Exactly … agree completely. I can appreciate everything from a $25 Casio to $10K Panerai. Love my beater Citizen just as much as some of the more expensive stuff. 👍🏻
You’re absolutely correct. A true watch enthusiast will appreciate a Casio F91W-1 as much as a Patek Philippe Nautilus, buy whatever makes you happy irrespective of price, brand, heritage, etc. Don’t worry about what other people think of your watches.
God came down in flesh on Christmas Day in the form of Jesus. The king of kings came down from his throne , to be born in the humblest way , in a literal feeding trough, to bring peace for all. That is peace with God. Because of our sins, and Gods character being Holy, we have been separated from God, due the wages of our sins which is death. But Jesus lived a perfect life , yet chose to die on the cross, to pay our debt. He gives us this gift, when we choose to follow him. Don’t wait another day. Hell is for eternity. I say this from a place of love, not condemnation .
I really appreciate what you explained in the video. It tells a lot about why I refused to buy a new shiny Hamilton Khaki, and instead, I found a competent watch repairer that fixed the Khaki my grandfather used since the beginning of World War Two. I have spent two times the price of a new watch, but on my wrist, I have the history of my family, the history of the society I live in now, the history of the ones who believed in freedom and fought for it at the risk of their lives. I want to be the one that does not contribute to producing yet another 20 years watch. I want to be the one who will pass a piece of the history of my family and the world to my son. Thank you ever so much for sharing.
I agree with a caveat. Inexpensive watches allow collectors to experience a lot of variety, enabling them to develop preferences, dislikes, etc, without breaking the bank. Buying that inexpensive ST19 watch today, for instance, might lead to a Nevada Grenchen, Longines, or Breitling chrono tomorrow. I think that’s a net benefit to the Swiss watch industry.
My introduction to automatic watches was an Invicta 8926OB with the NH35 movement. I liked it for the way it looked. I didn't know it was an homage to the Rolex submariner. That was about 15 years ago. It's still part of my collection. Not 1 service, still running strong. Still looks awesome. 😮
@@turnbasedtoddy7664 Cheaply made doesn't mean cheap. Some thousand dollars watches have cheaper movement/poorly made movements than a Seiko who is dedicated at making watches last.
@RadicallyGreen 100% A lot of the Chinese Brands use Japanese Movements, I own a few with seiko Movements, when they fail, I'll just replace the Movement.
I have a quartz "rolex" obviously not genuine, it is from Bali, given to me 12 years ago by a dear friend as a "I'm thinking about you, you will see the humour in it" ( ten year watches at work were cancelled six months before I was due). it still works perfectly.. it cost 5 bucks
To equate ownership of luxury level watches to owner satisfaction is erroneous. There are a multitude of quality watch brands that cost a fraction of what overpriced, overhyped Rolex and/or Tudor charge/cost. I think the funniest thing about those people wanting to only wear luxury watches rarely have two nickels to rub together and wear that level of watch as a “flex”. Me personally don’t need a $20,000 watch on my wrist to show my worth or level of success.
People look at the watch hobby as a “collecting hobby” but I really think this hobby is more about the experience a few watches can give you. I envy one-watch enthusiasts they get the most amount of experience in one watch.
@@WatchesCanBeFun As a daily buyer of watches, touching entry level to high end watches, there is a middle ground. Once you see high horology and what exists out there, your experience will kick in and you will remark that a Seagull is badly integrated into the case of a Underd0g. There are huge gaps on the back of the watch if you have an experienced eye. If you look at the finishing of movements, cases, bracelets, you will always remark that Seiko or Grand Seiko is not always perfect, far from it. Doesn't remove anything to their respective qualities but am sorry, a cheap disposable DW watch is not going to give you "chills" or "thrills" wearing it. It is a 20$ watch marketed 20x it's cost from China. It is not horology. A collections tends to aim for the best, the very best you can afford, I know many people with a 1 watch "collection" and are very happy, yet some need a change every 2 weeks or add something new every month.... You will end up spending a lot of money on both high end or low end watches without much thought process. My video is about this: think if you need it, what you need it for, buy the best possible watch for your respective budget and begin enjoying.
I couldn't agree less. You can get an NH35 serviced if you really want to, but it doesn't make sense when they are so cheap to replace. Maybe the real 'insult to watchmaking' is the mass production processes that enable these movements to be produced so inexpensively, but as the other commenter said, that sounds like gatekeeping. For me, these movements have been my introduction to watchmaking. They are cheap enough to tinker with, so I have had fun building my own watches. I would never have been able to be anything but a passive consumer if it wasn't for these inexpensive movements.
@thepenultimateninja5797 if we didn't have mass production (even mid tier luxury movements are there days), there would be no watches. You need entry level pieces to get people started.
I have been collecting for just over two years, and recently I decided to not buy any more watches costing under $1,000, due to the cost effectiveness of servicing in the future.
@@willelliott5052 You grow fond of watches you wear and become nostalgic. I meet tens of people yearly that want their leather band replaced. More than often the companies made a weird strap that is discontinued or has to be custom made. The cost of that is often the price of a new similar watch (sub 500 used models) and since people are attached, they are ready to spend on that repair. I am often telling them that the strap will outmatch the watch but some still do it. Most haters on this topic have no experience at all and think I am snobbing that portion of the industry. Which is contrary, trying to inform them based on my daily shop experiences.
Just keep in mind that in 20-30 years there won't be any watchmakers around in most parts of the world. Any quartz solar is a better deal if you want just a watch. But anyhow, buy what you like and wear what you like
That’s a bit like suggesting you won’t be able to have an auto mechanic service a combustion-powered vehicle in the next 20-30 years, just b/c electric-power has been widely-embraced. That said, the experienced watchmaker shortage you’ve alluded to is REAL. I believe the powerful conglomerates like Richemont and the Swatch Group should build an intercontinental satellite school network and actively recruit (and even employ) our next generation of watchmakers to service all new and vintage pieces (call it a “side-hustle”).
@MrKwan007 The Swatch and Richmond groups are already working on recruiting and training more watchmakers as well as the Glashütte brands. The problem is that there is far more people retiring in that field than signing up for training. Unlike the automotive Industry the roadblocks to become an avid technician are way harder to overcome. I also don't think you'll be able to service a carburetor in most workshops 10-20 years from now.
@@melonlord951 Agreed. The solution however, is to reframe the position (or career field) itself. Many who comprise the “hipster” talent pool need to feel like they’re “making the world a better place” and studies suggest that Gen Zers are often passionate about so-called “green jobs.” As we all know, well-maintained mechanical watches can outlive a plastic quartz piece by decades…and that means fewer non-biodegradable batteries and plastic cases in our landfills. So there you go! 🪄 Problem solved 😏
I bought the new tudor black bay 58 GMT recently as a treat. My other watches are cheaper and homages and love them. Why? Because i cannot afford to buy many expensive watches. Simple really. And i like them all.
As I grow in this hobby, the more I detest disposable watches. I bought 3 Chinese watches so far, all of them failed and none lasted more than 2 years. I want my watches to go to my grandchildren someday, that means I'm choosing quality watches only.
I just learned Watermelon originally isn't a toy watch from Aliexpress which is how it appeals to me. I could imagine it for a kid or aging lady when they want to colors like they are kids again. I'm sorry if I insulted anyone or owners of this watch especially, I just believe watch should be a practical piece able to keep time and look good without resorting to tricks of using fancy dial, omitting battons or digits, omitting dial at all and other cheap tricks meant to provoke emotional response based on absurdity when look dominates function.
I don’t really understand. If someone can spend £500 on the watch surely they’ll be fine to spend £500 to service it every 5 years? £100 a year is not that big a deal. Can’t imagine anyone throwing these away.
I Bought Sinn 556 (with SW200-1) from AD at the start of year, very rough action of movement and some time even helicopter rotor happens. Sent for warranty repair action of movmenet improved but not alot.
@@chosearmandoarmando3864 Sometimes you get a lemon even with 300k $ watches. There are some expectations to be had from a Sw200 though. Workhorses but limited accuracy
Yeah, but the sw200 isn't relevant to what this video is about. That's a highly serviceable movement. Any watch maker in the world will be able to service it for a reasonable price.
Good follow up and great job clarifying what you wanted to say in your first video which honestly was a far cry from this one. The vintage pieces were absolutely beautiful and there's a lot to be said for a watch that may outlive you and be passed on and appreciated. I haven't paid any attention to vintage though the watches I've collected so far are basically traditional styles and watch faces, as well as brands, which may make my collection a little boring to some but you have definitely shown me how truly beautiful those vintage pieces can be. Good stuff!! Oh, and since I'm watching this on my 65-in TV, I almost spit my coffee out when you specifically showcased my comment. I don't know if that's bad or good. Especially at 65 in!! 😅
There’s no shortage of affordable watches that will easily last over a decade these days. And most of us buy watches for the joy of watches, not as investments in a couple of brands
I agree with much of what you say around the craftsmanship of horology, and I absolutely respect your views, unfortunately there are two sides to everything. My collection of watches includes a vintage Seiko, a Tissot, various small brands watches and homages, as well as a vintage 7017/0 which I hadn’t worn for nearly 40 years and recently serviced. However, links for the 7836 strap are not available so cannot be maintained, and the glass with magnifier is no longer either (although they had one). My point, whole watches cannot be maintained over long periods. I have a speedy homage, which cost £90, a real Speedy costs £10,000, for these prices, I could replace the homage 20 times, and have several other watches to wear for the cost of a single speedy. I like and respect quality and manual watches, but I love watches and like to have choices. £100 here and there is spendable, £10,000 upfront is not - if its not affordable, it doesn’t happen.
@@timemerchantsmtl your videos are very good and informative but they can come across as a little judgemental. I am curious, I love the watches and have style preferences. If I could afford Omega’s, Tudors and Rolexs, I’d buy them but unfortunately I don’t, so I buy what I can afford as I’m sure many people do.
@@timemerchantsmtl I will revisit the strap query as the AD told me the the folded links for the 7836 is no longer available. They did say other 20mm oyster straps were available but I’d like to keep the original, and I only really need one of two links which is a little frustrating.
I own the watermelon and I think the movement is very serviceable and the watch itself is worth less than a Rolex servicing :) plus I like it much more than a Rolex design wise.
@@MrVitamincpp Yes, from the design point of view it is incredible, I just find the integration in the case, especially from the back a bit underwhelming. For the price it is super good, just that with a bit more attention the Seagull movement would have exposed in a more favourable way. There seems to be a hige gap all around the movement when you have the watch on hand. Otherwise it is good in every way and their collab with Moser is 👍.
Hasn't that Seagull movement been around for ages? These are disposable watches. A completely different market than the more prestige brands. Nobody buys this with the idea of it being a collectors item. If someone wants to swap out the movement 10-15 years it is because the watch means something personal to them.
@@Black_Cat_997 The problem is that a proper watchmaker will charge you just as much to work on a Seagull as on a Valjoux 22-23-92-72 or Landeron or Venus 178 for example. I am against throwing movements away instead of fixing them but these are sadly not economically repairable when time comes.
I agree but also not. With your logic you’re tying watch buying too much to the monetary value vs servicing cost, meaning you’d never really buy a watch under $1000. When honestly the biggest thing is to just enjoy what you’re wearing, screw the rest. If you wear your $300 watch for 10 years happily, that’s a win. When you’re dead you’re dead. A vintage watch service interval recommendation is approx every 5 years. Unless you’re lucky with a local watchmaker, getting any service done through Rolex is costing about $1000 nowadays when all is said and done. Is that really a good investment? No, watches aren’t investments. You’d be better off buying a ‘fun’
@@nintendokings Of course will always think of the long term. I think of long lasting items, like a Japanese knife.... you buy once and for ever. The only upside of the knife, you can sharpen it yourself on a stone, a watch, not much you can do because it is a precision instrument and it needs care from a professional. This watch industry used to be very humble, most of watchmakers locally were very very poor in general and did their best to serve customers, customers who often had 1 watch that they bought to last a lifetime. That's why Rolexes and most Omegas are worn down, polished, some serviced 25-30x so far. The mentality was around holding that one precious quality watch for a long period of time. This is what I am showcasing on my channel. You can buy a 300$ watch. Just that the industry changed so much that in that range of price most of them are not meant to be repaired and long lasting. I, and ALL the second hand dealers are into recycling, giving a second life to watches. A lot more used watches change hands now than ever before. I am resisting the temptation of going for the easy market of Rolex, Omega and AP like most dealers that actually REALLY SNOB the lower end, sub 5-10k part of the 2nd hand market. I was watching a few RUclipsr Dealers who talk about IWC and Zenith like if they were trash. To them, they are just because they can't make huge margins therefore talking these brands down yet they are among the top 10 brands that marked the industry in the past century. Love and wear whatever. Just wear it/them with the consumer's knowlege of what you are buying. I am biased towards watches that are meant to last, and yes, that comes at a price. You can't buy luxury for 20$. The market is designed in such a way that if you want anything of quality, long lasting and passed down, it will often cost you. A lot.
@ tooting your horn that you’re not a “REAL SNOB” like most of your colleagues who shit on great cheaper brands is hardly a flex.. Buy what you like. If you like watches that last long that’s great, there’s something to be said for it. But (and not just saying this to you) just buy your nice watch and stfu with the preaching. Most of your implied points are easily torn down. - better ‘investment’? As said: a vintage Rolex serviced with Rolex can quickly cost you $1000 every 5 years. But congrats you have a 34mm Rolex now? Hardly worth preaching about the false economy of cheaper watches. - environment? Don’t get me started. Unless you buy one pre-owned watch without postage it’s just virtue signalling. WWF categorises Rolex and watches in general as one of the worst sectors. No serious environmentalist owns lots of luxury watches. - they last long = good value. Idk, I have a Casio Oceanus and a GS quartz for example, I have no doubt they will last very long even unserviced, and a lifetime if I service them. Good quartz watches are more robust than mechanical. - pass on to the next generation? This is also a newer concept and wasn’t part of the industry of old you speak of. And honestly, rather than hand down a crusty old watch in 40-50 years when we’re dead, that needs servicing every 5 years, I guarantee you most would rather receive a big pile of 40-50 years of S&P500 compounded money. Are wrist watches even going to be trendy in 40+ years? Inheritance is an extra, but it being a legit selling point is just Patek marketing. - philosophical aspect of buying things that last, regardless of financial rationality? Sure, I can see that especially when buying one watch. Counter argument would be that nothing last and everything was designed with an expiry date, from the things around you to the sun and the universe. Philosophically I’d rather embrace death as part of life. Anyway, I agree that people should be informed that a $500 watch with ST19 isn’t something that will last a lifetime. But I think most people buying them know this, especially when buying enthusiast brands like Studio Underdog. Lower-end Swatchgroup with Powermatic 80 and such are more of a trap if you ask me. But then again, they are decent watches that last fairly long, so just buy and enjoy if it’s what you want.
True in part. I find myself buying on impulse and a year later regretting it. I could have saved that money for a nicer, higher quality time piece. Ending up with a box full of cheap watches, money wasted.
@sailor123ize Yes, but now you've really distilled features and usability and know exactly what you're looking for. Had you dropped $20k up front and realized now that there are other watches you like more, you made a huge mistake. You bought the watch you wanted before you knew what you wanted.
Seperate pt to my other comment. I agree that findinf a reputable A D that you trust , to buy from and also use for service / repairs is the way to go. I really like vintage omegas for eg but know hardly anything about them..are parts orginal, is the movement workinf well etc. And id be a lot more comfortable buyin from a dealer i trusted than trying my luck directly..to save a few dollars
Studio Underdog was a pretty good example. Absolutely a brand people talk about on the internet now, and will be embarrassed to wear in 5-10 years because of how silly the Gen1 models actually are.
Wait.. did this guy just say you wont be able to service a seagull movement??.... what the hell is he talking about? It's going to be just a serviceable as any other movement. Cheap is a relative term. Just because a watch doesn't cost multiple thousands of dollars doesn't mean its a cheap watch. Don't waste too much money on jewelry.
@@brockadcock2735 Can you service a Seagull? Sure. The movement is 125-150 USD online. Not one Quality watchmaker will open, clean, oil and lubricate, reassemble for less than the value of that movement (3.5-6h job). My watchmaker charges me 400+ USD for chronographs. It is the same job to do a valjoux 72 as a Seagull. Not same values at all, not same quality either. Even in Europe small shops charge 250-600€ to do similar jobs. The time it takes is the same. Therefore: you throw the movement away and buy a new one at 125-150. No one will agree to pay 2.5-4x the price of servicing it versus replacing. It is economically not viable. Most of times the entire watch containing the Seagull costed less. It becomes a throw-away watch.
I've been assuming that the prevalence of that Sea Gull movement ensured it's serviceability (more likely replacability) for at least the next decade, if not longer. Is that not a fair assumption?
@@myownbiggestfan We never know, as far as repairing them, in the Western countries the labour cost is not effective therefore more easy to replace than repair, which is a bit sad to do. The production process may last an other 50 years if there will still be a demand for the product, but I hope that they will see the value in producing, upgrading the quality of what they do as many independents in China can produce exceptional movements. I hope it will eventually lead to that because of the experience of manufacture.
Ive bought a few expensive watches and they failed. My exclusive Meistersinger limited edition is at the repair shop for months and my Rolex marriage watch broke within days of getting it. Stick to £50 watches. Pagani make beautiful watches. I would rather have 10 £50 watches than 1 expensive watch I’ll get bored of.
Well made San Martin will be just as durable as anything in the long haul, please don’t kid yourself. BTW - if you want to save the planet, don’t upgrade your IPhone.
As you explained if the service is gonna cost more than buying a new similar watch or movement it makes no sesne to get it serviced..unless it has sentimental value. Your ibv in a diff situation as you can fix them yourself instead of paying top $ for rhe work. Not everyone can afford to buy 15k watches . I agree re rhose underdog watches. Silly novelty watches that youd wear maybe once or twice ..
@@Fred-rg5vw as explained in other comments, not all watches are expensive and I don't like retailing expensive watches. Most sales are under 5k, a market that is often frowned upon by most dealers.
@timemerchantsmtl I get where you're coming from and if for eg I had rhat kind of disposal income.. I would be looking at watches in that price range. However a lot of people simply can't afford to spend that much..or can't justify it anyway. Sure 1 can save up but in the mean time if that person wants to enjoy the hobby by buying a few cheap watches they like the look of as perhaps a test run to see if a more expensive watch of similar style will suit .. I don't see the harm in that. Further. Terms like expensive, affordable etc are all relative. What's affordable for 1 person may be very expensive to another or vice versa.
@@Fred-rg5vw The ‘use-case’ you’ve described above is precisely why the “moonswatch” was both a controversial and lucrative business decision. However, that’s a $250 disposable quartz watch. Buying a vintage mechanical watch that’s worth less than say, 3K (made by a defunct brand) is a dubious purchase at best…particularly if parts are scarce or unobtainable. And that’s a real shame…as there are some gems out there.
Lol if you want a watch that will last a long time buy a Quartz then.I have no doubt my eco drive pro master will last 50 years..It shouldn't be a choice between cheap watches and a 10k Rolex.
There is more than one way to enjoy every hobby in the world. Are you the judge of what is the "proper" way to enjoy collecting? Why do you wear a cheaply made hat and shirt made from inferior materials? Neither will be able to be serviced in the long run, and you will be forced to throw them out, thus creating trash and impacting the planet. You should by a proper leather hat and shirt that will patina overtime and with care from a master tailor should last you generations. Then, and only then, will you be collecting and wearing garments the correct way. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
@@ryanmurphy7422 What does collecting means to you? A collection is usually not made of random cheaply made stuff. For most, a 5k watch is a FORTUNE but that is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to spend wisely when you have little means. Buy once, suffer once, never regret, a good watch at any price point, 30$ to 100-200k+++ is an educated purchase. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of my 50k+++ sales take 10 minutes with serious buyers/dealers. Those are easy sales but for a lot of people whom spending 1k++ means maybe months or years of savings, better spend wisely on a quality object, whichever it might be.
I imagine all my cheap watches last over a decade. Granted all my watches are quartz with the exception of a NH35. Lots of 316L Stainless steel, if I’m a millionaire in a decade, I’ll still be wearing a Casio Edifice with a Miyota 2115 quartz movement and the gaskets lubricated with some silicone grease myself. 👌🏼 I likely won’t replace the batteries on time, so I might sell some after they die on their first or second round of battery life.
I agree with you for the most part but it’s no different on the luxury side. I’m sorry but a new Rolex sub is not worth $10k. A Nautilus isn’t worth over a $100k. There is very little, “watchmaking,” going on with that watch. Today, people buy Rolex and Omega and Patek for the novelty just like the Watermelon watch. Maybe it holds its resale value and maybe not. But then again why not buy gold as an investment. And the secondary market has been driven up in price by your industry. There will alway be 20 neo-vintage GMT master II’s in a store and each will be over $10k. Most sit there. So it’s not a supply or demand issue, it’s the industry screwing the ADs, the ADs screwing you guys and everybody screwing the customer. However, all three of you need the customer but the customer doesn’t necessarily need you. So they’ve moved on to the, “trendy,” watches. Face it, you did this to yourself. I think you need to make a business correction.
@@JosephFantauzzi-qv5hd I am not talking investment here. Never did! I laugh at that concept over and over. The reality is that yes, a Sub is costing 5-8% of retail to produce. People are looking to impress others before themselves. There is no merit to idiots spending 200k on a Patek or 200$ on a random cheap watch. I value knowledge over anything else. You don't know watches and you are ready to spend 5-20k.... 🤦♂️. Even a restaurant's feedback's are read before consuming.... why not watches? I am refusing to fall into the trends, you will not see modern Rolexes in my store in stock. They are supposed to sell the same day and that's what I do. I have little to no control compared to Nico, Luxurybazaar or any other monster of this industry. Am not aiming for that either. I honestly don't care as what I sell in general is parallel to the market and trends, just much prefer vintage over new stuff.
I love watches, but you make something I love, so very dull. On and on with your dull boring voice, but you don't seem to understand why you're getting a -ve reaction.
@@Viper4ever05 I will do that. How long have you been handling this chaps PR? By writing a comment, I was hoping to save some other watch lover, from wasting his time. The content is very poor.
@@vlissinger easy to hate, hard to understand what people really deal with daily. Soooo many people buy stuff that ends up in the bin and 95% of dealers out there are concentrated on the high end tuff. You hate reality? Well this is it! Every single 2nd hand dealer promotes expensive watches, often over 15-20k. I deal with everything but all your comments and lack of interest for rarer or unique vintage pieces shows that we are about to hit a wall. My Rolexes, AP's, PP's sell in days. Some vintage rare pieces in store including a Zenith Sub-Sea with cal 146 had 0 interest in 2 years. Most vintage collectors want the most perfect watches and everything else is disregarded. In 1 year this channel has not paid itself. Faaar from it. I am sharing my daily realities that no one wants to talk about. You want 47th street action? Wrong channel!
Only one truth never listen to people on RUclips buy whatever you want, only you know what makes you happy.
Exactly … agree completely.
I can appreciate everything from a $25 Casio to $10K Panerai. Love my beater Citizen just as much as some of the more expensive stuff. 👍🏻
Facts. Only listen to you and your gut.
You’re absolutely correct. A true watch enthusiast will appreciate a Casio F91W-1 as much as a Patek Philippe Nautilus, buy whatever makes you happy irrespective of price, brand, heritage, etc. Don’t worry about what other people think of your watches.
I’m 73 years old. I’ll be lucky to survive another decade. I buy what I like.
This is what it’s about salute 🫡
God came down in flesh on Christmas Day in the form of Jesus. The king of kings came down from his throne , to be born in the humblest way , in a literal feeding trough, to bring peace for all. That is peace with God. Because of our sins, and Gods character being Holy, we have been separated from God, due the wages of our sins which is death. But Jesus lived a perfect life , yet chose to die on the cross, to pay our debt. He gives us this gift, when we choose to follow him. Don’t wait another day. Hell is for eternity. I say this from a place of love, not condemnation .
I really appreciate what you explained in the video. It tells a lot about why I refused to buy a new shiny Hamilton Khaki, and instead, I found a competent watch repairer that fixed the Khaki my grandfather used since the beginning of World War Two. I have spent two times the price of a new watch, but on my wrist, I have the history of my family, the history of the society I live in now, the history of the ones who believed in freedom and fought for it at the risk of their lives. I want to be the one that does not contribute to producing yet another 20 years watch. I want to be the one who will pass a piece of the history of my family and the world to my son. Thank you ever so much for sharing.
Well said, I wish more people had your values.
I agree with a caveat. Inexpensive watches allow collectors to experience a lot of variety, enabling them to develop preferences, dislikes, etc, without breaking the bank. Buying that inexpensive ST19 watch today, for instance, might lead to a Nevada Grenchen, Longines, or Breitling chrono tomorrow. I think that’s a net benefit to the Swiss watch industry.
My introduction to automatic watches was an Invicta 8926OB with the NH35 movement. I liked it for the way it looked. I didn't know it was an homage to the Rolex submariner. That was about 15 years ago. It's still part of my collection. Not 1 service, still running strong. Still looks awesome. 😮
I have had multiple cheaper Seikos for over 12 years and they run like the day I got them. Cheap does not mean bad quality.
@@turnbasedtoddy7664 Cheaply made doesn't mean cheap. Some thousand dollars watches have cheaper movement/poorly made movements than a Seiko who is dedicated at making watches last.
For example casio orient citizen
A chinese piece that costs 200-ish can do that nowadays.
However, most people still see watches as status symbols.
@RadicallyGreen
100%
A lot of the Chinese Brands use Japanese Movements, I own a few with seiko Movements, when they fail, I'll just replace the Movement.
I have a quartz "rolex" obviously not genuine, it is from Bali, given to me 12 years ago by a dear friend as a "I'm thinking about you, you will see the humour in it" ( ten year watches at work were cancelled six months before I was due). it still works perfectly.. it cost 5 bucks
To equate ownership of luxury level watches to owner satisfaction is erroneous. There are a multitude of quality watch brands that cost a fraction of what overpriced, overhyped Rolex and/or Tudor charge/cost. I think the funniest thing about those people wanting to only wear luxury watches rarely have two nickels to rub together and wear that level of watch as a “flex”. Me personally don’t need a $20,000 watch on my wrist to show my worth or level of success.
Well said. Saw the rolex apparel behind him, and immediately knew his narrow-minded viewpoints.
People look at the watch hobby as a “collecting hobby” but I really think this hobby is more about the experience a few watches can give you. I envy one-watch enthusiasts they get the most amount of experience in one watch.
@@WatchesCanBeFun As a daily buyer of watches, touching entry level to high end watches, there is a middle ground. Once you see high horology and what exists out there, your experience will kick in and you will remark that a Seagull is badly integrated into the case of a Underd0g. There are huge gaps on the back of the watch if you have an experienced eye.
If you look at the finishing of movements, cases, bracelets, you will always remark that Seiko or Grand Seiko is not always perfect, far from it.
Doesn't remove anything to their respective qualities but am sorry, a cheap disposable DW watch is not going to give you "chills" or "thrills" wearing it. It is a 20$ watch marketed 20x it's cost from China. It is not horology.
A collections tends to aim for the best, the very best you can afford, I know many people with a 1 watch "collection" and are very happy, yet some need a change every 2 weeks or add something new every month.... You will end up spending a lot of money on both high end or low end watches without much thought process. My video is about this: think if you need it, what you need it for, buy the best possible watch for your respective budget and begin enjoying.
I loved your comment "Throwing away a movement is an insult to watchmaking". Couldn't agree more.
As someone into matchmaking, I don't think the end consumer should care about insulting matchmaking. This mentality is just gatekeeping.
Being very happily single I certainly don't care about matchmaking, perhaps you meant to say watchmaking.
@@geoffreyyoung-e2q it's so funny that I'm not going to edit it 🤣
I couldn't agree less. You can get an NH35 serviced if you really want to, but it doesn't make sense when they are so cheap to replace.
Maybe the real 'insult to watchmaking' is the mass production processes that enable these movements to be produced so inexpensively, but as the other commenter said, that sounds like gatekeeping.
For me, these movements have been my introduction to watchmaking. They are cheap enough to tinker with, so I have had fun building my own watches.
I would never have been able to be anything but a passive consumer if it wasn't for these inexpensive movements.
@thepenultimateninja5797 if we didn't have mass production (even mid tier luxury movements are there days), there would be no watches. You need entry level pieces to get people started.
I have been collecting for just over two years, and recently I decided to not buy any more watches costing under $1,000, due to the cost effectiveness of servicing in the future.
@@willelliott5052 You grow fond of watches you wear and become nostalgic. I meet tens of people yearly that want their leather band replaced. More than often the companies made a weird strap that is discontinued or has to be custom made. The cost of that is often the price of a new similar watch (sub 500 used models) and since people are attached, they are ready to spend on that repair. I am often telling them that the strap will outmatch the watch but some still do it. Most haters on this topic have no experience at all and think I am snobbing that portion of the industry. Which is contrary, trying to inform them based on my daily shop experiences.
Just keep in mind that in 20-30 years there won't be any watchmakers around in most parts of the world. Any quartz solar is a better deal if you want just a watch.
But anyhow, buy what you like and wear what you like
That’s a bit like suggesting you won’t be able to have an auto mechanic service a combustion-powered vehicle in the next 20-30 years, just b/c electric-power has been widely-embraced.
That said, the experienced watchmaker shortage you’ve alluded to is REAL. I believe the powerful conglomerates like Richemont and the Swatch Group should build an intercontinental satellite school network and actively recruit (and even employ) our next generation of watchmakers to service all new and vintage pieces (call it a “side-hustle”).
@MrKwan007 The Swatch and Richmond groups are already working on recruiting and training more watchmakers as well as the Glashütte brands. The problem is that there is far more people retiring in that field than signing up for training.
Unlike the automotive Industry the roadblocks to become an avid technician are way harder to overcome. I also don't think you'll be able to service a carburetor in most workshops 10-20 years from now.
@@melonlord951
Agreed. The solution however, is to reframe the position (or career field) itself. Many who comprise the “hipster” talent pool need to feel like they’re “making the world a better place” and studies suggest that Gen
Zers are often passionate about so-called “green jobs.”
As we all know, well-maintained mechanical watches can outlive a plastic quartz piece by decades…and that means fewer non-biodegradable batteries and plastic cases in our landfills. So
there you go! 🪄 Problem
solved 😏
I bought the new tudor black bay 58 GMT recently as a treat. My other watches are cheaper and homages and love them. Why? Because i cannot afford to buy many expensive watches. Simple really. And i like them all.
What do you think of the Series 2 and 3 Underdogs with the Sellita movements? More serviceable?
@@time4anew1 Yes, readily available parts Worldwide.
Top tier content! Subscribed🙏
As I grow in this hobby, the more I detest disposable watches. I bought 3 Chinese watches so far, all of them failed and none lasted more than 2 years. I want my watches to go to my grandchildren someday, that means I'm choosing quality watches only.
The 5513 is beautiful ❤
I just learned Watermelon originally isn't a toy watch from Aliexpress which is how it appeals to me. I could imagine it for a kid or aging lady when they want to colors like they are kids again. I'm sorry if I insulted anyone or owners of this watch especially, I just believe watch should be a practical piece able to keep time and look good without resorting to tricks of using fancy dial, omitting battons or digits, omitting dial at all and other cheap tricks meant to provoke emotional response based on absurdity when look dominates function.
My Rolex Datejust, calibre 3135: +2s/day.
My Cartier Santos-Dumont, calibre MC430: +7s/day.
My Seagull 1963, calibre ST1901: +3s/day.
Please don’t overlook the Seagull ST1901.
I don’t really understand. If someone can spend £500 on the watch surely they’ll be fine to spend £500 to service it every 5 years? £100 a year is not that big a deal. Can’t imagine anyone throwing these away.
I loved your last video, man much respect 🙏
I Bought Sinn 556 (with SW200-1) from AD at the start of year, very rough action of movement and some time even helicopter rotor happens. Sent for warranty repair action of movmenet improved but not alot.
@@chosearmandoarmando3864 Sometimes you get a lemon even with 300k $ watches. There are some expectations to be had from a Sw200 though. Workhorses but limited accuracy
Yeah, but the sw200 isn't relevant to what this video is about. That's a highly serviceable movement. Any watch maker in the world will be able to service it for a reasonable price.
Good follow up and great job clarifying what you wanted to say in your first video which honestly was a far cry from this one.
The vintage pieces were absolutely beautiful and there's a lot to be said for a watch that may outlive you and be passed on and appreciated. I haven't paid any attention to vintage though the watches I've collected so far are basically traditional styles and watch faces, as well as brands, which may make my collection a little boring to some but you have definitely shown me how truly beautiful those vintage pieces can be. Good stuff!!
Oh, and since I'm watching this on my 65-in TV, I almost spit my coffee out when you specifically showcased my comment. I don't know if that's bad or good. Especially at 65 in!! 😅
@@ExposedRoot 👍🙏
San Martin plus some Apple, Amazon and Nvidia stock? I prefer compound interest!
There’s no shortage of affordable watches that will easily last over a decade these days. And most of us buy watches for the joy of watches, not as investments in a couple of brands
I agree with much of what you say around the craftsmanship of horology, and I absolutely respect your views, unfortunately there are two sides to everything. My collection of watches includes a vintage Seiko, a Tissot, various small brands watches and homages, as well as a vintage 7017/0 which I hadn’t worn for nearly 40 years and recently serviced. However, links for the 7836 strap are not available so cannot be maintained, and the glass with magnifier is no longer either (although they had one). My point, whole watches cannot be maintained over long periods. I have a speedy homage, which cost £90, a real Speedy costs £10,000, for these prices, I could replace the homage 20 times, and have several other watches to wear for the cost of a single speedy. I like and respect quality and manual watches, but I love watches and like to have choices. £100 here and there is spendable, £10,000 upfront is not - if its not affordable, it doesn’t happen.
@@Beaker0606 I don't judge what people buy. Just their spending habits without being patient or studying their purchase and lack of curiosity.
@@Beaker0606 and by the way Rolex offers replacement bracelets for all their vintage watches if you ask their service centers.
@@timemerchantsmtl your videos are very good and informative but they can come across as a little judgemental. I am curious, I love the watches and have style preferences. If I could afford Omega’s, Tudors and Rolexs, I’d buy them but unfortunately I don’t, so I buy what I can afford as I’m sure many people do.
@@timemerchantsmtl I will revisit the strap query as the AD told me the the folded links for the 7836 is no longer available. They did say other 20mm oyster straps were available but I’d like to keep the original, and I only really need one of two links which is a little frustrating.
@@Beaker0606 I do have 7836's in stock. The new ones offered are 78360s.
I own the watermelon and I think the movement is very serviceable and the watch itself is worth less than a Rolex servicing :) plus I like it much more than a Rolex design wise.
@@MrVitamincpp Yes, from the design point of view it is incredible, I just find the integration in the case, especially from the back a bit underwhelming. For the price it is super good, just that with a bit more attention the Seagull movement would have exposed in a more favourable way. There seems to be a hige gap all around the movement when you have the watch on hand. Otherwise it is good in every way and their collab with Moser is 👍.
Superbe vidéo, Toujours très instructif!
Merci Cristian
I'd love to get a heirloom quality watch, though I haven't found one yet that I can aspire to.
Hasn't that Seagull movement been around for ages? These are disposable watches. A completely different market than the more prestige brands. Nobody buys this with the idea of it being a collectors item. If someone wants to swap out the movement 10-15 years it is because the watch means something personal to them.
@@Black_Cat_997 The problem is that a proper watchmaker will charge you just as much to work on a Seagull as on a Valjoux 22-23-92-72 or Landeron or Venus 178 for example. I am against throwing movements away instead of fixing them but these are sadly not economically repairable when time comes.
I think if your on a budget get miyota 9000 series shouldn’t be too much too put a new one in or have it serviced
I agree but also not. With your logic you’re tying watch buying too much to the monetary value vs servicing cost, meaning you’d never really buy a watch under $1000.
When honestly the biggest thing is to just enjoy what you’re wearing, screw the rest. If you wear your $300 watch for 10 years happily, that’s a win. When you’re dead you’re dead.
A vintage watch service interval recommendation is approx every 5 years. Unless you’re lucky with a local watchmaker, getting any service done through Rolex is costing about $1000 nowadays when all is said and done. Is that really a good investment? No, watches aren’t investments. You’d be better off buying a ‘fun’
@@nintendokings Of course will always think of the long term. I think of long lasting items, like a Japanese knife.... you buy once and for ever. The only upside of the knife, you can sharpen it yourself on a stone, a watch, not much you can do because it is a precision instrument and it needs care from a professional.
This watch industry used to be very humble, most of watchmakers locally were very very poor in general and did their best to serve customers, customers who often had 1 watch that they bought to last a lifetime. That's why Rolexes and most Omegas are worn down, polished, some serviced 25-30x so far. The mentality was around holding that one precious quality watch for a long period of time. This is what I am showcasing on my channel.
You can buy a 300$ watch. Just that the industry changed so much that in that range of price most of them are not meant to be repaired and long lasting. I, and ALL the second hand dealers are into recycling, giving a second life to watches. A lot more used watches change hands now than ever before. I am resisting the temptation of going for the easy market of Rolex, Omega and AP like most dealers that actually REALLY SNOB the lower end, sub 5-10k part of the 2nd hand market. I was watching a few RUclipsr Dealers who talk about IWC and Zenith like if they were trash. To them, they are just because they can't make huge margins therefore talking these brands down yet they are among the top 10 brands that marked the industry in the past century.
Love and wear whatever. Just wear it/them with the consumer's knowlege of what you are buying. I am biased towards watches that are meant to last, and yes, that comes at a price. You can't buy luxury for 20$. The market is designed in such a way that if you want anything of quality, long lasting and passed down, it will often cost you. A lot.
@ tooting your horn that you’re not a “REAL SNOB” like most of your colleagues who shit on great cheaper brands is hardly a flex..
Buy what you like. If you like watches that last long that’s great, there’s something to be said for it. But (and not just saying this to you) just buy your nice watch and stfu with the preaching. Most of your implied points are easily torn down.
- better ‘investment’? As said: a vintage Rolex serviced with Rolex can quickly cost you $1000 every 5 years. But congrats you have a 34mm Rolex now? Hardly worth preaching about the false economy of cheaper watches.
- environment? Don’t get me started. Unless you buy one pre-owned watch without postage it’s just virtue signalling. WWF categorises Rolex and watches in general as one of the worst sectors. No serious environmentalist owns lots of luxury watches.
- they last long = good value. Idk, I have a Casio Oceanus and a GS quartz for example, I have no doubt they will last very long even unserviced, and a lifetime if I service them. Good quartz watches are more robust than mechanical.
- pass on to the next generation? This is also a newer concept and wasn’t part of the industry of old you speak of. And honestly, rather than hand down a crusty old watch in 40-50 years when we’re dead, that needs servicing every 5 years, I guarantee you most would rather receive a big pile of 40-50 years of S&P500 compounded money. Are wrist watches even going to be trendy in 40+ years? Inheritance is an extra, but it being a legit selling point is just Patek marketing.
- philosophical aspect of buying things that last, regardless of financial rationality? Sure, I can see that especially when buying one watch. Counter argument would be that nothing last and everything was designed with an expiry date, from the things around you to the sun and the universe. Philosophically I’d rather embrace death as part of life.
Anyway, I agree that people should be informed that a $500 watch with ST19 isn’t something that will last a lifetime. But I think most people buying them know this, especially when buying enthusiast brands like Studio Underdog. Lower-end Swatchgroup with Powermatic 80 and such are more of a trap if you ask me. But then again, they are decent watches that last fairly long, so just buy and enjoy if it’s what you want.
True in part. I find myself buying on impulse and a year later regretting it. I could have saved that money for a nicer, higher quality time piece. Ending up with a box full of cheap watches, money wasted.
@sailor123ize Yes, but now you've really distilled features and usability and know exactly what you're looking for. Had you dropped $20k up front and realized now that there are other watches you like more, you made a huge mistake. You bought the watch you wanted before you knew what you wanted.
Seperate pt to my other comment.
I agree that findinf a reputable A D that you trust , to buy from and also use for service / repairs is the way to go. I really like vintage omegas for eg but know hardly anything about them..are parts orginal, is the movement workinf well etc. And id be a lot more comfortable buyin from a dealer i trusted than trying my luck directly..to save a few dollars
Studio Underdog was a pretty good example. Absolutely a brand people talk about on the internet now, and will be embarrassed to wear in 5-10 years because of how silly the Gen1 models actually are.
Then….Fast Fwd 70 years, and SU’s pieces will resurface and be celebrated on PBS’ Antiques Roadshow 😂
Wait.. did this guy just say you wont be able to service a seagull movement??.... what the hell is he talking about? It's going to be just a serviceable as any other movement. Cheap is a relative term. Just because a watch doesn't cost multiple thousands of dollars doesn't mean its a cheap watch. Don't waste too much money on jewelry.
@@brockadcock2735 Can you service a Seagull? Sure. The movement is 125-150 USD online. Not one Quality watchmaker will open, clean, oil and lubricate, reassemble for less than the value of that movement (3.5-6h job). My watchmaker charges me 400+ USD for chronographs. It is the same job to do a valjoux 72 as a Seagull. Not same values at all, not same quality either. Even in Europe small shops charge 250-600€ to do similar jobs. The time it takes is the same. Therefore: you throw the movement away and buy a new one at 125-150. No one will agree to pay 2.5-4x the price of servicing it versus replacing. It is economically not viable. Most of times the entire watch containing the Seagull costed less. It becomes a throw-away watch.
I've been assuming that the prevalence of that Sea Gull movement ensured it's serviceability (more likely replacability) for at least the next decade, if not longer. Is that not a fair assumption?
@@myownbiggestfan We never know, as far as repairing them, in the Western countries the labour cost is not effective therefore more easy to replace than repair, which is a bit sad to do. The production process may last an other 50 years if there will still be a demand for the product, but I hope that they will see the value in producing, upgrading the quality of what they do as many independents in China can produce exceptional movements. I hope it will eventually lead to that because of the experience of manufacture.
Once again this comes across as a self serving video from a used watch store owner.
💯
Are SS Daytonas and Royal Oaks future proof?
@@meetseth3 Obviously yes but pricewise I have no clue.
“No shitters”
-Archieluxury
Ive bought a few expensive watches and they failed. My exclusive Meistersinger limited edition is at the repair shop for months and my Rolex marriage watch broke within days of getting it. Stick to £50 watches. Pagani make beautiful watches. I would rather have 10 £50 watches than 1 expensive watch I’ll get bored of.
Well made San Martin will be just as durable as anything in the long haul, please don’t kid yourself.
BTW - if you want to save the planet, don’t upgrade your IPhone.
As you explained if the service is gonna cost more than buying a new similar watch or movement it makes no sesne to get it serviced..unless it has sentimental value. Your ibv in a diff situation as you can fix them yourself instead of paying top $ for rhe work.
Not everyone can afford to buy 15k watches .
I agree re rhose underdog watches. Silly novelty watches that youd wear maybe once or twice ..
@@Fred-rg5vw as explained in other comments, not all watches are expensive and I don't like retailing expensive watches. Most sales are under 5k, a market that is often frowned upon by most dealers.
@timemerchantsmtl
I get where you're coming from and if for eg I had rhat kind of disposal income..
I would be looking at watches in that price range.
However a lot of people simply can't afford to spend that much..or can't justify it anyway. Sure 1 can save up but in the mean time if that person wants to enjoy the hobby by buying a few cheap watches they like the look of as perhaps a test run to see if a more expensive watch of similar style will suit ..
I don't see the harm in that.
Further. Terms like expensive, affordable etc are all relative.
What's affordable for 1 person may be very expensive to another or vice versa.
@@Fred-rg5vw
The ‘use-case’ you’ve described above is precisely why the “moonswatch” was both a controversial and lucrative business decision. However, that’s a $250 disposable quartz watch. Buying a vintage
mechanical watch that’s worth less than say, 3K (made by a defunct brand) is a dubious purchase at best…particularly if parts are scarce or unobtainable. And that’s a real shame…as there are some gems out there.
Lol if you want a watch that will last a long time buy a Quartz then.I have no doubt my eco drive pro master will last 50 years..It shouldn't be a choice between cheap watches and a 10k Rolex.
In 10 years hobbyist will be 3D printing the movements ourselves.
@@turnipdreams 🤦♂️ This industry is all about the human touch.
There is more than one way to enjoy every hobby in the world. Are you the judge of what is the "proper" way to enjoy collecting? Why do you wear a cheaply made hat and shirt made from inferior materials? Neither will be able to be serviced in the long run, and you will be forced to throw them out, thus creating trash and impacting the planet. You should by a proper leather hat and shirt that will patina overtime and with care from a master tailor should last you generations. Then, and only then, will you be collecting and wearing garments the correct way. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
@@ryanmurphy7422 What does collecting means to you? A collection is usually not made of random cheaply made stuff. For most, a 5k watch is a FORTUNE but that is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to spend wisely when you have little means. Buy once, suffer once, never regret, a good watch at any price point, 30$ to 100-200k+++ is an educated purchase. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of my 50k+++ sales take 10 minutes with serious buyers/dealers. Those are easy sales but for a lot of people whom spending 1k++ means maybe months or years of savings, better spend wisely on a quality object, whichever it might be.
I imagine all my cheap watches last over a decade. Granted all my watches are quartz with the exception of a NH35. Lots of 316L Stainless steel, if I’m a millionaire in a decade, I’ll still be wearing a Casio Edifice with a Miyota 2115 quartz movement and the gaskets lubricated with some silicone grease myself. 👌🏼 I likely won’t replace the batteries on time, so I might sell some after they die on their first or second round of battery life.
Get a gshock
Expensive ugly watches are bad too 😂
@@AMore429 yes but this is not what this video is about. I am by no way a fan of RM's or some weird large watches.
I zoned out 2 minutes in. Interesting topic but boring video.
Any specific suggestions or recommendations…re how he might’ve done a better job holding your attention?
I agree with you for the most part but it’s no different on the luxury side. I’m sorry but a new Rolex sub is not worth $10k. A Nautilus isn’t worth over a $100k. There is very little, “watchmaking,” going on with that watch. Today, people buy Rolex and Omega and Patek for the novelty just like the Watermelon watch. Maybe it holds its resale value and maybe not. But then again why not buy gold as an investment. And the secondary market has been driven up in price by your industry. There will alway be 20 neo-vintage GMT master II’s in a store and each will be over $10k. Most sit there. So it’s not a supply or demand issue, it’s the industry screwing the ADs, the ADs screwing you guys and everybody screwing the customer. However, all three of you need the customer but the customer doesn’t necessarily need you. So they’ve moved on to the, “trendy,” watches. Face it, you did this to yourself. I think you need to make a business correction.
@@JosephFantauzzi-qv5hd I am not talking investment here. Never did! I laugh at that concept over and over. The reality is that yes, a Sub is costing 5-8% of retail to produce. People are looking to impress others before themselves. There is no merit to idiots spending 200k on a Patek or 200$ on a random cheap watch. I value knowledge over anything else. You don't know watches and you are ready to spend 5-20k.... 🤦♂️. Even a restaurant's feedback's are read before consuming.... why not watches?
I am refusing to fall into the trends, you will not see modern Rolexes in my store in stock. They are supposed to sell the same day and that's what I do. I have little to no control compared to Nico, Luxurybazaar or any other monster of this industry. Am not aiming for that either. I honestly don't care as what I sell in general is parallel to the market and trends, just much prefer vintage over new stuff.
I love watches, but you make something I love, so very dull. On and on with your dull boring voice, but you don't seem to understand why you're getting a -ve reaction.
what?
just don't watch?
@@Viper4ever05 I will do that. How long have you been handling this chaps PR?
By writing a comment, I was hoping to save some other watch lover, from wasting his time. The content is very poor.
Was für ein Schwachsinn
What is this guy rambling about !!? self serving bull...
@@vlissinger easy to hate, hard to understand what people really deal with daily. Soooo many people buy stuff that ends up in the bin and 95% of dealers out there are concentrated on the high end tuff.
You hate reality? Well this is it! Every single 2nd hand dealer promotes expensive watches, often over 15-20k. I deal with everything but all your comments and lack of interest for rarer or unique vintage pieces shows that we are about to hit a wall. My Rolexes, AP's, PP's sell in days. Some vintage rare pieces in store including a Zenith Sub-Sea with cal 146 had 0 interest in 2 years. Most vintage collectors want the most perfect watches and everything else is disregarded. In 1 year this channel has not paid itself. Faaar from it. I am sharing my daily realities that no one wants to talk about. You want 47th street action? Wrong channel!