A King In Trouble - 6024 - Shap 1999
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- GWR King no.6024 seen in the northern fells in 1999. A heavy train and steaming problems forced the train to slow to a stand just after the first shot near Scotsman's Bridge, Greenholme and enabled a quick run to Scout Green to grab a hand held shot there. Further slow progress allowed a third shot just after Shap summit. Great enginemans skills allowed 6024 to recover well from a couple of nasty slips at Scout Green.
The loco redeemed itself on the return south setting one of the fastest times in preservation for the climb to Shap Summit.
well a great video, and some discussion, comments 2 years after the event, but that's good for the videographers , I probably wouldn't have noticed this if the new format of you tube had not occurred, and what splendid action I missed, much appreciated, cheers.
Ab Fab Austin as usual. Particular praise for braving the Shap elements to get this.
It just goes to show LMS locos beat the rest easily on this type of terrain, when you see the Duke & Duchess flatten Shap like it wasn't there!
Hugh
Magnificent video. I miss the days of steam. I used to watch the New York Central Hudsons blast by on the right of way 1/4 miles from my house pulling passenger cars in the early Fifties. Thanks again.
Quite agree with that Gerry, I'm sure that the majority of enthusiasts have a great deal of respect for the work of the footplate crews. I think the crew on this day did tremendously well to get her restarted on the bank just as the crew of 6201 did last November in getting her restarted on Wilpshire Bank with very difficult rail conditions. You must have a good few tales to tell with those years of experience
Tornado now holds the fastest point to point up Shap (and Ais Gill) ,but I'd like to see a King over the northern banks again one day. Doubt any loco would take the record off Tornado, but it's great to see these giants of steam making an all out effort to do so. Great video.
Thank you for watching. It would be good to see the King up north again in the future. As we saw with Earl of Mount Edgcumbe, with correct handling GW locos can make an impression over the hills
A wonderful little movie - again showing expert craftmanship on the engine - with your long and steep hills and ridiculously long trains .... Sorry for my language, but I am a flatland danish and I just love your way of using your antiquated but very beautiful steam lokomotives. Keep going, please! Thank you so much!
Thanks for your kind comments. I'm pleased you enjoy our steam locomotives as much as we do here in the UK
Many thanks for posting. Always good to see Swindon's finest even if they are having a hard time, all credit to the crews.
Thanks very much, believe it or not I am a GWR fan too and have had several good runs behind 6024. I saw a comment on a forum suggesting that Tyseley should be sorting the coal lump by lump for the Earls run!!
nice vid, its still good to see days like these no matter who gets in the way, im glad we still have classic steam & has to be said diesel, MUCH better than todays 43s and pendalinos etc, im annoyed i missed sir nigel on the tynsider out of newcastle because of snow, will get a few of these next year with cam for sure, brilliant days and thanks to the uploaders who share their vids with us
As a footplate man in the midland from 1948 to 1993, have worked on these loco, as a fireman& driver, must agree, with multiirchard007,
Gerrylocodriver
Some of the comments show just how little many people understand about driving and firing a steam engine. They should either keep their comments to themselves or go and talk to the crews who man mainline tours. Hats off to the crew for doing such magnificent job on a steep and tricky ascent in challenging conditions.
Thanks Leon, many opinions offered as to what happened on that day. I just consider myself fortunate to have been able to go and film the events, we'll never really know what happened
Top marks to the locomen getting out of that one ! Great footage.
They did a tremendous job as I don't think the crew at that time would have been too familiar with the technique required to get the best out of a GW loco. I'd love to see the King get another chance over Shap. Many thanks for watching
@@acw71000 It was my pleasure to watch. I'm on board with your channel after that one. I'm 78, retired living north of Barcelona and have been a huge aficionado of steam for years apart from also being a member of the 46201 preservation society. Thanks for taking time out to respond to my comment. Appreciated.
Quite agree with you. Of course I would have been happier if the chap hadn't stood where he did but a lot of folk came up to Scout Green from other locations to get the extra shot when they realised the train had slowed to a stand. It was that sort of day when space was at a premium. These days I have no bother, as you say ask nicely and people are happy to accomodate you.
Just noticed, also great comments,
you learn something every day!
From a GWR local.
The GWR King Class Locos were magnificent. Still get a thrill out of watching them. What is it all about ? They are just machines.
Indeed, fine locos that did sterling work for many years
It is truly amazing how camcorders video quality has improved in our hobby since the early days!
Isn't it just. Mind you, you can only use the equipment of the time and we were happy with this kind of quality back then
Very true! When I look back at my early recordings i cringe sometimes but it was wonderful to have a live video facility of your own to take just what you wanted! It still is!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it, I agree, the engineer deserves all the praise
I have a 5” gauge live steam model of King Edward IV .........Club members queue up to drive it. Fabulous locos.
They certainly are, your model sounds wonderful. I'm looking forward to the return of the King to the mainline
Thanks very much, the crew did so well to keep her on the move
Thanks Steve, funny how the weather hasn't changed much on Shap from 1999!
What a great video. My heart went out to the crew they did a fantastic job getting over he top
One of the best video i have seen on RUclips. That Engineer have skills. Hats off to him. lol!!
Yes certainly a lot of lessons learnt on the Network , and still being learnt for insatnce the OC blowback recently while under a pilot diesel
On another note, hats off for filming up there, must have been freezing in the wind and rain. What a bleak desolate place
Thanks very much for your kind comments. I can picture the sight and sound in my mind of those Hudsons you describe. They obviously left an impression and left you with some great memories
Absolutely brilliant Austin, and more so bearing in mind the conditions you filmed in. However I went up the S&C behind the King in 1998, and travelled up all the way from South Wales to see her on her first run over Ais Gill, and I was totally embarrassed. She developed a hole in the smoke box door on my run behind her, and the Ais Gill shot is not worth a mention to a GWR fan. Lets hope the boys at Tyseley do it with 5043..that wouls be magical...5* Bob
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it, hope you can get out in 2011 and catch a few yourself. Happy New Year.
merci pour ses belles prises de vues!
Cheers Si, I think the Earl will be o.k as Vintage Trains usually operate with a sensible load...it'll be great to hear a Castle's roar in the fells, we want a dry day, no wind and not too warm!!
Thanks, I love that raw power of a steam loco working hard
Fantastic camera work, thanks!
And fantastic driving keeping her going too. Secens we'er unlikely to see again with weezles stuck on the back nowerdays
Thank you, it was a shame about the problems on that day but she came through in the end.
Boy does that thing slip in the second clip! Awesome sound, great footage.
Great shot there austin i can't beleive u were able to run round it from greenholme to scout green to shap astonishing!
Nice one, you can almost feel the tension the driver must have had just watching it, Well I could 5*
Thank you, it would be good to see the King tackle Shap again. With a good crew and sensible load I don't think there would be a problem this time
Thank you, the crew did such a great job that day. I'm quite certain that a King could make a fine run over Shap given the right handling, you only have to look at the performances from 'Earl of Mount Edgcumbe'
I think pound for steam has more low end torque than diesel any day. I experienced this when riding on the R&eER up to fells in Cumbria.
Thanks very much, the driver really did so well but must have had a few panic moments!!
Excellent compilation 5* - The final shot should have a sub title "redemption!". Us ex GWR fans don't like to be reminded of less than sparkling performances in the North. Bob Masterman will be after you! LOL! I think Earl of Mount Edgcumbe is due over Shap shortly. Let's hope she brings her own anthracite! - Mike
I do hope we get the chance to see one of the Kings again on Shap, as you say with a sensible load it would be so much different this time than in 1999
Thank Matt, the driver did really well didn't he. Wouldn't mind getting three shots on Shap in a day now though!!
Having fired engines myself, but not of this class, I think that you take for granted just how difficult it can be to keep traction on inclines, particularly if the rails are damp or wet from rain. These engines are enormously powerful with a great deal of torque available, and without any form of traction control, it is very easy to get wheel slip. Maybe you should have a go yourself one day and see just how difficult maintaining traction can be. I think this crew did bloody well, personally.
They certainly did - trying to keep 40,000 lbs tractive effort under control in those conditions - what's more, those episodes of wheel slip, reaching virtual speeds of over 70 mph can tear a hole in the fire, which is probably not bedded with the best coal either - so credit is jointly shared between driver and fireman. It is not the loco crew's fault - it is more matter of maximising revenue - well, if you put 12 on in those conditions, you can't be surprised if this is the outcome - maybe not such gripping adhesion here, but nevertheless gripping stuff to watch
Thanks very much
Thanks, it is getting more difficult as more and more people are filming these days. Railway enthusiasts mostly obey an unwritten rule and stand in a line, it tends to become more difficult when non enthusiasts who may be passing by stop to take a photo. As manners get worse and worse, the problem grows
Thanks very much for your comments, glad you enjoyed the video.
Thanks, great work by the driver to keep her on the move.
Thank you, I'm not sure about the availability of the Welsh steam coal but I think the modern day crews are are more used to handling Western locos than when the video was filmed and are able to get the best out of them
Lovely footage of the King Austin, great to see a Great Western tackling shap too... Will be interesting to see how 5043 does in a few weeks :)
Si
Thanks, yes it's not usually possible to get that many shots so we were really lucky that the King was struggling a bit
5* Excellent video and nicely put together.
They certainly did on a day when so many things conspired against them, heavy train, greasy rails and poor coal. All our engine crews are so very experienced, full credit to them
Many thanks Bob, I was on one of the southbound S&C trips, possibly the one you came up for, which as you say, was disappointing. I have enjoyed a good rub behind her on the Torbay Express though. I think 5043 will be o.k. and should restore some pride to the GWR.
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed it.
Quality driver! He has a knack for when the loco starts to slip, catching it (most of the time) before the slip becomes bad enough to (try to) close the regulator. Plenty of steam so Mr Riddles' modifications have once again saved the day. Nice clean exhaust so coal's OK, just too many coaches for the available DBHP.
It's a difficult one, it is a class 8 and they can easily develop ~2000HP at the drawbar. Maybe it's the fact that it doesn't have the reserve of what a pacific would have, or is it simply bad coal.
@@merlinlandzend698 I don't think it was lacking in power, more lacking in adhesion. Too heavy a train for the weight of the loco in horrid wet conditions.
I would of thought with the king having a much superior grip on the rails in comparison to the pacific that adhesion wouldn't of been the issue. I thought all GWR engines were designed to run of Welsh coal which has a high caloriic value. But there again I've seen videos of Castles taking 11 coaches over the same spot at a much greater speed. Who knows?
All abit too much for her at Scout Green. But she packed a wallop at Plumpton and Shap! Still got some unique footages of her very rare trip to the north!
Thanks Hugh, it's horses for courses really with the different locos. A King would never have gone up the Devon banks for example with this size load. The Duchesse's were built to haul heavy trains over Shap. About time 71000 stopped pootling up and down branch lines I reckon!!
Please excuse my ingorance but is it not dangerous to have all that steam under and around the high voltage power cables? Would it be possible for the electricity to be conducted onto the locomotive by the steam and water vapor?
Thank you very much, I'm pleased you enjoyed the video
Thanks, it was a tough day for loco and crew,(not to mention the intrepid photographer in the rain and wind!!!)
@MrPnisHead Steam is dry, and non-conductive. Also, pure water (free of contaminants) is not a conductor. With steam locomotives under wires, the heat of the furnace can melt the wires if the locomotive spins for too long in one place.
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed it, I wonder if we will see her on Shap once more to redeem herself.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
I think as well now the crews know how to handle GW locos a lot better, 5043, for example has put in some superb performances over Shap and the S & C. I suspect that on this day in 1999 steam didn't have many friends in high places!
Quite true re the pilot. Poor coal was a problem for this run and I think the train was maybe one coach too many. I reckon she could do as well as 5043 on Shap with a good crew who understand GWR locos.
Thanks for your very useful information.
Great video, that slipping is amazing!
As far as I know there have not been any instances of crews getting shocks from the overhead power supply. Many locos, including 6024, have been cut down in height to allow them to work safely under the wires. I suppose in theory something could happen but to the best of my knowledge hasn't yet!
Fantastic!!! thx.
Thanks for your comments. I'd give anything for a time machine that would take me back to the time before the electrification of the line and the M6 too as the constant drone of traffic is always heard.
Thanks, your comments are correct but don't forget the Kings were not really built for climbing those sort of hills and GW engines need correct coal and driving and firing techniques.
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it
@cleenol i meant where do they mend them in the UK-i am from the UK myself. I wonder if they do it up in crewe or darlington...i know tornado has had repairs done at Hither Green
Quite agree, the Earl has shown what can be done with the right crew and firing technique. I have a feeling that the 6024 people would relish another bite at Shap but they would have to make the load sensible as Vintage Trains do.
I love all things Great Western, symbolises a time when there was a pride in everything that is lacking nowadays. I must admit to a sneaky liking for 37's and 47's though!
Merci Denis, très apprécié
I suspect he was concentrating very hard on keeping the strange beast under control!!
Search and watch this mate you will not be disapointed. 6024 King Edward I hauling 'The Bristolian' to London Paddington
An excellent video. Interested in the comments about those that stand in front of the camera. I have mountains of useless clips and destroyed film because of that - in fact, the discarded clips will make a really comical video!
The originator of this film is obviously a right 'anorak'. Although he is a great knowledge about names on trains, I expect he has absolutely zero experience of driving them Despite hauling 12 coaches up a notoriously difficult incline, this King class locomotive was NOT brought to a stand-still as he so proudly tells us, but with great skill the driver kept the loco going despite 2 serious losses of traction. Get up there yerself, mate, and show us how it is done, if you are such an expert!
I think he means (camera) shot......love the Kings, Castles etc, I used to spot at Reading Junction 1958-60 - well I was only 13!
As he said, excellent throttle management by the driver/engineer.
6024 is a 'King' class locomtive, built by the Great Western Railway in 1930
You can tell by the smoke that the firemans firing on dust, which is probably the main cause of the problems.
good to see the loco trying!
does it hav a loco on the back? and if so why didnt they get tht loco to give it a helping push??
45305 I think it was last year that took a heavy load over Shap with poor rail conditions. I think it would be interesting to see 6024 have another try sometime as I feel crews now are able to get the best out of GW locos on Shap and the S & C. The great performances of 5043 are a great example.
Cheers, glad you enjoyed it.
I certainly don't say it was anything to do with the loco, I'm a GWR fan and well aware of the problems on that day
A King. The King of locomotives. 12 on, 350 - 400 tons?, on Shap. Well done that Driver and Fireman. Firing rate, 2-3 tons per hour? If only today's prisoners had to work as hard as that! Watching the film brought tears (of joy) to my eyes.
Has anybody noticed how today's trains are so much shorter and passengers complain about overcrowding or having to stand? Just add more carriages. Simples. :-)
YES, I am nostalgic and I don't care.
@quatfro . Yes, you're right, you may hear the extremely leaky cylinder gland (at 05:33 much louder than the exhaust). No wonder the engine had problems.
Feel for the crew, appaling rail conditions and wind adding to the drag and obvious issues with the coal makes for a tricky climb. These days, there is ususaly a 66 weasel on the back to ensure the paths are not blocked. Bet there was a procession of Virgins backed up behind at the end of the climb!!
Yes indeed. I usually film at Shap Wells these days as you can hide the wires a bit better. I would have loved to have filmed up there prior to the motorway and electrification. Ivo Peters to name but one photographer had some fine shots on cine film from Shap in the '60's
Cracking video ,,, great locations
Thanks very much, I don't expect ever again to get three shots before Shap summit!
Good shooting - enjoyed that!
Not too sure why I need to 'get over myself' as I certainly don't imply in the video description or comments that the guy had no right to be there. A lot of people came to Scout Green last minute, as I did, from a previous location and when I started shooting he wasn't there. With a camera mounted on your right shoulder and looking through a viewfinder at the train it was only when I panned I saw he had come alongside me. I decided not to edit him out as the final loco slip would have to go too.
@acw71000 I read your inverted commas around 'enthusiast' as saying that, if he were a real enthusiast, he'd have avoided standing in 'your' space. But if that's not what you meant, fair enough. A lot of people with cameras seem to think that they have priority over everyone else so it's good to see that you're not one of them.
I don't actually tell you 'proudly' the King had to come to a stand, but that is what happened on the day whether you like it or not. If you actually read my comments above you will note that credit is justifiably given to the skills of the enginemen and also the comments from other viewers and my replies acknowledge this too. No claim is made by myself to be any kind of expert, I just enjoy filming and travelling on trains
No there was no diesel on the back of this tour, that's a relatively recent introduction on steam tours. I think if the crew hadn't been able to get her restarted they would have had to call for a diesel to come, probably from Carnforth to give a helping shove.
A very good video I could feel for the engine!!
@MrPnisHead it should be ok. Its no more dangerous than if it was raining. Its a lot of voltage but I dont think its enough to make it dangerous unless you had metal contact or touched the wire while grounded.
I might be wrong though. Anyone know of footplate crews getting shocks?