04 12 2017 Ram Pump Upgrades * New Valves * and Garlic
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- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2024
- In this video I show and explain the new valves I upgraded the ram pump with. I test the new foot valve against the old swing check valve for volume delivery. This gives a performance comparison between the 2 valves. Clearly a Swing Check produces more volume stock. I will be modifying the foot valve to allow for more volume per cycle at which point I expect at least comparable if not a little better water delivery.
Also, a quick clip of the garlic in the beginning of the video.
I like how you put the check valve right up against main pump valve.
You have to replace the rubber o-rings about every 2-3 years or so depending on how much use you put on it. My pumps never stop running except for about 1 month during the winter.
Remember rule No.1 concerning ram pumps: Never use ANY plastic parts or it is guaranteed fail.
You can increase your out put by putting weights on the main pump valve....the pump will run a bit slower but the out put will increase. the amount of weight that you put on the main valve is very touchy and with just the right amount of weight you can balance the amount of inflow to match the output.
So what I got with the conclusion of your video is that it was better that you left it alone
Initially, stock, yes.. but see my later videos because this valve was the BEST upgrade I ever did on my ram pump. It just needed more open time in the cycle. I did some machining and added some weights and now it is massively better.
If high head and good volume of water you can doube up the waste valve, more volume of water can delivered. I tested and proven to my home made ram pump.
Well that is something I will have to try again when I have high head place to test. I could see that working with more head and / or a better ratio head to delivery. cheers!
Adding weight to the foot valve is the key. problem is that if you add weight to the bottom of the brass valve, it will break the valve head off from the stem. The trick is to use a stainless steel valve stem and drill out the valve head and then run the new stem through the valve head and use it to attach weights to the bottom of the valve.
The other option is to make the new valve stem long enough to stick out the top of the housing and then mount the weights on top. You are definitely going in the right direction.
watch "dougs ram pump" series as he explains what happens after ten years of ram pump experimenting.. He will save you a lot of headaches.
Watched dougs years back! He was great! Very nice system he had! Yes, after many years of tweaking I learned a lot! cheers!
I finally went stainless steel check valves as the brass ones don't hold up as well over time.
you can add weight to your footvalve.... too slowdown the pump cycles which will and will pump more volumes of water ...
ha! funny you should mention that... just finished that upgrade today. Will be uploading a video later tonight on it.
The Farmacy Seeds Network did you put weights on the footvalve or the swing check valve? I tried on my swing check valve and it worked out good I posted some video
oh the foot valve... you weighted a swing check eh? hmmm...
pretty cool... how did you attach that? (saw your video)
The Farmacy Seeds Network all thread bolt with a locknut it's all rednkeck engineering LOL. ...
but the bolt actually sheared off so I bought another 2"swing. ..
how can I modify the footvalve? without all the extra wear
I think with this next one I'm going to drill the hole and actually thread the all thread bolt through the threads that way gives it extra strength and support I'm hoping otherwise I wasted another $40 check valve these things are expensive and those are 200 bugs
The stronger spring shortens the cycle. The less water in motion in the delivery pipe, produces less ram effect.Less flow, in overcoming the resistance in the check valve. As well, as the size of the check valve itself. Use a larger check valve than the delivery pipe size. (with bell or donut reducers )
yep... it all comes down to inertia vs resistance. I wish the spring had more flow... I would size valves up another level... but I'm pushing the edge of it's capacity as it is. I really need to get steel pipe and concrete mounts in place... up the efficiency. Steel pipe is expensive though... so for now... I'm good... So far since the ram upgrades I've pumped 156,600 gallons in 145 days delivered to 72 feet above the pump.
Yours sounds like a good system. I had a friend who bough a piece of property in the Sierra foothills. After seven years his pump quit. After hacking away the Blackberries and the brush, he found it was a ram pump. He replaced the broken valve, and away she went.
I once taught classes in building. I had the students build a Ram pump from 3" ABS (drive pipe) with 5' of fall (20' horizontal with a 5' vertical), and a 3/4" output line 22' high, 1,400 gals per day, unadjusted (very slow cycling). The flush opening was a toilet flange, the valve made of washers and flat rubber, and a looped 4' flat piece of 1/8"x1-1/2 steel for a spring, with a bolt across it for adjusting the speed. The "Flapper" with a bolt through it and bolted to the end of the flat spring.
The Mass and velocity of the water (Kinetic energy) is what gives the pump its power, minus the friction in the drive pipe, and the "vacuum effect" of a long drive pipe. Hence the need for stand pipes, but with one way valves on top. (Under counter plumbing, demand venting ). Otherwise some of the ram effect will be lost driving water up the standpipe. The check valve in the air chamber was a bolt, long, with flat rubber and a 1-1/2 orifice into the air chamber.
The larger the output line, the more gravitational resistance to flow there is, and the higher the pressure in the chamber, but not necessarily more flow.
I suspect there is a "Sweet Spot", pipe size and flow, for the output line in any given system.
Also, the resonance of the reflected wave in the drive pipe, if the pump is tuned to it, will increase the ram effect, and increase the output.
Conversely, if the reflected wave is dramatically out of phase with the cycling of the ram valve, it impedes the flow. This is more true of short cycle periods.
Almost all of the pumps on uTube are long cycle.
(Tesla stated that pumping in phase creates an additive effect, increasing the amplitude of the kinetic energy of a mechanical system.)
This is the part I like best about rams "After seven years his pump quit. After hacking away the Blackberries and the brush, he found it was a ram pump" :)
I would love to see pics or video of the system you had the students build... sound VERY well designed and I like fabricating my own stuff whenever possible. Very nice!
Yes, resonance and tuning is everything... whether mechanical, electrical, or audio or light... all energies interact... in phase you take gains... out of phase you take losses. I'm so glad to see you relate this to Tesla... He was a genius and sadly wasn't credited as he should have been.
You are so right on larger output line and gravitational dampening... I hadn't considered the hydraulics aspect of that part... glad I chose 3/4" line... was planning on 1"... but when it came to $$... I couldn't swing it. But I THINK that works in my favor... Yeah, I'd love to have unlimited resources and time to "tweak" trying different line sizes etc...
Anyway... great comments and thanks for sharing!
my friend and I have been back and forth in email chatting about this... his latest response is along those lines and I thought you'd appreciate it as well:
pump phasing: this principle is used in 2 stroke expansion chamber
design. While not valved, the exhaust enters a chamber that expands
rapidly and then contracts rapidly along it's length. This has two
effects when the rpm reaches phasing with the physical properties of the
chamber. First it creates a scavenging effect at the exhaust port,
drawing a vacuum on the cylinder after the exhaust pulse. This vacuum
draws out the exhaust remaining in the cylinder after the pressure
equalizes, clearing it completely. As the phase aligns better, the
scavenging also draws fresh fuel/air into the exhaust pipe. This is
significant due to the second effect of the expansion chamber, which is a
reversion wave created as the chamber tapers down. This reversion wave
shoves the fuel/air back into the cylinder through the exhaust port just
as the piston is traveling up for another compression stroke. Sound
familiar? It's a supercharger with no moving parts, which relies on
fluid dynamics to operate. That's what gives 2 strokes a power band.
Cool eh?
yup!
Failing springs is EXACTLY why I want to stay away from spring checks.
On the foot valve where the spring is designed to hold it CLOSED, it is some sort of back pressure that pulls it open after the initialization?
The spring is removed on the foot valve. Yes, the refraction wave opens the valve - effectively a suction pulse that follows the pressure pulse. (Ram pumps are a resonant circuit of sorts)
The smaller surface area on your 1 1/4 needs more psi to open it than your 1 1/2, resulting in a lower flow rate with the larger valve...on the other hand it might pump to a higher point with the larger valve
Well actually it really all comes down to flow which translates the kinetic energy of the water flowing in the pipe. You have to remember with my 1.25, it is only on the impetus valve, not matched to the secondary valve. Either way, the water in the pipe is not reaching the same velocity (kinetic energy) as the larger valve. Also, on the impetus valve, it is open until water velocity is high enough to slam it closed. Sometimes this is a little counter-intuitive. It definitely pumps higher head pressures and great volumes with the larger valve, but of course this only works when there is sufficient water to drive it. I am planning to build a monitoring system for it in the future, and eventually make them available to the public. Thanks for watching, commenting etc!
Do you always have to match the size of the valves or can the waste valve be smaller and if so how much smaller can you go? Could you do a 1.5"check valve to a half inch waste valve? You should make playlists of your various topics you have made videos of, especially the ram pump stuff. Great stuff, thanks for posting.
Yes, you can mismatch... there will be efficiency losses, but you'll be able to run with less water like in dry seasons. Ideally matched valve sizes is best. Great minds think alike, my content is all set up in playlists: ruclips.net/user/TheFarmacySeedsNetworkplaylists?view_as=subscriber Thanks for the great comments and questions!
Very nice video! Where do you buy foot valves like the one in your video?
Thanks! Cheapest place is Amazon.
How much of a water flow does one need to activate the first check valve on the incoming low pressure sided or ft of head.
about 3 ft of head minimum recommended. pipe size (and consequently pump size will determine flow requirements) mine, currently can go as low as about 8 gallons a minute and maintains about 5.5 ft of head. this is a 1.5 inch "tuned" pump with good water delivery..
Qual é a distância que tá jogando e a altura e vazão?
Obrigado amigo e parabéns pelo projeto.
No Habla espanol... Habla english?
how is much feet delivery pipe I think I hear 800ft
Yes 880 feet of delivery line... 72 feet vertical rise
@@TheFarmacySeedsNetwork wow amazing thinking about using one on our farm , from the river to the farm would be about 500ft into a storage tank
Is one valve quieter than another?
yes the new foot valve is MUCH quieter.. even more so after setting it up so it is immersed at the exit.
What is the part number for the new foot valve?
I thought I replied to this comment... I don't have the part number... But you can find suitable replacements on Amazon much cheaper than any of the hardware stores in my experience. Search "brass foot valve" on amazon in the size you want to use. cheers!
where to buy the foot valve?
I got mine at a local hardware store.. but you can find them on amazon... www.amazon.com/s?k=1.5+inch+brass+foot+valve&ref=nb_sb_noss Thanks for watching!
can you build enough pressure with a ram pump to have a shower or run water from the tap in the kitchen?
You can build enough pressure... but sustaining it will depend on your pressure vessel for pressure storage. The better way to do it is in a reservoir above your delivery point and let gravity supply as much volume as you need on demand. This way you are always refilling / overflowing your reservoir and have as much as the size of your reservoir "on demand" as it were. I have 2 reservoirs.. a "high" about 15 - 20 ft above the "service area"... and a "low" being a 4000 gallon Intex pool (mostly used for drip irrigation or the rare need to flood an area)
As a note: My ram pump with 6.5 ft of input height can produce up to 90 PSI.. enough to climb over 200 vertical feet.
I wanted to supply my cabin with water off grid. can it be done with a bigger ram , say 11/2"feed?I want to supply a toilet,bathroom sink shower n kitchen sink cabin is 24' x30'
it can be done provided you have enough water and enough fall to run the ram... after that... it is all about reservoir size and time to refill it.
unless you build a VERY large ram pump... it will not supply continuous to the cabin... but if you have a reservoir high enough (as little as 15 feet) it can be pumped full by the ram and gravity fed to shower, tub, sink etc. see my reservoir videos. cheers!
If you need a consultant, let me know.
Lead in brass?
No lead in this system. I'm not sure what you're referring to?
The most toxic element of this system is the DWV pipe (poly-vinyl-chloride based) I wish I could do it all in stainless steel or copper... but it would be a BIT pricey. :)
@@TheFarmacySeedsNetwork there's lead in brass pipes and valves. Is your PVC the same used for water pipes?
lead in brass valves? really? tell me more! the pvc is the cheaper stuff Drain Waste Vent (DWC) unfortunately. it came down to price. If I keep farming here and budget allows, I'd switch to all steel pipe probably unless you have a better suggestion for anti-contamination.
@@TheFarmacySeedsNetwork there's some lead.in the brass from manufacturing. I think there are some ways to remove it like a soak
👍🏾
To much weight and the pump will stop, not enough weight and you loose out put as the pump will pump faster but with less out put as the slower it runs the higher the pressure.....and that is also when things start breaking apart.
You should measure the volume of that jar before believing it. Those jars are undersized. I have done it.
It's really just for reference... using the same container... to determine if we are getting more or less water after a modification. but yes, for precise measurement, always calibrate.
Here is a link to the next Farmacy Seeds Network video that shows an upgraded or tuned version of the check valve that has better water volume.
ruclips.net/video/M-sdiGpWZC8/видео.html
Thanks!
A little slower on the panning please. I don't have an air sickness bag handy.
Haha! Sorry... camera work wasn't as refined then!
hey my pump runs great for few hours then stops I restart it runs great for few hours then stops again posted couple new vids
hmmm... sounds like maybe there is some air getting inducted occasionally. That would be my guess as it's proven to be a problem for me on occasion as well. When air gets in, it disrupts the cycle just enough to cause the valve to hesitate sometimes. I don't know all the parameters of your setup... but I see that supply pipe flexing quite a lot with the cycles... I would find a spot closer to the pump and install a standpipe. It will make for much smoother operation. Here's a great link for design on ram pumps:
www.slideshare.net/Fatin62c/homemade-hydraulic-ram-pump-clemson-university
Let me know if I can help anymore
Cheers! TFSN
the other possibility is a pressure chamber leak.
I like this video so much because I needed to do this in my place.
My ram pump is the same, I decided to take out the spring of my waste valve and now my ram pump is more than a month working without any problem.
Looks like your valves are way too close together,,,,, may be less problematic ... but as americans we want more,, we wanna see more,,, big results right now,,, we want that shit blowing out soo fast that it scares people,,,,