Compressor Surge Explained [GO FAST BRETT]
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In this brand new series created by Mighty Car Mods, Go Fast Brett explains all things turbo, blow off valve and choo choo. In this episode we talking compressor surge!
This series is proudly brought to you by Mighty Car Mods and GFB
www.gfb.com.au
www.mightycarm...
![Internal VS External Wastegate Explained [GO FAST BRETT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EI7W7AorDww/mqdefault.jpg)
![Internal VS External Wastegate Explained [GO FAST BRETT]](/img/tr.png)
![Is it safe to vent your Blow Off Valve to atmosphere? [GO FAST BRETT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bsy9hJic7cQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As some of you may have heard from our recent episodes, we’re launching some new videos on MCMTV2 that are created by us and hosted by people who are experts in their field! The first new series is called ‘Go Fast Brett’ which is all about turbo things, blow off valves, general choo choo activities and aims to explain common turbo questions, boost issues plus showcase some of the awesome stuff that Brett has made during his time as a mechanical engineer.
Some of you may recognise Brett from our early MCM videos. He’s an automotive mechanical engineer who has invented and developed all sorts of incredible turbo bits and pieces that are used in cars all over the world. He’s helped us out with numerous episodes over the years from our Blow Off Valve Mythbusted episode 7 years ago through to including making the custom supercharger pulley for the MCM Mini.
We hope you enjoy the series!
my name jeff
+Harry Sandbach My name jeff! My name jeff? :D
This is good stuff guys!
i cant wait to go down church street in my blaack vl commodore
absolutely awesome. keep this kinda video coming
Finally an explanation to half the videos on my channel haha ✌
FUCK YEAHHHHHH MONKY LONDON. I LOVE YOU
+That Yeti Guy ayy lmao
+That Yeti Guy 👍
Nom nom
Your not very technical Toby lol
a gobbling turkey broke my shaft one time
sounds painful
Um... hmmm.
...Are you saying you fucked a turkey?
Hate when it happens
I'm on the same path!
BRAP BRAP BRAP STUTUTUTututtututut
Same
Your picture is just perfect for this comment.
rotary sounds **wink**
aw gee rick
Aaaaaand the turbo goes boom
"Even though it sounds mad hectic in your VL..." LOL
It would be good if he explained that off throttle surge has been proven to have very little effect on the turbo in the real world, in terms of causing damage and reducing the life of the turbo most of the time.
Is it safe to block off a bov on a journal bearing turbo (2020 veloster n performance package) to be exact
We have already done and but I seen someone say it’s not safe on journal bearing turbos so now I’m all worried
@@zaneelliott7538 it’s safe. Off throttle surge won’t really damage a turbo. Turning up the boost etc will do way more harm.
@@zaneelliott7538 its safe, but the journal bearings will recieve more wear as they can't handle it as well as the ball bearings. but otherwise it shouldn't do much
Dude you just explained exactly what is occurring on my Forte5 1.6Turbo. Thank you so much, I’m pushing 18-23+ on a stock K04 and have serious surging under acceleration. I lowered it down to 16-21psi and upgraded my bov and wastegate solenoids with pierburgh solenoids. Completely fixed my issue. I owe you a beer
Very professional explanation that anyone interested in cars will understand. Well done Brett and MCM
"Mad hectic in your VL" I almost fucking died thanks mate.
Must admit, prefer these kind of videos more than the "engineering explained" videos.
Not sure if it's the style of it, the music, or Brett isn't awkward.
Disagree. The math and physics in Engineering Explained very helpful in understanding the subject.
Me too. I find him boring and kind of akward, although quite imformative.
+Eugene Hvorostyanov Sometimes I find the obsessive data and math to be distracting in his videos. This was very informative but not overloading with information.
Yeah I have to disagree. The drawings helps a lot and explanation is so much better from Engineering Explained. Not saying this won't get better, but yeah. Also Engineering explained is not supported by a specific brand. Not saying Brett isn't knowledgable, but his part of a parts company, particularly blow off valves. A BoV seller telling you that you need a BoV, not really right to me.
No idea what you guys are on or whether you're also American. But his voice alone is enough to turn me off from watching him. Let alone the ridiculously indepth over complication of it all.
It's like sitting in a Uni lecture
wow; no misinformation...very weird for a youtube informational video. (talking about you, EngineeringExplained)
Still new to the car scene. What misinformation are you talking about?
What do you mean ?
I'm curious what misinformation you mean.
+1 EE is generally okay, but sometimes he makes points that are either wrong or have no proof and aren't really explained.
Thats a harsh call - at the end of the day, both Jason and Brett are mechanical engineers by trade so they both have the knowledge. Clearly Brett is older and has refined his knowledge by working within the industry for presumably several years - Jason on the other hand only graduated a few years ago and he's still refining his knowledge.
Interesting.... I've owned a stage 2 chipped 89' Audi 200 for 15 years and is has 240,000 miles on it. it runs 19 psi, These cars have no bov/diverter valve from the factory and the stock 30 year old turbo is fine...
I'm glad Brett isn't trying too hard to be funny.
Plz reply to me mcm... Fan from Pakistan
ہیلو
+mcmtv2 The man, the myth, the legend.
i can read english lol... actually i have been educated in english from primary school... thanks for the reply though... i watch all ur videos and i myself am planning to do a KE70 project once i get into a university next year 3sge beams swap...u guys inspired me :D
Have a nice day!
Batman fan from Pakistan. Love it
Batman is actually quite popular here... We are still waiting for suicide squad, might get it in 2 weeks or september
Whats up with the random hand shots xD Moog cmon, u can do better than that
hands are sexy
Attention:
I will end this discussion once and for all, Turbos Fluttering DO NOT Cause any sort of damage to any of your cars parts, it might break hearts yes but not the car . . Here’s proof and I’ll cut it short, I own a 2001 Audi A4 1.8t for bout 2 Years, I bought a eBay ko4 turbo a year and half ago, my car has been fluttering since that day, keep in mind it’s almost 2 years that I’ve been running that cheap turbo . . And I’m pushing 28 psi on stage 2 tune, the turbo is showing no signs of failure . . Go check my IG (salah_b5) . .
Let’s end that discussion once and for all
So the "gobble" is it stalling multiple times, split second stall then build then stall then build then stall then build. in just a second or two.
Yep, it's amazing how fast some things can happen. Especially aerodynamic phenomena. There is something kind of similar with airplanes, in that when you start going too fast with a wing that isn't rigid enough, you get flutter. What this means, is that the wing will gain too much lift say aft of the spar (the rod that holds the wing in place) and it will start to go up, and twist the rear of the wing upwards. When it goes up, there is naturally a vacuum left in the space where the wing just was, as the direction of the airflow hasn't changed, so the back (trailing edge, sorry I forget to mention this earlier) gets sucked back down. And this process builds and repeats until the wing rips itself apart. And all this can happen is less than a second. Of course the speeds and angles at which this happens are calculated before the plane is even built, so there is nothing to worry about. Just thought I'd mention it.
Dose Any one from America know what a VL is?
I'm not from America, but a VL is model of Holden Commodore
just search up vl turbo on the Google's and you'll find vids and picture of the car. aussies car with rb30
I did and the start of the very first video showed old cars going gobble gobble gobble....
Seagrams makes a VO? It is kinda tasty..
we only got the VT onward
removed my bov as it was dropping all boost between gears. now I keep 6-8psi and it make tutututututu noises.. win win
Hey bro! Does it have a negative effect on your turbo?
I'm about to run 5psi and i really wanted that flutter sound!
But im a bit worried about the negative
@@jamiefinestdeangelo3260 doubt 5 psi would do anything. stock boost wouldn't do any damage I wouldn't imagine.
@@TraderG1234 thanks much bro!
@@jamiefinestdeangelo3260 I run no BOV at 30psi on my GTX2867R and have been for a few years. Zero shaft play.
@@StatusQuo209 wow that's good news bro!
I boosted a smalls 1.5 NA 5psi all for the flutter sound🤣😂
That was technical..... AND AWESOME!!!!
When closing the throttle its flutter
Compressor surge is under load I.e. acceleration.
Closed throttle flutter isnt bad. Cars had turbo's long before BOV's were a thing and they ran just fine without them and no ones turbo just blew even with the older turbo tech.
compressor surge under load is a different thing then flutter and its a bad thing. the condition that causes it needs to be remedied.
Lots of high hp cars dont use them and have no issue at all.
Solved the whole argument in less time then it took to make a video.
too bad barely anybody knows this and just talks shit about everything!!
to bad thats not the case . Diesel have no throttle body but do this also. See what happens when you beilve everything you read on the internet.
too bad you can't spell
This. This. This this this and nothing but this. I don't understand why people don't grasp this concept.
squishypitbull Hey, shit-talker, "flutter" is STILL CALLED COMPRESSOR SURGE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Theres 2 types of COMPRESSOR SURGE; on-throttle c/s... and off-throttle c/s. And yes, off-throttle c/s does significantly reduce the life of the bearings at it causes high axial-loading on the shaft.
Fucking amazing explanation of something thats so hard to grasp from just reading pure forum text !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MCM i
Here are again. 50/50 on the “will it damage the turbo”. I’ve seen guys say they built / ran / raced / esc turbos for 40+ years with no BOV’s and never had a failure. And I’ve seen guys say every turbo ram without BOV has quit….. 50/50 no mean towards one way or the other. I’ve been in a mission for 4 years now to answer the forbidden question. Does closed throttle surge damage the turbo? I’ve had a million yeses, and a million no’s. With over half of both being for a fact from real world experiences. ……..
THANK YOU! As a mechanic. i have told sooooo many people not to flutter their system, because of the same reason you explained. they seem to think that because Mark Trueno in his R32 gtr "Flutter" video does it, it's ok. thank you very much.
it's like talking to a brick wall.
This is so good. Im just getting into cars and the see silly shit is nice most of the time but a bit of useful information by someone who actually knows what they are doing is excellent.
Anyone know how to tune a MK4 GTI 1.8t AWP for a BOV. I assume all you need to do is make a tune so that when the ECU sees loss of boost it knows how much air is being released and can correct the AFR. Though I am not sure if this is possible on this car because the stock config of the MAF sensor and all. If someone knows anything on this I'd appreciate it. It would be a cool idea for a future episode of GO FAST BRETT @mcmtv2
Brett did not look impressed at all with Moog lol
Would you? He is a wiz with music and video editing.. working on cars not so much.. he is more of a zip tie and duct tape man... I am thinking all of this is to give Marty a break from Moog.. Hope Marty is not written out of the script for MCM.. on camera they are a good duo
They're best mates, I highly doubt he 'needs a break from him'. Marty won't be written out on mcm, he was probably just busy; it's not like this video needed both of them.
Sir Supaa
They have great on camera relationship. You can tell the goofy comments on camera Moog says does make Marty roll his eyes a bit. Just hope Moog dont grow MCM out of it's roots with this expansion and Discovery TV.. I am happy for them and wish the success.. This new show and guy is great.. Yes MORE please..
I love it. Call it MCM school, it's a great idea guys!!
I didn’t know you guys had a second channel. What???? I’ve been watching you for over 12years!! 😮
Compressor surge happens under boost only(turbo flutter under load) and that is what causes the crazy loads on thrust bearing especially and can damage the turbo badly. The turbo flutter by letting off the pedal is caused by reversion and nothing else, it doesn't damage the turbo, might increase thrust bearing wear dependent on what turbo it is. But ball bearings wont feel it at all.
Basically stepping to the left side outside of the compressor map graph is when compressor surge is gonna occur or the turbo is way oversized for the setup flowing more air than what the engine can handle. A BOV has nothing do with the damage, except on cars with ALS like rally and rallycross cars. Then it will cause heavy compressor surge without a BOV between gears while the throttle is shut and the ALS keeps spooling the turbo and build boost without open throttle plate causing crazy loads on everything within the turbo. End of discussion.
question. factory 2005 Legacy (Liberty) 2.5GT. engine and turbo are all factory. getting some compressor surge under acceleration at higher RPM. thoughts? solutions? thanks!
Not correct. The chatter noise is from when the air, hits the throttle butterfly and to the turbo repeatedly. You can prevent surge by fully opening the butterfly with your foot on the throttle, also by Upgrading your throttle body and cylinder head for better airflow.
Is there any bov with the fluttering sound? I mean HKS just sound swoossshh. I’m looking a BOV with the typical sound of fluttering or chirping.
This would be a good video, except that you keep cutting to Bretts hands when he's not doing anything with the turbo. If he's just talking and not pointing stuff out, you don't really need to cut to a shot of his hands.
I have a MK7.5 . I put a DTE chipset on it and then a few days later I installed k&n cold intake kit.
When I'm on half throttle and the turbo is on half boost it begins to surge. If let go of the throttle or go wide open throttle then surging ends.
I also live in Iran and the supreme fuel quality is not that great so I use octane booster everytime I refuel.
What do I do? Should I take the car for remap?
Hey,2015 benz c300, bov was installed and worked perfectly for about 2 days. Day 3 the pshhh noise that I use to get was starting to sound like its underwater or being rapidly closed momentarily during the "pshhh". Any ideas? Re-installed did the exact same thing, 3 days max
Curious about Brett's comment about the K04 on a MK6 R. Most of the modified ones I know run 26psi+ with no surge. My mk5 with a K04 runs 26Psi without surge. Only had surge when I was running stock DV
Yeah go science!
Holy fuck! That wasn't just dick jokes and tofu, I think I actually learnt something!
Wrong , wastegate chatter is NOT the same as surge, wastegate chatter in when you are giving the car gas, typically in a high gear, or out of map, and the wastegate simply lets of spurts of extra boost, sounds like “th th th th”
, surge is what he explained and it sounds more like “teuh teuh teuh”
Here in the States I had a 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege. Because of the sound, my friends put a sticker on the back window saying "Powered by Butterball." sssshhhhhh gobble gobble I put a Greddy BPV that recirculated back into the turbo intake; which was the factory setup. The gobble gobble was louder than stock after that. awwww good times.
I was told by a lot of qualified mechanic that it's a myth and does no damage your the first too state this that I have heard even mcm said its not true
I have a Blitz super sound BOV on my turbo car and between shifts it sounds like a pod of dolphins laughing most of the time, then there are times I let off the gas a different way and I get a healthy PSSSSHHHHH out of the BOV. maybe we need a how-to on properly adjusting BOVs and Wastegates MCM
Can you guys do a video on partial throttle blow off? Is it normal? How/why does it happen? Thanks
Third reason you might be hearing this sound: You bought a Skyline.
I've been standing next to the compressorside of a turbocharger on a Wärtsilä 9L46 (Big ass marine engine that produces around 14 000 hk) when it surges a couple of times. It pretty much scares the crap out of you the first time xP
I have been having this issue for years and still no fix. I have a mk5 gli and it got worse with the k04, but basically it does the sputtering flutter sound and actually stalls the car while it does this on upshifts. No diverter valve change has ever worked, I even tried adjusting wastegate by a tuen and a half and no change. Closest answer I got was from apr saying it sounds like it's bouncing off surge like but effecting performance
So ur the new engineering explained xD
he is much better.. than that guy
i think he is good, but to slam Engineering Explained is a bit harsh. Just they explain things differently.. Both very good in knowledge.
+Ryizer kovich Engineering Explained deals with numbers too.
He's got an Australian accent it's more entertaining except I believe engineering explained goes in to more detail
+Torpedomtb yea but this person is also his first time doing the video sooo yea
i will present to you car noises in text.
Subaru:RUMBLE RUMBLE RUMBLE RUMBLE WOMBOMBOMBOMBOMBOM POP POP CRACK BWWWWOOOOMMMMMMM PSSSSSSSHTTT BWOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM PSSSSHHHHT
mazda rotary:BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAAAAAAAAAPATATATATA BRAAAAAAAAAP BRAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap
honda:Voooom voooom voooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM PSHHT VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM PSH VOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
supra:RAAAAATATATATATATAA RAAAAAAAAAA SUTUTUTUTU RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA STUTUTU RAAAAAAAAAAATA
I actually get more flutter with my MK6 GTi after installing one of your GFB DV+ kits lol
Brett I am currently studying my first year of engineering, looking to move into mechanical when I get further through my degree and what you do has sort of been an inspiration for me to keep pushing forward and do something I love. Keep up the great vids!!
I feel like MCM missed the golden opportunity to name the show Blow Off Brett. Probably would of got a lot more slightly confused viewer traffic too 😂😂
should have mentioned STUTUTUTU in the title ; would've surely gotten more views.
I have a question sir... 2.5 turbo diesel mitsubishi it stays at 10 psi at full throttle till it goes past 3000 rpm then it will start boosting 15. why? of I could get maaad 15 psi choo choos at 1500 I'd be a happy yute ✌ ps you make my day when I see new episodes !
What about mid range rpm/mid range boost flutter? Not WOT just normal driving
much confusion !
isn't this flutter ? and surge when the flutter sounds happens under boost ?
From my understanding. Off throttle surge is fine but on throttle surge is the turbski killer
Doesnt some blow off valves make the clucking noise or is it purely turbo surge? I love that sound but I didnt know if was from something that isnt good.
Open throttle surge is the culprit. Closed is fine. the air actually doesn’t go back through the turbo, it goes through the intake. It’s spinning at 100k rpm.
on my 200sx ca18det iv only changed the air filter now this sound has started when I release the throttle, is my engine and or turbo been damaged and how can I fix it. thanks guys and keep up the great vids
so if i want instal K04 to AUQ engine i need to drop boost from 22-23psi to lower if i want prevent surge? and it is only for k04 what if i have garret gt25? p.s. sorry for my english
so....if I take my turbo to bits and add some gears to the shaft coming from the exhaust turbine to up the intake boost at lower revs........then I'd need a very large blow off valve to handle the excessive pressure.....??
I think it's hilarious at car meets when people are like listen to that blow off valve gobble gobble gobble gobble.... SMH... one thing you didn't mention here is having an undersized bov valve for the size of your turbo and engine displacement can also have an effect.
I'm gonna start saying "sounds mad hectic" to snuff people who brag about their terribly engineered cars.
and why is this so popular when it damages turbo? (sry if I missed something), because im looking for this and I want delete blow off and have only hks mushroom air filter for this "pigeon" sound
So what about a stock blow off valve? You know that recirculates air in the turbo. Does that also reduce the surge? I'd like tp know this coz i was thinking to get an HKS blow off valve.
Just remember that brett is selling Blow Off valves so makes sense then him trying to tell you that you need one, Im at over 100000kms with no BOV at double stock boost levels and my turbo is fine, Anecdotal I know but there is many more people out there having no issues at all without a BOV
i have a 2006 volvo s60 2.5Turbo 210 original horses, no trim or that, if i put my bov from my car i get flutter but how about my turbo how long will it lives?
someone finally explains it properly! thank you MCM
It was either my MK6 GTI or my MK6 Golf R that would occasionally get boost surge. I want to say it was in 6th gear that I would usually get surge.
So is okay that my stock 1.8t flutters when off the gas but I only run 8 psi because I bypassed the diverter valve.
My evo 8 had the bov on backwards.
Readjusted it. Sounded better as a turkey but I prefer longer turbo life.
Wastegate chatter is different: the actual wastegate actuator opening and closing the flapper on the exhaust side of the turbo; making a shuttering noise not a CHOOOCHOOooochooo noise.
i don't understand....so if these hyper tuned street cars (supras, wrx stis) who has "futututututu" sound...they have fuc?ed up turbos? :/
Flutter use to be the standard. When turbo cars first came around they all ran without BOV's. Flutter wasn't seen as something that would destroy a turbo not even to manufacturers. I believe it was the rice scene that actually gave rise to BOV's in order to enhance or change the sound of flutter to something else for scene points and it 'saving turbo's' was the marketing pitch in order to sell them to every idiot but now everyone is running them and less cars flutter and its so boring. I think the point is, physics would suggest that flutter will give a turbo more stress but in reality it's usually never enough stress to make a difference because by the the time that turbo is ready to shit itself because of some pathetic flutter, you'd have sold the car or the engine would have already died long before. Do you know how fast turbo blades spin? There's barely any setups out there that will produce enough boost to be able to even significantly oppose the spinning blades of a turbo coming off throttle. The charged air trapped between the closed throttle plate and turbo is a pathetic amount of pressure for a spinning turbo. If it really was a significant amount of pressurised air it would pop off most people's flimsy eBay boost pipes for a start which rarely happens let alone damage a fucking turbine that can whitand explosive exhaust conditions. This is just a pointless debate.
Hi what about od diesel engine?i m soffering surging...i can t beleive because the turbo it s big...should be only lag roght?can you help?
So it's the best sound a turbo can make and it doesn't hurt anything why fix it?
It breaks the turbo fans a whole lot.
did you not watch the video?
+GrahamBartle @2:46
jonnoMoto
You are totally correct I missed it the first time. My bad.
Eh, iv'e been running gobble spec for years, however i dont run more than 14psi.
Question brother what happens when you’re not running a lot of boost And you’re running like 10 to 11 psi it will be OK havin turbo flutter. Or still damage the turbo
afternoon boys, i really think if you are going to do a series with brett why not do it the right way and start of with how things work for example before this video coulda been how turbos work, how bov works then the issues that can happen with these dose goodies sent by turboyota. in my opinion these unicorn circuit videos are corny, i would much rather see marty n moog sitting down behind a bench like brett, and just have a general conversation about the automotive world. simplicity is key lads it doesnt always have to be about the looks ! (#team2sex)
Can someone answer my question? I heard that compressor surge is ok if the turbo has ball bearings, but bad if it happens on a turbo with journal bearings. Is that correct?
If it's so bad why is Marty letting his turbo flutter?
I'm sure with their connections to gfb they could get a top of the range blow off valve for the 2sexy??
I noticed he said "if you are pushing your turbo to its limits" you don't want the flutter. What if you are not working your turbo to its limit? would the same damage occur?
Annoying editing distracts me alot, this cinematography bullshit is just for show not for respect of the footage.
When i first got my gti i was making this happen not knowing i was hurting the turbo going high gear low rpm. Ive only did this about 7x i know if i keep it up ill blow the turbo. does anyone know how many more times if i did it on accident like when will it blow or is it just a timing thing. Or is 7x actually not a huge deal?
So it's actually good my MINI with a bigger turbo doesn't to this, sweet.
Man that Brett is pretty sweet! Where can I get my hands on my own Brett? Are they available outside of Australia?
and if all that seems like a load of problems, and you dislike hand work, and getting dirty, get an electric vehicle, or a mountain bike =D
i wasnt too excited for this when you guys announced it because we already have engineering explained but this was pretty interesting
My 2013 audi a4 does that, video is on my channel
I fell asleep during his presentation... I woke up and said prove it!!!
not bad at all.. give this guy some more camara time and he will call in to a more comfortable presentation style..
well my car is doing this from your gfb bov.. what could be wrong??
"Lower boost pressure" - No, I don't think I will.
Couldn't you just fit an anti surge compressor housing?
maybe go fast brett can just make his own youtube channel?
So stock evo 7 put boost psi higher it'll make statutu?
Can someone give me dummy notes ?
Oh man! This is way better than watching you guys play video games.
does air velocity affect performance of a boosted engine? both while in the compressed side and entering the turbo/supercharger? I have learned that a narrowing increases velocity but at what point does it become restrictive?
should make a video on the difference between anti surge compressor housings and normal style ones.
Excellent explanation Brett, i think this series is gonna be good. Technical info like this is gold!