your testing line inn not mic-preamps? I think fostex would win hands down as its very clean and sounds very like true analogue like my Sony Pro walkman but with no hiss.
Every new digital recorder it sound a little bit more digital than the "Golden standart". The sound industry want to get more gain, but this cut the sound, the sound it's not natural and hot like sound from 70-s and 80-s, even from 90-s. More gain it doesn't mean more quality sound or more natural sound. In opinion Fostex FR-2LE offer very good clean natural sound for dialogs and can be used very well, still keep something from 90-s. Sennheiser MKH416 is unique high grade sharp mic, but it's made for hight end film industry and broadcast TV, which used analogue technique to record sound. This is the key, how you will record the sound ? But when you record sound with digital recorder you never can get this hot sound from 80-s, something more Sound Devices preamp are great, but also are very strong and sharp preamps. For that reason the best choice combination from : - sharp mic like Sennheiser MKH416, 8060, Schoeps, also Rode NT4 - strong preamp like Sound devices 302, 442 - hot natural sound from NAGRA LB,Tascam HD-P2(very nice low cost recorder with natural sound, required strong preamps), Fostex FR2, FR2LE and delicate sound from Maranz PMD661, which is great for classic concerts, unmatched for deep natural sound recorder Korg MR-1000. Those who wants to touch nature sound, which is so missing in digital era I will strongly recommended mics Sanken CS1,CS3e and unique natural CS5, last one it's a little bit noise, but absolutely can be cultivated with good preamps. Also my dissapointed why amazing sound from Korg MR-1000 didn't make breakthrough in digital era and every new recorder give us more "digital sound" sound, but take away us from natural recording. King Regards, Dincho Krastev film director
Thank you! I've got two Fostex FR-2LEs after watching this video. They are perfect recorders especially using Tamiya RC battery or just AC/DC power supply. Looks like they are recording at a little bit different speed. And I wonder how to replace the internal RTC battery in the future...
Hi Roland, I recently got the Tascam dr70D, I figured it might be a contender for my usual set-up. Turns out my old set-up was more beneficial. In one of your older videos using the zoom H4n with you SD302, that sound was incredible, I'm using a SD442 with that configuration (with your video annotated updates). However, I tried the same set-up with the aforementioned dr70D instead of the H4n. The dr70D recorder just doesn't have nearly enough juice as the H4n, both with mono quarter inch. Similar to the comparison in this video. It's output lower and when normalized in post there's considerable more noise than the H4n, even when both attenuated to -12db. It is a 4 track recorder but seems to get less impressive results than the H4n when accessing the digitizer as you recommend. What do you recommend, sir? Ps: I learned all my sound needs from your videos, you're incredibly informative and beyond helpful! I appreciate your video. Sorry for the long note here
I am listening on my custom PC gamer with AKG headphones. I can hear a substantial difference. The Fostex is deeper and richer, more analog sounding. (I could even hear a difference on my Kindle tablet with its speaker instead of headphones.) I really like the sound of the Fostex. Sounds like old times. (I do wish the cheaper one won, of course. . :)
Thank you for doing this, Roland. I also have the SD302 and have learned from your videos to use it with a H4n, H6, Olympus LS100 and the DR680. I am constantly wondering whether an SD recorder would give a noticeable improvement. Buying all these cheaper recorders and then in the end having to buy the expensive pro stuff anyway. Once again, Thank you! I ordered a Sony M10 for the small size.
I know what you mean . . I'm looking for a SD 702 recorder to test vs the DR-60D. And, yes, I too bought one piece of junk after another starting out 10 years ago. Thanks to eBay, got some money back towards better equipment. Best advice is spend first on a MKH 416, 60, 8060, Schoeps cmit5u, one or more. Cameras and electronics come and go, but top mics will last for a lifetime.
I couldn't hear any difference between the recorders using a field mixer to power and amp the mic. The Fostex plastic body feels delicate, but it has lasted for me about eight years.
Just cranked up my Alesis reference monitors re: noise. That's just room tone including a computer running just out of frame. Plus, I live in the city. Like I said in the video, I didn't process the audio files at all except to normalize peaks up to 0 dBFS. The SD 302 field mixer limiter doesn't kick in until +20 dBu, so that never happened. The descriptive audio was recorded using a Sennheiser G2 wireless into a crappy Zoom H4n recorder. Only the comparison audio was recorded on the Tascam and Fostex, and I couldn't hear any difference between them, noise, room tone, or not, which was the purpose of making the movie. Thanks for watching.
Great audio guide video as always Roland. Thanks for taking the time to do and sharing. Looking forward to your SD 702 vs Tascam recorder comparison.
your testing line inn not mic-preamps? I think fostex would win hands down as its very clean and sounds very like true analogue like my Sony Pro walkman but with no hiss.
I would hope these would both sound great, since the preamp is really where this price difference would show, and you're not engaging it on either.
Every new digital recorder it sound a little bit more digital than the "Golden standart". The sound industry want to get more gain, but this cut the sound, the sound it's not natural and hot like sound from 70-s and 80-s, even from 90-s. More gain it doesn't mean more quality sound or more natural sound. In opinion Fostex FR-2LE offer very good clean natural sound for dialogs and can be used very well, still keep something from 90-s. Sennheiser MKH416 is unique high grade sharp mic, but it's made for hight end film industry and broadcast TV, which used analogue technique to record sound. This is the key, how you will record the sound ? But when you record sound with digital recorder you never can get this hot sound from 80-s, something more Sound Devices preamp are great, but also are very strong and sharp preamps.
For that reason
the best choice combination from :
- sharp mic like Sennheiser MKH416, 8060, Schoeps, also Rode NT4
- strong preamp like Sound devices 302, 442
- hot natural sound from NAGRA LB,Tascam HD-P2(very nice low cost recorder with natural sound, required strong preamps), Fostex FR2, FR2LE and delicate sound from Maranz PMD661, which is great for classic concerts, unmatched for deep natural sound recorder Korg MR-1000.
Those who wants to touch nature sound, which is so missing in digital era I will strongly recommended mics Sanken CS1,CS3e and unique natural CS5, last one it's a little bit noise, but absolutely can be cultivated with good preamps. Also my dissapointed why amazing sound from Korg MR-1000 didn't make breakthrough in digital era and every new recorder give us more "digital sound" sound, but take away us from natural recording.
King Regards,
Dincho Krastev
film director
Thank you! I've got two Fostex FR-2LEs after watching this video. They are perfect recorders especially using Tamiya RC battery or just AC/DC power supply.
Looks like they are recording at a little bit different speed. And I wonder how to replace the internal RTC battery in the future...
Hi Roland, I recently got the Tascam dr70D, I figured it might be a contender for my usual set-up. Turns out my old set-up was more beneficial. In one of your older videos using the zoom H4n with you SD302, that sound was incredible, I'm using a SD442 with that configuration (with your video annotated updates). However, I tried the same set-up with the aforementioned dr70D instead of the H4n. The dr70D recorder just doesn't have nearly enough juice as the H4n, both with mono quarter inch. Similar to the comparison in this video. It's output lower and when normalized in post there's considerable more noise than the H4n, even when both attenuated to -12db. It is a 4 track recorder but seems to get less impressive results than the H4n when accessing the digitizer as you recommend. What do you recommend, sir?
Ps: I learned all my sound needs from your videos, you're incredibly informative and beyond helpful! I appreciate your video. Sorry for the long note here
Thanks You Roland. I am a big fan of your posts.
I am listening on my custom PC gamer with AKG headphones. I can hear a substantial difference. The Fostex is deeper and richer, more analog sounding. (I could even hear a difference on my Kindle tablet with its speaker instead of headphones.) I really like the sound of the Fostex. Sounds like old times. (I do wish the cheaper one won, of course. . :)
Thank you for doing this, Roland. I also have the SD302 and have learned from your videos to use it with a H4n, H6, Olympus LS100 and the DR680. I am constantly wondering whether an SD recorder would give a noticeable improvement. Buying all these cheaper recorders and then in the end having to buy the expensive pro stuff anyway. Once again, Thank you! I ordered a Sony M10 for the small size.
I know what you mean . . I'm looking for a SD 702 recorder to test vs the DR-60D. And, yes, I too bought one piece of junk after another starting out 10 years ago. Thanks to eBay, got some money back towards better equipment. Best advice is spend first on a MKH 416, 60, 8060, Schoeps cmit5u, one or more. Cameras and electronics come and go, but top mics will last for a lifetime.
Would anyone know if there is an advantage to using a 1/4in. phone plug for line level into the Tascam vs. using an xlr type of plug?....thanks.
4 years later..?
Thanks for doing this test. Would be interested in your opinion, if there's a considerable difference in quality between both recorders
I couldn't hear any difference between the recorders using a field mixer to power and amp the mic. The Fostex plastic body feels delicate, but it has lasted for me about eight years.
Roland Comfort thanks for your reply. I appreciate your videos
I don't know, I still hear a lot of noise, and when you talk I hear the noise go up, that's the compressor working I guess?
Just cranked up my Alesis reference monitors re: noise. That's just room tone including a computer running just out of frame. Plus, I live in the city. Like I said in the video, I didn't process the audio files at all except to normalize peaks up to 0 dBFS. The SD 302 field mixer limiter doesn't kick in until +20 dBu, so that never happened. The descriptive audio was recorded using a Sennheiser G2 wireless into a crappy Zoom H4n recorder. Only the comparison audio was recorded on the Tascam and Fostex, and I couldn't hear any difference between them, noise, room tone, or not, which was the purpose of making the movie. Thanks for watching.