As life has backstabbed my game group, though not quite killed it, I took a D&D break. This was the first video I have seen on this topic in a month. Dang it was a good choice.
I am also making my own module-setting-ruleset inspired by Finnish folklore and mythology (Kalevala), and in Kalevala all sages, witches and singers gain power over nature and reality precisely by knowing appropriate true names or origin words of things. A true name of viper might allow to command adders to bite your enemies, the origin words of iron might allow you to un-do the wounds of swords and axes, the origin words of fire might allow you to remain unharmed even when picking hot rocks from a stove bare handed. Learning and gathering these words is sometimes the essential element of adventure in Kalevala poems, for example traveling to meet a sleeping giant or even into domain of death himself to ask for them. Kudos to you for this!
I always loved the model from Master of the Five Magics, by I think lyndon hardy(?) It feels very gameable and gives the GM several tools to throttle the amount of magic in their campaign while at the same time letting the player character feel powerful and have access to some awesome magic but at a cost. Done right I think it could be an epic way of running magic.
Vancian Magic is built into the D&D system and so it's really a big change to the mechanics and game balance to tinker with it. But it's also what makes game mechanics and game creation fun. :)
Earthsea is an absolute masterpiece of language, philosophy and poetry. My favourite is the farthest shore. "I do not care what comes after, I have seen the dragons on the wind of morning."
@@BanditsKeep same here XD, by the way, the dispossessed and the left hand of darkness are also masterpieces, and have lots good inspiration for world building as well.
Take a look at how magic works in Ars Magica, I believe it could improve your idea better. How it works (Summary) Like your system it works with the idea of words, but he uses Techniques (Verb) & Form (Noun) to compose a spell (in Latin). Also look at how the spell's duration and area of effect is determined. It would be nice to have a version of Ars Magica for D&D.
"It would be nice to have a version of Ars Magica for D&D." Yes, I'm still homebrewing, but this is something I want to do as well. And I like the idea that magicians get compelled into a hermetic order with many houses and specialties, and that magic outside this highly structured system is kind of chaotic. I like the idea of covenants where one can do research, and the idea of companions for mages (I'm thinking that players can play two characters as long as one character is somehow in the patronage or service of another player). There is a document floating around online - Liber Icosahedronis - that tries to combine the two, giving technique and form combinations for all the classic D&D spells, etc.
Just ran a Dungeon Crawl Classics one shot with this magic system and had a blast. To my horror the wizard chose “Skin” as their word. It went about as well as you would expect. Anything from pulling a shrieks head skin forcefully to the ground to knock it out to stealing skin from a horse to make leather armor. His first casting resulted in a catastrophe (snake eyes) so instead of skinning a single flying seagull he skinned the entire flock simultaneously raining down gore, skin, and feathers on the entire party forcing saves or damage. In addition he understood that the entire subconscious of the seagull race forever would hate him. Overall had a great time with it. I love the creativity that this brings. I allowed DCC spell burning with this system and that did add some chaos. Sebastian the Skin Wizard was able to suffocate an ancient titan guardian with a huge spell burn and a good roll. Unfortunately for him the Titan didn’t die immediately and it crushed him before he could get away. RIP Sebastian the Skizzard
What I like most about the things you create is that they allow for so much player creativity. This system will certainly cause some memorable moments in games. I like how open it is, and while I agree that it could get very powerful very fast, having good players and a savvy GM will help keep things a bit more balanced. Oh, and of course, who doesn't love a catastrophe now and then? That's part of what makes gaming fun!
I have a couple of things to say here. One is that this is a significant departure from the rules as written. Another is that i get confused about how your system really works. You in creating it have processed it so many times, that it must be second nature to you, but i am looking at it from the place of a novice. But third, i really like what you are capturing. When Radagast the Brown Wizard in Tolkien's writings rescued the Dwarves by and Bilbo by summoning the great eagles, why didn't he just use that magical favor right away to spirit them to their destination? No, he knew that magic that powerful had to be used with care. Gandalf the Grey, and later the White also consistently only used magic as needed, when other options had been exhausted.
I don't doubt it might be slightly confusing - this is very much a Beta document - there is a playtest where we use it if that interests you. ruclips.net/video/TkWBlE74l7c/видео.html
I love the Vancian ideas. My favorite magic system is from Terry Pratchett's Disc World (which is very similar to Vancian magic). Each spell is sort of a living thing that can be bound to pages and can live in the minds of wizards. When cast, the spell is released into the world to have its effect. The first two books of Disc World have a major plot point of a powerful spell trying to get itself cast...
Probably the best of these things to put in D&D is "if a wizard dies, all his spells cast themselves at once" - makes simply stabbing a wizard to death a dangerous proposition, since you don't know how many Hold Person or Fireball or whatever else he has memorized. Notably also, the first few books used a Vancian derived system (seemingly mostly as a reference to D&D) but later evolved into "spells as knowledge, magic is fatiguing to perform" which is my general preference wherein spells are known and practiced like skills and feats of magic always lead to exhaustion on some level.
Discworld does not have a magic system. It's an inconsistent collection of standalone ideas and parodies of other magic systems, primarily DnD Vancian magic.
This is very similar to Ars Magica where a sorcerer had power over a domain (Fire, Earth, Water, Beasts, Plants, etc.) I like that you used a 2d6 system as d20 is too swingy. Well done!
I really like the system. I've been thinking of a game with multiple spell systems that are class specific. This could be tailored to be the system used for, say, sorcerers. Another system would be component based for a hedge mage, wizards use the base Vancian system. Interesting possibilities here. All that is needed are mature, engaged, and committed players.
I have a group of very casual RPG players. We did something similar, but using the d20 and target numbers. The spell casting players preferred it since they didn't have to look up "boring" spell descriptions and could just be creative in the game.
It reminds me of Maze Rats version 2 (not the version 4.3 that Questing Beast is currently selling). In this system, magic is contained in sigils, which are arcane tattoos that the PCs can pick up in their adventures. The GM generates a name for each sigil like Tree Golem or Shielding Snow, and the name determines the effect. When the PC bearing the sigil wants to cast a spell, they tell the GM what effect they're trying to get out of the name (like using the Tree Golem sigil to give life to the trees surrounding a clearing to prevent an enemy's escape) and then the GM determines the cost in HP based on both the strength of the effect and how in line it is with the sigil's name. I'm currently running this system, and soon the PCs will find their first sigils. Hopefully it works out for them
Thank you for this. I'll definitely do a play test to see if this fits our group. I love the "fluidity" concept regarding magic, although it will require a lot more adjudication on my part. I've always wanted to incorporate the magic element of the Earthsea universe into my games as I find it to be the most amazing concept for magic in all of fantasy fiction. The "true name" element exudes the secrecy and mystery behind magic.
I like the ability to have this be very versatile. I am wanting to create a magic system based off of books/novels I really enjoy. With this WORD magic system, first thing that came to mind is SPACE. I'd be able to fold space to basically teleport, create rips/tears in it to deal damage, and distort space around myself to block projectiles.
Supper cool to see other people cooking up their own word based magic systems, I made something very similar to this based around adjectives and nouns, you've just got me pumped to revisit it :) also the inspiration from earth sea is so relateble, I'm trying to think about how the wizards learn the names of things to add as a mechanic
I love this! I had a similar concept in a super rules light system I created years ago and I considered something very similar for my OSR system. But this is perfect. Ready to go! I will give this a little but of thought and maybe tweak it slightly but I think I'll give this a go. Thank you Daniel!
@@BanditsKeep I will! It might take a while to have a wizard in a game using that system. Next game session is a new campaign using Worlds without Number.
Not sure about the new version, but the older version of whitehack uses similar system. In there you create spells/miracles by giving them names, either general or very specific. To cast a spell you sacrifice some of your HP, the cost is determined how does the effect you want to achieve match the name you have prepared. So creating an effect using a general "summon creature" will cost you more than if you use "animate rocks to create creatures". You will be able to use the first one more often though.
Interesting- not a fan of HP for spells, I went the direction in earlier versions of spell systems I made and found it lacking. Spell casters are generally low HO to start with.
@@BanditsKeep i don't remember the rules for HP distribution, but there is a rule for Wise (class that can cast miracles/spells) that they cannot be magically healed, nor using the medicine skills. They have to rest to recover HP, but they do recover twice as fast. So you either prepare very strict names for your spells or you cast them sparingly. (Just checked they do have less HP)
@@BanditsKeep based on ICRPG but with the BX spell list. Casters roll to cast and beat a Room DC. They can also fudge spells at penalties. And whenever they roll a 1 chaos brings down the Scourge. I also like the free mana point system of Vieja Escuela RPG (free pdf. check out my translation. It is a gateway game to the OSR for 5e people.) Wizards get points which increase with level or tge sacrifice of HP and can spend them on "magical effects" negotiated with the GM. I usually run this with the BX grimoire and allow for a 1 point per level of spell cast).
Hey! I love the concept. I actually came up with a magic system similar to this a few months ago, and made an entire game system around it. There definitely seems to be a convergence of thought about magic systems among people who have been playing TTRPGS for while.
Terrific video! You definitely put a lot of thought into this and look forward to results from your play testing. Since this video is two years old I’ll look for a follow-up video.
An interesting concept, some of the mechanics frostgrave has utilising d20. I like the 2d6 plus level mechanic concept for all spells. The doubles idea is pretty cool. Have you looked at the frostgrave spell failure mechanic?
Your system sounds like a really cool system, and as you noted if your players are really into role playing this should lead to some absolutely awesome moments in games. I would love to hear how it actually worked for you in play, maybe recount a couple of the more successful moments with it in another video? Or stream a live play with it from a session where it worked really well? I'm sure that would be a lot of work, but I think you're under something here. 👍 Love the idea of having a falcon go get your dinner for you in the wilderness. By the way the first word that came to my mind was FIRE! And I'm picturing me a 15th level wizard striking a spark then burning the enemy into Ash 🙂 I also think this would be an excellent model for handling technology in a Sci-Fi role-playing game.
There's a neat magic system in a mostly forgotten Delaware RPG which has many echos in your example! I am a long-time fan of it but have never DMed an adventure, sadly.
QUESTION: what if a player wants to combine two words. Like "time" and "Water" to create a more powerful effect where a river starts to flow uphill or something along those lines? Or "fire" and "beast" to summon a flame monster?
@@BanditsKeep thank you for this idea. I will try that with some friends who love to play, but don’t want to learn a lot of rules. This sounds like the perfect concept for us 💡
Oh that is interesting. There is spellcasting in a really rules lite system. It is intreaging how rules lite works in TTRPGs. It is like improv theater with the occasional dice roll. It is very different from other games. Crunchy TTRPGs have improv too, but they are more focused on statistics and calculations. Either way, this is unique. Even video game RPGs don't fully capture the improv nature. With something more unique, I see why TTRPG rulebooks tend to start by explaining what RPGs are like at all. The biggest analogy is playing make believe as children. Maybe there is a tradeoff with the two different approaches to TTRPGs. Crunchy has the challenge of working with more complex systems. Rules lite has the challenfe of working with more improv. Maybe rules lite doesn't automatically mean easier.
An udea i have is for the more soecific, powerful, or deadly a word the more devestating a catastrophe could potentially be. Want "Death" as your word to one shot villains? You can, but those double ones could cause a void in time and space to the underworld...😇
I've been looking around for a ritual system to support setting-dervied capabilities for Wizards. I want to involve my characters in the world so that they need to quest for knowledge and uncover secrets which they can use alongside the powerful but limited-frequency Vancian memorized spells. Yes, they'd have the potential to possess sagely lore, but I want them to be able to do things like harvest monster body parts, access leylines, interface with the woven folds of mythals, channel power from planar weak spots, establish domains of power.. things like that. I want them to thirst for power that rivals the gods without turning them into just a fancy weapon.
A nice revised system to cast spells. My two main questions are - what problem is this solving and is learning the new casting system worth the effort for players? In other words, this sounds good conceptually - but will it be worthwhile in practice? Another point I heard the other day which I liked - the Class is Magic-user, not Spell-caster; the suggestion being that Spells were just part of a Magic-users arsenal and they should be busy collecting and using any magic items they can get their hands on and use those as their primary weapon.
Good points. I think the system offers creative players more flexibility in their casting and changes the world in a substantial way in that it creates a generally “high magic” situation. Players picked it up in about 3 minutes so that was nit an issue at all. I agree that spells are not all that make a magic user and in my video about them I do discuss this. Thanks!
This gets really interesting if you allow players to combine their words in a single spell. What could you do with Mind Forest or Death Trickery? Summon a succubus with Enervation - Love - Demon.
@@BanditsKeep You could make it crunchy by saying that the number of additional words that can be woven into a spell equals the caster's WIS mod, and beyond that limit the caster suffers a -1 penalty to the TN for each word.
Do diffrent classes have any major differences in casting? If i missed it in the video i apologize im gana rewatch a few more times the system is something i wana impliment into my game. Love the work man keep it up!
The casting process is the same, Clerics just get the words at different levels. While I don’t have it written into the rules, I would likely advise people to have a Clerics choose words that make sense for that type of niche and magic users the same.
This is interesting, and I may use the concept of ‘words’ as magical domains for one of my home brew games, because the current system there are only 8 schools of magic, and wizards learn 1 school at a time, and can use their imagination to use that magic, but I’ve always thought the domains (eg elemental) were too broad. The magic system I’m currently running in my homebrew 5e campaign replaces spell slots with the use of a substance called Octivium. Each spell and magic effect uses Octivium and the players have to find it out in the world in order to use magic. This was done purely for the world building aspect of the game, coz this way magic has a cost, and Octivium is also used as a currency in some areas. I’m currently balancing the system as we go through the campaign, but so far it’s working well
Wow, another Earthsea fan, I'm kinda shocked. idk why, but it seems that the vast majority of players haven't read it. I and Marc Miller agree that 8+ on 2d6 is the right weight, although Traveller usually caps DMs to +/-5 (interesting that the minimum roll of 2 +5, is short of 8 by 1). I'll add that I found Bruce Galloway's "Fantasy Wargaming" helpful to me when considering an alternate system of magic for a world similar to Le Guin's creation. The astrological basis works well in that it allows you to group things by something independent of a direct word/name/meaning. As an aside, I think that a system of astrology that directly relates to magic in the world allows some really deep world building, and it extends to non-magician characters through the system of correspondences. There is a LL add-on by an Indy that I can't recall which is "Enchanter class for LL" which models Prospero and Ariel really well, where the magician has another entity work magic for them. All that said, thanks for the video on a really fun topic!
Ohhh thats really inspiring! I choose this to offer some more options for one of my player but also choose to let have is other spell. We are playing Low Fantasy Gaming (LFG). Do you know that system?
Very cool, let me know how it works out - I’ve played a little low fantasy gaming and have converted many of their adventures to other systems, nice stuff
This is unsolicited, and I am sorry if I sound creepy. You're a handsome dude. I've been teetering on switching over to 13th Age, Pathfinder 1e or 2e. I can't really decide, but I feel ready to "graduate" from 5e.
My mom agrees ☺️. I’d recommend trying some one shots in those to see what you like. 13th age seems interesting, personally I feel like pathfinder might be very close to 5e with some extra crunch if that’s what you like, it could be good. I have no real experience with any of those though.
I really like your Words spell system. Didnt ARS MAGICA do something similar? Id maybe give a specific WORD at every Level, but a broader more generic Word counts as 2 choices. Specific Word like Bird is one choice. Animals or Nature would be 2 Words. Id have to work on it and playtest. Id prefer d20 over 2d6, but thats just me. 1 is critical fail, 20 critical success. Thanks for this.
I really like it but wouldn’t use it. Too easy to spam. Example steel Character can now collapse enemies helmets on their heads got instant kill or bend all enemy swords. Example ants Ants are everywhere in all climates they can now be used to blind all opponents
Counterpoint: if enemies know magic exists, and their armour is made of one, common material, they mightve encountered/figured out a mage could easily turn that against them, thus mixing up their armour, or making compounds and alloys, making a "steel" mage be less effective. Plus, I still think with the roll no player would be universally dominant in this regard
@@spudsbuchlaw players would just get pissy when you change things up on them after they picked their foolproof word of power. I really like the concept but it’s one of those really cool concepts that’s open ended and leaves enough room for interpretation that players get mad when you make the roll too high in their opinion or disallow the spell for the situation.
@@erikmartin4996 Even if you always allow them to use their spell, the idea of "I crush their skull with their helmets" is kinda wack. I mean, you can exert magical pressure, but cracking a skull would be pretty hard. I'd just have them roll damage and say that's how well it crushed em. If you're players are gonna be pissy no matter what you might not have good players
I love the concept. Were it more balanced with the standard system, I would very much like to implement it to differenciate elf or cleric magic from magic-user magic. Perhaps cleric could have dominion over their deity's domains witch are, in essence, words... Nevertheless, I would very much like to hear about your other magic systems. Maybe I'll find a system to differenciate elf magic (that would be inspired by fey magic) from any other type of magic?
Ah yes, this is certainly not balanced - I think it would be difficult to do without limiting the scope. Which is what I like about the system. I have used Wonders and Wickedness by Lost Pages on occasion as elf or MU spells (keeping the other traditional ) and that works out to be pretty balanced.
Out of curiosity have you read the Dying Earth stories? I've been reading them recently because of the DCC kickstarter and really enjoying them. There's some pretty unpleasant old-fashioned aspects about them, but overall enjoyable.
great stuff dude, but please (and I mean this constructively and with respect), talk a little slower ok? But serious kudos, very creative and different, I like it.
It feels like you just took god Domains and used them to create the barest bone beginnings of a magic system, but this needs tons of work before it can be called that. Especially for DnD, I see so much that contradicts or ignores the DnD RPG system, like the way you define scaling and duration. You can actually Google help and guidelines for making your own spells or homebrew add-ons that you'd benefit from reading even if you keep things on this minimalistic level, because this just isn't gonna blend with the specific game at all.
Link to the system (Beta Doc) - drive.google.com/file/d/1hJhAf8-2bCP4SGkejx1lvT-L3Fx1AneV/view?usp=sharing
As life has backstabbed my game group, though not quite killed it, I took a D&D break. This was the first video I have seen on this topic in a month. Dang it was a good choice.
Sometimes a break will bring us back stronger!
I am also making my own module-setting-ruleset inspired by Finnish folklore and mythology (Kalevala), and in Kalevala all sages, witches and singers gain power over nature and reality precisely by knowing appropriate true names or origin words of things.
A true name of viper might allow to command adders to bite your enemies, the origin words of iron might allow you to un-do the wounds of swords and axes, the origin words of fire might allow you to remain unharmed even when picking hot rocks from a stove bare handed.
Learning and gathering these words is sometimes the essential element of adventure in Kalevala poems, for example traveling to meet a sleeping giant or even into domain of death himself to ask for them.
Kudos to you for this!
That sounds amazing - do you have a recommendation for a source of Kalevala poems? They sound like great reads!
I always loved the model from Master of the Five Magics, by I think lyndon hardy(?) It feels very gameable and gives the GM several tools to throttle the amount of magic in their campaign while at the same time letting the player character feel powerful and have access to some awesome magic but at a cost. Done right I think it could be an epic way of running magic.
Indeed
Vancian Magic is built into the D&D system and so it's really a big change to the mechanics and game balance to tinker with it. But it's also what makes game mechanics and game creation fun. :)
For sure - I love to tinker and try new things, worst case, I go back to Vance which I really like.
Earthsea is an absolute masterpiece of language, philosophy and poetry. My favourite is the farthest shore. "I do not care what comes after, I have seen the dragons on the wind of morning."
Agreed, the sad part is I never read them until about 3 years ago.
@@BanditsKeep same here XD, by the way, the dispossessed and the left hand of darkness are also masterpieces, and have lots good inspiration for world building as well.
@@al2642 I’ll check those out, thanks!
Take a look at how magic works in Ars Magica, I believe it could improve your idea better.
How it works (Summary)
Like your system it works with the idea of words, but he uses Techniques (Verb) & Form (Noun) to compose a spell (in Latin).
Also look at how the spell's duration and area of effect is determined.
It would be nice to have a version of Ars Magica for D&D.
Sounds cool, I’ll check it out
"It would be nice to have a version of Ars Magica for D&D."
Yes, I'm still homebrewing, but this is something I want to do as well. And I like the idea that magicians get compelled into a hermetic order with many houses and specialties, and that magic outside this highly structured system is kind of chaotic. I like the idea of covenants where one can do research, and the idea of companions for mages (I'm thinking that players can play two characters as long as one character is somehow in the patronage or service of another player).
There is a document floating around online - Liber Icosahedronis - that tries to combine the two, giving technique and form combinations for all the classic D&D spells, etc.
Just ran a Dungeon Crawl Classics one shot with this magic system and had a blast. To my horror the wizard chose “Skin” as their word. It went about as well as you would expect. Anything from pulling a shrieks head skin forcefully to the ground to knock it out to stealing skin from a horse to make leather armor. His first casting resulted in a catastrophe (snake eyes) so instead of skinning a single flying seagull he skinned the entire flock simultaneously raining down gore, skin, and feathers on the entire party forcing saves or damage. In addition he understood that the entire subconscious of the seagull race forever would hate him. Overall had a great time with it. I love the creativity that this brings. I allowed DCC spell burning with this system and that did add some chaos. Sebastian the Skin Wizard was able to suffocate an ancient titan guardian with a huge spell burn and a good roll. Unfortunately for him the Titan didn’t die immediately and it crushed him before he could get away. RIP Sebastian the Skizzard
That sounds amazing!
What I like most about the things you create is that they allow for so much player creativity. This system will certainly cause some memorable moments in games. I like how open it is, and while I agree that it could get very powerful very fast, having good players and a savvy GM will help keep things a bit more balanced. Oh, and of course, who doesn't love a catastrophe now and then? That's part of what makes gaming fun!
I totally agree 😊
I have a couple of things to say here. One is that this is a significant departure from the rules as written. Another is that i get confused about how your system really works. You in creating it have processed it so many times, that it must be second nature to you, but i am looking at it from the place of a novice. But third, i really like what you are capturing. When Radagast the Brown Wizard in Tolkien's writings rescued the Dwarves by and Bilbo by summoning the great eagles, why didn't he just use that magical favor right away to spirit them to their destination? No, he knew that magic that powerful had to be used with care. Gandalf the Grey, and later the White also consistently only used magic as needed, when other options had been exhausted.
I don't doubt it might be slightly confusing - this is very much a Beta document - there is a playtest where we use it if that interests you. ruclips.net/video/TkWBlE74l7c/видео.html
You had me at Earthsea. I've been trying to recreate the feel of that style of magic in my games for years now
Such a great series of books
I love the Vancian ideas. My favorite magic system is from Terry Pratchett's Disc World (which is very similar to Vancian magic). Each spell is sort of a living thing that can be bound to pages and can live in the minds of wizards. When cast, the spell is released into the world to have its effect. The first two books of Disc World have a major plot point of a powerful spell trying to get itself cast...
Very cool!
Probably the best of these things to put in D&D is "if a wizard dies, all his spells cast themselves at once" - makes simply stabbing a wizard to death a dangerous proposition, since you don't know how many Hold Person or Fireball or whatever else he has memorized.
Notably also, the first few books used a Vancian derived system (seemingly mostly as a reference to D&D) but later evolved into "spells as knowledge, magic is fatiguing to perform" which is my general preference wherein spells are known and practiced like skills and feats of magic always lead to exhaustion on some level.
Discworld does not have a magic system. It's an inconsistent collection of standalone ideas and parodies of other magic systems, primarily DnD Vancian magic.
This is very similar to Ars Magica where a sorcerer had power over a domain (Fire, Earth, Water, Beasts, Plants, etc.) I like that you used a 2d6 system as d20 is too swingy. Well done!
I’ll have to check that out! Thanks 🙏🏻
I really like the system. I've been thinking of a game with multiple spell systems that are class specific. This could be tailored to be the system used for, say, sorcerers. Another system would be component based for a hedge mage, wizards use the base Vancian system. Interesting possibilities here. All that is needed are mature, engaged, and committed players.
That is also a dream of mine - I’d love for many magic systems to exists and the players to engage with them!
I have a group of very casual RPG players. We did something similar, but using the d20 and target numbers. The spell casting players preferred it since they didn't have to look up "boring" spell descriptions and could just be creative in the game.
Nice
It reminds me of Maze Rats version 2 (not the version 4.3 that Questing Beast is currently selling). In this system, magic is contained in sigils, which are arcane tattoos that the PCs can pick up in their adventures. The GM generates a name for each sigil like Tree Golem or Shielding Snow, and the name determines the effect. When the PC bearing the sigil wants to cast a spell, they tell the GM what effect they're trying to get out of the name (like using the Tree Golem sigil to give life to the trees surrounding a clearing to prevent an enemy's escape) and then the GM determines the cost in HP based on both the strength of the effect and how in line it is with the sigil's name. I'm currently running this system, and soon the PCs will find their first sigils. Hopefully it works out for them
Sounds like Whitehack, very cool.
That sounds super interesting, let me know how it plays out at the table!
Thank you for this. I'll definitely do a play test to see if this fits our group. I love the "fluidity" concept regarding magic, although it will require a lot more adjudication on my part. I've always wanted to incorporate the magic element of the Earthsea universe into my games as I find it to be the most amazing concept for magic in all of fantasy fiction. The "true name" element exudes the secrecy and mystery behind magic.
For sure! Let me know how it works out
7:50
Forces to be more resourceful and aware of environment
12:36 catastrophe charts for failure of spells
Very interesting. I could definitely use it in a heavier magic campaign. Thank you for sharing!
Awesome, if you give it a try, let me know how it works for you.
Hi! Been enjoying your content!
Thank You!
I like the ability to have this be very versatile. I am wanting to create a magic system based off of books/novels I really enjoy. With this WORD magic system, first thing that came to mind is SPACE. I'd be able to fold space to basically teleport, create rips/tears in it to deal damage, and distort space around myself to block projectiles.
Supper cool to see other people cooking up their own word based magic systems, I made something very similar to this based around adjectives and nouns, you've just got me pumped to revisit it :) also the inspiration from earth sea is so relateble, I'm trying to think about how the wizards learn the names of things to add as a mechanic
Very cool! Ah yes - could make it that common words (names) can be learned in a library but others must be quested for
I love this! I had a similar concept in a super rules light system I created years ago and I considered something very similar for my OSR system. But this is perfect. Ready to go! I will give this a little but of thought and maybe tweak it slightly but I think I'll give this a go. Thank you Daniel!
Awesome, let me know how it works out for you!
@@BanditsKeep I will! It might take a while to have a wizard in a game using that system. Next game session is a new campaign using Worlds without Number.
Commenting for the yt algorithm. You always produce such great content!
Agreed
🙏🏻
Thank You!
Not sure about the new version, but the older version of whitehack uses similar system.
In there you create spells/miracles by giving them names, either general or very specific. To cast a spell you sacrifice some of your HP, the cost is determined how does the effect you want to achieve match the name you have prepared.
So creating an effect using a general "summon creature" will cost you more than if you use "animate rocks to create creatures". You will be able to use the first one more often though.
Interesting- not a fan of HP for spells, I went the direction in earlier versions of spell systems I made and found it lacking. Spell casters are generally low HO to start with.
@@BanditsKeep i don't remember the rules for HP distribution, but there is a rule for Wise (class that can cast miracles/spells) that they cannot be magically healed, nor using the medicine skills. They have to rest to recover HP, but they do recover twice as fast.
So you either prepare very strict names for your spells or you cast them sparingly.
(Just checked they do have less HP)
great deepthink as always. My previous campaign had a similar system and it worked wonders. Iron Rations for the algorithm.
Nice! Was it a homebrew system or one you found.
@@BanditsKeep based on ICRPG but with the BX spell list. Casters roll to cast and beat a Room DC. They can also fudge spells at penalties. And whenever they roll a 1 chaos brings down the Scourge. I also like the free mana point system of Vieja Escuela RPG (free pdf. check out my translation. It is a gateway game to the OSR for 5e people.) Wizards get points which increase with level or tge sacrifice of HP and can spend them on "magical effects" negotiated with the GM. I usually run this with the BX grimoire and allow for a 1 point per level of spell cast).
@@rolanejo8512 cool!
Hey! I love the concept. I actually came up with a magic system similar to this a few months ago, and made an entire game system around it. There definitely seems to be a convergence of thought about magic systems among people who have been playing TTRPGS for while.
Very cool! I’d love to hear more
Terrific video! You definitely put a lot of thought into this and look forward to results from your play testing. Since this video is two years old I’ll look for a follow-up video.
We played for a bit then moved on, but I have heard from others who have used the system to good effect.
An interesting concept, some of the mechanics frostgrave has utilising d20. I like the 2d6 plus level mechanic concept for all spells. The doubles idea is pretty cool. Have you looked at the frostgrave spell failure mechanic?
I have not, but I was gifted Frostgrave a while back so I can grab it off my shelf, thanks!
This is awesome! I'm looking forwards to try it out with my players, open ended systems are usually up their alley.
Awesome! Let me k ow how it plays out!
I really like this, the chance for catastrophe and to loose a spell for a day balance the power for me.
Thanks Jason, I think it can be more powerful than typical magic but definitely has a risk vs reward Balance (or tries to anyway)
Really interesting concept on magic! Your videos are great! Thanks! 😊
Thank You!
This is really a great concept, worth working on!
Thank You!
Your system sounds like a really cool system, and as you noted if your players are really into role playing this should lead to some absolutely awesome moments in games. I would love to hear how it actually worked for you in play, maybe recount a couple of the more successful moments with it in another video? Or stream a live play with it from a session where it worked really well? I'm sure that would be a lot of work, but I think you're under something here. 👍
Love the idea of having a falcon go get your dinner for you in the wilderness.
By the way the first word that came to my mind was FIRE! And I'm picturing me a 15th level wizard striking a spark then burning the enemy into Ash 🙂
I also think this would be an excellent model for handling technology in a Sci-Fi role-playing game.
We had fun with this for a bit, but then abandoned the idea - perhaps I'll pick it up again
This is such a cool way of doing it. Will try it out in a one shot if I can get my players in on it.
Thank! Let me know how it works out for your group
This is great, I love it.
Thank You!
I love Earthsea and really like this idea. thank you
Awesome! Thanks
There's a neat magic system in a mostly forgotten Delaware RPG which has many echos in your example! I am a long-time fan of it but have never DMed an adventure, sadly.
Oh, interesting!
Oooooh, I really like this! Though I really like using d20 rolls for checks like this, but most of it could be easily ported to my own game. Thanks!
Awesome, let me know if you create something for your game, I’d be very curious
QUESTION: what if a player wants to combine two words. Like "time" and "Water" to create a more powerful effect where a river starts to flow uphill or something along those lines? Or "fire" and "beast" to summon a flame monster?
That would be amazing! I’d say if the two words gets you closer the difficulty check would be lower.
@@BanditsKeep thank you for this idea. I will try that with some friends who love to play, but don’t want to learn a lot of rules. This sounds like the perfect concept for us 💡
@@Frederic_S awesome, let me know how it works for you!
Oh that is interesting. There is spellcasting in a really rules lite system. It is intreaging how rules lite works in TTRPGs. It is like improv theater with the occasional dice roll. It is very different from other games. Crunchy TTRPGs have improv too, but they are more focused on statistics and calculations. Either way, this is unique. Even video game RPGs don't fully capture the improv nature. With something more unique, I see why TTRPG rulebooks tend to start by explaining what RPGs are like at all. The biggest analogy is playing make believe as children. Maybe there is a tradeoff with the two different approaches to TTRPGs. Crunchy has the challenge of working with more complex systems. Rules lite has the challenfe of working with more improv. Maybe rules lite doesn't automatically mean easier.
Great point!
Power words as another form of magic, gathered as treasure. Maybe use as rune magic?
An udea i have is for the more soecific, powerful, or deadly a word the more devestating a catastrophe could potentially be. Want "Death" as your word to one shot villains? You can, but those double ones could cause a void in time and space to the underworld...😇
Indeed
I've been looking around for a ritual system to support setting-dervied capabilities for Wizards.
I want to involve my characters in the world so that they need to quest for knowledge and uncover secrets which they can use alongside the powerful but limited-frequency Vancian memorized spells.
Yes, they'd have the potential to possess sagely lore, but I want them to be able to do things like harvest monster body parts, access leylines, interface with the woven folds of mythals, channel power from planar weak spots, establish domains of power.. things like that. I want them to thirst for power that rivals the gods without turning them into just a fancy weapon.
Sounds awesome - Cook/Marsh expert book talks a bit about that stuff - rituals etc
A nice revised system to cast spells. My two main questions are - what problem is this solving and is learning the new casting system worth the effort for players? In other words, this sounds good conceptually - but will it be worthwhile in practice? Another point I heard the other day which I liked - the Class is Magic-user, not Spell-caster; the suggestion being that Spells were just part of a Magic-users arsenal and they should be busy collecting and using any magic items they can get their hands on and use those as their primary weapon.
Good points. I think the system offers creative players more flexibility in their casting and changes the world in a substantial way in that it creates a generally “high magic” situation. Players picked it up in about 3 minutes so that was nit an issue at all. I agree that spells are not all that make a magic user and in my video about them I do discuss this. Thanks!
@@BanditsKeep Anything that encourages creative uses for magic I'm in favour of. Glad it was picked up easily, would be interesting to see it in use!
@@TheK5K Here you go: ruclips.net/video/TkWBlE74l7c/видео.html
Can you expand your thoughts on why you reverted back to Vancian magic and actually prefer it? Or share a link where you discussed it before?
Simplicity is the basic answer but perhaps a video might be worthwhile!
Very cool system, can't wait to see what you come up with next.
Thanks!
I really wanna try this out...
Let me know how it works for you
This gets really interesting if you allow players to combine their words in a single spell. What could you do with Mind Forest or Death Trickery? Summon a succubus with Enervation - Love - Demon.
Yes!
@@BanditsKeep You could make it crunchy by saying that the number of additional words that can be woven into a spell equals the caster's WIS mod, and beyond that limit the caster suffers a -1 penalty to the TN for each word.
Sounds like true Name based magic from the tome of.magic in 3.5. But this seems some what simpler.
Oh? That’s cool, I’ll have to see if I can find that book - so much cool stuff I missed in 3x era
Do diffrent classes have any major differences in casting? If i missed it in the video i apologize im gana rewatch a few more times the system is something i wana impliment into my game. Love the work man keep it up!
The casting process is the same, Clerics just get the words at different levels. While I don’t have it written into the rules, I would likely advise people to have a Clerics choose words that make sense for that type of niche and magic users the same.
This is interesting, and I may use the concept of ‘words’ as magical domains for one of my home brew games, because the current system there are only 8 schools of magic, and wizards learn 1 school at a time, and can use their imagination to use that magic, but I’ve always thought the domains (eg elemental) were too broad.
The magic system I’m currently running in my homebrew 5e campaign replaces spell slots with the use of a substance called Octivium. Each spell and magic effect uses Octivium and the players have to find it out in the world in order to use magic. This was done purely for the world building aspect of the game, coz this way magic has a cost, and Octivium is also used as a currency in some areas. I’m currently balancing the system as we go through the campaign, but so far it’s working well
Sounds very cool
Wow, another Earthsea fan, I'm kinda shocked. idk why, but it seems that the vast majority of players haven't read it. I and Marc Miller agree that 8+ on 2d6 is the right weight, although Traveller usually caps DMs to +/-5 (interesting that the minimum roll of 2 +5, is short of 8 by 1). I'll add that I found Bruce Galloway's "Fantasy Wargaming" helpful to me when considering an alternate system of magic for a world similar to Le Guin's creation. The astrological basis works well in that it allows you to group things by something independent of a direct word/name/meaning. As an aside, I think that a system of astrology that directly relates to magic in the world allows some really deep world building, and it extends to non-magician characters through the system of correspondences. There is a LL add-on by an Indy that I can't recall which is "Enchanter class for LL" which models Prospero and Ariel really well, where the magician has another entity work magic for them. All that said, thanks for the video on a really fun topic!
Cool
Ohhh thats really inspiring! I choose this to offer some more options for one of my player but also choose to let have is other spell. We are playing Low Fantasy Gaming (LFG). Do you know that system?
Very cool, let me know how it works out - I’ve played a little low fantasy gaming and have converted many of their adventures to other systems, nice stuff
18:33 u2
You should do a video about the Free Kriegsspiel Renaissance.
Questing. Beast just did one, very much worth checking out IMO
This is unsolicited, and I am sorry if I sound creepy. You're a handsome dude.
I've been teetering on switching over to 13th Age, Pathfinder 1e or 2e. I can't really decide, but I feel ready to "graduate" from 5e.
My mom agrees ☺️. I’d recommend trying some one shots in those to see what you like. 13th age seems interesting, personally I feel like pathfinder might be very close to 5e with some extra crunch if that’s what you like, it could be good. I have no real experience with any of those though.
Repel Law Enforcement - "Idu natkon cent" - level 0 Abjuration Cantrip
No cantrips! 😂
Love it - very similar to Whitehack!
I’ll need to check out white hack, a few people have mentioned that
I’ll have to use this at some point
Let me know how it works out
I really like your Words spell system. Didnt ARS MAGICA do something similar?
Id maybe give a specific WORD at every Level, but a broader more generic Word counts as 2 choices.
Specific Word like Bird is one choice.
Animals or Nature would be 2 Words.
Id have to work on it and playtest. Id prefer d20 over 2d6, but thats just me.
1 is critical fail, 20 critical success.
Thanks for this.
Let me know how you work it out - I like those ideas
I really like it but wouldn’t use it. Too easy to spam.
Example steel
Character can now collapse enemies helmets on their heads got instant kill or bend all enemy swords.
Example ants
Ants are everywhere in all climates they can now be used to blind all opponents
For sure - this can be a very powerful system, much more so than Vancian in the hands of creative players.
Counterpoint: if enemies know magic exists, and their armour is made of one, common material, they mightve encountered/figured out a mage could easily turn that against them, thus mixing up their armour, or making compounds and alloys, making a "steel" mage be less effective.
Plus, I still think with the roll no player would be universally dominant in this regard
@@spudsbuchlaw players would just get pissy when you change things up on them after they picked their foolproof word of power. I really like the concept but it’s one of those really cool concepts that’s open ended and leaves enough room for interpretation that players get mad when you make the roll too high in their opinion or disallow the spell for the situation.
@@erikmartin4996 Even if you always allow them to use their spell, the idea of "I crush their skull with their helmets" is kinda wack. I mean, you can exert magical pressure, but cracking a skull would be pretty hard. I'd just have them roll damage and say that's how well it crushed em. If you're players are gonna be pissy no matter what you might not have good players
@@spudsbuchlaw I agree with you
You probably won’t read this but could you tell me the name of the painting in the thumbnail? Thanks, love the ideas!
It is by Warwick Goble “fairy tale prince and dragon”
I love the concept. Were it more balanced with the standard system, I would very much like to implement it to differenciate elf or cleric magic from magic-user magic. Perhaps cleric could have dominion over their deity's domains witch are, in essence, words...
Nevertheless, I would very much like to hear about your other magic systems. Maybe I'll find a system to differenciate elf magic (that would be inspired by fey magic) from any other type of magic?
Ah yes, this is certainly not balanced - I think it would be difficult to do without limiting the scope. Which is what I like about the system. I have used Wonders and Wickedness by Lost Pages on occasion as elf or MU spells (keeping the other traditional ) and that works out to be pretty balanced.
Thanks! I'll look into it!
Out of curiosity have you read the Dying Earth stories? I've been reading them recently because of the DCC kickstarter and really enjoying them. There's some pretty unpleasant old-fashioned aspects about them, but overall enjoyable.
Yes, Dying Earth is huge influence on me for sure
My word "Sheep-poo"
🐑
great stuff dude, but please (and I mean this constructively and with respect), talk a little slower ok? But serious kudos, very creative and different, I like it.
Sadly I am unable to do that. But thanks!
It feels like you just took god Domains and used them to create the barest bone beginnings of a magic system, but this needs tons of work before it can be called that. Especially for DnD, I see so much that contradicts or ignores the DnD RPG system, like the way you define scaling and duration. You can actually Google help and guidelines for making your own spells or homebrew add-ons that you'd benefit from reading even if you keep things on this minimalistic level, because this just isn't gonna blend with the specific game at all.
There are some words of power in GLOG
I’m not familiar with GLOG I’ll have to check it out.
Sorry for ruining the 666 likes ( I am like 667)