A bit of an update: Even though this was not a “test” of the fixtures by any official means, Robe did reach out and let me know that their numbers on color quality in the spec sheets are accurate with some specific channel settings in a proper testing environment (not the R90 shop at 3AM). Still waiting to get those exact channel values and will let you know what they are when I know :) hope you’re all having a great week.
Привет Крис! Чо как? 2года прошло , где данные от robe;))?? Вот у меня часто проблема возникает с etc source 4led lustr2 ( 5600k ) - со временем начинает светить более теплым цветом и это прогрессирует в жолтый цвет . Приходится снимать и в ремонт отправлять . Тоесть с пульта ставишь 5600k ,а прибор светит " жолтым" , хотя изначально в 5600к был хороший белый цвет .. Вот тебе и " калиброванные диоды ". Забыл написать - они изначально с завода в 5600к выдают не точный цвет , приходится крутить +- minus green
Messing with color is great! Here's what you need to know about your three color metrics: CRI is basically useless. Don't rely on it. Always ask manufacturers for TM-30. TM-30 is based on human vision and many many more color samples than CRI is. TLCI is based on the famous "ColorChecker Classic" now made by X-Rite and is designed specifically to predict color performance when broadcasting in Rec 709 color space. People often use TLCI in the cinema world but this is a mistake when you aren't shooting in Rec709! Measuring colors is VERY fun. I'm a researcher and former developer that specializes in all that color stuff you are talking about. I'm happy to share more! Feel free to send me a message or post questions here.
In tungsten or daylight studios we always do the lighting first and after that calirate the cameras using a grey chart. After that we use the calibrated camera as an measurement device to adjust any additional fixtures.
Next time you check some fixtures, take time to look at the R9 channel of the CRI. The R9 channel is about the red light (true red) and is very important if you want to light up some skin tones (whatever color of the skin). It's very important in cinema and TV lighting to have a very good R9 and CRI (more than 90/95) for the skintones and for the camera. Also for the colors and cameras : cameras don't like very saturated colors, some times it's better to set the saturation to 85/90% (max). At the camera it will be very saturated but at the eyes it could be not so much. If you have some questions, I will be glad to answer it :)
I am doing this for a long time, 30++ years now :) - Get used to work with the spectrogram ! It tells you more than other metrics. It shows you the gaps in the visible light, where to pull down with filters, so the absent wave lengths get 'boosted' in relation to the filtered ones. Imagine we used to buy a set of bulbs, put them all the same time into the movers, take them out after shows, so that all had a similar intensity and spectrum. LEDs are pretty, amazing, but sucky at lighting.... unless specifically designed for it, such as you find in Arri film lights. One thing beyond color to worry about is flicker, synchronizing shutter from camera with LED screens, LED lights, their temperatures and color qualities is nearly a job on its own !
Hey Christian, could you do a short video about getting 2 smpte in to MA2/3? i cant really find any good explanation on getting 2 smpte from showkontrol into MA. Great video btw, glad to see you posting more again. /Mathias - Denmark
Hey Mathias, yeah that’s a good idea for a video. I have some videos about the topic already, but not in one place. I use the smpte slot for A and an LTC to MTC converter (MIF4) connected to an onpc laptop in session as B
Very interesting Christian! I guess most of us are doing video lighting now, so its always good to broaden your horizon and learn new things. Where do you get your video-lighting information from? Is there a “Christian Jackson” guy on youtube or somewhere els who is teaching people how to do studio and broadcast lighting? Thanks for creating these awesome video’s anyway! Cheers!
I realize that you interact with much ETC gear on a regular basis but, it would be interesting to see you play with some of their stuff since true colors are their marketing call. I know at one point they even had plans to develop color profiles for a number of fixtures from other manufacturers for their consoles.
@@christianjackson There are many people who would like for that to work! I don't know how well it works in GDTF but the lighting industry as a whole, from the manufacturer side, wants to start putting more and more of this color information in each profile and even finding a way for each fixture to store and send its specific color information to the console.
I know that cheaper Spectrometers, in my case a Lumu Power will give you very different values (CRI / Colour temperature / green shift) when measuring a fixture at 5m/15ft or 1m/3ft. These values are expected to be constant unlike brightness. The closer to the fixture you get the spectrometer the more accurate it will be. I am not sure if your Spectrometer does the same thing but I would expect it preforming somewhat better. Measuring the fixtures from a constant distance would also make these variable constant.
Hey Christian, very interesting approach to color matching fixtures. I'm a DIT in the cinema industry in France so this interest you have towards color accuracy is right in my ball park. The catalog idea is a great one, but doesn't the color accuracy vary from individual fixture to fixture ? As in two of the same model will have a slight difference so your presets might not work on any given fixture model. Is that slight difference of any importance to you or do you think it's insignificant ? I know in the cinema industry on some sets every projectors is tested and adjusted individually but would understand that would take way to much time on a stage setup. Thanks for the cool video !
Hey Esteban, yes it does vary fixture to fixture, but a library of values that are 95% accurate and just need a bit of tweaking is still valuable to me :)
@@christianjackson @esteban I'm sure you would only need to do key lights or fill lights (front light on a front light on a festival stage) so the number of fixtures to balance wouldn't be huge. Would this be the responsibility of house LD or the Video director?
Nice video - good stuff. It is the attention to detail, testing, and research that keeps you in the top 10%. Staying with the lighting for video theme, have you done any research into refresh rates and different colour mixing systems refresh? Another handy palette for the arsenal I am sure!
I like how he says "to a console" 3:21 and just pulls out a GM2 (as far as I can see). I mean, yeah, in professional scene thats not that special. but to me its like THE ULTRA CONSOLE lol
Absolutely! Really important part of it. Balance the wall, match the lights to the wall, match the cameras to the light. Still not sure on the best order to do that in, but I would assume in that order.
Probably not the only one to mention this, but taking the adjustments from one fixture to the next won’t necessarily get that fixture completely dialed in. As the lights age the colors can shift. Definitely a good starting point though.
You know that values will varie from fixture to fixture even if that's lamp od same type? If You measure new lamps with new generations od sources You dont see it a lot but robe introduces replaceable engineer with no reason. What I try to say is building a presetbase for all fixturetypes might be good for new gear but it will degrade with tuner and workhours of engines.
I must admit that I did not finish the video, but I would worry less about the most exact colors in your video than I would worry about holding your camera still (a tripod is much cheaper than a spectrometer) and switching your focus to manual mode so that you are not out of focus all the time.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
A bit of an update: Even though this was not a “test” of the fixtures by any official means, Robe did reach out and let me know that their numbers on color quality in the spec sheets are accurate with some specific channel settings in a proper testing environment (not the R90 shop at 3AM). Still waiting to get those exact channel values and will let you know what they are when I know :) hope you’re all having a great week.
Привет Крис! Чо как?
2года прошло , где данные от robe;))??
Вот у меня часто проблема возникает с etc source 4led lustr2 ( 5600k ) - со временем начинает светить более теплым цветом и это прогрессирует в жолтый цвет . Приходится снимать и в ремонт отправлять . Тоесть с пульта ставишь 5600k ,а прибор светит " жолтым" , хотя изначально в 5600к был хороший белый цвет .. Вот тебе и " калиброванные диоды ". Забыл написать - они изначально с завода в 5600к выдают не точный цвет , приходится крутить +- minus green
You know it’s gonna be a good day when Christian uploads :)
Messing with color is great! Here's what you need to know about your three color metrics: CRI is basically useless. Don't rely on it. Always ask manufacturers for TM-30. TM-30 is based on human vision and many many more color samples than CRI is. TLCI is based on the famous "ColorChecker Classic" now made by X-Rite and is designed specifically to predict color performance when broadcasting in Rec 709 color space. People often use TLCI in the cinema world but this is a mistake when you aren't shooting in Rec709!
Measuring colors is VERY fun. I'm a researcher and former developer that specializes in all that color stuff you are talking about. I'm happy to share more! Feel free to send me a message or post questions here.
It is also a very handy tool to calibrate LED walls, to match the white balance of the lighting :-)
Hello, Christian! I really love your videos! you inspired me to work with stage lighting as a hobby
I do love the "This is the Velociraptor-free workplace" sign
In tungsten or daylight studios we always do the lighting first and after that calirate the cameras using a grey chart. After that we use the calibrated camera as an measurement device to adjust any additional fixtures.
Стандартная схема ;). И не надо никакого спектрометра приобретать ;)
Next time you check some fixtures, take time to look at the R9 channel of the CRI. The R9 channel is about the red light (true red) and is very important if you want to light up some skin tones (whatever color of the skin). It's very important in cinema and TV lighting to have a very good R9 and CRI (more than 90/95) for the skintones and for the camera.
Also for the colors and cameras : cameras don't like very saturated colors, some times it's better to set the saturation to 85/90% (max). At the camera it will be very saturated but at the eyes it could be not so much.
If you have some questions, I will be glad to answer it :)
I am doing this for a long time, 30++ years now :) - Get used to work with the spectrogram ! It tells you more than other metrics. It shows you the gaps in the visible light, where to pull down with filters, so the absent wave lengths get 'boosted' in relation to the filtered ones.
Imagine we used to buy a set of bulbs, put them all the same time into the movers, take them out after shows, so that all had a similar intensity and spectrum. LEDs are pretty, amazing, but sucky at lighting.... unless specifically designed for it, such as you find in Arri film lights.
One thing beyond color to worry about is flicker, synchronizing shutter from camera with LED screens, LED lights, their temperatures and color qualities is nearly a job on its own !
I really miss the feeling of pulling out the shutters on a Source Four.
Hey Christian, could you do a short video about getting 2 smpte in to MA2/3? i cant really find any good explanation on getting 2 smpte from showkontrol into MA.
Great video btw, glad to see you posting more again.
/Mathias - Denmark
Hey Mathias, yeah that’s a good idea for a video. I have some videos about the topic already, but not in one place. I use the smpte slot for A and an LTC to MTC converter (MIF4) connected to an onpc laptop in session as B
Not having any R9 seems a little worrisome since it's fairly important for the reproduction of skin tones... @ 11:24
Very interesting Christian! I guess most of us are doing video lighting now, so its always good to broaden your horizon and learn new things.
Where do you get your video-lighting information from? Is there a “Christian Jackson” guy on youtube or somewhere els who is teaching people how to do studio and broadcast lighting?
Thanks for creating these awesome video’s anyway! Cheers!
I realize that you interact with much ETC gear on a regular basis but, it would be interesting to see you play with some of their stuff since true colors are their marketing call. I know at one point they even had plans to develop color profiles for a number of fixtures from other manufacturers for their consoles.
Really intressting Video.
Its possible to store those measurment value in a GDTF File as an Emitter Attribute? This would be nice and helpful.
Exactly my thoughts as well.
@@christianjackson There are many people who would like for that to work! I don't know how well it works in GDTF but the lighting industry as a whole, from the manufacturer side, wants to start putting more and more of this color information in each profile and even finding a way for each fixture to store and send its specific color information to the console.
Pulling the film off that LCD gave me tingles.
I love lights
I know that cheaper Spectrometers, in my case a Lumu Power will give you very different values (CRI / Colour temperature / green shift) when measuring a fixture at 5m/15ft or 1m/3ft. These values are expected to be constant unlike brightness. The closer to the fixture you get the spectrometer the more accurate it will be. I am not sure if your Spectrometer does the same thing but I would expect it preforming somewhat better. Measuring the fixtures from a constant distance would also make these variable constant.
Oh, I just found Lumu and thought it might be a good and cheap alternative to the c-800. But is it really?
@@rainerdevries4981get the c-800.
Hey Christian, very interesting approach to color matching fixtures. I'm a DIT in the cinema industry in France so this interest you have towards color accuracy is right in my ball park. The catalog idea is a great one, but doesn't the color accuracy vary from individual fixture to fixture ? As in two of the same model will have a slight difference so your presets might not work on any given fixture model. Is that slight difference of any importance to you or do you think it's insignificant ? I know in the cinema industry on some sets every projectors is tested and adjusted individually but would understand that would take way to much time on a stage setup. Thanks for the cool video !
Hey Esteban, yes it does vary fixture to fixture, but a library of values that are 95% accurate and just need a bit of tweaking is still valuable to me :)
@@christianjackson @esteban I'm sure you would only need to do key lights or fill lights (front light on a front light on a festival stage) so the number of fixtures to balance wouldn't be huge. Would this be the responsibility of house LD or the Video director?
Great content. Thank you!
Nice video - good stuff. It is the attention to detail, testing, and research that keeps you in the top 10%. Staying with the lighting for video theme, have you done any research into refresh rates and different colour mixing systems refresh? Another handy palette for the arsenal I am sure!
Robe Esprite 😊❤️
That Forte is massive gezzz
Bought the same couple of months ago. Not specefic for camera, but more for color magic haha. Still use Lee filters for specific reasons on led bulbs.
Can you make a training video on how to write a lamp driver?
3:54 "now kith"
Nice video. Could you show how you calibrate fixtures in MA? That’s the only part that got skipped
I’m just adjusting the rgb/cmy, cto, and tint channels manually in the programmer.
I think that that would be a pretty cool thing for me to get some day. Maybe a long time in the future though lol.
I like how he says "to a console" 3:21 and just pulls out a GM2 (as far as I can see). I mean, yeah, in professional scene thats not that special. but to me its like THE ULTRA CONSOLE lol
As a Vidiot, I'm curious if this could be used to help color correct panels, since virtual/ AR production is becoming a big thing too
Absolutely! Really important part of it. Balance the wall, match the lights to the wall, match the cameras to the light. Still not sure on the best order to do that in, but I would assume in that order.
@@christianjackson Sounds like a fun experiment to see what method is best
Nice video. Thank you Bro
woohoo Forte
Hi Christian Jackson,
What do you think about Unreal Engine 4.26 DMX plugin for lighting control?
Want to know your thought about this. Thank you
Never used it! Sorry
Привет. В чём разница с Sekonic c800-u ?
Sourceforge Jr right away you know when that light strikes its Tungsten. Nothing beats Tungsten, all those LED lights try but always a dollar short.
Do the teardown of it. Let's see what kind of sensors it has inside.
nice! what was this shot with?
Sony a6600 with Sony 16-55 G
19:10 blackscreen command 😀
Probably not the only one to mention this, but taking the adjustments from one fixture to the next won’t necessarily get that fixture completely dialed in. As the lights age the colors can shift. Definitely a good starting point though.
Of course, just want to get them 95% there to save time :)
just recently looked at exactly the same one, but nah, saw the price 😅
It took me a few months of internal debate before I finally decided it was a good tool to have 🥲
i'll put it on the list until some day... maybe...😅😂
2:18 led beam..... I would call it a L.E.D./LED beam
Lol under 70Ra and R9 in the dumps. Why I stockpile Tungsten bulbs to insure I have enough to last me a life time.
... so... this is the heaven?
You know that values will varie from fixture to fixture even if that's lamp od same type? If You measure new lamps with new generations od sources You dont see it a lot but robe introduces replaceable engineer with no reason. What I try to say is building a presetbase for all fixturetypes might be good for new gear but it will degrade with tuner and workhours of engines.
I must admit that I did not finish the video, but I would worry less about the most exact colors in your video than I would worry about holding your camera still (a tripod is much cheaper than a spectrometer) and switching your focus to manual mode so that you are not out of focus all the time.
25:09 "actually the worst clamps ever"... let me guess, these stupid theater hooks?
omg I think this a wifi MIDI control stick with a control wheel!!
15th
Oh man those R9 values are disgusting