I'm DONE with Terra Nova!!!

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  • Опубликовано: 1 фев 2025

Комментарии • 325

  • @PaulMessner
    @PaulMessner Год назад +37

    Looks like a manufacturing defect to me mate. I don’t think they’ve got any of the fly material in the seam. They should replace the fly.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +4

      Cheers Paul, a bit more investigation needed I think. I’ll get the seam unpicked and see what’s inside 👍

    • @Ed30675
      @Ed30675 10 месяцев назад

      Completely agree Paul with your comment..... Incidentally i had a similar experience with a Vango Equinox 3 many years ago.... I approached a Vango dealer in Fort William Scotland to ask for their advice and how I should proceed... My tent had only been used a few times and was a recent purchase... Their immediate response was that what happened should not have happened... They said when I return to my home i was to rake the tent back to my local dealer and they would refund me the price of the tent or I could exchange for a replacement Equinox, or I could choose a different tent if I wished... That is exactly what I did.. I returned home and choose a different Vango model.. It was a seemless exchange without any issue at all. Since that purchase two further Vango tents have been bought... If a company treats you well they will get repeat business plus all the recommendations that come from a good experience... The opposite will occur if treated badly....

  • @GrizzlyGaz
    @GrizzlyGaz Год назад +28

    Getting the replacement poles was a "seamless" process.... I see what you did there! Definitely needs more investigating. Unpick the grey material and see how much green fabric is sewn in. Looks to me like the green fly has ripped along the sewing.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +2

      Boom boom!

    • @StoneAgeProductionsAdventure
      @StoneAgeProductionsAdventure Год назад +1

      @@DaleyOutdoors I reckon Terra Nova have not linked your two appeals together and might not be aware of the whole situation when you contacted them the second time. Try contacting them again and start from the beginning telling them when you brought the tent, what happened on your camping trip and that you didn't notice the tearing until after you had already appealed for the replacement pole. Also politely remind them of the guarantee that they have on their website "This Wild Country product is guaranteed to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship for a period of 2 years from purchase.".

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +2

      @@StoneAgeProductionsAdventure they are linked. It’s all part of the same email thread.

  • @andrewfrank5602
    @andrewfrank5602 Год назад +4

    I would love your terra Nova tent. And I'll get my sewing machine out and fix it myself😊.
    And your assessment of the situation is absolutely spot on.
    All the best.

  • @raytaylor4199
    @raytaylor4199 Год назад +15

    That is definitely not your fault, that looks like poor stitching & the manufacturers fault, the way they’ve treated you as a customer is disgraceful, thanks for posting the video, it’s good to know how these companies treat customers, like you said, the tent is a high ticket item and you need full confidence that you’ll get the support if anything like this was to occur, I’ll definitely avoid anything by Terra Nove in the future.

  • @grahamcliffe8672
    @grahamcliffe8672 Год назад +23

    I dont think the stitching has failed, I think the green material has failed. If you look at the edge of the green material it looks serated, these are the holes where the stiches would have been. The areas where there are bits of fabric sticking out are in the middle and the ends where it has the additional reinforcing. In my opinion the green material has ripped like a piece of perforated paper. Check to see if the other 1cm of the bottom of the green material is inside the grey edging strip. I bet it looks the same as the piece you pulled out at around 4 mins 10 of the video.

    • @JasperJanssen
      @JasperJanssen Год назад +6

      Yep, that’s clearly it. The green came out of the grey ribbon in that one place because the stitching had failed there and only there. That was probably the first place that failed in the seam, and the rest was the fabric failing.
      And that seems like a perfectly normal failure mode, frankly. It’s not supposed to be able to take every wind speed possible.

    • @WS_00
      @WS_00 Год назад +1

      @@JasperJanssen what’s a “perfectly normal failure mode”?

    • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
      @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад +1

      Exactly this lad should have spent his time contacting Wild Country rather than making videos

  • @halebopp8439
    @halebopp8439 11 месяцев назад +2

    You are not alone my friend. I'm also done with terra nova. I bought last year a zephyros compact1 tent. The door is too big and the flysheet is too loose. I cna't tight the poles. So the whole tent is a a bit flofy!

  • @Ash12530
    @Ash12530 Год назад +10

    That’s 100% a warranty job on this for a new fly - imo!
    Hope that you get this, so you can move it on if you so wish..
    I’ve had absolutely no quality control issues at all in the last year with my Helm-1, thankfully!
    Certainly looks like the proverbial “Friday afternoon” made product..

  • @kennethcarter5720
    @kennethcarter5720 Год назад +3

    Thanks for sharing. I was just about to buy a terra nova. Will have to rethink this one

  • @stetrainer578
    @stetrainer578 Год назад +10

    I agree with you, there's no way that was stitched properly, the tear was far too clean

  • @chrisb9345
    @chrisb9345 Год назад +3

    The zip on My Terra Nova compact 1 has completely failed on the second time I used it. I have not contacted them yet, but this video has made me consider just buying another brand.

  • @ruairidhalexander7631
    @ruairidhalexander7631 Год назад +17

    Consumer rights act 2015
    If fault occurs in first six months then the fault is assumed to have been present at point of sale
    Retailer must repair or replace the faulty item
    Also bad PR for Terra Nova to argue and claim you damaged the tent

    • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
      @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад

      Yes as a consumer and especially buying an expensive piece of kit then you ought to do your research into what your rights are !
      It’s not difficult as it’s all there at the press of a button

  • @furrowedbrowband
    @furrowedbrowband 2 месяца назад

    Cheers for this I've just been researching the Panacea 1 but I think I'll give it a miss now

  • @thesouthernwoodsmanuk216
    @thesouthernwoodsmanuk216 Год назад

    Thanx for your honesty. This can show what the extreme conditions can do to this particular tent. Take care

  • @ksgonewild
    @ksgonewild Год назад +14

    Hey Ben!! I think it’s shocking customer service! When you pay that much for a tent you expect a high quality product and customer service to match! There’s no way that was stitched properly to begin with. Absolutely shocking!!!

    • @1951woodygeo
      @1951woodygeo Год назад +1

      Exactly they don’t like bad reviews that’s why. That’s tough that’s down to their quality control.

  • @KandCoutdoors
    @KandCoutdoors Год назад +5

    Good on you for showing this. Terra nova offer free tents to some utuber while I am sure they are honest in the reviews it is great to get a balance view from someone who purchased the tent, tbh the damage is a sign of shoddy workmanship on that area of ur tent and should be a replacement never mind repair. They may not be Megga expensive but they cost a good wedge for most working people, thanks for the video 👍

    • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
      @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад +2

      Yes no one goes out to make poor quality camping kit and as most of this stuff is made overseas there inevitably will be quality control issues.
      Hey it happens with everything in life surely?
      So you need to do your research, understand where you stand legally with the 2015 UK Consumers Rights Act and take your issue up with the retailer not the manufacturer. Your contract in law is between the buyer and seller not the manufacturer. Of course in many cases they will be one and the same .

  • @AlbertOutdoorsUK
    @AlbertOutdoorsUK Год назад +1

    Another great video Ben.
    I thought that I was the only person who was unimpressed with Terra nova’s customer service and hit and miss quality control.
    I really like my Helm 1 but earlier problems puts me off using them again and makes me look elsewhere.
    I’ve seen some bad press lately about a southern cross too so they are obviously having quality issues.
    For me, there’s no way you should have to pay to have a brand new (used once) tent repaired.
    I’ll be giving this company a wide berth from now on too, there seems to be too much inconsistency at that company these days.

  • @mikelovesbacon
    @mikelovesbacon Год назад +9

    The reason you got good service with the poles was because they specifically offer a 2 year replacement guarantee on them for any reason, even accidental damage. You shouldn't have got worse treatment with the flysheet as it's essentially a new tent. The manufacturer should accept that as their failure so early in its life.

    • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
      @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад +1

      Please note that a retailer’s or manufacturer’s warranty is only an extra . The 2015 Consumers Rights Act is the only legal protection you need if you have found goods to be of poor quality, not up to job expectations and based on how much the item cost .This ruling only applies to the UK of course so buying a dud Chinese tent is ultimately your bad luck

  • @AndrewParkOutdoors
    @AndrewParkOutdoors Год назад +2

    Unpick that trim and have a look to see how much fly fabric is in there. Im inclined to think that the grade of polyester has a poor tear strength and its just a continuous tear once the main point let go. Im still smarting from a Terra Nova pole that fractured first time i pitched it in the garden and thry charged me to replace the whole pole set, but ill set that aside for now. A

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      I think I’ll do a quick follow on video. “Love seam unpick” 👍

  • @pauld9294
    @pauld9294 Год назад +1

    Thanks for sharing. I have been doing a ton of research on one-man tents and had settled on a Helm 1 for 2024, although haven't yet bought. I know you've had no problems with your Helm 1 and 2 tents, but I am now having pre-purchase anxiety about Terra Nova quality. Possibly back to the drawing board!

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      My Helm 1 is going up for sale purely out of principle now 😆

  • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
    @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад +1

    Have to say my Wild Country Trisar tent is now 35 years old and performs very well , in fact just like a tent .
    I did have to replace one fly sheet as it had deteriorated due to sunlight etc .
    I paid circa £300 in 1990

  • @JackalOutdoors
    @JackalOutdoors Год назад +5

    You were definitely miss-treated buddy. The seams should be covered in warranty no matter what the conditions were. I was looking at buying this tent but will look for something else now!!

  • @simonweeks9063
    @simonweeks9063 Год назад +2

    I’m with you on this.
    I’ve had 2 Zephyros 2’s and I still have a Zephyros 3 tent.
    My opinion on them is the stitching is very poor.
    I’ve had the bungee/pegging points and one of the dwarf pole locations break on all the tents in various places (my wife’s re-stitches them by hand better than from the factory)
    I’ve also heard of lots of push back from the company on pole damage.
    But as I say. I’d never buy a wild country tent now and I’d even be dubious about a premium terrra nova.
    They used to have a really good name. Not so much now.
    Money better spent elsewhere I feel.
    Good luck.

  • @jamesburns7604
    @jamesburns7604 Год назад +2

    I had a similar issue with my helm 1. The stitching came undone and when I emailed them they asked me to send it to them to be assessed. The fact the stitching has come undone indicates its manufacturing issue. In the end I’ve just stitched it myself. Disappointing!

  • @SpruceOnTheLoose
    @SpruceOnTheLoose Год назад

    Good honest review there Ben, not owned or used a terra nova tent myself yet but I think I may stay clear of the panacea 2 😂 if you were to ask Gaz anyway.. he would say that I like to stay in "coffin" tents! So a two man is two big usually

  • @TechNomadUK
    @TechNomadUK Год назад +3

    It looks to me that it was sewn right to the edge of the green material giving little to no strength. Where the other sides green material looks to be sandwiched the whole width of the grey hem, giving lots of strength as it is holding onto a good cm of green material and two rows of stitching.

  • @ChicaLocaGB
    @ChicaLocaGB Год назад

    Like other commenters have mentioned, I was going to suggest feeling the seam on both tent ends to see if you can feel the edge of the green material inside and gauge how much was actually sewn into the seam. You could unpick apart the seam that has come away amyway, seeing as that would need to be opened anyway or replaced to re-sew.

  • @benjaminchadwick3749
    @benjaminchadwick3749 Год назад +3

    My Wild Country Helm 2 zip bust on its 2nd outing, no wind, normal use, just split. Very disappointing..The shop i bought it from have been great ( The Climbers Shop). They sorted it all out for repair. But this has taken 8 weeks for Terra Nova to do this..Lost confidence in it already especially with winter camping looming, gutted!!!

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      Not good!

    • @benjaminchadwick3749
      @benjaminchadwick3749 Год назад +1

      @DaleyOutdoors The quick replacement of poles on yours was very Good, but that stitching is just shoddy..Our tents aren't exactly budget as you pointed out in your video..The price of camping gear and clothing is just a piss take mate..Hope you get it sorted soon..

  • @marksadventures3889
    @marksadventures3889 Год назад +5

    I think this covers the whole reason I don't splash the cash for tents, if mine fail I'll have lost £60 maximum. I don't trust most companies for after sales service anyway and I have had to take action in the past where my consumer rights were pissed all over by grubby little servants dressed as management

  • @Bam123412
    @Bam123412 Год назад +1

    love my Helm 1 and my Zephros but both have had to be returned for a fault, which in itself is not good. The Zephros they repaired for free as they should have but the Helm 1 had a tear on the top pole tube. It had only been used about 10 times and never in high winds, yet they charged me about 40 notes to repair it which has really put me off the brand. I was also without the tent for a Mountain camp while it was repaired which annoyed me. If it had been used lots and in adverse conditions lots, then fair enough on needing a paid repair, but it hadnt been and had been pitched properly and packed away and stored inside a dry environment. I love the Terra Nova tents but I am really wondering if I will buy from them again.

  • @benhikescamps
    @benhikescamps Год назад +3

    Yes, I think they’re trying to stitch you up here. As others have said, much easier long term if they just repair it for free and return. Be very surprised if no fallout for them from this.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      I see what you did there. “Stitch me up” 🤣

  • @1951woodygeo
    @1951woodygeo Год назад

    I have a Tamar 2 and never had a problem with it in the wind, couple of extra guy lines on and it performs well in the wind and that was up in windy old Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

  • @chrisw1090
    @chrisw1090 Год назад

    When you were showing the grey binding it looked to me as if at best the tent material had only been caught at the top, so what was the point of the second line of stitches at the bottom end of the binding?

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      No idea 🤷‍♂️

    • @drsquirrel00
      @drsquirrel00 Год назад +1

      Second row would keep the hem from bulging.
      There is actually 5 layers at that point as the hem is folded inwards twice.

  • @Northumbriman123
    @Northumbriman123 Год назад

    Hi Ben, it's bad service from a manufacturer. I had a vango tent and the inner was very tight. On the third time out one of the connectors tore away from the inner. It's even possible I has over tightened the guy lines making it to tight between the inner and outer. On contacting vango they asked met take the full tent minus poles to my nearest dealer, not even the one I bought it from, they paid for the collection,repaired the tent and returned it without cost to me. No question, no photos, no quibble. It came back perfect and lasted years after.

  • @kddevitt
    @kddevitt Год назад +1

    First I agree with your deduction. Second I have the same tent. First outing, holding the tent, one hand had hold of the strap, other hand had the tent, tent slipped out of hand from about 1 or 1.5 foot off the ground, the bag ripped, the bag that is made out of rip-stop nylon or whatever. Emailed Terra Nova direct and never got a response. Emailed the retailer and they contacted TN, emailed again about 2 weeks later, so retailer nudged TN, they then sent out a replacement bag. Quality item? Doubt it, buy again, nope, never!

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      Wow. That’s shoddy. Sounds like they’ve had a batch of rippable rip stop material!

  • @garymitchell5899
    @garymitchell5899 Год назад

    Would agree the flysheet doesn't look to have been caught by the stitching, but at 4:48 there's a definite step on the edge, which does suggest there's a piece in the seam even if you can't see it. But either way something has failed on a new tent and I'd expect Terra Nova to fix for free, fot goodwill if nothing else.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      I need to unpick the seam and see what’s inside it really. Good excuse for a follow on video!

    • @stevec-b6214
      @stevec-b6214 Год назад

      seams like a plan@@DaleyOutdoors

  • @TheWalkingKev
    @TheWalkingKev Год назад +7

    Hands up who has tripped over guylines / pegs loads of times and never ripped an entire seam or damaged a tent at all...
    I've done this countless times, especially with cheap tents whilst at a campsite and never damaged one. You'd have to be achieving something pretty special to rip that seam off if it was properly attached.

  • @SussexOutdoors
    @SussexOutdoors Год назад +1

    Hey Ben, în my personal opinion, I think you're right, that seam was not stitched properly from the factory... It would have lost more thread on the seam or you would have seen more of the flysheet material in the stitch line there... if you'd like me to do the repair, I'm happy to oblige?
    All the best, James

  • @Sgaphotographic
    @Sgaphotographic Год назад

    You have a valid point so i would email them again with a link to your video and give them a chance to rectify the manufacturing fault

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +2

      Nah. They had a chance, I made the video so others know what to expect from them 👍

  • @Northeast-SouthwestOutdoors
    @Northeast-SouthwestOutdoors Год назад

    Think the green ripped clean as opposed to bad stitching, still think they shouldn't charge to repair tho that's crazy!

  • @rialobran
    @rialobran Год назад +4

    This is a factory fault, no doubt about it. As my missus just said, print out the comments to this video and send them to Terra Nova. If we the customer can see it, they can too.

  • @teddyb4957
    @teddyb4957 Год назад +1

    I think the issue here is that the selvedge edge [edge of the material wasn't doubled over BEFORE being placed in the edging [probably done properly the other, stronger side]. As a result it has no strength and just rips like a perforation on a letter. The good news is that its an easy fix, you simply unpick the stitching on the edging, double over the tent fabric, place edging back, and then run two lines of stitching [this is how it should have been done the first time]; the whole thing would probably take me about 30-60 minutes on my sewing machine.
    As for TN, the issue is not if a companies product fail/never fail; there are always 'gremlins' that get through the QC system, but the way they treat their customers when such things happen. Years ago TN had a fantastic reputation for keeping their customers happy, in recent years they have 'had' to highlight guarantees on their poles, ever wondered why this is when other brands do need to make such an issue of it?
    If you want good, old fashioned customer service Lightwave/Crux [and Carol the MD] are excellent, I had one of their 1 man tents [until some bugger pinched it!], and it was bomb-proof.
    As for being a 'Drama Llama' [:-)))], no not at all, its a BRAND NEW tent [and they could tell by looking at the fabric/model number as this is a new model], they know that, they know that the pole failed [and so likely to have caused other issues], yet are treating it as if the tent was outside its guarantee...tells you all you need to know ;-)

  • @richardwright9563
    @richardwright9563 Год назад

    I would use a blade and cut in the silver strip thru the stiching and open it up to confirm there is no green fly sheet in the strip and film it too,

  • @mikelovesbacon
    @mikelovesbacon Год назад +1

    So a few months ago I bought a Terra Nova Pioneer 2. It was advertised on their website with a 5000mm hydrostatic head rating on the flysheet. This morning I learned that Terra Nova missold me the tent, as the hydrostatic head rating is actually 4000mm. They've recently updated their website with the correct specification.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      Have you contacted them about it?

    • @mikelovesbacon
      @mikelovesbacon Год назад +1

      @@DaleyOutdoors Yeah I noticed last night their website now said 4000mm, and they emailed me this morning confirming that's correct and that the previous claims of 5000mm were a mistake.

  • @jonnied1ng
    @jonnied1ng 5 месяцев назад

    I've just bought one after watching Paul Messners review. I won't be doing extreme camping as I'm just beginning my wild camp journey. Picked it up for £204 on sport pursuits

  • @Tanko3691
    @Tanko3691 Год назад +2

    Firstly, I cant afford a tent for treking with but have been looking at the Panacea, it felt like the right tent as I really like the idea of using my trek poles to support it, but still out of my reach for now. If you intend to gift it PLEASE add me into the hat, I would repair it and be proud and very thankful of it. As for Terra Nova, I am a bit confused as I thought they had a "Life time warranty" persuant to the original owner. To fully diagnose this incident the grey seam tape needs to be opened up fully to ensure its not torn off along the perforation (stitch hole) as it looks like only the very edge was sewn in but its hard to say.
    Its sad a British company whom we all respect isnt falling over itself to resolve this for you, clearly, the people in the complaints department are not too arsed.

  • @davidf4897
    @davidf4897 Год назад

    The difference between a company that cares about their reputation and not, is to start arguing about damage.
    Its about saying, sorry and fixing immediately and fixing it.
    That should have been the story.
    Thanks for this.
    I wonder how your Naturehike Cloud Peak 2 would have fared? Ive had mine in pretty extreme winds and it came through, but not quite as bad as that.

  • @markalanshaw4950
    @markalanshaw4950 7 месяцев назад

    Hi Ben, You did pull it very hard and it didn't malfunction, I believe it was probably already damaged and some how got through the quality control system, those 12 year olds stitching the tent maybe need retrained or maybe hold back the £3.48 days wages! They need to concentrate more instead of swatting bugs! I hope Terra Nova takes note we want well stitched up tents! Cheers Mark!😅😅😅😅😅.

  • @shabingly
    @shabingly Год назад +1

    Either way, if theyre going to charge you 50 quid to stitch half a metre of fabric twice: its somewhere that doesn't need taping. If you can be bothered, do it yersen. If you cant, a local place will probs do it for less.
    Shame though, imo it is a combination of a manufacturing fault (only one length of the stitching was through both pieces of fabric) exacerbated by the conditions.

  • @kevinthackray1150
    @kevinthackray1150 Год назад

    Did you purchase the tent direct from Terra Nova or through a retailer? How long after purchase did it fail? Your legal rights are with the retailer not the manufacturer unless they are the same.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      I bought it from a retailer but have been. Dealing directly with Terra Nova on the issues.

    • @kevinthackray1150
      @kevinthackray1150 Год назад

      How long ago?@@DaleyOutdoors

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      @@kevinthackray1150 September I think. About a month before the camp.

    • @kevinthackray1150
      @kevinthackray1150 Год назад

      You should take the issue up with the retailer, as it is a manufacturing fault you are entitled to a repair or replacement free of charge. If you paid by credit card then your card provider is equally liable if the retailer does not resolve. @@DaleyOutdoors

  • @gregoryoutdoors
    @gregoryoutdoors Год назад +1

    Im glad I sold my Terra Nova tents, my X-Mid is way easier to pitch, way lighter and no poles or other stuff to break or snap like that and also for about £300.

  • @johnbyrne9019
    @johnbyrne9019 Год назад

    Thanks Ben for this video, I was going to order this tent today for trips out with my dog, but saw this just in time thankfully!
    I will wait now to see how you get on, please post updates.
    It certainly looks like the seam hasn't been married up to the fly anywhere near enough, as where it has been sewn correctly it is bombproof.
    I still think it is an amazing tent and maybe you have been unlucky with one side of yours, unless comments here say differently.
    Hope you get it sorted I watch all of your videos, do you think the powder from your noodles disintegrated it whilst in your bag? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      Maybe 🤣 update video coming soon 👍

  • @breakingbaggy446
    @breakingbaggy446 Год назад

    I think you're absolutely right mate, I've got a heavy duty sewing machine that I use to make my own gear so I could fix it for you no problem, I'm in Chesterfield if you're interested. Shame because it's a nice tent.

  • @markalanshaw4950
    @markalanshaw4950 7 месяцев назад

    After a most annoying camping trip with the wife I accidentally drove home and left her tied to the tree however someone found her and untied her, she said some rude words on her return and refused to ever go camping again, it is always good when a plan works no more annoying camps!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Mark!

  • @JJJj-nc9vq
    @JJJj-nc9vq Год назад +1

    The failure of the - guaranteed - Tera Nova poles appears to have lead directly to the failure of the fly sheet tape. Whist the fly sheet is not directly covered under the pole guarantee, it would not be unreasonable to expect Tera Nova to repair or replace the fly sheet FOC under these circumstances.
    As for the conditions under which the tent failed, the Tera Nova website states that the tent is “Supplied with Wild Country Aluminium Alloy V-Angle pegs”. Under the description for those, the website states that they are “designed as a rough weather alternative . . ”. It would be reasonable expect that a tent supplied with these pegs would be equally able to withstand “rough weather”.
    I am not sure the circumstances in which Tera Nova believe you could have tripped over the peg loop. In order to do so you would have first to negotiate your way around one or other pole, and the yellow guy rope, and even then, the loop lies flat to the ground and does not appear to be an obvious trip hazard.

  • @paulwhitaker2816
    @paulwhitaker2816 Год назад

    Ive got a vango torridon 300 and never had a problem with it, although you cant buy it now , but I was looking at the wild country helm compact 2 , for a treat for myself for christmas but now im not sure .....

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      The Helm 1 and 2 are great tents tbh. Just pray you get a good one 😆

  • @mhpupacios
    @mhpupacios Год назад

    Defective manufacturing in my opinion - should be full replacement by vendor or manufacturer or at a minimum a full guaranteed repair .

  • @drsquirrel00
    @drsquirrel00 Год назад

    This is such an easy stitch for them, the sewing foot basically does the work for them, which can make people complacent. An hours work probably even including some picking out of the old stitching.
    I wouldn't even bother going around the full lower edge to fix that.

    • @etztz123
      @etztz123 Год назад

      It would take 10mins to fix that with correct equipment and skill.

    • @drsquirrel00
      @drsquirrel00 Год назад

      @@etztz123 Whilst I think its easy I doubt its 10 minutes. There is time to prep the area (unstitch the old parts), deal with the tie out points, the corners where they overlap etc. Not only that but the handling time in just reading in the job order for it.
      I would suggest that a job like this (even on the original product) is handled by one of the less experienced machinists though, could have been an apprentice job (granted Ive no idea if these are farmed out abroad).

    • @etztz123
      @etztz123 Год назад

      @@drsquirrel00 it's terranova they don't deal with any of that. They just sew it up and leave you to sort the rest out when you get the repair back home. I should know they repaired my southern cross 1.

    • @drsquirrel00
      @drsquirrel00 Год назад +1

      @@etztz123 Ooof, probably a good time to keep local repairers on call. The edge needs no special treatment so no sealing issues which might trip up some local shops.

  • @NathanAtton
    @NathanAtton Год назад +1

    The tent i had my target set on was a terra nova and after hearing this its put me off slightly.

  • @RS899847
    @RS899847 Год назад +7

    100% SHODDY WORK. I WOULD EXPECT AN APOLOGY AND A REPLACEMENT FROM TERRA NOVA AND NOT REPAIR.

    • @mutley748916
      @mutley748916 Год назад

      That's what they've done. But it makes RUclips content.

  • @stevensymington9330
    @stevensymington9330 Год назад

    Got 2 of Terra Nova tents and had no issues. Not the 1st time I've heard of bad customer service from Terra Nova puts me off buying another.

  • @BoredManOutdoors
    @BoredManOutdoors Год назад

    You be the judge. If you consider it poor service, as you state, vote with your feet (or cash). Personally it's not what I would expect and I would do exactly as you did. I once had a similar experience with a huge outdoor manufacturer and guess what... Exactly... Good video as well - objective. Be nice if they take this opportunity to do the right thing..

  • @chrish3305
    @chrish3305 Год назад

    How can they know whether it was a failure in manufacture or not, if not inspected? They may argue they have good quality control but everyone makes mistakes, including tent makers and the factory checker. Especially for a missed row of stitches, easy oversight.
    I’d like them to organise return pickup at no cost to you as the minimum but actually expect a full refund or offer of new replacement. Good, balanced overview video to be fair - not a shouty complaint but well reasoned discussion. Cheers

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      They did inspect it before they sent me the quote for repair (apparently lol)

    • @chrish3305
      @chrish3305 Год назад

      @@DaleyOutdoors gotcha, my apologies for assuming. Still, I’d be fuming at the cheek of quoting for repair, after replacing the poles foc and spend more time than is healthy digging in to consumer law for a strongly worded letter!

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +2

      @@chrish3305 exactly. It’s even worse that they’ve had it and inspected it I think 😆

  • @Olan...
    @Olan... Год назад +1

    Personally i have only owned the Helm 2 and the Voyager and although they both performed well the times i used them i dont feel like the price they charge for the standard of the quality the produce is worth it. Seems on the Helm never filled me with confidence even though i have seen it perform in some videos so after a few camps i sold that on eBay and the bathtub side walls on the voyager were tiny so thats no good for moorland camping in the snow yet they class it as a 4 season tent so i sold that too. IMO they simply do not look like quality tents but they charge quality tent money .

  • @doolie04lfc
    @doolie04lfc Год назад +1

    This is becoming a trend with a lot of brands unfortunately, I now stick with my older oex tents as they are bomb proof and I've never had or seen a issue other than the odd one off manufacturing issue which they will instantly exchange in store

  • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
    @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад

    You don’t mention when you originally bought the tent , where from (as this affects the UK 2015 Consumer Rights Act ) and how long had you had the tent before it failed .
    These are important details as depending on those will determine your course of action.
    So it may just be a case of returning the tent for repairs or replacement. Or if you decide to persue the company to put them on say 10 day notice of you taking them to the small claims court .

  • @JeremyWharton
    @JeremyWharton Год назад

    Shame, I've got a Blizzard 3 and had zero problems, been out in some questionable weather with it, I've tripped over many a guyline and not ripped anything, questionable statement from the manufacturer, looking forward to your next video👍

  • @TheMadmacs
    @TheMadmacs Год назад

    its important to put yourself in terra nova seat, as you say its odd looking. it doesnt look like wind failure, its very clean like a sudden jolt, ie somebody tripping over it, and as you said terra nova dont make shoddy tents. the one thing i would do is open up the threads on the grey bit to see how much materail is inside, i'm assuming its supposed to go all the way down so its double stitched, if it was only single stitched, that sounds more like a manufacturing mistake, i'd open it up and if it isnt double stitched i'd appeal agin to terra nova, but if it is..... (incidentally i dont think they can if material is absent?) pps. shouldnt there be some seam sealer or tape on there?

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      I’ll take a look inside the seam. I don’t think they tape the lower bottom seams.

  • @tomwheeler7816
    @tomwheeler7816 Год назад

    a good honist report , and i would want a replacement at least , name and shame is the best and only way to get better gear so well don you

  • @johnpapadopoulos516
    @johnpapadopoulos516 Год назад

    They do have a bit of a reputation for poor customer service. Hope you get this sorted

  • @Life-Outdoors-UK
    @Life-Outdoors-UK Год назад

    As @GrizzlyGaz said, unpick the stitching on the bias tape (on camera would be better). The flysheet should go to the end of the bias tape, if it doesn't, it's not been stitched correctly. I'd been looking at the Southern Cross, if their first response is that you tripped over it, I'll look for something else. That's poor. Good luck.

  • @etztz123
    @etztz123 Год назад +1

    Doesn't surprise me, It looks defective. I've got a SC1 only used it a handful of times and all the pull outs have fell apart. Had to have two replaced so far and the other two needs doing. Not what you would expect from a £500 tent. Repair came back from terranova very untidy too, needed to sew the hem around the replaced pull outs as they hadn't done it properly and tidy loads of loose threads left behind. Didn't think much of their after sales to be honest and certainly put me off from buying any morebgear off them in the future. Shame really as I'm all for supporting local businesses.

  • @karlbratby4349
    @karlbratby4349 Год назад

    I’m still waiting for guy lines that were missing on the voyager 2 that arrived, they sent me two out but they were NOT for the voyager, thick as rope LOL so still waiting. I was on the fence to Terra Nova customer service and do put me off for while after hearing bad reports but a few dealers told me they had Improved massively these past few years but your story is not good to hear if it was me I would keep pushing them for a free repair under its guarantee as not fit for purpose

  • @mikeday8295
    @mikeday8295 Год назад

    Good detective work on the seam. I think it's a no-brainer. They should just refund, replace whatever, they are such a big company but 58 quid, seems alot to me. My opinion. No Drama llama.

  • @UseUsernameNotInUse
    @UseUsernameNotInUse Год назад

    Snap! Ditto! I bought a Terra Nova Compact 1 recently and sent it straight back. The stitching around the central hoop wandered about all over the place, creating points of increased tension. Shoddy work! The argument that manufacturers, distributors, retailers, and even some customers use that, ooh, most of the tents produced are fine is entirely irrelevant. Manufacturers might use multiple factories of varying experience. Individual factories will undoubtedly employ many machinists of varying experience. And if course there's always the Friday afternoon / Monday morning phenomenon. I complained, they argued, and I argued harder. Get your money back!

  • @MrWrob32
    @MrWrob32 Год назад

    I agree that it looks like defective workmanship with the stitching, as you pointed out there's no material in the seam that pulled off, while there would be if the tent fabric ripped. You're not being a drama llama, I'd be pissed too

  • @harryallen00
    @harryallen00 8 месяцев назад

    Sorry for the double reply to your posts but:
    I lost my faith in Terra nova after a 3 month bicyle tour outside the UK with a Pioneer Compact 2 about 2 years ago, note this is not the cheaper version they do called Wild Country but an actual 3/4 season Terra Nova brand tent. Also beware that this tent is always on sale now at almost 50% off for some reason and has been for at least a year since I purchased it, I paid the full price when I purchased it though.
    I'm not going to disrespect the tent design because it's really damn good but the actual build quality of the inner has so many fail points on the bathtub I can only assume it was never actually tested for more than a week in a warehouse at room temperature if it was even actually tested?
    The tent had so many taped seals on the bathtub/inner it's a a joke and thats exactly where it failed after 1 month of use, cleaning the inside of the floor with a damp cloth the seal seam tape literally split in a surgical cut type line at the joins like you had used a stanley knife on both sides of the tent for about a 1m length whilst i wasnt even inside it trying to get some sand out of it with a damp cloth. Why do they tape the bottom edges of a bathtub floor? Surely this should be a full curve of the actual material and not joined to the bottom (probably why it's always 50% off now)?
    Obviously I took some seal seam with me to fix any potential issues on my trip and I was about to head into an area where the weather was predicted to be heavy rain for the following weeks to come. I contacted them via email about the issue and my reply was that if I had tried to repair the tent it could affect my warranty even though I had explained the rain issue above and still had 2 months to go on my trip!
    So I sealed it anyway as I had no choice and then sent it back for repair when i got back after my trip, more seals had split by then btw. Granted they did literally send me a totally new inner tent but it was exactly the same build again with far too many taped seams again.
    I sold it on it's warranty return (sadly) even though I think the layout/design is amazing but I no longer trust or would even think of buying one of their tents without being able to fully inspect it beforehand. After trying out and inspecting many tents afterwards I'm still surprised they are using this taped design on all the major stress points of a bathtub floor. Granted this is very specific to this tent model/year and lets ignore that this model is always 50% off now probably due to the fact the inner build is a guaranteed fail (on a 3/4 seasong tent!) but I was not impressed with the customer feedback when literally my life was in the hands of the tent and they were warning me to not do anything or I might not be able to make a warranty claim...
    Not to be another Hilliberg fanboy but I did upgrade from the Terra Nova to one of the Hilliberg tents and I did actually have an issue with the new tent I had purchased whilst out of the country. I was shipped something to fix the issue and it arrived in 2 days. I guess you get what you pay for etc. Also the bathtub on the new tent is pretty much 1 solid piece of material with very minimal taping.

  • @robwithdogoutdoors1438
    @robwithdogoutdoors1438 Год назад

    Had a terra nova laser comp 2 years ago used one night and sold on utter shite..mild night the worst condensation I've ever experienced the vent arrangement was crap

  • @p.i.e5297
    @p.i.e5297 Год назад

    I brought the helm 1 and brought the footprint a week or so after, 7-10 days went by and no email to it had been dispatched, I contacted Terra nova and got a reply days later saying it had been dispatched, I then asked when and could I have the tracking information, no reply, a week or so went by then I got dispatched email with the tracking information, they gave me false information
    …….by the time the footprint finally arrived it was too late for my trip, I went with a different tent and footprint, I took my taga 1, which I find is the same design but a little bigger, I won’t be buying from Terra nova again.

  • @andrease2320
    @andrease2320 5 месяцев назад

    SO TERNO ONLY REPLACE POLES ON TENT I LIVE IN SHEFFIELD SO I DROP IN LAST WEEK I HAD HIT THE M 1 BEFORE THEY E MAIL TO SAY THEY REPLACE ! BUT DAYS LATTER I FOND THE BAG HAD GONE TO PUT BACK IN SO EMAIL THEM TO GET COST IT BE OK THE ISSUE HERE IS THE OUTER SHEETS OR INNER ARE NOT COVER ON THE DEAL FOR REPAIRE IF YOU ASK THEM TO DO IT THEY CHARGE YOU BECAUSE THE POLES ARE ONLY THING COVER WHEN YOU BUY THERE TENT

  • @arcticradio
    @arcticradio Год назад

    I remember years ago Vango customer service was amazing. They sent me out a whole new inner tent on one occasion.
    These days there is no customer care……times have changed.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      Sure have!

    • @arcticradio
      @arcticradio Год назад

      @@DaleyOutdoors I know tunnel tents are not everyone’s cup of tea BUT people are missing out on a trick here. Because the poles do not cross your sleeping area you can use a trekking pole to exert an upwards force on the pole thus giving the tent more stability. I’ve used this hack along with the TBS to survive intense winds.

  • @giftedandbroke
    @giftedandbroke Год назад

    Agree with you, no way has that been stitched properly, far too clean a rip. As they sold you a product not fit for purpose they are obligated to replace it for you imho.

  • @mountainidiot
    @mountainidiot Год назад

    As soon as I saw this range of tents incorporating trekking poles released, it struck me as a cost cutting exercise (removing section of factory supplied pole and placing the burden/cost on the consumer to provide trekking poles) - unfortunately it seems to be the case that further corners have been cut judging from your experience! I have two wild country tents and really like them, but I would not be buying anything from this range/design

  • @robhabgood3088
    @robhabgood3088 Год назад

    I think it’s hard to deal with these things at a distance. The seams were defo suspect and if they had been identified same time as the poles I’m sure the whole thing would have been sorted together. TN do repair so they are not shying away but probably a handling complaints staff training thing.

  • @colinremmer2417
    @colinremmer2417 Год назад +17

    Whenever you buy anything in the UK, there will always be a standard manufacturers 1-year guarantee. They are trying it on with you. I'd go over the person's head who emailed you back and go higher up the chain of command

    • @tonydarby9096
      @tonydarby9096 Год назад +3

      I would start by emailing them quoting the consumer rights act 2015. Its probably not fit for purpose or of merchantable quality.

    • @drsquirrel00
      @drsquirrel00 Год назад +1

      The 1 year thing is a misnomer. SoGA will put the onus on the buyer after 6 months to prove an inherent fault.
      If its under 6 months then Daley needs to definitely talk to the retailer, heck do it for the year.
      If the warranty is extended then what is covered is down to what the manufacturer says so... Often extended warranties only count on the original product not the replacement.

    • @colinremmer2417
      @colinremmer2417 Год назад

      It just goes to show that some companies are more interested in taking your money rather than taking an opportunity to show everyone that they provide an exceptional customer service@@drsquirrel00

    • @umaiar
      @umaiar Год назад +1

      I'd bet you're probably right, escalating issues frequently gets stuff done. The problem is that escalation shouldn't be necessary, at least not in something where customer service is expected to be high.
      Admittedly I'm not one to push for service like that. If I ask for service and get a run-around, I'm subbing dinner with that business. They're supposed to compete for my business, not the other way around.

    • @etztz123
      @etztz123 Год назад +1

      They will just say its user error. Even though it's not.

  • @TacBlades
    @TacBlades Год назад +1

    I have worked a lot with fabric and construction, and that is definitly a manufactuing fault. Imagine a factory making 1000s of these, its sewn at very high speed using a binding foot, its very easy to not align correctly.
    But this should have been quality checked every seam on every tent.
    To be honest i would have said the product is not of merchantable quality and therefore you could get a full refund or new tent your choice.
    It would also put me off too but i know a lot are happy with theirs.

  • @DaveSnoddy73
    @DaveSnoddy73 Год назад

    personally i think TN / WC should have replaced the tent under sales of goods act, not fit for purpose. thanks I was thinking of buying one, I'll look elsewhere. If a company pushes back on a clear failure its a sign not to think twice

  • @crazyhorsejohnny1974
    @crazyhorsejohnny1974 Год назад +1

    Saw the videos of that camp. I’d blame Mother Nature not the tent manufacturer. That wind was horrible. When camping in that kinda weather you risk that happening. You could take every tent you own out in those conditions and most would have issues. Whose fault would it be then ?

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      It’s specifically designed for strong wind though 🤷‍♂️ Gaz’s NatureHike tent was fine too.

    • @crazyhorsejohnny1974
      @crazyhorsejohnny1974 Год назад +2

      @@DaleyOutdoors On their website it doesn’t say nothing about “designed for strong wind” when reading about that tent. It does say they replace the poles for any reason which they did. As for Gaz’s tent it faired well up to that point but had you and he stayed longer who knows if it would have had issues like yours. Again those were horrible weather conditions. I’m subscribed to many many RUclipsrs from all around the world who go wild camping and lately it seems the “thing” is to go in really bad conditions. That’s great for views but when equipment fails in those conditions it’s not always the manufacturer’s fault. It’s a risk you take. Anyways hopefully your future camps go better. Looking forward to your next camps.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +1

      @@crazyhorsejohnny1974 no but they designed it so you can add trekking poles for extra strength 🤷‍♂️ We did our best to avoid the wind on the camp but it changed direction after we’d pitched. You can see in the video it was calm when we set up. It would have been fair enough in my eyes but as I said in the video the seam doesn’t look like it was stitched correctly in the first place, I’ll take a closer look at it soon 👍

  • @LittleRhubarb
    @LittleRhubarb Год назад

    Looks like a manufacturing fault to me, it didn't get sewn on properly and it just torn right off in the wind hence the clean rip edge to the fabric.

  • @hangoutwithdeggers
    @hangoutwithdeggers 11 месяцев назад

    Thanks for the replies on the other videos , appreciated, I don’t think you’re being a drama lama , I just think that when u have a bad experience it has that effect of a lack of confidence, happens to us all at some point….. the review on this tent from Paul Messner and some others I’ve seen is the opposite to your experience, just think you’ve been unlucky ….. I totally get why u feel how u do
    …… based on my overall research and the price I can get this tent for tho I think I’m still gonna give it a go 😮, ….. I just can’t fault my helm , and I can get this Panacea for just over £200, I’ll let u know how I get on , ….. loving ya videos 👌🏼😁👍🏼

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  11 месяцев назад

      Worth a go at that price, just good you get a good one with no issues 🤞👍

    • @hangoutwithdeggers
      @hangoutwithdeggers 11 месяцев назад +1

      @@DaleyOutdoors 👍🏼 hopefully 🤞🏼 🤣

  • @craigy1872
    @craigy1872 Год назад

    That’s really disappointing to hear. I have an unused Helm 1 which has never seen the light of day. I think it’ll be going on eBay after watching this.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +1

      My Helm 1 has been fine tbf. Worth checking it over though in case you have a Friday tent too 👍

    • @craigy1872
      @craigy1872 Год назад +1

      @@DaleyOutdoors I’ll be checking it tomorrow for sure 👍

  • @Foxtrottangoabc
    @Foxtrottangoabc Год назад

    Considering youve had the tent for less than 12months which is a traditional warranty Im suprised the aggro , even though it does sound tent used in extreme conditions 😅. I would have expected TN to be keen to have the flysheet returned so they can check the quality control .
    They could send u a new a fly sheet and repair the old one for a sale .
    Or repair your tent free of charge .
    I like tn i have a laser comp which is great . I think in this case they are being grumpy moos !

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад +1

      They had the fly sheet back. That’s when they came back with their repair quote 😆

    • @Foxtrottangoabc
      @Foxtrottangoabc Год назад

      @@DaleyOutdoors definitely grumpy moos 🐮 😅

    • @garymitchell5899
      @garymitchell5899 Год назад +1

      To be fair, the warranty doesn't cover every potential failure if its not down to manufacturing, as they claim. No warranty does.

  • @davidhale1568
    @davidhale1568 Год назад +1

    That’s a real disappointment from a customer service point of view. It would have cost them nothing to repair it and you would have been happy with the service tho disappointed with the tent.
    I’ve not had any problems with the two Novas I own apart from they wouldn’t let me buy a replacement tent bag for my Helm 1
    Reputations are hard won and easily lost.

  • @gazza1858
    @gazza1858 Год назад

    Shocking service by Terra Nova it’s definitely a flaw on the tent side . Iv got the snugpak bunker built like a tank and loads cheaper than the Southern cross 2 i was contemplating In getting.

  • @florinb4668
    @florinb4668 Год назад

    Cut that seems and you will see if is green material inside(do it on video as a proof).But seems like that material (green)and the side with problems is a bit old and dodge.

  • @Adventures_with_Sog
    @Adventures_with_Sog Год назад +7

    I've never liked this company's tents and always thought them overpriced. I've a £100 Quechua tent from Decathlon from years ago with build quality a hundred times better than Terra Nova's.

    • @andrewarthurmatthews6685
      @andrewarthurmatthews6685 7 месяцев назад

      I doubt that Quencher will still be useable after 35 years as my wild country Trisar tent

    • @Adventures_with_Sog
      @Adventures_with_Sog 7 месяцев назад


      What a pointless comment. 🤦🤷😂

  • @mutley748916
    @mutley748916 Год назад

    It would look far better on Terra Nova if they just replaced it and said sorry. To see businesses argue over a failure is pretty poor.
    Ive had my Quasar ETC since 1992 and it still functions perfectly.

  • @acelectricalsecurity
    @acelectricalsecurity Год назад

    This is a tricky one, I suspect had the peg not come out, the tent would have stayed intact. And if that's the case can you really blame the manufacturer.
    No amount of pulling will simulate the damage what prolonged windy conditions can do.

    • @garymitchell5899
      @garymitchell5899 Год назад

      If the peg came out there's no resistance to rip against, so not really.

    • @acelectricalsecurity
      @acelectricalsecurity Год назад

      @@garymitchell5899 if the wind is coming from that direction pushing the tent in on itself then it makes sense to me that it could fail as it did, if it was pegged that couldn't happen.

    • @garymitchell5899
      @garymitchell5899 Год назад

      @@acelectricalsecurity No. If the peg came out the flysheet would be loose. It still might fail but it definitely wouldn't rip the seam off because there's no resistance along that edge.

    • @acelectricalsecurity
      @acelectricalsecurity Год назад

      @@garymitchell5899 we can agree to disagree

  • @thegeordiewildcamper
    @thegeordiewildcamper Год назад

    cant say I've ever been impressed with the terra nova range other than the quasar and voyager. Ditch it and invest in something like fjallraven and Hilleberg. You know they are reliable and their customer service is unbelievable. Cheers for sharing mate hope you get sorted.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  Год назад

      Which Hilleberg though... that's a can of worms and an expensive one to get wrong 😬 Thanks for watching mate 👍

    • @etztz123
      @etztz123 Год назад +1

      I'd recommend the soulo Ben. Bombproof and the quality is light years ahead of terranova.

    • @garymitchell5899
      @garymitchell5899 Год назад

      His budget is £200-ish so that's not realistic. There's always a trade-off.

  • @GoingSoloOutdoors
    @GoingSoloOutdoors Год назад

    Shame about the tent. They should have either replaced the tent or fixed it at no cost. Accusing you of tripping over a guy line is unacceptable. Thanks for sharing your experience with customer service!

  • @chrissullivan3326
    @chrissullivan3326 2 месяца назад

    I'm having my own..very disappointing post-sale customer experience with TN right now. I have a Southern Cross 2, and 3 of the 4 attachment points for the inner to the outer have failed...or a 75% failure rate. The failure is IMO due to a design flaw, or poor material choice, or poor finishing, or poor QA...or all of the above (it's not a load bearing or high tension connection). TN however think it's...guess what...user error and are expecting me to pay for the repairs. I've been camping and wild camping for >40 years...and whilst you never stop learning, I do know how to pitch a tent. It's unfortunate TNs post-sale experience, doesn't match their pre-sale...but that can be said for a lot of manufacturers and re-sellers. I' ain't given up yet on this.

    • @DaleyOutdoors
      @DaleyOutdoors  2 месяца назад

      Keep pushing. Hopefully you get a good result in the end 🤞