No need to limit these to 20 minutes. The non-informercial(most modern car reviews) format is such a breath of fresh air that I could listen for hours. I had essentially disengaged from car media content until this channel launched.
Jason has the gift of gab. He can explain shit for an hour or two at a time, and he will still have my attention afterwards. PS: Don't tell him, his head will grow even bigger.
Albert Biermann summed up what happened to BMW best... “One common phrase when criticizing BMW’s M Division is “M used to stand for motorsport but now it stands for marketing”. Biermann seems to feel similarly. During the launch of the new Genesis G70 in Korea, Biermann spoke with Australia’s Drive about the state of German automakers, such as BMW M and Mercedes-AMG. Mainly, he criticizes both brands for adding too much tech and nonsense. “It’s all marketing, first of all,” Biermann said. “How many people really buy it later on? Much of this exists for media, to give a hype, to show the technology level. But how many people really buy it later on?” Biermann feels as if the brands are focused too much on technology and not enough on the actual product. One specific area where Biermann feels the Germans are slacking is in quality testing. He claims the amount of testing was going down while he was at BMW M but now it’s going down even further. He also claims that the sort of quality testing he and his team at Genesis are doing is much better. “Our testing is much more intense,” he said. “We have 30,000 km test driving in [Hyundai’s research and development headquarters] Namyang, with all the bad cobblestones and potholes you cannot imagine. We run our cars there for 30,000 km, and then on top of that we do 10,000 km at the Nurburgring.” said Biermann. “I don’t think anyone else is doing that anymore - maybe Porsche or Ferrari, but all the other guys they’ve stepped down from 10,000km to 8000km or 5000km. And some, they do nothing anymore.”
Jason sounds like he has a masters in car history he knows so much would love to hear him just regurgitate car info and see how much I could understand
Love the show, I could listen to you talk about cars ALL day, I would also consider a extended version of certain topics that would consider "worthy" (an extended, special episode, after the regular ended) Keep up the great work, love the channel, love the content.
I'm a nerd who tends to go all alphanumeric with my buddies when talking cars, and I knew exactly what was meant by the BMW and Porsche chassis codes, but I had to pause and Google the Merc chassis codes because I have no idea which is what 😅. I can see your point.
@@JasonCammisa yeah i was google imaging as I was listening because I have no idea about the alphanumerics. If it wouldn't be too much trouble to edit in a picture of the cars you talk about it'd be awesome.
Love Ur show, keep going ! Since 15 years car enthusiasts from Europe lost their balls because of the expansion of turbo diesel and speed cameras. I’m a VW/Audi fan, so I don’t know to much about modern BMW, I just know that my neighbour drive an E46 320d and the gearbox is the most reliable part on his car, it’s a GM 5 speed automatic gearbox. Here in Europe, outside Germany, BMWs weren’t considered “ bimmers” until the Eightys and the introduction of the E30. For example, In our olds Europeans movies (60’s 70’s) the villains characters used to drive Lancia, Alfa, Jaguar, Mercedes or even fiat... bmw became badass thanks to the M division. The E36 M3 was the pinnacle. In the early 90’s, a lot of tuner company’s started to bore out 3,0 litres from the 2,5. Then, in 1992, BMW introduced the M3 e36 as an answer to this little world :”hey little fellows, THIS, is a 3 litter engine, 286 horses !” Ok you had the detuned 240 ponies, but, hey ! they built you the X5
Agree 100%....worked for BMW from 1984 through 2001, and that's the period of BMW cars I still am buying to this day. I have ZERO interest in any BMW manufactured after. I also drive Mercedes from the 1987 to 1993 period - The 190e w201 ( ended '93), the 300e w124 (ended '93) and the iconic w126 S Class ( ended '91). At least with Mercedes, by 2014 they realized the error they made and quality has greatly improved especially in the interiors....Currently own a 1998 318ti M Sport 5 speed, a 1994 840ci, 1990 MBZ 420SEL and 1993 MBZ 300E.
About Mercedes interiour quality: To me it feels a bit different. I had one from 1984 (W123), 1994 (W202), 2002 (W211), 2009 (W212). No i have one from 2010 (W212) and one from 2012 (X204) while my father has one from 2015 (W205). To me the quality of the interiour from the 1994 to the 2002 seemed an improvement apart from the seats. From the 2002 to the 2009 the newer felt more flimsy to me. (sun wisers made from thinner material, door closing sound less "good"...) And the 2015 C Class doesn't seem that much of an improvement to me either. It may look more stylish to some, but if you press buttons, close the door ect. it does not feel like higher quality to me. Also for quality/reliability build: my 2002 W211 had a second battery that made it possible to start the engine even if the main battery was at it's end. The car switched off all "unimportant" electrical devices so it could still start. (the display said so). So with a dead battery i was still able to drive to get a new one. The 2009 one and the 2010 both W212: dead battery: no start. Happend to both when the battery got 5 years old. Until now the only time the cars fault prevented me from getting from A-B. What somehow keeps me from wanting a newer Mercedes is that they fit smaller fuel tanks, there is no chance for a spare tire and they stopped inlcuding the toolset. (Even my 2012 car has none) And they changed ergonomics: first they switched the position of the blinker and cruise control lever: so that whenever i drive my fathers car i have to concentrate extremely not to send turning signals when i want to use cruise control, and not to turn on cruise control when i change lanes ect. Newer models don't even have the lever anymore, they now set it onto buttons on he steering wheel. The Mercedes (like the BMW, Audi, nowadays Mazda too) Version of iDrive was usable without looking as you get haptic and acustic feedback while all the touch-pad things in newer cars are just distracting to use.
Jeppe Werring MBUX is literally as good as IDrive or Audi’s system. All three of these cars have creaking, but I can agree Mercedes a little more although they have the best looking interiors.
Yep. My last new BMW was an F10. It wasn't much better than a 90s Lexus GS. Then I picked up a 6 speed Cooper S to support the production of manual cars. It was a rattly piece of crap and the suspension was all worn out after 20k miles but when the dealer said I couldn't order another manual I said fuck it and picked up an E34 and E36. I've never been happier with my garage. These cars are almost as old as I am but they're still incredibly tight and feel great. Plus, no payments and full coverage insurance is CHEAP.
@@pascutia They're holding up great. I'm having no major issues and aside from a few deferred maintenance items (suspension parts in both cases) they've been a pleasure. Plus, they keep me on my toes. No blind spot detection or automated nonsense, proper 5 speed manual transmissions, wonderful 90s feedback. I'm glad I got in while they're still cheap because one day people will realize how great they are to own. This is the automotive equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.
I would've liked to hear you guys talk about the M2/M2C, which have been raved about since its inception. Is it anomaly or does it also belong in the modern BMW trash pile? The G20 3 series is also well received as a big step back in the right direction vs the F30 in terms of quality and driving performance. Maybe they are turning a corner? I really hope the new M3 is good.
Interesting question re: the M2/M2C. I wish I could point you to my Motor Trend review back in the day, but those guys have pulled all the videos from RUclips. M2 is possibly the only car in the BMW lineup that represents what a BMW M-Car should be. It's fast, fun, involving, a little unhinged. Its tech mostly doesn't overwhelm the experience, and it's not overly numb and isolated. Is it perfect? Of course not. The driving position is crooked, you can't turn off dumbass auto-blipping without disabling ESC, the steering isn't amazing, the interior is a little bland... and it's got a little too much power for its own good. But overall it's the only BMW I'd actually buy.
@@JasonCammisa when I scrolled down to the comments, this was also the first thing I had in mind to seek your opinion. I only drove it for a couple days (rental car in Spain) but I felt that the M2 (pre-Comp) seemed to be the only modern BMW that actually has an appeal to me anymore. I say this as someone who owns a Euro-spec E36 M3 that I regularly take to the track, and I've driven Z3 M's and E46s as well. The E46 M3 and Z4 M Coupe are the last BMWs and M cars that really seemed to have the company "essence", if you will, and they not coincidentally also hold the most appeal to me. I haven't driven an E90 or E60 but I've ridden in a few (including heavily modified variants on track), but to me they are the tipping point, and the cars that came after them were the start of the slide into mass-market blandness and loss of identity (not to mention the reliability issues with the S85/65 engine family, sadly).
@@matthewjudge3763 I've owned one for 3 years, and done 36000km in it. It's had no real issues and its held up fine in -30 celcius conditions. Long story short it is good but not great. There has been a few times driving it on the street that have left me beaming, but I'm not sure if that was mostly just appreciating the engineering. The steering, sound, interior are all just okay. It handles very well and is incredibly easy to drive. Every time I fire up my E46 M3 however, I'm smiling within seconds. It's a car that when I look out my front window, I think about taking for a joyride. The M2 is just there. If you want someone more recent I would suggest the E92 M3 (my previous car), as that is more fun, comfortable, and special, with only having worse tech.
completely Derek. I too had an e90 330i for years and years, and loved that thing as much as the e46... and when i'd get a loaner f30 I would feel like I just left the enterprise rental counter... things just didn't fit as nice, materials weren't as good, steering was terrible, the whole thing screamed of cutting corners while the e90 still had a very premium feel in a car that was pretty much the lowest model in their lineup at their time (of course by the time I finish writing this there will be 4 models below the 3 series: 2, 1, 1/2, and the venerable 1/4 series)
Hard to comment on these videos because they're so rich with content, I want to write too much! Overall really agreeing with Jason and finding lots of insight into what going on with German market attitudes...I see it at BMW, but really see it at Porsche, which has been my love since the late 90s, where I've been left a lot colder by them in the last 10 years. I think automakers have mistakenly over-emphasized the smartphone manufacturers as role models; autos exist on a longer time span than smartphones, and it's alienating for car makers to try and lease us $50k+ luxury cars every couple years. People who are smart with their money know you buy something to last and keep it, and fewer and fewer of those cars are getting made.
Yes, Audi multilink suspension is a pain and is really expensive to maintain. However with good bushings / arms it's a joy to drive ( on the highway, not that fun for b roads.) Regarding BMW, they will be just fine as cars are just a fashion accessory or an Extension of the mobile phone for most of the buyers. The end user doesn't want to know about handling, smooth deliver of power or driving position. The brands know this and for the past 2 years most of the adds on TV focused on opening the rear door/trunk with your foot, and this year every add that I see focus on opening the doors with an app.
Kristis Balčiūnas Good or bad is matter of taste but he had guts - the cars had a really confident bold design inside out. Car designers like me see almost all of them as masterpieces (if you know anything on what it takes to design a car) and I also think the e87, e90, e60 and especially e86 all look amazing still. Especially in M-trim. (Even tho Bangle did not design a single BMW himself, he was the head of design) No models today have that boldness or simplicity.
There aren't enough people who care about driving to support a brand of BMW's size. BMW has always led market trends so their shift away from driving was prescient.
I've never heard the DaimlerChrysler affair discussed from the Mercedes perspective. From the Chrysler perspective, when the Germans came in they threw away a really slick system for developing low-cost cars, and replaced it with "the Mercedes way, minus quality". That would up being more expensive development than the old Chrysler system, and even lower quality. They had no idea how to produce low-cost cars, but were convinced that they were smart and Chrysler were stupid. So to hear that they were bleeding to death as a result makes me happy, since they deserved it. So long and thanks for the LX car suspension.
I drive a '79 E30(M50 converted) and is busy making it go faster and better. I'm 60. I love this car, it makes me smile to own it. All modern BMWs are unaffordable, heavy, and filled with crap nobody needs. If I want my seat warm, I'll fart. I could not care less about any new BMW even though it might be extremely fast, powerful, clever and comfortable. In fact, I get to leave quite a few modern BMWs in my dust, and the best part is the surprise on the other driver's face. I smile. The other driver grimaces because of hunger pains. That shit sure isn't cheap!
Late to the party on this one, but thought id share my thought. Best conversations and breath of fresh air from all the mainstream out there.. Thank you Jason. Your content never gets old! I look forward to all the hagerty films youll be releasing. Hoping you have much more content like this in the future.
You guys are finally saying what enthusiasts have been feeling these past 5 to 7 years - the F-series signalled the ruin of all that made BMW the ultimate driving machine. I bought an e90 335i Sport [RWD] - preowned - in 2013, AFTER having test driven the then brand new F80 335i. It was a no brainer- the e90 was in a different league. 4 years later it was time to change cars, so i went to the BMW dealership again, drove the 2018 340i again, and was again not only underwhelmed, but was really amazed as i drove out the BMW dealership in my old car, by how much better my 2009 e90 335i STILL felt & drove with 100K miles on it - validating my decision 4 years earlier about passing on the F80. Even test driving [pedal to the metal] the 2016 M4 was a disappointment. These newer cars are missing a soul. There is no joy in driving down the street anymore. I ended up in a new Mk7 GTI Autobahn DSG for my crosstown DD,, and for what these VWs are, they are just simply amazing machines, the GTI is such a fantastic package, the smiles per miles are so much better than anything BMW has done in past 7 years in the DD/weekend-track-car segment. I harrass M3's on the DDT next to Mosport on track day in a car half the cost. Even maintenance on VWs is like 1/5 of what repairs/parts on a BMW cost. Lately, KIA, HYUNDAI, hell even Mercedes [think 2017 c43 exhaust noises] and Ford [2015/2018 Mustangs&Focus ST/RS etc], are all making more driver/enthusiast focused cars than BMW nowadays and you know what - good for them! and good for us! BMW have simply lost their way and seem hellbent on morphing into a Toyota-wannabe overpriced commuter car. maker. Sad state in BMW history.
As W202 owner I can confirm what you guys said, I own a 1994 W202 C200D that has 1400000km on the clock, and the car did that many Kms because it has the same engine that the 190d has. I consider it one of the last cars if not the last car that Mercedes built with same quality as previous models
BMW: Ultimate Leasing Machine (tm) I rather want that 2 decades old Lancia Delta HF Integrale EVO II or VW Scirocco in and out of the background than any new BMW leasing machine like that fulgy 2 Series Gran Coupe which NOT GRAND and NOT A COUPE!!
I actually look forward to these every week now. Love this banter. Also as a former 128i manual owner, I fully agree BMW lost there way. I mean what in the actual fuck is the i8 for? The Germans are now about gesture controls and fwd grand coupes..
I’m a car enthusiast in Germany and have to say that I completely lost the will to enjoy my car around these roads. You can’t sneeze without getting caught by a camera, and that’s how a lot of petrolheads feel around here that I have spoken to. The people making BMWs just don’t care anymore, sadly it became more important to have a good sat-nav and sound system while you sit in traffic.
That's really sad. At least you still have the autobahn and awesome racetracks like the Nürburgring. Surely you can still have fun on country side roads too? We have the same problem in the UK, but countryside roads remain a nice refuge for car enthusiasts who don't wish to drive on track.
@@DanielSadjadian They even started putting cameras on countryside roads! The worst thing is there are no towns around and the speed limit is 100km/h. Ofcourse there are some roads that you can tackle, it just has to be in the middle of the night to not get blocked by traffic.
Awesome video! It's like sitting at a coffee shop with your interesting car friends and learning a bunch of facts! Keep up the good work, because I don't have any interesting car friends, so I'm relying on you.
Audi 80-90, a3-a4 was great as 1.9tdi. Engine epic, transmission good, metal never rust, only problem is like you mentioned on those bushings that last short and are somewhat expensive
I traded my e92 for a Chevy SS because there was no logical reason to buy any new BMW over the chevy. I looked at M4s but it just wasnt worth the hell I know I'd go through.
+1. .. Good discussion. .. A personal experience was the Zuffenhaushen 964 production line; 1989 to 1993. .. Verses the late years time frame of the 993 production line; 1994 thru 1998. .. I'd order an MY98 993 C2S and continue to own. .. The Toyota production influence was somewhat scattered during the 993 productions and in full force with the 986/996 cars. .. Yeah, the interiors to mention but one area were/are junk. .. Cheers, Vail, Colorado P.S., Drove/owned an MY95.5 Audi UrS6 Avant for better than a decade, agreed the 5cyl turbo w/5sp was a hoot.
This shows amazing and I don’t know why but I love it and even sitting at a table unscripted Camisa works the slapstick in lol. Seriously great show been sick catching up on all the episodes now
11:14 I've found there's a general buyer's interia for brands like that. Basically people tend to buy cars based on the brand/model, they like getting a new version of what they already have. If it's different, even if it's not necessarily better, buyers will continue to choose that car for no other reason than they like what they have. Keep in mind for most people a car is one of the most significant purchases, that means lots of risk aversion. Which means it takes the time for the early adopters to cycle through their better option, before the main stream buyer starts to accept it. This is why brands can make one shit shit car and be fine so long as they course correct fast enough, and why it takes so long for manufacturers to react after they have genuinely screwed up a product. Because if you're just looking at short term sales and retention of a newly screwed up product, things look fine. sales numbers are adequate and the bottom line has increased (usually). So usually this is when manufactures dive deeper into what caused the problem in the first place because if it didn't affect sales, and it increases the bottom line, why not go crazy with it? Then 2 generations later sales just suddenly tank, and everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out what happened.
Have owned 2 E30 24V's, E36 M3, E46 M3, F80 M3, Z3M Coupe, 135i, 2 318ti's, E36 325is, E46 325i, E46 330i ZHP, E46 325iT and 2 997's...and a Shelby GT350...and maybe some others I'm forgetting along with a M2C. The F30 is/was a joke, but somehow the M2C is amazing and I think it's one of the best M cars built to this day. Someone inside M cared about this one.
I can shed light on what the European perception of BMW is: it has a stereotype for being a beloved car brand of Kosovo Albanians to show off with, automechanically disinclined lawyers, doctors, and managers. Mr. Cammisa is spot on with the overcrowding on the German highways, cameras everywhere, and people being fed up with driving in general. It's rare in this day and age to see an automotive journalist with so much insight into cars and context around them these days.
Pretty accurate on BMW from a European perspective. I'll add that the EU is also protecting its market with very stringent regulations making it hard for othereise competitive (Hyundai, Mazda) or fun (Challenger, Mustang 350r) foreign manufacturers to get in. TBH I'd also add that Merc and even worse Porsche are in the same doll drum too big and heavy pointless cars. Reliability and customer service fot both these brands is dreadful too compared to BMW. But at least VAG cars have decent stylistic flair. BWW's are just either pig ugly or bland. Hell they even managed to ruin the Mini brand. Yes Mini sells more cars than ever, but the brand DNA is in tatters. IMHO last decent BMWs were E90 gen. They ought to make a series just for car enthusiasts, call it a "pure" range, get rid of all the useless shit, rwd, 6sp manual and a decent hifi. But that's wishful thinking. BMW made huge investments into building proper futur mobility cars such as the i3 and i8 got their fingers burned. Sadly the market prefers blinged up shit boxes... roll Audi and Mercedes....
The G20 3 series is an excellent car and the interior does not feel cheap to me. Until I sit in an Audi.. in any case, the new G20 is on the right track back to what BMW used to do well. I had a f36 430 Gran coupe and despite its good looks, it was a shot box that I do not miss. Oh, the current m2 competition drives like a dream and I like the m5 too, though every time you drive it, there is a good chance that you'll be arrested.
So true, I used to own a E82 128i manual sport pack and every time I dropped it for service and got a F30 335i or X3 35i as a loaner, although grateful to have a good loaner vs Enterprise, I could not wait to get my 128i back and just decided I would not replace it with a new BMW, just went with a new Genesis G70 instead, which feels like what a proper BMW used to feel like
The disintegrating wire-harness stuff was from a soy-based insulation to please the Green Party. It probably cost them more to manufacture - and certainly cost them more in the long run. A bonehead move to be sure.
As somewhat of a BMW fan boy, this is very eye opening and I can agree with it (excluding the M2). PS, LHS was my first car and I freakin loved it. Still miss it today.
Honestly I get what you are saying about BMW. I think that certain cars still from them are still good. M2 is great. Even my f30 335i xdrive 6-speed manual is really good. Would be better with hydraulic steering, but still a good car. Drove it on the snow and at track days. Has enough space for a full set of wheels and tires with the seats down. My specific spec is extremely rare but still an exception to what is said in this video. The 328 loaner car is definitely a piece of shit compared to mine.
I really liked the conclusion stating that car brands have really long-lasting image... BMW like Mercedes in the past is lucky to keep selling their cars even if they're producing FWD pieces of garbage whereas Alfa Romeo which developped really good new cars struggles to sell anything... Audi is also reaching the cool status since 10 years basing everything on their image even though they never were able to produce one good handling car (maybe except the R8 but it's mainly a Lambo)
You are kinda wrong, sorry. F30 is waaayyy above E90 regarding interior quality. I do not like it (I prefer my old E89 interior to the newer M3 CS one), but it is above it in quality. Also, a 335d is not quite a drivers car...it is heavy and sluggish, more like an Autobahnstormer. Also, what's happening in Europe/Germany? Diesel shame, car prices gone through the roof so everyone buys used cars only, more stringent regulations, etc. But mostly, due to the higher cars prices, newer cars are bought usually by fleets, thus the development direction is dictated by what currently they prefer in a car: comfort and gadgets.
OMFreakingG....... just discovered this YT channel. l adore it ! I am a (Italian) car tragic and watch a fair bit of car related YT stuff but honestly find 99% is just absolute crap. FINALLY some people who speaks my mind.....there are times l just want to jump right into the conversation. l am virtually screaming PREACH IT BROTHERS !! On the subject ....l also find vast majority of modern BMWs woefully underwhelming. They have never really done it for me (ok, l did look at a Z4 once, but nah, and there are some tempting oddballs, M140i). But, you could never say such things in public as you would be ridiculed and derided. As a former boss of mine (and Series 5 owner) used to say...."why do people buy Beemers ? ... because it's a total wank"
You mention lag, Audi has suffered a MASSIVE negative lag in the USA because some idiots left their hand brake off and cried ‘run-a-way’ which all the press jumped on, totally unfair and unfounded but mud sticks and in this case for 30 yrs! Since the late 80’s they have made some awesome cars.
I have leased or owned eight BMWs in a row my last car was a 440 with a manual transmission and an M package I love the car Fire price was ridiculous and the attitude I got from the BMW salesman was indescribable I drove one of the newer cars I hated the way it looked I said if I’m gonna hate the car and I can’t buy a manual anyway I might as well get something I can rely on, drive to Lexis got an is 350 every day I get into the car I drive it to work I drive it home I have absolutely no feelings about the car it is no different than a toaster but at least I won’t be spending $1000 a month repairing it Bmw has just stopped building the car that I want to drive, and the dealers are repulsive.
Bought my first car in the spring. I chose a e46 320i Touring. 170Hp inline 6 and i paid 3000€ for mine with at the time 124k km. This sounds a lot like i bought the right car :D
As I'm binjing this serious, you guys are killing it. I honestly love the frankness and the IDGAF attitude towards it. I will agree with maybe throw up a quick pic of the cars you name/list for people that aren't quite as knowledgeable on model numbers.
I had a 1990 Audi 90 (sadly not a quattro; couldn't find any quattros in the southeast) as my first car as well. Parents bought it for me quite inexpensively as it had a lot of miles on it. That engine had a lot of character, the interior was very nice compared to other contemporary cars, and certain systems were built like a tank. Certain other subsystems, though... let's just say those earned their reputation 🤣.
@@jsquared1013 I almost ended up with a 90 Quattro but the owner kept flaking and I settled for the 10v 80. Was probably for the best as the 80 was less heavily optioned so there were fewer things to go wrong and bleed high school me dry haha. They're rare as shit in general now. I haven't seen a clean one for sale in California for years.
Episode idea: cars great on the road. Forget about the track. Much of the US does not have easy access to the track. Break episode down to great on the road for you, for you and family, you and significant other. Cars with the most sense of occasion. Thank u keep up good work
Wow, can't say I agree. In the last 12 years, between my wife and I we've had 5 BMWs and I've been happy with all. I will agree the gap of them being the "ultimate driving machine" compared with other cars has greatly narrowed. But with every BMW I've owned I've been happy with driving dynamics, reliability, looks & build quality. I know some models have had issues, but you could say that about every car maker. I haven't hung on to one longterm and know this can be one of the complaints of over-engineered cars. Just saying my experiences and enjoyment has been very good, and don't feel BMW's are on a downward trajectory. There will always be the purists though that will favor the "good old days."
Carpe Diem I agree. I came to BMW after a long line of Honda’s, Acura’s and a Lexus GS350 F Sport. The F30 340i was my first foray into BMW. It was much more engaging than anything else I had owned in the past. The exception being my E30 which I bought a month before the F30. Just leased a M340i this weekend and it’s such a step up from the F30. My only complaint is that it feels bigger than my F30.
I generally agree with your sentiments regarding where BMW is going. One current exception is the 2 series. For the most part they got that right, could it be lighter, yes, could the steering be a little better, yes, but for the money, you are getting a very good, car with a great engine that IS fun to drive. Slap a few mods on and you have a serious road car. I also own a 718 Cayman S without the bullshit options and can say interiors are pretty close. Is the the driving experience better in the manual Porsche, yes, but you are talking a $30k difference in MSRP to the M240i. To me the 3 series (and the rest of their larger fleet) feels too big and for the other reasons you stated, is not for me. I haven’t driven the new Z4, but hope there is some light there as well. Thanks for the videos. I’m really enjoying them.
Thank you - and thanks for the comments! I'd say you're definitely right about the M2. The last non-M 2-series I drove was worse than any Buick I've driven in decades, though.
I miss my e39 M5 like one might miss an amputated testicle. And I can't buy another one because a decent e39 with low mileage is now back up to its original MSRP from 20 years ago.
And just as they begin discussing the C4, SAVED BY THE BELL (err, 2 minute warning). As a former C4 S4 owner, yeah, lots of character and moments of brilliance, but I’d never own one today, mostly because scarcity of parts and the fact that I’m no longer interested in constantly wrenching to keep an almost-30-year-old platform on the road.
Knowing how much Derek loves old cars, it's no surprise at all that he dislikes new BMW's and prolly all other brands too. A great example would be the new Land Rover Defender. Traditionalists HATE the new one! It just lacks all the toughness of the old one. But car manufacturers are obviously going after a totally different crowd now - those who love creature comforts.
Apple takes a long time to approve new podcasts. We submitted the show a while ago; still waiting for approval. For now, it's available on Spotify, Google Podcast, and SoundCloud. Hopefully Apple approves it ASAP!
Jason! For the love of god you deserve your own car show on Netflix!!! I'm looking @ u Netflix. In the words of George Costanza's boss... HIRE THIS MAN 😁
Wow when did Jason get his own channel?! Subbed Also dig what you said about brands' reputation having a long life. I own three Alfa Romeos at the moment which I paid nothing for because they have a bad reputation in the UK for being rusty, unreliable and fragile. But they're none of those things. It's confirmation bias - people ignore facts contradicting the opinions they already have, and it takes a lot to change them.
I have to say, I don't have many issues with the current generation of BMW's, but the body lines do make the car look a little bit plasticky if you know what I mean, and also the tachometer going backwards is a no go for me.
I don't know. I drive a 2018 M2 and I don't notice any decrease in driving fun. In fact when I zoom around grandmas on the street, other younger drivers want to mix it up. So BMW still has some credibility on the street.
No need to limit these to 20 minutes. The non-informercial(most modern car reviews) format is such a breath of fresh air that I could listen for hours. I had essentially disengaged from car media content until this channel launched.
Thank you! We'll let the next ones run a little longer if we have something more to say!
100% agree
Jason has the gift of gab. He can explain shit for an hour or two at a time, and he will still have my attention afterwards. PS: Don't tell him, his head will grow even bigger.
Albert Biermann summed up what happened to BMW best...
“One common phrase when criticizing BMW’s M Division is “M used to stand for motorsport but now it stands for marketing”. Biermann seems to feel similarly. During the launch of the new Genesis G70 in Korea, Biermann spoke with Australia’s Drive about the state of German automakers, such as BMW M and Mercedes-AMG. Mainly, he criticizes both brands for adding too much tech and nonsense. “It’s all marketing, first of all,” Biermann said. “How many people really buy it later on? Much of this exists for media, to give a hype, to show the technology level. But how many people really buy it later on?”
Biermann feels as if the brands are focused too much on technology and not enough on the actual product. One specific area where Biermann feels the Germans are slacking is in quality testing. He claims the amount of testing was going down while he was at BMW M but now it’s going down even further. He also claims that the sort of quality testing he and his team at Genesis are doing is much better. “Our testing is much more intense,” he said. “We have 30,000 km test driving in [Hyundai’s research and development headquarters] Namyang, with all the bad cobblestones and potholes you cannot imagine. We run our cars there for 30,000 km, and then on top of that we do 10,000 km at the Nurburgring.” said Biermann. “I don’t think anyone else is doing that anymore - maybe Porsche or Ferrari, but all the other guys they’ve stepped down from 10,000km to 8000km or 5000km. And some, they do nothing anymore.”
Biermann says that....and yet Hyundai sells N-line cosmetic packages
rockn roll not from my experience. Not worth the risk anymore. Burned too often.
Jason sounds like he has a masters in car history he knows so much would love to hear him just regurgitate car info and see how much I could understand
Mike Arredondo it seems like he mostly knows euro cars
The Jordan Peterson of automotive psychology . Camissa
Haha. This is all very common trivia. You’d be amazed how many people have this kind of car trivial knowledge.
I come for cammisa. Literally and figurativley.
I'm simultaneously flattered, turned on, and a little grossed out.
@@JasonCammisa
Hey Man!
Issimi is the shit! Way better than motor trend. Best of luck and God Speed! ✌😁
@@JasonCammisa kinda ewwww and awww!
Love the show, I could listen to you talk about cars ALL day, I would also consider a extended version of certain topics that would consider "worthy" (an extended, special episode, after the regular ended)
Keep up the great work, love the channel, love the content.
Love the talk, but it would be nice to show pictures of some of the very rare cars that you're talking about
Thanks - we'll work on that.
All in All I agree. No everyone can picture all these different models of the past....not even me at 67 and a passioned car lover.
I'm a nerd who tends to go all alphanumeric with my buddies when talking cars, and I knew exactly what was meant by the BMW and Porsche chassis codes, but I had to pause and Google the Merc chassis codes because I have no idea which is what 😅. I can see your point.
@@JasonCammisa yeah i was google imaging as I was listening because I have no idea about the alphanumerics. If it wouldn't be too much trouble to edit in a picture of the cars you talk about it'd be awesome.
I don't know if you two are doing this on a trial basis or not, but I hope this becomes a permanent fixture of this channel. I'm hooked.
Once a week! :)
Love Ur show, keep going !
Since 15 years car enthusiasts from Europe lost their balls because of the expansion of turbo diesel and speed cameras. I’m a VW/Audi fan, so I don’t know to much about modern BMW, I just know that my neighbour drive an E46 320d and the gearbox is the most reliable part on his car, it’s a GM 5 speed automatic gearbox.
Here in Europe, outside Germany, BMWs weren’t considered “ bimmers” until the Eightys and the introduction of the E30. For example, In our olds Europeans movies (60’s 70’s) the villains characters used to drive Lancia, Alfa, Jaguar, Mercedes or even fiat... bmw became badass thanks to the M division. The E36 M3 was the pinnacle. In the early 90’s, a lot of tuner company’s started to bore out 3,0 litres from the 2,5. Then, in 1992, BMW introduced the M3 e36 as an answer to this little world :”hey little fellows, THIS, is a 3 litter engine, 286 horses !”
Ok you had the detuned 240 ponies, but, hey ! they built you the X5
And later on the E36 M3 even came with a 3.2l inline-6 with 316 hp 😊
@@HouseOfPetrol Yep, more power to compensate the weight of the 4 doors ... just kidding (taquin inside)
Agree 100%....worked for BMW from 1984 through 2001, and that's the period of BMW cars I still am buying to this day. I have ZERO interest in any BMW manufactured after. I also drive Mercedes from the 1987 to 1993 period - The 190e w201 ( ended '93), the 300e w124 (ended '93) and the iconic w126 S Class ( ended '91). At least with Mercedes, by 2014 they realized the error they made and quality has greatly improved especially in the interiors....Currently own a 1998 318ti M Sport 5 speed, a 1994 840ci, 1990 MBZ 420SEL and 1993 MBZ 300E.
About Mercedes interiour quality: To me it feels a bit different. I had one from 1984 (W123), 1994 (W202), 2002 (W211), 2009 (W212). No i have one from 2010 (W212) and one from 2012 (X204) while my father has one from 2015 (W205). To me the quality of the interiour from the 1994 to the 2002 seemed an improvement apart from the seats.
From the 2002 to the 2009 the newer felt more flimsy to me. (sun wisers made from thinner material, door closing sound less "good"...) And the 2015 C Class doesn't seem that much of an improvement to me either. It may look more stylish to some, but if you press buttons, close the door ect. it does not feel like higher quality to me. Also for quality/reliability build: my 2002 W211 had a second battery that made it possible to start the engine even if the main battery was at it's end. The car switched off all "unimportant" electrical devices so it could still start. (the display said so). So with a dead battery i was still able to drive to get a new one. The 2009 one and the 2010 both W212: dead battery: no start. Happend to both when the battery got 5 years old. Until now the only time the cars fault prevented me from getting from A-B. What somehow keeps me from wanting a newer Mercedes is that they fit smaller fuel tanks, there is no chance for a spare tire and they stopped inlcuding the toolset. (Even my 2012 car has none) And they changed ergonomics: first they switched the position of the blinker and cruise control lever: so that whenever i drive my fathers car i have to concentrate extremely not to send turning signals when i want to use cruise control, and not to turn on cruise control when i change lanes ect. Newer models don't even have the lever anymore, they now set it onto buttons on he steering wheel. The Mercedes (like the BMW, Audi, nowadays Mazda too) Version of iDrive was usable without looking as you get haptic and acustic feedback while all the touch-pad things in newer cars are just distracting to use.
Lol the newer Mercedes interiors are cheaper than both Audi and BMW, creaks everywhere lol, and the software is much worse.
Jeppe Werring MBUX is literally as good as IDrive or Audi’s system. All three of these cars have creaking, but I can agree Mercedes a little more although they have the best looking interiors.
Yep. My last new BMW was an F10. It wasn't much better than a 90s Lexus GS. Then I picked up a 6 speed Cooper S to support the production of manual cars. It was a rattly piece of crap and the suspension was all worn out after 20k miles but when the dealer said I couldn't order another manual I said fuck it and picked up an E34 and E36. I've never been happier with my garage. These cars are almost as old as I am but they're still incredibly tight and feel great. Plus, no payments and full coverage insurance is CHEAP.
That’s awesome. How are they holding up? Are they your daily drivers?
@@pascutia They're holding up great. I'm having no major issues and aside from a few deferred maintenance items (suspension parts in both cases) they've been a pleasure. Plus, they keep me on my toes. No blind spot detection or automated nonsense, proper 5 speed manual transmissions, wonderful 90s feedback. I'm glad I got in while they're still cheap because one day people will realize how great they are to own. This is the automotive equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.
I love seeing Camissa's Scirocco lurking in back of shot.
I would've liked to hear you guys talk about the M2/M2C, which have been raved about since its inception. Is it anomaly or does it also belong in the modern BMW trash pile? The G20 3 series is also well received as a big step back in the right direction vs the F30 in terms of quality and driving performance. Maybe they are turning a corner? I really hope the new M3 is good.
Yeah, that's what I was hoping for because I'm looking at buying a used non competition M2.
Interesting question re: the M2/M2C. I wish I could point you to my Motor Trend review back in the day, but those guys have pulled all the videos from RUclips. M2 is possibly the only car in the BMW lineup that represents what a BMW M-Car should be. It's fast, fun, involving, a little unhinged. Its tech mostly doesn't overwhelm the experience, and it's not overly numb and isolated. Is it perfect? Of course not. The driving position is crooked, you can't turn off dumbass auto-blipping without disabling ESC, the steering isn't amazing, the interior is a little bland... and it's got a little too much power for its own good. But overall it's the only BMW I'd actually buy.
JasonCammisa thank you for replying!
@@JasonCammisa when I scrolled down to the comments, this was also the first thing I had in mind to seek your opinion. I only drove it for a couple days (rental car in Spain) but I felt that the M2 (pre-Comp) seemed to be the only modern BMW that actually has an appeal to me anymore. I say this as someone who owns a Euro-spec E36 M3 that I regularly take to the track, and I've driven Z3 M's and E46s as well. The E46 M3 and Z4 M Coupe are the last BMWs and M cars that really seemed to have the company "essence", if you will, and they not coincidentally also hold the most appeal to me. I haven't driven an E90 or E60 but I've ridden in a few (including heavily modified variants on track), but to me they are the tipping point, and the cars that came after them were the start of the slide into mass-market blandness and loss of identity (not to mention the reliability issues with the S85/65 engine family, sadly).
@@matthewjudge3763 I've owned one for 3 years, and done 36000km in it. It's had no real issues and its held up fine in -30 celcius conditions. Long story short it is good but not great. There has been a few times driving it on the street that have left me beaming, but I'm not sure if that was mostly just appreciating the engineering. The steering, sound, interior are all just okay. It handles very well and is incredibly easy to drive. Every time I fire up my E46 M3 however, I'm smiling within seconds. It's a car that when I look out my front window, I think about taking for a joyride. The M2 is just there. If you want someone more recent I would suggest the E92 M3 (my previous car), as that is more fun, comfortable, and special, with only having worse tech.
completely Derek. I too had an e90 330i for years and years, and loved that thing as much as the e46... and when i'd get a loaner f30 I would feel like I just left the enterprise rental counter... things just didn't fit as nice, materials weren't as good, steering was terrible, the whole thing screamed of cutting corners while the e90 still had a very premium feel in a car that was pretty much the lowest model in their lineup at their time (of course by the time I finish writing this there will be 4 models below the 3 series: 2, 1, 1/2, and the venerable 1/4 series)
Still loving the show. You guys haven't disappointed me yet!!
Damn, we'll try harder!
Hard to comment on these videos because they're so rich with content, I want to write too much! Overall really agreeing with Jason and finding lots of insight into what going on with German market attitudes...I see it at BMW, but really see it at Porsche, which has been my love since the late 90s, where I've been left a lot colder by them in the last 10 years. I think automakers have mistakenly over-emphasized the smartphone manufacturers as role models; autos exist on a longer time span than smartphones, and it's alienating for car makers to try and lease us $50k+ luxury cars every couple years. People who are smart with their money know you buy something to last and keep it, and fewer and fewer of those cars are getting made.
Just started bingeing on these - great stuff. As to the Passat thing: it's 411>412>Dasher>Quantum (Synchro)>Passat.
Yes, Audi multilink suspension is a pain and is really expensive to maintain. However with good bushings / arms it's a joy to drive ( on the highway, not that fun for b roads.)
Regarding BMW, they will be just fine as cars are just a fashion accessory or an Extension of the mobile phone for most of the buyers. The end user doesn't want to know about handling, smooth deliver of power or driving position. The brands know this and for the past 2 years most of the adds on TV focused on opening the rear door/trunk with your foot, and this year every add that I see focus on opening the doors with an app.
Yeah, the suspension the B/3BG Passat is great IMO :P Just need to change it way too often.
You didn't even mention how bloody horrific the styling is now
That was a big omission! Whoops.
Yup after Bangle left nobody had any idea what to do. This is clear.
Like Bangle did anything good lol
It's like 50/50 now imo, the 3 (not M, those will be very ugly), 5 are gorgeous but then they have shit like the 4, 7
Kristis Balčiūnas Good or bad is matter of taste but he had guts - the cars had a really confident bold design inside out. Car designers like me see almost all of them as masterpieces (if you know anything on what it takes to design a car) and I also think the e87, e90, e60 and especially e86 all look amazing still. Especially in M-trim. (Even tho Bangle did not design a single BMW himself, he was the head of design)
No models today have that boldness or simplicity.
Jason is by far ( and I really mean BY FAAAAAR) the best automotive journalist today. Period.
This is 1 of 5 YT Channels that I have hit the bell icon, thank you guys.
Thank you!
There aren't enough people who care about driving to support a brand of BMW's size. BMW has always led market trends so their shift away from driving was prescient.
Bugatti Veyron Vitesse/SS casually chilling in the background. I bloody love it.
Love it! One of the best shows on RUclips. Please seriously consider lengthening the shows.
I still love driving... and I'm German. Luckily, as a student all I can afford right now is a BMW of that said era (E46, E38) anyway xP
Thanks so much for talking about this! Jason on BMWs is best Jason😂
Thank you! Or as the Bavarians would say, "Go fuck yourself, Cammisa." :)
I've never heard the DaimlerChrysler affair discussed from the Mercedes perspective. From the Chrysler perspective, when the Germans came in they threw away a really slick system for developing low-cost cars, and replaced it with "the Mercedes way, minus quality". That would up being more expensive development than the old Chrysler system, and even lower quality. They had no idea how to produce low-cost cars, but were convinced that they were smart and Chrysler were stupid. So to hear that they were bleeding to death as a result makes me happy, since they deserved it. So long and thanks for the LX car suspension.
This channel makes me so happy. Done by car guys for car guys and dropping tons of knowledge. Bravo 👏
Think about BMW early 2000s: E46 M3, Z3M, E39 M5, and R53 Mini Cooper S.
I think the whole technology over driveability thing is a problem for all manufacturers today, expect Mazda.
I drive a '79 E30(M50 converted) and is busy making it go faster and better. I'm 60. I love this car, it makes me smile to own it. All modern BMWs are unaffordable, heavy, and filled with crap nobody needs. If I want my seat warm, I'll fart. I could not care less about any new BMW even though it might be extremely fast, powerful, clever and comfortable. In fact, I get to leave quite a few modern BMWs in my dust, and the best part is the surprise on the other driver's face. I smile. The other driver grimaces because of hunger pains. That shit sure isn't cheap!
Late to the party on this one, but thought id share my thought. Best conversations and breath of fresh air from all the mainstream out there.. Thank you Jason. Your content never gets old! I look forward to all the hagerty films youll be releasing. Hoping you have much more content like this in the future.
You guys are finally saying what enthusiasts have been feeling these past 5 to 7 years - the F-series signalled the ruin of all that made BMW the ultimate driving machine. I bought an e90 335i Sport [RWD] - preowned - in 2013, AFTER having test driven the then brand new F80 335i. It was a no brainer- the e90 was in a different league. 4 years later it was time to change cars, so i went to the BMW dealership again, drove the 2018 340i again, and was again not only underwhelmed, but was really amazed as i drove out the BMW dealership in my old car, by how much better my 2009 e90 335i STILL felt & drove with 100K miles on it - validating my decision 4 years earlier about passing on the F80. Even test driving [pedal to the metal] the 2016 M4 was a disappointment. These newer cars are missing a soul. There is no joy in driving down the street anymore. I ended up in a new Mk7 GTI Autobahn DSG for my crosstown DD,, and for what these VWs are, they are just simply amazing machines, the GTI is such a fantastic package, the smiles per miles are so much better than anything BMW has done in past 7 years in the DD/weekend-track-car segment. I harrass M3's on the DDT next to Mosport on track day in a car half the cost. Even maintenance on VWs is like 1/5 of what repairs/parts on a BMW cost. Lately, KIA, HYUNDAI, hell even Mercedes [think 2017 c43 exhaust noises] and Ford [2015/2018 Mustangs&Focus ST/RS etc], are all making more driver/enthusiast focused cars than BMW nowadays and you know what - good for them! and good for us! BMW have simply lost their way and seem hellbent on morphing into a Toyota-wannabe overpriced commuter car. maker. Sad state in BMW history.
As W202 owner I can confirm what you guys said, I own a 1994 W202 C200D that has 1400000km on the clock, and the car did that many Kms because it has the same engine that the 190d has.
I consider it one of the last cars if not the last car that Mercedes built with same quality as previous models
Good to look at, good to own, great to drive. That is why I used to buy and used to want to own BMWs. Haven’t felt that way for a decade.
the curse of becoming a "VOLUME" manufacturer...
I dont know dude. Porsches has become a VOLUME manufacturer and allegedly there Panamera's and Macans still handle like a Porsche
BMW: Ultimate Leasing Machine (tm)
I rather want that 2 decades old Lancia Delta HF Integrale EVO II or VW Scirocco in and out of the background than any new BMW leasing machine like that fulgy 2 Series Gran Coupe which NOT GRAND and NOT A COUPE!!
Even though I hate your disdain for turbos I just love these damn things.
I actually look forward to these every week now. Love this banter. Also as a former 128i manual owner, I fully agree BMW lost there way. I mean what in the actual fuck is the i8 for? The Germans are now about gesture controls and fwd grand coupes..
The i8 is the future... hand gestures and 'hey ble is just marketing bullshit
It would be of great value and appreciation if you would show pictures of the cars that you're talking about.
I’m a car enthusiast in Germany and have to say that I completely lost the will to enjoy my car around these roads. You can’t sneeze without getting caught by a camera, and that’s how a lot of petrolheads feel around here that I have spoken to. The people making BMWs just don’t care anymore, sadly it became more important to have a good sat-nav and sound system while you sit in traffic.
That's really sad. At least you still have the autobahn and awesome racetracks like the Nürburgring. Surely you can still have fun on country side roads too? We have the same problem in the UK, but countryside roads remain a nice refuge for car enthusiasts who don't wish to drive on track.
@@DanielSadjadian They even started putting cameras on countryside roads! The worst thing is there are no towns around and the speed limit is 100km/h. Ofcourse there are some roads that you can tackle, it just has to be in the middle of the night to not get blocked by traffic.
Awesome video! It's like sitting at a coffee shop with your interesting car friends and learning a bunch of facts! Keep up the good work, because I don't have any interesting car friends, so I'm relying on you.
Audi 80-90, a3-a4 was great as 1.9tdi. Engine epic, transmission good, metal never rust, only problem is like you mentioned on those bushings that last short and are somewhat expensive
Someone wiser than me once said, "its better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow".
I traded my e92 for a Chevy SS because there was no logical reason to buy any new BMW over the chevy. I looked at M4s but it just wasnt worth the hell I know I'd go through.
+1. .. Good discussion. .. A personal experience was the Zuffenhaushen 964 production line; 1989 to 1993. .. Verses the late years time frame of the 993 production line; 1994 thru 1998. .. I'd order an MY98 993 C2S and continue to own. .. The Toyota production influence was somewhat scattered during the 993 productions and in full force with the 986/996 cars. .. Yeah, the interiors to mention but one area were/are junk. .. Cheers, Vail, Colorado
P.S., Drove/owned an MY95.5 Audi UrS6 Avant for better than a decade, agreed the 5cyl turbo w/5sp was a hoot.
This shows amazing and I don’t know why but I love it and even sitting at a table unscripted Camisa works the slapstick in lol. Seriously great show been sick catching up on all the episodes now
11:14 I've found there's a general buyer's interia for brands like that. Basically people tend to buy cars based on the brand/model, they like getting a new version of what they already have. If it's different, even if it's not necessarily better, buyers will continue to choose that car for no other reason than they like what they have.
Keep in mind for most people a car is one of the most significant purchases, that means lots of risk aversion. Which means it takes the time for the early adopters to cycle through their better option, before the main stream buyer starts to accept it. This is why brands can make one shit shit car and be fine so long as they course correct fast enough, and why it takes so long for manufacturers to react after they have genuinely screwed up a product.
Because if you're just looking at short term sales and retention of a newly screwed up product, things look fine. sales numbers are adequate and the bottom line has increased (usually). So usually this is when manufactures dive deeper into what caused the problem in the first place because if it didn't affect sales, and it increases the bottom line, why not go crazy with it? Then 2 generations later sales just suddenly tank, and everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out what happened.
22:14 also, I'm pretty sure tesla is about where BMW was 10 years ago. so I guess some things never change.
Have owned 2 E30 24V's, E36 M3, E46 M3, F80 M3, Z3M Coupe, 135i, 2 318ti's, E36 325is, E46 325i, E46 330i ZHP, E46 325iT and 2 997's...and a Shelby GT350...and maybe some others I'm forgetting along with a M2C.
The F30 is/was a joke, but somehow the M2C is amazing and I think it's one of the best M cars built to this day. Someone inside M cared about this one.
Great series. Just binge watched all of them
Awesome episode.
I can shed light on what the European perception of BMW is: it has a stereotype for being a beloved car brand of Kosovo Albanians to show off with, automechanically disinclined lawyers, doctors, and managers. Mr. Cammisa is spot on with the overcrowding on the German highways, cameras everywhere, and people being fed up with driving in general. It's rare in this day and age to see an automotive journalist with so much insight into cars and context around them these days.
Pretty accurate on BMW from a European perspective. I'll add that the EU is also protecting its market with very stringent regulations making it hard for othereise competitive (Hyundai, Mazda) or fun (Challenger, Mustang 350r) foreign manufacturers to get in. TBH I'd also add that Merc and even worse Porsche are in the same doll drum too big and heavy pointless cars. Reliability and customer service fot both these brands is dreadful too compared to BMW. But at least VAG cars have decent stylistic flair. BWW's are just either pig ugly or bland. Hell they even managed to ruin the Mini brand. Yes Mini sells more cars than ever, but the brand DNA is in tatters. IMHO last decent BMWs were E90 gen. They ought to make a series just for car enthusiasts, call it a "pure" range, get rid of all the useless shit, rwd, 6sp manual and a decent hifi. But that's wishful thinking. BMW made huge investments into building proper futur mobility cars such as the i3 and i8 got their fingers burned. Sadly the market prefers blinged up shit boxes... roll Audi and Mercedes....
The G20 3 series is an excellent car and the interior does not feel cheap to me. Until I sit in an Audi.. in any case, the new G20 is on the right track back to what BMW used to do well. I had a f36 430 Gran coupe and despite its good looks, it was a shot box that I do not miss. Oh, the current m2 competition drives like a dream and I like the m5 too, though every time you drive it, there is a good chance that you'll be arrested.
@3:07 you nailed it and it's sad to see
Good episode, guys. Can you do one on BMW now? There's PLENTY to complain about!
Mercedes Benz clearly has the worst quality interior at the moment
So true, I used to own a E82 128i manual sport pack and every time I dropped it for service and got a F30 335i or X3 35i as a loaner, although grateful to have a good loaner vs Enterprise, I could not wait to get my 128i back and just decided I would not replace it with a new BMW, just went with a new Genesis G70 instead, which feels like what a proper BMW used to feel like
To be fair they started cost cutting on the W124’s on their early 90’s refresh with the cheap wiring.
The disintegrating wire-harness stuff was from a soy-based insulation to please the Green Party. It probably cost them more to manufacture - and certainly cost them more in the long run. A bonehead move to be sure.
Mini didn't cancel their manuals, it was a temporary situation. 50% of Minis are sold with manuals.
Ive owned e46 and e39 solid cars.. miss them
M cars are still awesome today. M2 competition, M3,M4,M5 are better than most saloon cars out today.
As somewhat of a BMW fan boy, this is very eye opening and I can agree with it (excluding the M2).
PS,
LHS was my first car and I freakin loved it. Still miss it today.
Please don't limit these for 20 min. I could listen to y'all for hours!
Hey...this was good! Very knowledgeable dudes and entertaining.
Thanks! We'll try to make more mistakes next time! :)
@@JasonCammisa thanks buddy, I was counting on it! 😁
This could have been 2 hours longer.
Very good video! I have a Mercedes 190E 2.0 manual like my first car, and I love it. I live in Brazil, so it's a little bit exotic here.
2019 "BMW accelerating their demise."
2021 update: BMW M division hits record sales.
Honestly I get what you are saying about BMW. I think that certain cars still from them are still good. M2 is great. Even my f30 335i xdrive 6-speed manual is really good. Would be better with hydraulic steering, but still a good car. Drove it on the snow and at track days. Has enough space for a full set of wheels and tires with the seats down. My specific spec is extremely rare but still an exception to what is said in this video. The 328 loaner car is definitely a piece of shit compared to mine.
Most underated show on YT
its not only american, we totally agree with you in Europe as well
I really liked the conclusion stating that car brands have really long-lasting image... BMW like Mercedes in the past is lucky to keep selling their cars even if they're producing FWD pieces of garbage whereas Alfa Romeo which developped really good new cars struggles to sell anything... Audi is also reaching the cool status since 10 years basing everything on their image even though they never were able to produce one good handling car (maybe except the R8 but it's mainly a Lambo)
The RS4 B7 and the last TTRS are very handly ... on Forza motorsport 😜
What about Alfa reliability?
You are kinda wrong, sorry.
F30 is waaayyy above E90 regarding interior quality. I do not like it (I prefer my old E89 interior to the newer M3 CS one), but it is above it in quality. Also, a 335d is not quite a drivers car...it is heavy and sluggish, more like an Autobahnstormer.
Also, what's happening in Europe/Germany? Diesel shame, car prices gone through the roof so everyone buys used cars only, more stringent regulations, etc. But mostly, due to the higher cars prices, newer cars are bought usually by fleets, thus the development direction is dictated by what currently they prefer in a car: comfort and gadgets.
thefridgeman f30 is hot trash. I’ve had them as loaners a few times and would rather have a base Accord with the 1.5t and cvt trans. F30 is that bad.
@@bassandtrebleclef lmao, you need first to aford the insurance for the saxo, boy.
Very cool. Some pics would be awesome!
i am a bmw guy i love them but as soon as they switched to the F platform it just lost its way the i still like the m4 though
OMFreakingG....... just discovered this YT channel. l adore it ! I am a (Italian) car tragic and watch a fair bit of car related YT stuff but honestly find 99% is just absolute crap. FINALLY some people who speaks my mind.....there are times l just want to jump right into the conversation. l am virtually screaming PREACH IT BROTHERS !!
On the subject ....l also find vast majority of modern BMWs woefully underwhelming. They have never really done it for me (ok, l did look at a Z4 once, but nah, and there are some tempting oddballs, M140i). But, you could never say such things in public as you would be ridiculed and derided.
As a former boss of mine (and Series 5 owner) used to say...."why do people buy Beemers ? ... because it's a total wank"
You mention lag, Audi has suffered a MASSIVE negative lag in the USA because some idiots left their hand brake off and cried ‘run-a-way’ which all the press jumped on, totally unfair and unfounded but mud sticks and in this case for 30 yrs! Since the late 80’s they have made some awesome cars.
Can confirm; every luxury car my dad ever bought as his daily was a BMW until he bought a Tesla Model 3 a year ago
What about the M2 comp guys?🤯🔫💣
The new ones are getting better.
I have leased or owned eight BMWs in a row my last car was a 440 with a manual transmission and an M package I love the car Fire price was ridiculous and the attitude I got from the BMW salesman was indescribable I drove one of the newer cars I hated the way it looked I said if I’m gonna hate the car and I can’t buy a manual anyway I might as well get something I can rely on, drive to Lexis got an is 350 every day I get into the car I drive it to work I drive it home I have absolutely no feelings about the car it is no different than a toaster but at least I won’t be spending $1000 a month repairing it Bmw has just stopped building the car that I want to drive, and the dealers are repulsive.
Bought my first car in the spring. I chose a e46 320i Touring. 170Hp inline 6 and i paid 3000€ for mine with at the time 124k km. This sounds a lot like i bought the right car :D
As I'm binjing this serious, you guys are killing it. I honestly love the frankness and the IDGAF attitude towards it. I will agree with maybe throw up a quick pic of the cars you name/list for people that aren't quite as knowledgeable on model numbers.
The timer should be longer. Great show gentlemen!
I had a 1990 80 Quattro (10 valve inline 5) 5 speed as my first car. Super charming and a total pain in the dick to keep running. I miss it.
I had a 1990 Audi 90 (sadly not a quattro; couldn't find any quattros in the southeast) as my first car as well. Parents bought it for me quite inexpensively as it had a lot of miles on it. That engine had a lot of character, the interior was very nice compared to other contemporary cars, and certain systems were built like a tank. Certain other subsystems, though... let's just say those earned their reputation 🤣.
@@jsquared1013 I almost ended up with a 90 Quattro but the owner kept flaking and I settled for the 10v 80. Was probably for the best as the 80 was less heavily optioned so there were fewer things to go wrong and bleed high school me dry haha.
They're rare as shit in general now. I haven't seen a clean one for sale in California for years.
True story. Also, I could watch this for an hour.
Very subjective. For me it was a breath of fresh air when I switched to the F30 from the E90. If anything, the driving experience only got better.
Episode idea: cars great on the road. Forget about the track. Much of the US does not have easy access to the track. Break episode down to great on the road for you, for you and family, you and significant other. Cars with the most sense of occasion. Thank u keep up good work
My E36 is having a great life
Wow, can't say I agree. In the last 12 years, between my wife and I we've had 5 BMWs and I've been happy with all. I will agree the gap of them being the "ultimate driving machine" compared with other cars has greatly narrowed. But with every BMW I've owned I've been happy with driving dynamics, reliability, looks & build quality. I know some models have had issues, but you could say that about every car maker. I haven't hung on to one longterm and know this can be one of the complaints of over-engineered cars. Just saying my experiences and enjoyment has been very good, and don't feel BMW's are on a downward trajectory. There will always be the purists though that will favor the "good old days."
Carpe Diem I agree. I came to BMW after a long line of Honda’s, Acura’s and a Lexus GS350 F Sport. The F30 340i was my first foray into BMW. It was much more engaging than anything else I had owned in the past. The exception being my E30 which I bought a month before the F30. Just leased a M340i this weekend and it’s such a step up from the F30. My only complaint is that it feels bigger than my F30.
I generally agree with your sentiments regarding where BMW is going. One current exception is the 2 series. For the most part they got that right, could it be lighter, yes, could the steering be a little better, yes, but for the money, you are getting a very good, car with a great engine that IS fun to drive. Slap a few mods on and you have a serious road car. I also own a 718 Cayman S without the bullshit options and can say interiors are pretty close. Is the the driving experience better in the manual Porsche, yes, but you are talking a $30k difference in MSRP to the M240i. To me the 3 series (and the rest of their larger fleet) feels too big and for the other reasons you stated, is not for me. I haven’t driven the new Z4, but hope there is some light there as well.
Thanks for the videos. I’m really enjoying them.
Thank you - and thanks for the comments! I'd say you're definitely right about the M2. The last non-M 2-series I drove was worse than any Buick I've driven in decades, though.
I miss my e39 M5 like one might miss an amputated testicle. And I can't buy another one because a decent e39 with low mileage is now back up to its original MSRP from 20 years ago.
And just as they begin discussing the C4, SAVED BY THE BELL (err, 2 minute warning). As a former C4 S4 owner, yeah, lots of character and moments of brilliance, but I’d never own one today, mostly because scarcity of parts and the fact that I’m no longer interested in constantly wrenching to keep an almost-30-year-old platform on the road.
Damiler drained Chrysler dry and left it for dead when FCA became a thing
Knowing how much Derek loves old cars, it's no surprise at all that he dislikes new BMW's and prolly all other brands too. A great example would be the new Land Rover Defender. Traditionalists HATE the new one! It just lacks all the toughness of the old one. But car manufacturers are obviously going after a totally different crowd now - those who love creature comforts.
Sound like interesting show, but why it is not available on Apple podcasts?
Apple takes a long time to approve new podcasts. We submitted the show a while ago; still waiting for approval. For now, it's available on Spotify, Google Podcast, and SoundCloud. Hopefully Apple approves it ASAP!
Jason. Your a busy man. Wish I could pick your brain for 15 min about what would be a better choice for me for a used porsche. 911 or cayman.
Jason! For the love of god you deserve your own car show on Netflix!!!
I'm looking @ u Netflix.
In the words of George Costanza's boss...
HIRE THIS MAN 😁
You're not wrong. If Netflix wanted an answer to Amazon's Grand Tour this would be the guy to host it.
Wow when did Jason get his own channel?! Subbed
Also dig what you said about brands' reputation having a long life. I own three Alfa Romeos at the moment which I paid nothing for because they have a bad reputation in the UK for being rusty, unreliable and fragile. But they're none of those things. It's confirmation bias - people ignore facts contradicting the opinions they already have, and it takes a lot to change them.
I have to say, I don't have many issues with the current generation of BMW's, but the body lines do make the car look a little bit plasticky if you know what I mean, and also the tachometer going backwards is a no go for me.
Great show guys
I don't know. I drive a 2018 M2 and I don't notice any decrease in driving fun. In fact when I zoom around grandmas on the street, other younger drivers want to mix it up. So BMW still has some credibility on the street.