1:29 FYI to everybody out there... ATC is asking if you need any kind of vectors and then fire and rescue when you're coming in for the landing, I don't know why they don't say that... the answer is yes. Always yes for fire and rescue with any emergency landing.
Far better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them. Also, the ARFF crews usually welcome a turnout that is uneventful, as it breaks up watchkeeping monotony and provides a good training opportunity.
Congratulations Air Traffic Controllers you were wonderful. Both pilots did a great job. Very partial to Cape Air flew them many times in Virgin Islands and know how competent they are.
Good job by ATC and Pilots. For some reason this whole situation reminds me of Lloyd Bridges in the control tower in the movie Airplane: “I picked the wrong week to quit smoking, . . . etc.”
Smoke in the cockpit is more of an emergency than a multi engine aircraft losing an engine. Good job on ATC on for prioritising one over the other, the jet will also be a lot faster.
@N1120A Exactly correct! I believe this was one of their new Tecnams. While I have thousands of hours in Cessna 400 series, I have no experience in the new Tecnams and can't comment on their engine-out handling. Great job by both crews.
Until they smelled fuel. 100LL and low pressure... so bad pump... or the fuel is going somewhere else? But when you can smell it that means fuel escaping. You have probably got the makings of a flame thrower. 100LL burns way better than Jet-A, or de-icing fluid.
Not disagreeing at all, but 1 engine out in a small piston smelling fuel is a little more nerve wracking and risky than 1 engine out in a big jet. Not the same level of reliability or redundancy. Glad they got them in right after them. It also sounded like Cape Air had two pilots which I'm sure helped, I thought they were often single pilot.
@joeballow they are often single pilot, but I think weather factors into whether they operate single or dual pilot. The risk of a dual engine failure in a piston is extremely small, but the real issue is handling and climb, espeically in icing conditions.
Hmmm. This is a rather new bird. Curious. Fun fact. Those who remember the TV show "Wings", Cape Air's N160PB was featured in the show, and is still actively flying with them. I know, not the incident aircraft.
@@earthwindflier Hate to break it to you, I work for them and saw them scrap that plane. High time and they needed parts to fix it that are hard to come by.
@@ambientcoot8715Hard to believe you guys didn't have the parts to fix her. Back in the 80's when the wing spar AD came out, I met with your Director of Maintenance, Jim, can't remember his last name. He gave me a tour of the facility and it looked like you had enough parts to build several 402's. The extent of the repairs you guys were doing was mind boggling. He should me one 402 they had acquired and it had numerous holes drilled into the spar by some A&P that was attempting to stop drill some skin cracks.
@ Yea Ive heard the story of that spar, but those planes are about 40 years old and they stopped producing the parts for them a while ago, and when you have high time airframes like those planes its just cheaper to retire them then put the parts in to fix them. Sad to see them slowly go away and it doesnt help the tecnams are garbage 😂
@@ambientcoot8715 How high time can it be? They just introduced the Tecnam P2012 in 2019/2020. I guess it's possible Cape Air runs them hard, but their C402s lasted decades. EDIT - Never mind, your second comment clarifies. I've heard nothing good about the Tecnams and man are they overpriced. We had some of your Guam aircraft sitting in Hawaii for a while after they proved themselves useless out there.
I had a similar experience flying on a Cape Air Tecnam back in March from Boston to Rutland (N133CA). Right engine started sputtering immediately after takeoff, but we continued onward until Manchester, NH. The intermittent sputtering became more frequent and we diverted back to Boston.
Ah...yes.....but does he say "tree" and "fife?" Because, if he doesn't, it is unacceptable and should receive proper training and maybe caning is in order. We must follow orders.
This was a very bad idea in my opinion. A single-engine go-around is always risky and in a piston twin even more. Putting Cape Air behind that challenger that was returning due to smoke in the cockpit had a real risk of the Challenger needing to stop on the runway for inspection or evacuation, which would have forced the Tecnam to go around single engine into IMC. They should have used different runways.
"Fuel ah-der". You could hear the confusion in the controller's voice hehe. In fact, the first time around I could only discern what he was saying as it was captioned on the video - otherwise I'd have been puzzled too.
No ILS on 4L. The only extant approach for 4L is an RNAV, and it's just not good enough for this weather (see the METAR in the description), _even_ if that Tecnam could use it. And, if I recall correctly, it's just not in their SOP to land this runway in any case.
@@beater8687 Oh, okay, then I stand corrected on that part. Still, no ILS and the RNAV is not good for the weather even if we assume that Tecnam could fly the LPV :-)
Kind of odd to land two consecutive emergencies on the same runway? You would think they would put them on 4L and R.... what happens if EJA280 had to stop on the runway? I am assuming 4L was closed at the time of the event.
Oh come on no way this happened in real life. This was a FAA training scenario right? Damn what a morning. I did notice one thing that really stands out to me from the radio calls. First of all on Care 24 you can hear the pilot take over the radio calls because no one understood when the co-pilot was saying odor. But what really stands out is how calm the pilot of Care 24 sounded compared to the pilot of the other aircraft. I've been saying for years with law enforcement and flying and a couple other activities either you are mentally built for it or you are not. If you are mentally built for it even when you get in a life-threatening situation almost nobody can tell that you're in a life-threatening situation because your voice is incredibly calm and you are focused on doing your job. If you are not built for those activities you hear emotion in the voice. Those people in life-threatening situations are focusing on their own safety and whether they're going to survive rather than doing their job. The best example I can give of that is the police officer that thought she pulled the taser and actually pulled her handgun and shot the guy driving the car. As soon as she pulled that trigger she stopped being a police officer. She literally started crying and could not function, meanwhile you have an individual in a moving motor vehicle with a bullet in him and civilians that need protection. She was not mentally built for law enforcement. The reason I point this out is there is no way I've been able to think of two screen people to see if they're built for the activity. People that are mentally built to do something don't react to fake life-threatening scenarios because no matter how much they try they know it's fake. It's only when you're in a truly life-threatening situation do you see how that person is mentally made up. The one thing I will tell people is if you have ever been in a life-threatening situation and completely fell apart, couldn't focus and were overwhelmed emotionally please find another activity. Emotions in life-threatening situations will absolutely get you killed. People that are mentally made up for these situations, when I've talked to them or when I was in these situations get the emotional hit after everything is all over. People that see them reacting in the scenario don't see any emotional reaction at all. After the event is over your legs start shaking, it's hard to talk and it's hard to think. The reason that is is because when you're made up that way you simply focus on the job you have to do. Your brain sets aside all the emotions until the situation is over. But emotions do have to come out so once the situation's over you get a dump of emotions. I think if we could find a way to truly screen pilots and law enforcement to make sure they have the general mental makeup, emotional control and emotional fitness to being in those positions we would have a lot fewer tragedies. I'm not saying that someone who is very emotional can't overcome it in the situation but they have to talk themselves down and if it's a life-threatening situation you may not have time to talk yourself down. Anyway I think it's a area of performance that really has not been studied enough and no one has tried to figure out how to build a profile of people that belong in certain industries. If you think about the pilots in a military aircraft that have to eject or a law enforcement officer who's getting shot at and you hear them on the radio aside from the words they're saying you won't be able to tell that they are moments from a catastrophe. On the other hand the people that aren't built for these industries will be talking so fast if not screaming to the point where people can't understand them on the radio. They're not able to overcome that fear to realize that screaming on the radio isn't going to get you any help. I've heard police radio recordings where the dispatcher actually had to tell the officer to slow down because they can't understand anything he's saying over the radio. Not only doesn't that get you help It means that you can't think tactically or clinically enough to get yourself out of the situation. The last thing I'll say is the people that aren't built or aren't mentally made up for those activities, this is not a negative on them. There is nothing wrong with them. They just function on emotion more than other people. They need to be in industries where emotion is the most important thing like social workers or coaching or something like that. They don't need to be doing activities that could lead to a life-threatening situation requiring instantaneous clinical and tactical thinking unclouded by emotion. Anyway I know I'm just talking to myself when I post because no one reads what I write anyway but if someone actually does read it and thinks it's interesting I'd be happy to discuss it.
So what's been going on with planes out of Boston recently? I feel like this is the 2nd or 3rd I've seen this week. Nevermind this is the same incident I saw the other day, just from a different planes perspective
it's a foreign accent, non-native speaker who was simply mispronouncing the word, to the confusion of ATC. you can tell at that point the cair pilots swapped roles, and the native speaker did the rest of the talking.
This was a very bad idea in my opinion. A single-engine go-around is always risky and in a piston twin even more. Putting Cape Air behind that challenger that was returning due to smoke in the cockpit had a real risk of the Challenger needing to stop on the runway for inspection or evacuation, which would have forced the Tecnam to go around single engine into IMC. They should have used different runways.
In an emergency, the Tecnam could get down and stopped behind the Challenger. Not SOP, but well within the possible and the pilot's discretion under the circumstances. When the ATIS is reporting that ILS 4L is in use, that's the only approach to the only runway available at the moment. They put 4 or 5 miles between them, asked the Challenger if he expected to be able to vacate and put the one with the much lower landing speed in second. I think they did an admirable job of handling an extremely irregular situation. They clearly were considering that risk and did what they could to minimize it. They even had the piston twin making turns only toward the good engine - I wouldn't have expected controllers to be aware that left turns would be preferred under the circumstances, without being asked by the pilot. (I have asked for and received lefthand turns only after a right engine shutdown in a Cessna 414).
@@richsarchet9762 ... I see your points, and they are good point. Yet. Boston Logan has ILS to 5 runways so there were 3 other ILS in addition to the one in use and the one to the opposite runway. And there are a lot of RNAV approaches too, including to 4L (the parallel to the one they used) which would have been ideal.
Dear US pilots, it is no shame to use the "Mayday" call. It is designed to grab attention for circumstances like these. Or if you _really_ feel like it's not that serious, you can always opt for the "Pan Pan" call instead. While it is technically okay with phraeseology to just plain words declare an emergency (because in an emegrency ALL phraeseology requirements are deemed mere advisory), it is heavily encouraged to do so because of the limited command of english that is required to operate in international airspace. So please make sure you and all other airmen are safe by using proper phraeseology if and when you can. [Or for the less polite version: Learn to speak aviation english, damn yanks!]
Agreed! Not only that.....but if you are returning because of technical issue ALWAYS ask for assistance! You can always "undeclare" but it's better to have them ready just in case!
Why do you care? You're not a controller, you're not flying the planes. However the pilot wants to handle the situation is up to them and not some self-declared Internet comment section referee. The idea is to get on the ground in one piece. They did that. Declare success...Internet-awarded style points don't matter.
@ Yeah, I see your angle and you are kinda right as I haven't yet flown into this area. However, there ARE quite a lot of pilots who aren't native flying in US airspace, not only around the 3 busiest hubs - and those are FAR more likely to recognize standard phraeseology in general. And obviously it's even more important to understand what's going on when an airplane in your airspace has an emergency. Also, it clears the air of insignificant inquiries and chatter which a misunderstood or missed "we are going to declare" will not. Or in short: Why do I care if people don't signal when they change lanes? Well, because then *I* don't know what they are doing and neither is anybody else. Does that analogy make sense? The "mayday" call is not just for ATC and the pilot involved but for everybody on frequency. And thus it should be used. [I also DO have a pet peeve with US pilots in general using plain language instead of proper aviation english phraeseology, seemingly not understanding that the international language of aviation is NOT plain english - but this video is about emergencies, so I highlighted the importance in emergencies. Seemed topical to me...]
@@buckhorncortez because you always default…. Or you should default to the “highest level” of assistance. Honestly it’s a confusion from the get go. A mayday is essentially declaring an emergency. If you elect to NOT declare it makes for a very confused situation. Honestly requesting assistance even if you don’t “use” it…. Only requires a few minutes of your time with the firefighters and if you’d company has one (an ASAP report). I say this as a 24 year airline pilot…. Of which about 17 of those years was a a captain and a line check airmen. No judgement yo those involved but I will ALWAYS take extra help… just in case!!
The execjet panicked like a kitten tossed into a dog pound. Calm TF down dude, smoke in the cockpit (which I’ve experienced three times in professional piloting), isn’t gonna bring the aircraft crashing down all of a sudden.
Ah, nice. So this one overlaps with the smoke-in-cockpit from yesterday. Usual completely casual 'emergency' communications. "blah blah blah it's a MAYDAY". I guess he met the concept of putting MAYDAY in the first call on changing frequency. People will be offended that I think this is amateur, because to them the most important thing is that he sounds cool. If it was an emergency why didn't they go to Bedford, which is a lot closer to where they had the problem. Or Manchester which was straight ahead. Boston is better for them because thy have engineering there, but if the 'oddur' of fuel had turned into a fire they'd have been landing in water, buildings, or trees... but that's New England for you.
Great job by all……..Why would they not have one plane lined up (KAP24) for a 4L in case something happens or they need to stop on landing to EJA260 on 4R…….
No ILS to 4L and it was closed for snow. The LPV mins to 4L would be more than sufficient for CAIR, who have WAAS and full glass on those P2012s, but the closure didn't help
Newer plane not prone to breaking. My thoughts are with the poor souls who had to go back to Boston. 🤮. They should have made Netjets just go to Bedford due to another emergency as they had it first. Would have been a shorter flight than trying to turn around back for Boston.
Good SOP’s would dictate the departure briefing included an emergency return brief, with ILS frequency pre-tuned in standby. If they tried to send me somewhere IFR with no pre-brief and smoke in the cockpit I would refuse. I think everyone did a fine job.
Smoke in the cockpit is definitely a Mayday. It happened to me once in a Cessna 150 and scared the hell out of me. Luckily I was right near the airport.
@@dannyrusso8279 They didn't have smoke in the cockpit. That was the other plane. They had a single engine failure, and some time later they had a bit of fuel odour which (iirc) went away when they fully shut down the failed engine. Definitely a PAN PAN by definition. The other plane had an obvious MAYDAY situation.
@@Juttutin I see what you’re saying but it’s also important to remember that when it initially happened they’re smelling fuel and it could have been a potential fire risk. It’s also one thing to have an engine failure but another to have it in IMC. Those combos in that moment could definitely justify a mayday call. If there wasn’t a second simultaneous emergency nobody would even question if it would have been better to make it a pan pan.
@someguyontheinternet7165 when it initially happened they were NOT smelling fuel. Regardless, MAYDAY is for an IMMEDIATE threat to life. This was not that. There is a vast difference between a single engine issue and a touch of fuel smell, and smoke in the cockpit (or any fire indication). This difference IS the reason for the distinction between MAYDAY and PAN PAN.
METAR KBOS 111254Z 34004KT 1 3/4SM R04R/3500V5000FT -SN BR BKN020 OVC028 M01/M03 A2956 RMK AO2 SLP010 P0002 T10111028 $=
EJA260 Challenger Smoke Emergency Video ruclips.net/video/DV_Aj0koaeE/видео.htmlsi=-ogWQCYMEjq87Ln5
Sure are a lot of incidents out of Boston!
@@tomwilson1006 It's the cold weather , engines seem to fail more often
This is when we are all glad that the ATC also does simulations. Cool. Calm. Collected. Great job everyone!
The panic in that EJ pilots voice 😢
Glad all went well. Good job guys 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Finally. I’ve been waiting for someone to upload audio from Cape Air. They never get talked about. Also, great job by both the pilot and ATC.
1:29 FYI to everybody out there... ATC is asking if you need any kind of vectors and then fire and rescue when you're coming in for the landing, I don't know why they don't say that... the answer is yes. Always yes for fire and rescue with any emergency landing.
Far better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them. Also, the ARFF crews usually welcome a turnout that is uneventful, as it breaks up watchkeeping monotony and provides a good training opportunity.
Congratulations Air Traffic Controllers you were wonderful. Both pilots did a great job. Very partial to Cape Air flew them many times in Virgin Islands and know how competent they are.
Good job by ATC and Pilots. For some reason this whole situation reminds me of Lloyd Bridges in the control tower in the movie Airplane: “I picked the wrong week to quit smoking, . . . etc.”
I want to be an ATC and this channel really helps me!
Controller gets whatever the highest award a controller can get- handled simultaneous emergencies PERFECTLY!
And Cape Air pilots performed like an A+ major carrier crew.
Sporty day over Boston....
Smoke in the cockpit is more of an emergency than a multi engine aircraft losing an engine. Good job on ATC on for prioritising one over the other, the jet will also be a lot faster.
Depends on the multi. One of Cape Air's 402s would be pretty tough in climb, low speed, on one engine
@N1120A Exactly correct! I believe this was one of their new Tecnams. While I have thousands of hours in Cessna 400 series, I have no experience in the new Tecnams and can't comment on their engine-out handling. Great job by both crews.
Until they smelled fuel. 100LL and low pressure... so bad pump... or the fuel is going somewhere else? But when you can smell it that means fuel escaping. You have probably got the makings of a flame thrower. 100LL burns way better than Jet-A, or de-icing fluid.
Not disagreeing at all, but 1 engine out in a small piston smelling fuel is a little more nerve wracking and risky than 1 engine out in a big jet. Not the same level of reliability or redundancy. Glad they got them in right after them. It also sounded like Cape Air had two pilots which I'm sure helped, I thought they were often single pilot.
@joeballow they are often single pilot, but I think weather factors into whether they operate single or dual pilot. The risk of a dual engine failure in a piston is extremely small, but the real issue is handling and climb, espeically in icing conditions.
One approach controller with two simultaneous emergency aircraft = a rough day in Boston!
@@dominicdahlheimer6861 handled like a champ. No discrete frequency, everything they needed was taken care of.
Love cape air, they fly into Lebanon NH and they’re awesome. They also overfly Lebanon from Boston to Rutland VT and Saranac Lake NY
Hmmm. This is a rather new bird. Curious.
Fun fact. Those who remember the TV show "Wings", Cape Air's N160PB was featured in the show, and is still actively flying with them. I know, not the incident aircraft.
@@earthwindflier Hate to break it to you, I work for them and saw them scrap that plane. High time and they needed parts to fix it that are hard to come by.
@@ambientcoot8715 My mistake. Thanks for the update. For some reason I thought it was that one of the three used still in service.
@@ambientcoot8715Hard to believe you guys didn't have the parts to fix her. Back in the 80's when the wing spar AD came out, I met with your Director of Maintenance, Jim, can't remember his last name. He gave me a tour of the facility and it looked like you had enough parts to build several 402's. The extent of the repairs you guys were doing was mind boggling. He should me one 402 they had acquired and it had numerous holes drilled into the spar by some A&P that was attempting to stop drill some skin cracks.
@ Yea Ive heard the story of that spar, but those planes are about 40 years old and they stopped producing the parts for them a while ago, and when you have high time airframes like those planes its just cheaper to retire them then put the parts in to fix them. Sad to see them slowly go away and it doesnt help the tecnams are garbage 😂
@@ambientcoot8715 How high time can it be? They just introduced the Tecnam P2012 in 2019/2020. I guess it's possible Cape Air runs them hard, but their C402s lasted decades.
EDIT - Never mind, your second comment clarifies. I've heard nothing good about the Tecnams and man are they overpriced. We had some of your Guam aircraft sitting in Hawaii for a while after they proved themselves useless out there.
I had a similar experience flying on a Cape Air Tecnam back in March from Boston to Rutland (N133CA). Right engine started sputtering immediately after takeoff, but we continued onward until Manchester, NH. The intermittent sputtering became more frequent and we diverted back to Boston.
Nice to hear the KBOS approach controller using ICAO "decimal" for frequencies. Probably a reflection of all the international traffic they handle.
Ah...yes.....but does he say "tree" and "fife?" Because, if he doesn't, it is unacceptable and should receive proper training and maybe caning is in order. We must follow orders.
No one cares
Those fuel otters can be nasty
ATC…calm, cool and collected
Thanks for the video🙏
Thank you for watching!
Bravo Cape Air !!
KBOS is my back yard thanks for covering it!
3:30 is pronouncing “Odor” like that a Boston thing?
He “pahked his cahr in hahvud yahd” and glad he land landed safely 'cause he “cahn't git dahr from hehr”. (I’m a born and raised New Englander)
No, that's a foreign accent. A Bostonian would pronounce it like "OH-duh."
boston resident here. I’ve never heard someone pronounce it like that 😂
I thought he said "otter."
I noticed that as well. Sounded closer to "otter" than "odour" to me as a non-native :D
KAP24 sounds like that guy from Daily Dose of Aviation: "Thankfully Nobodywa Sinjured..."
Thanks!
Not that common to hear ATC perform emergency sequencing..😁 Well done!
This was a very bad idea in my opinion. A single-engine go-around is always risky and in a piston twin even more.
Putting Cape Air behind that challenger that was returning due to smoke in the cockpit had a real risk of the Challenger needing to stop on the runway for inspection or evacuation, which would have forced the Tecnam to go around single engine into IMC. They should have used different runways.
Don't think the odds are that high with two emergencies at same time. Well done.
Boston must have been running a sale on MAYDAY's.
They must have some tough check airmen in Boston if they are giving checkrides in actual instrument conditions.
Fuel otters, the most nefarious mustelid.
What was with that? Twice! Some Minnesota accent? (I just rewatched Fargo 🙂)
I got a feeling the other pilot took comms when he heard "fuel otter" 🙃
this is like that one movie where there's a terrorist attack and they show you different perspectives of it
"Fuel ah-der". You could hear the confusion in the controller's voice hehe. In fact, the first time around I could only discern what he was saying as it was captioned on the video - otherwise I'd have been puzzled too.
Great job.. ATC
Starting at 5:18, apparently 4L unable to be used, or why have both emergency aircraft planning for the same runway?
4L was closed due to snow.
No ILS on 4L. The only extant approach for 4L is an RNAV, and it's just not good enough for this weather (see the METAR in the description), _even_ if that Tecnam could use it.
And, if I recall correctly, it's just not in their SOP to land this runway in any case.
@@intelfx86 4L does get used as an arrival runway, on that day it was closed due to snow.
@@beater8687 Oh, okay, then I stand corrected on that part. Still, no ILS and the RNAV is not good for the weather even if we assume that Tecnam could fly the LPV :-)
@intelfx86 the weather the approach controller read would have worked, but it was closed
Kind of odd to land two consecutive emergencies on the same runway? You would think they would put them on 4L and R.... what happens if EJA280 had to stop on the runway? I am assuming 4L was closed at the time of the event.
4L was closed due to snow.
Oh come on no way this happened in real life. This was a FAA training scenario right? Damn what a morning.
I did notice one thing that really stands out to me from the radio calls. First of all on Care 24 you can hear the pilot take over the radio calls because no one understood when the co-pilot was saying odor. But what really stands out is how calm the pilot of Care 24 sounded compared to the pilot of the other aircraft. I've been saying for years with law enforcement and flying and a couple other activities either you are mentally built for it or you are not. If you are mentally built for it even when you get in a life-threatening situation almost nobody can tell that you're in a life-threatening situation because your voice is incredibly calm and you are focused on doing your job. If you are not built for those activities you hear emotion in the voice. Those people in life-threatening situations are focusing on their own safety and whether they're going to survive rather than doing their job. The best example I can give of that is the police officer that thought she pulled the taser and actually pulled her handgun and shot the guy driving the car. As soon as she pulled that trigger she stopped being a police officer. She literally started crying and could not function, meanwhile you have an individual in a moving motor vehicle with a bullet in him and civilians that need protection. She was not mentally built for law enforcement.
The reason I point this out is there is no way I've been able to think of two screen people to see if they're built for the activity. People that are mentally built to do something don't react to fake life-threatening scenarios because no matter how much they try they know it's fake. It's only when you're in a truly life-threatening situation do you see how that person is mentally made up. The one thing I will tell people is if you have ever been in a life-threatening situation and completely fell apart, couldn't focus and were overwhelmed emotionally please find another activity. Emotions in life-threatening situations will absolutely get you killed. People that are mentally made up for these situations, when I've talked to them or when I was in these situations get the emotional hit after everything is all over. People that see them reacting in the scenario don't see any emotional reaction at all. After the event is over your legs start shaking, it's hard to talk and it's hard to think. The reason that is is because when you're made up that way you simply focus on the job you have to do. Your brain sets aside all the emotions until the situation is over. But emotions do have to come out so once the situation's over you get a dump of emotions.
I think if we could find a way to truly screen pilots and law enforcement to make sure they have the general mental makeup, emotional control and emotional fitness to being in those positions we would have a lot fewer tragedies. I'm not saying that someone who is very emotional can't overcome it in the situation but they have to talk themselves down and if it's a life-threatening situation you may not have time to talk yourself down.
Anyway I think it's a area of performance that really has not been studied enough and no one has tried to figure out how to build a profile of people that belong in certain industries. If you think about the pilots in a military aircraft that have to eject or a law enforcement officer who's getting shot at and you hear them on the radio aside from the words they're saying you won't be able to tell that they are moments from a catastrophe. On the other hand the people that aren't built for these industries will be talking so fast if not screaming to the point where people can't understand them on the radio. They're not able to overcome that fear to realize that screaming on the radio isn't going to get you any help. I've heard police radio recordings where the dispatcher actually had to tell the officer to slow down because they can't understand anything he's saying over the radio. Not only doesn't that get you help It means that you can't think tactically or clinically enough to get yourself out of the situation.
The last thing I'll say is the people that aren't built or aren't mentally made up for those activities, this is not a negative on them. There is nothing wrong with them. They just function on emotion more than other people. They need to be in industries where emotion is the most important thing like social workers or coaching or something like that. They don't need to be doing activities that could lead to a life-threatening situation requiring instantaneous clinical and tactical thinking unclouded by emotion.
Anyway I know I'm just talking to myself when I post because no one reads what I write anyway but if someone actually does read it and thinks it's interesting I'd be happy to discuss it.
Interesting, it's usually one of the old Cessna 402Cs in their fleet that has an engine or landing gear issue.
DUAL emergencies for KBOS on this one!
So what's been going on with planes out of Boston recently? I feel like this is the 2nd or 3rd I've seen this week.
Nevermind this is the same incident I saw the other day, just from a different planes perspective
I don't recognize that accent of ah-der for the word odor.
He was referring to an actual animal on board, the fuel otter
@@oelschlegelhahahhaahhahaaa. Fuel otters are so cute 😂
@@oelschlegel lol
@@oelschlegel a critical component, along with the oil marmot and hydraulic ferret
it's a foreign accent, non-native speaker who was simply mispronouncing the word, to the confusion of ATC. you can tell at that point the cair pilots swapped roles, and the native speaker did the rest of the talking.
When departing from Boston, always be sure to inspect your aircraft for fuel otters before takeoff.
This was a very bad idea in my opinion. A single-engine go-around is always risky and in a piston twin even more.
Putting Cape Air behind that challenger that was returning due to smoke in the cockpit had a real risk of the Challenger needing to stop on the runway for inspection or evacuation, which would have forced the Tecnam to go around single engine into IMC. They should have used different runways.
In an emergency, the Tecnam could get down and stopped behind the Challenger. Not SOP, but well within the possible and the pilot's discretion under the circumstances. When the ATIS is reporting that ILS 4L is in use, that's the only approach to the only runway available at the moment. They put 4 or 5 miles between them, asked the Challenger if he expected to be able to vacate and put the one with the much lower landing speed in second. I think they did an admirable job of handling an extremely irregular situation. They clearly were considering that risk and did what they could to minimize it. They even had the piston twin making turns only toward the good engine - I wouldn't have expected controllers to be aware that left turns would be preferred under the circumstances, without being asked by the pilot. (I have asked for and received lefthand turns only after a right engine shutdown in a Cessna 414).
@@richsarchet9762 ... I see your points, and they are good point. Yet. Boston Logan has ILS to 5 runways so there were 3 other ILS in addition to the one in use and the one to the opposite runway. And there are a lot of RNAV approaches too, including to 4L (the parallel to the one they used) which would have been ideal.
No notice yet.
busy day....
Mocha HAGoTDI
Cape air, Cape air.
Typical rotax.
I didn't hear anyone ask for the number of souls onboard.
Try at 4:10.
Dear US pilots,
it is no shame to use the "Mayday" call. It is designed to grab attention for circumstances like these. Or if you _really_ feel like it's not that serious, you can always opt for the "Pan Pan" call instead. While it is technically okay with phraeseology to just plain words declare an emergency (because in an emegrency ALL phraeseology requirements are deemed mere advisory), it is heavily encouraged to do so because of the limited command of english that is required to operate in international airspace. So please make sure you and all other airmen are safe by using proper phraeseology if and when you can.
[Or for the less polite version: Learn to speak aviation english, damn yanks!]
Agreed! Not only that.....but if you are returning because of technical issue ALWAYS ask for assistance! You can always "undeclare" but it's better to have them ready just in case!
Why do you care? You're not a controller, you're not flying the planes. However the pilot wants to handle the situation is up to them and not some self-declared Internet comment section referee. The idea is to get on the ground in one piece. They did that. Declare success...Internet-awarded style points don't matter.
@ Yeah, I see your angle and you are kinda right as I haven't yet flown into this area. However, there ARE quite a lot of pilots who aren't native flying in US airspace, not only around the 3 busiest hubs - and those are FAR more likely to recognize standard phraeseology in general. And obviously it's even more important to understand what's going on when an airplane in your airspace has an emergency. Also, it clears the air of insignificant inquiries and chatter which a misunderstood or missed "we are going to declare" will not.
Or in short:
Why do I care if people don't signal when they change lanes? Well, because then *I* don't know what they are doing and neither is anybody else. Does that analogy make sense?
The "mayday" call is not just for ATC and the pilot involved but for everybody on frequency. And thus it should be used.
[I also DO have a pet peeve with US pilots in general using plain language instead of proper aviation english phraeseology, seemingly not understanding that the international language of aviation is NOT plain english - but this video is about emergencies, so I highlighted the importance in emergencies. Seemed topical to me...]
@@QemeH
“Roll the trucks!”
Yep, USA aviation is certainly different! It’s quite eye opening when you first fly there. But fun to watch.
@@buckhorncortez because you always default…. Or you should default to the “highest level” of assistance. Honestly it’s a confusion from the get go. A mayday is essentially declaring an emergency. If you elect to NOT declare it makes for a very confused situation.
Honestly requesting assistance even if you don’t “use” it…. Only requires a few minutes of your time with the firefighters and if you’d company has one (an ASAP report).
I say this as a 24 year airline pilot…. Of which about 17 of those years was a a captain and a line check airmen.
No judgement yo those involved but I will ALWAYS take extra help… just in case!!
The execjet panicked like a kitten tossed into a dog pound. Calm TF down dude, smoke in the cockpit (which I’ve experienced three times in professional piloting), isn’t gonna bring the aircraft crashing down all of a sudden.
Actually, it can be the only early sign of something that will. But panicking doesn't help anyone, least of all yourself.
@ Exactly.
Ah, nice. So this one overlaps with the smoke-in-cockpit from yesterday. Usual completely casual 'emergency' communications. "blah blah blah it's a MAYDAY". I guess he met the concept of putting MAYDAY in the first call on changing frequency. People will be offended that I think this is amateur, because to them the most important thing is that he sounds cool. If it was an emergency why didn't they go to Bedford, which is a lot closer to where they had the problem. Or Manchester which was straight ahead. Boston is better for them because thy have engineering there, but if the 'oddur' of fuel had turned into a fire they'd have been landing in water, buildings, or trees... but that's New England for you.
Because they didn't know that until they were already in the downwind for Boston. Did you watch the video?
Great job by all……..Why would they not have one plane lined up (KAP24) for a 4L in case something happens or they need to stop on landing to EJA260 on 4R…….
4L was closed due to snow.
Weather permitting they have to set up for the approach into 4R. 4L doesn’t have as low as minimums.
@@beater8687 Thank you very much
@@Turbo5080 Thank you
No ILS to 4L and it was closed for snow. The LPV mins to 4L would be more than sufficient for CAIR, who have WAAS and full glass on those P2012s, but the closure didn't help
Newer plane not prone to breaking. My thoughts are with the poor souls who had to go back to Boston. 🤮. They should have made Netjets just go to Bedford due to another emergency as they had it first. Would have been a shorter flight than trying to turn around back for Boston.
Good SOP’s would dictate the departure briefing included an emergency return brief, with ILS frequency pre-tuned in standby. If they tried to send me somewhere IFR with no pre-brief and smoke in the cockpit I would refuse. I think everyone did a fine job.
@@MarkMurray-q4lexactly
Should have been PAN PAN not MAYDAY on this one.
Smoke in the cockpit is definitely a Mayday. It happened to me once in a Cessna 150 and scared the hell out of me. Luckily I was right near the airport.
@@dannyrusso8279 They didn't have smoke in the cockpit. That was the other plane. They had a single engine failure, and some time later they had a bit of fuel odour which (iirc) went away when they fully shut down the failed engine.
Definitely a PAN PAN by definition. The other plane had an obvious MAYDAY situation.
@@Juttutin I see what you’re saying but it’s also important to remember that when it initially happened they’re smelling fuel and it could have been a potential fire risk. It’s also one thing to have an engine failure but another to have it in IMC. Those combos in that moment could definitely justify a mayday call. If there wasn’t a second simultaneous emergency nobody would even question if it would have been better to make it a pan pan.
@someguyontheinternet7165 when it initially happened they were NOT smelling fuel. Regardless, MAYDAY is for an IMMEDIATE threat to life. This was not that. There is a vast difference between a single engine issue and a touch of fuel smell, and smoke in the cockpit (or any fire indication). This difference IS the reason for the distinction between MAYDAY and PAN PAN.
Would not have changed anything, controller understood problem and handled them as an emergency.
Fuel Awder?? lack of grammar instruction.FFS
English NOT his first language?
This must be bait.