i just followed what you said and did,added 10 feet of beer line,it works and i am happy,no calculating or anything,just did what you did thanks,pretty much perfect now
My man is a genius. He is what we would have considered a "nerd" back in the day. As we get older we appreciate you all who make the home brew world go round!
Larry, buddy! Lars here. Thanks for the advice! I was running into this problem and I implemented this solution you mentioned in the video. At first I had a bit of a problem because all that extra line ran down by the kegerator coils and froze the beer. I thought I did something wrong, but once I noticed it I moved the line and all was better. I would say I've reduce the foam by about 70% I have some more tweaking to do. Anyway, I'm also in the Chicago area (Aurora actually) and I also love beer, brewing, and bbq so hopefully we will run into each other this summer! I've subscribed and I look forward to future videos. My wife saw you and said "you two are cut from the same cloth." hahaha! Thanks again!
Larry. I am a Brit and as you know we like our beer warmer than you chaps across the water. This vid was fantastic as it explained a cure for the problem but we get over the it by having smaller beer pipes going to an even smaller one by the tap. This fixes the problem using the same priciples you mention in the video. Anyway Cheers. Steve
Larry I was telling my guy at the beer store where I buy my kegs that I wasting beer because I get way to much foam and Explained that I seen this video on You Tube that I should make the hose longer, He said "Your Fu#king Crazy!" I never heard of such a thing!! Well guess what I added a 10 foot hose and the foaming problem is GONE!!!! No More Waist and a perfect pour every time! Thank You!! Thank You!!
Just found your video. I have a kegerator and running about 12psi. Always had lots of foam from day 1. The hoses are probably no where near 10 feet, thinking that may be my problem. I’m gonna give it a shot at changing them.
I just added 10’ lines to my dual draft setup. Have pressure at kegs set to 10psi at kegs and now pour speed is perfect, eliminating the foam!! THANKS!!!!!
I haven't home brewed in years but when I did I kegged. This got me started with all of the plumbing and the convenience of getting my beer from a tap. Then, I found out I could just go to the store and buy a keg of really good (commercial) beer. Anyway, I have a tap in my wet bar from a fridge in the garage on the other side of the wall. I went with the shortest line I could use to get from A to B. I always have to purge the line and pour some beer down the drain in order to minimize the foaming head (I call this alcohol abuse). Now, with your help, I find I need about 10 feet of line instead of 3. I will try this and see if it reduces the wastage and abuse. Thank you for your technical assistance.
Did the calculations and needed 11.9' of 3/16 hose instead of the 5' it came with. NO FOAM!!! I get a nice flow and head on my beer. Not bad for my 3td pour on my first Keg. Thanks for the video...
Great info Larry! I'm gradually nearing the point of completing my kegging system so I can finally start brewing, so I've watched a lot of your videos. Thanks for the help!
This makes perfect sense about the hose length. I’ve got a 6 foot tube now. The foam isn’t unbearable, but it’s still annoying. I’m going to replace my tubing tomorrow.
BEER-N-BBQ by Larry me too. I’m glad I stumbled across your channel. It seems like you have a decent amount of knowledge compiled here. I look forward to perusing your videos!
Bless your brewing heart. I have struggled with this for a couple of years. I bought flow control faucets to resolve foaming having absolutely NO understanding of balancing draft systems. My existing lines are John Guest and 6 mm ID. I just added 3.04M of 3/16 ID vinyl in my lager line. Let’s see what happens. Thanks in advance for your advice.
Thanks for the video, if priming the keg with sugar you can have too much pressure. I find ales are very sensitive to pressure. 1bar max. Gauge and bleed off excessive pressure stabilize over a day or 2. Hose length hanging down below the liquid level can also be an issue. My tap is in fridge and is just 5' long. For me 1st thing is cold, 2nd 1bar pressure.
I ran across the same issue when using online calculators. But prior to looking for a calculator, I'd heard recommendations of 10' lines. So basically, I just went with 10' lines and they work well. What I need to address now is keeping the lines (and faucets) at the same temp as the keg (first pour is foamy). I have a home-built keezer and need to work out air circulation. Not a big deal, but need to get it done.
The warming of the last couple of feet are the bane of draft tower style kegerators like mine. Keeping it chilled to the same temperature as the keg is nearly impoosible no matter what I've tried over the years including buying a new kegerator with a cooling fan blowing directly up the tower. I may resort to building a keezer where I have more flexibility to fix the problem. Good luck!
Thank you for the video Larry! My lines were way too short! Now I can pour a pint and not have to dump a half cup of foam off the top, or wait 20 minutes for the head to go down.
Larry this is great...Im a bit of a noob to kegging and followed all the steps here ...doubled my line to 10 ft, have it at 40F, line above keg and psi rt now at 10 but still seems to come out very fast and almost all foam...could it be I haven't let it carbonate long enough? I force carbed at 30p for 2 days and have had it at 10 for last two days
Thanks for the video Larry. Just upgraded to a dual tap tower. The hoses are about 5 feet. Is it tough to get these hoses changed when the connections are up inside the tower?
Are you keeping your pressure at 12 lb the whole time? I carbonate at that and serve at about 5psi. Are these calculations assuming you're serving at 12psi?
BEER-N-BBQ by Larry Thanks for the reply. I've used your spreadsheet and went out and gotten 10' of hose. Now I keep everything at 12lbs. Carbonation and foam now under control. Do you find that your pours are slower than when you had a shorter hose?
Is it possible to use a restriction in a shorter line to create a pressure drop rather than a longer line? Or will the sudden pressure drop across the restriction cause the beer to foam at that point?
Great video Larry. I'm building my own custom Kiwi beer fridge with taps inside with 3 quality 5gallon/ 19Litre Corny kegs and good quality taps and regulator. Your video has helped me make some good design choices in my build. I will be adding 10Ft, 3.2metres plus tubing to my build. Try some lamb cooked on the BBQ seasoned with rosemary and sea salt and sliced and drizzled with mint sauce and served with salad. Enjoy and thanks again.
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but you're just talking about the beer line, right? Not the CO2 line? So I use the spreadsheet to figure out the length of hose from my keg to the tap.
thanks, Larry I have this problem at the moment but as you said I am only using 4 foot of line so I will rectify that and get back to you, again great video keep up the good work. :)
Love the spreadsheet, just wondering whether it would it be possible to provide a metric version for all the non Americans? It would be greatly appreciated :)
I ended up making a separate column on the spreadsheet where I could put the units in bar, cm, and metres and centigrade. I then put a conversion formula in where the imperial inputs were. Given that almost the entire world uses metric, it may be worth considering making future units a little more internationally friendly. Once again cheers for the spreadsheet!
Hey Larry! Can you make a video/spread sheet explaining how to carbonate at the specific pressure (you mentioned 2.5 in this video but what if you wanted a 2 or other value). Also something about force carbonation? Thanks!
I enjoyed this video. I'm new to kegerators/home-brewing ---- what do you do with 10ft of beer line inside that small kegerator? Does it matter how it's wrapped or where it's set?
Thank you! So I bought a Michelob Ultra 1/2 barrel last week. I have 10' of 3/16" ID beer line and am using a Bev Air BM23 (single tower direct draw). Beer is 36 degrees liquid temp. I have messed with pressure (10, 12, 13, etc.) and I cannot get a good pour. Not even with my Perlick flow control faucet. Beer looks good in the lines; I don't see any bubbles in there. Any ideas? I cannot seem to find the v/v of Michelob Ultra, but I'm guessing volumes of co2 is around 2.5. I downloaded the spreadsheet....I'm good with math, functions in excel, etc.....I was thinking about trying to change the output from length of beer line to desired pressure, and keeping my beer line at 10 feet for all beers. Does that make sense?
Thank you for your quick reply. I think I may have a bad seal/o-ring on my Perlick faucet. Even though it's brand new, it drips after I'm done pouring a beer. I need to disassemble and look. I will definitely look at that brewing recipe template spreadsheet ---- I see it on your website under Tools & Calculators. Thanks for the help! Happy Halloween
Thanks got it sorted, had the wrong imperial measurement plugged in the hose length chart, ( 5mm - 0.1968in ) calculated length was 12.73ft - 3.880 metres.
Hi Larry. Great video and amazing spreadsheet. Some of the inputs can be ignored since its variance is minimal on hose lenght... I have one question...if I like to serve faster the hose size is shorter. However this will give back foam. Not sure if that parameter should be in the spreadsheet. Rgds and keep the amazing work
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY yes I know. What I was trying to say is if I want to pour a pint in 3 seconds it will suggest to reduce the hose however it will bring back the foam. I believe speed should be fixed... 😊
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY that is exactly my point. There should not be a variable in the spreadsheet where I can wrongly setup a 3 seconds option. Otherwise it will cause foam and the purpose is to avoid this. Cheers!
LOL. I never said I don't use draft towers. I have TWO. I say I don't like them. They cause foam in beer. Flow control faucets can be more of a problem than a solution to the point that I've gone back to using regular faucets to reduce foaming that FC faucets create.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Thanks for the reply, Larry! That's interesting about the flow control faucets *causing* foam. I just received a couple so I'll give them a go and see if helps or hurts my foaming situation. I also got some more beer line, nailed my liquid temperature in the kegerator and have a tower fan on the way. If I remember, I'll post back on how it all works out. My foaming issue is mainly on a raspberry beer that needs a little higher PSI than my usual beers. Thanks again!
@@joshuapinter They can cause foam due to how they work by constricting flow through an orifice which creates more turbulence and therefore more gas coming out of solution. Also due to an object in the middle of the flow path. It’s made worse by higher flow rates which is why I say that you still need to balance the line even with a FC faucet. It’s only for minor adjustments. If have a long enough line to balance the flow rate then a FC faucet can be used to tweak the flow a little bit without much concern. But with too short of a line, you have to turn down the restriction so far that all you get is foam coming out of the faucet instead of it forming in the glass during a poor.
hello,i am finally going to start kegging,there is so much out there on reducing foam when kegging.i have a regular older fridge that i am using as a beer fridge,lets say 20 years old with the freezer on top,so i am going to use this,ok so i ramble.... is 8 feet enough with the taps either level with the kegs or just below the kegs..between 6 and 8 feet...which seems like a lot to me
Larry, I was wondering if I need to increase the length of the C02 hose as well as the tube the beer flows through? It looks like you had quite a bit of CO2 hose also in your kegerator.
Excelent video. Looking at my fluids book (I'm a ME as well) I see the energy balance equation has a correction factor which is typically ignored because it is close to 1 for turbulent flow. It ranges from 1.04 to 1.11 and it changes kinetic energy to: (alpha)(v1/2g). this should not make a significant different but it's interesting.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY your spreadsheet are awesome! If you ever need help let me know. Also, back to fluids, you can add minor losses in pipe flow (Kl) to compensate for fittings, valves, bends, elbows, tees, inlets, expansion and/or contractions, etc. It makes sense to ignore them because they're minor and every set up is different but good to know they're there.
I went to 10 feet of 3/16 hose and foam problem is gone. I pours slowly but I will experiment with that on next keg. Wish I had seen this video years ago.
Hi Larry, here from Argentina! Thanks a lot for this. I used the sheet to calculate the lenght, I have a 3/8" hose, outside diameter, the inner diameter is 1/4". Using this values the necessary lenght is more than 30 feet, 12 PSI and 3 feet height from keg to tap. It seems a lot and the hose is similar to yours in the video, what do you think?
My tower is a pain to change out the multiple hoses. Is it possible to double the beer line length by adding hose, via a barbed inline fitting? Or does the restriction when the beer gets to the fitting, then the increased line diameter after it passes the fitting mess things up? Thanks.
My first second or two of beer is foamy from what accumulates in the line. Everything after that is ok. Is this the issue everyone is having and will this correct that also?
Hey Larry, great information. I click on the spreadsheet and I cannot download it. May just be my iPhone. Let me know if you are letting people download it
Hey, thanks for the info. So I have plenty of tube length, my issue is that Im running the line from my kegerator in a separate room, under ground (fed through PVC underneath my basement floor) and up through underneath my sink to the tap on my counter top...so most of the line isn't being refrigerated (although most is underground, so not exposed to room temp air). Im getting quite a bit of foam, and Im thinking perhaps it's due to the beer in the line not being cold enough? Ive tried PSI anywhere from 4-15, and the temp in my kegerator is about 40 d (air temp). Ive also seen articles pointing some blame to a faulty probe washer in the Sankey coupler?.. Anyways, any insight is apprecaited!
You definitely need an insulated refrigerated beer line all the way from the keg to the tap, or else the beer will be too warm and the gas will come out of solution making warm foam until the warm beer leaves the line and the line is rechilled which will eat up a lot of your beer in the process. Also, having warm beer in those lines will cause mold and bacteria to grow in the lines. It’s similar to a draft tower issue with warm beer in the tower causing foam on the first pour because it’s warmer than in the fridge except your issue is amplified greatly.
Larry, thank you for sharing this with everyone! Heads up, i tried downloading the spreadsheet from a link on your websites downloads page but the link is broken.
Interesting, I’ve been trying to research why my beer is so foamy and everything I found said to SHORTEN the length of hose from keg to tap….also heard that diameter of hose is important as well. I just shortened my tap hoses from about 5ft to about 2ft. We’ll see how it does but it looks like I might need to buy new hose 🙃
Just about all of those rule of thumb estimators for beer line length are wrong by a factor of magnitude. My spreadsheet accounts for line ID as well. In general, use the smallest ID hose you can if you have a kegerator/keezer while larger IDs are used in bars and restaurants where very long line lengths are required. Smaller ID hoses allow for shorter runs. Also beware of flow restrictions including flow control faucets. They can release CO2 causing foam as well.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I defiantly think the length is my problem. ill be taking a look at your calculator and hopefully be getting some better pours soon. Thanks for the video!!
I hate math and equations unfortunately its the way of life LOL. But somehow you always manage to explain things so I can understand it and which I know it's going to fix my problem. Thanks again Larry! Great video!
Yesterday I got my kegerator set it up got nothing but foam bought it used thought it wasn't getting cold so I let it get cold 24 hours and now no more foam issues so if you just got yours just give it time
I’ve bundled it with my brewing spreadsheet available at beernbbqbylarry.com/downloads/ It does both metric and US Customary nowadays. Not sure if it’s a converted for this specific tab though. If not, it’s a simple conversion to do.
yeah I tried MULTIPLE online calcs at other websites. All are just horrifically wrong. I was getting negative values... for us home brewers our keg pressure IS our serving pressure typically. Im at about 12psi as well and ~2.6ish volume of co2 which is again typical for most beers served here in the US. ~10ft line length. Just ordered the parts for my keezer too so spent an extra 10 bucks for the flow control perlicks. Should give me enough flexability if I want to try a higher carbed hefe without needing 20ft lines :)
Typical final gravity of an Irish extra stout is between 1.010-1.014. The other variables are up to you and your system. If you just want to wing it, start with a long length, test it, cut a bit, retest, etc.
Beer line only. That is where the friction from beer flow is occurring. Gas lines are not a factor since pressure is equal everywhere in a fixed volume.
Hey Larry, I just got my first keg with the CO2 tank and a picnic tap. I have no fridge to chill the beer, and the line is fairly short. I have NO idea what to do. A kegerator to buy is probably another $500, and with my daughters prom coming up I just don't have a lot of cash. I was considering buying an older used refrigerator and modifying it to be a kegerator, but that still takes money and time. Any suggestions?
Instead of using a longer tube you should use a section of small diameter tubing - it will increase the fluid resistance in the same way and you don't leave beer sitting in a line.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY There is smaller diameter pressure and food safe tubing available that is not marketed for beer, although you may have trouble finding adapters.
hi there, txs in advance for the help, just wondering the length of the Co2 line should be about the same like the beer line? in ur example u used a 10ft for the beer and looks like u have more red line there. txs
I was actually going to ask the SAME question, but I'm glad I decided to scroll through the comments before I asked this question again! 👍🏽 Thanks again Larry for another great video and tutorial for us home brewers and kegerator owners. I work in finance, so numbers are always a great reference and tool to fix issues, I only wish that I would have researched more for this calculator that you provided for us all. Thanks again! -The Hopxican
Hey Larry - thanks for the advice, I've got a 10ft of tubing now and the foaming issue is resolved. I still have one issue though (which happened even with my 6ft of tubing) - the first beer of the evening seems to have really low carbonation, but the subsequent beers are perfect. Is it normal for the first beer to be lower in carbonation?
If using a draft tower, yes, and also very foamy too. This is because the carbonation has left the beer in the line due to being warmer than the beer in the keg, and comes out that underneath and foamy on top until the cold beer from the keg chills the line back down and returned the flowing beer back to equilibrium.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY This settles my design thoughts. I'm going to be building a keezer fairly soon. No draft tower for me, I'll be keeping the beer lines cold to the tap! I'm thinking that I'll make sure my lines I buy are at least 10' long. Thanks.
Hi Larry, I had a 12ft line and was getting lots of foam. Guy at the local brewery did some calculations and said I should get a 4ft line. Now it is pouring really fast with lots of foam! When I plugged into Mike Solty's website, I get 7 ft (though I have no idea what temp he is using and I can't control my flow rate very well). Any ideas?
What size tubing are you using 3/16 - 4.76mm or 1/4 - 6.35mm, just about finished my kegerator project and using your tube length chart. I plugged in values similar to yours. I changed hose diameter to 1/4 - 6.35mm and got 39.9ft which is 12.161metres? Or 3/16 - 4.75mm got 10.1ft just over 3 metres. Which size tubing is better to use?
So I just changed out my line to 10’ using your info and my Keg is balanced now. Thanks!
Excellent. Glad it worked for you.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Thanks again!
Does it go flat sitting in the line though?
No.
Mike soltys here! Glad you found this useful and thanks for the shout out!
Hey there! You're welcome. Your solution to the problem helped a lot of people.
Thx to both of you!
LARRY YOU ARE DOING THE LORDS WORK BUD DONT STOP
i just followed what you said and did,added 10 feet of beer line,it works and i am happy,no calculating or anything,just did what you did thanks,pretty much perfect now
My man is a genius. He is what we would have considered a "nerd" back in the day. As we get older we appreciate you all who make the home brew world go round!
Knowledge is power
BTW I just ordered new hoses....should the CO2 hose be longer too?
@@danb1391 gas line does not matter.
Larry, buddy! Lars here. Thanks for the advice! I was running into this problem and I implemented this solution you mentioned in the video. At first I had a bit of a problem because all that extra line ran down by the kegerator coils and froze the beer. I thought I did something wrong, but once I noticed it I moved the line and all was better. I would say I've reduce the foam by about 70% I have some more tweaking to do. Anyway, I'm also in the Chicago area (Aurora actually) and I also love beer, brewing, and bbq so hopefully we will run into each other this summer! I've subscribed and I look forward to future videos. My wife saw you and said "you two are cut from the same cloth." hahaha! Thanks again!
Larry. I am a Brit and as you know we like our beer warmer than you chaps across the water. This vid was fantastic as it explained a cure for the problem but we get over the it by having smaller beer pipes going to an even smaller one by the tap. This fixes the problem using the same priciples you mention in the video.
Anyway Cheers.
Steve
Jenna Harrison thats what i told him but i like my beer freezing cold so narrow down to 3.16 and no probs
Thank you! I was able to fix my foam issue by following your advice and using the references you provided. Great community service!
Larry I was telling my guy at the beer store where I buy my kegs that I wasting beer because I get way to much foam and Explained that I seen this video on You Tube that I should make the hose longer, He said "Your Fu#king Crazy!" I never heard of such a thing!! Well guess what I added a 10 foot hose and the foaming problem is GONE!!!! No More Waist and a perfect pour every time! Thank You!! Thank You!!
Just found your video. I have a kegerator and running about 12psi. Always had lots of foam from day 1. The hoses are probably no where near 10 feet, thinking that may be my problem. I’m gonna give it a shot at changing them.
I just added 10’ lines to my dual draft setup. Have pressure at kegs set to 10psi at kegs and now pour speed is perfect, eliminating the foam!! THANKS!!!!!
Excellent. Another great success story!
Glad you got it working better.
I haven't home brewed in years but when I did I kegged. This got me started with all of the plumbing and the convenience of getting my beer from a tap. Then, I found out I could just go to the store and buy a keg of really good (commercial) beer. Anyway, I have a tap in my wet bar from a fridge in the garage on the other side of the wall. I went with the shortest line I could use to get from A to B. I always have to purge the line and pour some beer down the drain in order to minimize the foaming head (I call this alcohol abuse). Now, with your help, I find I need about 10 feet of line instead of 3. I will try this and see if it reduces the wastage and abuse. Thank you for your technical assistance.
I have been struggling for years.....this video was divine intervention. Thank you so much for breaking it down and making it easy.
Cg is c
Did the calculations and needed 11.9' of 3/16 hose instead of the 5' it came with. NO FOAM!!! I get a nice flow and head on my beer. Not bad for my 3td pour on my first Keg. Thanks for the video...
You’re welcome!
Just on the mark how you breakdown your facts.Can't stop watching your videos.
Great info Larry! I'm gradually nearing the point of completing my kegging system so I can finally start brewing, so I've watched a lot of your videos. Thanks for the help!
This was really interesting. Some day I hope to graduate to a keg system. I'm still bottling and using sugar to carbonate.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY i.never bottled I went straight 2 kegs ....thank God lol
This makes perfect sense about the hose length. I’ve got a 6 foot tube now. The foam isn’t unbearable, but it’s still annoying. I’m going to replace my tubing tomorrow.
BEER-N-BBQ by Larry me too. I’m glad I stumbled across your channel. It seems like you have a decent amount of knowledge compiled here. I look forward to perusing your videos!
Larry you are SUCH a beer nerd....but as a fellow engineer I love it!!
Awesome video. I just cleaned my kegerator after 5 years. I always had foam. I’ll give this a go. Thanks.
Bless your brewing heart. I have struggled with this for a couple of years. I bought flow control faucets to resolve foaming having absolutely NO understanding of balancing draft systems. My existing lines are John Guest and 6 mm ID. I just added 3.04M of 3/16 ID vinyl in my lager line. Let’s see what happens. Thanks in advance for your advice.
Thanks for the video, if priming the keg with sugar you can have too much pressure. I find ales are very sensitive to pressure. 1bar max. Gauge and bleed off excessive pressure stabilize over a day or 2. Hose length hanging down below the liquid level can also be an issue. My tap is in fridge and is just 5' long. For me 1st thing is cold, 2nd 1bar pressure.
I ran across the same issue when using online calculators. But prior to looking for a calculator, I'd heard recommendations of 10' lines. So basically, I just went with 10' lines and they work well. What I need to address now is keeping the lines (and faucets) at the same temp as the keg (first pour is foamy). I have a home-built keezer and need to work out air circulation. Not a big deal, but need to get it done.
The warming of the last couple of feet are the bane of draft tower style kegerators like mine. Keeping it chilled to the same temperature as the keg is nearly impoosible no matter what I've tried over the years including buying a new kegerator with a cooling fan blowing directly up the tower. I may resort to building a keezer where I have more flexibility to fix the problem. Good luck!
awesome man! I'm also a fellow engineer. I appreciate all you do and I love your channel. It's ridiculous how much I watch.
That worked very well. Thanks for sharing the science. Wasn’t even aware of the concept of balancing a draft system.
thanks for the vid! i'm going to be making my own keggerator and this information was such a great help. informative as always.
Thank you for the video Larry!
My lines were way too short! Now I can pour a pint and not have to dump a half cup of foam off the top, or wait 20 minutes for the head to go down.
Hello Larry and thank you for sharing this. I have a question. are these metrics calculated in sea level?
great video.one question, how should the line be stored? bottom? top?
Kinda love how real this video is. Appreciate it man
Best video I’ve seen about this yet.
Larry this is great...Im a bit of a noob to kegging and followed all the steps here ...doubled my line to 10 ft, have it at 40F, line above keg and psi rt now at 10 but still seems to come out very fast and almost all foam...could it be I haven't let it carbonate long enough?
I force carbed at 30p for 2 days and have had it at 10 for last two days
Thanks for the video Larry. Just upgraded to a dual tap tower. The hoses are about 5 feet. Is it tough to get these hoses changed when the connections are up inside the tower?
Are you keeping your pressure at 12 lb the whole time? I carbonate at that and serve at about 5psi. Are these calculations assuming you're serving at 12psi?
BEER-N-BBQ by Larry Thanks for the reply. I've used your spreadsheet and went out and gotten 10' of hose. Now I keep everything at 12lbs. Carbonation and foam now under control. Do you find that your pours are slower than when you had a shorter hose?
Is it possible to use a restriction in a shorter line to create a pressure drop rather than a longer line? Or will the sudden pressure drop across the restriction cause the beer to foam at that point?
Larry, thanks for the video and the spreadsheet, very informative! I'm looking forward to putting this to good use.
Thanks Larry. you solved my problem so quick. Beer pouring perfect now.
Great video Larry. I'm building my own custom Kiwi beer fridge with taps inside with 3 quality 5gallon/ 19Litre Corny kegs and good quality taps and regulator. Your video has helped me make some good design choices in my build. I will be adding 10Ft, 3.2metres plus tubing to my build. Try some lamb cooked on the BBQ seasoned with rosemary and sea salt and sliced and drizzled with mint sauce and served with salad. Enjoy and thanks again.
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but you're just talking about the beer line, right? Not the CO2 line? So I use the spreadsheet to figure out the length of hose from my keg to the tap.
Yes. Don’t worry. You’re not the first to ask that. 🙂
Brand new owner of a Kegerator... going to give it a try....
thanks, Larry I have this problem at the moment but as you said I am only using 4 foot of line so I will rectify that and get back to you, again great video keep up the good work. :)
Larry, please explain why you do not go for a smaller inner diameter and therfore need much less line?
Love the spreadsheet, just wondering whether it would it be possible to provide a metric version for all the non Americans? It would be greatly appreciated :)
I ended up making a separate column on the spreadsheet where I could put the units in bar, cm, and metres and centigrade. I then put a conversion formula in where the imperial inputs were. Given that almost the entire world uses metric, it may be worth considering making future units a little more internationally friendly. Once again cheers for the spreadsheet!
Hey Larry!
Can you make a video/spread sheet explaining how to carbonate at the specific pressure (you mentioned 2.5 in this video but what if you wanted a 2 or other value). Also something about force carbonation?
Thanks!
Thanks Larry, can’t wait to try this, cheers !
I enjoyed this video. I'm new to kegerators/home-brewing ---- what do you do with 10ft of beer line inside that small kegerator? Does it matter how it's wrapped or where it's set?
Thank you! So I bought a Michelob Ultra 1/2 barrel last week. I have 10' of 3/16" ID beer line and am using a Bev Air BM23 (single tower direct draw). Beer is 36 degrees liquid temp. I have messed with pressure (10, 12, 13, etc.) and I cannot get a good pour. Not even with my Perlick flow control faucet. Beer looks good in the lines; I don't see any bubbles in there. Any ideas? I cannot seem to find the v/v of Michelob Ultra, but I'm guessing volumes of co2 is around 2.5. I downloaded the spreadsheet....I'm good with math, functions in excel, etc.....I was thinking about trying to change the output from length of beer line to desired pressure, and keeping my beer line at 10 feet for all beers. Does that make sense?
Thank you for your quick reply. I think I may have a bad seal/o-ring on my Perlick faucet. Even though it's brand new, it drips after I'm done pouring a beer. I need to disassemble and look. I will definitely look at that brewing recipe template spreadsheet ---- I see it on your website under Tools & Calculators. Thanks for the help! Happy Halloween
Larry, with reference to "vertical distance", would that number be calculated the same for side mounted taps on my fridge?
Great video Larry. Does the length of the CO2 line matter too or is it just the beer line length? Thanks!
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I appreciate it.
So awesome, thanks man, I been pouring ice cream for days now!
Thanks got it sorted, had the wrong imperial measurement plugged in the hose length chart, ( 5mm - 0.1968in ) calculated length was 12.73ft - 3.880 metres.
Hey mate, great idea!
What's the chance of making a spreadsheet using metric (psi is Ok) for people in metric countries?
Cheers from Aus Yt2...
Not likely nowadays, but you can easily convert your inputs to US Customary and outputs to Metric as a workaround.
Thanks, I saw your directions on your V3 video. I’m on the other side of the world at 0 dark thirty & missed your description on this video.
Hi Larry. Great video and amazing spreadsheet.
Some of the inputs can be ignored since its variance is minimal on hose lenght...
I have one question...if I like to serve faster the hose size is shorter. However this will give back foam. Not sure if that parameter should be in the spreadsheet.
Rgds and keep the amazing work
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY yes I know. What I was trying to say is if I want to pour a pint in 3 seconds it will suggest to reduce the hose however it will bring back the foam. I believe speed should be fixed... 😊
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY that is exactly my point. There should not be a variable in the spreadsheet where I can wrongly setup a 3 seconds option. Otherwise it will cause foam and the purpose is to avoid this. Cheers!
Thoughts on flow control faucets?
Also, you said don't use beer towers and then you are using a beer tower at the end of the videos. Hmm...
LOL. I never said I don't use draft towers. I have TWO. I say I don't like them. They cause foam in beer.
Flow control faucets can be more of a problem than a solution to the point that I've gone back to using regular faucets to reduce foaming that FC faucets create.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Thanks for the reply, Larry! That's interesting about the flow control faucets *causing* foam. I just received a couple so I'll give them a go and see if helps or hurts my foaming situation. I also got some more beer line, nailed my liquid temperature in the kegerator and have a tower fan on the way. If I remember, I'll post back on how it all works out. My foaming issue is mainly on a raspberry beer that needs a little higher PSI than my usual beers. Thanks again!
@@joshuapinter They can cause foam due to how they work by constricting flow through an orifice which creates more turbulence and therefore more gas coming out of solution. Also due to an object in the middle of the flow path. It’s made worse by higher flow rates which is why I say that you still need to balance the line even with a FC faucet. It’s only for minor adjustments. If have a long enough line to balance the flow rate then a FC faucet can be used to tweak the flow a little bit without much concern. But with too short of a line, you have to turn down the restriction so far that all you get is foam coming out of the faucet instead of it forming in the glass during a poor.
In the spreadsheet you input 3/16" tubing. That beer line that you are showing is way bigger than that.
It is indeed 3/16 inch ID beer line.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY Ah, ok. The thin beer lines I buy at my local shop is 3/16" OUTER diameter. All good then!
hello,i am finally going to start kegging,there is so much out there on reducing foam when kegging.i have a regular older fridge that i am using as a beer fridge,lets say 20 years old with the freezer on top,so i am going to use this,ok so i ramble.... is 8 feet enough with the taps either level with the kegs or just below the kegs..between 6 and 8 feet...which seems like a lot to me
Thanks great info! Question, where did u get the hose, does it have to be a hose especially for that type of application?
Best sequence of videos I've seen. Thanks for the help!
Thanks. That really clarifies the issues. I will use the spread sheet and go hose shopping.
Great video, any ideas why my regulator is blowing out the release valve? Thanks
Hello Larry!! thank you for all the videos. How do you carbonate your beer?
Love the Jazz music at the start of this series of videos, what is it please?
Larry, I was wondering if I need to increase the length of the C02 hose as well as the tube the beer flows through? It looks like you had quite a bit of CO2 hose also in your kegerator.
Excelent video. Looking at my fluids book (I'm a ME as well) I see the energy balance equation has a correction factor which is typically ignored because it is close to 1 for turbulent flow. It ranges from 1.04 to 1.11 and it changes kinetic energy to: (alpha)(v1/2g). this should not make a significant different but it's interesting.
That is interesting. I haven't done fluids work in many years. I had to brush up on it just to get this much done.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY your spreadsheet are awesome! If you ever need help let me know. Also, back to fluids, you can add minor losses in pipe flow (Kl) to compensate for fittings, valves, bends, elbows, tees, inlets, expansion and/or contractions, etc. It makes sense to ignore them because they're minor and every set up is different but good to know they're there.
Awesome vid!! Did you increase the length of your co2 lines as well?
I went to 10 feet of 3/16 hose and foam problem is gone. I pours slowly but I will experiment with that on next keg. Wish I had seen this video years ago.
Hi Larry, here from Argentina! Thanks a lot for this. I used the sheet to calculate the lenght, I have a 3/8" hose, outside diameter, the inner diameter is 1/4". Using this values the necessary lenght is more than 30 feet, 12 PSI and 3 feet height from keg to tap. It seems a lot and the hose is similar to yours in the video, what do you think?
BEER-N-BBQ by Larry thank you very much
My tower is a pain to change out the multiple hoses. Is it possible to double the beer line length by adding hose, via a barbed inline fitting?
Or does the restriction when the beer gets to the fitting, then the increased line diameter after it passes the fitting mess things up?
Thanks.
My first second or two of beer is foamy from what accumulates in the line. Everything after that is ok. Is this the issue everyone is having and will this correct that also?
Hey Larry, great information. I click on the spreadsheet and I cannot download it. May just be my iPhone. Let me know if you are letting people download it
hey larry, how similar do you think the spreadsheet math will transfer to long draw systems like in restaurants? thanks for the great video
Hey, thanks for the info. So I have plenty of tube length, my issue is that Im running the line from my kegerator in a separate room, under ground (fed through PVC underneath my basement floor) and up through underneath my sink to the tap on my counter top...so most of the line isn't being refrigerated (although most is underground, so not exposed to room temp air). Im getting quite a bit of foam, and Im thinking perhaps it's due to the beer in the line not being cold enough? Ive tried PSI anywhere from 4-15, and the temp in my kegerator is about 40 d (air temp). Ive also seen articles pointing some blame to a faulty probe washer in the Sankey coupler?.. Anyways, any insight is apprecaited!
You definitely need an insulated refrigerated beer line all the way from the keg to the tap, or else the beer will be too warm and the gas will come out of solution making warm foam until the warm beer leaves the line and the line is rechilled which will eat up a lot of your beer in the process. Also, having warm beer in those lines will cause mold and bacteria to grow in the lines.
It’s similar to a draft tower issue with warm beer in the tower causing foam on the first pour because it’s warmer than in the fridge except your issue is amplified greatly.
When it comes to math he is always spot on
Larry, thank you for sharing this with everyone! Heads up, i tried downloading the spreadsheet from a link on your websites downloads page but the link is broken.
Good Morning, The main problem with my draft system is at the start of a new keg, does this solution will solve that?
Interesting, I’ve been trying to research why my beer is so foamy and everything I found said to SHORTEN the length of hose from keg to tap….also heard that diameter of hose is important as well. I just shortened my tap hoses from about 5ft to about 2ft. We’ll see how it does but it looks like I might need to buy new hose 🙃
Just about all of those rule of thumb estimators for beer line length are wrong by a factor of magnitude. My spreadsheet accounts for line ID as well. In general, use the smallest ID hose you can if you have a kegerator/keezer while larger IDs are used in bars and restaurants where very long line lengths are required. Smaller ID hoses allow for shorter runs. Also beware of flow restrictions including flow control faucets. They can release CO2 causing foam as well.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY I defiantly think the length is my problem. ill be taking a look at your calculator and hopefully be getting some better pours soon. Thanks for the video!!
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY what size id should be used for home use?
3/16 in
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY thanks for responding
Do you cool your tower to help reduce foam? If so what is your setup?
Is that really 3/16 tubing in the end of you video it looks very think. I thought 3/16 is less then 5mm thanks
All I have ever use for beer line is 3/16 ID which is about 4.7 mm.
Thanks for that. Can you seen any problem with using food grade dry ice to fill my gas bottles for my home brew thanks
@@TwinTimber I don't know how you'd do that in practice.
What is the inside diameter of your beer hose? I didn’t catch it on the video.
I hate math and equations unfortunately its the way of life LOL. But somehow you always manage to explain things so I can understand it and which I know it's going to fix my problem. Thanks again Larry! Great video!
Yesterday I got my kegerator set it up got nothing but foam bought it used thought it wasn't getting cold so I let it get cold 24 hours and now no more foam issues so if you just got yours just give it time
Is it possible to get this spreadsheet converted to metric for us Aussies?
I’ve bundled it with my brewing spreadsheet available at beernbbqbylarry.com/downloads/
It does both metric and US Customary nowadays. Not sure if it’s a converted for this specific tab though. If not, it’s a simple conversion to do.
yeah I tried MULTIPLE online calcs at other websites. All are just horrifically wrong. I was getting negative values... for us home brewers our keg pressure IS our serving pressure typically. Im at about 12psi as well and ~2.6ish volume of co2 which is again typical for most beers served here in the US. ~10ft line length.
Just ordered the parts for my keezer too so spent an extra 10 bucks for the flow control perlicks. Should give me enough flexability if I want to try a higher carbed hefe without needing 20ft lines :)
Spot on! My Homebrew store said roughly the same thing. Without the calculator
Thanks for the link to the formulas very helpful
What would the calculations be for a Stout like Guinness. (I.e.) Hose length, hose i.d. diameter, psi ?
Typical final gravity of an Irish extra stout is between 1.010-1.014. The other variables are up to you and your system.
If you just want to wing it, start with a long length, test it, cut a bit, retest, etc.
Great info!!
Thanks yet again Larry!
-Bobby
Longer beer lines only or also co2 lines as well?
Beer line only. That is where the friction from beer flow is occurring. Gas lines are not a factor since pressure is equal everywhere in a fixed volume.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY thank you sir. I’ll be purchasing longer lines on my way home from work.
Thank you Larry for the advice!
Hey Larry,
I just got my first keg with the CO2 tank and a picnic tap. I have no fridge to chill the beer, and the line is fairly short. I have NO idea what to do. A kegerator to buy is probably another $500, and with my daughters prom coming up I just don't have a lot of cash. I was considering buying an older used refrigerator and modifying it to be a kegerator, but that still takes money and time.
Any suggestions?
Instead of using a longer tube you should use a section of small diameter tubing - it will increase the fluid resistance in the same way and you don't leave beer sitting in a line.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY There is smaller diameter pressure and food safe tubing available that is not marketed for beer, although you may have trouble finding adapters.
hi there, txs in advance for the help, just wondering the length of the Co2 line should be about the same like the beer line? in ur example u used a 10ft for the beer and looks like u have more red line there.
txs
I was actually going to ask the SAME question, but I'm glad I decided to scroll through the comments before I asked this question again! 👍🏽 Thanks again Larry for another great video and tutorial for us home brewers and kegerator owners. I work in finance, so numbers are always a great reference and tool to fix issues, I only wish that I would have researched more for this calculator that you provided for us all. Thanks again! -The Hopxican
Where is the spreadsheet link?
I don’t see it anywhere...using an iPad
Will this calculator work for jockey box? I have a 120' coil and my beer pours to foamy, tried with a cold keg tho, please help!
Hey Larry - thanks for the advice, I've got a 10ft of tubing now and the foaming issue is resolved. I still have one issue though (which happened even with my 6ft of tubing) - the first beer of the evening seems to have really low carbonation, but the subsequent beers are perfect. Is it normal for the first beer to be lower in carbonation?
If using a draft tower, yes, and also very foamy too. This is because the carbonation has left the beer in the line due to being warmer than the beer in the keg, and comes out that underneath and foamy on top until the cold beer from the keg chills the line back down and returned the flowing beer back to equilibrium.
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY This settles my design thoughts. I'm going to be building a keezer fairly soon. No draft tower for me, I'll be keeping the beer lines cold to the tap!
I'm thinking that I'll make sure my lines I buy are at least 10' long. Thanks.
@@Javaman92 Draft towers are the Devil.
Hi Larry, I had a 12ft line and was getting lots of foam. Guy at the local brewery did some calculations and said I should get a 4ft line. Now it is pouring really fast with lots of foam! When I plugged into Mike Solty's website, I get 7 ft (though I have no idea what temp he is using and I can't control my flow rate very well). Any ideas?
Hi Larry i have a 19L keg but i only want to fill it with 10L of beer which is a test batch.can i do that or will it be a problem?
@@BEERNBBQBYLARRY thanks for the help appreciate it
Thanks for another informative video Larry!
Great video, Larry!
What size tubing are you using 3/16 - 4.76mm or 1/4 - 6.35mm, just about finished my kegerator project and using your tube length chart. I plugged in values similar to yours. I changed hose diameter to 1/4 - 6.35mm and got 39.9ft which is 12.161metres? Or 3/16 - 4.75mm got 10.1ft just over 3 metres. Which size tubing is better to use?