It is interesting how Odile sort of went from cold perfection to a more seductive, evil look. I guess it is dancers responding to what the audience is looking for. This character certainly gets a ton of mileage out of not really all that much time on stage
To be honest, I find the newer versions more technically perfect and yes, more seductive. In the first videos you can see the ballerinas' bodies going diagonally when they spin. The last two have perfect straight postures. They also seem more slim and have longer legs, which I think adds to the sense of seductiveness.
I was born in 1942 in Havana, Cuba. My family held tickets for the “Musical Pro-Art Society”, which presented ballet, opera, symphony and drama productions as well as touring soloists of classical music. Since I was 4 it was my joy to see Alicia Alonso in all the rôles of the classical repertoire, usually 3 times a year. Giselle was my favorite, with Swan Lake a close second. What fascinated me most was the difference between Odette- warm, shy, gentle, playful, - and Odile- cold, precise, aloof, cutting. By 1947, I found myself in London with my parents and we went to see Swan Lake; I don’t remember who was the prima ballerina in that production, but I remember going to a restaurant afterwards and expressing a strange feeling of disappointment, despite the far more lavish scenery and costumes. As a child, my appreciation was for the storytelling and the personages of the tale. The rigorously exact steps were not able to communicate as well. In fact, over the years I’ve had difficulties embracing perfect technique with extreme extensions and total exactitude of positions. Regardless of how athletic and physically perfect they are, if a dancer doesn’t speak his/her role through the choreography, the performance is moot to me. When both aspects are present in dance, it’s a wonderful experience!
The orchestra is so different in the older versions I have to wonder what it was originally intended to sound like by Tchaikovsky and if we've come closer now or only drifted further away from his original vision. I would give so much to see what the original Swan Lake looked and sounded like!
Their performances aren’t really very different, but the way they were recorded is. The later ones, recorded live in theaters, are using much more sensitive mics that pick up the lower registers way better, plus they are picking up in the acoustics of the sound bouncing around the larger space. The earlier ones sound like they were recorded in smaller, acoustically “drier” spaces with much more limited microphones.
A failure. The first staging of Swan lake failed. So the way the music is alligned, sounds was changed as long as the choreography before the ballet became the hit we know today.
I wonder if the choreography has changed and evolved as dancers became more athletic and skills more bold? I wonder if the music we are hearing was added by the poster since it’s the same on every dancer.
I also thought that her moves are the softest of them all and her body is exceptionally smooth. No hesistation or preparation before moves are executed, the sequence is just flowing. That´s what i as a layperson see
She's absolutely exceptional. The movie version of Swan Lake done in 1968 is one of my favorites and I was floored by her performance the first time I saw it. Her Odile is Odile pretending to be Odette (and not Odile being Odile). She's so charming and enchanting you can understand why the prince was willing to believe she was the Swan Queen.
Yes. All that you say is true. This performance is perfectly lovely. I'm thinking, however, that viewers are holding back with comments because there are places in this performance where she is just slightly off her center. The placement of her feet is just a bit off, for certain steps, and consequently her center of gravity shifts. This is where she seems to tip to one side, in a way that is barely noticeable, but also somewhat distracting. Your comment has me thinking that it is possible that the producer of this video made a deliberate choice to present a slightly off performance by this dancer, to show off the third and the fourth, in a comparison. That would be the usual process, for youtube videos of this type.
Osipova was technically superb but Murphy’s interpretation was absolutely gripping....she looked magical. It is difficult to compare ‘progression’ when the dancers are already diverse in their abilities. Certainly the earlier version footwork and balance looked less accurate
I like Murphy's version better less cold and more alluring. I like also smoothness of Murphy's moves more than Osipova athletic and more technical approach.
I absolutely loved the way Gillian Murphy (2005) embodied Odile. Every move she made and her gaze, she made it all seem completely effortless. Such elegance, she moved with such grace, she wasn't stiff once, pretty much every move of hers was circular and flowy, so fluid, they remind me of the way birds move
I’m no dancer, but after forty years of training and competing in womens sport, I’m seeing shifts over time here that mirror development across the entire spectrum of womens sport - and ballerinas are pro athletes, they’ll tell you that. Better injury treatment, nutrition, addressing the demands that women starve themselves, and better sport science in general has gotten into ballet schools like it has everywhere else and given better transitions, better power, greater ability for directors to exploit. Dance does not exist in a silo, a good company will use better science to get better dancers. As a fencer I saw the same things from 1977 to 2010, you can run tape from 1968 of any sport vs now and see this. You have better dance athletes giving better performances because they can.
This is so true, technically. Artistry, musicality and interpretation, though - they're something else again. In those areas, some older stars had what some newer stars don't, despite technical advancement. In addition, I think there are a lot of modern dancers who would give a lot for Alicia Alonso's balance. Or Anthony Dowell's. To this day, so far as I've seen, no one can do des Grieux in Manon technically as well as Anthony Dowell did (especially the Act I solo), with the one exception of Vadim Muntagirov. Muntagirov has everything, (and it helps he's a lefty, as Dowell was).
Its amazing to watch the difference in the body types of dancers back in the 50s and 60s. Before Balanchine, women could be athletic and still have enough weight on them to keep their curves - previous generations of dancers were able to keep their careers going all the way into their 40s. Now, because of hyper extension and malnutrition, dancers are already injured with back problems by their late 20s.
I noticed that as well, the first two dancers while athletic still looked slightly curvy compared to modern-day ones. You can really see that in their legs and shoulders. I don't know anything about ballet though so I don't know why this change happened or whether it has positive/negative effects on the dancers
If you do not eat good you do not have strenght and power to do all that. The dancers eat goed but they burn a lot of calories during the work out. It is a myth about malnutrition. A lot of them smoke also. My daughter is a dancer
absolutely! They had the more 50s kind of ideal of curves...thin, but curvy. Once Balenchine became popular, it was anorexic and athletic. I was just explaining to someone above, who is a fencer, that thought there was better support for injury and nutrition. Ha! It's an art form, not a sport, and that hyper flexibility and malnutrition we know runs rampant
@@tolde are you kidding me? In professional companies, the dancers starved. Our company only allowed the women to have a handful pf candy all day while training. Of course the body needs fuel, but the person has an excellent point; once Balenchine hit the scene, the style was starvation thin and hard training. Think Gelsie Kirkland in the 70s. The 50s ballerina looked completely different from her; 50s one probably cooked dinner for her family before performance...70s was anorexic.
Osipova is a genius in a class of her own for the past twenty years (and I suspect her greatest years are coming to a close). Alonso was forty-seven when she did this performance. More importantly, Alonso was not filmed while dancing the variation on stage at a theatre or during a performance. This was a ghastly, made for TV, dumbed-down version of Odile, it was photographed terribly, it wasn’t a proper dance floor. Filming dance back in the 1960s and 1970s was a nightmare. It was very difficult, the equipment was awful, the technical ability was dreadful. That’s why we are missing so many, many great performances. The Russians filmed everything always so we are lucky to see so many minor ballerinas we would have never seen in the west.
I don’t think her greatest years are coming to a close, she’s only 36. Sarah Lamb and Marianela Nuñez are in their early forties and still exquisite. She’s hitting her prime now with the maturity of her technique and acting ability. I predict she’ll have her own company when she does retire from performing as often (hopefully not for a while yet). Alessandra Ferri is 59 and still performing brilliantly for the Royal Ballet.
And who prevented to film major dancers in your country? I even do not know what to think of your comment. There are really many, many wonderful ballet dancers in Russia, we are lucky that some of them were filmed. Filming was always expensive, so if a ballet dancer was filmed - that was the reason for that.
@@melissatranfield4054 I agree, perhaps the best years of Osipova are coming to end. After all, 36 for ballet is quite a number, the body possibilities have limits, unfortunately.
Каждая балерина - мастер и хороша по-своему. Сравнивать сценическую и студийную запись не совсем корректно. Кроме того, они танцуют разные редакции этой вариации. С удовольствием посмотрела все четыре исполнения.
Вообще четыре танцовщицы это мало , чтоб сравнить . И потом , а почему Плисецкой нет в этой подборке ? Самый прекрасный и известный русский "лебедь" . У нее Одиллия тоже хороша .
Видна тенденция к упрощению партии. В последней версии больше половины элементов выброшены, либо заменены на упрощенный аналог, что никак не красит партию, выглядит скупо и неинтересно.
Interesting… I expected the dancers to be more impressive over the years and while flexibility extension fluidity and technique might have some gains over Alicia … Alicia is the only one who accomplished 5 pirouettes 👏👏👏👏👏
@@IfeelMT I was a very young girl and had the honor of dancing a bit part with National Ballet of Cuba 🇨🇺🩰 right before Dame Alonso passed. I was so little but in awe of the fact that she’d be brought on the stage by wheelchair ♿️ with the curtains down for final bows, but she mustered the strength to stand up and bow like the Prima Ballerina Assoluta that she was without the audience ever knowing. Never let them see you sweat. I’ll never forget and vowed to dance and live like that, like everyone is watching. Brava!🇧🇷🇵🇹🩰
Her posture was better and her moves more graceful and carefree than the newer ballerinas. Which is crazy because she is visibly weighing a bit more than the younger ballerinas so you would think she’d struggle more. I noticed the newer ballerinas also have a more bony and muscular look that makes their moves look less easy-flowing and more mechanical and rigid. The two earlier clips of those ballerinas were very magical on the eyes, looked beautiful.
@@honeysweetbunbun да 👏🏻 пожалуйста, I appreciate having been coached by Ирина Колпакова and other primas from mainly the Большо́й . Their artistry, epaulement, everything down to the fingertips was addressed. Yes, I’m more of the bony and athletic type (naturally) but that didn’t matter to me or especially my Ballet Mistresses and artistic directors.🇧🇷🇵🇹🇷🇺🩰
In the first dance the choreography has pauses where I can see the shape of a bird in the pose. The modern choreography is constant spins and the arms are always acting as wings, so I can’t see the long neck poses.
yes, same feeling for me, I like when there is variation in the rythm, giving more sense to the move; dance must express something, not be just a performance... whatever the talent of these dancers.
I actually preferred the very first one. I'd love to see it in the outfit in the last performance. but the more technical the moves got the more motion sick I became... but I'm really glad to see that changes are made as time moves on. there are many choices
Alicia just whipping out a quintuple pirouette on not-so-supportive pointe shoes (0:15) like it's the easiest thing in the world 😍 You should do this same video with the other version of the Odile variation (the sinister sounding Russian version with the oboe)!
Oh wow! Odile is one of my favorite ballet characters! A difference I observed was the changing head pieces (; Nevertheless, though this is considered as canon, there are also some alternate versions with the different music from the Pas de six. It's hard to imagine that Odile wasn't interpreted as Black Swan before the 1940es (though, Petipa had introduced Black Swans into Act 4...), but it seems like intended by Tchaikovsky himself (;
@@НатальяКоролёва-е2и I think the main problem are her swan movements- with those she is pretending to be Odette. Also Odette is not a swan on stage, but rather hinting her swan enchantment with her movements. This is the other common mistake and often target of parody. Swan Lake gets constantly mistaken with "The dying swan" - actually Odette's "classic, but actually modern" swan tutu is based on Anna Pavlola's dress, and so there the tradition is from. Plus, "Black swan" is probably more poetic than the darker imagination of a demon. Yet, there is also "Arrival of black swans" a piece by Richard Wagner, and it reminds me also greatly of Pas de Six No 2 (Andante con moto), and Odile's instrument is also like Odette's the oboe, which is fitting to the whole swan connection....Which means, that Odile is also not a black swan on stage, but black swans are also associated with demons (There's also an opera by Siegfried Wagner: "Realm of the Black swans").
I think what I noticed most was the shoes. The blocks on the two earlier dancers' shoes (Alonso and Evteyeva) are noticeably smaller than the ones on the more modern dancers'. I think it lends a lighter feel to their performance and likely makes it more difficult to remain en pointe. Also, just my two cents, but I prefer the sets of chasses in the earlier performances than the bourrees tournant. It suits the character/music better.
imho her Odette is one of the best, if not the best, out there. Her Odile is more a seductress/hot girl than someone evil... the best Odile I've found so far has to go to Monica Perego. Awful costume but she really, really exudes evil with the variation. it's the original Odile variation, though, not the Mischievous Child.
Gillian murphy was my favourite, to me her arms were perfect, she was silky smooth in her movements, I cant deny the sheer capacities of Osipova, but to me its just like in iceskating showing their physical prowess takes a bit from the art/the message. I personally would love to see Osipova in very strong roles like an evil queen or something of the sort, I'm going to search for that, and it's very interesting to see the little changes
i’ve always loved baller I but I didn’t know the names of the dancers. Having watched all four I really enjoyed watching Elena in 68. It really feels like you are watching someone who has just connected with the joy in the energy of dance and she dances like there is no one else around. Plus the lines of her body and feet are just absolutely amazing. I feel like the ones that came after it’s almost like a competitive endurance sport. I don’t feel the connection to the music or the character as much. But like of all things it is personal choice
I understand that Alonso's performance was edited and the others were one take, but she was so mesmerizing. She was giving face and it felt like I was watching a story unfold as opposed to a dance performance. All 4 dancers are stunning and amazing.
I want to see grace, elegance and story telling together with alignment to the music and beautiful lines. These came from the earlier dancers. The most recent dancer slung her arms and legs around as if she were in a gymnastics or acrobatic performance. Sometimes less is more. In these examples less is much more
@Flonoii Sana I disagree. I think she was more of contortionist than ballerina, of course many don’t agree with me. Ballet is subjective of course, unless we’re talking about technique (which would mean 1960s-1990s Vaganova graduates are the best obviously).
I play classical music but have never been able to really appreciate ballet. By seeing these performances back to back and reading the comments of those who really know ballet, I can get a better sense of how different airs are conveyed and I'm looking forward to seeing my next ballet with this education!
I was already amased that dansers could perform so that even I (with NO ballet knowledge what so ever, I just enjoy seeing it) up under the ceiling on the cheapest seats, can see Odette and Odile’s different personalities! Seeing the same dance lined up like this leaves me flabbergasted 🤯
Всё не то. Технично ,четко, но не то. Кто видел Майю Плисецкую в роли Одилии,тот поймёт.В ее исполнении столько душевности,жизнелюбия, любви.Она жила танцем.Сердце замирает,когда смотришь на танец Майи.А тут не ёкает,совсем. Не хочу никого обидеть,это только моё субъективное мнение.
I enjoyed all of the dancers. Yes, extension is higher and maybe more turns (did I see Alonso do a quad pirouette on pointe?) Although this section of the 'Black Swan" was not shown I do not like how they changed the 32 fouette section with putting double pirouettes in-between the fouettes. Harder technique is not always better.
How to pretend to be a young woman pretending to be another young woman? Is she cold temptress, innocent pawn or a bit of both? And does she secretly actually begin to find Siegfried attractive as they dance together? Does she feel any remorse? How much has Rothbart told her; the whole plot, or only to dance to impress? I guess all these are up to the individual ADs and artists. I really enjoyed these different interpretations, all technically brilliant for their time and all with different nuances. I can’t really say I have a favourite, although Murphy’s dancing was totally mesmerising therefore may tick more boxes... however, I do find the fluffy, short sixties tutus a little Thanks so much for another really interesting compilation!
Osipova is clearly an athlete in peak condition and dances Odile with assurance, but for me, Murphy's rendition was captivating to watch. Alonzo and Evteyeva were somehow less fluid which surprised me, actually.
It must have been really difficult to film dance before the 1980s because it’s really hard to find good quality footage of any ballerina before that time…
i kinda wish they were side by side to see the difference, if only because im not literate in dance and im just watching this thinking “oh pretty dancing!” 😂
When we get to the 2000s onwards it quickly becomes "Oh just let me flex my skillz on these fools" and really speaks more to the evolution and skill of ballet dancers.
Osipova’s shoes look like they are about to disintegrate off her feet. Beautiful dancer but those dirty wrinkly shoes were doing her feet no favors. Murphy is brilliant, her arms, her feet, I could watch her all day
She has strong feet and I believe she wears broken toe shoes for a reason: more flexibility, less noise on the stage floor and they work for her. It is my favourite part of her presentation - crazy but I am an old ballet dancer myself.
Ossipova loves to enhance her naturally insane feet with about-to-die shoes. Some people find it exagerate, some others drool with extream insteps. I must confess that I love crazy hyperextensions and oversplits level Sylvie Guillem or Lala Kramarenko (rhythmic gymnast). Can' t help, the thumbnail pic made me click in Panck' s time😅🤷🏻♀️
Is it just me or the 2018 version was more about spinning and hand gestures compared to the previous ones!!! I feel like the older choreography was much more technique whereas today its also theatrical its also more fluid,less rigid, am not an expert but I like the 2005 ver because of her amazing steps and looking so effortless.
Девушка с каре - Взору представился облик красивый, вид утончённый и титульный стан статуей иль эталоном, иль дивом, вазой из южных, неведомых стран. Факт упущенья певцов и поэтов - то, что чей образ ещё не воспет! Ива волос под узор эполеты аркой касается плеч, как шербет. Муза явилась в скупую реальность в угольных тканях от шеи до пят, плотно прильнувших, открывших всю тайность ради мужских, распалённых услад. Чёрная стройность славянской принцессы, тихой, кофейноволосой звезды и каревласо-точёного веса очень похожа на страстность грозы. Шарм и эстетика радуют душу! Очи-стилеты - барьер, что у глаз. Мой этикет не позволит нарушить святость её в этот лакомый час. Родинки - пара семян из грильяжа. Женский задор не угас, не остыл. Взгляд умилённо и женственно влажен, бур и отважен, но всё-таки мил. Не пышногрудая чудо-девица, чьи утончённые чресла, как шторм, вдруг поселилась на белых страницах, оттиском прямо на сердце моём
I'm not sure if the choreography 1967 was so different BECAUSE it was filmed not on a stage but as beautiful as they all are, you can't see their whole body and the whole picture in the ones that aren't on a stage, or they have their back facing and the inconsistently REALLY bothers me and I feel it throws off some comparison.🤷🏾♀️🤧
I dressed up as Odile for a Halloween party this year!! (It wasn't a ballerina flavored costume I had a low cut, floorlength solid black dress with lace and a choker and a high bun with black feathers, a black rose and a tiny single red feather in my hair and used a special Guatemalan beaded necklace as a headpiece since I didn't have a dark tiara...it bordered on looking 1920s and I had crazy makeup and black heels and black, gothic patterned fishnets under the dress and velvety black wings...I thought it was more of "concept/character" costume rather than dance costume because no tutu...and it wasn't the best but I'm happy with it! Love Rothbart's daughter!! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
@@sailorv8067 Да, мой друг! Искусство балета - это не 32 фуэте. 32 фуэте вообще не проблема, даже для обычных выпускниц балетных училищ. Но несмотря на это, Плисецкими они не становятся. Харизма, гармония, музыкальность и ДУША в каждом движении- это не каждому дано.
Well the standout for me is Elena Evteyeva, the second dancer. Her movements are graceful and fluid, AND she has a great line to her body. Visually very delightful. Very few dancers can embody music. This lady certainly does.
Alicia Alonso did five pirouettes on pointe.Three times in a row she did this. Most of the men today only do four pirouettes. For a woman to do five pirouettes on point is stunning, to do it repeatedly is excellence. I appreciate her musicality. I believe she led these ballerinas. They have not reached her standard, not yet. Their bodies are prettier but what they are able to do with them is not as impressive.
Одной мне не нравятся спущенные бретельки на последней? Вид неряшливый. Ну и атлетическое сложение, как у спортивной гимнастки. Такое ощущение, что она сейчас начнет кувыркаться с булавами. А понравилась третья балерина. Царственная осанка, легкие руки. Вообще волшебный образ.
Стала пересматривать после У. Лопаткиной. Молодцы, стараются, но ощущение детского утренника не покидало. Всё в сравнении.. Может запись такая, точно это запись.
Can someone explain to me what position Osipova's leg is in after the piruetta en dehord? -Simply terrible and out of line, it's not an attitude behind or to the side- it simply doesn't exist in classical dance
It is interesting how Odile sort of went from cold perfection to a more seductive, evil look. I guess it is dancers responding to what the audience is looking for. This character certainly gets a ton of mileage out of not really all that much time on stage
To be honest, I find the newer versions more technically perfect and yes, more seductive. In the first videos you can see the ballerinas' bodies going diagonally when they spin. The last two have perfect straight postures. They also seem more slim and have longer legs, which I think adds to the sense of seductiveness.
I can give a better explanation as to why she’s not a sister to me guess what?? You’re the same Christy
I was born in 1942 in Havana, Cuba. My family held tickets for the “Musical Pro-Art Society”, which presented ballet, opera, symphony and drama productions as well as touring soloists of classical music.
Since I was 4 it was my joy to see Alicia Alonso in all the rôles of the classical repertoire, usually 3 times a year. Giselle was my favorite, with Swan Lake a close second.
What fascinated me most was the difference between Odette- warm, shy, gentle, playful, - and Odile- cold, precise, aloof, cutting. By 1947, I found myself in London with my parents and we went to see Swan Lake; I don’t remember who was the prima ballerina in that production, but I remember going to a restaurant afterwards and expressing a strange feeling of disappointment, despite the far more lavish scenery and costumes.
As a child, my appreciation was for the storytelling and the personages of the tale. The rigorously exact steps were not able to communicate as well. In fact, over the years I’ve had difficulties embracing perfect technique with extreme extensions and total exactitude of positions. Regardless of how athletic and physically perfect they are, if a dancer doesn’t speak his/her role through the choreography, the performance is moot to me.
When both aspects are present in dance, it’s a wonderful experience!
Gillian Murphy, nailed it! The way she, dances in moves is breathtaking and magical. She’s everything that ballet should be.
At least here the newer versions give lot more character and passion, the older Odiles kind of look boring.
The orchestra is so different in the older versions I have to wonder what it was originally intended to sound like by Tchaikovsky and if we've come closer now or only drifted further away from his original vision. I would give so much to see what the original Swan Lake looked and sounded like!
Ratmansky reconstructed Swan Lake you can watch excerpts from his version.
Their performances aren’t really very different, but the way they were recorded is. The later ones, recorded live in theaters, are using much more sensitive mics that pick up the lower registers way better, plus they are picking up in the acoustics of the sound bouncing around the larger space. The earlier ones sound like they were recorded in smaller, acoustically “drier” spaces with much more limited microphones.
@@hk6970 he didn’t reconstruct he created his version
A failure. The first staging of Swan lake failed. So the way the music is alligned, sounds was changed as long as the choreography before the ballet became the hit we know today.
I wonder if the choreography has changed and evolved as dancers became more athletic and skills more bold? I wonder if the music we are hearing was added by the poster since it’s the same on every dancer.
why is no one saying anything about Evteyeva, she literally moves like a bird... so graceful, refined and free
I also thought that her moves are the softest of them all and her body is exceptionally smooth. No hesistation or preparation before moves are executed, the sequence is just flowing. That´s what i as a layperson see
Мне она понравилась.больше всех.
She feels like she's an embodiment of a black swan. I don't know how long she did that part but it just felt so natural
She's absolutely exceptional. The movie version of Swan Lake done in 1968 is one of my favorites and I was floored by her performance the first time I saw it. Her Odile is Odile pretending to be Odette (and not Odile being Odile). She's so charming and enchanting you can understand why the prince was willing to believe she was the Swan Queen.
Yes. All that you say is true. This performance is perfectly lovely. I'm thinking, however, that viewers are holding back with comments because there are places in this performance where she is just slightly off her center. The placement of her feet is just a bit off, for certain steps, and consequently her center of gravity shifts. This is where she seems to tip to one side, in a way that is barely noticeable, but also somewhat distracting. Your comment has me thinking that it is possible that the producer of this video made a deliberate choice to present a slightly off performance by this dancer, to show off the third and the fourth, in a comparison. That would be the usual process, for youtube videos of this type.
Osipova was technically superb but Murphy’s interpretation was absolutely gripping....she looked magical. It is difficult to compare ‘progression’ when the dancers are already diverse in their abilities. Certainly the earlier version footwork and balance looked less accurate
мой комментарий, только на английском языке!
I like Murphy's version better less cold and more alluring. I like also smoothness of Murphy's moves more than Osipova athletic and more technical approach.
This is because back then it was painful to stand for long periods of times now days we have more support on pointe shoes.
I agree, she was the most mesmerizing
@@amaliaemirova1169 I think probably the cuts and editing in the earlier ones don't help
I absolutely loved the way Gillian Murphy (2005) embodied Odile. Every move she made and her gaze, she made it all seem completely effortless. Such elegance, she moved with such grace, she wasn't stiff once, pretty much every move of hers was circular and flowy, so fluid, they remind me of the way birds move
Omg i was so confused i read that as cillian murphy 😭
I’m no dancer, but after forty years of training and competing in womens sport, I’m seeing shifts over time here that mirror development across the entire spectrum of womens sport - and ballerinas are pro athletes, they’ll tell you that. Better injury treatment, nutrition, addressing the demands that women starve themselves, and better sport science in general has gotten into ballet schools like it has everywhere else and given better transitions, better power, greater ability for directors to exploit. Dance does not exist in a silo, a good company will use better science to get better dancers.
As a fencer I saw the same things from 1977 to 2010, you can run tape from 1968 of any sport vs now and see this. You have better dance athletes giving better performances because they can.
Yes yes yes! This!
This is so true, technically. Artistry, musicality and interpretation, though - they're something else again. In those areas, some older stars had what some newer stars don't, despite technical advancement.
In addition, I think there are a lot of modern dancers who would give a lot for Alicia Alonso's balance. Or Anthony Dowell's.
To this day, so far as I've seen, no one can do des Grieux in Manon technically as well as Anthony Dowell did (especially the Act I solo), with the one exception of Vadim Muntagirov. Muntagirov has everything, (and it helps he's a lefty, as Dowell was).
The progression in gymnastics in particular is pretty shocking
I love your insight! I know nothing about sports so would have never imagined that.
Yes, but the actual artistry is missing. I see the same in the bellydancing world. Lots of abs but very little dancing.
Its amazing to watch the difference in the body types of dancers back in the 50s and 60s. Before Balanchine, women could be athletic and still have enough weight on them to keep their curves - previous generations of dancers were able to keep their careers going all the way into their 40s. Now, because of hyper extension and malnutrition, dancers are already injured with back problems by their late 20s.
Omg that's so sad....
I noticed that as well, the first two dancers while athletic still looked slightly curvy compared to modern-day ones. You can really see that in their legs and shoulders. I don't know anything about ballet though so I don't know why this change happened or whether it has positive/negative effects on the dancers
If you do not eat good you do not have strenght and power to do all that. The dancers eat goed but they burn a lot of calories during the work out. It is a myth about malnutrition. A lot of them smoke also.
My daughter is a dancer
absolutely! They had the more 50s kind of ideal of curves...thin, but curvy. Once Balenchine became popular, it was anorexic and athletic. I was just explaining to someone above, who is a fencer, that thought there was better support for injury and nutrition. Ha! It's an art form, not a sport, and that hyper flexibility and malnutrition we know runs rampant
@@tolde are you kidding me? In professional companies, the dancers starved. Our company only allowed the women to have a handful pf candy all day while training. Of course the body needs fuel, but the person has an excellent point; once Balenchine hit the scene, the style was starvation thin and hard training. Think Gelsie Kirkland in the 70s. The 50s ballerina looked completely different from her; 50s one probably cooked dinner for her family before performance...70s was anorexic.
All of the dancers are to be admired for their dedication to ballet and their techniques. Thanks for the evolution. ❤❤❤
Osipova is a genius in a class of her own for the past twenty years (and I suspect her greatest years are coming to a close). Alonso was forty-seven when she did this performance. More importantly, Alonso was not filmed while dancing the variation on stage at a theatre or during a performance. This was a ghastly, made for TV, dumbed-down version of Odile, it was photographed terribly, it wasn’t a proper dance floor. Filming dance back in the 1960s and 1970s was a nightmare. It was very difficult, the equipment was awful, the technical ability was dreadful. That’s why we are missing so many, many great performances. The Russians filmed everything always so we are lucky to see so many minor ballerinas we would have never seen in the west.
Thank you!! I had really wondered about this!🖤🖤🖤
I don’t think her greatest years are coming to a close, she’s only 36. Sarah Lamb and Marianela Nuñez are in their early forties and still exquisite. She’s hitting her prime now with the maturity of her technique and acting ability. I predict she’ll have her own company when she does retire from performing as often (hopefully not for a while yet). Alessandra Ferri is 59 and still performing brilliantly for the Royal Ballet.
And who prevented to film major dancers in your country? I even do not know what to think of your comment. There are really many, many wonderful ballet dancers in Russia, we are lucky that some of them were filmed. Filming was always expensive, so if a ballet dancer was filmed - that was the reason for that.
@@melissatranfield4054 I agree, perhaps the best years of Osipova are coming to end. After all, 36 for ballet is quite a number, the body possibilities have limits, unfortunately.
@@An_Gold that’s not what she wrote. Quite the opposite, actually. Your other comments above are very confrontational too. Quite unpleasant to read.
Каждая балерина - мастер и хороша по-своему. Сравнивать сценическую и студийную запись не совсем корректно. Кроме того, они танцуют разные редакции этой вариации. С удовольствием посмотрела все четыре исполнения.
Абсолютно верно!
Само видео сравнивает не балерин, а партию Одиллии.
Вообще четыре танцовщицы это мало , чтоб сравнить . И потом , а почему Плисецкой нет в этой подборке ? Самый прекрасный и известный русский "лебедь" . У нее Одиллия тоже хороша .
Видна тенденция к упрощению партии. В последней версии больше половины элементов выброшены, либо заменены на упрощенный аналог, что никак не красит партию, выглядит скупо и неинтересно.
It’s fascinating to me that with the evolution of pointe shoes, more pointe work has been incorporated into these numbers.
Alicia Alonso’s turns!!!🩰👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Interesting… I expected the dancers to be more impressive over the years and while flexibility extension fluidity and technique might have some gains over Alicia … Alicia is the only one who accomplished 5 pirouettes 👏👏👏👏👏
@@IfeelMT I was a very young girl and had the honor of dancing a bit part with National Ballet of Cuba 🇨🇺🩰 right before Dame Alonso passed. I was so little but in awe of the fact that she’d be brought on the stage by wheelchair ♿️ with the curtains down for final bows, but she mustered the strength to stand up and bow like the Prima Ballerina Assoluta that she was without the audience ever knowing. Never let them see you sweat. I’ll never forget and vowed to dance and live like that, like everyone is watching. Brava!🇧🇷🇵🇹🩰
Her posture was better and her moves more graceful and carefree than the newer ballerinas. Which is crazy because she is visibly weighing a bit more than the younger ballerinas so you would think she’d struggle more. I noticed the newer ballerinas also have a more bony and muscular look that makes their moves look less easy-flowing and more mechanical and rigid. The two earlier clips of those ballerinas were very magical on the eyes, looked beautiful.
@@honeysweetbunbun да 👏🏻 пожалуйста, I appreciate having been coached by Ирина Колпакова and other primas from mainly the Большо́й . Their artistry, epaulement, everything down to the fingertips was addressed. Yes, I’m more of the bony and athletic type (naturally) but that didn’t matter to me or especially my Ballet Mistresses and artistic directors.🇧🇷🇵🇹🇷🇺🩰
In the first dance the choreography has pauses where I can see the shape of a bird in the pose. The modern choreography is constant spins and the arms are always acting as wings, so I can’t see the long neck poses.
yes, same feeling for me, I like when there is variation in the rythm, giving more sense to the move; dance must express something, not be just a performance... whatever the talent of these dancers.
I actually preferred the very first one. I'd love to see it in the outfit in the last performance. but the more technical the moves got the more motion sick I became... but I'm really glad to see that changes are made as time moves on. there are many choices
Gillian Murphy' arm movements is perfection.
Gillian впечатлила больше всех, волшебство и воздушность.
Спасибо каналу!
Alicia just whipping out a quintuple pirouette on not-so-supportive pointe shoes (0:15) like it's the easiest thing in the world 😍
You should do this same video with the other version of the Odile variation (the sinister sounding Russian version with the oboe)!
Русская не версия ,а оригинал. Это русский балет
Не только исполнение, но и хореография отличаются оч сильно. у всех.
Oh wow! Odile is one of my favorite ballet characters! A difference I observed was the changing head pieces (; Nevertheless, though this is considered as canon, there are also some alternate versions with the different music from the Pas de six. It's hard to imagine that Odile wasn't interpreted as Black Swan before the 1940es (though, Petipa had introduced Black Swans into Act 4...), but it seems like intended by Tchaikovsky himself (;
Вы правы. Одиллия не лебедь. Она - демоница!! Я не знаю,отчего в мире пошла путаница с тем,что она черный лебедь.
@@НатальяКоролёва-е2и I think the main problem are her swan movements- with those she is pretending to be Odette. Also Odette is not a swan on stage, but rather hinting her swan enchantment with her movements. This is the other common mistake and often target of parody. Swan Lake gets constantly mistaken with "The dying swan" - actually Odette's "classic, but actually modern" swan tutu is based on Anna Pavlola's dress, and so there the tradition is from.
Plus, "Black swan" is probably more poetic than the darker imagination of a demon. Yet, there is also "Arrival of black swans" a piece by Richard Wagner, and it reminds me also greatly of Pas de Six No 2 (Andante con moto), and Odile's instrument is also like Odette's the oboe, which is fitting to the whole swan connection....Which means, that Odile is also not a black swan on stage, but black swans are also associated with demons (There's also an opera by Siegfried Wagner: "Realm of the Black swans").
Six pirouette on the point for the one and only Alicia Alonso
Семь
The sequence done by the first ballerina is no doubt my fave
I think what I noticed most was the shoes. The blocks on the two earlier dancers' shoes (Alonso and Evteyeva) are noticeably smaller than the ones on the more modern dancers'. I think it lends a lighter feel to their performance and likely makes it more difficult to remain en pointe.
Also, just my two cents, but I prefer the sets of chasses in the earlier performances than the bourrees tournant. It suits the character/music better.
I am surprised I never heard of Murphy before. And I find her quite amazing
She’s with ABT and has been for a very long time.
You need to see her in the movie Center stage from 99 she does quite a lot of dancing in it. It’s a favorite movie among ballet fans
imho her Odette is one of the best, if not the best, out there. Her Odile is more a seductress/hot girl than someone evil... the best Odile I've found so far has to go to Monica Perego. Awful costume but she really, really exudes evil with the variation. it's the original Odile variation, though, not the Mischievous Child.
@@lasylphide-s5j I will look it up thanks
The full ballet is on RUclips just look it up
I couldn’t tell in what way they were different but I liked the first one. Somehow it felt more dainty.
Gillian murphy was my favourite, to me her arms were perfect, she was silky smooth in her movements, I cant deny the sheer capacities of Osipova, but to me its just like in iceskating showing their physical prowess takes a bit from the art/the message. I personally would love to see Osipova in very strong roles like an evil queen or something of the sort, I'm going to search for that, and it's very interesting to see the little changes
Yes exactly! I got light airy flowy vibes from Murphy and evil Queen vibes from osipova, both are amazing but Murphy embodied this role better
i’ve always loved baller I but I didn’t know the names of the dancers. Having watched all four I really enjoyed watching Elena in 68. It really feels like you are watching someone who has just connected with the joy in the energy of dance and she dances like there is no one else around. Plus the lines of her body and feet are just absolutely amazing.
I feel like the ones that came after it’s almost like a competitive endurance sport. I don’t feel the connection to the music or the character as much. But like of all things it is personal choice
Gillian Murphy is one of my favorites in this role. So glad you included her.
I understand that Alonso's performance was edited and the others were one take, but she was so mesmerizing. She was giving face and it felt like I was watching a story unfold as opposed to a dance performance. All 4 dancers are stunning and amazing.
I want to see grace, elegance and story telling together with alignment to the music and beautiful lines. These came from the earlier dancers.
The most recent dancer slung her arms and legs around as if she were in a gymnastics or acrobatic performance. Sometimes less is more. In these examples less is much more
Ох! Как вы правы! Была рада прочесть ваш комментарий.
So true. Watching the later dances I can recognize that they had a lot of good technique, but I still feel more captivated by the first 2 dancers.
Споделям вашето мнение.
My favourite is Plisetskaya😍 But Osipova is good too👍🏻
Согласна с первым предложением
Evteeva had perfect technique, besides artistry and musicality. No one today can compare to Soviet ballerinas.
Sylvie Guillem.
She’s retired and was never close to Ulanova, Plisetskaya, Makarova, Kolpakova, etc.
@@anastasialenkova-molchalin5874 She's retired and was far better then all those you named.
@Flonoii Sana
I disagree. I think she was more of contortionist than ballerina, of course many don’t agree with me.
Ballet is subjective of course, unless we’re talking about technique (which would mean 1960s-1990s Vaganova graduates are the best obviously).
@@anastasialenkova-molchalin5874 We have to respectfully disagree.
Elena was like a music doll 😍😍😍 soo beautiful clean and elegant
Сравнение с куклой не очень лестно, она здесь именно по-женски очень соблазнительна🙂
Alicia is a diamond ❤
I play classical music but have never been able to really appreciate ballet. By seeing these performances back to back and reading the comments of those who really know ballet, I can get a better sense of how different airs are conveyed and I'm looking forward to seeing my next ballet with this education!
Osipova truly looks like a swan with the way she moves. Incredible
Вот уж лебедя я здесь не увидела, при том что Осипову я обожаю
Osipova fantastica! La vedrò mercoledì in Giselle, non vedo l’ora ❤
Beata te!
😍🙆🏻♀️🙆🏻♀️🙆🏻♀️🙆🏻♀️🙆🏻♀️🙆🏻♀️😍
うらやましい😂
I was already amased that dansers could perform so that even I (with NO ballet knowledge what so ever, I just enjoy seeing it) up under the ceiling on the cheapest seats, can see Odette and Odile’s different personalities! Seeing the same dance lined up like this leaves me flabbergasted 🤯
What a treat! Thank you so much! I looovvve the inky darkness of Osipova’s interpretation.
I liked the 1967 & 2005's performances. I like the way the 2 ladies did it. Everyones was lovely just btw.
So impressed with Gillian Murphy! Her athleticism and grace were extraordinary.
Атлетизм здесь не к месту( ее руки в этой партии бесподобны
@@АннаПетрунина-в2ф Natalia Osipova (2018) was the best.
Brava Alicia!!!
Всё не то. Технично ,четко, но не то. Кто видел Майю Плисецкую в роли Одилии,тот поймёт.В ее исполнении столько душевности,жизнелюбия, любви.Она жила танцем.Сердце замирает,когда смотришь на танец Майи.А тут не ёкает,совсем. Не хочу никого обидеть,это только моё субъективное мнение.
Gillian Murphy is exquisite!
Советы по балету,весело про руки ,мимику,па головокружение, шум!Это в прошлом ,а ныне шоу,от которых мухи дохнут!!!
Simplemente magistral Natalia OSIPOVA....... No hay comparación, técnica, carisma, talento interpretativo, contextura, estatura y belleza 👏👏👏👋🇨🇱
I agree!
Осипова не балерина, а гимнастка.
@@janaselle8063 К сожалению такое сейчас сплошь и рядом. Многие зрители не понимают искусство, только спорт.
Просто эта партия не ее. Для меня она лучшая Жизель современности
I'm not very into ballet, but this was an interesting watch and I can at least appreciate the beauty of it
I fell like Fonteyn and Zakharova is definitely missing in this video but although great job!
Каждая последующая Одилия прекрасней предыдущей!
Alisia Alonso was the best. Incredible!
I enjoyed all of the dancers. Yes, extension is higher and maybe more turns (did I see Alonso do a quad pirouette on pointe?) Although this section of the 'Black Swan" was not shown I do not like how they changed the 32 fouette section with putting double pirouettes in-between the fouettes. Harder technique is not always better.
6 pirouettes en pointe and then 5.
Елена Евтеева понравилась ,наверное из за пачки 60 годов ,от которой мы в детстве сходили с ума ,она мягче и пышнее ,очень романтический фасон
How to pretend to be a young woman pretending to be another young woman? Is she cold temptress, innocent pawn or a bit of both? And does she secretly actually begin to find Siegfried attractive as they dance together? Does she feel any remorse? How much has Rothbart told her; the whole plot, or only to dance to impress? I guess all these are up to the individual ADs and artists. I really enjoyed these different interpretations, all technically brilliant for their time and all with different nuances. I can’t really say I have a favourite, although Murphy’s dancing was totally mesmerising therefore may tick more boxes... however, I do find the fluffy, short sixties tutus a little Thanks so much for another really interesting compilation!
I think I love Gillian Murphys the best. Very sultry, sensual and flirtatious. Her arms movements move like waves or wings. Bravo👏
The 2005 is my favourite version. For me anyways was the most enjoyable to watch
Gillian Murphy 2005 beautiful, precise, graceful
Natalia Osipova will always be my favourite ballerina 🩰
Осипова меня просто завораживает.
Osipova is clearly an athlete in peak condition and dances Odile with assurance, but for me, Murphy's rendition was captivating to watch. Alonzo and Evteyeva were somehow less fluid which surprised me, actually.
It must have been really difficult to film dance before the 1980s because it’s really hard to find good quality footage of any ballerina before that time…
Absolutely true 🙈
There’s quite a bit of footage of Fontaine, the famous British ballet dancer.
They all dance like angels!
7:04 - Wow! A slightly alternative staging? That mohawk!
Murphy's technical perfection is incredible! But man that girl looks starved!
I really enjoyed Evteyeva's impersonation of Odile.
i kinda wish they were side by side to see the difference, if only because im not literate in dance and im just watching this thinking “oh pretty dancing!” 😂
Beautiful group of danseuses.
Elena Evteyeva bravo!
beautiful
Splendido vedere i ballerini che hanno preceduto quelli attuali
Alicia Alonso !!!!!!🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
When we get to the 2000s onwards it quickly becomes "Oh just let me flex my skillz on these fools" and really speaks more to the evolution and skill of ballet dancers.
Браво, Осипова!!! Самая лучшая!!!
The first stretch of the right hand toward the right toe - why do some go nearly to the floor and others hardly reach?
Osipova’s shoes look like they are about to disintegrate off her feet. Beautiful dancer but those dirty wrinkly shoes were doing her feet no favors. Murphy is brilliant, her arms, her feet, I could watch her all day
I agree. Her shoes looked completely dead.
She has strong feet and I believe she wears broken toe shoes for a reason: more flexibility, less noise on the stage floor and they work for her. It is my favourite part of her presentation - crazy but I am an old ballet dancer myself.
Ossipova loves to enhance her naturally insane feet with about-to-die shoes. Some people find it exagerate, some others drool with extream insteps. I must confess that I love crazy hyperextensions and oversplits level Sylvie Guillem or Lala Kramarenko (rhythmic gymnast). Can' t help, the thumbnail pic made me click in Panck' s time😅🤷🏻♀️
Is it just me or the 2018 version was more about spinning and hand gestures compared to the previous ones!!! I feel like the older choreography was much more technique whereas today its also theatrical its also more fluid,less rigid, am not an expert but I like the 2005 ver because of her amazing steps and looking so effortless.
アリシア・アロンソさんのオディールは、オディールってより「私がアロンソよ！ドヤァ」って感じがあり、それはそれで好き❤
で、見た目のオディールらしさはギリアン・マーフィーさんが1番かなぁ…
でもやっぱり見ていてゾゾゾォ〜ッと寒気立つほど素晴らしいのはオシポワさん。
オシポワさんはなんて素晴らしいダンサーなんだ。本当にすごい。ぜひ生で観たいから早く来日してほしい…🙏😍
Осипова очень техничная, но почему-то отдельная от музыки
Плисецкая эталон!!! Для меня😊
Девушка с каре
-
Взору представился облик красивый,
вид утончённый и титульный стан
статуей иль эталоном, иль дивом,
вазой из южных, неведомых стран.
Факт упущенья певцов и поэтов -
то, что чей образ ещё не воспет!
Ива волос под узор эполеты
аркой касается плеч, как шербет.
Муза явилась в скупую реальность
в угольных тканях от шеи до пят,
плотно прильнувших, открывших всю тайность
ради мужских, распалённых услад.
Чёрная стройность славянской принцессы,
тихой, кофейноволосой звезды
и каревласо-точёного веса
очень похожа на страстность грозы.
Шарм и эстетика радуют душу!
Очи-стилеты - барьер, что у глаз.
Мой этикет не позволит нарушить
святость её в этот лакомый час.
Родинки - пара семян из грильяжа.
Женский задор не угас, не остыл.
Взгляд умилённо и женственно влажен,
бур и отважен, но всё-таки мил.
Не пышногрудая чудо-девица,
чьи утончённые чресла, как шторм,
вдруг поселилась на белых страницах,
оттиском прямо на сердце моём
Gillian Murphy is the best. And the first one Alicia Alonso.
Фон Ротбарт-любовь с детства!
Вторая балерина лучше всех.
I'm not sure if the choreography 1967 was so different BECAUSE it was filmed not on a stage but as beautiful as they all are, you can't see their whole body and the whole picture in the ones that aren't on a stage, or they have their back facing and the inconsistently REALLY bothers me and I feel it throws off some comparison.🤷🏾♀️🤧
Осипова - лучшая!!!)))
I dressed up as Odile for a Halloween party this year!! (It wasn't a ballerina flavored costume I had a low cut, floorlength solid black dress with lace and a choker and a high bun with black feathers, a black rose and a tiny single red feather in my hair and used a special Guatemalan beaded necklace as a headpiece since I didn't have a dark tiara...it bordered on looking 1920s and I had crazy makeup and black heels and black, gothic patterned fishnets under the dress and velvety black wings...I thought it was more of "concept/character" costume rather than dance costume because no tutu...and it wasn't the best but I'm happy with it! Love Rothbart's daughter!! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
No one performs this variation better than Natalia Dudinskaya and Maya Plisetskaya. Why aren't they here?
Maya is everything.
I agree very much about Plisetskaya. In contemporary dancers, I vote for Kondaurova.
Плисецкая- неподражаемая! Её в ряд всех этих балерин смысла нет ставить. Её Одилия - непревзойдённая!
@@janaselle8063 это та самая Одиллия, которая даже обязательные 32 фуэте не могла стабильно делать?
@@sailorv8067 Да, мой друг! Искусство балета - это не 32 фуэте. 32 фуэте вообще не проблема, даже для обычных выпускниц балетных училищ. Но несмотря на это, Плисецкими они не становятся. Харизма, гармония, музыкальность и ДУША в каждом движении- это не каждому дано.
Осипова молодец, но от Мерфи мне захотелось плакать от счастья, что я такое вижу
Well the standout for me is Elena Evteyeva, the second dancer. Her movements are graceful and fluid, AND she has a great line to her body. Visually very delightful. Very few dancers can embody music. This lady certainly does.
Alicia Alonso did five pirouettes on pointe.Three times in a row she did this. Most of the men today only do four pirouettes. For a woman to do five pirouettes on point is stunning, to do it repeatedly is excellence. I appreciate her musicality. I believe she led these ballerinas. They have not reached her standard, not yet. Their bodies are prettier but what they are able to do with them is not as impressive.
Все прекрасны,но Осипову обожаю.
Одной мне не нравятся спущенные бретельки на последней? Вид неряшливый. Ну и атлетическое сложение, как у спортивной гимнастки. Такое ощущение, что она сейчас начнет кувыркаться с булавами. А понравилась третья балерина. Царственная осанка, легкие руки. Вообще волшебный образ.
Мне кажется или балерины сейчас стали более техничными?
Honestly I think Murphy was my fave!
The last one seemed more wicked, like how a black swan is supposed to be.
Natalia Osipova’s version is definitely my favorite.
Gillians’s Odile is my absolute favorite, however elena is my favorite ballerina of all time.
Осипова - чудо, как хороша!
I respect Alonso but there's no better Odile than Maya Plissetskaïa. She really embodied the character of the witch.
Плисецкая беше магия и щеше да е хубаво да я включат това преставяне.
...I should watch princess tutu again.
Стала пересматривать после У. Лопаткиной. Молодцы, стараются, но ощущение детского утренника не покидало. Всё в сравнении.. Может запись такая, точно это запись.
It seems that all of the ballerinas had their choreography adapted to their best qualifications, in my opinion the best was ALICIA!
I vote for the second ballerina!
Can someone explain to me what position Osipova's leg is in after the piruetta en dehord? -Simply terrible and out of line, it's not an attitude behind or to the side- it simply doesn't exist in classical dance