Good and fair review. Full disclosure, I've owned a ZenBivy quilt and sheet for close to 5 years, and I love it. I can't speak to the mattress or pillow, but the sheet and quilt combo on a Nemo Tensor XL have given me the best sleep I've had in the backcountry in in 40+ years of camping. I'd buy it again without question. That said, I'm not an ultralight hiker and I understand your critiques of the system in that regard.
I like the idea of draft free sleeping, so I bought a Zenbivy sheet and attached loops to the side of my quilt with tenacious tape. It works great, doesn't weigh that much and my sleep got so much better due to less drafts. The full sheet feels like a real bed and removes the plastic feel of my sleeping pad. - 2mm cord - 8 patches - The loops need to be inside the edge of the quilt by at least 25 cm (=9.84 inch) - Attach the loops 35cm from the top of the quilt, spaced at 22 cm (=8.66 inch)
I really hope that I can rig that sheet up to my perfectly comfortable (4.6R Value 20oz) and affordable ($75) paria xl recharge with the paria 15 degree quilt ($150) that I have been using for the past 5 years!
Do you use a none zenbivvy quilt? The way you said you attached hoops to your quilt makes me think you are using a different quilt. If so can you tell us or show us how you did it? Because I just bought a nemo tensor extreme and a UGQ outlaw 0 degree bag but I want to pair that system with a zenbivvy sheet.
Thanks for the review. I bought the ZB half sheet, put it over my 25” Uber lite pad and attached 8 DCF patches with loops(zpack) to my EE 20*. Took it on the pct this year for the whole season and it worked and continues to work great. Price of half sheet and DCF patches at the time was under $100.
Do you have a video showing the patches and hoops? I'm wanting to do the same thing with my ugq quilt. I just bought a nemo tensor extreme and the egq outlaw and will plan on buying a zenbivvy sheet but I want my quilt to buckle into the sheet like you are talking about.
I found the perfect solution for me: I bought the Sheet only and I have sewed the loops for the sheet to my existing 6 years old down quilt. Works very well and costs me like nothing more than the Sheet.
Great example of why gear has a personal preference dimension. Having been a ZenBivy user for several years, and upgrading to the UL version I find it simply fantastic for me. Best sleep ever. Too bad Darwin didn’t try the pillow but if what he uses works great for him that’s fine. I thought long and hard about the weight of the pillow but tried it because the air pillows I’ve tried are not comfortable at all. Love this pillow, better than the one I have at home. As for the hood, it has to be below freezing to use it, it does keep the pillow in place and that contributes to the overall sleep experience for me. The pad; I really like the new one and find it very comfortable- I’m also a side sleeper who moves around a lot. I did upgrade while it was on sale and that makes the price more reasonable in my opinion- the list price is a bit steep but I sleep so well and that has value.
My wife and I have the lite beds in the 10f and we were able to buy narrower pads because an overlooked benefit of the sheet is that it cradles your arms preventing them from slipping off. Gotta factor that into the weight savings calculations plus I was able to merge the two into a puffy plush dream monster by simply connecting the loops on the inner meeting seams with some cut up pieces of rubberized gear ties. Bypassed having to permanently disfugure our quilts to achieve something similar with tape or other adhesives. I can't fathom how you'd do that with a revelation with fewer connection points along the perimeter without tape or sewing. Another plus for biv, marvelous for couples.
I switched to Zen Bivy about 2 years ago. Love the hood mostly to keep my pillow in place. For that reason the uninsulated hood is optimal for me. It is not available on the ultra light, but the fast foot box on the other quilts is amazing as well. another thing you did not touch on is their compression sacks. They have a 1 way valve that lets you really crank down on them and make these quilts super small for fitting in your pack with very little effort. I just got an ultralight 25. I dont like it AS much, but it is still great, and helps me get my pack under target weight when I know I need to carry extra water or food. I also really appreciate their al a cart purchasing, and their customer service is extremely good.
I do use a zenbivy. I have the old sheet that was full length but got the new ultralight quilt recently. It is actually just the right thing for me and I have tried a lot of bag and quilt options. I toss and turn all night and even with pad straps would find quilts leaving me exposed on one side and freezing. The side fabric and loops kept me from making a mess of things and I actually sleep through the night now which I never thought would be possible. I agree with the hood, useless except as a pillow barn. I don't own the pad, but use the sheet with my long/wide thermarest neo-topo (my luxury item 4 inch mattress). Also agree the pillow is extra. I have use mine and it is lovely, but I could get by with my nemo fillo elite. Great review love that you show that new (well marketed) gear is not always an improvement, especially over gear you have that works!
Thanks for a great review, Darwin. I’ve been using the ZenBivy system for about 6 years. I’ve got both the 10 and 25 degree quilts and an uninsulated sheet. I tried a traditional quilt and didn’t like the drafts when I tossed and turned. The side baffles are what continue to sell the ZB for me. I use a ThermARest pad and Sea To Summit pillow. My ZenBivy is one of my favorite 3 pieces of gear.
Instead of 'the sheet' you can use a sleeping bag liner but use it on the outside to keep your quilt or bag tucked - for winter hiking in Scotland I always carry two liners. Thermal one for inside the bag and a lighter one to put the quilt inside. Toasty!! : )
@@deKampeerwijzer No, just holds it snuggly in place around your body and stops it slipping off. Doesn't really compress the quilt to any great extent.
I also have the same quilt you have, $460, a Thermarest Xtherm pad bought used for $150, and a Sea-to Summit pillow for $60. Total $670 and completely satisfied.
I’m glad you raised the issue of the country of manufacture. Products made in the USA, or in Europe, are not necessarily more expensive than products made in Asia, despite much higher labor costs.
I came from a Sierra Designs Back Country Bed. Knowing its creator is the creator of the zen bivy, lets me know its next for me! For me, it is the creator and his theory. My back country bed is almost 15yrs old now.
The best honest review of the Zen Bivvy that I saw. Thanks Darwin I own and Enigma and Bandit quilts as well and like them lots. I am primarily a hammock camper so I would never consider the Zen Bivvy anyways
Fair review, for sure! I have the Zenbivy sheet and the 25 quilt. I've had them for 30 nights on trail so far, a little over a year. Unlike you, I LOVE the hood! It keeps my pillow from sliding around, which was a major cause of lost sleep in the past. I use a Nemo Tensor pad and a smaller inflatable pillow. For convenience I leave my quilt attached to one side of the sheet and leave the other side open. This system has definitely improved my sleeping on trail. I might get that pillow (that you didn't like!) since I still find myself missing the loft.
Loved the vid... I have the zenbivy 15 degree light bed and love it for car camping. I did not purchase the pillow nor the insulated hood for the same reasons as your vid. I just went with the basic sheet with no regrets. I use my 20 inch Xtherm for my sleep pad and works great. For backpacking I use the EE Revelation 20 degree custom quilt with my Xtherm when tent camping. when using my hammock I use the UGQ quilt sets.
I get to call Oregon my home and it truly makes me happy to hear you speak highly of our beloved mountain. I'm glad you see the beauty in it like I do.
Just went through this exact same process with the same comparable gear. What I ended up doing is keeping only the UL sheet and putting some Zpacks stackable loops on my Enigma. Pair it with my pad and my pillow and I get a much better system at only 2.7 ounces more allowing me to move more freely without the drafts. I’m 6’5” and 260, straps just aren’t enough.
I use the zenbivy quilt, occasionally the sheet on colder nights. Hate their pad, use the sea to summit ether something. And a thermarest compression pillow. And I’ve never had better sleep in the back country. It’s a mix and match for me
If you are a backpacker that really spends a lot of time out there and have the money, why not. For me, it looks like a gimmick. When it's warm, I unzip my mummy bag and use it like a quilt. When it's cold I zip up till only my nose sticks out. I use a trusty old z fold with a light air mattress on top. I never wake up on the ground and have a little seat while around camp. Total cost, about 90 dollars counting the duck down bag.
Good to see you back doing gear reviews. As I've aged my major challenge is sleeping pads. I'm happy with the other parts of my sleep system and even have a "sheet" should I decide I need one. Like you, I'm tall and boney. The longer I walk the boney-er I get. Do I really need to spend a day napping at REI to see if the next sleeping mat will insulate and protect my hips and knees?
Appreciate the review & comparisons. My goto for many years has been a WM Summerlite 30F sleeping bag, 19oz, $505 and Zlite Sol CCF pad at 15oz, $60. Total 34oz (2lb 2oz), $565. I recently posted a video on other Big 3/4 systems. More recently I'm using 1/8" pad &/or Reflectix as a pad. My priority is simplicity.
As someone who tends to sleep hot, and also bring a quilt/pad much warmer than I need (because I only have one quilt and my winter pad is lighter than my summer one) I find the sheet makes a massive difference in my sleep comfort. I just made one with about $30 of materials from a Joann's. Just stitch a pocket on one end for the pad and stitch a sleeve for some cord to tie the bottom end to the pad. Not as ultralight but well worth the weight for the extra comfort I get.
Darwin, if you want to go back and review the sleeping pad. The designer went on Dan Becker's channel and said you kind of have to almost over inflate it to take advantage of the top material's ability to stretch but not let you hit the ground. Dan had the same problem before as well bc he didnt inflate it enough per intended design.
I just returned from two back to back trips in Wyoming using the zen bivy 10 degree UL quilt and sheet system. I used it in conjunction with the newest Nemo Tensor insulated pad and stayed very warm despite below freezing temps, thunderstorms, snow and hail. I agree that I often put my pillow on top of the hood for comfort reasons. My biggest complaint was the white color. I know it seems silly, but I dealt with a lot of dirt, debris and muddy conditions for several days and the white quilt ended up showing everything. Even small dirt and sand on my tent floor would stick with static to the white quilt despite shaking it out in the fresh air each morning. Ideally, I could set up and take down my camp in dry conditions, but nothing about either of my trips into the Tetons and the Wind River Range was ideal. No matter how careful I was, the quilt showed more dirt and use than I've ever noticed on my other quilts. I've already made arrangements to have it cleaned by eClean, just because I don't want to store it dirty. I wish Zen Bivy would've used a different color for the quilt or provided a choice. As for performance, I was very pleased.
@@wanttogo1958 I'm only having eClean clean the white 10 degree quilt. We had lots of thunderstorms and mud and the white color was the worst. I really want to see if they can get the white fabric back to new. In the future, I may use my borah bivy over the top just to protect the white fabric. I washed my dcf tent in the bathtub and water ran black for at least three rinses (The floor is not dcf in tarptent tents). The zen bivy sheets are very easy to hand wash in a sink. I also had a 20 degree quilt that hadn't been cleaned in a couple of years, so I sent that in too as I think it helps get body oils out of the down.
Side sleeper here, but don’t hit the ground as mentioned, just gotta give the pad one or two more puffs so it holds better. That makes the pad more stiff but I think it’s better for my body/back to be more stiff than on the softer side. Also the waffle baffles are the way to go for pressure relief as a side sleeper, other pads will make my arms/shoulders go numb. I’m 6’2 and weigh 175pounds, Eastern Sierra weekend warrior, weight, qualify and simplicity are my big 3. I wouldn’t mind trying just the sheet out and sewing some loops onto my current quilt to make it work. I use a Sea to Summit Either Lite XT pad in women’s long, as women’s has a bit better R-value than the men’s yet smaller and lighter because of the shape, don’t need the square or wider top half as a side sleeper. Super comfy pad. Have a customer EE 20f quilt, 950 fill. Still exploring pillow combinations, but seems that the small Therms Rest Compressible pillow is the winner, a bit heavy and big but worth it, I throw my pants and ass pad under the head area of my sleeping pad to raise my head a bit higher.
I’ve used the Zenbivy system (sheet and quilt) and I love it. I love the hood because it’s not as constrictive as a sleeping bag. It’s very versatile. That said, I love my Revelation quilt and wouldn’t say the Zenbivy system is so much better. Can’t wait to try out their ultralight pad. I’ve been using the same pad as you’re using and while it’s light, it keeps me warm, the comfort is meh. I have sore hips, which is something I don’t have with the BA Rapide SL or S2M Ether light for instance. They’re not as warm though which is why I’m still looking for comfortable alternatives that also keep me warm.
I got the light sheet on sale and use magnetic clips from Amazon that fit the sheet hooks, then attach the magnets to my quilt. Works like a charm, and only adds about 3.5 oz to my kit.
Here's a cottage gear idea: sell a set of fitted sheets and top sheet with elastic straps/clips to fit over any brand of sleep pad. Offer them for 22", 25", thin & thick pads from major brands. Watch the dollars roll in...maybe.
I’m a little late to the comment party but if you carefully read how the down in the Zenbivy quilt is treated (ExpaDRY) you will find that it should perform better in bad situations and long term. Also it’s just more cozy to sleep under with the sheet. As far as the pillow goes.. if you’re a side sleeper (which you said you were) with wide shoulders like I have, the tall height of the pillow is the best. Lastly the pad… What no one communicates is that for that pad to be comfortable for side sleeping and for warmth it has to be blown up very firm and tight. Ask me how I know 😂 You shouldn’t be afraid to give it another try.
Love my UGQ Bandit 20 deg & use use one pad strap. My favorite piece of gear - great to crawl into at night after a long day on the trail. Has never let me down over 4+ years of use. Also use the X-Lite - no complaints but I have to be a little particular in how much I inflate it.
Good for you for reviewing this product well. Your passion is showing and it blows those day packers opinions wide open. They’re YES MEN, keep this up Darwin! See ya out there, on the Collegiate Loop now 👍🏼
I have the Zenbivy Light bed and really like the side hook/loops when it's cool and windy because it really does help keep the draft out after you toss and turn at night. It kept me warm at the rated temperature so happy with that, and not as restrictive as a sleeping bag; I sleep really well with the system. I do like the hood when it's cold, but when it's not cold it's not useful. I haven't tried their pad or their pillow. That said, I've not used a lot of other quilts so if you're really trying to count those grams then another system might be more ideal. I'm considering an Enlightened Equipment quilt for next time.
I toss and turn a lot, and for that, the Zenbivvy sheet with the quilt is far superior to anything else I have used over the years. It gives me a sense of freedom and cosiness, I find uniquely comfortable. I also turn the hood backwards over the sleeping pad as I don't need it. I agree the pillow seems overkill, and I will stick with the pillow I already have. As I already had the Nemo Tensor with an R 5.4 value, I didn't buy the Zenbivy pad. All in all, my combination works just fine.
I have always been curious about this. I well sleep similar to your setup. I really did enjoy the quality/ cost perspective versus Domestic and Foreign manufacturing. That was a solid review. Thanks, Dude!
Great video. I love my UGQ quilt. Always though the pricing from Zenbivy was a bit on the high end. If someone wants a sheet take a super lightweight liner and put it over the pad. And if you want to go a step further get some silicone magnetic cable ties and MacGyver your own Zenbivy version.
I also like the idea of draft free sleeping, so I bought a sleeping bag. Of course, as you say, the down compresses under my body, so I bought the same sleeping pad you use with your quilt. When it's warm out, I pull the head of my sleeping bag out of its stuff sack and drape it over my upper body, much like a quilt. As it gets colder, more of the bag comes out of the sack, more of my body gets covered, until my feet go into the bag, and ultimately the bag gets zipped. I can find no advantage of a quilt over a bag.
I agree on the pad for sure I went for the Exped Ultra 5R wide pad. The ultra light sheet and the light quilt are what I got from zenbivy. I also went for the same Sea To Summit pillow.
I totally agree with you on every point for 3 season trekking. I use the Insulated Nemo Tensor pad. It works for my bony hips, and the first gen "OV" blow up pillow for years now. Works for me. BTW, interesting to hear about your Tri background. I raced back in the day when Lance A. and Mark Allen were competing. Worked, lived, and played in Boulder.
I have to say I really like my ZenBivy set up. I just sleep a lot better which is worth a lot to me. I have the light bed system and got it on sale so it was pretty cheap but also not as light as the UL system. I only bought the sheet and quilt and used my existing REI pad and trekology pillow. Love it so much. But I’m also not thru hiking.
I have the ultralight mattress and I like it as a back sleeper. The quilted pattern is the most comfortable for me. If you are a side sleeper, you have to blow it up all the way to not hit the ground.
Since you can use any pad or pillow with the zenbivy you should just compare the Enigma to the ZB's quilt + sheet. The Enigma you spec is 1lb 5oz and costs $460, while the ZB is 1lb 6oz and costs $540. So basically the ZB is 4% heavier and 17% more expensive for a superior attachment system. depending on your priorities either eems reasonable.
@@МихаилРусин-ы1о nothing other than the quilt's hooks are designed to attach to the sheet's loops, but I'm sure you could jury rig something without the sheet, of just use it like a blanket, which is what I do most of the time.
I have been curious about the Zenbivy UL system. But, I have curated a backpacking sleep system that works well for me in temps at or above 30°F. - Sleeping bag: Big Agnes Sidewinder SL 20 Women’s in regular. - Sleeping pad: Nemo Tensor Alpine Insulated in long-wide (there wasn’t a regular-wide available in the Alpine Insulated version). - Pillows: 1. Exped Mega Pillow (with shock cord attached for fastening to the sleeping pad). 2. Trekology Aluft 2.0 Pillow with pad strap. I sleep on my side and need extra head height (for reasons), so I attach the Exped pillow to the pad and then the Trekology pillow to the Exped pillow…stacked.)
Sounds like you can get sheet to use with the other parts of your sleep system that you like. I like the innovative DIY options to make it work. DIY is satisfying.
I've never been bothered by drafts when moving around because it's only temporary - when I turn over or readjust I am simply going to tuck myself in again as part of that process. If anything it's kinda refreshing, and I'm warm again within moments. I don't like using pad straps because they pull my quilt flat and actually prevent me from tucking it in around my shoulders.
People get so caught up in new gear when frankly the old gear still works great. My system sleep/tent system is over 5+ years old and still works great! I use a Thermarest NeoAir Xlite 2” pad with a silk Cacoon liner and a 20° UGQ quilt. When sleeping on rock slabs where coldness might seep up I will use my Thermarest Z Lite Sol (cut in 1/2) closed Foam Pad under the air pad for additional warmth. In addition I prefer a freestanding tent, Marmot Tungsten 1P UL, which is warmer and almost eliminates condensation issues. With the vestibule doors closed on most nights at temps in the 20°-40° range I don’t need an insulated hoody or beanie and will occasionally wear a beanie to bed when the temps get below 20°. Works great for me and at a fraction of the cost. Can’t imagine replacing this system given the ridiculous cost of gear today! Buy quality, take care of it, when needed take advantage of the warranties, and quit looking to update something that doesn’t need replacing. I take pride in the fact my old gear still works great!
My sleep system: First, I live down in the heat of the gulf coast, so my need for insulation is nearly nil. Mattress pad: Nemo tensor Pillows: Nemo Filo and cocoon travel pillow. (Broad shoulders. Need both to get enough thickness.) Blanket: Some Ozark Trail blanket. Most nights I only keep it for the weight on me.
I agree with a lot of this video… I use the Zenbivy lite 0 degree, paired with my Nemo tensor pad, and a trekolgy inflatable pillow. The cost versus weight savings from light to ultralight is negligible. My set up definitely gives me the best night of sleep I get in the backcountry.
I prefer my system: Big Agnes Anvil Horn 30-deg Long. 650 fill, so it doesn't pack down as tight as 850 fill. Definitely a volume penalty. But, it's a hybrid between mummy and quilt. It's a mummy, as it's enclosed. But, it's got a big foot box, is roomy, and it's attached to the mattress pad ... so it has some quilt-like benefits. As an active side sleeper, I've never slept better. I add that to a BA Rapide SL in 25 x 78 size (and I'm paying the weight and volume penalty for the long/wide pad). I paid $106.48 for the bag and $119.40 for the pad for a total of $225.88. I use an old Thermarest compressible foam pillow that I've had for over 10 years or an ultralight pillow from Outdoor Vitals that was free as part of promotion he ran last year. Total weight is 4.0 lbs at $225.88. Yeah, I like my value proposition a tad better. I'm not interested in spending $600 to save 1 lb and maybe 1 - 1.5L of pack size.
Mmmm...I love my Zenbivy system. I have the UL-wide with the insulated hood (lovely btw), and I sleep much better now in the backcountry. I use it with the BA Rapide wide pad and the ZB smaller pillow, which is super cozy (I love the down topper). I couldn't sleep with the Neoair and a quilt. I got too cold, and it was just never comfortable. And the sea-to-summit pillow never felt cozy and would always pop out from under my head...... To each their own!
Since my army days 40÷ years ago, I have used a sleeping bag. Wore out my Kelty 20 degree bag will be replacing. Purchased a big agnes rapide at the beginning of last summer very comfortable for a 6'4", 250 side sleeper.
The idea of a sheet keeping the quilt in place looks like it might be a winning idea. However, the whole system looks a bit overly *busy* to me. I still can't bring myself to pack a pillow with me when I've been getting by pretty well with a DCF packing pod stuffed with my puffy jacket, covered with my Buff..... 0 additional grams 😉
Then don’t, that’s the beauty of the system. You can buy as much or as little of it as you want. I personally didn’t get the pillow or mattress, as I’m a stomach sleeper and the pillow is too tall for me to be comfortable, and I already had a Nemo pad
I have the ultralight sheet and pillow system being a side sleeper and needing that extra pillow height is perfect. Like Darwin I go with a different pad but any way you slice and dice all these quilts and sleep systems you’re still paying a premium price. You have to choose what works best for you.
To be fair, my WM sleeping bag is hella expensive, so I am probably north of that 800.00 mark in my sleep system, but that’s just it, my 25 degree WM Terralyte + ZPacks medium stuff sack with fleece lining (pillow) + Big Agnes Rapide SL is lighter then this system.. What’s nice though is my WM bag can be fully unzipped to be an over quilt, or fully zipped to be a SemiRec sleeping bag..best of both worlds and I have had it comfortably down to 15 degrees. Plus it is lighter than this ZB thing that the other guys keep gushing over. I love both the “in the field thoughts of the moment” interjected into your overall review, a very well done and articulate review!!!!
My wife has the 20 degree zenbivy light bed with the insulated hood. She really likes it. Doesn’t get cold anymore. She uses it with a thermarest neo air 25” pad.
9:00 I could be wrong, but I think the down on the pillow is not for insulation as much as it is for the feel of the pillow. My pillow at home doesn't feel like a balloon. I don't want my camp pillow to feel like a balloon. My sleep system is a hammock and my pillow is the Nemo Fillo Elite. It's an inflatable pillow, but it has a layer of cushion on the top so it feels softer.
I had a zenbivvy for about 18 months. Darwin's review is fair. Though for me, I'm not doing the miles so weight isn't a big issue. I have their regular, not ultralight setup. I appreciate being about to buy all the pieces in one place because gear availability is not great in my country and shipping from the USA piece by piece adds significantly to the cost. So, I love mine. I use the quilt on my bed in the winter and keep the bed inflated and leaning against a wall so I can throw it down anywhere in my house for a nap.
Send me that large pillow. It was sold out so I got the regular and wish it was bigger. I am not a thru hiker and sleep on my trips is top priority for me. Finally found comfort with my UL 25 zenbivy and my Light 10 Zenbivy - over a Big Agnes Rapide SL mattress. I can toss and turn (normal for me) and not get drafts. I need a big pillow - and the height from the Zenbivy pillow works for me. I have an enigma quilt and a sleeping bag and always grab one of the Zenbivy sets.
I have pretty the same system as you. What I like? SIMPLICITY…. I use a folding 1/8” pad under my Thermarest, I am quite happy. The entire system packs well, and makes using a smaller pack much more doable. My pillow is a blow up sack for the pad, with my puffy and stuff in it.
A couple of years ago before their UL versions, I bought the light bed reg 25 degree for backpacking in the Sierra summers where I find the high country getting hotter and hotter. Loved it. Mobility and Bare legs on the sheet vs the air mattress was great. I strap it to my xlite which it doesn’t fit well, but works. I also have an ee ten degree quilt which is overkill for me for most situations. Earlier this year I was prepping for my John Muir trail thru hike that I have now just completed. I wanted to get the zenbivey UL 10 degree bed, but cost and other factors made that not feasible. I ended up purchasing the light 1/2 sheet and Ee,s torrid down pants for added warmth if needed and then paired my zen bivey 25 degree quilt with the 1/2 sheet. I also used my Nemo elite pillow. With this system I was never cold and many days it got down into the twenties. I like stuffing my pillow into the non insulated hood. It just stays.
For transparency did you return the product to zenbivy or sell it? If you’re keeping it or selling it how is that not considered somekind of sponsorship / compensation?
I’ve used a ton of sleeping bags, quilts, and all sorts of sleep systems but Zenbivy has been the best by far. For me personally at least. That includes on SAR missions, backpacking trips and car camping trips.
hey darwin , my version of a sheet is , imho, the best period cuz it is sooo versitale. I use a 1 of 2 bag liners . 1 is a cotton/silk mix , very soft lite n well,,,, silky.( Sea 2 Summit ).. the other is the S2S Thermolite Reactor. these 2 r very diff from each other but i LUV BOTH !! so what i do is slip the bag liner over the pad. i strart at the FOOT of the pad so that thhe valve is at the OPEN end of the bag liner !!! Y, cuz IF i want adjust air pressure in pad 4 whatever reaso i can do so with NO issue. my bags/quilts r EE Convert's, a winter & a summer ( if im goig artic 😅 i put the winter into the summer.... that on temp setting so 2 speak, if i put summer into winter thats a diff setting too. But the bag lineer over the pad is VERY comfy 😊❤!!! the liners r versatile 2 cuz i can sleep in or on them. !!! i can sit out of my tent & b in my linner for that bit of xtra warmth ( & bug defense ) !!!! it keps my pad in clean shape 2 !!!! my bags havee pad straps so een as a tosser n turner side sleeper i feaar no drafty voids !!!!!!! my pad is " rated " w a R of 6.5. So, Zen can sell to packer yuppies, i'll stick 2 my own multi sytem !!!!❤😂😅😊. and do u have any idea just how many line options out there ????? holy cow !! andnot just from S2S !!!! the brand Cocoon has there own line up as well as others. look for a liner ur pad will fit into ,duh😅 !. square or mummy,, the liner length does not have to 100% cover the pad either ! especially if u use socks at nite 😊. so u pick pad. u pick bag/s, u pick liner/s, u pick pillow or none, ...... man thats diversity if ever there was !!!! u have budget option also but still SAME set up !!!! eat ur hat Zen !!!!😅😂🎉😊 well ATB Darwin !! hope that put some kick in ur soup lol !!!!!😊
Darwin, I am heavy and bony, and the zenbivy ul sleeping pad is the absolute goat for side sleeping. You just need to pump that bad boi up beyond max air capacity. I found that it keeps me warmer and relieves pressure points. There shouldn’t be any reason that you are feeling the ground when turning.
yeah you never laid on my Naturehike Hikino R8.8. THIS thing ist the goat! 680g in weight, 2meters long, 65cm wide and 12!cm!!!!! thick. you won't find a better one for this price range.
Definitely true that it's all subjective. I could tell immediately with your pre-existing system that you wouldn't be impressed with this. I think you're in the minority of folks who actually enjoy the horizontal baffle structure and air pillow. The quilted pattern is vastly superior in comfort imo. I'm also a turner and side/stomach sleeper and you do bottom out but only if the pad isn't fully inflated. A 4" loft would've been better so you could let a little air out and make it even more comfortable. I don't get the pillow either but the topper was done for comfort more-so than heat retention. The bladder gives it loft, the topper provides more cushion. And the light system is a little heavier than the UL but a decent amount cheaper. I think if you're just starting out backpacking the investment into the light system is one of the best opportunities for a decent night's sleep in the backcountry.
It's true that comfort is so subjective. On the sleeping pad specifically, I sleep on my back and the quilted pattern is much less comfortable than the horizontal baffle for me. It's great that there are so many options to fit individual needs these days, everyone can build a setup that is uniquely comfortable to them!
@@stickybeats Makes sense! Horizontal on average is more comfortable for back sleepers. Or at the least more tolerable for folks that don't toss that much.
Hey Guys. I have never used a zen bivy sheet so I can't say for sure. But i THINK just adding ultra light bivy similar to an MLD super light gives maybe even better draft/warmth performance than then zen bivy sheet. Its around 6 to 7 ounces but is also multiuse. It gives you bug protection, warm, and the ability to cowboy camp with bug protection if the nights are nice. At the same time, I use it instead of an inner net under a pyramid shelter or tarp. Anyway, I like the idea of a zenbivy because I see the benifits of using a regular ultralight bivy, so I like the product. I just think people should consider a full bivy as well.
Great video, great thoughts. I picked one up during the Labor Day sale. No pads available but I see they had one to send you??!! Francine is drowning out any trips this weekend but I should get something done next weekend. I do tend to toss and turn and wake up cold in the middle of the night so maybe it helps.
Appreciate that and it's one of the main reasons to watch your channel. Also, that you always emphasize that it's your opinion and not a definitive answer for everyone. Now, how about an electrolyte (like LMNT) review if that's even possible.
I have the zen bivy, not ultra light , so less expensive and also if you are looking at one, buy it on sale. They have sales quite often and get a significant discount. Never pay retail for anything. The one I have It weighs a little more but is not an issue for me, and it’s far cheaper.
A pillows primary function is comfort, so that's what look at first, and I find the ZB pillow to be much more comfortable than the Sea to Summit aeros. It also looks line they sent you the large pillow? It comes in a more reasonable 'regular' size too.
I purchased the UL 25degree quilt and the insulated sheet recently when they had the Labor Day sale. I bought the UL pad when it was on sale as well. I HATED using traditional quilts and I really enjoyed the zenbivy system but I still would only use a traditional Western Mountaineering Alpinlite for temps around or below freezing. I don’t think the zenbivy is all hype at all but I do think it’s overpriced at the regular retail price.
I love the Thermarest neo Air . I have Same problem with the hips . I have the same pillow also It's perfect for any traveling really. But , I still turn my mummy bags upside down .. and lay on the cold zipper all night .
Regards to your pillow, I have been using the same pillow many years, not quite as many nights, but I have had to replace it 4 times due to leaks/ material break down. I was wondering have you had the same problem or am I doing something wrong? Good review and I agree with your conclusion.
I think I have a pretty unique sleep system. I use a rumpl down blanket, that I got from Sierra for 70$ a seatosummit comfort light si, and a smartwool sleeping bag liner. And sts pillow like Darwin's. As a side sleeper, the si versions of sleep pads with the added foam really help with my boney shoulders and hips. It's worth the weight imo. 😅
Good and fair review. Full disclosure, I've owned a ZenBivy quilt and sheet for close to 5 years, and I love it. I can't speak to the mattress or pillow, but the sheet and quilt combo on a Nemo Tensor XL have given me the best sleep I've had in the backcountry in in 40+ years of camping. I'd buy it again without question. That said, I'm not an ultralight hiker and I understand your critiques of the system in that regard.
I like the idea of draft free sleeping, so I bought a Zenbivy sheet and attached loops to the side of my quilt with tenacious tape. It works great, doesn't weigh that much and my sleep got so much better due to less drafts. The full sheet feels like a real bed and removes the plastic feel of my sleeping pad.
- 2mm cord
- 8 patches
- The loops need to be inside the edge of the quilt by at least 25 cm (=9.84 inch)
- Attach the loops 35cm from the top of the quilt, spaced at 22 cm (=8.66 inch)
@medimalismus Any issues with the fit of the sheet on your pad as opposed to using the Zenbivy pad? If not, what pad are you using?
I really hope that I can rig that sheet up to my perfectly comfortable (4.6R Value 20oz) and affordable ($75) paria xl recharge with the paria 15 degree quilt ($150) that I have been using for the past 5 years!
@@JohnConstantine646I have a zen bivy system and use a Big Agnes Rapides wide pad.
@@mathewu9772 thank you!
Do you use a none zenbivvy quilt? The way you said you attached hoops to your quilt makes me think you are using a different quilt. If so can you tell us or show us how you did it? Because I just bought a nemo tensor extreme and a UGQ outlaw 0 degree bag but I want to pair that system with a zenbivvy sheet.
Thanks for the review. I bought the ZB half sheet, put it over my 25” Uber lite pad and attached 8 DCF patches with loops(zpack) to my EE 20*. Took it on the pct this year for the whole season and it worked and continues to work great. Price of half sheet and DCF patches at the time was under $100.
Do you have a video showing the patches and hoops? I'm wanting to do the same thing with my ugq quilt. I just bought a nemo tensor extreme and the egq outlaw and will plan on buying a zenbivvy sheet but I want my quilt to buckle into the sheet like you are talking about.
I found the perfect solution for me: I bought the Sheet only and I have sewed the loops for the sheet to my existing 6 years old down quilt. Works very well and costs me like nothing more than the Sheet.
I had thought about it. Where do you get the loop?
@@zzww9483 I have used Shock Cord, it works very well
Great example of why gear has a personal preference dimension. Having been a ZenBivy user for several years, and upgrading to the UL version I find it simply fantastic for me. Best sleep ever. Too bad Darwin didn’t try the pillow but if what he uses works great for him that’s fine. I thought long and hard about the weight of the pillow but tried it because the air pillows I’ve tried are not comfortable at all. Love this pillow, better than the one I have at home. As for the hood, it has to be below freezing to use it, it does keep the pillow in place and that contributes to the overall sleep experience for me. The pad; I really like the new one and find it very comfortable- I’m also a side sleeper who moves around a lot. I did upgrade while it was on sale and that makes the price more reasonable in my opinion- the list price is a bit steep but I sleep so well and that has value.
My wife and I have the lite beds in the 10f and we were able to buy narrower pads because an overlooked benefit of the sheet is that it cradles your arms preventing them from slipping off. Gotta factor that into the weight savings calculations plus I was able to merge the two into a puffy plush dream monster by simply connecting the loops on the inner meeting seams with some cut up pieces of rubberized gear ties. Bypassed having to permanently disfugure our quilts to achieve something similar with tape or other adhesives. I can't fathom how you'd do that with a revelation with fewer connection points along the perimeter without tape or sewing. Another plus for biv, marvelous for couples.
I switched to Zen Bivy about 2 years ago. Love the hood mostly to keep my pillow in place. For that reason the uninsulated hood is optimal for me. It is not available on the ultra light, but the fast foot box on the other quilts is amazing as well. another thing you did not touch on is their compression sacks. They have a 1 way valve that lets you really crank down on them and make these quilts super small for fitting in your pack with very little effort. I just got an ultralight 25. I dont like it AS much, but it is still great, and helps me get my pack under target weight when I know I need to carry extra water or food. I also really appreciate their al a cart purchasing, and their customer service is extremely good.
I do use a zenbivy. I have the old sheet that was full length but got the new ultralight quilt recently. It is actually just the right thing for me and I have tried a lot of bag and quilt options. I toss and turn all night and even with pad straps would find quilts leaving me exposed on one side and freezing. The side fabric and loops kept me from making a mess of things and I actually sleep through the night now which I never thought would be possible. I agree with the hood, useless except as a pillow barn. I don't own the pad, but use the sheet with my long/wide thermarest neo-topo (my luxury item 4 inch mattress). Also agree the pillow is extra. I have use mine and it is lovely, but I could get by with my nemo fillo elite. Great review love that you show that new (well marketed) gear is not always an improvement, especially over gear you have that works!
Thanks for a great review, Darwin. I’ve been using the ZenBivy system for about 6 years. I’ve got both the 10 and 25 degree quilts and an uninsulated sheet. I tried a traditional quilt and didn’t like the drafts when I tossed and turned. The side baffles are what continue to sell the ZB for me. I use a ThermARest pad and Sea To Summit pillow. My ZenBivy is one of my favorite 3 pieces of gear.
My Zenbivy has changed my whole backcountry experience!
Instead of 'the sheet' you can use a sleeping bag liner but use it on the outside to keep your quilt or bag tucked - for winter hiking in Scotland I always carry two liners. Thermal one for inside the bag and a lighter one to put the quilt inside. Toasty!! : )
Doesn't that compress the loft of your quilt?
@@deKampeerwijzer No, just holds it snuggly in place around your body and stops it slipping off. Doesn't really compress the quilt to any great extent.
Excellent idea!
Excellent idea!
I also have the same quilt you have, $460, a Thermarest Xtherm pad bought used for $150, and a Sea-to Summit pillow for $60. Total $670 and completely satisfied.
I’m glad you raised the issue of the country of manufacture. Products made in the USA, or in Europe, are not necessarily more expensive than products made in Asia, despite much higher labor costs.
Why are so many other youtuber using it? Agressive marketing and free gear!
Because it is the most freaking comfortable sleep you’ll ever get on trail. Period. That’s why.
Yep, zenbivy and outdoor vitals. Not saying it's bad gear but, man, it's a lot
I came from a Sierra Designs Back Country Bed. Knowing its creator is the creator of the zen bivy, lets me know its next for me! For me, it is the creator and his theory. My back country bed is almost 15yrs old now.
The best honest review of the Zen Bivvy that I saw. Thanks Darwin I own and Enigma and Bandit quilts as well and like them lots. I am primarily a hammock camper so I would never consider the Zen Bivvy anyways
Agree with you. Was never convinced of the ZenBivy system.
Ahhhhhh I literally just tried mine last night in the chilly British country side. Loved it!
Fair review, for sure! I have the Zenbivy sheet and the 25 quilt. I've had them for 30 nights on trail so far, a little over a year. Unlike you, I LOVE the hood! It keeps my pillow from sliding around, which was a major cause of lost sleep in the past. I use a Nemo Tensor pad and a smaller inflatable pillow. For convenience I leave my quilt attached to one side of the sheet and leave the other side open. This system has definitely improved my sleeping on trail. I might get that pillow (that you didn't like!) since I still find myself missing the loft.
I have to say I like sleeping bags. I'd happily sleep in one all the time.
The Sea to Summit Pillows are the bomb.
Loved the vid...
I have the zenbivy 15 degree light bed and love it for car camping. I did not purchase the pillow nor the insulated hood for the same reasons as your vid. I just went with the basic sheet with no regrets. I use my 20 inch Xtherm for my sleep pad and works great.
For backpacking I use the EE Revelation 20 degree custom quilt with my Xtherm when tent camping.
when using my hammock I use the UGQ quilt sets.
I get to call Oregon my home and it truly makes me happy to hear you speak highly of our beloved mountain. I'm glad you see the beauty in it like I do.
When you said cocoon that song came into my head. Great content by the way. Binge worthy channel which in todays age of blah is refreshing. Well done!
Just went through this exact same process with the same comparable gear. What I ended up doing is keeping only the UL sheet and putting some Zpacks stackable loops on my Enigma. Pair it with my pad and my pillow and I get a much better system at only 2.7 ounces more allowing me to move more freely without the drafts. I’m 6’5” and 260, straps just aren’t enough.
I was actually thinking about doing the same. May I ask which loops you have used as zpacks is offering several different type of loops. Thanks.
I use the zenbivy quilt, occasionally the sheet on colder nights. Hate their pad, use the sea to summit ether something. And a thermarest compression pillow. And I’ve never had better sleep in the back country. It’s a mix and match for me
Thanks for the info. Why haven't any of the US quilt companies come out with a matching sheet?
If you are a backpacker that really spends a lot of time out there and have the money, why not. For me, it looks like a gimmick. When it's warm, I unzip my mummy bag and use it like a quilt. When it's cold I zip up till only my nose sticks out. I use a trusty old z fold with a light air mattress on top. I never wake up on the ground and have a little seat while around camp. Total cost, about 90 dollars counting the duck down bag.
Good to see you back doing gear reviews. As I've aged my major challenge is sleeping pads. I'm happy with the other parts of my sleep system and even have a "sheet" should I decide I need one. Like you, I'm tall and boney. The longer I walk the boney-er I get. Do I really need to spend a day napping at REI to see if the next sleeping mat will insulate and protect my hips and knees?
Appreciate the review & comparisons.
My goto for many years has been a WM Summerlite 30F sleeping bag, 19oz, $505 and Zlite Sol CCF pad at 15oz, $60. Total 34oz (2lb 2oz), $565. I recently posted a video on other Big 3/4 systems. More recently I'm using 1/8" pad &/or Reflectix as a pad. My priority is simplicity.
As someone who tends to sleep hot, and also bring a quilt/pad much warmer than I need (because I only have one quilt and my winter pad is lighter than my summer one) I find the sheet makes a massive difference in my sleep comfort. I just made one with about $30 of materials from a Joann's. Just stitch a pocket on one end for the pad and stitch a sleeve for some cord to tie the bottom end to the pad. Not as ultralight but well worth the weight for the extra comfort I get.
Check out the Rock Front Ultralight 350 with sheet that the quilt zips onto.
Darwin, if you want to go back and review the sleeping pad. The designer went on Dan Becker's channel and said you kind of have to almost over inflate it to take advantage of the top material's ability to stretch but not let you hit the ground. Dan had the same problem before as well bc he didnt inflate it enough per intended design.
I just returned from two back to back trips in Wyoming using the zen bivy 10 degree UL quilt and sheet system. I used it in conjunction with the newest Nemo Tensor insulated pad and stayed very warm despite below freezing temps, thunderstorms, snow and hail. I agree that I often put my pillow on top of the hood for comfort reasons. My biggest complaint was the white color. I know it seems silly, but I dealt with a lot of dirt, debris and muddy conditions for several days and the white quilt ended up showing everything. Even small dirt and sand on my tent floor would stick with static to the white quilt despite shaking it out in the fresh air each morning. Ideally, I could set up and take down my camp in dry conditions, but nothing about either of my trips into the Tetons and the Wind River Range was ideal. No matter how careful I was, the quilt showed more dirt and use than I've ever noticed on my other quilts. I've already made arrangements to have it cleaned by eClean, just because I don't want to store it dirty. I wish Zen Bivy would've used a different color for the quilt or provided a choice. As for performance, I was very pleased.
@LMay64 why can’t a person launder the sheet themselves? Or are you having the quilt cleaned by clean?
@@wanttogo1958 I'm only having eClean clean the white 10 degree quilt. We had lots of thunderstorms and mud and the white color was the worst. I really want to see if they can get the white fabric back to new. In the future, I may use my borah bivy over the top just to protect the white fabric. I washed my dcf tent in the bathtub and water ran black for at least three rinses (The floor is not dcf in tarptent tents). The zen bivy sheets are very easy to hand wash in a sink. I also had a 20 degree quilt that hadn't been cleaned in a couple of years, so I sent that in too as I think it helps get body oils out of the down.
@@LMay64just curious why did you choose the white sheet over the black and red? I know me and white anything is pretty much a non-starter.
Side sleeper here, but don’t hit the ground as mentioned, just gotta give the pad one or two more puffs so it holds better. That makes the pad more stiff but I think it’s better for my body/back to be more stiff than on the softer side. Also the waffle baffles are the way to go for pressure relief as a side sleeper, other pads will make my arms/shoulders go numb. I’m 6’2 and weigh 175pounds, Eastern Sierra weekend warrior, weight, qualify and simplicity are my big 3. I wouldn’t mind trying just the sheet out and sewing some loops onto my current quilt to make it work. I use a Sea to Summit Either Lite XT pad in women’s long, as women’s has a bit better R-value than the men’s yet smaller and lighter because of the shape, don’t need the square or wider top half as a side sleeper. Super comfy pad. Have a customer EE 20f quilt, 950 fill. Still exploring pillow combinations, but seems that the small Therms Rest Compressible pillow is the winner, a bit heavy and big but worth it, I throw my pants and ass pad under the head area of my sleeping pad to raise my head a bit higher.
I have been extremely happy with my Thermarest Questsar bag, Sea to Summit Aeros UL pillow and Thermarest Pro Plus pad. They have never let me down.
I’ve used the Zenbivy system (sheet and quilt) and I love it. I love the hood because it’s not as constrictive as a sleeping bag. It’s very versatile. That said, I love my Revelation quilt and wouldn’t say the Zenbivy system is so much better.
Can’t wait to try out their ultralight pad. I’ve been using the same pad as you’re using and while it’s light, it keeps me warm, the comfort is meh. I have sore hips, which is something I don’t have with the BA Rapide SL or S2M Ether light for instance. They’re not as warm though which is why I’m still looking for comfortable alternatives that also keep me warm.
Keep making more videos, they stoke me up to go hiking and kayaking.
I got the light sheet on sale and use magnetic clips from Amazon that fit the sheet hooks, then attach the magnets to my quilt. Works like a charm, and only adds about 3.5 oz to my kit.
Here's a cottage gear idea: sell a set of fitted sheets and top sheet with elastic straps/clips to fit over any brand of sleep pad. Offer them for 22", 25", thin & thick pads from major brands. Watch the dollars roll in...maybe.
I’m a little late to the comment party but if you carefully read how the down in the Zenbivy quilt is treated (ExpaDRY) you will find that it should perform better in bad situations and long term. Also it’s just more cozy to sleep under with the sheet. As far as the pillow goes.. if you’re a side sleeper (which you said you were) with wide shoulders like I have, the tall height of the pillow is the best. Lastly the pad… What no one communicates is that for that pad to be comfortable for side sleeping and for warmth it has to be blown up very firm and tight. Ask me how I know 😂
You shouldn’t be afraid to give it another try.
Love my UGQ Bandit 20 deg & use use one pad strap. My favorite piece of gear - great to crawl into at night after a long day on the trail. Has never let me down over 4+ years of use. Also use the X-Lite - no complaints but I have to be a little particular in how much I inflate it.
Always appreciate the honest reviews darwin!
Good for you for reviewing this product well. Your passion is showing and it blows those day packers opinions wide open. They’re YES MEN, keep this up Darwin! See ya out there, on the Collegiate Loop now 👍🏼
Really good down to earth review Darwin, you make so much good sense to us- thanks for this! 🌱🍄👍
I have the Zenbivy Light bed and really like the side hook/loops when it's cool and windy because it really does help keep the draft out after you toss and turn at night. It kept me warm at the rated temperature so happy with that, and not as restrictive as a sleeping bag; I sleep really well with the system. I do like the hood when it's cold, but when it's not cold it's not useful. I haven't tried their pad or their pillow. That said, I've not used a lot of other quilts so if you're really trying to count those grams then another system might be more ideal. I'm considering an Enlightened Equipment quilt for next time.
I toss and turn a lot, and for that, the Zenbivvy sheet with the quilt is far superior to anything else I have used over the years. It gives me a sense of freedom and cosiness, I find uniquely comfortable. I also turn the hood backwards over the sleeping pad as I don't need it. I agree the pillow seems overkill, and I will stick with the pillow I already have. As I already had the Nemo Tensor with an R 5.4 value, I didn't buy the Zenbivy pad. All in all, my combination works just fine.
I have always been curious about this. I well sleep similar to your setup. I really did enjoy the quality/ cost perspective versus Domestic and Foreign manufacturing. That was a solid review. Thanks, Dude!
Great video. I love my UGQ quilt. Always though the pricing from Zenbivy was a bit on the high end. If someone wants a sheet take a super lightweight liner and put it over the pad. And if you want to go a step further get some silicone magnetic cable ties and MacGyver your own Zenbivy version.
I also like the idea of draft free sleeping, so I bought a sleeping bag. Of course, as you say, the down compresses under my body, so I bought the same sleeping pad you use with your quilt.
When it's warm out, I pull the head of my sleeping bag out of its stuff sack and drape it over my upper body, much like a quilt. As it gets colder, more of the bag comes out of the sack, more of my body gets covered, until my feet go into the bag, and ultimately the bag gets zipped. I can find no advantage of a quilt over a bag.
Bought the Zen Bivy and just sold my EE 20 quilt. Sleeping comfortably is worth a little more weight.
I agree on the pad for sure I went for the Exped Ultra 5R wide pad. The ultra light sheet and the light quilt are what I got from zenbivy. I also went for the same Sea To Summit pillow.
I totally agree with you on every point for 3 season trekking. I use the Insulated Nemo Tensor pad. It works for my bony hips, and the first gen "OV" blow up pillow for years now. Works for me.
BTW, interesting to hear about your Tri background. I raced back in the day when Lance A. and Mark Allen were competing. Worked, lived, and played in Boulder.
I have to say I really like my ZenBivy set up. I just sleep a lot better which is worth a lot to me. I have the light bed system and got it on sale so it was pretty cheap but also not as light as the UL system. I only bought the sheet and quilt and used my existing REI pad and trekology pillow. Love it so much. But I’m also not thru hiking.
I have the ultralight mattress and I like it as a back sleeper. The quilted pattern is the most comfortable for me. If you are a side sleeper, you have to blow it up all the way to not hit the ground.
Since you can use any pad or pillow with the zenbivy you should just compare the Enigma to the ZB's quilt + sheet. The Enigma you spec is 1lb 5oz and costs $460, while the ZB is 1lb 6oz and costs $540. So basically the ZB is 4% heavier and 17% more expensive for a superior attachment system. depending on your priorities either eems reasonable.
what magic prevents you from using ZB quilt alone without a sheet? The comparison of quilts alone is absolutely legit
@@МихаилРусин-ы1о nothing other than the quilt's hooks are designed to attach to the sheet's loops, but I'm sure you could jury rig something without the sheet, of just use it like a blanket, which is what I do most of the time.
I have been curious about the Zenbivy UL system. But, I have curated a backpacking sleep system that works well for me in temps at or above 30°F.
- Sleeping bag: Big Agnes Sidewinder SL 20 Women’s in regular.
- Sleeping pad: Nemo Tensor Alpine Insulated in long-wide (there wasn’t a regular-wide available in the Alpine Insulated version).
- Pillows:
1. Exped Mega Pillow (with shock cord attached for fastening to the sleeping pad).
2. Trekology Aluft 2.0 Pillow with pad strap.
I sleep on my side and need extra head height (for reasons), so I attach the Exped pillow to the pad and then the Trekology pillow to the Exped pillow…stacked.)
Sounds like you can get sheet to use with the other parts of your sleep system that you like. I like the innovative DIY options to make it work. DIY is satisfying.
I just got the zenbivy quilt and sheet. I also have the Nemo tensor with a sea to summit pillow. Best sleep I’ve ever had in the backcountry.
I've never been bothered by drafts when moving around because it's only temporary - when I turn over or readjust I am simply going to tuck myself in again as part of that process. If anything it's kinda refreshing, and I'm warm again within moments. I don't like using pad straps because they pull my quilt flat and actually prevent me from tucking it in around my shoulders.
People get so caught up in new gear when frankly the old gear still works great. My system sleep/tent system is over 5+ years old and still works great! I use a Thermarest NeoAir Xlite 2” pad with a silk Cacoon liner and a 20° UGQ quilt. When sleeping on rock slabs where coldness might seep up I will use my Thermarest Z Lite Sol (cut in 1/2) closed Foam Pad under the air pad for additional warmth. In addition I prefer a freestanding tent, Marmot Tungsten 1P UL, which is warmer and almost eliminates condensation issues. With the vestibule doors closed on most nights at temps in the 20°-40° range I don’t need an insulated hoody or beanie and will occasionally wear a beanie to bed when the temps get below 20°. Works great for me and at a fraction of the cost. Can’t imagine replacing this system given the ridiculous cost of gear today! Buy quality, take care of it, when needed take advantage of the warranties, and quit looking to update something that doesn’t need replacing. I take pride in the fact my old gear still works great!
My sleep system:
First, I live down in the heat of the gulf coast, so my need for insulation is nearly nil.
Mattress pad: Nemo tensor
Pillows: Nemo Filo and cocoon travel pillow. (Broad shoulders. Need both to get enough thickness.)
Blanket: Some Ozark Trail blanket. Most nights I only keep it for the weight on me.
I agree with a lot of this video… I use the Zenbivy lite 0 degree, paired with my Nemo tensor pad, and a trekolgy inflatable pillow. The cost versus weight savings from light to ultralight is negligible. My set up definitely gives me the best night of sleep I get in the backcountry.
I prefer my system: Big Agnes Anvil Horn 30-deg Long. 650 fill, so it doesn't pack down as tight as 850 fill. Definitely a volume penalty. But, it's a hybrid between mummy and quilt. It's a mummy, as it's enclosed. But, it's got a big foot box, is roomy, and it's attached to the mattress pad ... so it has some quilt-like benefits. As an active side sleeper, I've never slept better.
I add that to a BA Rapide SL in 25 x 78 size (and I'm paying the weight and volume penalty for the long/wide pad). I paid $106.48 for the bag and $119.40 for the pad for a total of $225.88. I use an old Thermarest compressible foam pillow that I've had for over 10 years or an ultralight pillow from Outdoor Vitals that was free as part of promotion he ran last year.
Total weight is 4.0 lbs at $225.88. Yeah, I like my value proposition a tad better. I'm not interested in spending $600 to save 1 lb and maybe 1 - 1.5L of pack size.
Mmmm...I love my Zenbivy system. I have the UL-wide with the insulated hood (lovely btw), and I sleep much better now in the backcountry. I use it with the BA Rapide wide pad and the ZB smaller pillow, which is super cozy (I love the down topper).
I couldn't sleep with the Neoair and a quilt. I got too cold, and it was just never comfortable. And the sea-to-summit pillow never felt cozy and would always pop out from under my head......
To each their own!
I've been running Nemo all season + ee revelation, with good results. Still deciding on a pillow!
Since my army days 40÷ years ago, I have used a sleeping bag. Wore out my Kelty 20 degree bag will be replacing. Purchased a big agnes rapide at the beginning of last summer very comfortable for a 6'4", 250 side sleeper.
You can use any pad. I have a neoair and the Zenbivy sheet and bag and love it.
The idea of a sheet keeping the quilt in place looks like it might be a winning idea. However, the whole system looks a bit overly *busy* to me. I still can't bring myself to pack a pillow with me when I've been getting by pretty well with a DCF packing pod stuffed with my puffy jacket, covered with my Buff..... 0 additional grams 😉
Then don’t, that’s the beauty of the system. You can buy as much or as little of it as you want. I personally didn’t get the pillow or mattress, as I’m a stomach sleeper and the pillow is too tall for me to be comfortable, and I already had a Nemo pad
Yeah I skipped the pillow and even went heavier with the 10° zippered system, (I go out in Alaska backcountry) and it's a dream honestly I love it!!
I have the ultralight sheet and pillow system being a side sleeper and needing that extra pillow height is perfect. Like Darwin I go with a different pad but any way you slice and dice all these quilts and sleep systems you’re still paying a premium price. You have to choose what works best for you.
I use an Outdoor Vitals pillow, a UGQ XL Bandit 20 degree custom quilt, and a thermarest regular wide sleeping pad with a 1/8” foam pad underneath.
To be fair, my WM sleeping bag is hella expensive, so I am probably north of that 800.00 mark in my sleep system, but that’s just it, my 25 degree WM Terralyte + ZPacks medium stuff sack with fleece lining (pillow) + Big Agnes Rapide SL is lighter then this system.. What’s nice though is my WM bag can be fully unzipped to be an over quilt, or fully zipped to be a SemiRec sleeping bag..best of both worlds and I have had it comfortably down to 15 degrees. Plus it is lighter than this ZB thing that the other guys keep gushing over. I love both the “in the field thoughts of the moment” interjected into your overall review, a very well done and articulate review!!!!
My wife has the 20 degree zenbivy light bed with the insulated hood. She really likes it. Doesn’t get cold anymore. She uses it with a thermarest neo air 25” pad.
10 degree
9:00 I could be wrong, but I think the down on the pillow is not for insulation as much as it is for the feel of the pillow. My pillow at home doesn't feel like a balloon. I don't want my camp pillow to feel like a balloon.
My sleep system is a hammock and my pillow is the Nemo Fillo Elite. It's an inflatable pillow, but it has a layer of cushion on the top so it feels softer.
Spot on. On the Zen Bivy sight the down topper says nothing about insulation and only mentions getting that at home feel.
I had a zenbivvy for about 18 months. Darwin's review is fair. Though for me, I'm not doing the miles so weight isn't a big issue. I have their regular, not ultralight setup. I appreciate being about to buy all the pieces in one place because gear availability is not great in my country and shipping from the USA piece by piece adds significantly to the cost. So, I love mine. I use the quilt on my bed in the winter and keep the bed inflated and leaning against a wall so I can throw it down anywhere in my house for a nap.
Send me that large pillow. It was sold out so I got the regular and wish it was bigger. I am not a thru hiker and sleep on my trips is top priority for me. Finally found comfort with my UL 25 zenbivy and my Light 10 Zenbivy - over a Big Agnes Rapide SL mattress. I can toss and turn (normal for me) and not get drafts. I need a big pillow - and the height from the Zenbivy pillow works for me. I have an enigma quilt and a sleeping bag and always grab one of the Zenbivy sets.
I have pretty the same system as you. What I like?
SIMPLICITY…. I use a folding 1/8” pad under my Thermarest, I am quite happy. The entire system packs well, and makes using a smaller pack much more doable. My pillow is a blow up sack for the pad, with my puffy and stuff in it.
A couple of years ago before their UL versions, I bought the light bed reg 25 degree for backpacking in the Sierra summers where I find the high country getting hotter and hotter. Loved it. Mobility and Bare legs on the sheet vs the air mattress was great. I strap it to my xlite which it doesn’t fit well, but works. I also have an ee ten degree quilt which is overkill for me for most situations. Earlier this year I was prepping for my John Muir trail thru hike that I have now just completed. I wanted to get the zenbivey UL 10 degree bed, but cost and other factors made that not feasible. I ended up purchasing the light 1/2 sheet and Ee,s torrid down pants for added warmth if needed and then paired my zen bivey 25 degree quilt with the 1/2 sheet. I also used my Nemo elite pillow. With this system I was never cold and many days it got down into the twenties. I like stuffing my pillow into the non insulated hood. It just stays.
For transparency did you return the product to zenbivy or sell it? If you’re keeping it or selling it how is that not considered somekind of sponsorship / compensation?
I’ve used a ton of sleeping bags, quilts, and all sorts of sleep systems but Zenbivy has been the best by far. For me personally at least. That includes on SAR missions, backpacking trips and car camping trips.
Their last sale was 30% off. You dont have to pay full price.
you don't have to pay anything! just wait until they go #2 and swoop in and take what you want 😂
Xlite $200, Thermorest pillow$45, since I do some hammock camping I have the Warbonnet Diamond Back, $350 Great quilt!
hey darwin ,
my version of a sheet is , imho, the best period cuz it is sooo versitale. I use a 1 of 2 bag liners . 1 is a cotton/silk mix , very soft lite n well,,,, silky.( Sea 2 Summit ).. the other is the S2S Thermolite Reactor. these 2 r very diff from each other but i LUV BOTH !! so what i do is slip the bag liner over the pad. i strart at the FOOT of the pad so that thhe valve is at the OPEN end of the bag liner !!! Y, cuz IF i want adjust air pressure in pad 4 whatever reaso i can do so with NO issue. my bags/quilts r EE Convert's, a winter & a summer ( if im goig artic 😅 i put the winter into the summer.... that on temp setting so 2 speak, if i put summer into winter thats a diff setting too. But the bag lineer over the pad is VERY comfy 😊❤!!! the liners r versatile 2 cuz i can sleep in or on them. !!! i can sit out of my tent & b in my linner for that bit of xtra warmth ( & bug defense ) !!!! it keps my pad in clean shape 2 !!!! my bags havee pad straps so een as a tosser n turner side sleeper i feaar no drafty voids !!!!!!! my pad is " rated " w a R of 6.5. So, Zen can sell to packer yuppies, i'll stick 2 my own multi sytem !!!!❤😂😅😊. and do u have any idea just how many line options out there ????? holy cow !! andnot just from S2S !!!! the brand Cocoon has there own line up as well as others. look for a liner ur pad will fit into ,duh😅 !. square or mummy,, the liner length does not have to 100% cover the pad either ! especially if u use socks at nite 😊. so u pick pad. u pick bag/s, u pick liner/s, u pick pillow or none, ...... man thats diversity if ever there was !!!! u have budget option also but still SAME set up !!!! eat ur hat Zen !!!!😅😂🎉😊
well ATB Darwin !! hope that put some kick in ur soup lol !!!!!😊
Darwin, I am heavy and bony, and the zenbivy ul sleeping pad is the absolute goat for side sleeping. You just need to pump that bad boi up beyond max air capacity. I found that it keeps me warmer and relieves pressure points. There shouldn’t be any reason that you are feeling the ground when turning.
yeah you never laid on my Naturehike Hikino R8.8.
THIS thing ist the goat! 680g in weight, 2meters long, 65cm wide and 12!cm!!!!! thick.
you won't find a better one for this price range.
Definitely true that it's all subjective. I could tell immediately with your pre-existing system that you wouldn't be impressed with this. I think you're in the minority of folks who actually enjoy the horizontal baffle structure and air pillow. The quilted pattern is vastly superior in comfort imo. I'm also a turner and side/stomach sleeper and you do bottom out but only if the pad isn't fully inflated. A 4" loft would've been better so you could let a little air out and make it even more comfortable. I don't get the pillow either but the topper was done for comfort more-so than heat retention. The bladder gives it loft, the topper provides more cushion. And the light system is a little heavier than the UL but a decent amount cheaper. I think if you're just starting out backpacking the investment into the light system is one of the best opportunities for a decent night's sleep in the backcountry.
It's true that comfort is so subjective. On the sleeping pad specifically, I sleep on my back and the quilted pattern is much less comfortable than the horizontal baffle for me. It's great that there are so many options to fit individual needs these days, everyone can build a setup that is uniquely comfortable to them!
@@stickybeats Makes sense! Horizontal on average is more comfortable for back sleepers. Or at the least more tolerable for folks that don't toss that much.
Can your EE quilt really get down to a lower temperature?
Is it comfort rated?
Hey Guys. I have never used a zen bivy sheet so I can't say for sure. But i THINK just adding ultra light bivy similar to an MLD super light gives maybe even better draft/warmth performance than then zen bivy sheet. Its around 6 to 7 ounces but is also multiuse. It gives you bug protection, warm, and the ability to cowboy camp with bug protection if the nights are nice. At the same time, I use it instead of an inner net under a pyramid shelter or tarp.
Anyway, I like the idea of a zenbivy because I see the benifits of using a regular ultralight bivy, so I like the product. I just think people should consider a full bivy as well.
Great video, great thoughts. I picked one up during the Labor Day sale. No pads available but I see they had one to send you??!! Francine is drowning out any trips this weekend but I should get something done next weekend. I do tend to toss and turn and wake up cold in the middle of the night so maybe it helps.
Finally a more balanced review!
I like to look at gear from all angles & always be neutral/logical with my thoughts
Appreciate that and it's one of the main reasons to watch your channel. Also, that you always emphasize that it's your opinion and not a definitive answer for everyone. Now, how about an electrolyte (like LMNT) review if that's even possible.
I have the zen bivy, not ultra light , so less expensive and also if you are looking at one, buy it on sale. They have sales quite often and get a significant discount. Never pay retail for anything. The one I have It weighs a little more but is not an issue for me, and it’s far cheaper.
So that's all I have to do.. Email them and say send me one for testing? Pretty generous of them.
A pillows primary function is comfort, so that's what look at first, and I find the ZB pillow to be much more comfortable than the Sea to Summit aeros. It also looks line they sent you the large pillow? It comes in a more reasonable 'regular' size too.
I purchased the UL 25degree quilt and the insulated sheet recently when they had the Labor Day sale. I bought the UL pad when it was on sale as well. I HATED using traditional quilts and I really enjoyed the zenbivy system but I still would only use a traditional Western Mountaineering Alpinlite for temps around or below freezing. I don’t think the zenbivy is all hype at all but I do think it’s overpriced at the regular retail price.
Recently bought the paria version for less than half of zens Heading to canyonlands soon to test it out
hmmm... Never tried any of their stuff. Have a great time out there!
@@DarwinOnthetrail so far just their tents and poles. 100 dollar gear that takes a beating
I love the Thermarest neo Air . I have Same problem with the hips . I have the same pillow also It's perfect for any traveling really. But , I still turn my mummy bags upside down .. and lay on the cold zipper all night .
Great video. Always love your mannerisms and enunciation. They really make the video a Darwin video.
Regards to your pillow, I have been using the same pillow many years, not quite as many nights, but I have had to replace it 4 times due to leaks/ material break down. I was wondering have you had the same problem or am I doing something wrong?
Good review and I agree with your conclusion.
Great summary and conclusion.
I think I have a pretty unique sleep system.
I use a rumpl down blanket, that I got from Sierra for 70$ a seatosummit comfort light si, and a smartwool sleeping bag liner. And sts pillow like Darwin's.
As a side sleeper, the si versions of sleep pads with the added foam really help with my boney shoulders and hips. It's worth the weight imo. 😅
I have the XL synthetic quilt $119 ? and the regular sheet. I really liked it. I had my own mattress. i cannot use down because of allergies.
Great review, was considering it, thanks for saving me (also a side sleeper, kinda boney lol)
love my zen Bivy, but i use my own pad.. big agnes.. i have had my system for 3 or 4 years... also use my own pillow system
I have the zenbivy corebed. I love it. I am using the big Agnus air core ultra and love it. Would aI switch. If I had the money, maybe.