Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I work for a big line clearance company in California, our trimmers top trees every day. It hurts my heart, but it's preferable to fires or power outages. It's unbelievable how often trees are planted directly below lines which will eventually grow to 50ft or taller if left untouched. There are a couple massive redwoods that have been cut more than in half as they're directly below the lines and they need trimming every 2-3 years still. Eucalyptus are a special nightmare, can grow 8-12 feet vertically in a year and are virtually impossible to fully kill once large and established. And the palms... don't get me started on palms near the lines. We always encourage people to plant trees that will not grow taller than ~25 feet at maturity near the lines, exactly so we can avoid topping more trees.
This is a great video. I think it was done very well, you hear people say "don't talk trees" but don't put in the time to show all of these things. I am constantly telling customers the dangers of topping their tree. I believe I'll be suggesting this video to several customers to help educate them. Thanks again and you have really taught me a great deal of things over the years.
I think this is a great example to send to clients that are thinking about topping. We will be sending this link to any client that wants to top their tree.
After quite a few years in this job, I have done and seen many different types of crown management. I have also had the fortune of seeing those jobs many years later. Sometimes what works on one tree will kill another. Sometimes topping is good management but is usually a last resort.
Great video! I've explained the risks and danger of topping trees to many customers, some understand and prefer a crown reduction, some are sticking to their original ideas of topping trees no matter what. Its sad but to those customers i make it clear i am not responsible when 2-3- 4 years down the road, the tree dies, gets a disease or outright looks very ugly. I will definitely use your video to get my point across. Thanks again
I totally agree! When I have to I seal the wood up with spray bed liner and explain to the customer that every 3 to 5 years they need a climber to go up and maintain the sealed spot !
The pictures on Instagram have already looked terrible, but in the video the damage is even clearer. Thanks for share this video. Hopefully it‘ll help. Greetings
Topping is so pervasive homeowners will argue its the professional thing to do for any tree in any circumstance and treat an actual professional suspiciously for trying to educate them.
Crown reduction is the pinnacle of our craft. Learning to tell a customer "No" is a hard part of this job. Fortunately, the culture of tree CARE is strong in boise, and poor work (topping, lion tailing) is getting the lesser hackers run out of the industry.
Every live oak or laurel oak etc... around here that's been lions tailed trimmed, not one branch in that tree was broken after a storm or hurricane so I wonder about y is it bad the trees seem to be doing awesome. Just saying. Topping is just stupid y not just take it down. Anyway awesome video CA. Be safe
@@Cholton222 lions tailing is bad because trees have different canopies upper, middle, and lower. the upper canopy is for those sunny days, the middle and lower is for the cloudy, low light days. so if you take all the lower canopies out than on cloudy, low light like dawn and dusk the tree will be missing out on all that wonderfull food. another reason why lions tailing isnt a good practice is because it will eventually make the limb go to long and the longer the limb the more force the limb is applied at the crotch and everything will be good untill it isnt. do you like the look of lions tailing ch tree?
@@waynegriswold8953 yes I like the look. But first of all I know what the proper way by the book to prune trees. I'm just saying from looking at trees around here in Florida, live oaks in particular that have been lions tailed pruned and they do outstanding during high winds, and also all the trees I seen are really healthy looking , and have always been lions tailed. The closing, I'm not saying I do it all the time but I do however prune real broad live oaks out in the open exposed to wind that way. After hurricane Sally I went and checked on some of my favorite live oaks I have worked on and they were fine... but to answer NO I don't do it all the time.
@@waynegriswold8953 Lions tailing also reduces the ability for limbs to apply resistance to wind. And it sets up multiple entry points for fungi to get in. And it looks crap like you said! A much better approach I feel is to reduce over extended limbs so you remove end weight.
Cheers for the comment as always Matt. I thought this was a particularly good job to document , and to show years after heavy topping has been done. It’s a great example of what is likely to happen, especially with coniferous trees.
Thank you for sharing all these reasons and insights regarding the decisions behind tree topping. We weren't educated about topping our birch trees--fortunately it's only happened once, so we will proceed down a better path to extend the life of our trees now that they've been topped.
There's so much of this in Florida. Every other week I have to tell someone who's been talked into having a tree topped that they're now in for an expensive, every-couple-of-years maintenance schedule. Most recently I had to do corrective pruning on a beautiful mahogany that had been hacked up.
Why is the trunk cut horizontal when topped? I’m assuming most of the rot is due to water intrusion sitting on the flat surface you have created. So why not cut them on a 45? Never topped a tree before.
Thanks for that well crafted informative video. I am heartsick over the pine tree in my backyard. It’s an eastern white pine, and has two leaders at maybe 150 feet tall. It provides massive shade, and has been there my entire life. The arborist said it was maybe dangerous, and that it could be pruned lightly to keep its shape, and would be good for the longevity of the tree. Very expensive, but I agreed, as long as it would be safer, and still be cute. I was kind of horrified to see that he has topped it, and thought it still might be dangerous as one leader really leans away from the rest of the tree. A year later branches big enough to smash the neighbor’s fences came down, and my neighbor came out screaming to get the tree removed. When I called the Arborist, he said the tree is self cleaning, and it’s okay. But, he could go up and trim a little and cable the two leaders at a couple different points, creating a reinforced system. Suddenly, while talking that through, he aggressively advocated for me to agree to removal ( for a lot of money more), AFTER telling me it’s healthy, and that it will live 499 more years. 🤷♀ In the end, under pressure, I told him he could cable the leaders, and cut the broken branches, hoping that it will satisfy the issues. Your video here is making me wonder now though. I wonder how the cabling will impact the tree (soft wood). I wonder if this tree will be will be a chronic maintenance issue. Do the top cuts look horrible like in your video? I’m planning on getting a fence, so the trucks will not be able to get in the yard after the cabling is done, if it needs more care after this. 🫣 What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance. 😘
This was done to a Douglas fir in my garden a long time ago. One of the branches has a 'mini tree' growing from it. The decay doesn't look as bad as this though.
They are a complete mess. In this case the homeowner wanted to keep the trees, so the only thing to maintain the trees and reduce risk was take those new tops down by 30-35 feet, removing all that extra weight and wind sail, ultimately drastically reducing forces on the tree.
Let's say you have a pine tree that is way too tall but the customer does not want it down what would you recommend to do to shorter the pine tree cuz don't you always have to top it in some way if it's a pine just curious on your recommendation thank you so much
I suppose the question is, ‘why is it too tall’ ? Are there visible defects that make the tree unsafe, or is it just the height that has a homeowner concerned?
My question is why are your re-topping them at all? You've answered it below by stating that the regrowth from the previous toppings has made them more of a risk and that the homeowner doesn't want to remove them. However my experience has been that continued topping only escalates the decline of the entire trees often resulting in complete death. From your video it almost appeared that the last topping cuts had more decay than the older ones, is that correct? Each successive topping weakens the entire tree. Might one alternative be to 'edit' out a number of the specimens (one-third to two thirds) completely, replant in those open spaces with new specimens and leave the remaining trees alone with the long-term plan of coming back on some schedule to eventually remove and replant the entire row. That might not cost a lot more in the long term than the difficulty in having to prune them regularly. Just a consideration.
Re-topping is the only way to mitigate risk of top failure now. We removed 35ft of multiple tops on each tree. Can you image how much weight, which equates to force that was removed from each tree? The owner wanted to retain the trees so this was the only option for keeping the somewhat safe, or ‘safer’ is a better word.
Hey hi... great vodeo as always tree knowledge that tree trimmers sometimes don't know. Now I am Martin from Argentina I handle both languages as you can see. I have experience in high rise tasks like window cleaning. My question is : Is it true that Canada needs workers in some jobs like in the construction industry, truck drivers, gastronomy and such, to the point of giving opportunities to foreign people to immigrate there ?
well if its done like they do in the UK the tree should just be cut down completely, sick of seeing trees cut to pieces before they even get a chance to get to the normal size our local park has been decimated they cut off everything its trunks with stubs and takes years to even start looking healthy again some even out right die, pisses me off lol i want to move to BC in Canada so i can live in a true forest
@@BigHardTreeBoys Sometimes topping is better if you want to have a tree. It depends on the species.edit: It also depends on the thickness of the branches that you want to cut.
I don't do it, and never done it. It doesn't make your trees any shorter for any significant amount of time. It creates weakened branching (creating a maintainence nightmare), due to the sucker growth which now is becoming the main leads--further creating a dangerous scenario for future trimming or removal in regard to no real available strong anchor points for work and main climbing lines. It's also unsightly. BAD ARBORIST! Stop doing that!
I think it’s effective as end of life treatment for a few problems. Such as a retrenchment plan. This can work if you wish to encourage a spar lower down. But major kudos for covering this. Not many do.
Retrenchment pruning was one thing that I didn’t mention. Although if someone is considering retrenchment pruning they likely know much more about this topic that most anyway
One of the things I'd like to have seen Dan maybe is comment or discussion of what can be done with regard to "retraining" storm damaged or topped trees/ conifers. We've had good luck topping main stems (up to about 6 - 12") that have gone all wild after big snow damage. We angle cut the main stem a bit, above and close to a branch or whorl we can then use as another "stem" - this is tied up with a stick(s) (I've found 2 - 3" cornice moulding is good for this because of a concave side to the tree stem/ branch) and in most cases after a year or two it'll become the main leader. If the branch is thicker, we've started them out loosely tied and once a month tie the branch closer and closer to vertical. Some of the trees have weak apical dominance, so every two years or so, in early spring they should have a trip up with the long reach pruners to nip any competing buds or candles and discourage competing upwards growth. Takes an hour up, snip snip and down. In most cases we've been able to "train" real wrecks of conifers doing this - some have ended up with maybe a "trunk wiggle" 15 yrs later where the surgery was carried out but I've yet to have the big decay problems of a flat topping cut in the main stem as you've shown. Maybe an option. Cheers and stay safe out there.
Some great insight to ideas of dealing with damaged trees. This video was intended to be simple and to the point, showing what can and will happen after topping. Your ideas sound great, but sound very specialist to those excellent companies that go above and beyond their call of duty, like you obviously do.
When I started out 20 + plus years ago French Pollarding was a thing. Basically you reduced to knuckles on main scaffold limbs and maintained them to that area. Street trees for eg. But never on mature Beech's,Birches etc. Unfortunately the rule of thirds is very often ignored by people trying to make money and the chaps comment about the hardest part is saying no is true.
Maybe it's a regional thing but here in western PA many people still think tree topping is not bad. It feels like an uphill fight sometimes to get the right information out there.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I work for a big line clearance company in California, our trimmers top trees every day. It hurts my heart, but it's preferable to fires or power outages. It's unbelievable how often trees are planted directly below lines which will eventually grow to 50ft or taller if left untouched. There are a couple massive redwoods that have been cut more than in half as they're directly below the lines and they need trimming every 2-3 years still. Eucalyptus are a special nightmare, can grow 8-12 feet vertically in a year and are virtually impossible to fully kill once large and established. And the palms... don't get me started on palms near the lines. We always encourage people to plant trees that will not grow taller than ~25 feet at maturity near the lines, exactly so we can avoid topping more trees.
This is a great video. I think it was done very well, you hear people say "don't talk trees" but don't put in the time to show all of these things. I am constantly telling customers the dangers of topping their tree. I believe I'll be suggesting this video to several customers to help educate them. Thanks again and you have really taught me a great deal of things over the years.
I think this is a great example to send to clients that are thinking about topping. We will be sending this link to any client that wants to top their tree.
After quite a few years in this job, I have done and seen many different types of crown management. I have also had the fortune of seeing those jobs many years later. Sometimes what works on one tree will kill another. Sometimes topping is good management but is usually a last resort.
Great comment 👍
Great video!
I've explained the risks and danger of topping trees to many customers, some understand and prefer a crown reduction, some are sticking to their original ideas of topping trees no matter what. Its sad but to those customers i make it clear i am not responsible when 2-3- 4 years down the road, the tree dies, gets a disease or outright looks very ugly. I will definitely use your video to get my point across. Thanks again
I totally agree! When I have to I seal the wood up with spray bed liner and explain to the customer that every 3 to 5 years they need a climber to go up and maintain the sealed spot !
The pictures on Instagram have already looked terrible, but in the video the damage is even clearer.
Thanks for share this video. Hopefully it‘ll help.
Greetings
🙏
Topping is so pervasive homeowners will argue its the professional thing to do for any tree in any circumstance and treat an actual professional suspiciously for trying to educate them.
Totally agree with you there
Excellent job Dan 🤙 keep up the good work man. Another great video to show the guys
Thanks 👍
Crown reduction is the pinnacle of our craft. Learning to tell a customer "No" is a hard part of this job. Fortunately, the culture of tree CARE is strong in boise, and poor work (topping, lion tailing) is getting the lesser hackers run out of the industry.
Glad to hear the culture of tree work in good in Boise
Every live oak or laurel oak etc... around here that's been lions tailed trimmed, not one branch in that tree was broken after a storm or hurricane so I wonder about y is it bad the trees seem to be doing awesome. Just saying. Topping is just stupid y not just take it down. Anyway awesome video CA. Be safe
@@Cholton222 lions tailing is bad because trees have different canopies upper, middle, and lower. the upper canopy is for those sunny days, the middle and lower is for the cloudy, low light days. so if you take all the lower canopies out than on cloudy, low light like dawn and dusk the tree will be missing out on all that wonderfull food. another reason why lions tailing isnt a good practice is because it will eventually make the limb go to long and the longer the limb the more force the limb is applied at the crotch and everything will be good untill it isnt.
do you like the look of lions tailing ch tree?
@@waynegriswold8953 yes I like the look. But first of all I know what the proper way by the book to prune trees. I'm just saying from looking at trees around here in Florida, live oaks in particular that have been lions tailed pruned and they do outstanding during high winds, and also all the trees I seen are really healthy looking , and have always been lions tailed. The closing, I'm not saying I do it all the time but I do however prune real broad live oaks out in the open exposed to wind that way. After hurricane Sally I went and checked on some of my favorite live oaks I have worked on and they were fine... but to answer NO I don't do it all the time.
@@waynegriswold8953 Lions tailing also reduces the ability for limbs to apply resistance to wind. And it sets up multiple entry points for fungi to get in. And it looks crap like you said! A much better approach I feel is to reduce over extended limbs so you remove end weight.
Brilliant video as always. Such great content and valuable for any Arborists. Thanks for the hard work putting this together and sharing!
Cheers for the comment as always Matt. I thought this was a particularly good job to document , and to show years after heavy topping has been done. It’s a great example of what is likely to happen, especially with coniferous trees.
Thank you for sharing all these reasons and insights regarding the decisions behind tree topping. We weren't educated about topping our birch trees--fortunately it's only happened once, so we will proceed down a better path to extend the life of our trees now that they've been topped.
Appreciate your comment, glad you took the time to watch this video
There's so much of this in Florida. Every other week I have to tell someone who's been talked into having a tree topped that they're now in for an expensive, every-couple-of-years maintenance schedule. Most recently I had to do corrective pruning on a beautiful mahogany that had been hacked up.
great video, i haven't been watching your channel to long but i real enjoyed this educational video, and would love to see more.
Thanks Wayne 👍
Why is the trunk cut horizontal when topped? I’m assuming most of the rot is due to water intrusion sitting on the flat surface you have created. So why not cut them on a 45? Never topped a tree before.
Well said , there are people out there that don’t care about the trees, all they care about is the money!!!!!
👍
I've even heard of some shady tree companies telling people that their sycamore is sick and dying because the bark is flaking higher up.
Man, being up there with you was like an arborist haunted house.
Thanks for that well crafted informative video.
I am heartsick over the pine tree in my backyard. It’s an eastern white pine, and has two leaders at maybe 150 feet tall. It provides massive shade, and has been there my entire life. The arborist said it was maybe dangerous, and that it could be pruned lightly to keep its shape, and would be good for the longevity of the tree. Very expensive, but I agreed, as long as it would be safer, and still be cute. I was kind of horrified to see that he has topped it, and thought it still might be dangerous as one leader really leans away from the rest of the tree. A year later branches big enough to smash the neighbor’s fences came down, and my neighbor came out screaming to get the tree removed. When I called the Arborist, he said the tree is self cleaning, and it’s okay. But, he could go up and trim a little and cable the two leaders at a couple different points, creating a reinforced system. Suddenly, while talking that through, he aggressively advocated for me to agree to removal ( for a lot of money more), AFTER telling me it’s healthy, and that it will live 499 more years. 🤷♀
In the end, under pressure, I told him he could cable the leaders, and cut the broken branches, hoping that it will satisfy the issues.
Your video here is making me wonder now though. I wonder how the cabling will impact the tree (soft wood). I wonder if this tree will be will be a chronic maintenance issue. Do the top cuts look horrible like in your video? I’m planning on getting a fence, so the trucks will not be able to get in the yard after the cabling is done, if it needs more care after this. 🫣
What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance. 😘
Great video, great pics and examples of topping cuts. Good advice. Except…
Trees don’t heal (“heal over”) they seal (C.O.D.I.T.)
Excellent as always! thanks Dan.
Thank you 🙏
This was done to a Douglas fir in my garden a long time ago. One of the branches has a 'mini tree' growing from it. The decay doesn't look as bad as this though.
Is there's something you can use to coat the freshly cut stem that will protect it from disease and pests?
You just have to let the tree heal itself
The topping cut shoukd be at an angle to shed water, and a new small leader needs to be chosen and wired into position, immediately.
Could you successfully retrench the canopy under these circumstances?
Can you justify topping a conifer tree if there is an significant about of dieback at the pinnacle point?
Does it make sense to you that the law there says that you can’t top below a point that was already topped? What’s the reasoning there?
What a gigantic mess, these trees should have been removed ages ago, this will just create more and more problems down the road..
They are a complete mess. In this case the homeowner wanted to keep the trees, so the only thing to maintain the trees and reduce risk was take those new tops down by 30-35 feet, removing all that extra weight and wind sail, ultimately drastically reducing forces on the tree.
A lot of cowboy tree services will top trees or lion tail so professional tree surgeons are needed for proper pruning
👍
Are you having to use a tie in point that is a shoot from an old topping cut? If so, how do you have the confidence that it is secure? Thankyou.
Never mind, As the video played I see your tie in point!
Dan’s the man!
🙏
Let's say you have a pine tree that is way too tall but the customer does not want it down what would you recommend to do to shorter the pine tree cuz don't you always have to top it in some way if it's a pine just curious on your recommendation thank you so much
I suppose the question is, ‘why is it too tall’ ? Are there visible defects that make the tree unsafe, or is it just the height that has a homeowner concerned?
@@ClimbingArborist yeah let's say the homeowner is concerned with the height
👏
My question is why are your re-topping them at all? You've answered it below by stating that the regrowth from the previous toppings has made them more of a risk and that the homeowner doesn't want to remove them. However my experience has been that continued topping only escalates the decline of the entire trees often resulting in complete death. From your video it almost appeared that the last topping cuts had more decay than the older ones, is that correct? Each successive topping weakens the entire tree. Might one alternative be to 'edit' out a number of the specimens (one-third to two thirds) completely, replant in those open spaces with new specimens and leave the remaining trees alone with the long-term plan of coming back on some schedule to eventually remove and replant the entire row. That might not cost a lot more in the long term than the difficulty in having to prune them regularly. Just a consideration.
Re-topping is the only way to mitigate risk of top failure now. We removed 35ft of multiple tops on each tree. Can you image how much weight, which equates to force that was removed from each tree?
The owner wanted to retain the trees so this was the only option for keeping the somewhat safe, or ‘safer’ is a better word.
Hey hi... great vodeo as always tree knowledge that tree trimmers sometimes don't know.
Now I am Martin from Argentina I handle both languages as you can see. I have experience in high rise tasks like window cleaning. My question is :
Is it true that Canada needs workers in some jobs like in the construction industry, truck drivers, gastronomy and such, to the point of giving opportunities to foreign people to immigrate there ?
Sorry, I am not sure about those industries
but trees do get naturally topped by strong winds and volcanic eruptions and they can still survive.
Mucky old day Dan! Bet you were glad to hit the shower :-)
well if its done like they do in the UK the tree should just be cut down completely, sick of seeing trees cut to pieces before they even get a chance to get to the normal size
our local park has been decimated they cut off everything its trunks with stubs and takes years to even start looking healthy again some even out right die, pisses me off lol
i want to move to BC in Canada so i can live in a true forest
It’s better to top a tree than have it fall on you’re house
I'm sure nobody wants a tree on their house
Going to go out on a limb and say not always but mostly yes
👍
Sometimes its better to top Trees before they get the house in heavy storm..
If a trees genuinely at risk of hitting a house in the next storm the best option is removal..
@@BigHardTreeBoys Sometimes topping is better if you want to have a tree. It depends on the species.edit: It also depends on the thickness of the branches that you want to cut.
I don't do it, and never done it.
It doesn't make your trees any shorter for any significant amount of time. It creates weakened branching (creating a maintainence nightmare), due to the sucker growth which now is becoming the main leads--further creating a dangerous scenario for future trimming or removal in regard to no real available strong anchor points for work and main climbing lines.
It's also unsightly.
BAD ARBORIST! Stop doing that!
Some of the very points being made in the video.
@@ClimbingArborist
Oh thank goodness you stopped doing that.
Be honest, the Lorax had a little talk with you, didn't he.
I think it’s effective as end of life treatment for a few problems. Such as a retrenchment plan. This can work if you wish to encourage a spar lower down. But major kudos for covering this. Not many do.
Retrenchment pruning was one thing that I didn’t mention. Although if someone is considering retrenchment pruning they likely know much more about this topic that most anyway
0+
@@kaseycoble8916 ?
One of the things I'd like to have seen Dan maybe is comment or discussion of what can be done with regard to "retraining" storm damaged or topped trees/ conifers. We've had good luck topping main stems (up to about 6 - 12") that have gone all wild after big snow damage. We angle cut the main stem a bit, above and close to a branch or whorl we can then use as another "stem" - this is tied up with a stick(s) (I've found 2 - 3" cornice moulding is good for this because of a concave side to the tree stem/ branch) and in most cases after a year or two it'll become the main leader. If the branch is thicker, we've started them out loosely tied and once a month tie the branch closer and closer to vertical. Some of the trees have weak apical dominance, so every two years or so, in early spring they should have a trip up with the long reach pruners to nip any competing buds or candles and discourage competing upwards growth. Takes an hour up, snip snip and down. In most cases we've been able to "train" real wrecks of conifers doing this - some have ended up with maybe a "trunk wiggle" 15 yrs later where the surgery was carried out but I've yet to have the big decay problems of a flat topping cut in the main stem as you've shown. Maybe an option. Cheers and stay safe out there.
Some great insight to ideas of dealing with damaged trees. This video was intended to be simple and to the point, showing what can and will happen after topping. Your ideas sound great, but sound very specialist to those excellent companies that go above and beyond their call of duty, like you obviously do.
When I started out 20 + plus years ago French Pollarding was a thing. Basically you reduced to knuckles on main scaffold limbs and maintained them to that area. Street trees for eg. But never on mature Beech's,Birches etc. Unfortunately the rule of thirds is very often ignored by people trying to make money and the chaps comment about the hardest part is saying no is true.
Nice work man. Good to see someone explain this thoroughly..... that poor beech tree tho
That Beech tree breaks my heart
How do we keep lawn maintenance teams from topping trees. Can you recommend signage? They are over- zealous and too small trees! 😢
Thoroughly enjoy your content Dan, so informative and captivating.
Keep up the good work bud 👍🏼 ❤🇬🇧
Thanks Paul, that is very kind 👍
Thank you, keep 'em coming bud 👍🏼❤🇬🇧
Cut them down. Topping trees waste of money
Seen maple and sycamore trees topped,and in a couple of years they was beautiful,forming a globe shape
Nice
All you say sounds right (boye).
👍
Maybe it's a regional thing but here in western PA many people still think tree topping is not bad. It feels like an uphill fight sometimes to get the right information out there.
Every arborist have to read "tree pruning" from Alex Shigo
Gorilla Glue works like magic
You forgot solar panels ☝
First class explanation & illustration. And suitable for showing householders too. Both thumbs up!
Please feel free to share with anyone that it might benefit
Awesome video brother
👍
Thank you
👍
ax9njt
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