What will it take to bring stability to Haiti on the brink of civil war?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- In Haiti's capital, vigilantes armed with machetes and stones are fighting against the gangs that dominate Port-au-Prince, amidst a fuel crisis and worsening hunger. As the country teeters on the brink of civil war, what will it take to restore stability?
Guests:
Judes Jonathas
Deputy Director of Programmes at Mercy Corps
Jemima Pierre
African-American Studies Professor at the University of California
Monique Clesca
Haitian Journalist and Civil Society Activist
Brian Concannon
Institute for Justice and Democracy Board Member in Haiti
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That’s good the citizens have finally started fighting those gang members. Get rid of them.
This is the same treatment we need in Jamaica
And in the USA
Agree this should be allowed everywhere
How do you know they were gang members? Because the people burning them said so? Is this 2023?
Bwa Kale 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥. This is a second revolution, we don't need the international community to help. Let us do our thing
Non Haïti needs the international community, a proper UN force can work aside the police because this is just gonna end in senseless bloodshed.
A needed 2nd revolution
Unfortunately it has to be against our own rotten people first...then the rotten terrorists known as the economic class 😒
@@Mecduhall91a bloodshed gave you 1804....remember that 😒
Go heal to Stockholm syndrome
@@Mecduhall91 We've seen that movie before. We don't need them trust me. Go do your research....
@@Mecduhall91 bro the UN raped a shitload of people last time they went to Haiti, if they come back ever again they are getting machete'd right next to the gang members.
The government nor the international community are doing anything to help them. People are fed up and I can’t blame them!
That's what Americans should do at the southern border
Well they kicked out the French and now they need foreign help.
@@mannybudhu3905 they needed to kick out the French, especially because of slavery. Jamaicans did the same.
The French put Haiti into debt, making them pay millions in reparations for freeing their own people
international community didn't help them? Lol you don't know what you're talking about.
@@mannybudhu3905 lol can't believe someone can be so ignorant and stu-pid
IT IS NOT A CIVIL WAR,
IT'S THE POPULATION VS THE GANGS
You see how they keep on repeating that sh8 too
Bwa kale pou tout gwoup teroris 🩴👞🎩
A civil war is when two or more factions (each can have their own forms of government, internally at least) engage in armed conflict to maintain or take control of a government. THis is essentially civilians forming militias to restore order, while gangs are trying to maintain control of whatever system they have going to extort the civilian population (In most wars, those willing to fight tend to occupy a third standard deviation on each end of the bell curve, "freeriders" and "selfless givers", while their supporters tend to occupy the 2nd-to-3rd standard deviation on each end. This can vary depending on circumstances, and depending on who wins, this determines whether freeloader ethics gradually kills off givers over time via attrition and violence, or if givers deny the freeloaders opportunities to reproduce biologically or memetically by jailing or killing them in turn. THe longer an ethic survives, the longer it persists, in a feedback loop, because in a worst case scenario, less and less people will be innately wired for agency, or the inverse: more and more will develop agency and high-trust behaviors). One can argue that this conflict in particular may not be a full-scaled conflict, but a low intensity conflict instead (It is an actual term), but this is indeed approaching civil war territory. Not like it's a bad thing in this case though. Without a functioning government, a group must be able to insure their physical security and the ability to develop their resources and commons *somehow*, So vigilantism (like the 2nd Amendment) isn't really a bad thing either (as much as the press would like to tell you otherwise)
But then again, can someone be called a vigilante (one who takes law into their own hands without the sanction of a government) if the current government practically doesn't exist?
Well, that is a textbook definition of a "civil war" don't you know?
DID YOU CALL IT A CIVIL WAR WHEN THE USA TRY TO ELIMINATE THE MS13 GANGS?
DID YOU CALL IT A CIVIL WAR WHEN THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT DECLARED THE (HELL ANGELS A IS A ILLEGAL ARM GROUP?
exactly. a civil war means two governments fighting over one country. haiti has zero governments.
No trouble-makers = No problems
It's that simple.
Some of this treatment we need in Jamaica
United, we stand, divided we fall.
Im very happy for them. Alot of other countries could learn a lesson from this.
few other countries have problems this bad, this is an insane, desperate solution for desperate people driven to insanity by terror. few other people would ever need to go to this length to keep their neighborhoods safe. we are talking full-scale collapse of law and order.
Love the well spoken lady towards the end, and how she put things in proper context
Thank you
I feel for those people trying to survive and take back their country from criminals and gang violence. It’s sad they have to police themselves but I hope the people win and snuff out the people ruining their lives.
🇭🇹 Haiti needs a personality of Nayib Bukele's leadership skills, let them consult El Salvador 🇸🇻 and how it's solving it's problems.
Boom
Exactly...they need Bukele style leadership.
Haiti needs a president like Nayib Bukele . . Bwa kale tonton pou gangs yo frem .
el salvadore had a strong government to carry out those crackdowns, haiti's problem is that the government fell apart. what soldiers, police, etc are going to actually carry out these mass arrests?
The word "civil war" is too strong. A civil war is a internal war between two groups geographically located, vying for control of the government. For example, we cannot say that the US was in a civil war when he was getting rid of Pretty Boy Floyd, Bonnie & Clyde, Ma Baker, etc...
This is simply the Sovereign retaking His rights from the representative government which is supposed to represent the people's interests.
What will it take to bring stability? Let the process run its course and flush out the thousands of gangs (the number is not infinite). No need for international interference since they make things only worse.
Im so proud of these people.
Can someone tell me why they seem so on the fence about calling some members of the community vigilantes? At 20:18 she literally gives the definition of what a vigilante is. "A member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.". I don't think it is a bad thing to call them vigilantes. That's just what it is called and I think it is a good thing that the citizens are finally fighting for themselves. Just trying to understand.
@@charlesgentry5655 you're alright man?
@@onyangoonyango5611 Keep smoking all that copium
The entire story as us the country is gross. Funny how they are now mimicking South African apartheid terrorists. But they are good people, right?
I believe the term vigilante has negative connotations. Sometimes vigilantes are sometimes citizens who take matters into their own hands without doing the proper police work. They sometimes attack innocent people who they assume to be perpetrators. Sometimes vigilantes are just violent, narcissistic overzealous people who claim they want law and order, but really want to hurt people.
Think of people like the Bernie Getz in NYC in the 1980's. Think of George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin case.
vigilantes are bad, not having vigilantes when they are NEEDED is worse. it's bad if there is a working system and people are still vigilantes needlessly, that is NOT the situation in haiti.
The whole community needs to stand up to those cowards.❤
Such great courage by these 3 Especially Jeanna Piere
We All Need GOD❤️🙏 JESUS CHRIST ❤️ Is The Only One That Can Saves Us🙏
People will stand up if pushed to the point.
Like our USA ???? When is ENOUGH BE ENOUGH ? Like them running away to invade our USA !
The people are stupid unfortunately.
Haiti we black people never learn,politicians created this hell they are nowhere to solve, where is the army
Bwa kaleeeeeeeee, stand for your rights gangs must learn lessons!!!
It's heart breaking and very sad for me to see the world witness bloodshed after bloodshed in the streets of Haiti while we all know this is all coming from a destroyed diplomatic country to being controlled by bad political system
I support Jamila Pierre, They are trying to blind the people, by focusing on gangs,and not dealing with the real issues in Haiti.
Someone is behind these gangs it make sense sellout gangs to help take over the land for somebody who wants it.
Need peace for Haiti :Too many people dying,children need food, water,peace ,housing ....
At this point a giant meteor.
Please My Brothers And Sisters ❤️ Put Your Trust Into The Lord Not Into Man Or No Other Countries Only GOD Can Do What We Need Done🙏Pray And Believe We Have To Live And Give The Lord Our Life And Let He Do What He Say He Would ...Only He Can Do The Miracles Among My People ❤️🙏The Devil Is A Liar killing A Gang Member Or Killing A Innocent Citizen None Of It Is Good Let GOD Deal With It We Don't Need That Blood On Our Hands ❤️We Need To Love GOD And Love Each Other🙏 Everything Else Will Falls In Place Automatically 🙏
These people are BIG part of the problem. They are incapable of helping so long as they wilfully misdiagnose the problem.
20:01 Be sure. Here's the definition of vigilante group. Precisely what you described 😆
Vigilante Group: a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.
Exactly 😂😂
When Haiti start naming the names of the millionnaires/billionaires who are taking advantage of the country, they will start the process of development. We "don't understand" the problem in Haiti because we don't have names attached to the corruption in the country. No names/no progress
Theres something special and good things to Haiti why it is not peaceful!. Haitians must unite!
Oh please
20 years from now this country will still be the same! Sad😢
America need to help 🇭🇹. One of the ways to help Haiti is to have the Us Government come in and take control of this country. I would bring in African Americans to the country with the help of the American government to establish the government. You can do this by bringing businesses and infrastructure to haiti. We can learn from them and they from us. Have black banks and our black hbcu’s come in and help financially and educationally. Then we can have relationships with Jamaica 🇯🇲, the 🇧🇸, 🇹🇹, Grenadines together. Form relationships with the African Union also with trade partners. African Americans have a 1.6 trillion gdp which would help. We need each other.
Why? Aren't you guys blaming Western imperialism/colonialism that brought you there? Now you need the west to bail you out?
Its not just about race, build a safe space for any culture or ethnic group.
@@estrangedsavant5112 what’s wrong with what I
said, let me guess nothing. This will be unity, plus America has problem with China with imports/exports. Instead of going to China, take those jobs to 🇭🇹. America 🇺🇸 will have a closer partnership that will benefit them in the long run. It will help African Americans because of the problems we have had in America. It helps the haitians because it will bring infrastructure and needed jobs to the island.
@@carltonpadgett6848 what's wrong is Haiti needs to multinational support. African American/black support is only one Avenue. Haiti needs foreign aid to elimate the gang problem, new leadership aware of local customs and power structures, foreign aid for infrastructure, and an initial strong military presence to deter insurrection and protect foreign Investments permenantly. I'd suggest a foreign peacekeeping force that would also work alongside and train local Hatian forces.
@@estrangedsavant5112 I hear what you saying, but as of right now nobody is helping 🇭🇹 and that’s honestly. The reason I say America intervening is because they want America 🇺🇸 to get involve. Right now there are businesses in Haiti that is owned by African Americans and they are thriving as we speak. If the UN 🇺🇳 wanted to get involved they would’ve already. I also have Haitians friend in America as well as in Haiti and they would welcome this ideal. Plus Im not just speaking of America or African Americans. I also said Jamaica, 🇹🇹 Bahamas and 🇬🇩 Belize 🇧🇿 with the African Union. That’s not one avenue that’s multiple avenues.
Bwa kale tonton
For absolutely each person living under the Ten Commandments ....Logical......Very Simple......Yes we have reached that time.....Or suffer from stupid evils🙏 💞 ♥️
Haiti....lord pls help them and guide them.....what happen to our world today...lots of tension and aggression between two big military country and now civil war and now this one ....what a war... terrorist and people against the government.... Myanmar,haiti ,sudan , UKRAINE AND RUSSIAN WAR ., and now chinas aggression towards SOUTH EAST ASIAN claiming territories!!!!! Taiwan and china, north koea to south Korea, USA expanding edca in the Philippines again because of aggressiveness of chinas claim ... Japan, Philippines and USA will do tripartite alliance in the west pH sea....
Take a good look, this is what lawlessness looks like.
The French should just return Haitis money that they paid the French for their freedom. Then the country can move forward.
oh i see this is the Frances fault
@@jonnym4670 if you’re white you’ll say this
The country is too corrupt, the money would just be taken.
@@jonnym4670 it’s 100% France fault they stole ppl brought them to a stolen island using them as slaves, to create wealth for the country of France,
the slave fought back due to the horrific torture enslave ppl endured & the French government was like because we lost money on the people we exploited
and the enslaved people decided to fight for their freedom,
France solution was, were going to make the people, France exploited to paid the country back
for many generations which helped France economy to created wealth & the French government didn’t once say hey u know what Haiti stop paying us back
cause that deal we made shouldn’t have been made since France plans was to exploit human beings.
@@jonnym4670 France stole rich minerals from Haiti & enslaved ppl were the ones who was forced to work in horrific conditions & treatments so those countries can have their wealth
stop thinking as if that money was only created for that era the money generated for France bleeds into many generations.
No countries should even ask for Haiti to pay back a debt that was created since there ancestors decided to fight against being human trafficked.
From Antigua and Barbuda with Love Let us look back in His-Story not His-Story I recall when Claude Devaluire Babe Doc family led Haiti the Government of France America Canada support the Criminal Establishment Peace came to Haiti under Bertrand Aristede He was Kidnapped and remove from Haiti and we have seen the distruction
End the reparation payments from their war for independence.
Scarcity leads to a scared city.
Exactly
They already have stopped.
@@maxmillianwiegel1643 might want to look into that a bit more..
@@benjaminduval6054 I’ve been looking around. The last debt paid to France was in the 1940s. If you could direct me to a source that implicates otherwise, please do so.
@@maxmillianwiegel1643 you assume the deal with France with the be all end all. That specific deal ended in 1940, but basically just refinanced under a difference sovereign holder.
Cancel some debt here, add some debt there. End of the day, they’re not able to keep enough what they have, and that will cripple any country.
“Haitians are able to establish democracy, given the chance”. I would say so, given that they had the first democracy in post contact North America. However, I don’t trust the “international community” or the UN. Maybe we should focus on cutting off the funds of any oligarchs (most likely western) funding the gangs before we agree to another military intervention, since those tend not to go well.
They had a democracy for like two seconds
They didn’t have a democracy before the U.S. they declared independence in the 1790s, we had done so in 1776 and again in the 1780s.
@Passchen -Fail How do you have Democracy with slaves??🧐 Haiti had Democracy before the US.
Democracy doesn't exist
We alls need to takes action. against these manners before to later
What the Hell!! What the Hell!! Going on in Haiti Shooting each other Killing each other Embrassment Black People 2023 no!! No!! Progress Embrassment!!😢😢😢
Listen color skin doesn't matter this is good versus evil.
The devil isn't hiding anymore.
Blessings for my haitian people ..so the big question is who is supplying these gangs with all those weapons..Haiti have so much guns they are selling gun to Jamaica an other carribbean countries
ARM THE COMMONER!
What will it take? People turning against corruption and gangs, that is what it takes. Also the people it self has to stop corrupt ways, corruption in Haiti penetrates all levels of the society after all.
Haiti is a sesspool. Just crazy, being fought by the craziest
We’ve intervened in Haiti militarily twice, sent aid workers many more time, and given them multiple billions. If they don’t help themselves, it won’t stick, just like it hasn’t done so yet.
How about just leave them on their own and let them figure it out. If the UN is the issue get the UN out and let Haiti figure it out.
Long overdue.
No one can give them the order they so desire, not even their own government, and not even by their own people. Bad ideas and maladaptive figments in their culture will be rooted out only when they earn freedom and prosperity for themselves, only when they are put to the test through adversarial competition. People want to help them, but this only gives them the excuse to blame others and refuse to grow, same basic thing with many of our own cities that have been brought to ruin via monolithic parasitic organizations, their political machines, and the dependencies thrust upon them, all while telling their constituents that another faction is irredeemably evil, is out to get them and is the source of all their woes. It's best we leave them to their devices. They will adapt, or they will die, and it would have been deserved.
That’s a lot of five dollar words. I wrote a thesis for a degree at an honors university and I can barely tell why you’re putting it in that way. You make a better case when you speak simply
Some serious intercession
THUGS might be thugs, and in most instances they are loved by their own families and friends, perhaps up to wanting retribution for their just summary execution, but I sincerely doubt that the proportion of thugs executed by citizens standing their ground will be a sizable constituency on which to sustain a civil war, unless the gangs and the political establishment were one-and-the-same-thing.
Hopefully, the people of Haiti will keep their common-sense, even their faith, and endure just a little bit more, even as some mistakes might be plausibly be made in the execution of justice by the vigilantes.
Sadly if you look at the demographics of haiti, you can tell most of them dont have families. The country is simply too young.
the innocents hurt by the people pale in comparison to what the gangs have done. it's monstrous but this is absolutely Necessary if haiti is ever going to be free.
Hopefully things get better there. God help Haiti. And also some other Caribbean countries because of Haiti's situation too. I have visited other Caribbean countries and are amazed and saddened. The country Haiti really needs to turn to God. It needs the people to take care of it and love it. They destroyed their forest, and now are in other countries trying to do the same thing, and more. That place doesn't just have problems, it has a problem that is directly the fact that the people need to change their way of thinking. The world may not know this, but the rest of the Caribbean that is dealing with the great burden of the weight of immigration, knows it. People have absolutely no idea what some countries in the Caribbean are going through from Haiti's problems, from Haitians. Losing their own forest to them. They are sneaking into these countries, taking land, building illegally boldly, destroying the forest, great violent crimes by them, gangs in used to be places of peace, overcrowding Hospitals especially by deliberately getting pregnant to stay, becoming aggressive to the people, practicing voodoo, even trying to take over places. Basically, trying to make other places Haiti too. It is very bad, and Governments are trying desperately to figure out what to do about them. Health care is suffering in these countries because of Haitians. They even go to the US claiming to be people of these countries, saying they are from there and are not, watch out for people who say that they are Bahamians especially, rarely they are from there or family are not. People are basically risking losing their country under them. Yes, there is mercy for them, but when it comes to Haiti, there needs to be great mercy for the rest of the world. But thank God they are beginning to fight back, God be with them.
After Haitians elected a local politician as president for the first time, Americans came to remove him.
Americans used agent orange and napalm to destroy the sugar cane and rice crops. Past President
Clinton said his only regret as president is seeing rice from his home state being sold to Haitians.
The rest of the world would joyfully pay for a wall around the United States if it kept Americans in.
Sounds like something that's happening in the Bahamas.
So none of their problema are their own fault? Ok
It's Insidious corruption in the government and it's happening here in the USA too.
The system is broken is CORRUPT and it's permeated with lies and hypocrisy. I'm not sure where we'll go from here or if the wannabe dictator & company are going to relinquish their authoritarian power to ANYONE !! You may think I'm overreacting but wait and see.
Haiti's a rough neighborhood, always has been.
Let the locals do what they need to do
Caribbean armies need to go there now
A bunch of Jordan Neely’s would have been able to right Haiti. In a few days
Colis, louer le grand président Bukele au El Salvador, pour nettoyer ton pais!
Exactly
FIGHT BACK ‼️ STOP PLAYIN NICE WITH THESE PEOPLE AND DEFEND YOUR HOMES OR PERISH 😢 THEY'RE DELETING YOU ANYWAY.WE SHOULD "JUMP EM"❤️
So if you want the international community to go...then that also means you want international funding to go as well...be prepared to receive no money from anyone and stand on your own feet.
Hati tried to come over here and they beat them back access the water. But they letting them mexico ones in here
True...Biden sent the Haitians back to Haiti but want votes from black people.
We're is they army
Haiti; too many people without productive work or stability or enforcement of law. Is this similar to Portland or Chicago?
You’re very ignorant
Yes
We need charities to donate to haiti 🇭🇹 money cloths and food
Why, its a waste of time.
@Graham T so is Ukraine then.
GUNS LOTS OF GUNS AND BOMBS
Charities will keep majority of the money for themselves
@@grahamt5924 Ukraine in Israel is a waste as well, giving millions to them for what?
I feel Haiti 🇭🇹
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 russia need more land ?
Incompetent leadership
You can either live in fear, be robbed, raped, bullied, beaten, and killed by the gangs, or you can band together with other residents, rise up and eliminate the gangs. No on else is going to help you.
Webee we helped them how many times?
Muy bien ya era hora
25,000 Haitians at US borders.
There is no one to ratify the PM. Arming the gangs isn't as recent as the 80s though... Papa Doc did the same did the same although his were more organized and an instrument of terror....
Point of correction Ariel Henry is not someone the Ayitiens want.
why is there no visual?
Wtf are you talking about
I see a black screen and can only hear the audio. I can view other videos here and don't suppose it's an internet connection issue.
Does the country have the army?
No
Haití has become the real life Arkham city.
The same thing will happen in the United
States.
As the black population grows, this will inevitably happen.
@@grahamt5924dvmb allegation grow up
@@3li.mp339 Is it dumb? You have to wonder why the gang issues in the hood wouldn't spread more with more population.
@@grahamt5924 makes me wonder how over 60% of mass murders are white in the USA
@@grahamt5924 The Black population isn’t growing.
It's time for the gangs to go, the people tired not it's they time
They're returning to a tribal level of civilization. They can't sustain a modern one.
Sad! Hatit will kill each other till last man standing. The leaders of the world will not help them.
Jemima real spoken her husband must be proud
8:30: Fake, empty boxes blown away by the wind.
😂
No responsibility for haitians own failures !
Exactly Haiti is a hot mess. They can’t run that country.
I know where I’m not going on vacation.
Arm the people.
After watching this, I am convinced Haiti is doomed. Your guests simply engaged in the age-old Haitian pastime of claiming "everything is a foreigner's fault".
Anybody who tries to help is simply going to get hatred and scorn in return. Far better to just ignore the place, and let them find their own way.
I agree tell all the foreigners to gtfo of Haiti because every time they come and “help” it just seems like they’re putting the Haitians back further and further so yeah I agree leave Haiti alone and let them fix it and while we’re at it tell France to stop demanding reparations after THEY enslaved us. Keep pretending like the politicians in Haiti aren’t destroying the country in favor of the west keep thinking that is hatred and you call us “professional victims” gtfoh 😂😂😂😂😂😂 bozos
Thank you blame everyone but yourselves this guests don’t seem to understand it doesn’t matter whether it’s democracy or dictatorship the country doesn’t have capacity to enforce rule of law that’s the core problem here
Freedom for the children of Levi aka Ayiti. Kingdom of Judah from Ouidah Benin. Christ shall redeem and deliver his people.
Democracy is a lie of Europe.
We need unify all 12 tribes the descendants of slavery and colonization to awake the people.
Thank you atleast I’m not the only one that knows this for some reason I can’t pass the port of Nigeria
Cultural problem!
Civil war?? Who are the antagonists??
The citizens fighting the gangs.
Please come to America we have lots of room and plenty of work also.
Hahaahahahaha wait long long. If there is there so many homeless ?
No! Stay there and fight!
@@tankman20064 you won't see Mexican or refugees homeless only euroamericans and Patriots Everybody else is working.
Let US, Canada, France leave Haitiana alone.
Food water stable government
EUROPEANS TO LEAVE THEM ALONE THATS WHAT IT WILL TAKE
What about the army?
The army is corrupt
The salvadorian solution.
A 3 megaton thermonuclear bomb. There you go, you're welcome.
Jesus is ling
relax, this is wakanda now!!!
The UK will be like this soon.
In the 1980s the and before there was no gangs😂