Is the best machine at its price point & beyond - Very happy with my purchase - My only complaint is the time it takes to be ready, usually between 20-25min. Wish an integrated temperature reader upgrade to know when it’s ready. You can speed it up by putting PID to max temperature for 12 minutes, then back to desire.
Hi r, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on and happiness with the Pro 500! Sounds like you'd like an appliance outlet timer which could turn the machine on for you and have it ready and waiting. Marc
What about getting a super-automatic machine? Is the difference that much noticeable that its worth waiting 25 min and spening all this time to make a shot. Im in the market but cant decide on which type to buy
Beautiful machine! It is on my list of machines to compare when I'm ready to upgrade. If they made this machine in a matte/black finish it would be my dream machine. I love the PID and visible shot timer- these are features that the ECM Mechcanika VI slim heritage is missing. All the details you share in your videos are great- thank you!!
Thank you - thank you - THANK YOU! Such a concise and thorough review. I just bought a Breville, but started looking at "pro-sumer" level machines right after... this review pushed me over the line. Returning the Breville and buying one of these.
This machine is beautiful, especially with PID and the shot timer! Appreciate all the effort you put into these videos, Marc. How would this machine compare to the Lelit Mara X V2? Seems like this may have better build quality and you could potentially be more accurate with temperature control due to the Mara X "only" having the three pre-programmed temperature options (although not sure much more than that is really necessary). I have heard great things about the Mara X for making milk-based drinks, which is what I am predominately wanting an espresso machine for. Any suggestions? I am also considering one of the similar ECM machines.
My home coffee journey... Used French press with freshly roasted beans for 6 years, Then to Aeropress/V60/Clever Dripper for the past 3 years, Now I am thinking about an espresso machine (like the beautiful Profitec/ECM) but scared to take the jump because I am worried about the... 1. Learning curve 2. Will I notice the improved quality for the big price? 3. Maintenance if I accidentally break it What is driving me forward is the 5 or so times out of 100+ visits to coffee shops when the espresso tasted out of this world (like an amazing food). And if the learning curve is just too tough I am thinking to forget the manual journey and get a Jura automatic. Please advise.
Hi cs, There is a learning curve but once you get the basics down it's straightforward - all about controlling variables. In my experience and hearing from others, the espresso made at home is almost always superior to what you'll get in the majority of coffee shops. Automatic machines are very convenient but compromise potential quality compared to semi-automatic machines. With your other hands on brew method experience using freshly roasted coffee I suspect results from automatic machines may disappoint. Jura machines do have pleasing designs but they do not compare to the handmade craftsmanship of traditional machines. If you are at all handy with tools traditional machines are easy to DIY repair if needed. We have excellent self-help support and expert techs you can talk to - even schedule a CoffeeCast, a free 1 on 1 video session to check out or get support on products we offer. Schedule a CoffeeCast here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/coffeecast Support site for Profitec Pro 500: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/sections/1500000401142-Profitec-Pro-500-PID Hope that helps! Marc
For the uninformed newbie to this high level of coffee machines, what are the differences between the Pro 400 and the Pro 500 PID? Would a newbie warrant the additional features in the Pro 500 PID as they learned more and more and used the machine more and more eventually advancing out of the newbie status? Many Thanks!
Hi T, Thanks for the question. The Pro 500 has more precise control of temperature. It can be set degree by degree. The Pro 400 has a 3 position switch for selecting basic brew temperature ranges. Use the cooler setting for darker roasts and hotter for lighter roasts. For many users that level of control is enough. Both machines use heat-exchange boilers. Left on and Idle for long periods brew temps tend to creep up so the precision of the 500's control depends on using the machine at optimum time after turn on or experience to know when a flush is needed to remove over heated brew water.
Hi Mark. Which machine would you get Profitec 500, Rocket Type V or ECM Technical V Also if I can push for a dual boiler is the ECM the one to go with?
Hi SKS, Thanks for the question. If you can go to dual boiler ECM Synchronika that's as good as it gets and the only dual boiler ECM. The Profitec Pro 700 is essentially the same machine under the hood as the Synchronika with slightly less detailed external finishing so lower price. The ECM Technika V Profi is plumbable to waterline if desired and like the Synchronika and Pro 700 uses a quiet rotary pump. It's basically the HX boiler version of the Synchronika. I prefer the Profitec Pro 500 over the vibe pump Rocket machine. Hope that helps! Marc
Enjoying all your videos as I try to decide what machine I want to invest in! Do you know of any machines that have a glass resevoir but also have a steam wand?
Hi Jen, Thanks for the comment and question. Until I saw the steam wand request I was going to mention the ECM Puristika. No other glass reservoir machines I'm aware of. Have you considered a machine that's plumbable direct to waterline? Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I've thought about it, but also trying to stay under the 2k price point so continuing to research plumbable machines under 2k if that exists :)
Okay. I’ve been experimenting - with a little better results- I have a top notch scale and I weigh 18g and then weigh the shot at 36g - it’s only yielding 1.5 ounces at around 22 seconds - if I go finer the yield maybe higher but then the time may drop to 19 seconds. I’ve been told 36g out should be between 20-25. Any Profitech gurus? I’m using a medium roast and have it dial in on the display at 248 degrees per the instructions of Mark. Thoughts
Hey LE7, Assume your 1.5 oz is a liquid volume measurement? I would not consider liquid volume when using a scale. Just use the weight. Standard espresso recipe is a 1:2 ratio produced in 20-30 seconds. For you 18g ground coffee to produce 36g by weight in cup. For a vibe pump machine like yours timing should probably be closer to 30 than 20. From where you are now at 19-22 seconds you'll want to grind a hair finer to extend the timing. 248F should get you ~200F brew temp. Right where you want to be for a medium roast coffee. Keep in mind timing is a starting point and not a hard rule! I'd taste your espresso at different timings and decide what you like best. Hope that helps! Marc
Such great information on all your videos, Marc! Our Saeco automatic appliance died and I've learned so much watching dozens of your videos. Now I've worked up to the Profitec 500 as being the ideal machine for us. The only problem is that we travel in our RV and can't live without our machine. The 500 is pretty heavy to move around. Do you have a suggestion for a second machine that is lighter and inexpensive (maybe $500 range) that can get us by for a week or so while on the road? Mike
Hi Mike, Thanks for the kind comment and question. The Gaggia Classic Pro starts at a price under your budget and is a lot lighter than the Pro 500! Be aware it's a single boiler machine so you cannot brew and steam simultaneously. It's my go to recommendation for premium entry-level espresso machine. It's available in a bunch of colors and with wood trim options. Check those out here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Gaggia Hope that helps! Marc
@@MongooseReflexes They are both good machines. I prefer the look of the Pro 500 - forgetting about price I'd select the Pro 500. I like the 1/4 turn valves on the 500 over the joysticks. Also, the shot timer, and additional functions on PID display like ECO mode and back flush reminder. Marc
Hi R, Thanks for the question. The Pro 500 is an excellent machine. Manufacturers are always coming out with new and updated models. The most recent new Profitec is the Pro 400. It has easy to use but less precise temperature controls and pre-infusion control: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-400-espresso-machine-flow-control I have no information on other new Profitec machines for 2023. Marc
Just got this. Love it. I tried the flush for 10 seconds but the water did not go anywhere. Some of the video I’ve watched it shows the water pressure getting released the nossle. I didn’t like the sounds of what was happening And it was tough to undo the portafilter. Didn’t like it! What gives? UPDATE - I figured it out. 😂
Hi Bob, I hope things worked out for you. Not sure I understand "water did not go anywhere". Until the group gasket is broken in with use, portafilter may be a little stiff to remove.
Hi Mb, You're welcome and thanks for the kind comment! For coffee dose weight it depends on the coffee used but it's about 17g for the double and 8g for the single. For dimensional size they are standard 58mm. Marc
Hi LP, Thanks for the question. The Rocket Cronometro Giotto comes in 2 versions. The Type V with vibration pump and Evo R with rotary pump. The EVO R is plumbable direct to waterline and the Type V is not. I like plumbed in machines because I don't like filling reservoirs. If cost is no object, given the choice between the Evo R Giotto and the Pro 500 I'd go with the Rocket. If choosing between the Pro 500 and Type V Rocket I'd go with the Pro 500. Both are fine machines, but the Profitec gets the edge in overall build quality. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Mark Firstly, loving the beard 👍🏻. Secondaly, thank yoy for this informative review.. I've been wanting to upgrade from ym GCP for some time and I've finally decided on the Pro 500. Thank you
Great vid Buck!! We’ve been saving for the Synchronica BUT this has allot of the things we wanted! You do such a great job at sharing your knowledge with us!!! Big thanks to you snd the team ☕️❣️
Hi MSNL, The Facile and Silenzio are essentially the same 50mm flat burr grinder inside. No difference in grind quality between the 2. Silenzio has timed presets available which helps with dosing weight consistency. These grinders are sufficient but about the minimum I'd pair with a Pro 500. A step up is the Ceado E5Pro with 64mm burrs: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e5-pro-espresso-grinder Hope that helps! Marc
Hi Marc. In all honesty, your knowledge and easy to understand presentations are some of the best I have ever seen, I really enjoy watching them, great work! I would like your help in a recommendation for an espresso machine that can handle my max use, i.e. 3-4 lattes (8 ounces of milk) and a couples of double espressos + a coffee Americana or two without having to wait many minutes for reheating etc. Apart from basic functions available on most machines, I value PID and a pressure gauge (adjustable extraction pressure), which my current DeLonghi does not have. I have been looking extra at Profitec and ECM which seem like excellent quality, models like Profitec Pro 500 and 600 and ECM Classika and Technika. Based on the volume and types of drinks I produce, can you recommend a couple of models to look at (my head is spinning from informatio overload) ? Of course price is an issue or I would simply get a Synchronika or Pro 700 :)
Hey h, Thanks for the kind words! So many options. If regularly doing milk drinks I'd take the Classika out of the mix. It's a single boiler so more appropriate for someone doing mostly espresso and the random occasional milk drink. If you appreciate excellent quality in components and finishing ECM/Profitec is the way to go. Pro 500 is a good choice. It uses a heat exchange boiler so adjusting PID temperature changes both steam pressure and brew temperature. The Pro 600 is a dual boiler so you have individual control of each boiler. Brew temperatures are more stable and you have more steam pressure than on the 500 - up to 2 bar if you want it. On the 500 you'll have closer to 1 bar of steam pressure. When you take water out of the 500 for Americanos or steam lots of milk recovery will be longer than on the 600. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Excellent help, thanks Marc! It is only a USD 100 difference between the 500 and 600 where I will buy, so I guess a no brainer. Of course the ECM Technika V PID Profi is only an additional USD 150 and it is a beauty... Again, great films on RUclips, much appreciated!
Hey TJ, Yes it can. By the time you prep your next extraction the boiler recovers to full pressure. If pulling really fast back to back brew temps at the group may drop slightly. If always going in rapid succession you can turn up the boiler temps and use a short flush to compensate. Marc
Hi Marc, can you imagine this new Profitec 500 with a rotary pump option? This will be the best HX E61 on the market for sure..... I'm Profitec happy owner.
Hi FG, That would be nice! Profitec sister company ECM makes the Technika V which is a rotary pump HX boiler machine - also plumbable direct to waterline! www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-technika-v-profi-pid Marc
Hello! We’re in The Netherlands and looking for this updated version of the Pro 500. So far it’s not available and we’re wondering if you guys perhaps know wether it is coming to Europe at all or only for USA market? Thanks!
Hi Jim, Sorry I do not know. Been available here in the US for awhile now. Guessing they may need to deplete inventory of previous models? You might inquire directly to Profitec: www.profitec-espresso.com/en/contact Marc
Thank you very much! We are thinking the same thing but dont want to wait on something thats not gonna happen haha. Thank you very much! We’re waiting for them to reply! Thx again!
Did you ever find this out? It seems that the Pro 500 here in the Netherlands is still the one without the visible display, and no flow control. I haven't found any Profitec machine here yet that's the same as in this video. The Drive has flow control and the Pro 600 has a visible display but no flow control... what is happening here??
Hi LE, Not sure what the group faker is? Maybe group gasket? If so when PF clocks in to far, it leaks from around PF lip or it's visibly damaged. Shower screen if somehow damaged or just doesn't clean up well. Marc
I have the previous model PP 500 PID and it's a great machine. But I find its temperature offset between PID temperature and brew temperature to be quite variable. I can tell the difference between summer and winter room temperatures in my kitchen and need to adjust a PID a couple of degrees to compensate. If you compare the instruction manual for the previous model with video review Scace tests, you will see advice to set the PID to anywhere between 248 and 258 to get a brew temperature of 200. Does the new model do anything to keep the temperature offset more stable?
Hi Dave, Ambient temperatures def play a roll. I one time put a wet towel on an E61 group for 10 seconds then did Scace tests. The towel knocked the scace results back by 10F. The group is a big heat sink - just leaving a PF unmounted while machine is idle will bump up the temp a bit. A bunch of variables in play. Another is idle time. Temps creep up with long idle times and go down with multiple rapid fire extractions. This happens with all HX machines I've used. Nothing new on this model for extra stability. Marc
Great video review. I would get this machine if I was in the market for a semi-automatic, since the features that annoyed me about the previous version have been fixed.
Hey Ryan, Here's a side by side spec comparison of the Pro 500 and Appartamento: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDI5MTY0MTYwNjE5OCwxNTQ2MDQwNTA4NDc1 The Pro 500 has features like PID temp control, shot timer, brew pressure gauge and upgraded build quality compared to the Appartamento. Not sure where you are but be aware the version of the Pro 500 in this video with visible PID is currently only available in US/Canada from Whole Latte Love. Pro 500 from other retailers may differ in appearance. Marc
Hi Marc! Thanks for another amazing video. One question. Can the customers with the older Pro500 order/install the wooden accessories, shown in the video?
@@MongooseReflexes Wouldnt be sure about that Sep date. Really annoying that they show a working model at the factory and tell you how it works and everything, but can't give a date for the release even though they are being manufactured now. Customer service is nil from Bezerra as the manufacturers never get back with any answers.
@@Elfin4 Well I have high hopes for that release date. I personally spoke with Luca Bezzera himself at the World of Coffee in Milan last month. I also got some hands on time with the Aria PID, very polished, and he told me a September release date. So all we can do is hope. 🤞
@@MongooseReflexes Ok well that's the most up-to-date information I have read to date. Thanks for posting that, very much appreciated. Pitty Bezerra doesn't keep its potential customers updated.
Hi Zack, Thanks for the question. Personally, I'd go with the Pro 600 unless you're going to go with EVO R version of the Giotto which is plumbable direct to waterline and has a rotary pump. The Type V Giotto is not plumbable and uses a vibration pump. Other considerations: The Pro 600 is a dual boiler so can run independent temperatures in each boiler. Plus, the Pro 600 can run at higher steam pressure than the Giotto for better frothing performance. And, the Pro 600 is available with flow control (free upgrade at the moment from us) of the E61 group which expands your extraction capabilities. Check out the Pro 600 w/Flow control here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Hope that helps! Marc
Really great video, thank you Mark for the in depth review. I am a bit confused. I saw another video where you reviewed the same machine where the digital display is hidden under the drip tray, and now I see this newer released video where the digital display is above the drip tray on the front left side. Is this a newer version of the PRO 500?
Hey Justin, Yes! From Whole Latte Love machine comes with a bottomless and double spout PF: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Marc
Hi Marc - thank you for the review! updated one is enticing for an upgrade from my 6 yr old Breville express. how do you compare this to profitec pro800 v2 in terms of quality of the expresso (purely from a smoothness & flavor) - if you keep the lever and other technical differences aside. Thank you!
Hey BMV, You are welcome! Enticing indeed! Lever shots are often characterized as being sweeter and with a more syrupy body. But much depends on the coffee used and skill of the user. The basic lever extraction profile uses a higher than standard initial pressure/flow rate and as the shot progress the pressure and flow declines. This is often beneficial when using darker roast, Italian blends or similar. If the Pro 500 is equipped with flow control you can do essentially the same thing. You generally will not get initial pressure as high as you do from a lever machine but you can do the tapering flow rate. Beyond that, flow control opens up many other profiles like long low flow pre-infusions and more. If you're the specialty coffee type using very fresh, single origin, lighter roasts you're likely to get more flexibility on a flow control equipped Pro 500. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey DSA, Not sure if you're outside the US but we have them here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Marc
Hi a, thanks for the question. Depends on what "better" means to you. The Bianca is a rotary pump dual boiler plumbable machine while the Pro 500 is a vibration pump HX boiler which is not plumbable. Both are capable of making excellent espresso but there's a large price difference. Most would say the Bianca is better because it's a dual boiler and plumbable. Hope that helps! Marc
just watched your pro 400 review. the temp you set it to is the same as the group. but the 500 pid is not the same temp as in the group is that correct.
That's correct, when setting temp on the Pro 500 you're setting the actual temperature in the boiler. In machines with heat-exchange boilers the true in boiler temp is always higher than the temp of brew water delivered to the group for brewing. Some HX PID machines calculate the group temp based on an offset from the in boiler temp. Marc
Hi Whole Latte Love, I purchase Profitec Pro 500 PID (old model ) machine without the Flow Control from WLL, recently, I purchase flow control Profitec E65 Flow Control and installed on my machine. After installed, the add-on pressure gauge only reach 8 even if I open the flow control to max. Do you have any idea why?
Hi DN, That may be perfectly normal. Depends on what the machine's internal OPV is set to. With a backflush disc installed and the pump on what does the machine's pressure gauge read? We generally adjust the OPV to a 10 bar reading on the machine gauge with a backflush disc installed. Adjusted to 10 bar you will get ~9bar on the group mounted pressure gauge with a backflush disc installed. During an extraction the pressure on the group gauge will be lower as pressure is bled off through the coffee puck. How much lower depends on the restriction caused by the coffee puck. 8 bar is fine/normal during an extraction from the group gauge. Know that there's no magic to 9 bar on the coffee. And, 8 bar is probably the pressure within the group during an extraction on machines that don't have a group mounted pressure gauge. Also, a lot of research on TDS of extractions showing little difference in extractions in a range from 7-10 bar. Hope that helps! Marc
I have the old one too! But, I'm glad I had mine for the past year for great coffee all the time. You made a great choice! With that said, that viewable PID is a killer, new option tho haha. I have the tray 2mm out, so that I can see the PID in a "slit view." Try it out, it's not so bad :]]
Hey Tom, Still a great machine. I'm in that situation every time I get a new phone - next model upgrade has some stuff I wish I had... yes, such is life. Marc
I got mine less than a week ago, I called WLL and will be shipping my old model back for a full refund as long as I purchase the new version (which I already did) I hope shipping cost isn't too bad since I'll be paying for that. Bottomless pf included, always visible PID, timer when pulling a shot made it worth the work.
Hi Marc, do you guys sell the La Pavoni machines, as I'd like to see a review on the LA PAVONI BOTTICELLI EVOLUZIONE PID, as I'm getting this model next week
Hey! Im currently figuring out what machine I want to buy, but if I compare the pictures and info I would say this is the pro 600 not the pro 500. The pid of the pro 500 is covered. This one is visible. Maybe you can help me figure this out! Thanks
Hi TV, Sorry for the confusion. The Pro 500 in the video and pictures with visible PID is a custom version of the machine available only from Whole Latte Love in US/Canada. www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Marc
My machine came and it is perfect, two things, can I get the custom wooden handles after the fact? And also in order to get a 94° brew temperature in the group head I am needing to put it on the maximum PID temperature, which is 128°C. Is there something that needs adjustment?
Hey Tristan, Thanks for the report. You may be able to get custom wood options after the fact - best course is to check directly with the vendor. As for temperature, Profitec advises a boiler setting of 121C for 94C at the group as measured by Scace. How are you measuring temperature? If using standard thermometer in flow from group or into cup those will always be lower than what's happening in the portafilter during an extraction. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you! For the trails, let me to exactly that, 121 equals 94. Thank you so much, yes, I have the coffee sensor thermometer in the group, I think you were saying that it shows a lower temperature. When I flush the group had the same monitor, says 94, then during the shot it says something like 92.5, I think you’re saying I should trust the flushing temperature of 94 and assume that that is the brute temp
Terrific review video - super informative, and a great walkthrough of the machine. I have a Breville Barista and I am getting ready to upgrade and Profitec is an incredibly strong contendor. Really, I can’t seem to find anything that compares for the price. There is one thing I’m wondering, though. Why does the PID show the steam temperature? Aside Profitec/ECM (for obvious reasons) it seems everybody else’s PID or control unit is the brew temperature. To me it seems brew temperature is the far more important element based on the roast of the bean. Everything about this machine seems to be great for workflow except the temperature. It seems to me like having to keep a conversion chart near the machine would be an annoyance. Can you shed any light on the rationale, Mark, or if there is any way to show the brew temp instead of steam?
Hi IRB (I also RB !), Thanks for the kind comment on the video! Manufacturers of machines using heat-exchange boilers like the Pro 500 often display the actual temperature in the boiler rather than a calculated (using boiler offset setting on the PID controller) brew temp. Rocket Espresso and other makers take this route as well. It may be possible to adjust the PID's offset to show something closer to the brew temp at the group - but not something I've attempted. The problem is variables involved make accuracy difficult. Factors like ambient temp, idle time since last use, etc have big impacts on brew temp relative to in-boiler temps. Modern PID HX boiler machines are relatively stable in temperature so if you find a good boiler temp for say a medium roast coffee you can use consistently. If you change to a lighter roast set the boiler a 2-3F higher. If going to a darker roast a few degrees cooler. Of course, semi-auto espresso extraction is a bit of an art form and involves some trial and error. But once you get to know a machine it's fairly easy to modify temps and get predictable and repeatable results. Marc
Hi Mark, thanks for another informative video about coffee, have you noticed any difference on the vibration and rotary pump when we are using flow control? Shot quality, taste, looks etc. I really don't know if I should save up for 700 or other machines.
Hi yh, Rotary pumps, aside from being quieter have a higher potential flow rate than vibration pump. Stock E61 vibe pumps move about 8g/s while rotary pumps move about 11g/s. In most cases that difference is not a big deal when using flow control as the majority of flow profiles are reducing flow rate below stock. Here's an article with graphs comparing flow rates of vibe and rotary pumps. Also has graphs of 5 common flow profiles: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines Marc
Hey Marc! I've seen in another video that it can keep awesome consistent brew temperature without flushing between shots. However I'm wondering, before the first shot does it need to be flushed? How long or how much water? Thanks
Hi P, Thanks for the question. It does keep very consistent temps. If the machine was fully warmed up and then idle for more than 20 minutes or so I would give it a flush until water from the group runs smooth with no bubbling or excess steam. Like all HX machines temps will creep up during long idle periods. How much depends on variables like ambient temps. In normal use if pulling shots right after the machine has fully warmed up - about 25 minutes from power on I would flush for 2 seconds. Best practice to do a short flush of 2 seconds prior to every extraction to rinse and residual coffee from the shower screen. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi fm, Thanks for the question. Manufacturers hesitate to give capacities due to the fact that the type of coffee used can change them. Lighter roasts are denser so you can fit more. I've used the 500 a lot and other Profitec machines which use the same original baskets. In general, the capacity of the doubles runs 14-18g while the singles are 8-12g. Of course there are aftermarket precision baskets with higher capacities like those available here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets Marc
Hi A B, It could so long as you have the proper power. It's technically not a commercial rated machine but that's more about Profitec not seeking that designation.
Hi d, it's 15 5/8" to top of the cup rail. It will fit under 16" cabinet. Trouble is access to water reservoir if fully under overhanging cabinets. Marc
At the timestamp 8:14 one can see no display, also on the manufactors website the Pro 500 modell has no display. It seams like you are reviewing the Pro 600 Modell... or am i missing something?
Hi BJ, Not a Pro 600. The version of the Pro 500 we carry with visible PID, shot timer, etc was made specifically for us by Profitec and may not be available in other regions or from other vendors, also comes with a bottomless PF: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-walnut-accents Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi thanks for the answer, i was major confused when i talked to my vendor and he told me there is no Pro 500 with a PID display visibale. Wow okay, haveing a machine specifically made for you.. thats something i guess, ... wish this version would be wider available. anyway thanks for info and keep up the amazing work!
I know there is another version of the 500 called: "Profitec PRO 500 Quick Steam Espresso Machine" - Can you explain the difference between this one and the one you are reviewing? Thank you! :-)
Hi AG, Profitec sometimes makes slightly different versions of a machine for different world regions or vendors. The difference in the version you refer to are steam and hot water valves operated by lever instead of knobs. Compared to the version in this video the Pro 500 with levers does not have a visible PID display or shot timer. The knob operated version we carry with the visible PID and shot timer uses a 1/4 turn sprung valve. That means a spring does the work of opening/closing the valve and it's a 1/4 turn of the knob to go from fully closed to fully open. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey T, I made this video a couple of years ago and believe they are the Tiger Maple. You can see currently available custom wood options on the product page here: drive.google.com/file/d/14AG_jg2Xp7LyK8JuymLAhjMe1richnio/view?usp=drive_link
I see less crema on fully commercial beans, every beans you see at Walmart, Sproats, tried lots of them already, so I stick to expensive $20/10lbs. from my hometown SD, Bird Rock Coffee Rostery
Hi Erkal, The Pro 500 is not plumbable. The Profitec Pro 700 is plumbable: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-espresso-machine A lower cost option (in US) for a plumbable heat-exchange boiler machine is the Crem ONE HX PID: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-hx-espresso-machine Hope that helps! Marc
Is the bottomless protafilter a new addition to this version? I was under the impression they included a single and double? (Also the one in the video appears to be from a gaggia? 😅)
Thanks for the great video! How does the steam power on this compare to the Pro 600? I know it's comparing 2L HX to 1L DB but how does that translate in real world use?
Hi SC, You're welcome and thanks for the question. The Pro 600 has higher steaming power if you want it with boiler able to go to ~2 bar in pressure without any change to brew temps. Max pressure on the Pro 500 is adjustable by turning up boiler temperature but maxes out ~1.5 bar. Thing is when you set temp for max pressure you're also increasing the brew temperature in an HX boiler machine. You can bring it down using cooling flushes but takes some experience and a bit of guessing to hit specific brew temps. In the real world, higher steam pressure makes frothing faster and gets you more vigorous roll to mix milk to a more consistent density. On the other hand, some users - especially those newer to frothing milk can find the extra power is too much. Make a mistake frothing with a lot of power and you don't have much time to fix before milk is too hot. On the 600 you can set a temp/pressure in the steam boiler that fits your skill level without changing the brew temp. hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc! This makes sense. I was just concerned about how the 600's 1L steam boiler would fare in real world use making back to back milk-based drinks compared to the 500's 2L boiler but it seems Profitec has done a good job with setting appropriate boiler pressures for the job. I'm torn between these two machines and would hate to be disappointed after spending that much money, although I figure that's unlikely coming from a VBM Domobar Jnr. Thanks again 👍🏼
Hi Carl, Hear you... Don't think the manufacturers are keen on cutting into the finished outer panels. Up until a few years ago many didn't understand why an end user would even want or need to adjust pressure. Then specialty coffee took off and coffee geek types (me included) wanted easy access to brew pressure adjustment. It's becoming more common to have exposed adjustments. Many newer Profitec and ECM models do. With some dexterity and a ratcheting right angle screwdriver It is possible to adjust the brew pressure without removing the side panels by going in (somewhat blind) behind the water reservoir. Our lead prosumer tech Brian discusses that in this video: ruclips.net/video/NyRejTgHpoU/видео.html Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thx Marc! I'm still using an BE870 but will be upgrading to probably a HE machine in the future. The WLL website is awesome braking the options down and you'll be my first stop when ready to pull the trigger.
Hi Kris, Thanks for the question. Like similarly sized machines with E61 group heads it takes about 25 minutes for the machine to heat up with full temperature stability. You can use an appropriately rated appliance timer to have the machine turn on/off at set times and be ready for use. Marc
@@krismusial3189 Hi, Yes, the GO does heat up much faster. It'll be up to temp in about 4 minutes. For full temp stability I'd allow 10 minutes total with the portafilter inserted in the grouphead. You can get to temperature stable faster by running brew water through the PF (no coffee inside) after 4 minute initial warm up. Marc
Hi Andre, Thanks for the question. We have sen no issues with steam and the wood knobs. Species used handle moisture well and knobs are far enough from the business end that steam is relatively cool at knob level. Marc
Hi B, Thanks for the request - hope you are doing well in Ukraine! Might be awhile before I get to comparing the 2 in the same video ☹️. But, I do have this in-depth video featuring the Magica on its own: ruclips.net/video/IBUjAZaJY_o/видео.html Also have this side by side spec comparison of the Pro 500 and Magica: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDI5MTY0MTYwNjE5OCw2ODk5NDY0MDc3MzY2 Hope that helps! Marc
Anyone know what the ideal temperature should be for this machine? I’m pulling 18.5 grams of beans and it takes about 25 seconds to do 2 ounces - temperature on the screen on 255. Medium coffee typically. Not oily. I believe I have everything dialed in -but my shots sometimes seem bitter or sour. Thanks for any insights.
Hi LC, 255F on the PID display results in a brew temp of ~205F which is on the high side of the 195-205F espresso brewing range. High brew temps tends to produce more bitter flavors. Your brew temp may be even hotter than 205F if the machine has been on and idle for more than ~30 minutes. For medium roast coffee I suggest setting PID temp to 248F which gets you a brew temp of about 200F - appropriate for a medium roast. General guidance is higher brew temps for lighter roasts and cooler for darker roast. If machine is on and idle for long periods perform a cooling flush right before extracting espresso. Lift brew lever without PF mounted for a few seconds until your observe smooth flow of brew water. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepagethanks so much. Very helpful. And I do notice a difference when I leave it on for extended verses pulling as soon as it hits 255. It seems it takes awhile for the brew unit to catch up? The pull is better when it’s hot. 😆 meaning the pull looks nicer not necessarily taste better. 😂
Hi GS, The Pro 500 with visible PID is an exclusive we worked on with Profitec for our customers in North America. Many manufacturers have model variations for different regions. Marc
Hi there. The Pro 500 PID with PID above the drip tray is a Whole Latte Love exclusive in the USA and Canada. www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Hi, Is this machine the latest model? It looks different from options I can see here in the UK? Are there reliable vendors you may know in the UK that sell this variant? I'm interested in purchasing this one.
Hi x, Yes, This is the most recent version (2022) of the Pro 500. I'm not familiar with vendors in the UK but as this machine is fairly recent they may be working through stock of the older version prior to offering the new. Marc
@@x7SiNz-- I can’t justify the extra money for the 600. Struggling to justify the 500 actually. The 400 would probably be fine for me in all honesty. But I have the 500 in my basket and my finger is hovering over the checkout button! I only do 2 milk drinks a day generally and my wife can’t tell the difference between instant coffee or world class espresso, so it’s overkill to get a dual boiler with absolute temp stability and flow control and all the rest. I just want something that looks nice on the counter and can quickly produce great drinks. I’m happy enough with my breville barista pro really, but I have a desire for something with a quicker workflow and a more hands on approach. The 500 should fill that quite comfortably!
Hi Chris, Thanks for the kind comment and question. The Synchronika is still my favorite dual boiler - internal and external quality are a cut above anything else. I have heard nothing about a new Synchronika. Marc
Hi Mark, great detailed review. I have a Breville Barista Express and considering an upgrade. My budget is $2000. I’m torn between Rocket Apartmento, Profitec Pro 500 and Profitec pro 400. I hear great reviews about the consistency of the shots/pulls in the Apartmemto (my friend has it and raves about it). The pro 500 has PID that has its own advantages. But does the pro 500 pull consistent high quality shots like the Apartmento once dialed in? Thanks for your inputs! Nathan
Hi tvp, Thanks for the comment and question. I prefer the Pro 500 PID over the Appartamento and I've used them both since their release. Stuff the Pro 500 has the Appartamento does not: PID!, brew pressure gauge, low wear 1/4 turn sprung valves on steam and hot water, stainless steel boiler, available flow control, slightly higher price (in US). Masrc
Compairing this model and the 600 i understand you get a db. However for entertaining a small group of friends would there be a difference in making multiple milk based drinks. Also do heat uo times between the 2 compare or is one better than the other..
Hi WW, The dual boiler 600 will have more stable brew temps when making multiple drinks back to back. Also has more steam power available with the ability to change the temp of the steam producing boiler without the brew temp changing as a result. Heat up time is similar with total boiler volume of 59oz for 600 and 67oz for the 500. Hope that helps! Marc
Seems that Profitec is improving their wick points. Good job ! I would ask for a better tamper for sure. Maybe also for an IMS nanotech shower screen too, from the box (day 1) Can you connect this machine directly to water ? plumbed ?
Hi K, Thanks for the comment. Real tampers coming with more espresso machines is nice. Used to be they all came with those plastic ones which are kind of useless. Also happy this machines comes out of the box with a bottomless PF rather than the single spout very few people use. I started advocating for that switch 3-4 years ago. Machines with vibe pumps cannot be plumbed direct to waterline. Input line pressure is too high for components to handle. Marc
@@Kats072307 In most cases. A couple of exceptions are the Crem One HX PID and Crem One Duo-V. Both machines use a vibration pump and can be plumbed to waterline. Instead of applying line pressure to machine's internal plumbing they have system which fills an internal reservoir from the plumb line which then feeds the pump. Check out those machines here: Crem ONE HX PID: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-hx-espresso-machine Crem ONE DUO-V: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-duo-v Marc
Hi David, Thanks for the comment. That time is similar to other HX boiler machines which have to balance steam pressure with desired brew temp. Not sure which Bezzera machine you reference. Their dual boilers are likely faster. Their single boiler Hobby is a crazy fast steamer but there's extra time outside of actual steaming for the boiler to heat from brew to steam temp and then the extra hassle/mess of cooling a single boiler down after steaming - and of course no simultaneous brew and steam on a single boiler machine. If after fast steaming best to go with a dual boiler like Pro 600, Pro 700 or ECM Synchronika. All those run at class leading ~2 bar of pressure in the service boiler and pressure is always available. Marc
Thanks Marc...I was referencing your video review of the Magical which is the other machine I am considering. Is the Magical really that much faster on the steam?
Hi Mike, Thanks for posing the ultimate question. If familiar with the Hitchhiker's Guide the answer is 42! Kidding aside, The Profitec Pro 500 is currently at $2K and the machine I would get with that budget. There are other options which might better fit your use case. Here's a link to every machine we have in the $1600 - $2100 range: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_p_price=1439.99%3A2099.99&sort=price-descending I'd def go with a PID machine like the Pro 500 over the Rocket Appartamento. There are a couple of good Bezzera machines for less $$ in the link which also have PID. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey m, Thanks for your patience - been offline on vacation. Depends on what's important to you. The Pro 400 runs brew temperature in a couple of ranges. Cooler for darker roasts and use the middle temp setting for lighter roasts. If you're more particular the Pro 500 has more precise temp settings. With HX boilers both machines may need a flush prior to extraction depending on idle time and other variables. But, both use PID so less temp variation than machines controlling boiler heating with a pressurestat. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much! I actually ended up with the ECM Mechanika Max as advised by your amazing sales team (Amanda did a great deal of help) so I hope I didn’t do too bad hahah
Hi there. From the product page, choose Customize Your Machine under the Add To Cart button to add custom wood accents. www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Hi James, No I am not. I receive no compensation of any kind from Profitec. I review machines and products from competing manufactures as well - without compensation. Marc
Hi Nigel, Not 100% certain. Profitec and other companies don't roll out changes simultaneously to all markets. If not available in yours yet it could be coming soon. Marc
‘Accidentally’ bought one last night. For me a lot of money to spend but I’m hoping it’ll be worth it!
Is the best machine at its price point & beyond - Very happy with my purchase - My only complaint is the time it takes to be ready, usually between 20-25min. Wish an integrated temperature reader upgrade to know when it’s ready. You can speed it up by putting PID to max temperature for 12 minutes, then back to desire.
Hi r, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on and happiness with the Pro 500! Sounds like you'd like an appliance outlet timer which could turn the machine on for you and have it ready and waiting.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Oh but the need is for my afternoon cravings - which can be any given time.
@@rumar4u Keep it on for 4 hours! hahah
@@philipurquiza5184 I love good jokes, but your comment makes me cringe
What about getting a super-automatic machine? Is the difference that much noticeable that its worth waiting 25 min and spening all this time to make a shot. Im in the market but cant decide on which type to buy
Beautiful machine! It is on my list of machines to compare when I'm ready to upgrade. If they made this machine in a matte/black finish it would be my dream machine. I love the PID and visible shot timer- these are features that the ECM Mechcanika VI slim heritage is missing. All the details you share in your videos are great- thank you!!
Hey Lauren, You're welcome and thank you for the comment!
Marc
02:25 also thx to the new pump. It's a Olab silent green that is significantly less noisy than the Ulka EX5
Thank you - thank you - THANK YOU! Such a concise and thorough review. I just bought a Breville, but started looking at "pro-sumer" level machines right after... this review pushed me over the line. Returning the Breville and buying one of these.
Hi Lee, You're welcome and know you will not be sorry. The Pro 500 is a true machine and worth the investment!
This machine is beautiful, especially with PID and the shot timer! Appreciate all the effort you put into these videos, Marc. How would this machine compare to the Lelit Mara X V2? Seems like this may have better build quality and you could potentially be more accurate with temperature control due to the Mara X "only" having the three pre-programmed temperature options (although not sure much more than that is really necessary). I have heard great things about the Mara X for making milk-based drinks, which is what I am predominately wanting an espresso machine for. Any suggestions? I am also considering one of the similar ECM machines.
Is this machine generally available as the Profitec site does not mention it at all
My home coffee journey...
Used French press with freshly roasted beans for 6 years,
Then to Aeropress/V60/Clever Dripper for the past 3 years,
Now I am thinking about an espresso machine (like the beautiful Profitec/ECM) but scared to take the jump because I am worried about the...
1. Learning curve
2. Will I notice the improved quality for the big price?
3. Maintenance if I accidentally break it
What is driving me forward is the 5 or so times out of 100+ visits to coffee shops when the espresso tasted out of this world (like an amazing food).
And if the learning curve is just too tough I am thinking to forget the manual journey and get a Jura automatic.
Please advise.
Hi cs, There is a learning curve but once you get the basics down it's straightforward - all about controlling variables. In my experience and hearing from others, the espresso made at home is almost always superior to what you'll get in the majority of coffee shops. Automatic machines are very convenient but compromise potential quality compared to semi-automatic machines.
With your other hands on brew method experience using freshly roasted coffee I suspect results from automatic machines may disappoint. Jura machines do have pleasing designs but they do not compare to the handmade craftsmanship of traditional machines.
If you are at all handy with tools traditional machines are easy to DIY repair if needed. We have excellent self-help support and expert techs you can talk to - even schedule a CoffeeCast, a free 1 on 1 video session to check out or get support on products we offer.
Schedule a CoffeeCast here: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/coffeecast
Support site for Profitec Pro 500: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/sections/1500000401142-Profitec-Pro-500-PID
Hope that helps!
Marc
Those knobs/wood make it look a lot like a mini Lelit Bianca.
I hate those knobs - look like flowers. Can’t they just put some grippy, well formed knobs?
Surprised he hasn't deleted this comment yet
@@marylandflyer5670I love them.
Hiya Marc
Another great video from your good self, looks a great machine, hope you are all well.
Kind regards from Scotland 🏴
Johnny
Hey Johnny, Thanks for the comment. Doing well although the Covid did get me for a few days back in April - no fun but full recovery!
Marc
For the uninformed newbie to this high level of coffee machines, what are the differences between the Pro 400 and the Pro 500 PID? Would a newbie warrant the additional features in the Pro 500 PID as they learned more and more and used the machine more and more eventually advancing out of the newbie status? Many Thanks!
Hi T, Thanks for the question. The Pro 500 has more precise control of temperature. It can be set degree by degree. The Pro 400 has a 3 position switch for selecting basic brew temperature ranges. Use the cooler setting for darker roasts and hotter for lighter roasts. For many users that level of control is enough. Both machines use heat-exchange boilers. Left on and Idle for long periods brew temps tend to creep up so the precision of the 500's control depends on using the machine at optimum time after turn on or experience to know when a flush is needed to remove over heated brew water.
Hi Mark. Which machine would you get Profitec 500, Rocket Type V or ECM Technical V
Also if I can push for a dual boiler is the ECM the one to go with?
Hi SKS, Thanks for the question. If you can go to dual boiler ECM Synchronika that's as good as it gets and the only dual boiler ECM. The Profitec Pro 700 is essentially the same machine under the hood as the Synchronika with slightly less detailed external finishing so lower price. The ECM Technika V Profi is plumbable to waterline if desired and like the Synchronika and Pro 700 uses a quiet rotary pump. It's basically the HX boiler version of the Synchronika. I prefer the Profitec Pro 500 over the vibe pump Rocket machine.
Hope that helps!
Marc
James Hoffman spoke really highly about this machine
For good reason!
Enjoying all your videos as I try to decide what machine I want to invest in! Do you know of any machines that have a glass resevoir but also have a steam wand?
Hi Jen, Thanks for the comment and question. Until I saw the steam wand request I was going to mention the ECM Puristika. No other glass reservoir machines I'm aware of. Have you considered a machine that's plumbable direct to waterline?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I've thought about it, but also trying to stay under the 2k price point so continuing to research plumbable machines under 2k if that exists :)
Okay. I’ve been experimenting - with a little better results- I have a top notch scale and I weigh 18g and then weigh the shot at 36g - it’s only yielding 1.5 ounces at around 22 seconds - if I go finer the yield maybe higher but then the time may drop to 19 seconds. I’ve been told 36g out should be between 20-25. Any Profitech gurus? I’m using a medium roast and have it dial in on the display at 248 degrees per the instructions of Mark. Thoughts
Hey LE7, Assume your 1.5 oz is a liquid volume measurement? I would not consider liquid volume when using a scale. Just use the weight. Standard espresso recipe is a 1:2 ratio produced in 20-30 seconds. For you 18g ground coffee to produce 36g by weight in cup. For a vibe pump machine like yours timing should probably be closer to 30 than 20. From where you are now at 19-22 seconds you'll want to grind a hair finer to extend the timing. 248F should get you ~200F brew temp. Right where you want to be for a medium roast coffee. Keep in mind timing is a starting point and not a hard rule! I'd taste your espresso at different timings and decide what you like best. Hope that helps!
Marc
Such great information on all your videos, Marc! Our Saeco automatic appliance died and I've learned so much watching dozens of your videos. Now I've worked up to the Profitec 500 as being the ideal machine for us. The only problem is that we travel in our RV and can't live without our machine. The 500 is pretty heavy to move around. Do you have a suggestion for a second machine that is lighter and inexpensive (maybe $500 range) that can get us by for a week or so while on the road?
Mike
Hi Mike, Thanks for the kind comment and question. The Gaggia Classic Pro starts at a price under your budget and is a lot lighter than the Pro 500! Be aware it's a single boiler machine so you cannot brew and steam simultaneously. It's my go to recommendation for premium entry-level espresso machine. It's available in a bunch of colors and with wood trim options. Check those out here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Gaggia
Hope that helps!
Marc
Beautiful machine, and another great review! How would you compare this new Pro 500 to the Bezzera Magica PID?
Hi M, Think I responded to you elswhere. JIC here's my video review of the Magica: ruclips.net/video/IBUjAZaJY_o/видео.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks! Which one do you prefer?
@@MongooseReflexes They are both good machines. I prefer the look of the Pro 500 - forgetting about price I'd select the Pro 500. I like the 1/4 turn valves on the 500 over the joysticks. Also, the shot timer, and additional functions on PID display like ECO mode and back flush reminder.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Great, thanks!
Do you think I should wait to see if there will be a newer addition to the profetic line in 2023 before buying my coffee machine?
Hi R, Thanks for the question. The Pro 500 is an excellent machine. Manufacturers are always coming out with new and updated models. The most recent new Profitec is the Pro 400. It has easy to use but less precise temperature controls and pre-infusion control: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-400-espresso-machine-flow-control
I have no information on other new Profitec machines for 2023.
Marc
Just got this. Love it. I tried the flush for 10 seconds but the water did not go anywhere. Some of the video I’ve watched it shows the water pressure getting released the nossle. I didn’t like the sounds of what was happening And it was tough to undo the portafilter. Didn’t like it! What gives? UPDATE - I figured it out. 😂
Hi Bob, I hope things worked out for you. Not sure I understand "water did not go anywhere". Until the group gasket is broken in with use, portafilter may be a little stiff to remove.
@@Wholelattelovepage figured it out! Love love!
@@gainknowledgeandinsight Awesome!
Thanks! Love your channel! Any idea what are the single and double basket sizes for the Profitec Pro 500?
Hi Mb, You're welcome and thanks for the kind comment! For coffee dose weight it depends on the coffee used but it's about 17g for the double and 8g for the single. For dimensional size they are standard 58mm.
Marc
So many nice machines, I was going to get the rocket giotto pid, but now I’ve seen this! which do you think is the better machine? Thanks
Hi LP, Thanks for the question. The Rocket Cronometro Giotto comes in 2 versions. The Type V with vibration pump and Evo R with rotary pump. The EVO R is plumbable direct to waterline and the Type V is not. I like plumbed in machines because I don't like filling reservoirs. If cost is no object, given the choice between the Evo R Giotto and the Pro 500 I'd go with the Rocket. If choosing between the Pro 500 and Type V Rocket I'd go with the Pro 500. Both are fine machines, but the Profitec gets the edge in overall build quality. Hope that helps!
Marc
Hey Mark
Firstly, loving the beard 👍🏻. Secondaly, thank yoy for this informative review.. I've been wanting to upgrade from ym GCP for some time and I've finally decided on the Pro 500. Thank you
Hi C, You're welcome for the review - bad news beard is gone for summer! Good news, Pro 500 is fantastic machine!
Marc
Great vid Buck!! We’ve been saving for the Synchronica BUT this has allot of the things we wanted!
You do such a great job at sharing your knowledge with us!!!
Big thanks to you snd the team ☕️❣️
Hi Lise, You're welcome and thanks for the kind comment!
Marc 🦌
Great review! Would the eureka mignon facile or silenzio work as a good companion for this machine?
Hi MSNL, The Facile and Silenzio are essentially the same 50mm flat burr grinder inside. No difference in grind quality between the 2. Silenzio has timed presets available which helps with dosing weight consistency. These grinders are sufficient but about the minimum I'd pair with a Pro 500. A step up is the Ceado E5Pro with 64mm burrs: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ceado-e5-pro-espresso-grinder
Hope that helps!
Marc
Hi Marc. In all honesty, your knowledge and easy to understand presentations are some of the best I have ever seen, I really enjoy watching them, great work!
I would like your help in a recommendation for an espresso machine that can handle my max use, i.e. 3-4 lattes (8 ounces of milk) and a couples of double espressos + a coffee Americana or two without having to wait many minutes for reheating etc. Apart from basic functions available on most machines, I value PID and a pressure gauge (adjustable extraction pressure), which my current DeLonghi does not have.
I have been looking extra at Profitec and ECM which seem like excellent quality, models like Profitec Pro 500 and 600 and ECM Classika and Technika. Based on the volume and types of drinks I produce, can you recommend a couple of models to look at (my head is spinning from informatio overload) ? Of course price is an issue or I would simply get a Synchronika or Pro 700 :)
Hey h, Thanks for the kind words! So many options. If regularly doing milk drinks I'd take the Classika out of the mix. It's a single boiler so more appropriate for someone doing mostly espresso and the random occasional milk drink. If you appreciate excellent quality in components and finishing ECM/Profitec is the way to go. Pro 500 is a good choice. It uses a heat exchange boiler so adjusting PID temperature changes both steam pressure and brew temperature. The Pro 600 is a dual boiler so you have individual control of each boiler. Brew temperatures are more stable and you have more steam pressure than on the 500 - up to 2 bar if you want it. On the 500 you'll have closer to 1 bar of steam pressure. When you take water out of the 500 for Americanos or steam lots of milk recovery will be longer than on the 600.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Excellent help, thanks Marc! It is only a USD 100 difference between the 500 and 600 where I will buy, so I guess a no brainer. Of course the ECM Technika V PID Profi is only an additional USD 150 and it is a beauty... Again, great films on RUclips, much appreciated!
Hey mark, always love your videos. So informative! I’m just wondering if the Pro 500 would be able to make 4/5 cappuccinos back to back?
Hey TJ, Yes it can. By the time you prep your next extraction the boiler recovers to full pressure. If pulling really fast back to back brew temps at the group may drop slightly. If always going in rapid succession you can turn up the boiler temps and use a short flush to compensate.
Marc
Hi Marc, can you imagine this new Profitec 500 with a rotary pump option? This will be the best HX E61 on the market for sure..... I'm Profitec happy owner.
Hi FG, That would be nice! Profitec sister company ECM makes the Technika V which is a rotary pump HX boiler machine - also plumbable direct to waterline! www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-technika-v-profi-pid
Marc
Hello! We’re in The Netherlands and looking for this updated version of the Pro 500. So far it’s not available and we’re wondering if you guys perhaps know wether it is coming to Europe at all or only for USA market? Thanks!
Hi Jim, Sorry I do not know. Been available here in the US for awhile now. Guessing they may need to deplete inventory of previous models? You might inquire directly to Profitec: www.profitec-espresso.com/en/contact
Marc
Thank you very much! We are thinking the same thing but dont want to wait on something thats not gonna happen haha. Thank you very much! We’re waiting for them to reply! Thx again!
@@JimStoks03 hey Jim, did Profitec answer to you? Did you find any Profitec Pro 500 PID in Europe?
Did you ever find this out? It seems that the Pro 500 here in the Netherlands is still the one without the visible display, and no flow control. I haven't found any Profitec machine here yet that's the same as in this video. The Drive has flow control and the Pro 600 has a visible display but no flow control... what is happening here??
Hey hey! Hope all is well, Mark. How often should I replace the group faker and shower screen? I’ve had the machine for about a year now. Thanks
Hi LE, Not sure what the group faker is? Maybe group gasket? If so when PF clocks in to far, it leaks from around PF lip or it's visibly damaged. Shower screen if somehow damaged or just doesn't clean up well.
Marc
I have the previous model PP 500 PID and it's a great machine. But I find its temperature offset between PID temperature and brew temperature to be quite variable. I can tell the difference between summer and winter room temperatures in my kitchen and need to adjust a PID a couple of degrees to compensate. If you compare the instruction manual for the previous model with video review Scace tests, you will see advice to set the PID to anywhere between 248 and 258 to get a brew temperature of 200. Does the new model do anything to keep the temperature offset more stable?
Hi Dave, Ambient temperatures def play a roll. I one time put a wet towel on an E61 group for 10 seconds then did Scace tests. The towel knocked the scace results back by 10F. The group is a big heat sink - just leaving a PF unmounted while machine is idle will bump up the temp a bit. A bunch of variables in play. Another is idle time. Temps creep up with long idle times and go down with multiple rapid fire extractions. This happens with all HX machines I've used. Nothing new on this model for extra stability.
Marc
Great video review. I would get this machine if I was in the market for a semi-automatic, since the features that annoyed me about the previous version have been fixed.
Hi Tom, Thanks for the comment and sharing your thoughts!
Marc
Trying to decide between this machine or the Rocket Appartamento. Any advise?
Hey Ryan, Here's a side by side spec comparison of the Pro 500 and Appartamento: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDI5MTY0MTYwNjE5OCwxNTQ2MDQwNTA4NDc1
The Pro 500 has features like PID temp control, shot timer, brew pressure gauge and upgraded build quality compared to the Appartamento. Not sure where you are but be aware the version of the Pro 500 in this video with visible PID is currently only available in US/Canada from Whole Latte Love. Pro 500 from other retailers may differ in appearance.
Marc
Hi Marc! Thanks for another amazing video. One question. Can the customers with the older Pro500 order/install the wooden accessories, shown in the video?
Hi Josh, Reach out to our sales team here for information on availability of wood accessories: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Marc
But when is the Bezerra Aria PID to be available to purchase.
I believe it's going to be released in September.
@@MongooseReflexes Wouldnt be sure about that Sep date. Really annoying that they show a working model at the factory and tell you how it works and everything, but can't give a date for the release even though they are being manufactured now. Customer service is nil from Bezerra as the manufacturers never get back with any answers.
@@Elfin4 Well I have high hopes for that release date. I personally spoke with Luca Bezzera himself at the World of Coffee in Milan last month. I also got some hands on time with the Aria PID, very polished, and he told me a September release date. So all we can do is hope. 🤞
@@MongooseReflexes Ok well that's the most up-to-date information I have read to date. Thanks for posting that, very much appreciated. Pitty Bezerra doesn't keep its potential customers updated.
@@Elfin4 Absolutely, glad I could help shed some light. I really hope it's true, it's a beautiful machine.
Is there a way to check the water level without opening the lid?
Hi k, No but the machine will not operate and notify of low water in resrevoir.
Do you think it would be more wise to purchase a Profitec pro 600 over the rocket Giotto cronometro?
Hi Zack, Thanks for the question. Personally, I'd go with the Pro 600 unless you're going to go with EVO R version of the Giotto which is plumbable direct to waterline and has a rotary pump. The Type V Giotto is not plumbable and uses a vibration pump. Other considerations: The Pro 600 is a dual boiler so can run independent temperatures in each boiler. Plus, the Pro 600 can run at higher steam pressure than the Giotto for better frothing performance. And, the Pro 600 is available with flow control (free upgrade at the moment from us) of the E61 group which expands your extraction capabilities. Check out the Pro 600 w/Flow control here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Hope that helps!
Marc
Really great video, thank you Mark for the in depth review. I am a bit confused. I saw another video where you reviewed the same machine where the digital display is hidden under the drip tray, and now I see this newer released video where the digital display is above the drip tray on the front left side. Is this a newer version of the PRO 500?
Hi ML, Yes this is a newer version of the machine mid-2022.
Marc
Where can I find that wood flow control knob? Thank you!
Hi Marc, is this machine only available in CAN/US? In the Netherlands I can only find the 500 with the PID in the drip tray or the 600 😢
Hi B, yes, it's a version of the Pro 500 made by Profitec specifically for us.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you for your answer. Not the answer I’ve hoped for, but much appreciated nonetheless.
Is the bottomless and Double Spout Portafilter still included?
Hey Justin, Yes! From Whole Latte Love machine comes with a bottomless and double spout PF: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Marc
Hi Marc - thank you for the review! updated one is enticing for an upgrade from my 6 yr old Breville express. how do you compare this to profitec pro800 v2 in terms of quality of the expresso (purely from a smoothness & flavor) - if you keep the lever and other technical differences aside. Thank you!
Hey BMV, You are welcome! Enticing indeed! Lever shots are often characterized as being sweeter and with a more syrupy body. But much depends on the coffee used and skill of the user. The basic lever extraction profile uses a higher than standard initial pressure/flow rate and as the shot progress the pressure and flow declines. This is often beneficial when using darker roast, Italian blends or similar. If the Pro 500 is equipped with flow control you can do essentially the same thing. You generally will not get initial pressure as high as you do from a lever machine but you can do the tapering flow rate. Beyond that, flow control opens up many other profiles like long low flow pre-infusions and more. If you're the specialty coffee type using very fresh, single origin, lighter roasts you're likely to get more flexibility on a flow control equipped Pro 500.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Thanks for the indepth-video. When is this due out? Can't see it listed on their site.
Hey DSA, Not sure if you're outside the US but we have them here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That makes sense. I'm in the UK.
Pro 500 vs bianca..which one better?
Hi a, thanks for the question. Depends on what "better" means to you. The Bianca is a rotary pump dual boiler plumbable machine while the Pro 500 is a vibration pump HX boiler which is not plumbable. Both are capable of making excellent espresso but there's a large price difference. Most would say the Bianca is better because it's a dual boiler and plumbable. Hope that helps!
Marc
just watched your pro 400 review. the temp you set it to is the same as the group. but the 500 pid is not the same temp as in the group is that correct.
That's correct, when setting temp on the Pro 500 you're setting the actual temperature in the boiler. In machines with heat-exchange boilers the true in boiler temp is always higher than the temp of brew water delivered to the group for brewing. Some HX PID machines calculate the group temp based on an offset from the in boiler temp.
Marc
Hi Whole Latte Love,
I purchase Profitec Pro 500 PID (old model ) machine without the Flow Control from WLL, recently, I purchase flow control Profitec E65 Flow Control and installed on my machine. After installed, the add-on pressure gauge only reach 8 even if I open the flow control to max. Do you have any idea why?
Hi DN, That may be perfectly normal. Depends on what the machine's internal OPV is set to. With a backflush disc installed and the pump on what does the machine's pressure gauge read? We generally adjust the OPV to a 10 bar reading on the machine gauge with a backflush disc installed. Adjusted to 10 bar you will get ~9bar on the group mounted pressure gauge with a backflush disc installed. During an extraction the pressure on the group gauge will be lower as pressure is bled off through the coffee puck. How much lower depends on the restriction caused by the coffee puck. 8 bar is fine/normal during an extraction from the group gauge. Know that there's no magic to 9 bar on the coffee. And, 8 bar is probably the pressure within the group during an extraction on machines that don't have a group mounted pressure gauge. Also, a lot of research on TDS of extractions showing little difference in extractions in a range from 7-10 bar.
Hope that helps!
Marc
No way, got my Pro 500 about a month ago!! A few things I wish my machine had that the new version does. Bugger! Oh well, such is life 🤣
I have the old one too! But, I'm glad I had mine for the past year for great coffee all the time. You made a great choice! With that said, that viewable PID is a killer, new option tho haha. I have the tray 2mm out, so that I can see the PID in a "slit view." Try it out, it's not so bad :]]
Hey Tom, Still a great machine. I'm in that situation every time I get a new phone - next model upgrade has some stuff I wish I had... yes, such is life.
Marc
Hey Josh, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Pro 500 and the tip!
Marc
I got mine less than a week ago, I called WLL and will be shipping my old model back for a full refund as long as I purchase the new version (which I already did) I hope shipping cost isn't too bad since I'll be paying for that. Bottomless pf included, always visible PID, timer when pulling a shot made it worth the work.
Hey Marc, could I use this to cater small event? Maybe for 50 drinks in 2 hours?
Hi DGS, It's possible but I'd strongly suggest going with a dual boiler to eliminate effect of high volume use on boiler temps.
Marc
Hi Marc, do you guys sell the La Pavoni machines, as I'd like to see a review on the LA PAVONI BOTTICELLI EVOLUZIONE PID, as I'm getting this model next week
Hey KHCR, We've had some of their manual machines in the past but nothing at the moment - sorry!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage ok thanks Marc, have a safe weekend
On the pro 500 what position do you put the flow control knob at for standard full flow the same as if the machine did not have flow control?
Hi Jessica, for standard flow rate open the flow control 1.25 turns from the fully closed position.
Marc
Hey! Im currently figuring out what machine I want to buy, but if I compare the pictures and info I would say this is the pro 600 not the pro 500. The pid of the pro 500 is covered. This one is visible.
Maybe you can help me figure this out!
Thanks
Hi TV, Sorry for the confusion. The Pro 500 in the video and pictures with visible PID is a custom version of the machine available only from Whole Latte Love in US/Canada. www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Marc
My machine came and it is perfect, two things, can I get the custom wooden handles after the fact? And also in order to get a 94° brew temperature in the group head I am needing to put it on the maximum PID temperature, which is 128°C. Is there something that needs adjustment?
Hey Tristan, Thanks for the report. You may be able to get custom wood options after the fact - best course is to check directly with the vendor. As for temperature, Profitec advises a boiler setting of 121C for 94C at the group as measured by Scace. How are you measuring temperature? If using standard thermometer in flow from group or into cup those will always be lower than what's happening in the portafilter during an extraction.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you! For the trails, let me to exactly that, 121 equals 94. Thank you so much, yes, I have the coffee sensor thermometer in the group, I think you were saying that it shows a lower temperature. When I flush the group had the same monitor, says 94, then during the shot it says something like 92.5, I think you’re saying I should trust the flushing temperature of 94 and assume that that is the brute temp
Terrific review video - super informative, and a great walkthrough of the machine. I have a Breville Barista and I am getting ready to upgrade and Profitec is an incredibly strong contendor. Really, I can’t seem to find anything that compares for the price. There is one thing I’m wondering, though. Why does the PID show the steam temperature? Aside Profitec/ECM (for obvious reasons) it seems everybody else’s PID or control unit is the brew temperature. To me it seems brew temperature is the far more important element based on the roast of the bean. Everything about this machine seems to be great for workflow except the temperature. It seems to me like having to keep a conversion chart near the machine would be an annoyance. Can you shed any light on the rationale, Mark, or if there is any way to show the brew temp instead of steam?
Hi IRB (I also RB !), Thanks for the kind comment on the video! Manufacturers of machines using heat-exchange boilers like the Pro 500 often display the actual temperature in the boiler rather than a calculated (using boiler offset setting on the PID controller) brew temp. Rocket Espresso and other makers take this route as well. It may be possible to adjust the PID's offset to show something closer to the brew temp at the group - but not something I've attempted. The problem is variables involved make accuracy difficult. Factors like ambient temp, idle time since last use, etc have big impacts on brew temp relative to in-boiler temps. Modern PID HX boiler machines are relatively stable in temperature so if you find a good boiler temp for say a medium roast coffee you can use consistently. If you change to a lighter roast set the boiler a 2-3F higher. If going to a darker roast a few degrees cooler. Of course, semi-auto espresso extraction is a bit of an art form and involves some trial and error. But once you get to know a machine it's fairly easy to modify temps and get predictable and repeatable results.
Marc
Hi Mark, thanks for another informative video about coffee, have you noticed any difference on the vibration and rotary pump when we are using flow control? Shot quality, taste, looks etc. I really don't know if I should save up for 700 or other machines.
Hi yh, Rotary pumps, aside from being quieter have a higher potential flow rate than vibration pump. Stock E61 vibe pumps move about 8g/s while rotary pumps move about 11g/s. In most cases that difference is not a big deal when using flow control as the majority of flow profiles are reducing flow rate below stock. Here's an article with graphs comparing flow rates of vibe and rotary pumps. Also has graphs of 5 common flow profiles: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That's exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks again!
Is there a bottomless Portafilter you recommend for this?
Hi m, This is my favorite: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-angled-bottomless-portafilter
Fits any E61 group.
Hey Marc! I've seen in another video that it can keep awesome consistent brew temperature without flushing between shots. However I'm wondering, before the first shot does it need to be flushed? How long or how much water? Thanks
Hi P, Thanks for the question. It does keep very consistent temps. If the machine was fully warmed up and then idle for more than 20 minutes or so I would give it a flush until water from the group runs smooth with no bubbling or excess steam. Like all HX machines temps will creep up during long idle periods. How much depends on variables like ambient temps. In normal use if pulling shots right after the machine has fully warmed up - about 25 minutes from power on I would flush for 2 seconds. Best practice to do a short flush of 2 seconds prior to every extraction to rinse and residual coffee from the shower screen.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Why is there no documentation anywhere what max gram size on each included baskets??
Hi fm, Thanks for the question. Manufacturers hesitate to give capacities due to the fact that the type of coffee used can change them. Lighter roasts are denser so you can fit more. I've used the 500 a lot and other Profitec machines which use the same original baskets. In general, the capacity of the doubles runs 14-18g while the singles are 8-12g. Of course there are aftermarket precision baskets with higher capacities like those available here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets
Marc
Can this machine work in a food trailer? I want to add espressos. Not too much traffic, town is only about 10k people.
Hi A B, It could so long as you have the proper power. It's technically not a commercial rated machine but that's more about Profitec not seeking that designation.
I have 16 inches of counter height limitation. Is height measured at the rails or chassis top?
Hi d, it's 15 5/8" to top of the cup rail. It will fit under 16" cabinet. Trouble is access to water reservoir if fully under overhanging cabinets.
Marc
At the timestamp 8:14 one can see no display, also on the manufactors website the Pro 500 modell has no display. It seams like you are reviewing the Pro 600 Modell... or am i missing something?
Hi BJ, Not a Pro 600. The version of the Pro 500 we carry with visible PID, shot timer, etc was made specifically for us by Profitec and may not be available in other regions or from other vendors, also comes with a bottomless PF: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-walnut-accents
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi thanks for the answer, i was major confused when i talked to my vendor and he told me there is no Pro 500 with a PID display visibale.
Wow okay, haveing a machine specifically made for you.. thats something i guess, ... wish this version would be wider available.
anyway thanks for info and keep up the amazing work!
I know there is another version of the 500 called: "Profitec PRO 500 Quick Steam Espresso Machine" - Can you explain the difference between this one and the one you are reviewing? Thank you! :-)
Hi AG, Profitec sometimes makes slightly different versions of a machine for different world regions or vendors. The difference in the version you refer to are steam and hot water valves operated by lever instead of knobs. Compared to the version in this video the Pro 500 with levers does not have a visible PID display or shot timer. The knob operated version we carry with the visible PID and shot timer uses a 1/4 turn sprung valve. That means a spring does the work of opening/closing the valve and it's a 1/4 turn of the knob to go from fully closed to fully open. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Sure thing Marc. Thanks to your reply. Your clips helped a lot to narrow down to ECM or the Profitec 500.
@@ayalgersh2005 My pleasure!
What type of knob control wood is in the video?
Hey T, I made this video a couple of years ago and believe they are the Tiger Maple. You can see currently available custom wood options on the product page here: drive.google.com/file/d/14AG_jg2Xp7LyK8JuymLAhjMe1richnio/view?usp=drive_link
Why the crema looks not thick? My Lelit crema is thick and looks viscous
Hi u, Different coffees produce different levels of crema.
I see less crema on fully commercial beans, every beans you see at Walmart, Sproats, tried lots of them already, so I stick to expensive $20/10lbs. from my hometown SD, Bird Rock Coffee Rostery
Does it have option for plumbing tank and tray?
Hi Erkal, The Pro 500 is not plumbable. The Profitec Pro 700 is plumbable: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
A lower cost option (in US) for a plumbable heat-exchange boiler machine is the Crem ONE HX PID: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-hx-espresso-machine
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you for the tip, and the great videos!
Is the bottomless protafilter a new addition to this version? I was under the impression they included a single and double? (Also the one in the video appears to be from a gaggia? 😅)
From us, the machine ships with a bottomless and double spout portafilter. It's not a Gaggia PF with machine.
Of course it's not a gaggia fit machine, but the portafilter in your video is @@Wholelattelovepage
Thanks for the great video! How does the steam power on this compare to the Pro 600? I know it's comparing 2L HX to 1L DB but how does that translate in real world use?
Hi SC, You're welcome and thanks for the question. The Pro 600 has higher steaming power if you want it with boiler able to go to ~2 bar in pressure without any change to brew temps. Max pressure on the Pro 500 is adjustable by turning up boiler temperature but maxes out ~1.5 bar. Thing is when you set temp for max pressure you're also increasing the brew temperature in an HX boiler machine. You can bring it down using cooling flushes but takes some experience and a bit of guessing to hit specific brew temps. In the real world, higher steam pressure makes frothing faster and gets you more vigorous roll to mix milk to a more consistent density. On the other hand, some users - especially those newer to frothing milk can find the extra power is too much. Make a mistake frothing with a lot of power and you don't have much time to fix before milk is too hot. On the 600 you can set a temp/pressure in the steam boiler that fits your skill level without changing the brew temp. hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc! This makes sense. I was just concerned about how the 600's 1L steam boiler would fare in real world use making back to back milk-based drinks compared to the 500's 2L boiler but it seems Profitec has done a good job with setting appropriate boiler pressures for the job. I'm torn between these two machines and would hate to be disappointed after spending that much money, although I figure that's unlikely coming from a VBM Domobar Jnr. Thanks again 👍🏼
Was there no thought to making the pressure adjustment easier to access? A simple removable plate would have eliminated dismantling the side covers.
Hi Carl, Hear you... Don't think the manufacturers are keen on cutting into the finished outer panels. Up until a few years ago many didn't understand why an end user would even want or need to adjust pressure. Then specialty coffee took off and coffee geek types (me included) wanted easy access to brew pressure adjustment. It's becoming more common to have exposed adjustments. Many newer Profitec and ECM models do.
With some dexterity and a ratcheting right angle screwdriver It is possible to adjust the brew pressure without removing the side panels by going in (somewhat blind) behind the water reservoir. Our lead prosumer tech Brian discusses that in this video: ruclips.net/video/NyRejTgHpoU/видео.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thx Marc! I'm still using an BE870 but will be upgrading to probably a HE machine in the future. The WLL website is awesome braking the options down and you'll be my first stop when ready to pull the trigger.
how do i get those wonderful wood accents when i already own it?!
Hi FF, Reach out to our sales team here for information on availability of wood accessories: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Marc
How long does it take for this machine to heat up before use?
Hi Kris, Thanks for the question. Like similarly sized machines with E61 group heads it takes about 25 minutes for the machine to heat up with full temperature stability. You can use an appropriately rated appliance timer to have the machine turn on/off at set times and be ready for use.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Mark - that is very helpful. What about profitec go, does it heat up much quicker?
@@krismusial3189 Hi, Yes, the GO does heat up much faster. It'll be up to temp in about 4 minutes. For full temp stability I'd allow 10 minutes total with the portafilter inserted in the grouphead. You can get to temperature stable faster by running brew water through the PF (no coffee inside) after 4 minute initial warm up.
Marc
Are the stock portafilter 18 or 20 g baskets?!
Hey B, they are rated about 18g - depends on the coffee.
Marc
@Whole Latte Love Holy guacamole the goat himself?! 🐐, I just got my profitec pro 500 pid from you guys and so far love it!
How does the wood knobs fair against steam?
Hi Andre, Thanks for the question. We have sen no issues with steam and the wood knobs. Species used handle moisture well and knobs are far enough from the business end that steam is relatively cool at knob level.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc for clarifying!
Hi there. Is there any chance you do a comparison between Pro 500 and Bezzera Magica?
Greetings from Ukraine!
Hi B, Thanks for the request - hope you are doing well in Ukraine! Might be awhile before I get to comparing the 2 in the same video ☹️. But, I do have this in-depth video featuring the Magica on its own: ruclips.net/video/IBUjAZaJY_o/видео.html
Also have this side by side spec comparison of the Pro 500 and Magica: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDI5MTY0MTYwNjE5OCw2ODk5NDY0MDc3MzY2
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Oh, that's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
Hopefully, we'll stay safe here.
Anyone know what the ideal temperature should be for this machine? I’m pulling 18.5 grams of beans and it takes about 25 seconds to do 2 ounces - temperature on the screen on 255. Medium coffee typically. Not oily. I believe I have everything dialed in -but my shots sometimes seem bitter or sour. Thanks for any insights.
Hi LC, 255F on the PID display results in a brew temp of ~205F which is on the high side of the 195-205F espresso brewing range. High brew temps tends to produce more bitter flavors. Your brew temp may be even hotter than 205F if the machine has been on and idle for more than ~30 minutes. For medium roast coffee I suggest setting PID temp to 248F which gets you a brew temp of about 200F - appropriate for a medium roast. General guidance is higher brew temps for lighter roasts and cooler for darker roast. If machine is on and idle for long periods perform a cooling flush right before extracting espresso. Lift brew lever without PF mounted for a few seconds until your observe smooth flow of brew water. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepagethanks so much. Very helpful. And I do notice a difference when I leave it on for extended verses pulling as soon as it hits 255. It seems it takes awhile for the brew unit to catch up? The pull is better when it’s hot. 😆 meaning the pull looks nicer not necessarily taste better. 😂
@@gainknowledgeandinsight You're welcome!
Marc
I am from europe and the machine in the review isn't even for sale here. Can that be wright?
Hi GS, The Pro 500 with visible PID is an exclusive we worked on with Profitec for our customers in North America. Many manufacturers have model variations for different regions.
Marc
Why can't I find a pro500 PID with it on the front? All I seem to find are versions with PID in the drip tray
Hi there.
The Pro 500 PID with PID above the drip tray is a Whole Latte Love exclusive in the USA and Canada.
www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Thanks for confirming, that's a shame would have loved one in the UK!
Hi, Is this machine the latest model? It looks different from options I can see here in the UK? Are there reliable vendors you may know in the UK that sell this variant? I'm interested in purchasing this one.
Hi x, Yes, This is the most recent version (2022) of the Pro 500. I'm not familiar with vendors in the UK but as this machine is fairly recent they may be working through stock of the older version prior to offering the new.
Marc
Bella barista are getting stock of this version on Monday
@Tom Photoix I ordered the Pro 600, very happy with my purchase from Bella.
@@x7SiNz-- I can’t justify the extra money for the 600. Struggling to justify the 500 actually. The 400 would probably be fine for me in all honesty. But I have the 500 in my basket and my finger is hovering over the checkout button! I only do 2 milk drinks a day generally and my wife can’t tell the difference between instant coffee or world class espresso, so it’s overkill to get a dual boiler with absolute temp stability and flow control and all the rest. I just want something that looks nice on the counter and can quickly produce great drinks. I’m happy enough with my breville barista pro really, but I have a desire for something with a quicker workflow and a more hands on approach. The 500 should fill that quite comfortably!
Hey Mark - love your videos. Quick question…when is the new ECM Synchronika coming out? Is that still the one you’d pick if money was no object?
Hi Chris, Thanks for the kind comment and question. The Synchronika is still my favorite dual boiler - internal and external quality are a cut above anything else. I have heard nothing about a new Synchronika.
Marc
Hi Mark, great detailed review. I have a Breville Barista Express and considering an upgrade. My budget is $2000. I’m torn between Rocket Apartmento, Profitec Pro 500 and Profitec pro 400. I hear great reviews about the consistency of the shots/pulls in the Apartmemto (my friend has it and raves about it). The pro 500 has PID that has its own advantages. But does the pro 500 pull consistent high quality shots like the Apartmento once dialed in? Thanks for your inputs!
Nathan
Hi tvp, Thanks for the comment and question. I prefer the Pro 500 PID over the Appartamento and I've used them both since their release. Stuff the Pro 500 has the Appartamento does not: PID!, brew pressure gauge, low wear 1/4 turn sprung valves on steam and hot water, stainless steel boiler, available flow control, slightly higher price (in US).
Masrc
Thank you very much! 🙏
Which machine did you go with? I am leaning more toward the 400, I like the looks and smaller foot print.
@@08shiver750they both look fantastic right?
Compairing this model and the 600 i understand you get a db. However for entertaining a small group of friends would there be a difference in making multiple milk based drinks. Also do heat uo times between the 2 compare or is one better than the other..
Hi WW, The dual boiler 600 will have more stable brew temps when making multiple drinks back to back. Also has more steam power available with the ability to change the temp of the steam producing boiler without the brew temp changing as a result. Heat up time is similar with total boiler volume of 59oz for 600 and 67oz for the 500. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank for getting back.
Seems that Profitec is improving their wick points. Good job !
I would ask for a better tamper for sure.
Maybe also for an IMS nanotech shower screen too, from the box (day 1)
Can you connect this machine directly to water ? plumbed ?
Hi K, Thanks for the comment. Real tampers coming with more espresso machines is nice. Used to be they all came with those plastic ones which are kind of useless. Also happy this machines comes out of the box with a bottomless PF rather than the single spout very few people use. I started advocating for that switch 3-4 years ago. Machines with vibe pumps cannot be plumbed direct to waterline. Input line pressure is too high for components to handle.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage understood. So only Rotary pumps can be plumbed in
@@Kats072307 In most cases. A couple of exceptions are the Crem One HX PID and Crem One Duo-V. Both machines use a vibration pump and can be plumbed to waterline. Instead of applying line pressure to machine's internal plumbing they have system which fills an internal reservoir from the plumb line which then feeds the pump. Check out those machines here:
Crem ONE HX PID: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-hx-espresso-machine
Crem ONE DUO-V: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-duo-v
Marc
Steam time of 27 sec seems VERY long for a machine of this class. Your same method times Bezzera units at 16-17. Why so slow here?
Hi David, Thanks for the comment. That time is similar to other HX boiler machines which have to balance steam pressure with desired brew temp. Not sure which Bezzera machine you reference. Their dual boilers are likely faster. Their single boiler Hobby is a crazy fast steamer but there's extra time outside of actual steaming for the boiler to heat from brew to steam temp and then the extra hassle/mess of cooling a single boiler down after steaming - and of course no simultaneous brew and steam on a single boiler machine. If after fast steaming best to go with a dual boiler like Pro 600, Pro 700 or ECM Synchronika. All those run at class leading ~2 bar of pressure in the service boiler and pressure is always available.
Marc
Thanks Marc...I was referencing your video review of the Magical which is the other machine I am considering. Is the Magical really that much faster on the steam?
I your budget is $2K, which machine would you buy? That’s the ultimate question.
Hi Mike, Thanks for posing the ultimate question. If familiar with the Hitchhiker's Guide the answer is 42! Kidding aside, The Profitec Pro 500 is currently at $2K and the machine I would get with that budget. There are other options which might better fit your use case. Here's a link to every machine we have in the $1600 - $2100 range: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_p_price=1439.99%3A2099.99&sort=price-descending
I'd def go with a PID machine like the Pro 500 over the Rocket Appartamento. There are a couple of good Bezzera machines for less $$ in the link which also have PID. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage literally just made me a lifetime customer. I will be buying here in about 3 months. Thanks for the guidance my friend.
In 2024.. this or the Pro 400? @marc
Hey m, Thanks for your patience - been offline on vacation. Depends on what's important to you. The Pro 400 runs brew temperature in a couple of ranges. Cooler for darker roasts and use the middle temp setting for lighter roasts. If you're more particular the Pro 500 has more precise temp settings. With HX boilers both machines may need a flush prior to extraction depending on idle time and other variables. But, both use PID so less temp variation than machines controlling boiler heating with a pressurestat.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much! I actually ended up with the ECM Mechanika Max as advised by your amazing sales team (Amanda did a great deal of help) so I hope I didn’t do too bad hahah
Where can I find the wood accent kit ?
Hi there.
From the product page, choose Customize Your Machine under the Add To Cart button to add custom wood accents.
www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
@@Wholelattelovepage I guess these options are not available on the canadian website
I jus bought a mr. Coffee machine for $19 at Walmart
That's a great deal if we do say so ourselves! ☺️
It’s annoying that yo don’t tell us the price.
Mark, are you a paid promoter of Profitec?
Hi James, No I am not. I receive no compensation of any kind from Profitec. I review machines and products from competing manufactures as well - without compensation.
Marc
second!
p.s.: best machine!
Hey Lucas, just 23 seconds behind @Sandy D!
Marc
p.s.: what an incredible precise video!
first!
You are sooooo fast!
Marc
Please Mark, trim those fingernails!!
Thanks for the tip!
Is this upgrade for the US market only?
Hi Nigel, Not 100% certain. Profitec and other companies don't roll out changes simultaneously to all markets. If not available in yours yet it could be coming soon.
Marc