE political. Ie; is viktor doing eugenics? how does it help people to strip them of humanity? can jayce claim to help people if his position of power inherently means there will be people he has to step on? Viktor wasnt a god in lore before season 2, they rewrote him to be that way after the series ended. they didnt need all of that. they had noxus mentioned, sure, but they didnt need the black rose. ambessa and mel in season one were defined by strained relationships, not by magic or even by noxus.
Commenting before watching but I completely agree. Aside from au Powder and Ambessa, I felt Arcane's female cast was pretty poorly handled in S2. Vi is now a pretty much fully assassinated character who's never given time for her own characterization outside of her relationships with Jinx and Cait, constantly makes dumb choices, never gets oppurtunities to move the plot or her own journey forward (except maybe her instigating the sex scene, but while that is the closest thing she gets to development I still felt that was a way too sudden shift in her and Cait's current relationship, and despise the idea that her fucking in a prison cell is her overcoming her prison trauma). Her trauma is rarely explored, we don't get her perspective on basically becoming an enforcer and just abandoning all of her ideals, it's just a mess and her conclusion is horrible and actively regresses her as a character. Cait had a great arc in act 1, only for them to never deliver on her as a villain from that point on and have her switch up and let things be with Jinx so quickly that it honestly feels not only rushed but kind of cowardly to not have her actually do anything villainous in act 2. Her relationship with Ambessa is also underwhelming and I think there should've been more actual apologies from her to Vi. Mel gets thrown into sequel bait and given a dumb powerup, which just feels like a lazy way to make her a champion instead of actually exploring her more interesting characteristics like her morality, political skills, and dynamic with Jayce and the council. I know this might seem extreme but Mel's arc this season into a shonen mage feels like the one thing in Arcane that fully prioritizes product and advertisement over genuine art and serving the character/story. Jinx has more good qualities to her character this season but frankly I think she's just so watered down into a more palatable and less complex character in S2. Even in act 1. The omission of her psychosis is one of the biggest problems I have with the whole story, and after S1 ended with her seemingly fully embracing her Jinx persona and descending into a worse state morally and mentally, it's so out of character and kind of shitty seeing her just giving up on the Jinx persona even when she's finally getting praise for it. I'm not against her getting a redemption arc, but given the rock bottom she hit by S1, and just how awful of a person she was there, I think it would need way more time for her redemption to feel natural or earned. At least a third or fourth season. Not showing her be talked out of suicide by Ekko is also one of the worst writing choices this season. I get why people like Isha, and I don't hate her, but I also don't really feel anything for her. She's such a blatant plot device. She has absolutely no characterization, goals, motives, backstory, or personality outside of idolizing Jinx. She's just her emotional support child. Her lack of any lines just feels like a way to give her less personality and make it less likely for the audience to potentionally find her annoying (granted I'm at least glad we got some mute representation, but I think it's far from a coincidence that it's given to the child with barely any personality and is meant to be easy for the audience to attach to). Her relationship with Jinx feels like the most corny, generic dramedy part of Arcane, and her death didn't mean much to me since it was pretty easily preventable and clearly just to make Jinx sad. Maddie just doesn't work as a twist villain to me. We get no time to see her do evil things and make her unlikeable because they kill her off instantly. We get no exploration for her motives in the show (I know the creators confirmed she's a noxian but that's in outside material and even that doesn't go into what Ambessa and her goals mean to her specifically). Her stance around Cait is actually contradictory to what Ambessa wants, and she never does anything that serves to sabatoge Cait or pay off down the line. I genuinely don't get her point. Sevika not getting ANY lines after ep 4 feels like a disservice to her character and Zaun as a whole. Yes she's not a main character but she's important enough to deserve a full conclusion and proper screentime given to her arc. She hardly interacts with her foil Vi this season, and they establish an interesting united in grief dynamic with her and Jinx this season, only for Jinx to abandon her and the whole revolution plotline after ep 4 which makes the whole Zaun piltover classwar thing feel completely wasted, along with Sevika's character. The funny thing is, despite me feeling the female cast was pretty poorly handled, including compared to the male cast (who also have their issues but I felt Ekko and Jayce were handled pretty well), I don't think it's sexist writing. Arcane still does a good job at making its female characters strong in ways that don't feel performative but just genuinely portraying them as complex characters with strength and vulnerability, who can succeed or fail just like the men in their world. But that doesn't change that most of them are written in a very rushed and inconsistent way. Sorry for the rant I hope my points make sense here.
I had complete faith in Arcane S2. I had so much trust in the writers. There is no way S1 was just a lucky fluke, there were so many clearly intentional and brilliant decisions stacked on top of each other, i saw no way how S2 could be bad. Im so beyond disappointed. Im glad to see a few more critical videos popping up because the almost universal praise it gets is genuinely making me go insane. What did people even enjoy about S1 if they dont see all the massive flaws with S2? Was it really just the incredible animation and some shipping?
The red flags were all there before release. S2 was only in production for half the time of season 1, Riot burdened Arcane with carrying the main cannon (unlike S1, which was free to be an adaption and love letter to the community), and fans had EXTREME opinions that the showmakers were always likely to buckle to or misinterpret. Remember, despite being a masterpiece (made in slowburn over 6 years), Arcane S1 was still their very first TV shoe. I'm not surprised at all by how immature and irresponsible some of their creative choices with S2 were. Like, everyone loved the music at the end of Act 1, 2, and 3, but they loved it because of how well it complimented the storytelling (not subsistute for it). But the show makers saw that praise and went "Well, let's put musical montages in EVERY episode. I'm sure fans will love that!" Not realizing that by doing that, they made the important moments (and music in genral) feel significantly less impactful. Honestly, they just got too hung up on fanservice in general. They heard shippers wanted a passionate.. _moment_ between Cait and Vi, and proceeded to give us the infamous prison scene because they wanted to include it at all costs. Ekko's arc this season was completely disconnected from the Firelights, and almost entirely focused on Jinx, because the Jinx vs Ekko scene broke the internet, and they wanted to try and cater to Timebomb shippers. It's like they think the characters are toys sometimes, lol.
@DLxxx the thing is, alot of people are very happy with the season even if it didn't go into the depth or focus on particular things. that a certain segment of the fanbase wanted. I can definitely see the 'people pleasing' and fan service tendency playing a role for better or worse. I think in future shows more experienced people assisting in the planning stages will help things be more cohesive, so let's hope Riot hires a few more tv and movie industry vets to help out or at least consult with. Overall I personally enjoyed both seasons but I for sure can see the issues with season 2 as opposed to season 1. The danger of posing too many intriguing questions and not giving yourself enough time to answer them.
The answer is easy: The masses are really easy to amuse. Arcane S2 is yet another example of how you can manipulate your audience without providing any substance to your story whatsoever and still get away with it
i will NEVER get over the way they ruined vi (and caitvi but specifically vi) and i will forever be salty about it. baffling how so many parts of s2 even got greenlit in the first place. my girl went from badass main character to lobotomized doormat
im so pissed they fucked the saphic rep. disgusted at the oppressor x victim bs they pulled. cait straight up police brutalitied her girlfriend and never even verbally apologized
@@oi2715 Vi basically ditched her in favour of Jinx, which she was just 10 seconds ago committed to kill, all because of some random kid who she didn't know and didn't seem to have a problem with when the last kid died, of course Cait was angry, and then you've got the fact that Vi knows Jinx killed Cait's mother... and your mad Cait beat her down, and should apologise for Vi's betrayal.. are you dumb?
I said this elsewhere, but Vi's entire fall to the pitfighter arc and everything would've felt waay more impactful had they focused on her role as the "protector" more. Like, she's still stuck battling a ghost of the past and wants to do things by herself, the only difference being she's doing it to protect Caitlyn now. She could've completely rejected taking the enforcer path until the final act and gone off on her own to finish Jinx off. She ends up being intertwined in Cait's path every time in her search for Jinx, which would've made the separation between the two much more heartbreaking, and their reunion all the more fulfilling. There is an entire separate idea I had regarding their reunion, but really, if they treated Vi a tad more maturely, the whole season would've felt so much more interesting-
It's toxic positivity at it's finest. Their are some amazing people in this community, but the bizzare defensiveness of the fandom after S2 is just not acceptable. Not in the slightest. Improvement and quality can't come from delusions, willfull ignorance, or the shutting down of meaningful criticism (or even just negative reactions in general). This should be a learning opportunity about importance of giving stories more time to be written, and why you shouldn't _ever_ mishandle the legacy of a timeless masterpiece like Season 1. I'm sure the people behind the season wanted it to be good (obviously no one wants to make a bad products that millions of people are passionate about), but their decision to cut the shows development short because they were simply getting bored of it (on top of other external pressures) should not be used as an excuse to handwave sway criticism, or make the consequences seem any less important than they actually are. The producers *chose* to not let the story reach the same level of quality as season 1. They chose to give themselves less time. They chose every single poor writing decision in this season, and their needs to be some sort of learning and accountability for that. We shouldn't be dog piling people just because you yourself don't dislike the season, or don't want criticism to affect your perception of it. That's just selfish and gross behavior.
@@DLxxx my god you patheric crying because people love season 2 and are not negtive nancys like you critisim is okay but when you act like a toxic person like you no wonder they insult you.your opinions is not correct one its just a opinion
i feel like vi’s rushing to become an enforcer was influenced by her league counterpart already being an enforcer and the writers wanting to cram it in as they couldn’t find any other time to do it. from a story writing standpoint, it would’ve made a lot more sense for it to just be vi and caitlyn going after jinx with vi only being an ally of sorts
@@ApexGamer-eo8zc I loved every character in S1, but her, Vi and Viktor were my favorites. I really liked how she was "just" a politician, but even without the magic/tech shenanigans she was way more powerful than the LoL champions. Imo her black rose plot was so rushed and making her another mage in a world full of them felt so unoriginal, at least in the rushed pacing of S2 :/ like girl didn't die in the explosion just to be character assassinated
@@bwslayer926 since when was jayce playing anything lmao. it's very solidified that she uses jayce for her own means, even if she does have true feelings for him they only start to show up when he's worth the investment.
It’s so true that they fumbled Vi in season two. Like it bothered me but I couldnt point out why, possibly because I was distracted by how hot emo Vi was, but you so are right, she is completely static😭 It would have been so cool to see her actually change and have an arc BECAUSE SHE IS A MAIN CHARACTER
I absolutely adored Jinx's character writing in S1. The way her mental illness was treated so maturely and with so much nuance was incredible. And the fact they hard committed to her being a terrible person who murders and kills at the drop of a hat, and have that be remembered in the conflict was brilliant. Ekko tells Vi so many times that hey she's a different person now, you can't change her Vi. And he's right. Powder is gone, Jinx remains. What could've been being the final line of the season is also great. It shows that there's no going back. There's no bridge left for Powder to return. It's hauntingly tragic but makes complete sense with the people Vi and Jinx became. S2 told me that actually its not what could've been, its what will be. Jinx will be a hero, she will get a child dropped on her head from the sky that will fix all of her mental problems, and her Vi and Vander will be a happy family again. It's incredibly childish and spits on almost every point the first season tried to make about the cycles of violence and how people end up the way they do. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I was livid. Jinx was so well written in S1 but now she's just become another Harley Quinn whereas before she was the best in that archetype. They never bring up her murders against so many innocent people because the message S2 wants to have conflicts so much with it. I loved Arcane and S2 destroyed my faith in Riot, and my faith in any future projects. There's gonna have to be some incredible recommendations for me to give af about anything new this team produces.
I think your expectations are insane for a show with so many elements to juggle. As much as I love them, there's a lot more going on than just Vi and Jinx in the story. I think it was a fine conclusion considering the complexity of the show and the characters, and attempted to give the main characters all a good spotlight. I was just happy not to see woke trash for once from a modern show, with characters that actually had some depth, with a great voice cast doing wonders with the material. I think you're being insanely harsh, all things considered.
@@MetalDude-s1cbut the writing in s2 was extremely disappointing, i 100% understand that the team would want to move onto the new projects but i don’t ever except anything else from Arcanes future projects to be as good as Arcane s1. If they didn’t loose interest in Arcane s2 would’ve probably been as fantastic if not better than s1. It makes me wish if they lost interest just leave s1 be a standalone show. The finale in s1 concluded the main plot line perfectly.
I think vi’s stubbornness like you mentioned helped her keep up this idea that she tried to convince herself of, repeating over and over again “my sister is gone” so she can trick herself into believing it, but I don’t think she ever really did. It ties into her guilt, she felt as if she needed to push aside her true, personal feelings and bury them in favour of feeling how she felt she had to. I don’t buy it at all when she says the line about not blaming herself anymore, it always felt to me like a very obvious bold faced lie. She absolutely does, it’s why she joins the enforcers in the first place. It influences almost everything that she does
EXACTLY!!! Thank you!! Lmao I couldn't put it into words in my own comment so I'm glad I found someone who did. The enforcer arc felt like punishing herself. Being around the system that killed her family and put her in prison would be a constant reminder of that. That's why her transition into the brawler arc made sense to me. She didn't start the self-destruction then, it started in that alley with the whiskey, it started when she said yes to the badge. (edit: this is also why the first Jinx/Vi fight doesn't feel high stakes. Vi is lying to herself and Jinx doesn't really want to win.)
exactly this! it kills me when people think she went along with it with absolutely no reservations just to appease caitlyn. It was obviously an incredibly hard decision for her and she looked absolutely miserable doing it
great point! i actually flip flopped a LOT on Vi’s thoughts on Jinx in Act 1. initially, i DID think Vi was lying to herself, like you mentioned, when she says her sister is gone. but what confused me is that she lets Cait take the shot. and she would’ve killed jinx if not for isha. it isn’t until Isha interferes that she realizes her sister might still be in there. i went with “actions speak louder than words” in this case haha but i do think lying to herself is believable too. whichever the case, i wish we saw into her mindset more so that it was clear!
@@artatmidnight yeah I can totally see both interpretations! I had the same dilemma. I just think it tracks with her character and flows more smoothly to assume she wasn’t being entirely truthful I honestly think she allowed caitlyn to take the shot not because she wanted her sister dead or because she truly thought she was gone, but because she felt like she was burdened with the responsibility of rectifying the situation because she felt as if she caused it. Again, playing into her guilt and tendency to self blame
@@scarlettwisteria Wait, huh? So you think Vi, as a result of feeling responsible and burdened by her sisters actions.. gave Caitlyn the burden of killing Jinx, instead doing it herself? Isn't that completely backwards? Vi should be insisting she herself is the one to finish Jinx, not the other way around. Moreover, the intentions of the strike team contradict itself. In the prior episode, Smeech (one of the chembarons) said that Piltover wanted Jinx alive so she could be tried for her crimes. Yet Caitlyn and Vi immediately try to kill her when they DO have her pinned? I'm pretty sure that's why the video maker was so (understandably) shocked when Vi let Caitlyn attempt to fatal shoot her sister.
Almost every musical shortcut should have been a full episode. Cait and Vi hunt, Cait as dictator, Jinx rising as hero of Zaun... They skipped so many important scenes for the sake of glorious evolution...
I think it is pretty obvious that Jinx intends to kill herself, through what jinx says to vi in the cell, along with the fear on Vi's face when she asks what she's going to do. This followed by Vi completely forgetting about Jinx to make out with Caitlyn, in my opinion, can't be justified
@@jamesturnbull128 I don’t agree. The fear vi has is more to do with not knowing, she’s scared because jinx is unpredictable. It’s pretty obvious in what she says to cait afterwards that she most likely assumed her sister just ran away and left her, she just didn’t predict HOW she’d be leaving her. It’s why she feels a sense of betrayal above all else The audience has more knowledge than vi as a character so it’s easier for us to sniff out and see the signs that she may not, but even then I’ve seen people referring to that scene and saying they too had no idea what jinx was implying, so it’s not outside the realm of possibilities I don’t think she completely forgot about jinx, I think she just took a few moments to stop tormenting herself with blame and the need to always put others before herself. I was actually proud of her for doing so
Nah, Jinx's message was vague and the audience has the upper hand knowing more about Jinx than Vi. Plus I feel like certain people are putting too much on Vi; considering Vi is broken and has had a shtty life but still tried to save her sister... and just couldn't do it. It's like people just want her to forever chase a lost cause. I don't blame Vi for moving on, trying to save Jinx was a fool's errand because that's just Jinx's character. Vi offered to run away with Jinx (& leaving Cait behind) to save her and even broke her out of jail, but Vi kept getting back stabbed. Vi ended up in a prison cell twice because of her lol. But who opened Vi's prison cell twice? Caitlyn, and she's the best thing in Vi's life. So I don't blame her doing something good for herself for once. And then saving the world.
Ah yes, whenever there's need to justify a lesbian sex scene here there are the defenders for it. Jinx has pretty bad mental conditions and obvious tendencies to S-word (afraid my comment might get deleted geez). And Vi knows that. The normal human behaviour in this kind of situation is to be alarmed and intensely worried in regards of safety of your closest relative. However those who live in a fantasy pink-googles world would behave the way Vi and Cait did in this scene. There's no way a normal human would even consider banging someone in such circumstances. This scene has no justification behind fan-service, since Catevi fans (sometimes with "-atics") really craved for it. Writers had no time to develop both Jinx and Catevi arcs simultaneously giving both enough time and explanation to develop, so they eventually mixed them up and it resulted in a mess
Your point about them portraying lust rather than love actually perfectly embodies how I've been trying to describe my issues with CaitVi and pretty much any couple in the show. I don't think romance was ever this show's strong suit and it was a disservice that it started to become Vi's whole personality.
Thank you for this! There's a lot to love about S2, but ultimately I was so disappointed by it! My most prevalent thought was that I feel like i'm not getting the most out of this show because I don't and will never play LoL. I definitely think Mel was assassinated harder than Jinx or Vi, but given that she was a side character as opposed to the shows core focus characters, it was an easier pill to swallow.
Mel deserved better :( the Black Rose subplot should have been removed. It was so confusing as a non-league fan and part of what made Mel so interesting was her political sway and her intelligence but now she fights like everyone else. She also lost her beautiful white dress which was a crime lol.
@@MoonlightBrillance Also her whole outlook was finding her worth away from the place where her qualities and strengths were looked down upon, only to become what her family wanted and going back to it :/
SO. there will be more "Arcane" just not set in Piltover. It will be Noxus. So while I didn't love Mel's stuff, it is set up for the next show. LOL released a new animation about Mel in Noxus called "bite marks".
As much as I loved season two, and even though it’s not as good as season one, I’d still say it was great, I felt frustrated too. Especially with Vi, who deserved to have her views, trauma, and character explored just as much as the others. Overall so many good setups were made in act 1, just to be rushed and leave us to fill in the gaps with implications and our imaginations. It’s a shame, really, and I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s frustrated about it all.
Same I dont want anything else. S2 had a great set up with s1 and they failed in every aspect. They wont even have that great set up for the next project, its going to be terrible through and through 😭
I was so sad when they stopped showing jinx's voices bc it js felt like they disconnected from her og plot. I also rly didn't like the last episode bc it was basically abt Jayce and Viktor and I ain't here for that 🫤 also, the last episode js seemed random nd kinda rushed the 1st time I watched it
I thought it was just me that felt Vi was so off in season 2. She didn’t even act like herself half of the time and had a weird lack of impact on the plot. She kind of just served other people’s arcs or jumped from place to place which was slightly jarring bc a big aspect of her character (like you said) is that she’s stubborn 😭 The characterization was just not there all the way for her
Finally a video that helps me see clearer in the odd feeling S2 left on me. It's crazy that the fandom is allergic to any critique of the show, yes; it's visually stunning, Fortiche is amazing but good visuals can't save poor writing choices !!! i feel so bitter about most characters, they have lost depth and humanity
26:02 I heard somewhere that they were both supposed to die in the explosion, like you mentioned, and the gray coming up is their big finale, she wants a flamboyant outro to their big cycle, the sisters are dead. But still I agree, I would kill for more explanation 😭😭
watching the first episode I immediately felt that vi just wasn't vi anymore. the thing that confuses me so deeply is that in season 1 Vi's character revolves fully around powder, her only motive and reason for living is protecting her sister. in season 2 she turns on her fully after Jinx bombs the council and sure Cait's mom was in it but a lot of people don't seem to take into account that Vi had already seen Jinx do awful things and despite that still loved her and still fought for her. she knew she killed firelights and innocent people via talking to Ekko, she watched her nearly kill Cait several times (the explosion on the bride and then holding a gun to her head) she watched her shoot Slico and kidnap her and Caitlyn both. Vi already knew Jinx was twisted but yet her final line in season one is "it's okay, we'll be okay." there is noooo way in hell Vi would realistically turn on Jinx as fast as she did. of course I knew that they would eventually fight, it was always destined by the intro and the general game lore but there needed to be a slower decent into Vi realizing she can't save her and more guilt shown as well not the hard turn which was clearly just lazy writing
Only 9 mins in but I 1000% agree-I was so charmed when Isha initially showed up, but I was confused when she kind of got relegated to be such a simplistic character. Jinx taking care of a child is such an interesting concept that was way over-simplified and Isha herself was done a character injustice in my opinion.
GOD, the timing of this video couldn't be better. I literally finished Arcane just a day ago, and felt the need to vent to at least someone this whole time, but, my goodness, there's completely noone in my social circle, who'd understand why I'd f_king break down in the middle of conversation. Thank you, truly thank you for this video. Now, I guess, I'm going to vent out "a little". The main problem, is that I couldn't even believe what I just watched, as I said, I was watching Arcane after it ended, and I honestly couldn't believe that it ended. But it wasn't the same feeling as when finishing shows, you want more, because you loved characters and wanted to continue the story with them, and just couldn't let them go due to love. No. This time, compered to season 1, I was left conpletely shocked, dumbfounded and genuinely confused. Never before, after finishing a show, was I left staring in complete void in the darkness, not shocked by the events, but shocked that THIS is the way story ended. The amount of questions unanswered was driving me insane. Starting of with an elephant in the room, the "Glorious evolution". Genuinely, I don't HATE it. No, but I don't dare to say that I'm satisfied with it. God, I love the way it was portraited. I loved the themes, topic, references and all. Especially the concluding question whether a life without any pain, any problems and any emotions could still be counted as a life at all. It was beatiful. But, I hate the way it was handled, even the timing felt off. I was surprised when it was introduced in ,like what?, half of the season?. I thought that after the 1 act, we'll be going into more deatailed analysis of grief, like Jinx's , through Caitlyn, and I was thrilled by this, but no. The moment I realised just how much screentime is now on this topic, it felt like a litteral slap in the face. And the worst part? It's that, the reason why I even fell in love with Arcane in the first place, characters, more importantly, character's growth, arcs and literally everything had to fight for the screentime with something that wasn't even supposed to be in this fight whatsoever. Now, we've gotten to my main issue with this season. Characters Actually, most of this would be centered mostly on Caitlyn, maybe because for me her arc was the most interesting, or given that her arc was the most confusing and when trying to analyse the characters I was having the most problems with it. But either way, I need to start this with my main thesis: I believe, Caitlyn went through the most changes as a person. Or rephrasing it, Caitlyn's arc is packed with events. And I guess, "the blade cuts both ways" As said earlier, I was expecting the show to get to the topic of grief and loosing someone, and coming with it guilt that if it wasn’t for you, and you just killed that one person THEN, all of this wouldn't be happening NOW. And ,my god, I was completely fine if they made Caitlyn into a villian, but I guess, with her character, I'd see her more of an antagonist. But, my point isn't only the way she was hadled in this season, it also how her season 1-self was almost conpletely brushed under a carpet. Like, what? I know, grief and guilt are strong emothions, they ARE able to completely change person. But, that won't erase s1 Caitlyn completely, the only scene in which she actually feels like herself is dialoge with Jayce. She grieves her mok, she hates Jinx, but she still loves Vi. And her single line that now she understands just how easy it is to hate after one wrong action, is what .ade me see her as complex. But, later, the only parts in which we now see her contradicting emotions are argues with Ambessa and Vi. And it felt okay, but it wasn't enough. Enough to forgive her. Enough to believe when she teams up with Vi. Enough to believe when she let Jinx go. I felt confused not only by the absense of character I once saw in s1, but also by just how drastically she can change in just one episode. And loved how you conveyed this in you video. Every change felt too fast, too sudden, too easy, and just too much. And we could have had just reasoned this whole problem with her mother's death. But no. Jinx's downfall was both written and handled absolutely perfect. Maybe I'm greedy too much, and asking for something completely impossible. But, just to think that that little British always fighting for justice altruistic pookie from s1 was poorly, harshly, hastily, roughle rushed into now,i believe, one of the most hated characters. And what's even worse is that this same pookie was the reason I even fell for Arcane, yes aside from story and drawing, I love Caitlyn, I even got to conclusion that she's my favorite character out of them all. And again, it hurts to think that most of this pookie is forgotten. But at least this was reasonable enough, after finishing the show this wasn't my main reason for tears anymore. I agree with people saying that pacing wasn't the problem of this season, it's really close to season 1. But rather how the pacing didn't have as significant points as season1. Like, how you couldn't even tell when character changed, if they even did at all, or how this action changed the story, if it changed at all, etc. It didn't follow the sturcute old as time "action-reaction". Most of events just happen, and we don't get to see how those or theese character are reacting to it, or how it impacts the story. Or it's only one of this, either reaction or impact. For example: 1. The usage of The Grey. How it was handled? Jinx using that same ventilation to now paint the Piltover. Ok, later? How does it impact the story? Nope, we are going to forget it, forgive Caitlyn for this, and never bring it up. 2. Mel's captired by the Black rose. Reaction : none almost forgot about it while watching. Impact: now Mel knows how to use her powers, and she is now a magician. And of course even worse scenario : Caitlyn becomes the ruler of Piltover. Reaction? If you count the Zaun, it was more based over the whole revolution thing going there, and even then it was ,as i remember, I still haven't rewastched, just covering baners with paint, or that scene with Ambessa's guardian abusing Zaunite, that same guardian was the reason for people of Zaun to hate Piltover more. Impact? I think, we could have left this whole part of her arc and story won't be changed too much, actions would this be going even if Caitlyn still stated as just one of the enforcers, or it's just me who watched Arcane with my eyes closed. And again comparing her with season1. In the name of my fricking last braincell, Caitlyn had much more impact on the story. Heck, everyone of the main cast had more impact on the story! Just Caitlyn alone, freed Vi, saw Jinx, almost killed Jinx, brought up to the council the idea of living in peace with Zaun. Her main force in season 1 was to explore and answer numerous questions she had in mind, that's the reason of her investigation and all. I'm upset that just so mush was in too much. Either way, I'd still want to talk about this. And ,I guess, I'm free to discuss it. I guess that's it. Honestly, it's the first time I'm leaving a comment under your video, and it's supposed to be kinda important moment. And genuinelly I want to thank you, creator, for letting my thought be heard under you video. Truly, thank you. Thank you, for reading. Pss, english isn't my first language so if do see gramatical or any other typo. Please tell me about, I want to become better in English, don't be afraid. Now. Bye👋
i personally loved this last season of arcane (i'm biased, i hold in my heart a special place for this series), but it was butchered by the run time. a third season would have arranged the storylines, their delevopment and their ending masterfully enough to conclude in a perfect way everything. but unfortunately that's not what happened. characters like Mel deserved better than disappearing halfway through the season, to reappear in the last two episodes :/ (to be like a deus ex machina) [and her relationship with ambessa!!! they could have shown of them so much more, its such a waste its crazy.] caitlyn that goes from being blinded by revenge and edged on by ambessa to commit heinous acts, to see Vi and fold immediately. zero development, zero satisfying redemption. and especially the dynamic between vi and jinx (her ending made me so mad, even tho I loved her final scene with Vander) 💔 deserved for sure more space, since they were the "main protagonists"
1 season more and this show is masterpiece! Its sad its so fricking expensive honestly maybe they could have a less consumimg animation for the other series so they can developed them better :(
No, I thought it was JUST the pacing at first too, its not. The writers had every intention of throwing away their female leads in favor of uplifting the men in the story and making them the sole focus. One of the writers said the prison smash was “vi reclaiming her prison trauma”.. hello? wtf? These characters wouldve likely been butchered with or without another season
I don't know the lore of League of Legends but I'vr heard that she is an enforcer in the game, who was from Zaun but betrayed them... so I guess they just aimed at fitting a triangle into a square to make her become that. 😒
I had issues watching season 2 and loving it as well. Don't get me wrong, best show ever and I love powder/jinx but vi just felt so passive the second season
GIRRRLL, this timing is INSANE, I was just watching you're other video where you praised the female writing in Season 1 and I was wondering if you could see through the hype of Season 2. Haven't watched the video yet but just the title just made me excited lmao (not excited cause you didn't like those aspects of Season 2, but happy to see how more people are slowly opening their eyes as to how much the sequel failed in, specially in regards to the sisters relationship which, was pretty much the heart of the first season. Keep up the good work!
@@sofiayoung9660 then why are you want people to open they eyes more?are butthurt that majority love this season and see nothing wrong with it?you just that desperate to be right?
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d Bruh, calm down :v I literally said that it's totally okay if you liked this season, you don't need to get defensive just knowing that there are people out there who (and trust me, we have our reasons). First off, I don't know if it's the mayority or minority who didn't like the sequel (which honestly, I had seen more and more people coming forward, so, take it with a grain of salt) but that's really irrelevant to the conversation. You can like a product, REGARDLESS if it's objectively good or bad, that has nothing good with your liking. Mainly my critique goes towards people (not you necessarily which honesly me sad, cause that makes me think, that media can throw whatever they product they want on their followers, and they are just gonna take it, no questions asked (and I cannot say this enough, it has NOTHING to do with your personal LIKING of the thing).
What’s funny is that you accuse me of being desperate, yet you get defensive that someone would DARE to critize a product that you like so much, and that’s part of the problem. The way that some fans have reacted when the rest of the community are just trying to share our thoughts into why we, objectively, really didn’t like how Season 2 turned out. Is not about ‘being desperate to be right’, that’s petty and dumb. It’s about people having a more objective and being CRITICAL about the media they consume. You don’t have to agree, nobody is putting a gun in your head to move a muscle. Now, If you can like Season 2 despite recognizing its very obvious flaws (and I’m still not forcing YOU at all) that’s a discussion that would turn productive. just stating my point. For me personally, this Season was a total letdown.
If you would like to hear my thoughts and we can agree on disagree, we can totally have a conversation have a conversation can agree on disagree on the many points that made this season (and for so many more) the worst possible outcome. Though judging from your attitude, I don't think you're not gonna be that open minded from here on now, lol.
I thought that the focius of the show would be primarily Jinx and Vi / sister bonds, because that is how season 1 set it up. I'm not a writer, so I couldn't tell you what is wrong with the writing, but I do know that season 2 was not what I wanted or expected. As an older sister, Jinx and Vi's relationship was everything to me and I was so excited to have a sister bond at the forefront of such a large piece of media. I absolutely felt like it was pushed to the side and I was so disappointed! I also was a really big caitvi shipper after season 1 but found myself not giving a damn anymore when they had their romantic scenes because I was too busy worrying about how the sister dynamic was going to play out. Specifically, I was so disconnected from Cait this season, and I was completely at a loss as to why Vi chose her over Jinx. After Jinx left Vi in the prison, I was so shocked when Vi immediately forgot"" about her to get with Cait?? I loved that you pointed out that we were missing a point of reflection and indecisiveness there, the theme of "choosing herself" was completely lost on me. I also hated it because Jinx said some VERY concerning things before she left, and I know that Jinx has hurt Vi, but as an older sister you would still go and stop her from killing herself. Idk, it was wild to me. 😭
yess im also older sister and i caitvi shipper but this ship this season was trash ,Cait hurt Vi too -dictator era ,Vi cared about zaun in s1 ,and cait hurt her home and her people,she likely killed many people cait in act 2 says -that she did COUNTLESS OPERATIONS and without Vi she likely didnt hold herself back ,i mean grayy hurt innocents based on musical montage,so she was way worse for sure during time skip ,cait was working with ambessa and casued war by leaving her side ,but ''JInx was a monster who needed to be seprated with Vi in end of s2'', xd JInx was just chilling woth isha in act 2 ,and she wanted to kill herself in act 3 because she believed she s irredimable (she was remorsful about her actions )and cait punched vi with A GUN ,vi was in prison for years and beaten by enforcers ,just to be beaten by her gf ENFORCER .Jinx and Vi broke cycle by forgiving each other and accepting themselves ,in ACT 2 .Even Vander and Silco are toghter in alternate world xd .Vi during pitfther era literally was destoyng herself cause of CAIT ,in scene she was shown to think mainly about Caitlyn(codopedency -hard on cait ),Vi learned to accept JInx and no nedding to protect her in act 2 ,in act 1 she learnt to let go of others by being ready to kill Jinx :)(i mean Jinx did awful shit and Vi was ready still be there for her but in s2 she suddenly wants to killl her xd ,lazy writing ,but still Jinx did bad stuff sho she diswoned her even though JInx is guilty of terrosim ,killing zaunties ,ekko's buddie ,trying to kill cait and ekko and her on bridge ,BUT SHE STILL ACCEPTED/LOVED JINX NOT HER ACTIONS ,but s2 comes and vi unconditional love goes brrrr),but still Vi shown to be able to lt go of JInx .Jinx should have stayed for good with Vi and heal with her and ekko ,forgivness and taking responsobility fo her bad actions,for example helping firelights of smth ,they accpted her anyway by act 3 ,thanks to Ekko ,Cait and Jinx are the same side of coin ,both hurt Vi and Vi forgave both ,Caitvi arent better /helthier that sisterhood between JInx and Vi is xd .i woukd have preffered sisters to go away BOTH from zaun/piltover togheter to same place ,since Cait barely had consquences for her cirmes and show burshed her actions over ,for example they gave maddie as traitor to make cait symphatic ,sure Cait fought in war ,but she caused so she had to ,for example not to be imrosined later :) cause she casued this by betraying ambessa ,sure she lost eye but she got Vi ehhhhhhhhhh,but JInx have no Vi and ekko now ehhhh ,s1 is superior by farrrrrrrrr
I truly believe each arc should have been 4 episodes because from the writers, they had to cut out so much for season 2 to fit the 3 episode marks, but we just lost so much character development from them doing. Also, sevika was supposed to have her own arc this season, but they cut it completely, and I'm offended by that
What was Sevika’s arc supposed to be? As someone who's always massive fan of her character (and was largely disappointed in her appearance in Season 2), this is something I'd really love to hear so I can get some closure with my feelings.
@DLxxx i don't think what her arc was going to be is out to the public. i just know that they cut out a lot of her scenes/development, which is why her arc is so disappointing and unfinished.
@@VictoriaCrissmanUgh.. Well at least I know there was something planned for her.. Though it just makes me frustrated as a long time fan of the character.
Well crap now I'm kinda upset because YOU ARENT WRONG- I liked the second season, I thought it was good, but I'll admit something was off. I think you definitely hit a few nails on the head with how they handled the battles. It should've felt like life or death vs a spectacle, and the nuances and things touched on season one should've carried, especially the bridge symbolism!!!
I ABSOLUTELY agree that ir was SOOOO unnecessary the multiverse time travel to the past thingy. It seems to me it was used as a writting resource to fix the mess. Honestly... like... no please. It could have been the story of Runaterra, piltover and Zhaun. Focus de second season on the main story and I think it would have turned out super, super cool.
you should be a screen tester because you explained the majority of my griped with the Vi and Jinx plotline in a much more eloquent way than I could've put it...
I read some comments online that said some writers of arcane season 1 were fired and if thats true, unfortunately you can tell. Season 2s writing is lacking in a couple different ways and even though its definitely not horrible its not great either, its almost as if the amazing writing of season 1 just vanished and now we have this just okay writing. Its frustrating to think about. Though I did enjoy season 2 and the ending made me cry, I hope the next spinoff show has as much passion and great writing as arcane season 1 did.
I got to say I do thing they failed on character development for the sisters. Idk I just wish the story itself was better this season. The fast pace pace didn’t allow enough focus on there relationship ugh if only s2 was as good as s1 ): omg thank you for the likes (:
The most irritating thing is how much of the fanbase completely ignored the obvious red flags and showed a complete lack of understanding for how TV shows like this are made. Season had around 6 years of development, and around 3 years into production, underwent major rewrites after initial screenings were poorly reviewed due to it being to plot centric instead of focusing on the characters. In other words, season 1 had all the time in the world to cook, had multiple humbling test audiences, and the freedom to rewrite it's story as much as it needed to in order to become the masterpiece that it is (arguably one of the greatest stories this generation). It didn't even start full blown animation until the back half of production. Season 2, by comparison, had a mere 3 years to be written and animated. Whole normally 3 years is a lot of time, it's obviously not enough to reach the level of polish of Season 1. And in the midst of Season 2's production, Riot decided to make it the new official League cannon. Which meant it had to support the weight of it's own story, and the larger universe (hence why Noxus and the Arcane overtook the entire conflict). S1 had the freedom to be an adaptation that could keep and disclude whatever it wanted. Also, S2 had the weight of fan expectations behind it, and unfortunately, the show makers buckled to this as well. They saw how well received the music was at the end of Act 1, 2, and 3, and decided that for S2, they were going to have a moment like that IN EVERY EPISODE. Completely destroying the impact of the music altogether (the most egregious example, to me, being how they turned Vi vs Warwick into a horribly underwhelming slide show in order to, presumably, "save time." And yet everyone kept saying the show was going to be "even better than season 1?" Huh??? There was also a shocking lack of flashbacks this season, and the two were got were so poorly implemented (I like Vander's, but it should have been longer, and focused on different things, like his actual falling out with Silco, instead of being a freaking music video).
@@DLxxx my god all you do in this comment section is to cry about a show you didint understand you probably got roasted in others spaces for you bad takes thats why you run for your safespace here so no one can critic you opinions
The only thing i disagree with is that Jinx WAS a villain. She was my favorite character, but she was a mass murderer that killed people for fun and made jokes while doing it. She found it entertaining, even funny, to kill people. She strapped a fake bomb to a guy giving her advice to make him think he would die purely because she thought it was funny. She painted "HAHAHA" on things she wanted her victims to see. Honestly, people compare her to Harely Quinn, but she was one bad day away from being the Joker. S2 toned her waaaaaaaay down.
When they said they had this story prepared for 2 seasons, I think that is simply a lie. I think the only one that had the story somewhat sketched in his head, was the showrunner Christian Linke. If you look at IMDB writing credits, other than the 2 showrunners, only Amanda Overton gets credit for "story by" for 4 episodes in season 2. Other than that, the rest of the writers of season 1 get credit in the "story by" only for season 1. I also think that season 1 would have looked much like season 2, if Riot wouldn't have intervened and forced Linke to hire the writers for season 1 (admitted in the Bridging the Gap documentary). So Christian Linke is simply not good enough as a writer to write a story at the level at which professionals did in season 1.
There are tons of problems with s2, but I just wanted to point out how dumb Maddie as a character was. She literally had no influence on the plot, if you remove her from the story it wouldn’t change anything. And then they reveal that she’s evil and kill her 2 seconds later??? I genuinely cannot think of a reason why the writers put her in the show, other than they just needed a 5th body for Caits riot squad.
I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO! Yeah, I stayed up to watch the last act of s2, and I was so angry. I was so mad they threw away major plot points, and left holes in the story. Plus, many things felt so unearned. Ugh.
Season 1 was beautiful and an eternal, timeless masterpiece, and everything I reanalyze about it makes season 2 even more disappointing. The themes were abandoned and the characters are underwritten for a nonsensical plot that doesn't make coherent or consistent sense, especially for what we were presented with in season 1.
On the topic of Jinx having influenced Isha, therefore causing her death: I think due to the fact Isha doesn't speak and has a lack of characterisation, people forget that she is a very young child. If a child around the age of 5 or 6 concludes she should attempt to sacrifice herself in a very real battle against a huge beast for the sake of the adults around her, then the adults have done something wrong here. A child shouldn't be influenced to do that or learn that, they should be protected from ever thinking that's something they should do or an option they have. The show depicts this as losing a comrade in battle, and not a literal young child committing suicide. If Isha was written as a realistic child it would be more plausible for her to be terrified, seeking protection, rather than having these complexities the show gets away with writing her to have because her lack of characterisation makes the audience forget how young she is. Sure she has grown up in zaun, a brutal upbringing I'm sure, though for the last lot of months (as a guess) she's been isolated from the world for the most part, hiding away with Jinx
It’s like, this could have been something. How Jinx just became Silco 2.0 and destroyed the person they cared about (very tragic) but it’s just all kind of surface level stuff. Tropey. I have always said this about Viktor and his plotline at the end of season one, so I’m obligated to point out that the writers have always had this problem, even if it didn’t show as much in season one. Disappointed but not surprised.
i think the whole problem with this show is very telling when you read the interviews and find out the main reason they wrote vi and jinx’s parents dying in the bridge by enforcers was to bring more drama into vi’s romance with caitlyn. everything appealing when it came to class divide and police brutality literally was done for drama, which is insanely disappointing
ohhh shut up. is this real? because that's extremely sad :/ they bamboozled us into believing they understood about class division and violence in the first season 😭 so they could have spicier drama i
this video is great. it almost completely explains why i found it so disappointing. also, the way they handle suicide is in SUCH poor taste. i can't really put it in words but the framing around Jinx sacrificing herself for Vi like an hour after she was actively committing suicide... it puts an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. fans' responses to it have absolutely not helped the issue as well. one of my few complaints of season 1 was it felt a bit flippant about characters being suicidal and attempting suicide.
yea i really hated that every character we saw attempt suicide in season one killed themself this season. Jayce and Viktor and Jinx, they all tried to directly kill themself, and then get the fucking.. ‘heroic justified suicide’ ending.
thank you!! I love the visuals and the music of S2 (also all the jayvik stuff lmao), but the story was such a let down... unfortunately common for netflix
I would have liked to see more of sevika and her development after silco's death. Being able to see how she understands Vander's actions, how she becomes the leader of Zaun and part of the council, seeing her be at peace with Vi, her perspective on the Noxus invasion of Zaun in search of Jinx, seeing her pain after the death of Jinx. . Maybe if Vi's fighting pit arc had been explored more, Sevika could have gone to talk to her at some point asking for help. Maybe see them for once fight together during the final battle instead of each other. At least some final conversation or something. Maybe after Ekko saves Jinx she tells Sevika that she has to be the leader that Zaun needs or something to understand how Sevika gets to have a seat on the council and how Zaun appears in the war at the end.
THANK YOU, vi was waayyyy too calm with jinx's bomb/powders death, we didnt get much besides her drinking in the street. the effects of the season 1 finale werent followed up all that well :/ She was never the character I fixated on, but i do agree that she was done dirty!!! They definitely needed at least another season, maybe two, in order to tell the story they wanted to tell
... I just realized that Ambessa never noticed that Mel got kidnapped by the Black Rose _because she was so tunnel-visioned on protecting Mel from the Black Rose with hextech._ If this was S1 Arcane I would have thought it was a clever deconstruction of the flaws in Ambessa's philosophy. In S2 tho, it looks more like the writers forgot that Ambessa should care about Mel because she's babysitting Caitlyn?
Ambessa's whole character was screwed up. She's supposed to love her family above all else. She sacrificed Kino to keep Mel safe! Yet she has no reaction when her daughter (and only remaing family) explicitly disowns her in the final battle? If her goal wasn't to lose Mel, then she failed. And yet I can't tell if she even cared at that point, lol.
@@bearfriend1 True, but they also have to tie things up with the existing lore and provide set ups for the future. Everything Riot does for last several years in terms of lore is doing a lot of set up and marketing material for their franchise, so they could tell more stories through TV shows, comics, etc This is all a build up to their MMO, everything in my mind points to that. Now they have to tighten up their timeline and have other Runeterra regions shown too before that. Arcane set up Noxus to be next on the line, and maybe a bit of Ionia.
yea, their desperation to make the lore the same instead of separate is *also* ruining league too. i mean, i cannot believe they got rid of basically all of league viktor’s story.
also just wanna say . that having a character with a history of being abused by cops. and then proceeding to have her be HIT by her love interest, WHO IS A COP -is just sososososoeo awful to me and distasteful
The worst part is that the scene would have been just as impactful if Cait DIDN'T do that. Like she didn't need to. They could have just had them argue, and then Cait could repeat Vi's "water and oil" statement and leave her
if arcane had 3 seasons it would’ve added so much necessary context and better developed the story, problem is that simply wasn’t possible. it’s not like they hire actors and film with cameras, this is HAND DRAWN, ANIMATED film. fortiche claims one second of film could take a day for an animator to create. it’s for this exact reason i struggle to nitpick about the story, because yes! so many characters needed more time, but the overall direction of s2 made sense for me. at the beginning of s1 we see the foreshadowed fate of piltover, and at the end of s1 we see the upcoming involvement of noxus, these two events imo highlight how the show is bigger than what we might expect. i think the fact that s2 gets messy, out of hand, and is so overwhelming makes sense considering everything that has happened and is happening is chaotic and out of hand. people are losing the plot, losing their morals, losing all of themselves and that is the point of arcane. arcane from day 1 has been set out to depict a tragedy. name one happy scene… QUICK. we are mere witnesses to the tragic events that unfold infront of us. yet DESPITE THIS, imo most of the main characters stories were concluded either accurately to their LoL counterpart, or in consideration to the character and its role in the show: -> jayce and viktor got lost in the sauce after creating and abusing hextech (both in their own ways), after creating something so destructive and dangerous, they decide to destroy it together. very poetic doomed scientists ending. -> jinx causes so much harm to zaun and piltover, to a point where she becomes unredeemable. the only way for her to grow is to leave, so she does! jinx was a result of her environment and she has to ability to start a new life for herself which is deserved considering she had a lot of growth and is no longer the extreme anarchist she was in s1. -> vi ends up with caitlyn, in piltover and will most likely work with her to protect both piltover and zaun. she is a fighter and seeks justice and vi can start doing some good while being with someone who fundamentally understands her and mirrors her ethics, beliefs and morals. caitlyn steps down from the council and gives her seat up to sevika to probably do more investigative work with vi. -> ekko doesn’t really get an ending, despite being the only reason their universe was saved, this is just straight up tragic, but he is alive and has the willpower to continue growing his community and protecting others. -> mel‘s ending is just the beginning of her new role i think all of these characters are important so to criticize the show in ‘sidelining the main plot’ of vi and jinx and to focus on other characters is kind of strange because riot NEEDED to include as many plot lines for as many characters as possible, and they did their best with what they were working with (time/resources/budget)
I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time, if all of these conclusions aren't done well, what's the point? These things still could've been achieved, but if the show focused more on the sisters, we would've gotten well rounded arcs rather than the characters making abrupt and confusing choices. At the core, this show was ALWAYS about Jinx and Vi. To stray from its core, the show had nothing as a foundation, which is why all the plotlines got so messy.
@dandelions_are_coolWell said. You can't remove the backbone of a narrative this dense, then make it carry even more burdens (like unnecessary plotlines), and expect it not crumble under it's own weight.
i partly disagree with your take. you have some points, the thing is the execution isn't that great. I can see how what you said makes some sense, but the lack of development to get there makes their choices jarring, not in the cool, planned way you imply. i think the writers fumbled the story a bit (i get the money and time restraints), possibly because they had to wrap everything up in just 9 episodes. but the inclusion of new, unnecesary characters and the focus on storylines that don't connect to our main one satisfyingly (the black rose) take away from the time we could have spent developing characters in order for their ending to make sense. idk and did they have to sideline the sister's plot that hard? DID they have to sideline Vi THAT hard so that what we do get of her s2 emo arc is cramped in a music video, and it has no longlasting impact? i don't think a half assed setup for future media was needed in detriment to this particular story :/
@dandelions_are_cool i do agree that vi and jinx’s story was rushed, and they forgave too easily at times. but idk how else they would’ve gone about it. like genuinely im curious to know how you think their story should’ve gone
3:58 Id like to point out here, that Jinx DOESN’T say “Jinx is dead” simply because she met Isha. Jinx does and says this, because she planned for her own story to end at the finale of ep 3. We know this because she says things like “this isn’t how it’s supposed to go” when Sevika manages to flick the switch and release the gray. What Jinx originally wanted was for her to die a hero, releasing the gray into Piltover as a contribution to the revolution, as a final thanks to Silco before she died. The reason she wanted to die doing it is simply because she doesn’t have anything left to fight for, the one pushing for revolution and a purpose for Jinx (Silco) is gone now and her sister (Vi) has turned against her. However, Isha ended up saving her and Jinx found herself still alive afterward. Her reaction? She decided to ignore her survival and acted like she did die (kinda) by saying “Jinx is dead” and living the rest of her life (well she knew it wouldn’t last but that lead into the whole other act) enjoying her time with the one person who felt her life was still worth saving even when Jinx felt it wasn’t, Isha. Now I know this is just one problem and there’s a lot more in the rest of the video, but I would like to say that a rushed story doesn’t ruin the actual story. It ruins one’s perception on the story. Now, it’s definitely certain that season 2 was greatly rushed, but that doesn’t mean it was ruined. Imagine a rushed show like watching a video on 2x speed, everything is still there, you just don’t catch it all. That doesn’t make it the audiences fault, far from it. It just means that not everything will make complete sense while watching the show (which really sucks and is why I also like S1 way more). But when someone (this is aimed at people in the comments I don’t know what the video fully says) to say it’s now terrible and poorly written and completely ruined the whole show? It’s because they didn’t slow it down and truly take in everything the story has. Again, not saying it’s the audiences fault, I’m just saying there’s still beauty in there that wouldn’t be caught at first glance. Thank you so much for taking the time to read all that, I truly just felt the need to defend one of my favorite shows.
I hate the "Jinx is dead" idea entirely. The overarching arc of season 1 was if she was Powder or Jynx, with the ending having her choose Jynx! Silco's final words being the encouragement to be Jynx. Then in S2 she's not sure who she is, like that wasn't what s1 was about!
@SavageSam42 And then they don't do anything with it. She does become a symbol, has the whole scene with the prison break. IMO season 2 should have had more of dictator Caitlyn versus liberator Jynx. Instead they dropped fascist Caitlyn and anything to do with Zaun liberation pretty fast and Jynx doesn't do very much or act very Jynx-like. Her schizophrenia pretty much disappeared, she was predictable, and they have her a kid to take care of just to kill off and never mention again
It’s so hard to criticise a show like Arcane because the animation is so good. They were hung up on fan service and inserting unnecessary plot lines like the great evolution and the black rose. Yes, it provided great opportunity for animation but the heart of this show was always the two sisters. They should’ve focused on their development and writing. I see this pattern on a lot of big franchises (like Marvel and GOT). I just wasn’t expecting to see it in Arcane since it’s only two seasons and season one was highly praised for its writing, with same level as the praise for its animation.
i can't even look at Vi or i'll cry ☹what did you think of S2?
(ps I share my positivity for S2 at the end. i still love Arcane. and i am totally down for kind-hearted disagreement!)
It was definitely a downgrade to season 1. It has its good moments and I applaud everyone who enjoys it and doesn't criticize it whatsoever. I envy them, actually. It was beyond a disappointment for me personally and my perception of arcane as a whole has been changed entirely- from what the writers have been saying post S2, to the assassination of characters and arcs/plotlines and the absolute horrid shift in the fandom. Season 2 has its good moments absolutely, but for me personally the negatives are way too glaring for me to look past. It's very unfortunate because I absolutely loved this show and the characters. I don't think I'll ever be this affected by something fictional on this level again.
@@lemonwater2857 Actually, same. Even before season 2 was out, I was worried as heck that the character driven story would suffer because of how monumental Arcane had gotten meaning that they were very likely planning to go even bigger, potentially turning the whole thing into more of a spectacle similar to Avengers Endgame.
So, when I finally watched it, it felt like I subconsciously suppressed my disappointment to the point that it wasn't registering to me why I was so unaffected by major moments.
Vi's stint with the enforcers and her team meant nothing to me, her fight with Jinx meant nothing to me, Caitlyn taking over, Mel's faux brother, the Zaunite near rebellion, and worst of all, that whole "war" at the end meant nothing to me.
I'm pretty sure now that the reason why I was so unaffected is because it feels as though this season's writers put such little time on the characters and just wanted to get the plot moving forward and ending it, almost like they had other projects to prepare for.
@boxingelfis1499 exactly. So many people are obsessed with this "show don't tell" thing that it appears they are forgetting what makes writing amazing in the first place.
We barely got to see characters and their interactions, their actions and process to their motivations. We saw it all on a surface level, but it was never explored. The personal dialogues between characters, them having moments for themselves kind of just... disappeared? Everyone wasn't really in the moment, they were all basically reacting to something as the plot went on. Season 2 is missing a lot of the things that made us care about the characters and their actions in the first place. But at least we have those video montages, right? Again, not terrible and it's a lot more complicated than this but THIS is a big reason on why I was disappointed.
@@lemonwater2857 Indeed, there were some really awesome moments and my goodness does the soundtrack slap, but for the most part the heart of the show or the humanity feels missing for the most part.
I enjoyed season two even though the pacing was too fast. Mel’s storyline was the weakest.
The way Isha was never mentioned after her death is devastating to me. Everything was so rushed this season.
This is actually a common misconception, first it kind of ignores the way Jinx was for the entire 8th episode (I’m not disagreeing it was rushed by the way). Anyways, why do you think she went back to her “I’m a Jinx” mindset after the development she went through in episode 6. “And the break the cycle of killing” well WHO was recently killed? That Jinx believes was her fault? And not only that, in episode 9 when Jinx comes in on her airship, you can see patterns that resemble Isha’s bunny ears (at the ballon part), Isha’s hat (like right above where Jinx was standing I think). And I think you can see a doll of Isha that Jinx has with her. And if you can see it there, it’s with her in the art book, and official merchandise of that outfit. If you’re looking for a verbal mention, Jinx mentioned Isha in league “Isha would’ve loved this place” when Jinx was staying at the firelight hideout. So I hope this make you feel better, that Isha WAS NOT completely forgotten.
@@rainydaze2889that's the ONLY reference we have. Plus, telling a suicidal person they're better off dead is tone deaf. Isha didn't even NEED to die, she was a plot device for us to feel bad for Jinx.
@@rainydaze2889 Yup, thanks. I already noticed these, i get your point. I just thought they messed up the pacing this season in general, they did it better in season one. S2 is still great but i wished we could see the full version and potential of it, without too many scenes getting cut yk. Have a nice day!
@misashanoo4322 Both Isha and Warwick are such painfully obvious plot devices it comes across as just amateur writing, especially compared to the incredibly nuanced writing of season 1
She was mentioned in a mini game in the league client called "Jinx fixes everything". It takes place at the Firelight's tree where Jinx fixes stuff to prepare for battle. She mentions that Isha would have loved this place and that she misses her. She says it in an almost sad and happy way...?
Anyways, I think that is stupid because I know Riot sooooo badly want people to play the game but legit maybe 50% of the people that watched already plays or will start play the game AT MOST. + the event is over and mini game is gone now
Not so Fun fact- the writers litteraly said they lost interest in Vi this season. Which breaks my heart. She was such a good character in season one, and that pretty much explains why her character was thrown away.
I'm not a writer but I don't understand how you can just lose interest in one of your main characters... the more logical explanation I have is that Vi was mainly written by one of the writers who left the team after season 1.
@ burnout is most likely the answer. And yeah, it probably was one of the writers from the first season.
Not only in Vi, but mel too. Amanda hates mel and that's make me sad, Mel and Vi are like orange, When you squeeze them, a lot of juice comes out. That's how I see Mel and Vi, there were so many things they could have done with these characters and they totally wasted them.
@@Fransubsss yesss!! How they delt with my girl Mel felt like they just wanted to use her to tease their new series.
@@Bloomingz Same, I hope that when Mel comes out as champion in the game, they can bring out all the potential she has.
28:57 Them saying, "Season 2 is going to be more Vi focused," Then pulling this crap and then saying, "We thought there were more interesting characters to focus on" Is actually criminal, try and change my mind
i was so sad because vi is my favorite character, and she is literally the main character. you can't just change the entire dynamic of a series because you're bored. come up with new ideas for vi instead of sidelining her. show more of vi and caitlyn, more of vi and jinx, more of the three of them.
I didn't even realize they explicitly said they'd focus more on Vi.. It makes me _so much more_ furious with how the season came out.
That just pisses me off so bad cause if she’s ‘boring’ then idk write her not to be?? Like they have writers who could’ve easily not made her to be like that.
@@jembellOne of the central mysteries of Arcane, from it's inception, was how a kid who hated Enforcers and lost her parents to them, believably agreed to join them and fight against her own home. What an unbelievably interesting question and conflict to create, and then never actually tackle. We are, bafflingly, locked comepletely out of Vi's head as she hunts down her sister (to _kill_ her) and uses chemical warfare on the streets of the undercity, despite *being a victim of police brutality herself,* and being locked in prison for 7 years.
@@mackingcheese Absolutely, I feel they also didn't have much of cait and vi after act 1 which is why her decisions related to cait just don't make much sense, and is why I consider the jaill scene necessary. Because there aren't any other scene where they forgive each other, and kind of explains it.
For me, one of the biggest flaws of s2 is that they forgot both cities were also supposed to be characters in a sense. In s1, every action the characters made, it would impact others (and the cities), but in s2, so many actions seemed to not have this effect or be brushed off. The enforcer squad literally commiting war crimes when they GASSED THE UNDERCITY and this never being adressed again is the biggest example 😭
literally how is cait not in jail for that..?
@@oi2715amd she kept her shot eye, she can pium pium whenever she wants
@Sofiaee the undercity already has poor air quality bcuz of the many factories, Cait's family made a ventilation system to try making the air there better quality (it works for a certain degree)
Doesn't deter the fact that Cait's squad deliberately used it on their little mission, probably affecting common people as well. And even if it didn't affect commoners, using that is still a horrible abuse of power, even for the standards of what we've seen so far from Enforcers
Yes I feel like the core plot was the sisters and the cities and that’s what made the supporting characters and plots work so well! I think Jayce and Viktor’s plot still could have worked w this even if they did more w the zaun Jesus commune and piltover’s reaction.
The point of that is to emphasize class war. Cait is constantly saying to Jinx "the crimes you commited can't go unpunished", while the enforcers and Piltover in general are getting away with doing fucked up shit. Even look at Jacye and how he committed a crime to create hex core but became a council member because he was backed by Kiramman wealth. But jynx doing the same thing is constantly punished for creating things with the hex core.
It's purposeful that they "don't" say it because they don't have to. That is what happens in class war. The more money you have, the more you get away with.
I don’t think the Mel mage arc should have been in season 2. It seems like they are going to have a spinoff with the rose whatever it’s called, So I think they should have just left it for that. It felt really strange to me that she had this whole other story happening that didn’t fit in to everyone else’s. Also I love the rant about Vi’s outfit. That’s so relatable I always get so mad when they mess with a good outfit.
I absolutely loved Mel in s1, one of my favourite characters. In a show with tech savy smart people she's people smart, understanding how people tick with misses because she's still young and a human at that point, interesting family dynamics, intriguing past and philosophy. THEN THEY GIVE HER 2 MINUTES OF MAGIC TIME after which she overtakes her mothers place and that’s it???????
They should have kept her politicking in S2, then left the BR plot for the beginning of S3. That would be a seamless take into Noxus.
LMAOO I LOVE HOW U DONT EVEN KNOW THE WHOLE NAME OF THE (BLACK) ROSE. THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES
@@chaipanzu LMAO I LOVE HOW PEOPLE FORGOT THAT NOXUS IS A TRADING PARTNER TO PITLVOER AND WOULD NOT ALLOW AMBESSA, A ROGUE GENERAL, TO MESS THINGS UP WITH THEIR TRADING PARTNER LMAOOOOOOOOOO
@@blacktigerpaw1 PREACH LOUDAAAA🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️‼️
Personally, I think they also failed Caitlyn. I've seen a lot of Cait hate on tiktok, and I think it's justified. As someone who has lost their mother at 16, her rage wasn't explored enough, which makes her unrelatable. Jinx trauma is explored really well in season 1, which makes the viewer understand her actions. Cait's ignorance towards Vi's feelings about Jinx after she killed her mother came of as a bad personality trait and as her not having empathy. If they took the time to explore what was going on in Cait's mind, what it meant to lose the person she has spent her entire life with and how the grief created an intense tunnel vision of rage, more people would've understood her and her actions, even her mistakes. They were able to make us understand Jinx killing her father figure, but couldn't make us relate to Caitlyns rage?
Sorry for your loss. This is an interesting take.
i think this is a really poignant point! obviously s2 very intensely parallels how caitlyn is becoming jinx in a way as her obsession makes her do terrible things, but her most memorable moments for me this season is gassing people, being a full on fascist dictator, and a somewhat unsatisfying end to ambessa (caitlyn doesnt even kill her even though her entire arc this season is influenced by ambessa!) jinx does some awful shit in season 1, but i remember they gave her solo scenes to really dig into her mindset, motivations, and a clear picture of how mentally unwell she is. in this season, caitlyn gets nothing of the sort! theres always another person with her who's influencing her decisions in some way, and it really doesn't leave a lot of space for the viewer to show sympathy for caitlyn like they did for jinx. so instead of getting to see both her incredibly violent and incredibly soft moments, all we see is caitlyn growling about how she thinks zaunites are animals, how she completely disregards vi's feelings about becoming the institution that killed her parents, and how inconsistent she is about vi! there should be SOME level of reconciliation for caitlyn and vi, but after they tussle for five seconds at the commune its like their conflict never even happened! caitlyn instantly trusts vi's plan when she says "youre not going to like this" after their last interaction she tells vi that her monstrous sister's blood is in her veins. theres no build up or sympathy with caitlyn, so looking back at season 1 theyre just irreconcilably different to me. its like looking at two different people, with nothing to bridge the gap between them.
I can feel for you, makes me hate Season 2 even more because so many there are themes and ideas they never properly explored. Cate, Vi and Jinx could have been such a complex trio, having so much behind them. Yet this Season they feel simply like writers' toys that are bent the way writers want them to in order to get everything to MCU finale.
I wish we could've had a deeper dive into Cate mind and everything that comes with it. Season 1 had amazing writing in regards of psychology of characters. Season 2 sadly is a major disappointment in this regard
She goes from oh no nobody takes me seriously to having a military coronation, to giving all her to Ambessa in the next, to betraying in the next one
The character was a joke lol
I feel the same way about Cait. I feel like in season 1 she and Jayce were stand ins for the more privileged members of the audience. As much as we’d like to be more like Jinx or Vi, we haven’t faced the level of oppression they do. At best we are well-meaning and naive but , like Jayce and Cait, still willing to acknowledge our privilege and unpack our biases to work towards collective liberation. Maybe some of us are closer to season 1 Viktor, coming from an oppressed background and being thrust into more privileged society. Point is, I loved how season 1 unambiguously supported Zaun being free from Piltover’s oppression without making the topsider characters into mustache twirling villains or apathetic to Zaun’s struggles. Now it feels like Cait has become a full on “Piltie goon” without exploring her twisted mindset the way they did for Jinx.
I also understand that people sympathize with Jinx more because she’s a victim of oppression while Cait is definetly a perpetrator of it. Even though Jinx and Silco’s political intentions were never exactly pure, it’s much more easy to root for an underdog type of character
Arcane season 2 answers the age old conflict of "show vs tell" by choosing a third option, "imagine".
The audience has to look at all the music videos and imagine a coherent story.
Lmaooo not "imagine". But you're not wrong, it felt like I had to fill in the blanks on so many things. I like imagining and coming up with little headcannons to explain things sometimes but damn can yall please just show me lol.
Lmaoooo I gotta laugh or else I’ll cry
YESS- the audience shouldn't have to tell the stories THEMSELVES- DOESN'T THAT GO AGAINST THE POINT OF TELLING A STORY??
This actually describes my experience with the show perfectly, even with the later episodes in S1 already. Did you make this phrasing up? Can I quote you on this? :)
This actually perfectly expresses how art and media have been separated. You are use to media spoon feeding everything, while not having been taught how to read or understand art. Arcane is art. Your supposed to listen to the music, see the colours, backgrounds, characters and theme then read the meaning from that.
Can't lie. You put into words very much how I feel sbout this season involving the sisters plot. But I also had problems with Viktor and Jayce's plot too, it feels like the show was trying to tell two wildly different stories at once without committing to either. And the ending attempt to merge both just comes off as haphazardly put together for me.
But also, a bit of a more petty nitpick, the amount of scenes turned into basically glorified music videos really got on my nerves. Its like every ten or so minutes each episode theres ANOTHER and ANOTHER.
Yeah it got annoying real quick. We're here for story, not old MTV.
I was initially fine with the music videos if they meant the time saved by them was going to be used in telling the rest of the story, but then we still got a neckbreaking pace, a lot of wasted time and a rushed ending. And now after rewatching the season, the videos feel even more annoying and even cringy, just awful, unnecessary stuff
i agree, the mvs got on my nerves. they were visually interesting but at the same time hard to follow-- they're an insufficient replacement for storytelling
They did their best with the duration they have. But the duration itself shouldn't have been that short.
season 1 did the “music videos” perfectly, season did just did wayyy too much
To add to this, they also kinda just forgot that Jinx has some form of psychosis (probably schizophrenia), randomly remembered it halfway through in one scene, and then never addressed it again. As someone with that disorder, I was looking forward to seeing more of that aspect of her and it doesn't just magically disappear and reappear like that, at least not from what I know.
She shows symptoms of borderline personality disorder
It's not about the writers forgetting or remembering she has psychosis.
I think Jinx has hallucinations when her trauma is triggered or she is having a mental breakdown.
I am not an expert so I don't know but that's just my observation in general about her character.
@RsaRsa-d7bExcept even when her trauma is triggered, she doesn't hallucinate to nearly the extent of season 1.
Also, in Season 1, she said voices were "Always with her" and she's shown to hallucinate during normal/mundane conversation.
Some people said/ commented somewhere that she still had psychosis but it was simply not shown as vividly (or not at all) compared to season 1. Kinda works with the whole thing of the viewers having to fill in blanks and imagine stuff happening instead of them showing us in the show. The way Jinx' psychosis was depicted in S1 was one of my very favorite things of the show, so them having discarded that was a major bummer to me.
What really pisses me off is Vi's and Cait's relationship. I was so happy to see lesbian rep, but I didn't expect one of them to be incredible apathetic, selfish and unfair towards their partner. How Cait treated Vi really makes me hate her.
Especially because I really loved them in season one. I get grief can make you do crazy things, but that certainly doesn't mean you can't even apologize for hitting her with your gun and leaving her just because she didn't want you to KILL A CHILD.
I could NOT feel happy for them by the end.
Also, the opressor x opressed thing really makes me uncomf. Cait has way too much power over Vi.
one of my favourite scenes of vi is her "too risky" parkour scene in season one, leaving caitlyn behind and its just a minute of her running and you realise its her coming to herself and remembering old paths she used to take and breathing in the feeling of being home. It showed us that vi was free and independent for the first time and happy about it. So i cant tell you how much it pains me that they portrayed vi as someone who is overly dependent on cait so much so she'll return to a prison-like cycle where she engages in pitfighting and wont stop until someone (in this case, jinx who drags her out) saves her. She ends up in piltover with caitlyn at the end of the season but during that time we havent seen vi grow or learn self-worth and even further independency, the will to live life for herself, to choose herself (which supposedly is the arc by choosing cait but what is to stop her from returning to that pit if they break up?).
@@nuxjoe You seem to only grasp her character design on a superficial level.
Vi's core character motivator is that she NEEDS to protect those she loves. It's her only driving force in life.
When she lost Powder in the S1 finale, she still had Cait. Then when she lost Cait and Jinx had escaped, Vi truly had nothing left.
That's what the whole "Molotov Cocktail" song is about. She hit rock bottom and had nothing left to live for.
I do understand why you might misinterpret as S2 really was rushed, but most of the information is retained, just compressed and requires comprehension.
That's what the S2 finale is about. Ekko breaks Jinx's cycle by proving to her she has the ability to do good.
In the final moment when Vi froze after seeing Warwick once again dying in front of her, Jinx realized that Vi was also stuck in a cycle of her own.
With Jinx around, Vi would never be able to move on with her life. This is why Jinx faked her death.
@@00000005547 I understand the story beats. I am pointing out that at that moment in time these things could be seen to be true: she was independent for the first time (yes, she had this pillar of "Powder" in her head that she has relied on to survive in Prison), she wasnt tied to anything except that promise that was bestowed upon her to protect Powder, and we can recognise she feels some love for Zaun (or atleast some attachment to it). As this video mentions, by the end of S1 she loses Powder, her defining purpose and what she has lived for and allowed her to cope during those years, so immediately off the bat S2 feels mischaracterised for the lack of reaction or sense of psychological derailing in Vi because im not convinced that Cait could fill that hole that Powder filled for all her life, especially considering Vi and Cait had that "Oil and water" conversation only moments before, disingenuous as it was or not. When it comes to Vis arc, it is not something I interpret or think is rushed, I actually know it is rushed (the writers, CL in particular, speak that they were "more interested" in other characters) and even further borderline ignored, which is easy to see when you try to gain insight into Vis conflict being an enforcer (that is HUGE, the first shot of Vi is literally her having this aggression towards enforcers and piltover in general, so the road cannot be that easy because she heard Maddie say Cait talked about her in good conscience) as well as her experience as an enforcer and how she tackles with her identity which she has clearly lost. She is no longer a zaunite or someone in Piltover, just in Limbo on a downward spiral but all we get to sum up those feelings is 3 minutes worth of a MV montage. There is actually more characterisation present for vi and her loss of identity as a zaunite Ingame than you can hear in Arcane. And this downward spiral she can quickly snap out of because Jinx tells her about Vander, and it is like this manic episode has not occurred at all as it does not bleed throughout the season, despite a mere cosmetic change (that cait washes off of her literally in act 3). But, I am diverging onto what I think was horrible about Vis arc, much as you have when I clearly just pointed out my grief with her dependency on Cait. Her being dependent on Cait and needing someone to lean on is not Vi having broken the cycle or much less her being able to choose, the mere fact that Jinx has to be the one to break Vis cycle speaks for itself. And again, I still haven't seen any growth that can indicate Vi will not turn back into this prison-like cycle of pitfighting and violence. And also on your last line there "with jinx around, vi would never be able to move on with her life" I find ridiculous as a narrative because they were at peace with eachother at act 2 (I find the grounds being Vander personally superficial and lazy all the same but the point still stands). I dont see any reason as to why Vi and Jinx cannot be sisters, since what brought them apart were external factors rather than internal. Having your family ripped away from you so you can "Learn", is depressing as hell and from Vis perspective that in no way can help her heal given she has this guilt complex thats been haunting her since season one. She watched her little sister fall from her grasp, how does that not psychologically damage you? If Vi and Jinx left eachother on their own terms, if they felt they had to separate in order to grow that had to be mutually felt or understood otherwise (and as it stands) it is completely unsatisfying. But hey, if youre happy with Vis arc i feel so good for you, but me personally I hate it. And im not looking to be convinced otherwise Ive spent too much time in comment sections albeit twitter or youtube going through these same arguments.
@@nuxjoecan you drop you’re Twitter or something? What you said is very well thought out and it helped me wrinkle out some of the reason I felt irked and unfulfilled with S2. I just want to be able to read more of your thoughts if that’s okay with you!
I love Cait and Vi, but I really wish Cait at least verbally apologized to Vi, and it feels like the show didn't really acknowledge just how badly Cait treated her in that scene where they split up. I feel like Vi forgave her too easily for what Cait did. I mean, after all Vi has been through because of enforcers and her begging Cait not to change, just for Cait to hit her VERY HARD with her gun and then tell Vi she was "no different from the rest of them." That was just way too far for me. I get Vi cost Cait her chance at killing Jinx and avenging her mom, but there was an innocent kid who was in the middle of the crossfire. But it's the way she immediately turned on Vi after, especially with all Vi did for her to help her.
i still like s2, but they absolutely forgot what the story was originally about. viktor is my favorite character, and i think his story is very interesting, but jinx and vi’s relationship did not deserve to get completely discarded just to get a grand fight scene that ultimately did not interest me whatsoever.
i love your points on how all the character growth happens off screen, because that is exactly what i was struggling to put into words when thinking about season 2. everything is season 1 has a very clear reason for happening - every decision and emotion you can very easily tie to the character and what happens to them. but season 2 just doesn’t have that?? it left me feeling very odd after watching, and i’m glad you talked about it.
i’m not going to go into mel in detail bc her arc lowkey pisses me off (i loved the fact that her main strength was the social game! she is not a fighter!!) but this season had so much potential and so much of it was squandered. it just. agh it annoys me so much. thank you for making this video and saying it all better than i ever could.
I still love the second season but they really should've focused more on jinx and vi
i fear that sidelining main characters has become a common occurrence in newer media. i really wish they would've focused more on vi, jinx and cait.
Why?
@@michaelh13 Because their story was literally the heart and backbone of the entire narrative, next to the conflict between the cities. And BOTH were overshadowed by the poorly executed and overblown Viktor and Noxus plot lines that consumed the seasons entire last Act.
There should have been a s3, because there is so much story to tell. S2 was too crammed, less space for characterfocus. Still think its one of the best series of the last few years.
@@DLxxx You missed the point of the show. There IS no main character, except the world itself; Vi and Jinx are just the representatives of the Zaun experience, and the Noxus plotline introduces us to a bigger picture of life outside Piltover. You could remove Jinx and Vi from the show and a lot of the beats of the narrative stay the same, and the alternative universe demonstrates that world is actually better WITHOUT Vi.
It was pretty disappointing that it felt like in the last episodes that Vi and Jinx became such an afterthought with a hasty conclusion. Especially when their conflict was the centerpiece of the whole series! It soured such an amazing show. I can only hope they do something to make up for it in continuations.
You might enjoy "Word of Honor," then. It has a similar concept to "Arcane." It's subject to Chinese censorship laws, so one thing you should take note of is that "cut-sleeves" is a Chinese term for gay.
@@ThePrincessCH Interesting! Does "cut-sleeves" refer to t-shirts' sleeves being cut so they're like tank tops showing your arms? Would love to know more of Chinese often implicit ways of coding and signaling people being gay/ queer, so if you can share more or know of a resource that does - that'd be amazing!
@@misoume9859 It's from an old story set in a time when people in China wore baggy sleeves. An emperor wakes up to find his male lover sleeping on his sleeve. To not disturb him, he cuts off his sleeve. I think the story is called "Huang Jiulang."
@@misoume9859The term is from a story about an emperor who wakes up to find his male lover sleeping on his sleeve. Instead of disturbing him, the emperor cuts his sleeve.
@@misoume9859 It's a reference to a story. I'd give you more details, but my comments keep getting removed.
My biggest problem with Mel's empath mage plotline is that it feels like it kind of discredits her agency. like in season 1, we see her time and time again demonstrating her abilities as an incredibly skilled tactician. then towards the end of season 2 we get an exposition dump about how actually her magical powers from her bloodline allow her to sense others' inner selves- I don't like this. it feels like they're trying to say that her magic powers are why she's a good tactician and why she has such high emotional intelligence. is she so good at building political partnerships and making tactical risks because of her dedication and practiced skills? nah its because of her magic bloodline.
Nah this video is so real. As a Viktor fan, I find it pretty ironic how the 2nd season perfectly embodies one of his quotes from the 1st season.
“In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.” Arcane had a perfect story in the character driven class conflict between Zaun and Piltover, but the writers & producers threw it aside for the otherworldly Viktor plotline, which I have many MANY gripes with, because if the magic plotline was going to have such a huge impact in the story, very little was explained about just how the arcane is meant to function. (Heimerdinger was literally the prime character for this, but he went completely underutilized past season one and it hurts my soul-)
It felt like the show itself, just like Viktor as you said, lost its humanity and lost itself in turn, completely abandoned the characters that were essentially the core of Arcane’s storytelling, in the pursuit of cinematic grandeur. We didn’t need multiverses & alternate timelines, we just needed a grounded narrative. It really saddens me because Arcane was SO CLOSE. In a vacuum, a lot of the major scenes in season 2 were breathtaking, but when the walls are lifted, it simply shatters. The pieces were there, ready to be put together, but they kept creating new ones, leaving the puzzle unfinished altogether.
I love Arcane, I’ve never watched something so visceral before. Which is why it’s truly a shame it ended up being squandered. ;-;
Totally agree. I only hope some of their decisions get retextualized in future seasons. I didn't think I wanted a lot of carry over between 2-season-arcs, but if they don't crtl alt delete some of the charachter stuff from this season, I'll be bummed.
Yeah season 2 you can tell they had alot of the wants of the plot story boarded and they knew how they wanted to get there... But when it came to actually making those scenes they just did not have time to actually do it.
I think it's funny they repeatedly insist that it was always intended to be 2 seasons because it seems like not everyone on the team got that memo.
There just was not enough time to do everything they were trying to do.
I think the hextech plot line can actually be really fuckin good, but it's a whole other story line. 9 eps wasn't enough because they're trying to make 2 stories:
- a story of class issues seen through the ruptured relationship between 2 sisters
-a cosmic story of the cost of ambition and the price of invention seen through the bond of 2 inventors.
Both could be good stories it's just "2" different stories
What could've been
I just dont think this is true, we dont even SEE Viktor till Episode 6 in terms of this "otherworldy plotline" and then really only in Ep8-9 is it explored in a meaningful sense. It still has ties in with where we all knew Viktor was going. It ties in with his relationship to Jayce, hextech and magic. It ties in with Ambessa and the war between the cities. So I just dont see it as season ruining as all of you do. Like you see this finale of a battle against Viktor and assume the rest of the season just dropped everything? When? All the themes are there, just elevated.
Isha was such an obvious plot device lol, I found it hard to become attached and felt nothing when she died. Every single character got done so dirty this season and the writing quality declined. We needed more episodes :/
The thing is we didn't need more episodes. The setup of S1 could have easily been wrapped up in 9 eps. It's all the random plot points they decided to introduce in S2 that themselves eventually don't go anywhere. The underground power struggle, the characters introduced in ep1, Noxian raid, Black Rose, the MULTIVERSE...all don't even get a proper ending.
(Also Isha was....fine. There are like 10 things I would want to change before the whole Jinx Isha relationship.)
I kept hoping there'd be a surprise Adult Isha Returned From Being in an Alt Hex Dimension reveal in Act 3 because I refused to accept that the writers would unironically use her as nothing but a plot/"character" device LMAO
You might enjoy "Word of Honor," then. It has a similar concept to "Arcane." It's a Chinese made show, so it's subject to their censorship laws. So, one thing you should take note of is that "cut-sleeves" is a Chinese term for gay.
i felt VERY devastated, and i still cry watching her death scene but i realize the only reason i feel that way isn't because i actually felt that attached to her character, it was because of how JINX was attached to her. her reaction is what makes it so sad but without her i don't think i would have felt that strongly. yeah maybe that's how most death scenes are supposed to go but it could have been a much more impactful scene if i actually cared about isha more than just what jinx thought of her
makes sense why i barely cried when she died 😭😭 lowk thought there was something wrong with me when i saw how everyone else reacted, but its that lack of attachment, there was nothing to get attached to
46:28 My problem with Vi choosing herself in the prison scene is that she doesn't reach out first. Cait is the one who reveals that she sent the guards away to free Jinx. So, Cait makes the first move, signals to Vi that she chose Vi, and Vi then just reacts.
I never really thought of it like that.
wdym she doesnt reach out, caitlyn is literally telling her that she let her do this so of course if she wants to go after her sister she would understand, it's vi who takes her by surprise going for the kiss and staying with her
@@sarah1250Her body language, expression, and flirty line communicate otherwise. It's confusing what she actually wants from Vi if you take her words at face value while ignoring everything else. As the video maker said: Caitlyn may SAY Vi can go after Jinx, but she LOOKS like she wants to make out.
It's completely fair to feel like she prompted Vi's response, even if it was nonverbally.
@@DLxxx when she went there she was frowning, voice tight till she saw how vi was self deprecating badly for choosing wrong, hands around her neck and forehead pressed on the wall, so caitlyn tries her best to not prolongue this suffering, showing her in a teasing way that she knows her, she expected vi to try to do this and she's okay with it, its obviously that vi saw caitlyn putting her love for her first, after months of hallucinating her and yearning she WANTED her so badly so she launched herself to her when she saw caitlyn chosing her
no to mention, everytime they stopped kissing it was caitlyn pushing away and vi pulling her in (like 3 times), i agree that writing wise vi was not done good this season at all, i just dont agree with the unsaid statement that caitlyn went there with sexual/flirty intentions, thats reading the scene so badly, especially because the animators also put their hardwork to show caitlyns surprise at how unexpected the kiss was for her
it was so OBVIOUS this season was rushed and it’s really sad. this series really could’ve been an avatar: the last airbender but instead we got a dexter.
Now you're just being hyperbolic.
it's more of the last season of legend of korra. good, pretty nuanced, but not nearly as good as the first version
The creators swear it was always supposed to be two seasons and I can't believe it
@@peperomiapizza They probably had a simpler idea for S2's story initially, but after all the hype (and a bunch of misguided decisions and external pressures) decided to make it as "epic" as possible to justify taking 3 years to make. Even though you should never have to justify not rushing good storytelling.
you guys are so overdramatic ist sad and arcane already is avatar the last airbender and stop pretending that show was perfect
holy cow you nearly vocalized all the qualms I had with this season LMFAO I was wondering why it didn't feel as right as the first season other than pacing but :( literally complained with my friend about how little vi contributed to the story in s2 it was SOO UPSETTING when she was our favorite AGHGHHHH
like an 8 hour fever dream of a fanfiction I CANT BEAR WATCHING S2 AGAIN FESNOGIE
@@moonymybeloved "8 hour fever dream of a fanfiction" is the best way you could've described it, it's exactly what it felt like while i was watching it 😭
i swear the whole sevika/jinx/isha thing felt like something out of a fanfic, as much as i loved it lol
@@彩-i5iSame, lol. All I could think when they were fighting Smeech was "Is this supposed to be 'Team Jinx' or something?" It felt like the only reason those two were helping Jinx, is so she wouldn't have to face Vi and Caitlyn alone. And I get it, because she would realistically have no chance otherwise, but.. Isha just pops up out of nowhere feeling like s self-insert, and all of Sevika and Jinx's severe bad blood gets too easily swept under the rug (I agree that her creating the arm, while a nice moment, needed more build up than just one quick scene). Also, Sevika’s motives for helping her fight Caitlyn are never made clear. The best you could say is that Sevika wants to strike back at the Enforcers gassing the streets, but we literally never saw her react to the destruction left behind by Caitlyn & Vi whatsoever.
@DLxxx yes! We needed more scenes for each character, too many things were left to our imagination.
I'm so happy I'm not alone in being disappointed at season 2. I've been losing my mind by all the discussions with people. They straight up massacred my girl Vi :(
fr bro
her having s*x with Cait in the same cell her sister was just rotting in is the most unlike Vi ever... Vi is the kinda girl who would have grabbed the keys and run after her sister to stop whatever stupid s*it Jinx was about to do , as an older sister to a depressed little sister I just cant ever imagine reacting like this...like wtf your sister literally tells you she is about to "end the cycle of abuse" ....and your reaction is to have s*x with your crush? Nah... my sisters life is definetly more important to me than my libido, I wouldnt even have in mind to have s*x at a moment like this also arent these cells kinda traumatizing for Vi aswell? since she herself rotted in there for many years
@@HK-gm8peThey should've done it under the open sky, where Vi could "taste" freedom. The gardens would've been a better place.
Vi knows how to pick a lock as seen in S1, so why did she not open her jail cell and go after Jinx? They really dragged Vi into a dirt. And whats her last line in S2? "Im the dirt under your nails." Its obvious the remaining writers hated her, especially Christian and Alex, two boring white heterosexual male.
They straight up massacred everyone. Point at a character and there's 80% chance they ruined them
They told us this story was about jinx and Vi, sisters, opposite sides of a coin, etc etc. And what did we get for that promise?? Nothing basically. Let the suicidal character end themselves, sacrifice themselves apparently was the only solution. And Vi deserves better, we deserve better sapphic representation. I am so mad. I can't even see the good in this season 2, I am so blinded by my anger, tbh
And then later they said the story was always ment to be a romance story between Cait and Vi and the only reason they killed Vi's parents was to make more relationship drama for them 😭
THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT HOW WEIRD IT IS THAT JINX WAS LIKE. REWARDED FOR TRYING TO OFF HERSELF. They just made her do it differently 😭
God it’s so crazy to me that every character who was shown to struggle with suicide (Jayce, Viktor and Jinx) ALL ended up sacrificing their lives in some way like. It’s not rlly the same with Jayce and Viktor but it’s an insane coincidence.
jinx litterally survived lol
@@TwinklingMysticShot Wtf is Riot doing 😭
@@mathies3598 she has not.
It hurts my soul that so many shows are having way to long runtimes (The Walking Dead and others) whilst others like Arcane (and so many cancelled shows from netflix) don't get the seasons they needed
What’s sad about Arcane is, based on what I’ve heard, they were offered those multiple seasons. They shot the offer down to stick with just the two, when they really really needed at least a third season.
I respect creators that know the limits of their show. But this is a show that ended to soon imo, for more than “but it’s so good and I love it!” reasons.
@@KS-tp1um Their stated reason was because they "spent nine years with these characters already," so they were experiencing burnout. But there's plenty of ways to deal with burnout in a long term project. Taking breaks and giving staff members time to individually step away from the project, for one. But also bringing in fresh writers with experience in the areas of writing they weren't as efficient in could've helped with this too (they proved they could make a masterpiece with season one, but that after being given twice the amount of time, having the freedom to be an adaption without the weight of executive meddling and fan expectations, and having twice the amount of years to redraft the story to a polished, mirror sheen).
@@DLxxx In my experience it takes a long time to create a good story (or script). And usually the writers know where the story is going and write with the ending in mind.
Then there are the changes that happen on set, when actors maybe improvise or directors change some things while shooting. The shooting script usually ends up a bit different than the written draft. But not major changes. Here, maybe the voice actors or the animators had some freedom to improvise a line or two, a scene or two (like the CaitVi prison scene where the writers said that the animators improvised it, while they hadn't written it). But overall they should have had a draft of season two from when they started creating the whole show. Not sure how the production process works for Riot, how many writers worked independently on episodes - but I did check the credits on IMDB and the ones credited for S1 are mostly missing in S2. BAD decision imo to get rid of those writers - what's left is totally the opposite of good writing.
Dialogue was horrid in S2, as well as character development and complexity, plot beats, the music went overboard but failed to land the same impact it had in S1... Character death and bad dialogue and missed beats made this season a caricature of "what could have been". Sadness.
@@bird.inspace One of the writers, Amanda Overton, said in an interview that they wrote season 2 during Covid lock down, the writers were reduced to only 3, most of the season's writing was done via zoom call, and she had to keep reminding Christian Linke, one of the other writers, that they needed to resolve Cait and Vi's storyline. That definitely played a huge part in the writing quality. Christian also said that the writers lost interest in Vi during season 2 and he overall doesn't seem very interested in character driven plots and more interested in action driven plots.
@@DLxxx "Their stated reason was because they "spent nine years with these characters already," so they were experiencing burnout"
That's not an acceptable excuse. Imagine a chef experiencing burnout, then deciding to halfass your meal to focus on someone else's. That's not okay. That's unprofessional and unfair to your customer. If these guys don't care about their characters, then why tf are you telling their story? Idiots
One of the most interesting parts about Vi in season one is the way that her being stuck in the past drives her actions. She's captured by Marcus and interned in Stillwater indefinitely, only surfacing again because Caitlyn illegally has her released. From there, she's totally disconnected from the real problems in the Undercity AND the real problems with her sister. She still sees Jinx as the nine-year-old girl she was separated from all those years ago, and she believes taking Silco down will solve everything. Neither of those two things are strictly true; the reality of the situations is much more complicated, but she pursues what she thinks is the right course of action with single-minded abandon. The two most notable effects she has on the plot are the assault on the Shimmer factory where Renni's son is killed (collateral resulting from her zealotry which sends Jayce in pursuit of a truce) and the stress her attentions put on Jinx's mental state (she thinks Powder is still in there, if only she could reach her, as if people are so simple as that). There's nothing like that for her to do in season two - Vi has been robbed of all agency and just drifts wherever the plot requires, tagging along with either Caitlyn or Jinx depending on what act she's in. It's a tragic waste of potential, which is fitting, because if I had to sum up season two in four words, those would be they.
The whole arc of s1 is to go from powder to Jinx. The question at the end of the season s "Will she chose her sister and become powder or Silco and become Jinx?" She kills Silco, and then confirms her identity as Jinx. To give her a pet voiceless child to soften her, only to kill the child later for angst, is such a bad choice.
It felt that the season prioritized big, dramatic, musical moments as opposed to actual development to make those moments meaningful.
Jinx went from a sympathetic villain to a likeable anti-hero because she's a fan favorite. Her excitement and creativity when it came to violence is what made her Jinx. She doesn't even "build something new" like ekko insinuated she would she tied a hot air to her HQ and used her machine gun. Compare that to Sevikas arm, her booby trap bombs, the shark rocket, the colorful gas, Isha-fied Jinx is not Jinx. It's like an Arcane fan who loved Jinx made an OC and inserted her into the show to instantly heal her. and then she's not even mentioned again after she dies. She might as well been an imaginary friend.
Maybe the hot air balloon and her gun are not the the things ekko inspired her to build, but something she had to do first?
And yet they didn't even commit to the anti-hero thing. Like when Jinx busted everyone out of prison and there was a few seconds long emotional moment of everyone silently thanking her and it seemingly even moved her somewhat and then.... that was it. That was never ever built upon or anything.
Thank you for saying she's a sympathetic villain. People seem to think her being very sympathetic means she's not a villain, but she murdered people for fun and made jokes while doing it. She strapped a fake bomb to a guy's back because she thought it was funny to see him think he was going to die.
YES. you explained my feelings so well
@@PartofHistory214 People really brush over how evil she is because she’s attractive and traumatized. It’s so irritating
ALSO- what happened to that powerup of the gauntlets for when Vi learned to defend herself?? It happened during the bar fight with Sevika, and it was a pretty cool moment where Vi finally learns to defend herself rather than just attacking blindly. It never gets mentioned again??
Imagine she used that in her fight against Jinx.. She would've completely decimated her. I remember being so baffled as to why Jinx's bomb trap even worked in that fight, because Vi literally _put up her gurad,_ lol.
@@DLxxxif they did that, it would show that Vi finally learned to not block with her face. IT WOULDVE BEEN SO GOOD-😭😭
Loved what you said about the fact that Jinx choosing to be dead to Vi means that Vi DOESN'T get the choice to let her go. Even though that theme of walking away was conveyed through Jinx, it pertains to any conflict and any person within a conflict in the story. The ending of the show essentially puts Vi in the same place emotionally that the end of season 1 act 1 did. She's just lost her entire family again, and it's all because Jinx wanted to help Vi, which Vi can only internalize as being her mistake as a big sister. Much of season 2 felt like it sacrificed character writing for the sake of a theme or an emotion, and only used the existing characters as a means to get there with not much regard for HOW we get there, which is such a big shame. Great video!
Writers messed up hard, the visual storytelling is still good, so fortiche slayed.
I don't think I could accept Cait and Vi as a couple this season. Or, at least, not unless the show commits to its extreme toxicity! There is a lot going on in their relationship that makes my skin crawl, especially the way people romanticize it. I also agree that the sister relationship was really messed up this season.
Same and caitvi were so good in S1! I just think if they talked more abt their issues then it would've been better. Just a little bit of conversation PLS 😭
Me too even in season 1 I was pretty wary and cautious about how they were setting them up, it was a decent setup, I was looking forward to it but in season 2 the way it plays out is so horrible and problematic its almost insulting. They ruined and completely sidelined Vi and made Caitlyn irredeemable to me, her redemption was way too short and nonexistent there was no honest conversation or even proper acknowledgement of their issues from both Cait and Vi.
Their sex scene while visually greatly animated, felt inappropriate with the current context of their characters arcs.
I hate how the some of the fandom romanticize it too and brush off all the toxicity.
Also I saw a bit of racism toward Ekko character with dictator Cait edits its disgusting. Like this is not the representation we need and deserve.
I can't ship/support canon CaitVi in good conscious.
Yeah. What a fucking garbage show.
@@twistedwonderland1043 yeah, this show is fucking garbage.
It's so strange how the 2 big romantic relationships in this season are toxic, with Cait just beating up Vi for half the season and Ekko falling in love with a mass murderer who has killed a bunch of his friends and has attempted to kill him.
THANK YOU! I was too scared to do a video on this for the potential massacre from the fans, but completely agree! My personal one is how they massacred my girl Jinx 😭like WHAT HAPPENED!!! THE AMOUNT OF POTENTIAL SHE HAD I JUSSSTTTTTTT😭
I love your channel especially the vampire diaries videos
I'm just from watching your video.
oh i've seen your thumbnails floating around!! i need to check out your channel as a fellow movie glirlie 🫶 and ngl my heart was POUNDING when i clicked 'publish' haha but i was so passionate i couldn't NOT make this video. i totally feel your pain with Jinx 😭
@@MimiEsther101 omg thank you so much!!💕💕 happy to have you!😄
@@mochiieekim no way!😂 hope you enjoyed!💕
I felt very uncomfortable watching the prison scene and I think you helped me realize why. (And I've been hoping for this scene for 3 years so imagine my heartbreak, I even felt guilty for not liking it at first, since we have so little lesbian rep.)
It felt very out of character.
First off, why does Cait show up all smug and flirty? When she's meant to give Vi the choice to leave? And when Vi is clearly in distress and - both physically and emotionally - hurt? It threw me for a loop.
Caitlyn's demeanor was so out of character compared to how she acts in their usual dynamic. They've both always been really gentle and sweet and sensible with each other. It didn't feel like the real Caitlyn, it felt like a fanfic. This whole season felt like a fanfic.
It also felt like they were objectified.
They really couldn't cut to them going to a bedroom? Or anywhere else? Really?
Vi on her knees for an enforcer in a cell felt so wrong and uncomfortable.
As you said, Vi has consistently been the hesitant one when it comes to love so it felt very jarring for her to just pounce on Cait and suddenly be all confident. Especially in the context of her situation (with Jinx, with Cait, with her own headspace, everything). You're right, it _should_ be more difficult for her but they don't show that.
She felt objectified, like they wanted her to do all the action,
In fact, she seems sxualized and fetishized with weird undertones throughout the whole season (the spitting on Cait's face, the handcuffs, the prison s*x) like they're not interested in her being loved or taken care of. Even _Maddie_ got a bed and pillow talk
(Speaking of Maddie, so true what you said about Vi not giving a f. I didn't think much of it first but you're right it contradicts Vi's previously shown thoughts and behavior. I think they just had to cram it in there cause they couldn't leave it unaddressed. Just a whole mess.)
Nitpick but while I'm venting: I also didn't like the lighting of the scene, it just felt off and claustrophobic, idk how to explain. Like don't get me wrong I love a good dimly lit scene but this just felt off.
The blurred barbie doll bobblehead look didn't make it better either.
And of course, as you said, it really didn't feel earned. Not just a s*x scene in general at that point, but especially a passionate one like that. _If anything_ , a gentle soft scene where they could start mending their relationship would feel more appropriate. Like, Caitlyn didn't even apologize, they didn't ever really talk at all. It didn't feel as heartfelt as it should, it felt more physical than emotional. Lust instead of romance, as you said.
They truly ruined my favorite ship, I am so sad...
I think the only caitvi moments I loved this season were in the first episode + the first kiss in isolation (but not when you take the context into account). Otherwise they were just fighting, arguing and being out of character.
Woah, long rant... (If anyone feels differently I respect your opinion but this is how I feel)
Yeah the more I look into that scene, the worse it gets for me. Both of them had their characters assassinated for the sake of conflict and shipping.
“bobblehead” 🤣
it’s nowhere near the biggest issue with the scene but: i honestly wonder if the blurriness could have something to do with how queer people are often oversexualized? because i agree, i feel like they were blurred to the point it was distracting. and someone on x noted that both jinx and ambessa sideboob is shown so why not the same treatment for caitvi? again it’s not that big a deal but yeah it’s interesting
“Vi on her knees for an enforcer in a cell felt so wrong and uncomfortable.” YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!! that scene was so random and considering Vi’s history it was sooo weird.
I literally said 'well that was a weird place for that' right after to kind of release tension
The whole Maddie subplot was completely pointless. It was suppose to add some angst? But it meant nothing because she was a spy-and, by the way, she hated Cait the entire time. So, apparently, it’s fine that she died and it meant nothing. If that’s the case, why include it at all? It barely influenced the story, and it wasn’t even clear until the final episode that Maddie supposedly hated Cait. To make it worse, the writers kept giving different reasons for why Cait hooked up with Maddie, which just added to the confusion. But honestly, the idea that Vi would be indifferent or that Cait would think it was okay to do that is some of the laziest writing I’ve ever seen.
Cait's mother saying the underground deserves to breathe makes no sense. She was a "polite" classist, but she showed clear disdain whenever she encountered or spoke about someone from Zaun. She even turned her back on Jayce when it wasn't popular to support him. The last time we see her alive, she hesitates to vote for Zaun's independence, and only does so (with a bewildered face) once she sees everyone else vote.
It seems this season wanted to absolve all the female characters of their sins. I'm convinced that the season wasn't just rushed, it was written by completely different people.
I agree Cassandra isn't _that_ great of a person, but I do think she had some nuance in Season 1. Specifically when she allowed Caitlyn to scream at her about the state of the undercity, and then proceeded to relent and schedule a meeting for her and Vi to personally talk to the council themselves.
Also, before that, while she did leave Jayce out in the rain (and I'm not going to defend her decision whatsoever) she did at least vouch for his character when the rest of the council wanted to condemn him, and voted to let him return to his home instead of be exiled. If she were entirely self centered, she would've probably betrayed him in the trial instead of going against her fellow councilman. There's also a point early on where she flat out says "the Undercity cannot be controlled. Not by us." Implying she supports their independence, but wants it to go through the proper "procedures," as she says in the S1 finale. Though her angered reaction does make it clear that she's prejudiced and can't see too far past the cities own self interests.
No that makes sense, she didn't like the people from Zaun but that doesn't mean she doesn't think the underground shouldn't improve.
That isn't true at all. Nah it wasn't really.
@Jdudec367 "they deserve clean air"... that's simply not something she would say. Tell me you seriously imagine those words coming from her lips based on how her character was presented...
@@remus4283 Nah it is. I can imagine that tbh.
@@remus4283just because her character was shown to present disdain against Zaun doesn’t mean she thinks they don’t deserve life 🤦♂️ everyone on the council knew Zaun was still under their influence and ruling, they knew that zaunites were still “their people”, but held certain grudges against them simply for being less than them in status and wealth. Clean air is literally the BARE MINIMUM for a civilization, so I can 100% see her saying “They deserve clean air”, but also saying “why would they need more than that?”. That’s why she was hesitant to declare their independence.
The whole season Jinx wanted to die, and when Isha, the only close person she has left, dies you'd think that will be her breaking point, but no cause Ekko talks her out of it OFF SCREEN just so she can get her spinoff later innthe future. I really hate MOST of the decisions the creator and writers chose for the show, transforming this nuanced show about trauma and human relationships into another game adaptation. Most of the story feels like they did it not for an artistic vision but for fanservice for gamers.
I'm confused what was off screen? They show Ekko talking Jinx down.
@clumsyninja925 he said... one line, and then it cuts to everything else, and then Jinx is back as a hero. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY SHOWED HIM TALKING HER DOWN???
@rafaelmartinez4803 it wasn't one line. Bro was taking physical damage due to rewinding their convo too many times.
@clumsyninja925 yeah, but, then we don't see the important part where he talks to Jinx and succesfully makes her change her mind. WHAT IS YOUR POINT HERE?
@@rafaelmartinez4803 Wasn't that literally on screen though?
I rarely comment on things I don't like, but in the case of the second season of Arcane I find it hard to resist at times.
By complete coincidence, when the first season of Arcane came out I was taking a creative writing course (I'm a copywriter by profession) one of the lecturers told us during a lecture on characterisation of main and side characters that if you want to see how to do character arc well and how to create characters that have both internal and external conflict for visual storytelling then analyse the plot of the first season of Arcane. Yes, that show was so good that lecturers pointed to it as a benchmark of good writing.
For me, the first season is what screenwriters should strive for, not only in animation but also in live action movies. Peak visual storytelling with extremely competent writing. We had to wait three long years to see the completion of a story that promised to be one of the most epic we would ever see on television.
Through the eyes of my imagination I could see the conflict between Zaun and Piltover growing, as two sisters fight on two opposing sides in a war between two social classes, one using hextech the other shimmer. A war in which each side has its own plausible reasons for fighting it, even though peace was so close. I could already see these future internal and external conflicts of the various characters (although you could guess that none of the game characters would suffer enough to completely change canon, after all, skins have to sell).
And suddenly BOOM, the whole plot of the conflict between Piltover and Zaun flew into the trash - that was the first moment I thought - what was the whole first season for?
It looked as if the writers were saying - oh no no gentlemen, that's in the past, now we'll show you a show about Ambessa having an affair 20 years earlier by which she has to gain power over hextech to defend herself from the Black Rose or something.
On top of that we'll add cheap tear squeezers in the form of episodes featuring the return of Vander in Warwick's form, we'll forcefully tack on an underdeveloped Isha character (very good example how you shouldn't create an impact character), a mirror image of Powder so that not only Vi in the second season has her emo arc but also Jinx will be sad. Also, we will be ‘killing off’ but not actually killing off various characters so that they are then not even mentioned after their death, as if they never existed. In addition to this, some of the characters will disappear for almost a third of the whole season, but fear not, because in the last episode they will come back and save the world.
And as the icing on the cake we'll throw in a shrex scene at the stupidest moment we can, even though we could have chosen 9 other episodes and a thousand other moments.
And all of this at a pace that can only be competently followed if you pause the series every now and then and go back a few minutes, but at the same time we will throw in lengthy music videos to tap into the demographic of a 15-year-old with an attention span that only allows them to absorb short tiktoks.
After the first season, the creators were one step away from greatness. It's a shame it didn't work out.
Edit: the same lecturer who after the first season put Arcane as a benchmark when it comes to complex character creation, now cites the second season of Arcane as a benchmark for character assassination.
If u want an explanation , the writers room went from 10 in season 1 to 3 in season 2.
Perfect analysis. I will always be in awe of the brilliance of S1 - art, story, music. Clearly, life changing to all of us who watch it. And then S2 comes along and punches us in the stomach. The line, "What Could Have Been?" has never been so poignant.
@@shermk7955 What?.... WHAT??
@@shermk7955 I don't think the problem lies in the number of writers, there are many series that are entirely or mostly written by one person and are very good.
I feel for you so much!!!
I personally never do get into discussions about anything, especially anything main-stream. And really rarely do I watch anything new. I either watch nothing at all or something along all-time classics.
I watched Arcane in 2022-2023 or something. And I was mesmerized by how great this story is! I've never felt this amount of emotions from an animated show before that. Characters, stories, their ideas, emotions, actions it all made sense and such a pleasure it was to watch it all the way through! I never seen anything as good as Arcane S1. So I had my hopes on S2. And they eventually just...blew it.
What I see is yet another empty MCU-esque action movie. They tried to show something and I perfectly see what it is, but it all just doesn't make any sense the way it's written and shown on screen. I rarely do feel for anything at all, but Arcane S2 just made me ballistic over how disappointing it is
Vi is one of my favourite characters of all fiction, and it hurts how they wrote her and the world around her this season.
Had they written her better, the whole season would have improved so much, in my opinion. The way she could have been the link between Zaun and Pilltover, enforcers and the downtrodden Zaunites.... heck, Maddie's betrayal and Vander's enforcer look alike's death would have been more meaningful. It honestly felt like they explored Vi like a side character this season.
This was a really awesome video essay and I hope you don't receive any hate for it. Everything you said was absolutely valid.
Edit: Also, also. Am I the only one asking myself why Vi or Caitlyn never mentioned to Sevika how Jinx was the one who took out Silco when they were fighting?
nothing she said here is valid its just her opinion and she also deserves critisism thats how it works
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d What ever said opinions can't be valid? One can have a valid concern or critique even if it is just their own perspective because there is merit to it.
Furthermore, is criticism the same as hate?
In the original lore Vi is an enforcer. It would've been interesting if the season led up to her becoming an enforcer in the end to help Zaun from the inside and keep the peace similarly to how Vander was trying to do.
@@boxingelfis1499 i think they handle vi perfectly this season is my opinion valid or not valid?is it has merits or it is just a opinion?
@@MonsterEnjoyer69 nice fan fiction
I love Vi so much. She is done so dirty in the second season. She was cardboard cutout for most of it.
I really liked the viktor and jayce stuff, but I totally see how the sisters' story was pushed aside for it. Despite the viktor stuff being really interesting, it did make everything kinda under developed with the focus being split.
Viktor stuff being interesting? Sorry what? They basically butchered the whole political drama for it. We lost all the interesting plotlines that was promised(Jayce dealing with the aftermath of his rogue deal, how they sort out Zaun's independence if they are even going to continue with it, and how they may have to consider international politics with the Noxians, who might I remind you, are an empire known for their invasions, why the fuck are the Piltoverians not suspicious at all.) What was it replaced with? This cheap ass sci fi plot.
I thought Viktor's story was interesting.....until they flipped him into another mcu villain. That sht took me out and I found it disappointing and boring. I didn't think Jayce's story was interesting at all. I thought it was conceptually interesting, but the way it was handled was rushed af and disengaging for me
Viktor was empty though, Jayce rushed
@@Cecilia-ky3uw I understand that the show is flawed but I still enjoyed watching it. Even though in season 2 the plot and focus are messy I still liked elements of it. I can see how it might be hard for someone to look past the problems though.
This is exactly why we say we NEEDED ANOTHER SEASON. They had to set aside a very good part of the story and world because they wanted to be done with it to start other projects.
Neither of the stories from season 1 and season 2 were terrible. They just needed to decide on a plotline, which they didn’t really; it had to either be with Jinx and Vi and the divided city or Viktor and his thing going on
Agreed. Both were really good concepts, but they tried to do too much at the same time, leading to the quality of each plotline decreasing. It could've worked if the series went on for longer, to explore each plot in detail, even if it was slower. There was just so much skimmed over.
If they had more time, more preferably a third season, they would've had time to do both plotlines justice. Instead, we got half-assed quality on both
Every character you see in season 2 got retconned or straight up ignored their premises of season one, the stories are worse
Don't forget about their third, extremely ambitious idea that made things extremely complicated and jumbled up the story, the Noxus and Black rose stuff.
In the first few episodes, I liked how they were setting up Viktor as the healer of the undercity and I thought it would build up to him and Jinx leading Zaun in the revolution against Piltover. That would've been so much cooler than ignoring all social tensions in favor cosmic spectacle
I'm not very analytical when it comes to large scale complex stories like arcane, so I thought I enjoyed this season, and I did. But after watching, it left a pit in my stomach like I knew it didn't feel right but I couldn't figure out why. All of the people that watched season 2 and loved it so much overwhelmed my senses, I guess. After having my vision cleared by this video, my conclusion is that the pacing felt really weird. I mean that in the most substantial way, as in a plot point from act 2 could have supported the story way more had it taken place in the first act (Vi's emo brawl fighter breakdown). It kind of feels like if you arrange each thing that happens in this season into a different order it would make way more sense, no further points required. If that is too drastic, A THIRD SEASON WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT, I don't think there wouldn't be enough content. It felt very rushed; I've rewatched already and still am confused.
I have a deep appreciation for videos like these, because eventually I'd like to make a story of my own and often am guided by these critiques.
Also, something totally unrelated: I loved this video so much and all the thought that was put into it, but I think it would be nice to hear different music playing in the background? Obviously that's low priority, however I'd love to hear some variety haha
Anyways good work!
i loved how the first season was political, and hated the direction for season two. I absolutely hated how the story went from politics to fight god
there are more considerations in the mix than just focussing on two characters... this is a LoL product so why the hell would they want to ignore their other characters? You've gotta put it all in some perspective here.
@MetalDude-s1c and where did i said about two characters?
@@MetalDude-s1cas a league player, the other characters they focused on were either A. made up for arcane and then later added in game [ie, ambessa and mel] or B. completely rewritten after arcane season 1. if they wanted to focus on league viktor and league jayce, they didnt have to add all the shit with the arcane. all that you needed was one of them to try and help humanity, and the other to surpass it via cybernetics. thats a good side plot that can even BE political. Ie; is viktor doing eugenics? how does it help people to strip them of humanity? can jayce claim to help people if his position of power inherently means there will be people he has to step on? Viktor wasnt a god in lore before season 2, they rewrote him to be that way after the series ended. they didnt need all of that. they had noxus mentioned, sure, but they didnt need the black rose. ambessa and mel in season one were defined by strained relationships, not by magic or even by noxus.
Commenting before watching but I completely agree. Aside from au Powder and Ambessa, I felt Arcane's female cast was pretty poorly handled in S2.
Vi is now a pretty much fully assassinated character who's never given time for her own characterization outside of her relationships with Jinx and Cait, constantly makes dumb choices, never gets oppurtunities to move the plot or her own journey forward (except maybe her instigating the sex scene, but while that is the closest thing she gets to development I still felt that was a way too sudden shift in her and Cait's current relationship, and despise the idea that her fucking in a prison cell is her overcoming her prison trauma). Her trauma is rarely explored, we don't get her perspective on basically becoming an enforcer and just abandoning all of her ideals, it's just a mess and her conclusion is horrible and actively regresses her as a character.
Cait had a great arc in act 1, only for them to never deliver on her as a villain from that point on and have her switch up and let things be with Jinx so quickly that it honestly feels not only rushed but kind of cowardly to not have her actually do anything villainous in act 2. Her relationship with Ambessa is also underwhelming and I think there should've been more actual apologies from her to Vi.
Mel gets thrown into sequel bait and given a dumb powerup, which just feels like a lazy way to make her a champion instead of actually exploring her more interesting characteristics like her morality, political skills, and dynamic with Jayce and the council. I know this might seem extreme but Mel's arc this season into a shonen mage feels like the one thing in Arcane that fully prioritizes product and advertisement over genuine art and serving the character/story.
Jinx has more good qualities to her character this season but frankly I think she's just so watered down into a more palatable and less complex character in S2. Even in act 1. The omission of her psychosis is one of the biggest problems I have with the whole story, and after S1 ended with her seemingly fully embracing her Jinx persona and descending into a worse state morally and mentally, it's so out of character and kind of shitty seeing her just giving up on the Jinx persona even when she's finally getting praise for it. I'm not against her getting a redemption arc, but given the rock bottom she hit by S1, and just how awful of a person she was there, I think it would need way more time for her redemption to feel natural or earned. At least a third or fourth season. Not showing her be talked out of suicide by Ekko is also one of the worst writing choices this season.
I get why people like Isha, and I don't hate her, but I also don't really feel anything for her. She's such a blatant plot device. She has absolutely no characterization, goals, motives, backstory, or personality outside of idolizing Jinx. She's just her emotional support child. Her lack of any lines just feels like a way to give her less personality and make it less likely for the audience to potentionally find her annoying (granted I'm at least glad we got some mute representation, but I think it's far from a coincidence that it's given to the child with barely any personality and is meant to be easy for the audience to attach to). Her relationship with Jinx feels like the most corny, generic dramedy part of Arcane, and her death didn't mean much to me since it was pretty easily preventable and clearly just to make Jinx sad.
Maddie just doesn't work as a twist villain to me. We get no time to see her do evil things and make her unlikeable because they kill her off instantly. We get no exploration for her motives in the show (I know the creators confirmed she's a noxian but that's in outside material and even that doesn't go into what Ambessa and her goals mean to her specifically). Her stance around Cait is actually contradictory to what Ambessa wants, and she never does anything that serves to sabatoge Cait or pay off down the line. I genuinely don't get her point.
Sevika not getting ANY lines after ep 4 feels like a disservice to her character and Zaun as a whole. Yes she's not a main character but she's important enough to deserve a full conclusion and proper screentime given to her arc. She hardly interacts with her foil Vi this season, and they establish an interesting united in grief dynamic with her and Jinx this season, only for Jinx to abandon her and the whole revolution plotline after ep 4 which makes the whole Zaun piltover classwar thing feel completely wasted, along with Sevika's character.
The funny thing is, despite me feeling the female cast was pretty poorly handled, including compared to the male cast (who also have their issues but I felt Ekko and Jayce were handled pretty well), I don't think it's sexist writing. Arcane still does a good job at making its female characters strong in ways that don't feel performative but just genuinely portraying them as complex characters with strength and vulnerability, who can succeed or fail just like the men in their world. But that doesn't change that most of them are written in a very rushed and inconsistent way.
Sorry for the rant I hope my points make sense here.
Don’t be sorry ur so right :/ this seasons writing is so confusing I literally cannot believe it was written at the same time as season 1
Yea and the whole Sevika-Jinx-Isha trio thing - as soon as Isha dies it's like Sevika never knew her or never got closer to jinx
I had complete faith in Arcane S2. I had so much trust in the writers.
There is no way S1 was just a lucky fluke, there were so many clearly intentional and brilliant decisions stacked on top of each other, i saw no way how S2 could be bad.
Im so beyond disappointed. Im glad to see a few more critical videos popping up because the almost universal praise it gets is genuinely making me go insane.
What did people even enjoy about S1 if they dont see all the massive flaws with S2?
Was it really just the incredible animation and some shipping?
The red flags were all there before release. S2 was only in production for half the time of season 1, Riot burdened Arcane with carrying the main cannon (unlike S1, which was free to be an adaption and love letter to the community), and fans had EXTREME opinions that the showmakers were always likely to buckle to or misinterpret. Remember, despite being a masterpiece (made in slowburn over 6 years), Arcane S1 was still their very first TV shoe. I'm not surprised at all by how immature and irresponsible some of their creative choices with S2 were.
Like, everyone loved the music at the end of Act 1, 2, and 3, but they loved it because of how well it complimented the storytelling (not subsistute for it). But the show makers saw that praise and went "Well, let's put musical montages in EVERY episode. I'm sure fans will love that!" Not realizing that by doing that, they made the important moments (and music in genral) feel significantly less impactful.
Honestly, they just got too hung up on fanservice in general. They heard shippers wanted a passionate.. _moment_ between Cait and Vi, and proceeded to give us the infamous prison scene because they wanted to include it at all costs. Ekko's arc this season was completely disconnected from the Firelights, and almost entirely focused on Jinx, because the Jinx vs Ekko scene broke the internet, and they wanted to try and cater to Timebomb shippers. It's like they think the characters are toys sometimes, lol.
@DLxxx the thing is, alot of people are very happy with the season even if it didn't go into the depth or focus on particular things. that a certain segment of the fanbase wanted. I can definitely see the 'people pleasing' and fan service tendency playing a role for better or worse. I think in future shows more experienced people assisting in the planning stages will help things be more cohesive, so let's hope Riot hires a few more tv and movie industry vets to help out or at least consult with.
Overall I personally enjoyed both seasons but I for sure can see the issues with season 2 as opposed to season 1. The danger of posing too many intriguing questions and not giving yourself enough time to answer them.
I had the same experience. I feel like my trust has been violated. But that's probably too parasocial of a way to look at it lol
The answer is easy:
The masses are really easy to amuse. Arcane S2 is yet another example of how you can manipulate your audience without providing any substance to your story whatsoever and still get away with it
i will NEVER get over the way they ruined vi (and caitvi but specifically vi) and i will forever be salty about it. baffling how so many parts of s2 even got greenlit in the first place. my girl went from badass main character to lobotomized doormat
literally
im so pissed they fucked the saphic rep. disgusted at the oppressor x victim bs they pulled. cait straight up police brutalitied her girlfriend and never even verbally apologized
@@oi2715 Vi basically ditched her in favour of Jinx, which she was just 10 seconds ago committed to kill, all because of some random kid who she didn't know and didn't seem to have a problem with when the last kid died, of course Cait was angry, and then you've got the fact that Vi knows Jinx killed Cait's mother... and your mad Cait beat her down, and should apologise for Vi's betrayal.. are you dumb?
I said this elsewhere, but Vi's entire fall to the pitfighter arc and everything would've felt waay more impactful had they focused on her role as the "protector" more. Like, she's still stuck battling a ghost of the past and wants to do things by herself, the only difference being she's doing it to protect Caitlyn now. She could've completely rejected taking the enforcer path until the final act and gone off on her own to finish Jinx off. She ends up being intertwined in Cait's path every time in her search for Jinx, which would've made the separation between the two much more heartbreaking, and their reunion all the more fulfilling.
There is an entire separate idea I had regarding their reunion, but really, if they treated Vi a tad more maturely, the whole season would've felt so much more interesting-
Hi, would love to hear more about your idea and your thoughts on Vi and Cait together and separate
Fully agree - and brave move to put out this video!! The fan base is absolutely hating on any criticism levelled at S2’s writing
Too bad. There's only going to be more.
It's toxic positivity at it's finest. Their are some amazing people in this community, but the bizzare defensiveness of the fandom after S2 is just not acceptable. Not in the slightest. Improvement and quality can't come from delusions, willfull ignorance, or the shutting down of meaningful criticism (or even just negative reactions in general). This should be a learning opportunity about importance of giving stories more time to be written, and why you shouldn't _ever_ mishandle the legacy of a timeless masterpiece like Season 1. I'm sure the people behind the season wanted it to be good (obviously no one wants to make a bad products that millions of people are passionate about), but their decision to cut the shows development short because they were simply getting bored of it (on top of other external pressures) should not be used as an excuse to handwave sway criticism, or make the consequences seem any less important than they actually are. The producers *chose* to not let the story reach the same level of quality as season 1. They chose to give themselves less time. They chose every single poor writing decision in this season, and their needs to be some sort of learning and accountability for that. We shouldn't be dog piling people just because you yourself don't dislike the season, or don't want criticism to affect your perception of it. That's just selfish and gross behavior.
@@DLxxx my god you patheric crying because people love season 2 and are not negtive nancys like you critisim is okay but when you act like a toxic person like you no wonder they insult you.your opinions is not correct one its just a opinion
@@blacktigerpaw1 ok hater
It could be because the writing can be so good and they can't stand the idea that's it's not perfect
nothing ever really is .
i feel like vi’s rushing to become an enforcer was influenced by her league counterpart already being an enforcer and the writers wanting to cram it in as they couldn’t find any other time to do it. from a story writing standpoint, it would’ve made a lot more sense for it to just be vi and caitlyn going after jinx with vi only being an ally of sorts
meanwhile they completely scrapped viktor's character from league lol
Vi, Viktor, Heimerdinger, and Warwick were done so dirty in S2😢
I'd include Mel, they threw away everything that made her an interesting character just to introduce a plot for spin offs
@@giu941 I agree. I really liked Mel in S1, but her storyline in S2 is so bland and takes us away from the story arcs that really mattered.
@@ApexGamer-eo8zc I loved every character in S1, but her, Vi and Viktor were my favorites. I really liked how she was "just" a politician, but even without the magic/tech shenanigans she was way more powerful than the LoL champions. Imo her black rose plot was so rushed and making her another mage in a world full of them felt so unoriginal, at least in the rushed pacing of S2 :/ like girl didn't die in the explosion just to be character assassinated
Mel in S1 was just Jayce's plaything. She did more in S2 than she done in S1.
@@bwslayer926 since when was jayce playing anything lmao. it's very solidified that she uses jayce for her own means, even if she does have true feelings for him they only start to show up when he's worth the investment.
It’s so true that they fumbled Vi in season two. Like it bothered me but I couldnt point out why, possibly because I was distracted by how hot emo Vi was, but you so are right, she is completely static😭 It would have been so cool to see her actually change and have an arc BECAUSE SHE IS A MAIN CHARACTER
I absolutely adored Jinx's character writing in S1. The way her mental illness was treated so maturely and with so much nuance was incredible. And the fact they hard committed to her being a terrible person who murders and kills at the drop of a hat, and have that be remembered in the conflict was brilliant. Ekko tells Vi so many times that hey she's a different person now, you can't change her Vi. And he's right. Powder is gone, Jinx remains. What could've been being the final line of the season is also great. It shows that there's no going back. There's no bridge left for Powder to return. It's hauntingly tragic but makes complete sense with the people Vi and Jinx became.
S2 told me that actually its not what could've been, its what will be. Jinx will be a hero, she will get a child dropped on her head from the sky that will fix all of her mental problems, and her Vi and Vander will be a happy family again. It's incredibly childish and spits on almost every point the first season tried to make about the cycles of violence and how people end up the way they do. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I was livid. Jinx was so well written in S1 but now she's just become another Harley Quinn whereas before she was the best in that archetype. They never bring up her murders against so many innocent people because the message S2 wants to have conflicts so much with it. I loved Arcane and S2 destroyed my faith in Riot, and my faith in any future projects. There's gonna have to be some incredible recommendations for me to give af about anything new this team produces.
Out of curiosity what should have they done with jinx in season 2?
I think your expectations are insane for a show with so many elements to juggle. As much as I love them, there's a lot more going on than just Vi and Jinx in the story. I think it was a fine conclusion considering the complexity of the show and the characters, and attempted to give the main characters all a good spotlight.
I was just happy not to see woke trash for once from a modern show, with characters that actually had some depth, with a great voice cast doing wonders with the material.
I think you're being insanely harsh, all things considered.
I swear the writers hated Vi by S2 and now so do a lot of the fans. Arcane fandom is one I do not like to interact with.
they're only human... you've gotta be realistic. They've been doing this show for 9 years now lol and have careers to continue.
@@MetalDude-s1cbut the writing in s2 was extremely disappointing, i 100% understand that the team would want to move onto the new projects but i don’t ever except anything else from Arcanes future projects to be as good as Arcane s1. If they didn’t loose interest in Arcane s2 would’ve probably been as fantastic if not better than s1. It makes me wish if they lost interest just leave s1 be a standalone show. The finale in s1 concluded the main plot line perfectly.
I think vi’s stubbornness like you mentioned helped her keep up this idea that she tried to convince herself of, repeating over and over again “my sister is gone” so she can trick herself into believing it, but I don’t think she ever really did. It ties into her guilt, she felt as if she needed to push aside her true, personal feelings and bury them in favour of feeling how she felt she had to. I don’t buy it at all when she says the line about not blaming herself anymore, it always felt to me like a very obvious bold faced lie. She absolutely does, it’s why she joins the enforcers in the first place. It influences almost everything that she does
EXACTLY!!! Thank you!! Lmao I couldn't put it into words in my own comment so I'm glad I found someone who did. The enforcer arc felt like punishing herself. Being around the system that killed her family and put her in prison would be a constant reminder of that. That's why her transition into the brawler arc made sense to me. She didn't start the self-destruction then, it started in that alley with the whiskey, it started when she said yes to the badge.
(edit: this is also why the first Jinx/Vi fight doesn't feel high stakes. Vi is lying to herself and Jinx doesn't really want to win.)
exactly this! it kills me when people think she went along with it with absolutely no reservations just to appease caitlyn. It was obviously an incredibly hard decision for her and she looked absolutely miserable doing it
great point! i actually flip flopped a LOT on Vi’s thoughts on Jinx in Act 1. initially, i DID think Vi was lying to herself, like you mentioned, when she says her sister is gone. but what confused me is that she lets Cait take the shot. and she would’ve killed jinx if not for isha. it isn’t until Isha interferes that she realizes her sister might still be in there.
i went with “actions speak louder than words” in this case haha but i do think lying to herself is believable too. whichever the case, i wish we saw into her mindset more so that it was clear!
@@artatmidnight
yeah I can totally see both interpretations! I had the same dilemma. I just think it tracks with her character and flows more smoothly to assume she wasn’t being entirely truthful
I honestly think she allowed caitlyn to take the shot not because she wanted her sister dead or because she truly thought she was gone, but because she felt like she was burdened with the responsibility of rectifying the situation because she felt as if she caused it. Again, playing into her guilt and tendency to self blame
@@scarlettwisteria Wait, huh? So you think Vi, as a result of feeling responsible and burdened by her sisters actions.. gave Caitlyn the burden of killing Jinx, instead doing it herself? Isn't that completely backwards? Vi should be insisting she herself is the one to finish Jinx, not the other way around.
Moreover, the intentions of the strike team contradict itself. In the prior episode, Smeech (one of the chembarons) said that Piltover wanted Jinx alive so she could be tried for her crimes. Yet Caitlyn and Vi immediately try to kill her when they DO have her pinned? I'm pretty sure that's why the video maker was so (understandably) shocked when Vi let Caitlyn attempt to fatal shoot her sister.
Finally, an Arcane season 2 review with integrity. Excited to hear your take!
Almost every musical shortcut should have been a full episode. Cait and Vi hunt, Cait as dictator, Jinx rising as hero of Zaun... They skipped so many important scenes for the sake of glorious evolution...
I think it is pretty obvious that Jinx intends to kill herself, through what jinx says to vi in the cell, along with the fear on Vi's face when she asks what she's going to do. This followed by Vi completely forgetting about Jinx to make out with Caitlyn, in my opinion, can't be justified
@@jamesturnbull128
I don’t agree. The fear vi has is more to do with not knowing, she’s scared because jinx is unpredictable. It’s pretty obvious in what she says to cait afterwards that she most likely assumed her sister just ran away and left her, she just didn’t predict HOW she’d be leaving her. It’s why she feels a sense of betrayal above all else
The audience has more knowledge than vi as a character so it’s easier for us to sniff out and see the signs that she may not, but even then I’ve seen people referring to that scene and saying they too had no idea what jinx was implying, so it’s not outside the realm of possibilities
I don’t think she completely forgot about jinx, I think she just took a few moments to stop tormenting herself with blame and the need to always put others before herself. I was actually proud of her for doing so
Nah, Jinx's message was vague and the audience has the upper hand knowing more about Jinx than Vi.
Plus I feel like certain people are putting too much on Vi; considering Vi is broken and has had a shtty life but still tried to save her sister... and just couldn't do it. It's like people just want her to forever chase a lost cause.
I don't blame Vi for moving on, trying to save Jinx was a fool's errand because that's just Jinx's character. Vi offered to run away with Jinx (& leaving Cait behind) to save her and even broke her out of jail, but Vi kept getting back stabbed. Vi ended up in a prison cell twice because of her lol. But who opened Vi's prison cell twice? Caitlyn, and she's the best thing in Vi's life. So I don't blame her doing something good for herself for once. And then saving the world.
Ah yes, whenever there's need to justify a lesbian sex scene here there are the defenders for it. Jinx has pretty bad mental conditions and obvious tendencies to S-word (afraid my comment might get deleted geez). And Vi knows that. The normal human behaviour in this kind of situation is to be alarmed and intensely worried in regards of safety of your closest relative. However those who live in a fantasy pink-googles world would behave the way Vi and Cait did in this scene. There's no way a normal human would even consider banging someone in such circumstances.
This scene has no justification behind fan-service, since Catevi fans (sometimes with "-atics") really craved for it. Writers had no time to develop both Jinx and Catevi arcs simultaneously giving both enough time and explanation to develop, so they eventually mixed them up and it resulted in a mess
Don't forget, Vi was in prison for around seven years. Caitlyn knew this, and they still banged in a prison cell.
I agree with that
season 2 feels written by the fandom
Omg, yes. It's like fan fiction written by the actual writers of the show. It is so perplexing.
This is so true it hurts. The story feels more like I read a fan comic than watched an actually professionally written show.
for real.
Your point about them portraying lust rather than love actually perfectly embodies how I've been trying to describe my issues with CaitVi and pretty much any couple in the show. I don't think romance was ever this show's strong suit and it was a disservice that it started to become Vi's whole personality.
Thank you for this! There's a lot to love about S2, but ultimately I was so disappointed by it! My most prevalent thought was that I feel like i'm not getting the most out of this show because I don't and will never play LoL. I definitely think Mel was assassinated harder than Jinx or Vi, but given that she was a side character as opposed to the shows core focus characters, it was an easier pill to swallow.
Mel deserved better :( the Black Rose subplot should have been removed. It was so confusing as a non-league fan and part of what made Mel so interesting was her political sway and her intelligence but now she fights like everyone else. She also lost her beautiful white dress which was a crime lol.
@@MoonlightBrillance Also her whole outlook was finding her worth away from the place where her qualities and strengths were looked down upon, only to become what her family wanted and going back to it :/
@@bonthebunnycat667 So true. She "became the wolf" her mother always wanted her to be.
Low-key you lose nothing by being a lol player, I got like 5k hours in it and this entire show is completely separated from the characters
SO. there will be more "Arcane" just not set in Piltover. It will be Noxus. So while I didn't love Mel's stuff, it is set up for the next show. LOL released a new animation about Mel in Noxus called "bite marks".
As much as I loved season two, and even though it’s not as good as season one, I’d still say it was great, I felt frustrated too. Especially with Vi, who deserved to have her views, trauma, and character explored just as much as the others. Overall so many good setups were made in act 1, just to be rushed and leave us to fill in the gaps with implications and our imaginations. It’s a shame, really, and I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s frustrated about it all.
For me S2 is nothing short of a colossal failure. If S2 is any indication of the writing quality going forward then I'd wish they stop.
Same I dont want anything else. S2 had a great set up with s1 and they failed in every aspect. They wont even have that great set up for the next project, its going to be terrible through and through 😭
I was so sad when they stopped showing jinx's voices bc it js felt like they disconnected from her og plot. I also rly didn't like the last episode bc it was basically abt Jayce and Viktor and I ain't here for that 🫤 also, the last episode js seemed random nd kinda rushed the 1st time I watched it
28:05 Agreed. VI and Jinx started the show as THE central characters. Then VI became a sidekick. So did Jinx to some extent. Sad.
I thought it was just me that felt Vi was so off in season 2. She didn’t even act like herself half of the time and had a weird lack of impact on the plot. She kind of just served other people’s arcs or jumped from place to place which was slightly jarring bc a big aspect of her character (like you said) is that she’s stubborn 😭 The characterization was just not there all the way for her
Finally a video that helps me see clearer in the odd feeling S2 left on me. It's crazy that the fandom is allergic to any critique of the show, yes; it's visually stunning, Fortiche is amazing but good visuals can't save poor writing choices !!! i feel so bitter about most characters, they have lost depth and humanity
Literally
it's definitely not as bad as you make it out to be.. reading some of these comments you'd think the show was fucking dogshit, which it isn't
Season 2 was a music video montage
26:02
I heard somewhere that they were both supposed to die in the explosion, like you mentioned, and the gray coming up is their big finale, she wants a flamboyant outro to their big cycle, the sisters are dead.
But still I agree, I would kill for more explanation 😭😭
watching the first episode I immediately felt that vi just wasn't vi anymore. the thing that confuses me so deeply is that in season 1 Vi's character revolves fully around powder, her only motive and reason for living is protecting her sister. in season 2 she turns on her fully after Jinx bombs the council and sure Cait's mom was in it but a lot of people don't seem to take into account that Vi had already seen Jinx do awful things and despite that still loved her and still fought for her. she knew she killed firelights and innocent people via talking to Ekko, she watched her nearly kill Cait several times (the explosion on the bride and then holding a gun to her head) she watched her shoot Slico and kidnap her and Caitlyn both. Vi already knew Jinx was twisted but yet her final line in season one is "it's okay, we'll be okay." there is noooo way in hell Vi would realistically turn on Jinx as fast as she did. of course I knew that they would eventually fight, it was always destined by the intro and the general game lore but there needed to be a slower decent into Vi realizing she can't save her and more guilt shown as well not the hard turn which was clearly just lazy writing
Only 9 mins in but I 1000% agree-I was so charmed when Isha initially showed up, but I was confused when she kind of got relegated to be such a simplistic character. Jinx taking care of a child is such an interesting concept that was way over-simplified and Isha herself was done a character injustice in my opinion.
GOD, the timing of this video couldn't be better. I literally finished Arcane just a day ago, and felt the need to vent to at least someone this whole time, but, my goodness, there's completely noone in my social circle, who'd understand why I'd f_king break down in the middle of conversation. Thank you, truly thank you for this video. Now, I guess, I'm going to vent out "a little".
The main problem, is that I couldn't even believe what I just watched, as I said, I was watching Arcane after it ended, and I honestly couldn't believe that it ended. But it wasn't the same feeling as when finishing shows, you want more, because you loved characters and wanted to continue the story with them, and just couldn't let them go due to love. No. This time, compered to season 1, I was left conpletely shocked, dumbfounded and genuinely confused. Never before, after finishing a show, was I left staring in complete void in the darkness, not shocked by the events, but shocked that THIS is the way story ended. The amount of questions unanswered was driving me insane.
Starting of with an elephant in the room, the "Glorious evolution". Genuinely, I don't HATE it. No, but I don't dare to say that I'm satisfied with it. God, I love the way it was portraited. I loved the themes, topic, references and all. Especially the concluding question whether a life without any pain, any problems and any emotions could still be counted as a life at all. It was beatiful. But, I hate the way it was handled, even the timing felt off. I was surprised when it was introduced in ,like what?, half of the season?. I thought that after the 1 act, we'll be going into more deatailed analysis of grief, like Jinx's , through Caitlyn, and I was thrilled by this, but no. The moment I realised just how much screentime is now on this topic, it felt like a litteral slap in the face. And the worst part? It's that, the reason why I even fell in love with Arcane in the first place, characters, more importantly, character's growth, arcs and literally everything had to fight for the screentime with something that wasn't even supposed to be in this fight whatsoever.
Now, we've gotten to my main issue with this season. Characters
Actually, most of this would be centered mostly on Caitlyn, maybe because for me her arc was the most interesting, or given that her arc was the most confusing and when trying to analyse the characters I was having the most problems with it. But either way, I need to start this with my main thesis:
I believe, Caitlyn went through the most changes as a person. Or rephrasing it, Caitlyn's arc is packed with events. And I guess, "the blade cuts both ways"
As said earlier, I was expecting the show to get to the topic of grief and loosing someone, and coming with it guilt that if it wasn’t for you, and you just killed that one person THEN, all of this wouldn't be happening NOW. And ,my god, I was completely fine if they made Caitlyn into a villian, but I guess, with her character, I'd see her more of an antagonist. But, my point isn't only the way she was hadled in this season, it also how her season 1-self was almost conpletely brushed under a carpet. Like, what? I know, grief and guilt are strong emothions, they ARE able to completely change person. But, that won't erase s1 Caitlyn completely, the only scene in which she actually feels like herself is dialoge with Jayce. She grieves her mok, she hates Jinx, but she still loves Vi. And her single line that now she understands just how easy it is to hate after one wrong action, is what .ade me see her as complex. But, later, the only parts in which we now see her contradicting emotions are argues with Ambessa and Vi. And it felt okay, but it wasn't enough. Enough to forgive her. Enough to believe when she teams up with Vi. Enough to believe when she let Jinx go. I felt confused not only by the absense of character I once saw in s1, but also by just how drastically she can change in just one episode. And loved how you conveyed this in you video. Every change felt too fast, too sudden, too easy, and just too much. And we could have had just reasoned this whole problem with her mother's death. But no. Jinx's downfall was both written and handled absolutely perfect. Maybe I'm greedy too much, and asking for something completely impossible. But, just to think that that little British always fighting for justice altruistic pookie from s1 was poorly, harshly, hastily, roughle rushed into now,i believe, one of the most hated characters. And what's even worse is that this same pookie was the reason I even fell for Arcane, yes aside from story and drawing, I love Caitlyn, I even got to conclusion that she's my favorite character out of them all. And again, it hurts to think that most of this pookie is forgotten. But at least this was reasonable enough, after finishing the show this wasn't my main reason for tears anymore.
I agree with people saying that pacing wasn't the problem of this season, it's really close to season 1. But rather how the pacing didn't have as significant points as season1. Like, how you couldn't even tell when character changed, if they even did at all, or how this action changed the story, if it changed at all, etc. It didn't follow the sturcute old as time "action-reaction". Most of events just happen, and we don't get to see how those or theese character are reacting to it, or how it impacts the story. Or it's only one of this, either reaction or impact. For example:
1. The usage of The Grey. How it was handled? Jinx using that same ventilation to now paint the Piltover. Ok, later? How does it impact the story? Nope, we are going to forget it, forgive Caitlyn for this, and never bring it up.
2. Mel's captired by the Black rose. Reaction : none almost forgot about it while watching. Impact: now Mel knows how to use her powers, and she is now a magician.
And of course even worse scenario :
Caitlyn becomes the ruler of Piltover. Reaction? If you count the Zaun, it was more based over the whole revolution thing going there, and even then it was ,as i remember, I still haven't rewastched, just covering baners with paint, or that scene with Ambessa's guardian abusing Zaunite, that same guardian was the reason for people of Zaun to hate Piltover more. Impact? I think, we could have left this whole part of her arc and story won't be changed too much, actions would this be going even if Caitlyn still stated as just one of the enforcers, or it's just me who watched Arcane with my eyes closed. And again comparing her with season1. In the name of my fricking last braincell, Caitlyn had much more impact on the story. Heck, everyone of the main cast had more impact on the story! Just Caitlyn alone, freed Vi, saw Jinx, almost killed Jinx, brought up to the council the idea of living in peace with Zaun. Her main force in season 1 was to explore and answer numerous questions she had in mind, that's the reason of her investigation and all. I'm upset that just so mush was in too much. Either way, I'd still want to talk about this. And ,I guess, I'm free to discuss it.
I guess that's it. Honestly, it's the first time I'm leaving a comment under your video, and it's supposed to be kinda important moment. And genuinelly I want to thank you, creator, for letting my thought be heard under you video. Truly, thank you.
Thank you, for reading.
Pss, english isn't my first language so if do see gramatical or any other typo. Please tell me about, I want to become better in English, don't be afraid. Now. Bye👋
i personally loved this last season of arcane (i'm biased, i hold in my heart a special place for this series), but it was butchered by the run time. a third season would have arranged the storylines, their delevopment and their ending masterfully enough to conclude in a perfect way everything. but unfortunately that's not what happened.
characters like Mel deserved better than disappearing halfway through the season, to reappear in the last two episodes :/ (to be like a deus ex machina) [and her relationship with ambessa!!! they could have shown of them so much more, its such a waste its crazy.]
caitlyn that goes from being blinded by revenge and edged on by ambessa to commit heinous acts, to see Vi and fold immediately. zero development, zero satisfying redemption.
and especially the dynamic between vi and jinx (her ending made me so mad, even tho I loved her final scene with Vander) 💔 deserved for sure more space, since they were the "main protagonists"
1 season more and this show is masterpiece! Its sad its so fricking expensive honestly maybe they could have a less consumimg animation for the other series so they can developed them better :(
No, I thought it was JUST the pacing at first too, its not. The writers had every intention of throwing away their female leads in favor of uplifting the men in the story and making them the sole focus. One of the writers said the prison smash was “vi reclaiming her prison trauma”.. hello? wtf? These characters wouldve likely been butchered with or without another season
@@oi2715 oh i had no idea, omfggg. i didn't watch any interviews since arcane s2 came out, so I see I missed some crazy takes from the writers ☠️
Arcane did Vi SO dirty and not from becoming an enforcer at all they should've given more screen time for both Vi and Jinx
I don't know the lore of League of Legends but I'vr heard that she is an enforcer in the game, who was from Zaun but betrayed them... so I guess they just aimed at fitting a triangle into a square to make her become that. 😒
@@FlorV_007 Yes, Vi is an enforcer, but unlike this series: VI HAS AMNESIA, SHE DOESN'T REMEMBER ANYTHING AT ALL
I had issues watching season 2 and loving it as well. Don't get me wrong, best show ever and I love powder/jinx but vi just felt so passive the second season
GIRRRLL, this timing is INSANE, I was just watching you're other video where you praised the female writing in Season 1 and I was wondering if you could see through the hype of Season 2. Haven't watched the video yet but just the title just made me excited lmao (not excited cause you didn't like those aspects of Season 2, but happy to see how more people are slowly opening their eyes as to how much the sequel failed in, specially in regards to the sisters relationship which, was pretty much the heart of the first season. Keep up the good work!
i thnk season 2 great just as the fitst one but just my opinion and many opinion
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d And that's totally okay!
@@sofiayoung9660 then why are you want people to open they eyes more?are butthurt that majority love this season and see nothing wrong with it?you just that desperate to be right?
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d
Bruh, calm down :v I literally said that it's totally okay if you liked this season, you don't need to get defensive just knowing that there are people out there who (and trust me, we have our reasons).
First off, I don't know if it's the mayority or minority who didn't like the sequel (which honestly, I had seen more and more people coming forward, so, take it with a grain of salt) but that's really irrelevant to the conversation.
You can like a product, REGARDLESS if it's objectively good or bad, that has nothing good with your liking. Mainly my critique goes towards people (not you necessarily which honesly me sad, cause that makes me think, that media can throw whatever they product they want on their followers, and they are just gonna take it, no questions asked (and I cannot say this enough, it has NOTHING to do with your personal LIKING of the thing).
What’s funny is that you accuse me of being desperate, yet you get defensive that someone would DARE to critize a product that you like so much, and that’s part of the problem. The way that some fans have reacted when the rest of the community are just trying to share our thoughts into why we, objectively, really didn’t like how Season 2 turned out.
Is not about ‘being desperate to be right’, that’s petty and dumb. It’s about people having a more objective and being CRITICAL about the media they consume. You don’t have to agree, nobody is putting a gun in your head to move a muscle. Now, If you can like Season 2 despite recognizing its very obvious flaws (and I’m still not forcing YOU at all) that’s a discussion that would turn productive. just stating my point. For me personally, this Season was a total letdown.
If you would like to hear my thoughts and we can agree on disagree, we can totally have a conversation have a conversation can agree on disagree on the many points that made this season (and for so many more) the worst possible outcome. Though judging from your attitude, I don't think you're not gonna be that open minded from here on now, lol.
I thought that the focius of the show would be primarily Jinx and Vi / sister bonds, because that is how season 1 set it up. I'm not a writer, so I couldn't tell you what is wrong with the writing, but I do know that season 2 was not what I wanted or expected. As an older sister, Jinx and Vi's relationship was everything to me and I was so excited to have a sister bond at the forefront of such a large piece of media. I absolutely felt like it was pushed to the side and I was so disappointed! I also was a really big caitvi shipper after season 1 but found myself not giving a damn anymore when they had their romantic scenes because I was too busy worrying about how the sister dynamic was going to play out.
Specifically, I was so disconnected from Cait this season, and I was completely at a loss as to why Vi chose her over Jinx. After Jinx left Vi in the prison, I was so shocked when Vi immediately forgot"" about her to get with Cait?? I loved that you pointed out that we were missing a point of reflection and indecisiveness there, the theme of "choosing herself" was completely lost on me. I also hated it because Jinx said some VERY concerning things before she left, and I know that Jinx has hurt Vi, but as an older sister you would still go and stop her from killing herself. Idk, it was wild to me. 😭
yess im also older sister and i caitvi shipper but this ship this season was trash ,Cait hurt Vi too -dictator era ,Vi cared about zaun in s1 ,and cait hurt her home and her people,she likely killed many people cait in act 2 says -that she did COUNTLESS OPERATIONS and without Vi she likely didnt hold herself back ,i mean grayy hurt innocents based on musical montage,so she was way worse for sure during time skip ,cait was working with ambessa and casued war by leaving her side ,but ''JInx was a monster who needed to be seprated with Vi in end of s2'', xd JInx was just chilling woth isha in act 2 ,and she wanted to kill herself in act 3 because she believed she s irredimable (she was remorsful about her actions )and cait punched vi with A GUN ,vi was in prison for years and beaten by enforcers ,just to be beaten by her gf ENFORCER .Jinx and Vi broke cycle by forgiving each other and accepting themselves ,in ACT 2 .Even Vander and Silco are toghter in alternate world xd .Vi during pitfther era literally was destoyng herself cause of CAIT ,in scene she was shown to think mainly about Caitlyn(codopedency -hard on cait ),Vi learned to accept JInx and no nedding to protect her in act 2 ,in act 1 she learnt to let go of others by being ready to kill Jinx :)(i mean Jinx did awful shit and Vi was ready still be there for her but in s2 she suddenly wants to killl her xd ,lazy writing ,but still Jinx did bad stuff sho she diswoned her even though JInx is guilty of terrosim ,killing zaunties ,ekko's buddie ,trying to kill cait and ekko and her on bridge ,BUT SHE STILL ACCEPTED/LOVED JINX NOT HER ACTIONS ,but s2 comes and vi unconditional love goes brrrr),but still Vi shown to be able to lt go of JInx .Jinx should have stayed for good with Vi and heal with her and ekko ,forgivness and taking responsobility fo her bad actions,for example helping firelights of smth ,they accpted her anyway by act 3 ,thanks to Ekko ,Cait and Jinx are the same side of coin ,both hurt Vi and Vi forgave both ,Caitvi arent better /helthier that sisterhood between JInx and Vi is xd .i woukd have preffered sisters to go away BOTH from zaun/piltover togheter to same place ,since Cait barely had consquences for her cirmes and show burshed her actions over ,for example they gave maddie as traitor to make cait symphatic ,sure Cait fought in war ,but she caused so she had to ,for example not to be imrosined later :) cause she casued this by betraying ambessa ,sure she lost eye but she got Vi ehhhhhhhhhh,but JInx have no Vi and ekko now ehhhh ,s1 is superior by farrrrrrrrr
I truly believe each arc should have been 4 episodes because from the writers, they had to cut out so much for season 2 to fit the 3 episode marks, but we just lost so much character development from them doing. Also, sevika was supposed to have her own arc this season, but they cut it completely, and I'm offended by that
What was Sevika’s arc supposed to be? As someone who's always massive fan of her character (and was largely disappointed in her appearance in Season 2), this is something I'd really love to hear so I can get some closure with my feelings.
@DLxxx i don't think what her arc was going to be is out to the public. i just know that they cut out a lot of her scenes/development, which is why her arc is so disappointing and unfinished.
@@VictoriaCrissmanUgh.. Well at least I know there was something planned for her.. Though it just makes me frustrated as a long time fan of the character.
Well crap now I'm kinda upset because YOU ARENT WRONG- I liked the second season, I thought it was good, but I'll admit something was off. I think you definitely hit a few nails on the head with how they handled the battles. It should've felt like life or death vs a spectacle, and the nuances and things touched on season one should've carried, especially the bridge symbolism!!!
I ABSOLUTELY agree that ir was SOOOO unnecessary the multiverse time travel to the past thingy.
It seems to me it was used as a writting resource to fix the mess.
Honestly... like... no please. It could have been the story of Runaterra, piltover and Zhaun. Focus de second season on the main story and I think it would have turned out super, super cool.
you should be a screen tester because you explained the majority of my griped with the Vi and Jinx plotline in a much more eloquent way than I could've put it...
I read some comments online that said some writers of arcane season 1 were fired and if thats true, unfortunately you can tell. Season 2s writing is lacking in a couple different ways and even though its definitely not horrible its not great either, its almost as if the amazing writing of season 1 just vanished and now we have this just okay writing. Its frustrating to think about. Though I did enjoy season 2 and the ending made me cry, I hope the next spinoff show has as much passion and great writing as arcane season 1 did.
It's not just you. This season was rough. I was like..."Is this what people like?!"
I got to say I do thing they failed on character development for the sisters. Idk I just wish the story itself was better this season. The fast pace pace didn’t allow enough focus on there relationship
ugh if only s2 was as good as s1 ):
omg thank you for the likes (:
The most irritating thing is how much of the fanbase completely ignored the obvious red flags and showed a complete lack of understanding for how TV shows like this are made.
Season had around 6 years of development, and around 3 years into production, underwent major rewrites after initial screenings were poorly reviewed due to it being to plot centric instead of focusing on the characters. In other words, season 1 had all the time in the world to cook, had multiple humbling test audiences, and the freedom to rewrite it's story as much as it needed to in order to become the masterpiece that it is (arguably one of the greatest stories this generation). It didn't even start full blown animation until the back half of production.
Season 2, by comparison, had a mere 3 years to be written and animated. Whole normally 3 years is a lot of time, it's obviously not enough to reach the level of polish of Season 1. And in the midst of Season 2's production, Riot decided to make it the new official League cannon. Which meant it had to support the weight of it's own story, and the larger universe (hence why Noxus and the Arcane overtook the entire conflict). S1 had the freedom to be an adaptation that could keep and disclude whatever it wanted.
Also, S2 had the weight of fan expectations behind it, and unfortunately, the show makers buckled to this as well. They saw how well received the music was at the end of Act 1, 2, and 3, and decided that for S2, they were going to have a moment like that IN EVERY EPISODE. Completely destroying the impact of the music altogether (the most egregious example, to me, being how they turned Vi vs Warwick into a horribly underwhelming slide show in order to, presumably, "save time."
And yet everyone kept saying the show was going to be "even better than season 1?" Huh???
There was also a shocking lack of flashbacks this season, and the two were got were so poorly implemented (I like Vander's, but it should have been longer, and focused on different things, like his actual falling out with Silco, instead of being a freaking music video).
@@DLxxx my god all you do in this comment section is to cry about a show you didint understand you probably got roasted in others spaces for you bad takes thats why you run for your safespace here so no one can critic you opinions
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d "no one can critic you [sic] opinions" You could. But I guess you're more interested in just being insulting.
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d No, we understood the show. That's why we're critiquing it.
No this video is gonna get debunked LMAO and I'm gonna have a wonderful time watching this video get shitted on@@chrishaven1489
The only thing i disagree with is that Jinx WAS a villain. She was my favorite character, but she was a mass murderer that killed people for fun and made jokes while doing it. She found it entertaining, even funny, to kill people. She strapped a fake bomb to a guy giving her advice to make him think he would die purely because she thought it was funny. She painted "HAHAHA" on things she wanted her victims to see. Honestly, people compare her to Harely Quinn, but she was one bad day away from being the Joker.
S2 toned her waaaaaaaay down.
When they said they had this story prepared for 2 seasons, I think that is simply a lie. I think the only one that had the story somewhat sketched in his head, was the showrunner Christian Linke. If you look at IMDB writing credits, other than the 2 showrunners, only Amanda Overton gets credit for "story by" for 4 episodes in season 2. Other than that, the rest of the writers of season 1 get credit in the "story by" only for season 1.
I also think that season 1 would have looked much like season 2, if Riot wouldn't have intervened and forced Linke to hire the writers for season 1 (admitted in the Bridging the Gap documentary). So Christian Linke is simply not good enough as a writer to write a story at the level at which professionals did in season 1.
There are tons of problems with s2, but I just wanted to point out how dumb Maddie as a character was. She literally had no influence on the plot, if you remove her from the story it wouldn’t change anything. And then they reveal that she’s evil and kill her 2 seconds later??? I genuinely cannot think of a reason why the writers put her in the show, other than they just needed a 5th body for Caits riot squad.
Her being a Noxue spy for Ambessa was such a cool idea. I wish that they expanded more on that just a little.
I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO! Yeah, I stayed up to watch the last act of s2, and I was so angry. I was so mad they threw away major plot points, and left holes in the story. Plus, many things felt so unearned. Ugh.
Season 1 was beautiful and an eternal, timeless masterpiece, and everything I reanalyze about it makes season 2 even more disappointing. The themes were abandoned and the characters are underwritten for a nonsensical plot that doesn't make coherent or consistent sense, especially for what we were presented with in season 1.
On the topic of Jinx having influenced Isha, therefore causing her death: I think due to the fact Isha doesn't speak and has a lack of characterisation, people forget that she is a very young child. If a child around the age of 5 or 6 concludes she should attempt to sacrifice herself in a very real battle against a huge beast for the sake of the adults around her, then the adults have done something wrong here. A child shouldn't be influenced to do that or learn that, they should be protected from ever thinking that's something they should do or an option they have. The show depicts this as losing a comrade in battle, and not a literal young child committing suicide. If Isha was written as a realistic child it would be more plausible for her to be terrified, seeking protection, rather than having these complexities the show gets away with writing her to have because her lack of characterisation makes the audience forget how young she is. Sure she has grown up in zaun, a brutal upbringing I'm sure, though for the last lot of months (as a guess) she's been isolated from the world for the most part, hiding away with Jinx
It’s like, this could have been something. How Jinx just became Silco 2.0 and destroyed the person they cared about (very tragic) but it’s just all kind of surface level stuff. Tropey. I have always said this about Viktor and his plotline at the end of season one, so I’m obligated to point out that the writers have always had this problem, even if it didn’t show as much in season one. Disappointed but not surprised.
i think the whole problem with this show is very telling when you read the interviews and find out the main reason they wrote vi and jinx’s parents dying in the bridge by enforcers was to bring more drama into vi’s romance with caitlyn. everything appealing when it came to class divide and police brutality literally was done for drama, which is insanely disappointing
ohhh shut up. is this real? because that's extremely sad :/ they bamboozled us into believing they understood about class division and violence in the first season 😭 so they could have spicier drama i
which interview??
@@mim_mimm yep, puts everything into perspective, doesn’t it?
It'd be fascinating to watch the writers of Season 2 fundamentally misunderstand their own story if it didn't piss me off so much.
this video is great. it almost completely explains why i found it so disappointing.
also, the way they handle suicide is in SUCH poor taste. i can't really put it in words but the framing around Jinx sacrificing herself for Vi like an hour after she was actively committing suicide... it puts an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. fans' responses to it have absolutely not helped the issue as well.
one of my few complaints of season 1 was it felt a bit flippant about characters being suicidal and attempting suicide.
yea i really hated that every character we saw attempt suicide in season one killed themself this season. Jayce and Viktor and Jinx, they all tried to directly kill themself, and then get the fucking.. ‘heroic justified suicide’ ending.
thank you!! I love the visuals and the music of S2 (also all the jayvik stuff lmao), but the story was such a let down... unfortunately common for netflix
Lmao of course it's the JayVik. Too bad they got nuked for plot .
I would have liked to see more of sevika and her development after silco's death. Being able to see how she understands Vander's actions, how she becomes the leader of Zaun and part of the council, seeing her be at peace with Vi, her perspective on the Noxus invasion of Zaun in search of Jinx, seeing her pain after the death of Jinx. . Maybe if Vi's fighting pit arc had been explored more, Sevika could have gone to talk to her at some point asking for help. Maybe see them for once fight together during the final battle instead of each other. At least some final conversation or something. Maybe after Ekko saves Jinx she tells Sevika that she has to be the leader that Zaun needs or something to understand how Sevika gets to have a seat on the council and how Zaun appears in the war at the end.
THANK YOU, vi was waayyyy too calm with jinx's bomb/powders death, we didnt get much besides her drinking in the street. the effects of the season 1 finale werent followed up all that well :/ She was never the character I fixated on, but i do agree that she was done dirty!!! They definitely needed at least another season, maybe two, in order to tell the story they wanted to tell
... I just realized that Ambessa never noticed that Mel got kidnapped by the Black Rose _because she was so tunnel-visioned on protecting Mel from the Black Rose with hextech._ If this was S1 Arcane I would have thought it was a clever deconstruction of the flaws in Ambessa's philosophy. In S2 tho, it looks more like the writers forgot that Ambessa should care about Mel because she's babysitting Caitlyn?
Ambessa's whole character was screwed up. She's supposed to love her family above all else. She sacrificed Kino to keep Mel safe! Yet she has no reaction when her daughter (and only remaing family) explicitly disowns her in the final battle? If her goal wasn't to lose Mel, then she failed. And yet I can't tell if she even cared at that point, lol.
Literally League ruined it.
They should have separated Arcane from League and not bother tying their lore together
Unfortunately, more than half of all of season 2's story wasn't even part of League's lore. a lot of stuff in S2 was new/original
@@bearfriend1 True, but they also have to tie things up with the existing lore and provide set ups for the future.
Everything Riot does for last several years in terms of lore is doing a lot of set up and marketing material for their franchise, so they could tell more stories through TV shows, comics, etc
This is all a build up to their MMO, everything in my mind points to that. Now they have to tighten up their timeline and have other Runeterra regions shown too before that. Arcane set up Noxus to be next on the line, and maybe a bit of Ionia.
yea, their desperation to make the lore the same instead of separate is *also* ruining league too. i mean, i cannot believe they got rid of basically all of league viktor’s story.
@@citruscirrus5607 Rewrote*
@@VlNCEY lmao it’s not rewritten, it’s just fully forgotten.
also just wanna say . that having a character with a history of being abused by cops. and then proceeding to have her be HIT by her love interest, WHO IS A COP -is just sososososoeo awful to me and distasteful
The way Cait hits her with the buttstock of the gun too.. That’s a _real_ way police can choose to knock you out.
The worst part is that the scene would have been just as impactful if Cait DIDN'T do that. Like she didn't need to. They could have just had them argue, and then Cait could repeat Vi's "water and oil" statement and leave her
Also said cop didn’t even apologized to her and proceeds to rail her in the jail cell of her sui*idal sister
@@user-ye6fp7kl1o EXACTLYYY
@@kosaiie9630 the sex scene is a WHOLLERR other issue like oh my god😭
if arcane had 3 seasons it would’ve added so much necessary context and better developed the story, problem is that simply wasn’t possible.
it’s not like they hire actors and film with cameras, this is HAND DRAWN, ANIMATED film. fortiche claims one second of film could take a day for an animator to create.
it’s for this exact reason i struggle to nitpick about the story, because yes! so many characters needed more time, but the overall direction of s2 made sense for me.
at the beginning of s1 we see the foreshadowed fate of piltover, and at the end of s1 we see the upcoming involvement of noxus, these two events imo highlight how the show is bigger than what we might expect.
i think the fact that s2 gets messy, out of hand, and is so overwhelming makes sense considering everything that has happened and is happening is chaotic and out of hand. people are losing the plot, losing their morals, losing all of themselves and that is the point of arcane.
arcane from day 1 has been set out to depict a tragedy. name one happy scene… QUICK. we are mere witnesses to the tragic events that unfold infront of us. yet DESPITE THIS, imo most of the main characters stories were concluded either accurately to their LoL counterpart, or in consideration to the character and its role in the show:
-> jayce and viktor got lost in the sauce after creating and abusing hextech (both in their own ways), after creating something so destructive and dangerous, they decide to destroy it together. very poetic doomed scientists ending.
-> jinx causes so much harm to zaun and piltover, to a point where she becomes unredeemable. the only way for her to grow is to leave, so she does! jinx was a result of her environment and she has to ability to start a new life for herself which is deserved considering she had a lot of growth and is no longer the extreme anarchist she was in s1.
-> vi ends up with caitlyn, in piltover and will most likely work with her to protect both piltover and zaun. she is a fighter and seeks justice and vi can start doing some good while being with someone who fundamentally understands her and mirrors her ethics, beliefs and morals. caitlyn steps down from the council and gives her seat up to sevika to probably do more investigative work with vi.
-> ekko doesn’t really get an ending, despite being the only reason their universe was saved, this is just straight up tragic, but he is alive and has the willpower to continue growing his community and protecting others.
-> mel‘s ending is just the beginning of her new role
i think all of these characters are important so to criticize the show in ‘sidelining the main plot’ of vi and jinx and to focus on other characters is kind of strange because riot NEEDED to include as many plot lines for as many characters as possible, and they did their best with what they were working with (time/resources/budget)
I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time, if all of these conclusions aren't done well, what's the point? These things still could've been achieved, but if the show focused more on the sisters, we would've gotten well rounded arcs rather than the characters making abrupt and confusing choices. At the core, this show was ALWAYS about Jinx and Vi. To stray from its core, the show had nothing as a foundation, which is why all the plotlines got so messy.
@dandelions_are_coolWell said. You can't remove the backbone of a narrative this dense, then make it carry even more burdens (like unnecessary plotlines), and expect it not crumble under it's own weight.
i partly disagree with your take. you have some points, the thing is the execution isn't that great. I can see how what you said makes some sense, but the lack of development to get there makes their choices jarring, not in the cool, planned way you imply. i think the writers fumbled the story a bit (i get the money and time restraints), possibly because they had to wrap everything up in just 9 episodes. but the inclusion of new, unnecesary characters and the focus on storylines that don't connect to our main one satisfyingly (the black rose) take away from the time we could have spent developing characters in order for their ending to make sense. idk
and did they have to sideline the sister's plot that hard? DID they have to sideline Vi THAT hard so that what we do get of her s2 emo arc is cramped in a music video, and it has no longlasting impact?
i don't think a half assed setup for future media was needed in detriment to this particular story :/
Less episodes are not the only problems with Season 2.
@dandelions_are_cool i do agree that vi and jinx’s story was rushed, and they forgave too easily at times. but idk how else they would’ve gone about it. like genuinely im curious to know how you think their story should’ve gone
genuinely feels like they tried too hard to force the ships fans wanted to happen and all the writing suffered for it.
Jinx used to make me nervous every time she was on screen. Not in season two.
Facts, we knew she was going to crash out at a moment's notice 😂
3:58 Id like to point out here, that Jinx DOESN’T say “Jinx is dead” simply because she met Isha. Jinx does and says this, because she planned for her own story to end at the finale of ep 3. We know this because she says things like “this isn’t how it’s supposed to go” when Sevika manages to flick the switch and release the gray. What Jinx originally wanted was for her to die a hero, releasing the gray into Piltover as a contribution to the revolution, as a final thanks to Silco before she died. The reason she wanted to die doing it is simply because she doesn’t have anything left to fight for, the one pushing for revolution and a purpose for Jinx (Silco) is gone now and her sister (Vi) has turned against her. However, Isha ended up saving her and Jinx found herself still alive afterward. Her reaction? She decided to ignore her survival and acted like she did die (kinda) by saying “Jinx is dead” and living the rest of her life (well she knew it wouldn’t last but that lead into the whole other act) enjoying her time with the one person who felt her life was still worth saving even when Jinx felt it wasn’t, Isha.
Now I know this is just one problem and there’s a lot more in the rest of the video, but I would like to say that a rushed story doesn’t ruin the actual story. It ruins one’s perception on the story. Now, it’s definitely certain that season 2 was greatly rushed, but that doesn’t mean it was ruined. Imagine a rushed show like watching a video on 2x speed, everything is still there, you just don’t catch it all. That doesn’t make it the audiences fault, far from it. It just means that not everything will make complete sense while watching the show (which really sucks and is why I also like S1 way more). But when someone (this is aimed at people in the comments I don’t know what the video fully says) to say it’s now terrible and poorly written and completely ruined the whole show? It’s because they didn’t slow it down and truly take in everything the story has. Again, not saying it’s the audiences fault, I’m just saying there’s still beauty in there that wouldn’t be caught at first glance. Thank you so much for taking the time to read all that, I truly just felt the need to defend one of my favorite shows.
THANK YOU
I hate the "Jinx is dead" idea entirely. The overarching arc of season 1 was if she was Powder or Jynx, with the ending having her choose Jynx! Silco's final words being the encouragement to be Jynx. Then in S2 she's not sure who she is, like that wasn't what s1 was about!
@@OuterCraft the jinx is dead trope isn’t about jinx not knowing who she is, it’s her disliking the idea of Jinx and who she has become
@SavageSam42 And then they don't do anything with it. She does become a symbol, has the whole scene with the prison break. IMO season 2 should have had more of dictator Caitlyn versus liberator Jynx. Instead they dropped fascist Caitlyn and anything to do with Zaun liberation pretty fast and Jynx doesn't do very much or act very Jynx-like. Her schizophrenia pretty much disappeared, she was predictable, and they have her a kid to take care of just to kill off and never mention again
It’s so hard to criticise a show like Arcane because the animation is so good. They were hung up on fan service and inserting unnecessary plot lines like the great evolution and the black rose. Yes, it provided great opportunity for animation but the heart of this show was always the two sisters. They should’ve focused on their development and writing.
I see this pattern on a lot of big franchises (like Marvel and GOT). I just wasn’t expecting to see it in Arcane since it’s only two seasons and season one was highly praised for its writing, with same level as the praise for its animation.