Before I watch this video, I just wanna say something real quick, The quality of the free content is absolutely incredible for the amount of time and resources that go into making them. I think a lot of people who may be upset at the idea of payed content may be comparing Chris and his teams videos directly to something like AVGN or parody movie reviews, or video game related content, where the overhead is much lower because 95% of the content can be filmed in the filmmaker's own home. With these videos, not only do they have to travel all around the place, they have to basically gamble with their time and money trying to get suitable shots, sometimes wait years to get access to subject locomotives at places that not only have the locos on display, but allow filming, and then spend hours writing, doing pieces to camera, taking the footage home, doing sound editing, color correction, implementing graphics that sometimes are provided by third party partners, recording voice overs, and lots of other stuff the drive the time and money investment pretty high. Plus, being seemingly the only people willing and able to produce content of this specific nature, has a certain amount of utility to it as well. You don't "have" to buy anything. If you just wanna enjoy the free content, you can.
Amen Chris. It is as you say, you can't expect an artist to work for free. Money won't appear just by hoping for it, so if this is something that's necessary to keep the channel alive, then you're definitely doing the right thing. The content you create is worth paying for anyway.
To be honest, I think it's very ungrateful and immature for anyone to give you grief over paid content. It's the way forward and means that the program is viable, would they rather it disappear?
unfortunately that is a common thing these days, especially online. I have a number of friends who are artists who take commissions online, and they are constantly having to deal with the whiny, entitled individuals who want free art because 'they should not have to pay for art'. Then you have the ones who try to justify their piracy with some lame excuse. I have seen it in the modding community for a number of rail games, where as soon as a modder makes some new model to be added, they get swarmed with comments of 'do not waste your time on that, build THIS because I want it', to the point that a lot of people are not creating anymore. Something seriously needs to change
I wish for the best for the program, Steam Locos in Profile. Look to the future: it could be on TV, the team could grow and have more productivity. It could win awards when it becomes more recognized by the media. Just think of the many possibilities that could be achieved after a lot of work. I wish you the best Mr. Green. May success be on your side. Also, there is also Patreon after all.So why not try that too.
As a fellow artist, I know exactly how you feel. I am a semi-professional musician and it is just ridiculous that people expect me to put in the many hours of rehearsal, writing/arranging music, paying for books, copyright licensing, etc and then expect me to accept a gig fee equivalent to 3 hours minimum wage, which barely covers the cost of petrol to get to and from the gig. I am glad to hear that you've been able to get the channel to start paying for itself. Just the travel to get to/from railways, or to get a line side shot of a train going past on the mainline probably takes a crew an entire day to get about 20 seconds worth of film. Keep making the videos. I'll be putting in my own order for SLIP Vol1. and 2. Your films are top-notch professional work and are worth the money paid to get them. Please do explore the possibility of selling them through iTune or GooglePlay.
Hi Martin Thank you very much for being so understanding. I've played in a few pub bands in my time and I know exactly how it feels. Sometimes, I've only just earned enough in a night to cover the cost of getting to and from the gig; with nothing left over for anything to drink. And yes, sometimes a whole day can be consumed just to get two or three usable shots at once. Mainline rail tours are dreadful for that sort of resource consumption. Have you experience with selling through iTunes and GooglePlay yourself? Or know anybody who does? I'm UK based, but am wary of applying for the US Tax Code both of them are asking for. In the meantime, options are still being explored. The Paid Only content is working, but there ought to be other options available for other people.
What a sad world where you should have to put up a clip such as this. Chris, you guy's are making a great program, with great entertainment and great info. You shouldn't have to justify anything to anyone and I for one am more than happy to pay the tiny fee to view so as to support your programs production - stuff the people who expect something for nothing, stop looking a gift horse in the mouth I say! Keep up the great work mate.
I can mostly understand now. I'm from the US so i forgot that you guys over there have to pay by the liter so because of that its a lot more expensive. Let alone not knowing at all how much it cost to go on the railway. So it does clear up somethings.
Okay, at least my concern about the DVDs being region free are over. I'll probably buy the first volume someday, as your content is very informative since the series started. Can't wait for future installments.
I have both of your DVDs and find them very well done (I was able to order both without any difficulty from the US). They do work any were on any device. I can fully understand that you need income to produce such DVDs and the RUclips channel. It is only fair that viewers should share the costs of productions and afford your crew some meaningful profit. Having lived in Harrogate, my family is still there, I can understand the costs of travelling around the UK. I do not feel "ripped off" or "cheated" in any way. Your videos are some of the best around in terms of technology and information presentation. People who copy your DVDs are basically stealing from you, it is cheating and lacks integrity, not to mention moral character. People who work for nothing with an expectation of reasonable revenue are never happy and often dismayed (rightfully so). Thanks for all your work and energy, I appreciate it and more importantly respect it.
Thanks for putting this video up to clear a few things Chris. Some people seem to forget that quality productions cost money (well, any production really when one takes the time to think about it). Paid content is becoming the norm and as you say, viewers can expect to get a full 12 months after release to view new content before it clicks over. Re. the 5th Anniversary bonus content. I reckon a crowdfunding campaign is the way to go. Set your target and off you go :)
Great idea of keeping the last 4 episodes free. Now I understand how you operate, I will go ahead and buy some that I have missed. I only found you a few months ago.All the bestBarry. Devon.
On a philosophical point, the 'Arts' they have always been and always will be a social 'thing'. Music in particular, the people in the community (nowadays mainly African, in the context I talking about) would come together to make music for whatever reason. As society has become much more economic, the Arts have become a commodity. We still retain that age old instinct and the social aspect towards music and the arts. I am with you completely on paid content, it makes perfect sense, being a musician myself, I have £1500 trumpet. My parents paid around £20k on music lessons over 10-15 years, and gigs that have become few and far between with digital age can be worth about £150. (including rehearsal time and fuel).
I think it's generally a good idea, as I mentioned before else where, I think the people who maybe unhappy are those who don't understand I think this video should of been done first before swapping to payed content. sadly those who have watched it for free on Tube expect it to be free when it's paid then they don't see why the should pay if it was free before. Also as you mention depends if those watching have a bank account or paypal or old enough to have it. it's a good decision but should of out this up first.
+bluebellModelrailway It may well have been beneficial to put this up before any Paid-Only content. The unfortunate thing being there would be a window for any thieves watching this to THEN download everything as quickly as they can before it was too late. It's Catch 22, really. This could have gone up before or after and the reception would still remain the same.
Chris Eden-Green I'm an American and I am subscribed to forgotten weapons. Ian has buttloads of content of rare and antique guns, and none is paid only. I like your content Chris, and I really hope you'll Talk to him. He is friendly and helpful and I bet he'll show you how to make it sustain itself.
I like your series and now will look to buy the DVDs, I agree that you have to at least cover costs it's just rather a shame that advertising hasn't done that. I have found the various bits of info about locomotives quirks and foibles fascinating and would urge you to get more technical with you profiles. Keep up the good work.
I just got this passed on over facebook mentioning no names and honestly watching the full video I agree with a lot of things mentioned in this video as for you got being a fan of my videos, I'm not taking it personal, you're being honest and also, being honest I sure I seen your videos around on facebook or youtube and haven't watched any but I would agree that the money does have to come from somewhere
I'm fully with you. You do a fantastic job showing us there magnificent locomotives and for me well worth the money. I brought a copy of the A4's and plan to buy more. would be great if you did the A1 and A3 wishing you all the best
Steam Locos in Profile is like a TV show of old in that it gets a free airing but after that you need to buy the video to see it again, I have yet to buy your DVDs because of money and general lack of but I know that when I do its worth it. Your videos are made to a high standard and if that is what keeps you making it very well its worth it.
It's a shame that I can't really watch older episodes of S.L.I.P.s, especially after I've rediscovered the channel, but I completely understand your decision for paid content and wish the best of luck.
Love the Durango & Silverton T shirt. Googled to buy the T shirt but can't find. Can you help with a link pls?...Having bought both Vol 1 & 2 and thoroughly enjoyed both we have no issue paying if it helps support the series continuing.
Thanks for your support, Chris. The D&S t-shirt came from the D&S at their gift shop about seven years ago. I'm not sure if that particular one is made anymore, I can't seem to find it anywhere either.
6 years late, but let me say this... I used to hate the fact that SLIPs was have to be paid for, but now I see why this is pay ware now. Very well said Chris! - Sid
Guys, I'm an American, and I love English steam. I watch a similar channel called Forgotten weapons, who finds obscure and antique guns, discusses their history, how they function, and how to disassemble them. He advertises for Auction companies, and I would assume grants loyalty to the channel, and he also has a patreon. I would talk to him.
I hate to contradict, but Patreon is not all things to all people. After a lot of logistical calculation behind the scenes, it just doesn't look like it can work for SLIPs. Previous crowd funding schemes have revealed a lot of people saying they'll contribute and then don't, nearly forcing them to fail and production to close down. Forgotten Weapons has tons of great content, but they cater to a very different target market to that of railfans. Realistically, not all artists can rely on monthly donations alone. And any railway we advertise for is in no position to pay us, unless we sell DVDs through them. Another thing is Patreon doesn't safeguard our work against piracy as much as Paywalls. From my experience, if people will take advantage of claiming something without having to pay for it, they will. And ever since I introduced this option, I have had no further cases of theft. It's a shame, but that seems to be the way things have gone in terms of online content. If the popularity of SLIPs was reaching millions of viewers worldwide, then I may be inclined to agree with you about Patreon and corporate sponsorship. But, it's simply not now and may never do so, unfortunately.
I fully agree with everything you said matey. there is a series I want to start that hopefully, I could make some money off as it won't be copyrighted by anyone so far. but yes, travel and entry is highly expensive. BUT I always say, its worth the expense at the end.
Couldn't have put it any better myself, again with copyright issues there are people who just have to spoil it for others and steal peoples video's. As a close friend of Simon Poole what happened with his channel was disgusting thanks to a certain person but fortunately this was sorted out extremely quickly. Looking forward to future episodes of SLIP and may at some point purchase the DVD's when iv some free cash.
Well said,and thank you for sharing I hope those who complained will now put a sock in it.One question please, will you be releasing the Steam Loco's in a box set with extras in it as I would like to buy that if you do..?
My only gripe with the charge was i didn't know it was happening until i tried to watch the u-boat one. :p Might just force me to buy the dvd's though.... Anyhoos, well done guys, great job you're doing and keep up the good work! :)
i really enjoy your show Chris, i also respect your material and i'm thinking about buying the 2nd DVD. I've also been inspired by you to do my own series about danish locomotives and learned how hard it is to start something from the ground and build from there. But i've also seen how much support can mean for a new started project. While a show like yours could have an audience in Britains, its fairly new to the danish audience, which is what i'm dealing with. So regarding the problem about piracy and paid-only. I dont mind to watch things online, but i do prefer to have a copy of a DVD as i, like with paperbacks find the solid proof more impressive to own :) well as with piracy, its a tough nut. in any case i'll be following you closely an hoping for the best. ~Sebastian
Well if you are planning to do America, that means covering numerous kinds of engines ranging from small shunters to the big, mammoth articulated locomotives as well. I do know a fair bit of knowledge about Susquehanna 142, UP 844, Challenger 3985, N&W 611, N&W 1218, SP 4449, and also Big Boy 4014 and I do know how the Mallet Design works to some degree.
Well said Mr. E-G! People act like they’re far too entitled these days. Shame on them! Please keep up the grand work. You are appreciated by the majority. Do not let the petty-minded, self-entitled minority put you off. They aren’t worth your time!
I say fair play you have to cover your costs otherwise you can't justify doing it. Also saw you at the South Devon last Saturday in front of 6412 before it went off shed. Will look forward to seeing it.
Well spoken Chris! and its good to know what we can get the dvd's down under :) on the international note..... Pretty sure the NSWGR C38 pacifics could use a bit of airtime *wink wink nudge nudge*
+BendoesMineCraft That depends how many actually want to contribute. The IndieGoGo campaign of 2014 revealed the ratio from Speakers to Contributors is staggeringly nerve-wracking. And there's already been a few people who have suggested Patreon without willing to give anything themselves. So, it almost seems a wasted effort.
Well Said Chris I give up my spare time as a volunteer to work at Stewart's lane on Clan Line she is now at Crewe but we are on target for the beginning of next year and hopefully our engine should be in steam by the end of November for tests between Crewe and Chester but for now we are assisting the A1 Trust with Tornado which is at our shed for British Pullman runs she is due out on the 11th of May for a run to Bristol I love your show with the sole slips and the other steam locomotives plus the train now starring keep up the good work see you around oh for the next train now starring I think the railway children could be next it had two films one at the Keithley and Worth Valley Railway then the Bluebell Railway
I can relate. I've been doing history videos for some time now, but I'm getting no cash raked in, and have no supporters on Patreon. Maybe it's because nobody watches them... Anyhow, may I make the assumption you've been to a few North American heritage railways by the logo on your shirt?
I understand where your coming from Chris. I have Vol 1 and a couple of the videos that I paid for since I do Chromecast to show people how cool trains are. Also, how about a 101 class on some terms for the people overseas? I was lost in the A4 episode with your "LNER fanboy" lingo. The Internet is still vauge about British Railway history. Cheers
+Chris Eden-Green I'm a fairly new follower of your work, but being an Aussie with a strong interest in British steam locos I have come to like your series as it gives me an insight into some of the preserved railways of Great Britain and what sort of work, and where abouts, each class of steam loco worked. As for travelling costs, I understand that as I like to get out and about photographing and videoing the Australian scene (which I'm looking forward to doing big-time soon). I hope to purchase your DVD's soon, but meanwhile keep up the good work on your series's and please consider a trip "Down Under" as we have quite a bit to show, both steam and vintage diesel, such as 65 y.o diesels still in revenue service!!! (See my channel)
Maybe you can find someone in the United States who can do a spin-off. It would have to be the same quality though. A USATC S160 is now running in the US close to where I live. It has been converted to oil firing. It used to run on the standard gauge part of my favorite Railroad the East Tennessee and Western North Carolina Railroad. If you like I can try to get you some footage of it.
+Daniel Mccoy Downloading a video that is free to watch is a two edged sword, especially if it's already copyrighted like mine. If it's licensed under Creative Commons (which NONE of my material is), then it's as good as Public Domain; and therefore free for all to do what they like with. But, this isn't the case with any of my material. Any public broadcast or re-use of SLIPs is not to be tolerated. And may now be pursued with legal action as a result of the series now being sold on DVD. So, while new episodes may be free to watch to begin with, that's not to be treated as a download period.
It's not the same as recording something off the TV though… You still have to pay some kind of fee for any kind of TV/Streaming service. Cable and Sky cost money, and (in the UK atleast) an annual BBC TV License allows an establishment to have a TV in the first place. Once you've paid for that, THEN recording is justified as you've affectively paid for the privilege of recording such content. And here's another thing to consider. If someone uploads material that's already copyrighted, that doesn't mean it's free to download. My material is copyrighted to me, so no; that doesn't make it okay. Sorry, but my material is neither public domain nor creative commons. So that argument simply doesn't stick.
Nicely put! Money has to come from somewhere. Have you considered a Patreon? I am sure some of your followers would be happy to lay down a small amount of cash each month to keep you and your show alive.
+Mush The consideration's been there for a long time. But the ratio from Suggestions to Supporters has indicated that it would be a wasted effort. Even in the IGG Campaign we ran a few years ago, there were more people who 'said' they would support and then withdrew than there were supporters.
Might as well put in my two cents. I do enjoy the series, and I do wish you luck with it. The problem is, I don't have the money to spend on this series. I would love to be able to purchase it, but money for me just isn't there. This basically means, regardless of your points, I can no longer view these. I get what your saying, and I wish you luck. It does mean that I am no longer a viewer of the channel.
+MrRailroadrunner Really? I'm a little short on buying all the episodes myself, but when you have enough just buy the DVDs, plus there are "free to view" videos still available to watch. There is no need to un-subscribe just because your wallet is a little bare.
I get that, but my main use for this series is checking British engine specs. This means, unlike most series I spend most of my time looking through old episodes. 90% of the time I need a certain amount of facts about a certain class. I don't follow British stuff much as I'm an American. This is the only real area where I was able to understand British locomotive operation.
+MrRailroadrunner Okay, but you do realise you can contact Chris with any questions you may have. There is also Google which you can use. So there are other sources out there. You just need to look for them.
Yes, again you make a point. But again, I used these as a general summary. I don't always go through a wall of text just to figure out why say a 9F has the power output it does. I would watch one of these videos to figure out it's strengths and weaknesses. It's more general knowledge that I don't have versus a completely factual write up. I would rather have the general knowledge in this case.
+MrRailroadrunner Okay then, just use wikipedia. It divides things into parts, plus the right hand side of wikipedia holds the basic/general information. I use wikipedia for a guide on diesels. But again, you can always ask Chris, or other people on the facebook page of SLiPs. Its not rocket science.
That's fine - but you need to improve your communication with people that order your DVD's. I waited for a response from you after ordering for ages. I had to assume that you were waiting for DVD 2 to become available before sending them both out. I shouldn't have to guess. Having said that I'm looking forward to DVD 3 whenever that appears. Keep up the good work - I think you are going to be forced into a subscription channel if you want to earn a living from it!
Mate. Having only just found your series I'm surprised people are being so stingy. You put a lot of research and effort into your videos. I'd pay to see more of them. I'd just have to wait till payday and a decent broadband connection. Don't feel the need to defend your actions it is perfectly understandable, those platform and shed passes aren't cheap. Keep up the good work. Ps I can offer transport help in north west
Totally understandable. Free content is nice, but most people realize that some form of funding was going to be necessary, in order for the documentaries to continue.
how can they complain with the price? if its not worth it to them , then I wouldn't worry , they cant care too much, I feel bad for those who are truly unable to receive it though. I myself wondered how long it could go on for free. besides if it makes enough to be self sustaining it will maintain and likely improve its quality.
It makes sense. I mean, many RUclipsrs have to find a way to make RUclips pay for them. While I can't pay for the episodes once the plan is implemented, i'll try and keep a cool head about it. Also for your plans for America, must I run yelling that the British are coming? I mean, it would be funny to do, but also highly annoying and illegal.
America? That will be a lot of Steam Locos in Profile reviews such as the Allegheny, A Class, 4-8-0's, Challenger, Big Boy, 4-8-4's, etc. so in America, I guess you got your work cut out.
Hey I'm live in the u.s. near a lot of steam museums and heritage railroads. I was wondering if you could contact me about info but I would like to start a u.s Steam Locos in profile but pay some of the royalties to you. Contact me if this would be a good idea, thank you have a great series and life. Love your series.
Chris Chris Chris.. Why oh why give credence to the whiners by responding to them? They have demonstrated the type of people they are with their comments. You Blokes are easily worth the coin you ask for. Some people just need to be ignored. And while I'm, here I'd like to point out that the two DVDs you posted to Australia work just fine. The sweetheart and I have thoroughly enjoyed them. My take on this is, that you you charge a little coin, you're likely to do more.. And how good is that? ...and if people are choosing to subscribe to the paid only content? Then you've done the right thing. Simple..
+Andrew “Noisy” Muhling It's more to update people on the current situation and where we're planning to take things from here. Any acknowledgement of such people is there to re-iterate the situation in terms beyond layman's, as I feel it cannot be emphasised enough. Glad to know the DVDs are working well. There should be more coming, should no further thieving takes place.
I would if I was old enough to have a sustainable source of income but a soon as I get one I will certainly become a supporter. I'm sure others will be willing to donate.
Nobody's being forced. It's just an option, not an obligation. These videos were already on DVD, so it's pointless to give them away at the same time. As for common? Try being unable to produce content when there's no way of paying for it in the first place. Instead of being able to pay for the show AND my own living, would you rather I was behind on my taxes?
Thankfully not, but I would rather not put myself or my crew at such risk. Like I say in the video, my day work keeps me but has little left over for SLIPs. So, the program has to find ways to become commercially viable if it's going to continue in the long run. It's a sign of the times that I don't like, but as the advertising money was pitiful and piracy has become a problem, measures like this are becoming necessary evils. I make no apologies to people who think artists should work for nothing.
Before I watch this video, I just wanna say something real quick,
The quality of the free content is absolutely incredible for the amount of time and resources that go into making them.
I think a lot of people who may be upset at the idea of payed content may be comparing Chris and his teams videos directly to something like AVGN or parody movie reviews, or video game related content, where the overhead is much lower because 95% of the content can be filmed in the filmmaker's own home.
With these videos, not only do they have to travel all around the place, they have to basically gamble with their time and money trying to get suitable shots, sometimes wait years to get access to subject locomotives at places that not only have the locos on display, but allow filming, and then spend hours writing, doing pieces to camera, taking the footage home, doing sound editing, color correction, implementing graphics that sometimes are provided by third party partners, recording voice overs, and lots of other stuff the drive the time and money investment pretty high.
Plus, being seemingly the only people willing and able to produce content of this specific nature, has a certain amount of utility to it as well.
You don't "have" to buy anything. If you just wanna enjoy the free content, you can.
As Simon's brother, I can honestly say that I respect your honesty and wish you all of the success for the future
Amen Chris. It is as you say, you can't expect an artist to work for free. Money won't appear just by hoping for it, so if this is something that's necessary to keep the channel alive, then you're definitely doing the right thing. The content you create is worth paying for anyway.
To be honest, I think it's very ungrateful and immature for anyone to give you grief over paid content. It's the way forward and means that the program is viable, would they rather it disappear?
unfortunately that is a common thing these days, especially online. I have a number of friends who are artists who take commissions online, and they are constantly having to deal with the whiny, entitled individuals who want free art because 'they should not have to pay for art'. Then you have the ones who try to justify their piracy with some lame excuse. I have seen it in the modding community for a number of rail games, where as soon as a modder makes some new model to be added, they get swarmed with comments of 'do not waste your time on that, build THIS because I want it', to the point that a lot of people are not creating anymore.
Something seriously needs to change
This is youtube. Nobody should be making paid content on it. It contradicts the spirit of the site.
I wish for the best for the program, Steam Locos in Profile. Look to the future: it could be on TV, the team could grow and have more productivity. It could win awards when it becomes more recognized by the media. Just think of the many possibilities that could be achieved after a lot of work. I wish you the best Mr. Green. May success be on your side. Also, there is also Patreon after all.So why not try that too.
As a fellow artist, I know exactly how you feel. I am a semi-professional musician and it is just ridiculous that people expect me to put in the many hours of rehearsal, writing/arranging music, paying for books, copyright licensing, etc and then expect me to accept a gig fee equivalent to 3 hours minimum wage, which barely covers the cost of petrol to get to and from the gig.
I am glad to hear that you've been able to get the channel to start paying for itself. Just the travel to get to/from railways, or to get a line side shot of a train going past on the mainline probably takes a crew an entire day to get about 20 seconds worth of film.
Keep making the videos. I'll be putting in my own order for SLIP Vol1. and 2. Your films are top-notch professional work and are worth the money paid to get them.
Please do explore the possibility of selling them through iTune or GooglePlay.
Hi Martin
Thank you very much for being so understanding.
I've played in a few pub bands in my time and I know exactly how it feels. Sometimes, I've only just earned enough in a night to cover the cost of getting to and from the gig; with nothing left over for anything to drink.
And yes, sometimes a whole day can be consumed just to get two or three usable shots at once. Mainline rail tours are dreadful for that sort of resource consumption.
Have you experience with selling through iTunes and GooglePlay yourself? Or know anybody who does? I'm UK based, but am wary of applying for the US Tax Code both of them are asking for.
In the meantime, options are still being explored. The Paid Only content is working, but there ought to be other options available for other people.
What a sad world where you should have to put up a clip such as this. Chris, you guy's are making a great program, with great entertainment and great info. You shouldn't have to justify anything to anyone and I for one am more than happy to pay the tiny fee to view so as to support your programs production - stuff the people who expect something for nothing, stop looking a gift horse in the mouth I say! Keep up the great work mate.
I can mostly understand now. I'm from the US so i forgot that you guys over there have to pay by the liter so because of that its a lot more expensive. Let alone not knowing at all how much it cost to go on the railway. So it does clear up somethings.
Okay, at least my concern about the DVDs being region free are over.
I'll probably buy the first volume someday, as your content is very informative since the series started. Can't wait for future installments.
I have both of your DVDs and find them very well done (I was able to order both without any difficulty from the US). They do work any were on any device. I can fully understand that you need income to produce such DVDs and the RUclips channel. It is only fair that viewers should share the costs of productions and afford your crew some meaningful profit. Having lived in Harrogate, my family is still there, I can understand the costs of travelling around the UK. I do not feel "ripped off" or "cheated" in any way. Your videos are some of the best around in terms of technology and information presentation. People who copy your DVDs are basically stealing from you, it is cheating and lacks integrity, not to mention moral character. People who work for nothing with an expectation of reasonable revenue are never happy and often dismayed (rightfully so). Thanks for all your work and energy, I appreciate it and more importantly respect it.
Thanks for putting this video up to clear a few things Chris. Some people seem to forget that quality productions cost money (well, any production really when one takes the time to think about it). Paid content is becoming the norm and as you say, viewers can expect to get a full 12 months after release to view new content before it clicks over.
Re. the 5th Anniversary bonus content. I reckon a crowdfunding campaign is the way to go. Set your target and off you go :)
Great idea of keeping the last 4 episodes free. Now I understand how you operate, I will go ahead and buy some that I have missed. I only found you a few months ago.All the bestBarry. Devon.
On a philosophical point, the 'Arts' they have always been and always will be a social 'thing'. Music in particular, the people in the community (nowadays mainly African, in the context I talking about) would come together to make music for whatever reason. As society has become much more economic, the Arts have become a commodity. We still retain that age old instinct and the social aspect towards music and the arts. I am with you completely on paid content, it makes perfect sense, being a musician myself, I have £1500 trumpet. My parents paid around £20k on music lessons over 10-15 years, and gigs that have become few and far between with digital age can be worth about £150. (including rehearsal time and fuel).
Very well spoken sir! By the way, did going Great Central get released? or is that to come?
+James Bradley
That's to come. We're still trying to work out the best and most cost-effective way of releasing it
Wonderful!
I think it's generally a good idea, as I mentioned before else where, I think the people who maybe unhappy are those who don't understand I think this video should of been done first before swapping to payed content.
sadly those who have watched it for free on Tube expect it to be free when it's paid then they don't see why the should pay if it was free before.
Also as you mention depends if those watching have a bank account or paypal or old enough to have it.
it's a good decision but should of out this up first.
+bluebellModelrailway It may well have been beneficial to put this up before any Paid-Only content. The unfortunate thing being there would be a window for any thieves watching this to THEN download everything as quickly as they can before it was too late.
It's Catch 22, really. This could have gone up before or after and the reception would still remain the same.
This isn't a hobby
+Chris Eden-Green Sadly people do seem to expect something for nothing these days...
Chris Eden-Green I'm an American and I am subscribed to forgotten weapons. Ian has buttloads of content of rare and antique guns, and none is paid only. I like your content Chris, and I really hope you'll Talk to him. He is friendly and helpful and I bet he'll show you how to make it sustain itself.
Suggestion: in a few years when you have more episodes, maybe DVDs for each company instead of a general selection, i.e. one on the LMS?
I like your series and now will look to buy the DVDs, I agree that you have to at least cover costs it's just rather a shame that advertising hasn't done that. I have found the various bits of info about locomotives quirks and foibles fascinating and would urge you to get more technical with you profiles. Keep up the good work.
I just got this passed on over facebook mentioning no names and honestly watching the full video I agree with a lot of things mentioned in this video as for you got being a fan of my videos, I'm not taking it personal, you're being honest and also, being honest I sure I seen your videos around on facebook or youtube and haven't watched any but I would agree that the money does have to come from somewhere
I'm fully with you. You do a fantastic job showing us there magnificent locomotives and for me well worth the money. I brought a copy of the A4's and plan to buy more. would be great if you did the A1 and A3 wishing you all the best
Steam Locos in Profile is like a TV show of old in that it gets a free airing but after that you need to buy the video to see it again, I have yet to buy your DVDs because of money and general lack of but I know that when I do its worth it. Your videos are made to a high standard and if that is what keeps you making it very well its worth it.
Very good video Chris. Many valid points made, and backed up well. I will continue to support you and the channel in the future.
Tommy
It's a shame that I can't really watch older episodes of S.L.I.P.s, especially after I've rediscovered the channel, but I completely understand your decision for paid content and wish the best of luck.
Could not agree more, in fact you are still very generous with what you are offering!
Love the Durango & Silverton T shirt. Googled to buy the T shirt but can't find. Can you help with a link pls?...Having bought both Vol 1 & 2 and thoroughly enjoyed both we have no issue paying if it helps support the series continuing.
Thanks for your support, Chris. The D&S t-shirt came from the D&S at their gift shop about seven years ago. I'm not sure if that particular one is made anymore, I can't seem to find it anywhere either.
6 years late, but let me say this... I used to hate the fact that SLIPs was have to be paid for, but now I see why this is pay ware now. Very well said Chris! - Sid
Well said Chris....This needed to be aired........You'll always have my support for your videos...Steve.
Understandable Mr. Chris Eden-Green. I will support your works.
Guys, I'm an American, and I love English steam. I watch a similar channel called Forgotten weapons, who finds obscure and antique guns, discusses their history, how they function, and how to disassemble them. He advertises for Auction companies, and I would assume grants loyalty to the channel, and he also has a patreon. I would talk to him.
I hate to contradict, but Patreon is not all things to all people. After a lot of logistical calculation behind the scenes, it just doesn't look like it can work for SLIPs.
Previous crowd funding schemes have revealed a lot of people saying they'll contribute and then don't, nearly forcing them to fail and production to close down. Forgotten Weapons has tons of great content, but they cater to a very different target market to that of railfans. Realistically, not all artists can rely on monthly donations alone.
And any railway we advertise for is in no position to pay us, unless we sell DVDs through them.
Another thing is Patreon doesn't safeguard our work against piracy as much as Paywalls. From my experience, if people will take advantage of claiming something without having to pay for it, they will. And ever since I introduced this option, I have had no further cases of theft. It's a shame, but that seems to be the way things have gone in terms of online content.
If the popularity of SLIPs was reaching millions of viewers worldwide, then I may be inclined to agree with you about Patreon and corporate sponsorship. But, it's simply not now and may never do so, unfortunately.
Chris Eden-Green aww man. Oh well. Keep at it mate.
I fully agree with everything you said matey. there is a series I want to start that hopefully, I could make some money off as it won't be copyrighted by anyone so far. but yes, travel and entry is highly expensive. BUT I always say, its worth the expense at the end.
Couldn't have put it any better myself, again with copyright issues there are people who just have to spoil it for others and steal peoples video's. As a close friend of Simon Poole what happened with his channel was disgusting thanks to a certain person but fortunately this was sorted out extremely quickly. Looking forward to future episodes of SLIP and may at some point purchase the DVD's when iv some free cash.
Well said,and thank you for sharing I hope those who complained will now put a sock in it.One question please, will you be releasing the Steam Loco's in a box set with extras in it as I would like to buy that if you do..?
you have a Durango and silverton shirt.
I love that railroad.
My only gripe with the charge was i didn't know it was happening until i tried to watch the u-boat one. :p Might just force me to buy the dvd's though....
Anyhoos, well done guys, great job you're doing and keep up the good work! :)
Just wondering, would you be ok if anyone ever tried to do an American version of Steam Locos in Profile, or something akin to your style?
I agree with the paid for content it is a good way of supporting SLIPs and being able to watch old videos without having to buy the DVD
I support what you are saying 100%! Keep up the great work Chris
Would you add the dvd extras as paid content on RUclips?
+Scott Rixon
I'm afraid not. Those extras were made as DVD exclusives from the outset and ought to remain thus
i really enjoy your show Chris, i also respect your material and i'm thinking about buying the 2nd DVD. I've also been inspired by you to do my own series about danish locomotives and learned how hard it is to start something from the ground and build from there.
But i've also seen how much support can mean for a new started project. While a show like yours could have an audience in Britains, its fairly new to the danish audience, which is what i'm dealing with.
So regarding the problem about piracy and paid-only. I dont mind to watch things online, but i do prefer to have a copy of a DVD as i, like with paperbacks find the solid proof more impressive to own :) well as with piracy, its a tough nut.
in any case i'll be following you closely an hoping for the best.
~Sebastian
Well if you are planning to do America, that means covering numerous kinds of engines ranging from small shunters to the big, mammoth articulated locomotives as well. I do know a fair bit of knowledge about Susquehanna 142, UP 844, Challenger 3985, N&W 611, N&W 1218, SP 4449, and also Big Boy 4014 and I do know how the Mallet Design works to some degree.
Well said Mr. E-G!
People act like they’re far too entitled these days. Shame on them!
Please keep up the grand work. You are appreciated by the majority. Do not let the petty-minded, self-entitled minority put you off. They aren’t worth your time!
Watched a majority of your free content and subbed most likely won't pay for it but I look forward to your new content
I totally agree with you Chris. in every way
I say fair play you have to cover your costs otherwise you can't justify doing it. Also saw you at the South Devon last Saturday in front of 6412 before it went off shed. Will look forward to seeing it.
Diggin the Durango and Silverton shirt.
Well spoken Chris!
and its good to know what we can get the dvd's down under :)
on the international note..... Pretty sure the NSWGR C38 pacifics could use a bit of airtime *wink wink nudge nudge*
Chris I was wondering if you looked at getting funds from starting a thing on Patreon?
+BendoesMineCraft
That depends how many actually want to contribute. The IndieGoGo campaign of 2014 revealed the ratio from Speakers to Contributors is staggeringly nerve-wracking. And there's already been a few people who have suggested Patreon without willing to give anything themselves. So, it almost seems a wasted effort.
I see
Well Said Chris I give up my spare time as a volunteer to work at Stewart's lane on Clan Line she is now at Crewe but we are on target for the beginning of next year and hopefully our engine should be in steam by the end of November for tests between Crewe and Chester but for now we are assisting the A1 Trust with Tornado which is at our shed for British Pullman runs she is due out on the 11th of May for a run to Bristol I love your show with the sole slips and the other steam locomotives plus the train now starring keep up the good work see you around oh for the next train now starring I think the railway children could be next it had two films one at the Keithley and Worth Valley Railway then the Bluebell Railway
I can relate. I've been doing history videos for some time now, but I'm getting no cash raked in, and have no supporters on Patreon. Maybe it's because nobody watches them...
Anyhow, may I make the assumption you've been to a few North American heritage railways by the logo on your shirt?
Very well put, Chris.
How about Trams in profile? Might be an idea, low cost too
+Lennon6412 Or Buses in Profile or Cars in Profile.
Joshua Peterson Could do but I was trying to keep it rail related. Cars would be too broad, unless you stuck to classic cars,
yea good point. What about trucks in profile? ( semi trucks)
Well said Chris. :-)
I agree with you on everything you said and I will consider buying the DVD's from your website.
Totally understand. One has to make a profit, or at least cover costs.
I understand where your coming from Chris. I have Vol 1 and a couple of the videos that I paid for since I do Chromecast to show people how cool trains are.
Also, how about a 101 class on some terms for the people overseas? I was lost in the A4 episode with your "LNER fanboy" lingo. The Internet is still vauge about British Railway history.
Cheers
+Chris Eden-Green I'm a fairly new follower of your work, but being an Aussie with a strong interest in British steam locos I have come to like your series as it gives me an insight into some of the preserved railways of Great Britain and what sort of work, and where abouts, each class of steam loco worked. As for travelling costs, I understand that as I like to get out and about photographing and videoing the Australian scene (which I'm looking forward to doing big-time soon).
I hope to purchase your DVD's soon, but meanwhile keep up the good work on your series's and please consider a trip "Down Under" as we have quite a bit to show, both steam and vintage diesel, such as 65 y.o diesels still in revenue service!!! (See my channel)
Maybe you can find someone in the United States who can do a spin-off. It would have to be the same quality though. A USATC S160 is now running in the US close to where I live. It has been converted to oil firing. It used to run on the standard gauge part of my favorite Railroad the East Tennessee and Western North Carolina Railroad. If you like I can try to get you some footage of it.
+Daniel Mccoy
Downloading a video that is free to watch is a two edged sword, especially if it's already copyrighted like mine. If it's licensed under Creative Commons (which NONE of my material is), then it's as good as Public Domain; and therefore free for all to do what they like with. But, this isn't the case with any of my material.
Any public broadcast or re-use of SLIPs is not to be tolerated. And may now be pursued with legal action as a result of the series now being sold on DVD. So, while new episodes may be free to watch to begin with, that's not to be treated as a download period.
It's not the same as recording something off the TV though…
You still have to pay some kind of fee for any kind of TV/Streaming service. Cable and Sky cost money, and (in the UK atleast) an annual BBC TV License allows an establishment to have a TV in the first place. Once you've paid for that, THEN recording is justified as you've affectively paid for the privilege of recording such content.
And here's another thing to consider. If someone uploads material that's already copyrighted, that doesn't mean it's free to download. My material is copyrighted to me, so no; that doesn't make it okay.
Sorry, but my material is neither public domain nor creative commons. So that argument simply doesn't stick.
Nicely put! Money has to come from somewhere.
Have you considered a Patreon? I am sure some of your followers would be happy to lay down a small amount of cash each month to keep you and your show alive.
+Mush
The consideration's been there for a long time. But the ratio from Suggestions to Supporters has indicated that it would be a wasted effort. Even in the IGG Campaign we ran a few years ago, there were more people who 'said' they would support and then withdrew than there were supporters.
very well done i do agree with you
Might as well put in my two cents. I do enjoy the series, and I do wish you luck with it. The problem is, I don't have the money to spend on this series. I would love to be able to purchase it, but money for me just isn't there. This basically means, regardless of your points, I can no longer view these. I get what your saying, and I wish you luck. It does mean that I am no longer a viewer of the channel.
+MrRailroadrunner Really? I'm a little short on buying all the episodes myself, but when you have enough just buy the DVDs, plus there are "free to view" videos still available to watch. There is no need to un-subscribe just because your wallet is a little bare.
I get that, but my main use for this series is checking British engine specs. This means, unlike most series I spend most of my time looking through old episodes. 90% of the time I need a certain amount of facts about a certain class. I don't follow British stuff much as I'm an American. This is the only real area where I was able to understand British locomotive operation.
+MrRailroadrunner Okay, but you do realise you can contact Chris with any questions you may have. There is also Google which you can use. So there are other sources out there. You just need to look for them.
Yes, again you make a point. But again, I used these as a general summary. I don't always go through a wall of text just to figure out why say a 9F has the power output it does. I would watch one of these videos to figure out it's strengths and weaknesses. It's more general knowledge that I don't have versus a completely factual write up. I would rather have the general knowledge in this case.
+MrRailroadrunner Okay then, just use wikipedia. It divides things into parts, plus the right hand side of wikipedia holds the basic/general information. I use wikipedia for a guide on diesels. But again, you can always ask Chris, or other people on the facebook page of SLiPs. Its not rocket science.
That's fine - but you need to improve your communication with people that order your DVD's. I waited for a response from you after ordering for ages. I had to assume that you were waiting for DVD 2 to become available before sending them both out. I shouldn't have to guess. Having said that I'm looking forward to DVD 3 whenever that appears. Keep up the good work - I think you are going to be forced into a subscription channel if you want to earn a living from it!
hey chris if you guy's do come state side I love to work with you
Mate. Having only just found your series I'm surprised people are being so stingy. You put a lot of research and effort into your videos. I'd pay to see more of them. I'd just have to wait till payday and a decent broadband connection.
Don't feel the need to defend your actions it is perfectly understandable, those platform and shed passes aren't cheap. Keep up the good work. Ps I can offer transport help in north west
Totally understandable. Free content is nice, but most people realize that some form of funding was going to be necessary, in order for the documentaries to continue.
how can they complain with the price? if its not worth it to them , then I wouldn't worry , they cant care too much, I feel bad for those who are truly unable to receive it though.
I myself wondered how long it could go on for free. besides if it makes enough to be self sustaining it will maintain and likely improve its quality.
It all makes good logical sense. Those videos need to pay for themselves somehow.
It makes sense. I mean, many RUclipsrs have to find a way to make RUclips pay for them. While I can't pay for the episodes once the plan is implemented, i'll try and keep a cool head about it. Also for your plans for America, must I run yelling that the British are coming? I mean, it would be funny to do, but also highly annoying and illegal.
America? That will be a lot of Steam Locos in Profile reviews such as the Allegheny, A Class, 4-8-0's, Challenger, Big Boy, 4-8-4's, etc. so in America, I guess you got your work cut out.
Hey I'm live in the u.s. near a lot of steam museums and heritage railroads. I was wondering if you could contact me about info but I would like to start a u.s Steam Locos in profile but pay some of the royalties to you. Contact me if this would be a good idea, thank you have a great series and life.
Love your series.
Chris Chris Chris..
Why oh why give credence to the whiners by responding to them? They have demonstrated the type of people they are with their comments. You Blokes are easily worth the coin you ask for. Some people just need to be ignored.
And while I'm, here I'd like to point out that the two DVDs you posted to Australia work just fine. The sweetheart and I have thoroughly enjoyed them.
My take on this is, that you you charge a little coin, you're likely to do more.. And how good is that?
...and if people are choosing to subscribe to the paid only content? Then you've done the right thing. Simple..
+Andrew “Noisy” Muhling
It's more to update people on the current situation and where we're planning to take things from here.
Any acknowledgement of such people is there to re-iterate the situation in terms beyond layman's, as I feel it cannot be emphasised enough.
Glad to know the DVDs are working well. There should be more coming, should no further thieving takes place.
Hi
Have you ever thought about having a donations page to help with SLIP's finances, so you, and the show, can go places?
That's not a bad idea, and it may help but there's no guarantee. It's atleast being looked into
Well you can get a debit card, a MasterCard at that, at 11 years old. So age isn't really a valid argument here.
You should open a patreon.
+Why Not?
Are you willing to contribute?
I would if I was old enough to have a sustainable source of income but a soon as I get one I will certainly become a supporter. I'm sure others will be willing to donate.
+Chris Eden-Green I would be willing to...
Needs must, you have to earn a living. And true, no artist should work for nothing.
This is all very helpful and informative, but why am I being forced to pay for content? Common!
Nobody's being forced. It's just an option, not an obligation. These videos were already on DVD, so it's pointless to give them away at the same time.
As for common? Try being unable to produce content when there's no way of paying for it in the first place. Instead of being able to pay for the show AND my own living, would you rather I was behind on my taxes?
+Chris Eden-Green
Sorry, typo, should have been 'come on' not common.
Are you behind on your taxes?
Thankfully not, but I would rather not put myself or my crew at such risk.
Like I say in the video, my day work keeps me but has little left over for SLIPs. So, the program has to find ways to become commercially viable if it's going to continue in the long run.
It's a sign of the times that I don't like, but as the advertising money was pitiful and piracy has become a problem, measures like this are becoming necessary evils. I make no apologies to people who think artists should work for nothing.
You should start a "Only-Rails" page. A spin off of Only-Fans :)