I have a Tascam DA 3000 unit that I use to convert my vinyl directly to DSD128. When I'm recording, I use the included remote to separate each track. I used to convert my vinyl to 192K/24bit PCM. Paul has convinced me to try the DSD and I find that I like it better.
I remember doing cassette tape editing/splicing quite a bit in the 80’s. There was something wonderfully “therapeutic” about editing tape with your hands - a razor blade, some cellophane tape, making sure everything is aligned properly, etc. And sometimes, there was a lot of trial and error but you learned from it and got better over time.
@@geddylee501 Actually it would probably stand a better chance online than most modern computers because nobody writes viruses for 32-bit operating systems anymore. Additionally, virus protection is still available through third parties for the XP operating system. Just because Microsoft doesn't support it, doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now what do you use, as a home user, as opposed to a $$$ pyramix system. On the subject of splitting vinyl tracks, it never worked for me, there was always this background vinyl sound, and having the stop and start, or fade it out & in (I hadn't discovered gapless playback) to suit how CD usually were (yes there are options, I didn't know then) so I just got used to them being one big file, including needle drop/lift-off (and sometime lid down). I found this gave me the best 'vinyl experience' without wearing out my vinyl, including listening in 'impossible places', like whilst out walking, or driving.
So the multi-bit is that how I suggested it before, By taking the one bit and splitting it say 16 times segments and then feeding it back into one bit at its output?
No. In order to go multi-bit (PCM) the information provided by the "single bit" in PDM (DSD) must go through a conversion process and new multiple bits must be generated to represent the information. The "single bit" is not retained at all in the conversion.
@@JonAnderhub yeah but I'm talking about DSD not PCM, surely if the signal knows the timing what could be fooled then it shouldn't be no issue on the output mixing the individual bits together again, what are one bits multiplied 16. All the 16 segments are all taken from the one bit equally then on each individual bit can be manipulated as long as it's timing and length are the same when they rejoined to the one bit processor shouldn't have a problem.
@@hoobsgroove Let's be clear that the moment you are talking about multiple bits you are describing PCM. It is possible to convert the single bit of PDM (DSD) into multibit PCM but it can't occur the way you are thinking because the "bit" in PDM is a reference point on the analog signal in reference to the preceding bit, therefore the single bit itself has no useful information. Whereas a single 16-bit PCM sample contains all the information needed to reproduce the sample that was taken at a particular place in a signal.
Split and combine, but no processing such as equalization or compression is possible in DSD. For these things to happen the DSD (PDM) must be fully converted to PCM.
When you use DSD from the ADC output to capture an analog mastered recording you preserve it in the best way possible and the lack of ease in manipulating DSD sort of helps against vandals who would compress it or do other nasty things with the raw DSD original. So I could argue that for storing original tracks or analog masters, DSD being inflexible for manipulation is a sort of strength. PCM can surely sound as good as DSD but what your DAC is getting might be quite different than what is the master version. For example, you might listen to a digital track that has gone through multiple sample rate conversions.
Your conclusion doesn't take into account that there are flaws and degradation in the original master that require correction. Things like loss of high and low frequencies as analog tape ages, as well as loss of the particles of the physical tape. Print through from years of storage, Tape stretch, various forms of noise reductions including Dolby A, B, C, or S and DBX. You also don't take into account the source of the master. Many remasters come from sources other than the original masters because the originals have been lost or destroyed All of these issues and more require the ability for restoration and the need for processing. Even a pristine analog master requires processing for use on vinyl. This is why Sony dropped the format for master preservation over 20 years ago.
FiiO’s M15S portable digital audio player. This is a newer model out. Check out the features and specs. You can take your Octave recording’s with you on the go..😎👍
In 1968 the US S Army had an infinite number of brigadiers who were called upon to address each graduating class of the Us Army Intfantry OCS class and all of those speeches were recorded on 1/4' tape. As A result I spent every Friday afternoon I spent at the Ft Benning recording studio editing a generals speech to remove and unseemly sounds, God forbid a general be seen as anything but a paragon.
If you are good at searching the internet, there are programs that can split a long audio file into many small ones in an easy way. Know this existed for PCM. On pcm, it came with an extra file that said where the various songs started and ended
The best part about DSD is the sound quality... The worst part is everything else :-) it ignores speaker levels in your media player, it's subwoofer level especially is significantly lower than PCM so if you don't have an easy way to adjust that you have a problem as well. I like to think is DSD is " you get what we deliver* and you can't do much modification to it... but the sound quality is worth it. On the Oppo 205, you can easily switch between PCM & DSD output...and there's a noticeable difference between the two.
@Jon Anderhub Oh contrare. I'm not complaining about the sound quality... I'm just pointing out the hassle on my 100% analog system to get it that way :)
@@Scott-DJ Now you are getting even funnier talking about how digital components are working in your "all analog system". If you are playing back digital sources then your system isn't "all analog".
I counter again with saying unless you're playing back 8-track cassette tapes or turntables, you have *some* digital in your system. Last time I checked in order to play DSD files you need some kind of digital transpor...but all PROCESSING in my system is one-hundred-percent in analog dumaine.
Goodness me, editing out the "uhs" and "ahs" by cutting tape sounds like torture punishment. Really makes me reflect on digital music and photography versus film. Although I love analogue production of any sort, since it's that much more TANGIBLE, boy do I take the wonder of digital technology for granted. Paul, you've likely mentioned it before, but I have a question. "How come most recording studios and the development of tech favoured PCM versus DSD? Is PCM cheaper and less complicated to develop (further) and implement than DSD? Or was DSD so niche, since it was developed for Vinyl Transfer, that it was forgotten and left to the wayside due to PCM already being well established?" All the perks of DSD to me, outweighs PCM - IF it were more widely used... You literally need to be into this stuff just to know what DSD is, let alone be able to listen to and experience it. I have personally yet to experience it, and I already feel like I've hit the ceiling with my JBL 4311s and various A/D sources!
PDM is not digital. Is analog modulation on a binary format for easy of transportation. That's why it needs conversion before editing. You can not just edit the pulses.
No PDM is definitely digital and created by taking an analog signal and passing it through an Analog to Digital Converter. The Analog to Digital Converter creates the "bits" and the bits need to be converted back to an analog signal by a Digital to Analog converter. The bits created by the AD converter have absolutely no use unless they are passed through a converter to make them analog once again. Additionally in order to preserve the timing of the bits created, additional high-amplitude levels of noise must be added to the original analog signal.
@@joesshows6793 I agree. I didn't give up my XP easily but Windows 7 turned out to be solid enough that both my video and my audio editing computers are still running Windows 7. I don't run them on the interweb.
That's completely fine when you need to keep working with older (and expensive) software and audio ADC/DAC interfaces. It's a waste of money to replace it all every time when Microsoft decides that an OS is no longer supported. Switching to a newer Windows version is not always easy because of compatibility issues since this "things" are not just random picked PC's, but dedicated and offline systems for just one purpose.
The real answer is no! Paul tries to circumvent the fact that almost 98% of DSD recordings are just conversions from high-resolution PCM by trying to say that only little bits of the DSD file are converted to PCM and them converted back. This of course is not true because the whole DSD file must be converted to PCM for processing such as equalization, compression, and delay or reverb. These are not processes that are "tiny bits". So the real answer is no!
I have a Tascam DA 3000 unit that I use to convert my vinyl directly to DSD128. When I'm recording, I use the included remote to separate each track. I used to convert my vinyl to 192K/24bit PCM. Paul has convinced me to try the DSD and I find that I like it better.
Love those Sony SS-M9ES speakers in the back. I would love to hear Paul talk about them.
He has. They belong to Gus Skinas
I remember doing cassette tape editing/splicing quite a bit in the 80’s. There was something wonderfully “therapeutic” about editing tape with your hands - a razor blade, some cellophane tape, making sure everything is aligned properly, etc. And sometimes, there was a lot of trial and error but you learned from it and got better over time.
Hi,good video well explained 👍, I noticed the pink floyd Animals, in sacd next to your glasses, good choice, I have the same, 73 from Rotterdam 👍
Is PS audio still using Windows XP? Which is probably OK, as long as it's not online.
Lol half an hour online would kill it off for sure
He is standing by the old Sonoma system used by Sony to record DSD 64 (not 64-bit) files.
It is the system owned by Gus Skinas
@@geddylee501 Actually it would probably stand a better chance online than most modern computers because nobody writes viruses for 32-bit operating systems anymore.
Additionally, virus protection is still available through third parties for the XP operating system.
Just because Microsoft doesn't support it, doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Now what do you use, as a home user, as opposed to a $$$ pyramix system.
On the subject of splitting vinyl tracks, it never worked for me, there was always this background vinyl sound, and having the stop and start, or fade it out & in (I hadn't discovered gapless playback) to suit how CD usually were (yes there are options, I didn't know then) so I just got used to them being one big file, including needle drop/lift-off (and sometime lid down). I found this gave me the best 'vinyl experience' without wearing out my vinyl, including listening in 'impossible places', like whilst out walking, or driving.
So the multi-bit is that how I suggested it before, By taking the one bit and splitting it say 16 times segments and then feeding it back into one bit at its output?
No.
In order to go multi-bit (PCM) the information provided by the "single bit" in PDM (DSD) must go through a conversion process and new multiple bits must be generated to represent the information.
The "single bit" is not retained at all in the conversion.
@@JonAnderhub yeah but I'm talking about DSD not PCM, surely if the signal knows the timing what could be fooled then it shouldn't be no issue on the output mixing the individual bits together again, what are one bits multiplied 16. All the 16 segments are all taken from the one bit equally then on each individual bit can be manipulated as long as it's timing and length are the same when they rejoined to the one bit processor shouldn't have a problem.
@@hoobsgroove Let's be clear that the moment you are talking about multiple bits you are describing PCM.
It is possible to convert the single bit of PDM (DSD) into multibit PCM but it can't occur the way you are thinking because the "bit" in PDM is a reference point on the analog signal in reference to the preceding bit, therefore the single bit itself has no useful information.
Whereas a single 16-bit PCM sample contains all the information needed to reproduce the sample that was taken at a particular place in a signal.
Korg DSDAC10R is a good device for vinyl to DSD ripping.
Tascam Hi Res Editor is free and allows you to split and combine DSF files without conversion to PCM.
Split and combine, but no processing such as equalization or compression is possible in DSD.
For these things to happen the DSD (PDM) must be fully converted to PCM.
When you use DSD from the ADC output to capture an analog mastered recording you preserve it in the best way possible and the lack of ease in manipulating DSD sort of helps against vandals who would compress it or do other nasty things with the raw DSD original. So I could argue that for storing original tracks or analog masters, DSD being inflexible for manipulation is a sort of strength. PCM can surely sound as good as DSD but what your DAC is getting might be quite different than what is the master version. For example, you might listen to a digital track that has gone through multiple sample rate conversions.
Your conclusion doesn't take into account that there are flaws and degradation in the original master that require correction.
Things like loss of high and low frequencies as analog tape ages, as well as loss of the particles of the physical tape.
Print through from years of storage,
Tape stretch, various forms of noise reductions including Dolby A, B, C, or S and DBX.
You also don't take into account the source of the master.
Many remasters come from sources other than the original masters because the originals have been lost or destroyed
All of these issues and more require the ability for restoration and the need for processing.
Even a pristine analog master requires processing for use on vinyl.
This is why Sony dropped the format for master preservation over 20 years ago.
FiiO’s M15S portable digital audio player.
This is a newer model out.
Check out the features and specs.
You can take your Octave recording’s with you on the go..😎👍
What AUDACITY to ask such a question ??? 🤣🤣🤣
In 1968 the US S Army had an infinite number of brigadiers who were called upon to address each graduating class of the Us Army Intfantry OCS class and all of those speeches were recorded on 1/4' tape. As A result I spent every Friday afternoon I spent at the Ft Benning recording studio editing a generals speech to remove and unseemly sounds, God forbid a general be seen as anything but a paragon.
Can I edit out Axl Rose's voice from Guns N' Roses songs?
Lol I hope not🤘
BLASPHEMY
Yes, just not in DSD.
If you are good at searching the internet, there are programs that can split a long audio file into many small ones in an easy way. Know this existed for PCM. On pcm, it came with an extra file that said where the various songs started and ended
Yeah, sometimes there's a .CUE file that has info for start and end timings of song in a large PCM, as well as song names, etc.
i ask similar.... but my question didn't publish....
The best part about DSD is the sound quality... The worst part is everything else :-) it ignores speaker levels in your media player, it's subwoofer level especially is significantly lower than PCM so if you don't have an easy way to adjust that you have a problem as well. I like to think is DSD is " you get what we deliver* and you can't do much modification to it... but the sound quality is worth it.
On the Oppo 205, you can easily switch between PCM & DSD output...and there's a noticeable difference between the two.
When using the REL way of connecting a subwoofer (speakon?) the sub level shouldn't be different, as long as the source level is the same.
You are so funny.
You say the best part about DSD is the sound quality and then you go on to complain about the sound quality of DSD.😆
@Jon Anderhub Oh contrare. I'm not complaining about the sound quality... I'm just pointing out the hassle on my 100% analog system to get it that way :)
@@Scott-DJ Now you are getting even funnier talking about how digital components are working in your "all analog system".
If you are playing back digital sources then your system isn't "all analog".
I counter again with saying unless you're playing back 8-track cassette tapes or turntables, you have *some* digital in your system. Last time I checked in order to play DSD files you need some kind of digital transpor...but all PROCESSING in my system is one-hundred-percent in analog dumaine.
Goodness me, editing out the "uhs" and "ahs" by cutting tape sounds like torture punishment.
Really makes me reflect on digital music and photography versus film. Although I love analogue production of any sort, since it's that much more TANGIBLE, boy do I take the wonder of digital technology for granted.
Paul, you've likely mentioned it before, but I have a question.
"How come most recording studios and the development of tech favoured PCM versus DSD? Is PCM cheaper and less complicated to develop (further) and implement than DSD? Or was DSD so niche, since it was developed for Vinyl Transfer, that it was forgotten and left to the wayside due to PCM already being well established?"
All the perks of DSD to me, outweighs PCM - IF it were more widely used... You literally need to be into this stuff just to know what DSD is, let alone be able to listen to and experience it.
I have personally yet to experience it, and I already feel like I've hit the ceiling with my JBL 4311s and various A/D sources!
PDM is not digital. Is analog modulation on a binary format for easy of transportation. That's why it needs conversion before editing. You can not just edit the pulses.
No PDM is definitely digital and created by taking an analog signal and passing it through an Analog to Digital Converter.
The Analog to Digital Converter creates the "bits" and the bits need to be converted back to an analog signal by a Digital to Analog converter.
The bits created by the AD converter have absolutely no use unless they are passed through a converter to make them analog once again.
Additionally in order to preserve the timing of the bits created, additional high-amplitude levels of noise must be added to the original analog signal.
I love windows 7 too
Then you would probably get a bang out of Windows XP, which is what the Sonoma system that Paul is standing by, runs on
@@JonAnderhub they are crazy solid OSs
@@joesshows6793 I agree.
I didn't give up my XP easily but Windows 7 turned out to be solid enough that both my video and my audio editing computers are still running Windows 7.
I don't run them on the interweb.
I see Windows XP installed on that system
😂😂 ...or is it just the wallpaper ...
@@dannybourne_ The start bar was blue in colour.
I believe the Sonoma DSD system only runs on Windows XP.
That's completely fine when you need to keep working with older (and expensive) software and audio ADC/DAC interfaces. It's a waste of money to replace it all every time when Microsoft decides that an OS is no longer supported. Switching to a newer Windows version is not always easy because of compatibility issues since this "things" are not just random picked PC's, but dedicated and offline systems for just one purpose.
The Sonoma system was designed to run on a custom version of XP I believe.
I hope that Windows XP machine isn't network connected!
The real answer is no!
Paul tries to circumvent the fact that almost 98% of DSD recordings are just conversions from high-resolution PCM by trying to say that only little bits of the DSD file are converted to PCM and them converted back.
This of course is not true because the whole DSD file must be converted to PCM for processing such as equalization, compression, and delay or reverb.
These are not processes that are "tiny bits".
So the real answer is no!