Is 8K Coming? The Future of Home Media Explored!
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- It's a question that physical media fans are debating: Is 8K coming? In this episode, we take a look at what we know and explore what the future may hold for movie fans and home media collectors!
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Problem I have is too many 4k releases don’t even take full advantage of 4k or higher mastering. When done correct 4k disc should be as good as it gets.
Well at least good enough to not be able to see the difference. You’d have to be sitting so close to the image to notice that your effective FOv will be smaller than the screen. Throwing more pixels will only increase compression artifacts as there is a limit for distribution.
Personally, I’ve been let down by most 4k release that I own. Granted, I just made the transition, so I do not have many, but I wouldn’t say I have been blown away by the quality compared to a Blu-ray.
Yeah jaws, lord of the rings are some of the worst 4ks I’ve seen. It’s usually the directors that want that dnr/ grain scrubbing crap which ruins films. Hell that not even mentioning the color and effects that are changed in the modern versions
There probably isn't a need for anything beyond 8K scans downscaled to 4K. The difference is negligible unless it comes along with some sort of HDR equivalent technology along with the format. Watching 4K without HDR on a 1080p display doesn't look much different than watching the same content on a native 4K display. I did that when I got my first 4K TV in 2017ish and was disappointed at the lack of difference. Then Stranger Things season 2 came to Netflix with HDR and the hype made sense. There might be some use case for native 8K in the future that sells me on it but I don't see it right now. Maybe VR movie watching...IDK.
Nick S depends on which titles you use to make the judgement, more recent titles are less likely to be upscales so should impress you more
I spoke to my Ophthalmologist about this several months ago. He said, at a base level we cannot see 8K pixel density. however there are techniques to trick us into seeing more perceived detail, but no ACTUAL detail. It is similar to sound. We cannot hear 96KHz or 192KHz, however we can perceive harmonics at upper registers.
Bottom line, audio above 44KHz and video above 4K is far more marketing than practical reality.
Good points! I'd also like to add it'd be so much more expensive for companies to do this anyway so I don't seem them really venturing into this.
pixel density is one thing but what about the increased pallette of colors and shades?
And doctors say for the last two years that we should put multiple doses of untested medicine into our bodies. ... Maybe, technically, the "harmonics" reasoning is true about 44k+ audio content, but when people say "you can't hear any difference", they're either deaf, or haven't heard it on reasonably good equipment that can reproduce it. One of the key advantages of Blu-ray over DVD is the phenomenal leap in quality. A few concert movies have have been released in 96k (notably, Sting, Dave Matthews, Chris Botti) that are audio revelations.
A similar matter can be said for video. How big is your display? 65"? ...Yes, if it's not a 185:1 movie, you may not see a lot of improved detail from 10' away. However, if you're watching on a 75", a projector at 120" or better...now, even 1080p Blu-ray can look a little sketchy. Is part of it a mastering issue? --Sure. But, just as it's more likely that a lousy BD is going to look better than the best DVD, a lousy 4k disc can sometimes still have an advantage over a really good BD.
When people speak in superlatives about "the eye can't see" or "the ear can't hear", the assumption is that every production on such a format is produced at the absolute perfected peak of each format. This is rarely, or even never, the case. ...And the whole argument just leads to poor adoption of better quality content, while companies get by with charging us for outdated, lousy content (hence, why DVD is still the best-seller, even though BD and 4k are capable of magnitudes better picture and sound).
@@damonappel I bet you can't wait for 20k super duper ultra mega HD. The placebo effect is alive and well I see
The thing about a potential 8K physical format is that it should bring a higher disc capacity (300 GB let's say) and a switch to more efficient codecs (AV1 or VVC for example). These changes would allow for higher bitrates and I believe that's something that we will be able to see, resolution is only a part of the equation.
What you said at the beginning is the nail in the coffin for anything beyond 4k. People don't care. They are still buying DVDs for the most part. I have some 4k but overall I prefer bluray~unless there is a really good sale/Black Friday etc.
I agree 100%, Griff.
Get any great Blu-ray deals recently?
Never owned any regular blu ray. My collection is only 4k. Part of the reason is my belief that this will in fact be the final format.
@@robertfaulkner1824 I’m a big 4K collector too but I collect a mix of formats still. I cover lots of physical media collection/haul and topics on my channel, feel free to stop by to enjoy some videos and so we can talk your favorite movies my friend.
A quick visit to any Walmart or Best Buy these days makes a pretty convincing argument that 8K discs are not on the horizon. At my local Walmart, you're lucky if you can find any 4K releases.
That said, I support your approach as I subscribe to the philosophy that the future is unknowable. Enjoy collecting what you love today and let the future take care of itself. 👍
My local chains didn’t even bother to stock the Northman in 4k.
You are 100% correct. We will never see 8K discs for home use. 4K is the last stand for physical media. I’ve been collecting since VHS and this is it.
Don't see 8K happening because 4K is still really a niche market only for hard-core cinema fans like us. When people still buy DVDs over other formats even now, I'd be shocked to see 8K players!
Do you mostly buy 4ks over Blu-ray’s right now?
@@megamikethemovieman I only buy 4Ks when I can get a good deal on them. Don't even own a 4K player still, but pick them up for the future when I will have one. Really only started buying my favorite films on 4K this year, but I have around 50 of them so far. Certainly looking at buying more films in 4K now as I'm hunting though.
VHS tapes outsold DVD until 2006.
@@musicismyreligion. I have mostly 4ks and Blu-ray’s. I cover lots of physical media topics and collection videos on my channel, feel free to stop by to enjoy some videos and so we can talk some of your favorite movies my friend.
Growth is parabolic and most people are late adopters. 1080p grew very slowly from 2006 to 2012. But then by 2011-2012, most people had them.
8K will eventually happen. It just may not be mainstream until 2035.
And here I am still buying DVDs due to the affordable price and the fact that DVD releases in Australia outnumber Blu-ray 2:1 for movies and 4:1 for tv series.
I think many collectors would prefer to see the hundreds/thousands of OOP titles get a physical media release rather than worry about a new format.
Or titles that have never been given a BD upgraded to the 1080 format, for that matter. There are some deceptively great movies who’ve never been made past DVD.
How many DVDs do you currently have mate?
@@megamikethemovieman I've been a bit slack and haven't properly catalogued my purchases this past 2 years, but I'd hazard a guess at around 3000
second hand DVDs at garage sales and boot markets I hope!
@@keancv why?i
Bring on 16K. I'm ready :)
A few years ago, I watched a VHS of Disney's 'Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs' projected using my older Canon LCD projector (720p to 1080i at best; not even 1080p) on my 120-inch projection screen and it looked and sounded FANTASTIC! Only many years later did I bother to buy the Disney signature Blu-ray/DVD/Digital combo, so there's no way I would bother to upgrade my DVD and Blu-ray collection to 4K (with a few exceptions) and never to 8K because I just don't see the point.
I never liked the idea of waiting. “Just wait for the price drop” “just wait til it goes on sale” yeah but what if it doesn’t? What if the first run resales for double or triple the price?
Enjoy your time NOW don’t wait for what comes next.
Also I feel like 8k won’t be on disc. This might be the final push for the all digital future
I agree with what you are saying, however, the resale aspect reminded me of something. I'm one that refuses to pay the ridiculous "resale" prices people want on eBay, etc for an out of print title. I think with some time/patience, you can find titles you want cheaper or they will get released again eventually. I just picked up an OOP Blu-ray last week from a record store that cost me $6.00 after using a few store credit points I earned shopping with them. That title right now sells for a minimum on eBay of $50.00 plus shipping used.
I feel we are fine with 4k. They look amazing as is, with the help of HDR and even better with Dolby Vision when supported.
While DVD is just too low resolution to enjoy on a big screen, a lot of TVs upscale well, and I've seen some criterion collection Blu Rays that almost look 4K UHD quality.
I've even forgone some upgrades as they are either worse, or are just not worth the extra money to have it look just marginally better. I'll be keeping my Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind in Blu for now, unless there's a killer sale on the 4k
I agree. I have many newer dvd's from labels like Kino Lorber, Severin and Criterion that when upscaled, are hard to differentiate from the blu. I use a moderate sized tv as that way my dvd's still look clear when upscaled. Growing up, my grandfather had a 27 inch Zenith everyone raved about with it's top notch (for it's day picture) quality and big screen. Picture quality is all relative to what you are used to. Blu ray is ridiculously sharp and lifelike. It wasn't that long ago that we all thought that vhs looked fine and I still have many titles that are vhs only and have never made it to optical disc such as the wonderful "Unman, Wittering and Zigo." When I watch something on vhs, I have learned to turn off that voice in my head that used to say, "think of how much better this would look on...." I love blu ray but never felt the need to go to 4k and neither have most people that I know. I am sick of the constant obsolescence of both music and video collections. How many times are we going to re-buy our collections? Beta, vhs, audio cassette, cd, dvd, lp, dvd audio, blu ray audio, blu ray...I don't need another format. Blu ray is as far as I am going to go. And just for the record, I'll be keeping my "Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind" on dvd.
@@rft2001 Yeah, I get ya. DVD on a 4K TV is an eye sore, but I recall DVD looking fine on a 1080p, so an upgrade really is about your overall set up.
you can polish a turd all you like, it will remain at turd afterwards
dvds upscaled to 4k actually look beautiful in my opinion
@@Mike-t5r9q Mike nothing wrong with that, opinion expressed politely and calmly does not hurt any one. Each to their own
I totally agree. I don't believe for a second that the same big corporations that are pushing so hard for an all-cloud future are going to invest millions (billions?) into developing an 8K disc format. For those of us who want physical media, 4K is the pinnacle.
Great video just discovered this channel
Your discussion of DVD and 4K pretty much said it all. People into tech imagine that any new development will be widely and immediately adapted, but in fact the primary reality is that these are businesses that need a business model that makes money and the expense would be prohibitive unless the public goes wild for it.
I hate the kinds of people who preach “should have just waited for…” because you could guarantee 8K would come along and they’d still say “should just wait for 16K” or whatever.
It would probably be so so expensive for a player, the discs and the tvs are also so expensive so even less people than the people buying 4k would be buying 8k so it might not even be feasable for companies to release stuff on 8k
Are you a big 4K collector currently?
@@megamikethemovieman I collect 4K yea
I've not even started with buying 4K Blu Ray yet as here in the UK they are normally around £25 which certainly add's up very quick for us movie fanatics and we can buy regular Blu Ray's for £3 to £14 new.
100%
The fact that we can buy Blu-rays now for $1 blows mind! The other day I found Home Alone 2 on Blu-ray and Bohemian Rhapsody on 4K... Both were $1! Who would donate a bluray, let alone a 4K? Needless to say, I was very happy with my finds.
@@bwmxxxxx amazing prices now days. We have a big store across the UK called Poundland which is similar to Dollar store? Anyway they have a decent blu ray range at my local store and all for £1 each! I just got the hunger games movies for £3. Scorpion king and the purge movies. Streaming has made the prices plummet.
Completely get the cost aspect of 4K Blu Ray, and honestly I have an OLED setup and it’s still not worth it for me anyway… the premium on top of a normal blu ray is unjustified.
A bit of a brighter picture in some scenes and that’s about it.
*EDIT* - Also just for an idea of cost, I bought Transformers Collection, Matrix Trilogy and a handful of others costing £130. On Blu Ray this would be £27. Save your money.
@@bwmxxxxx ref Bohemian Rhapsody on 4K... Both were $1! if both where in decent condition, well done to you
Even if 16K is coming, truly how much better will that look then 4k? I have tons of 4k discs that are a tiny fraction better than the blu-ray disc it replaced. I'm not saying that I won't buy new discs that come out in whatever the newest format is, but I'm not going to replace my 4ks/blu-rays with that new format. At a certain point it just isn't worth it.
The difference between 4K and higher is impossible to see from a normal viewing distance unless you have an absolutely giant TV or screen. I'd say 85 inches at minimum for 8K, assuming you're sitting relatively close like no more than 2 meters away. Going above 8K would only be useful for cinema-size screens such as actual cinemas or rich folks who have built an actual cinema in their house or something.
Dude, I am a projection enthusiast who watches a 120 inch screen. It's only at that kind of size to you even begin to appreciate the 4k resolution. 8k? That sounds like professional movie theater size. Resolution isn't what impresses me, it is the pursuit of true black that does.
What’s your favorite movie of all time?
yes. we have 120" projector Faux-K. it's great clarity for anything mastered in 1080 or higher.
@@AA-ws3vd Awesome recommendation, thank you. I cover lots of unique physical media topics, feel free to stop by my channel to enjoy some videos and so we can talk your favorite movies my friend.
Agreed that the home video market will probably never catch up to 8K for the very reasons you mentioned. From everything I've researched about 8K TV's the resolution ONLY matters if it's a pretty massive display, so a home TV of 40" to say 65" on average would have little to no discernible difference between 4K and 8K, but when you get to the massive displays of 80"+, which are not going into average homes and not home economical, there is where the upscaling could help. For physical media I don't foresee 8K, I think if/when physical media disappears, THEN we'll see streaming adoption (which even now has it's own limits for full 4K) or file downloading in 8K medias progress.
I do think 8K tvs will become mainstream, as there is a technological benefit, but for media consumption there is no benefit, the distance at which you can see the difference is so close to make content viewing an incomplete experience. Just saying somewhere isn’t he range of 2 feet from a 65inch display will not be a good experience.
Heath Thank You for bringing this up. I am about the same age as you and honestly I am stopping at 4K. I can't do this over and over. When does it end, 16K? I barely have time to watch my small collection of movies (a little over 100 titles) now. I want to raise my kids, and be with my family and once in a while watch a movie on some down time. If it takes another 15 years for 8K to hit the markets, I will be close to retirement age. Will my old eyes be noticing all that detail anyway? I still buy DVDs. Anyway long answer shortened up, No I will not rebuy movies just because it is 8K.
I think you hit upon a simple truth when you said "enjoy your movies now". Who can say what home theater tech will look like in twenty years? I still have dvds I bought in the late nineties that I enjoy. The only bad movie purchase is the movie you buy and get no enjoyment from.
What’s your favorite 90s dvd?
@@megamikethemovieman One of the most unusual dvds I own was a four hour plus documentary dvd called "The Making of the Frighteners". It was, I believe, originally an extra on side B of the laser disc. But in 1998 (when studios were desperate for dvd content) they put it out, by itself, as a dvd. It is long and a bit meandering, but it also includes Peter Jackson talking about his own encounter with a ghost that inspired him to produce the movies. I don't think this special feature has ever been reproduced.
The issue is that I can't see any company who would be willing to invest in developing the format and the players in order to serve such a tiny market. 4k is already niche. 8k discs would be a sliver of the market, and the upgrade from 4 to 8 would likely be negligible for most films.
Are you a big 4K collector yourself?
Yeah exactly, most people are happy with a ‘4K stream’ which has way less quality than a 4K disc and severely compressed audio
would make more money bringing back VHS at sub DVD prices
@@JoshHare85 because they think all 4k is the same, most likely
@@keancv A lot of people don’t have high-end TVs or Good quality speakers either, so they won’t know the difference
I appreciate the video. I'm actually quite content sticking with standard HD and Blu ray. My feeling has always been, I'll move forward with technology when the thing I have no longer functions. No need to get a new TV every 5 years if the 10 year old one I have still works. If/ when my current TV stops working, I'll get whatever is available at the time (4k/8k etc) also 4k players are still $200-$300. I have one Blu Ray player, and my PS4, which also plays BRD/ DVD, so I'm fine. 4K movies look great, but I'll upgrade when necessary. But I don't begrudge those who have moved forward, and I'd never tell someone to wait just because the next format "is coming". Something new is always coming. Growing up my dad had reel- to reel audio, skipped 8 tracks, went straight to cassette, never got into CD oddly enough. That's what happens. Sometimes people will skip a whole technology generation, but if they care about. content, eventually everyone catches up.
How many Blu-ray’s do you have in your collection?
It's sad that PS4 does not play 4K disc when my Xbox one x plays my 4K discs with Dolby vision HDR. I think Sony really dropped the ball because they helped push other formats in the past. But because of Xbox exclusives I was able to get into a 4K since TVs are all 4K now and personally I enjoy the format.
@@megamikethemovieman Probably around 500 Blu Ray, and 500 DVD, though that's nothing compared to Heaths collection.
@@brandonandcharlene9527 That’s a solid collection. With Blu-ray’s and 4ks combined, I’m probably at 1,000. I cover lots of physical media topics and collection/haul videos on my channel, feel free to stop by to enjoy some videos and to talk some of your favorite movies.
I‘m from Switzerland and 4K‘s are still pretty expensive here. Normally they are about 34.90 - 49.90 (more for Steelbooks and Mediabooks), except mostly Releases from Sony followed by Disney which are a little under/over 30 (Don’t Breath 2 being the lowest i know for only 18 bucks at release).
I know that license and distribution costs a lot, but a 40 bucks difference is still pretty heavy just for the newest Blockbuster on 4K (i am way more willing to pay that for a new scan/collectors edition or boutique label since they have to invest more work and money into the product then just putting the already existing master on disc).
So, if 8K were to happen anytime soon i think it would have to be even more expensive since the market would be smaller and the work more time consuming. But i could see it happen in like ~5-10 years if collecting is still going strong and 8K Material is more widely available (Maybe it even being the standard of new shows for streaming?)
The only people who need 8K is NASA so they can see if any little green men are moving around on Mars.
I'm still really happy with Blu-Ray at 1080p resolution in the home.
Same. I have over 1000 and won't be buying them again.
honestly, for.the most part.i am.quite happy with regular bluray, i honestly can wait. by the way, has anyone ever had a problema with a Blu Ray disc that doesn't play after a while? it's not disc rot by the way
Personally, there's a lot to be said for 4K and even 8K technology for MOST people... but my film library is generally relegated to the silents through to the 1970s. I've sunk a LOT of money into my Blu-ray collection... a lot more than my wife is probably happy with. I own a 75 inch 4K enabled (not OLED) television and my Blu-rays appear stunning on it. DVDs look decent, too. So I just can't justify plunging into the 4K market when I'm perfectly happy with what I have. It's highly doubtful Kino Lorber Studio Classics will ever re-release Siodmak's "Deported" or "Calcutta" (Alan Ladd) on 4K. We're lucky they decided to release stuff like that on BD in the first place. Now... all of that having been writ, I'm also occasionally tempted when Criterion releases something like "Citizen Kane" on 4K. I question myself and whether or not I need to once again update my collection. All of these are genuine first world problems and I really shouldn't complain. Maybe someday I will buy a 4K player and upgrade a few titles, I dunno. Either way... nice video, man.
Glad to hear that DVD still looks decent on a 75". They look stunning upscaled on my 50". Sometimes I think the Blu-rays only look slightly better.
Most people don't even have 5.1 but I'm sure some new audio format will come out at some point, same with Video format. Will be interesting in the next 5 yrs if a 8K Disc comes out
What’s kinds of discs do you mostly collect?
If 8k "is coming"...it'll be on the back of a 3D resurgence, wherein an 8k display (or greater) is used to display multiple angles at once for glasses-free 3D.
Actual 8k content on the autostereoscopic display will be a rare high-end 'by-product' marketing opportunity (that you happen to be able to display), while the market remains invested in 4k and Blu-ray.
3D is what made the original Avatar great? 3D +8K may work if Executed well.
8k is gonna be great on the production side for the reason you mention, punching in. I can shoot in native 8k and punch in to 4k for a closeup and it will look incredible on 4k screens. I already shoot in 6.5k at times, so it’s coming. Where I think 8k would have the most impact is movie theaters. That large format screen would really show off that resolution. Movies would need to be mastered in 8k. We aren’t far from that. 8k would get us back to film resolution with all the hdr bells and whistles but that’s also where the eye tops out. I’d honestly love 8k theaters and 4k at home.
You have a great movie channel! I think I’m going to stop by to enjoy some videos, feel free to stop by mine too my friend.
I replaced ALL of my laserdiscs with DVD. I have not replaced all my DVD titles with BD and won't as my Sony player does decent enough job upscaling DVDs to my 4K TV. I only have a handful of UHDs and it's going to stay that way as there are only a few favorites I feel I need to upgrade again. You are correct: UHD will be the last physical format. There is no need for 8k for consumption. The 96 foot screen at the Chinese theater in Hollywood is fed by a 4K projector.
My thought is eventually we'll probably have a full bitrate streaming service or many. In the high end home theaters they are running download services that deliver 100gb 4k files for a lot of movies. Sometimes they even have some films that aren't on 4k yet. This is just a small version of what actual theaters are running today, them getting 300+ gb files. Seems like the most logical step. Also with all the issues with discs lately if they had the same issue on the file itself they could just fix it on the streaming service rather then today where they have to redo the discs. I'd spend $50+ for a 4K or higher res file of many movies if it meant I owned and possessed the file. I think it would benefit us as fans but also allow the studios to cut some of the restoration overhead out.
Ha! Sweet, naive fool. Netflix has been cutting the bitrate of its top-tier 4K plan, claiming "it looks just as good with the algorithm." You can be sure other streaming platforms are looking to cut bitrates as well. They've noticed that most of their subscribers don't really care, so they want to cut every cost they can. Also, your discs are your discs and won't disappear, as some shows I was watching on streaming did. Full five seasons on a services. Went back a week later and they were all gone.
@Joe Havermann Yea as much as I love the collecting part I'm more on the quality side. I'd rather have the full theater level file then a cool case or artwork. But also I want to own the file not just have it under my account. That's why I made the distinction that it's a streaming service but you have an actual file sitting there. We're kinda in the middle ground now and I just see the two combining as the best option for everyone. Most likely they're going to stop producing discs at some point. It'd be better if us as collectors pushed for a proper file delivery service that is built correctly without compromise
Thank you for this.
I find your viewer's comment interesting about waiting to buy content today because it may be available later on 8k. That seems a bit silly to me as I don't feel the need to upgrade my collection every time a new format comes out. I might upgrade something if I find it cheap or used, but more often then not whatever version I have is good enough. I'm not a resolution snob. I enjoy high resolution content, but I'm also happy to watch an old LaserDisc. Each format has its own fun quirks.
I share the same sentiment. only certain movies like The Howling will I get 4K versions of. however I will still stick on Blu ray and DVDs.
Do you collect a lot of classic movies on 4K?
@@megamikethemovieman well 4K is about less than 1 percent of my 2K movie collection, I have been collecting since 2000. and DVDs account for like 75 percent of my collection , 25 percent are Blu rays. Just recently I have I started collecting 4Ks. The Howling, Apocalypse Now, The Thing, Collateral(Cruise), Ghost in the shell(anime), Gladiator, Black Hawk Down, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Escape From New York, The Shining, Casino, Full Metal Jacket, The Deer Hunter, Ghostbusters, Looper, Heavy Metal the movie , Cloverfield, and a bunch others. and yep most of them are classics.
I think there is a handful of stuff that was scanned in 8k, basically stuff that was shot on 65mm film like Lawrence of Arabia. I don't know if 8k will ever become a format though because the media have painted physical media as dead if not dying. Though I think you'd have to watch 8k content at an IMAX theater to really appreciate it.
I think you said it perfectly. I doubt that 8K will ever come. And as you also said there's still so much that's still only available on DVD. I do love my 4Ks, but nowadays I'm just thankful that titles are available.
where did you get the Arrow Video t shirt from?
The heck with 8K, what about 29 mm siscobin, or abcdefg, or x machinations, or whatever. I still believe in vinyl, cassette tapes, video tapes, cds and dvds. The one thing I won't go back to 8 Tracks. Lol, now watch they make a come back.
I’d really love to hear your thoughts on where you think physical media will be in 10-20 years. Do you believe it will still even be around at all? Do you think it will be solely purchased online and labels like criterion, arrow, eureka, kino Lorber, shout, etc will be the only companies making physical copies? I think it could lead to some interesting conversations
Sounds like a topic that would be on my channel, stop on by friend.
Unfortunately I think Physical media will become unprofitable for companies by the end of the decade. Doesn't stop me from building my collection thoe 🙂
@@JackRABBITslim27 Definitely a possibility. I’m a big collector myself and cover lots of unique physical media topics on my channel. Feel free to stop by to enjoy some videos and so we can talk some of your favorite movies my friend 😀
@@JackRABBITslim27 I tend to think that physical media will not be here in 10-20 years, aside from the boutique labels and MCU films. Arrow and Criterion have very faithful fan bases at this point, but I wonder if they could make it 20 more years. Majority of the reason we saw a resurgence in vinyl record sales was that it became trendy with my age group (millennials) and you started seeing records and players in stores like urban outfitters. I don’t see that happening with gen z and physical media. I really hope physical media is still around because I do not want to resort to panic buying lol
@@superninjapirate19 I didn't think about the boutique labels. I think they will play an bigger part in physical media than some might think. That's if they can get there hands on more licensing. I will say however, I don't think MCU content will last to much longer given what Disney has publicly stated about their future plans with Physical Media. Unfortunately, I also have to agree that Optical Disc won't have the same appeal as the come back of records 5 or 10 years ago. Panic buying disc is nothing compared to having a Player to actually play them on. I would highly consider buying a reserve 4K Player. There is already only a few Quality 4K players on the market. Let alone some models are being discontinued almost every year these days with no new models coming out. Look at how quick cars started coming with no CD Drives. It happened just like that. Just something to think about.
What would be the point . We barely did 1080p, and even less 4K.
8K will benefit older films especially 65mm and VistaVision and such. Todays’s digital “films” they will have to remaster as most are 2KI or 4KI. Although some were recorded at 6K or 5.6K or whatever many weren’t even that high. They just released many of these 4K discs and have many to go, they aren’t going to remaster them already.
What are some of your favorite remastered movies?
@@megamikethemovieman The Ten Commandments looks amazing imo, probably my favorite disc. I was very impressed with Predator and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? as well. Although I only watched the Prime Video stream, Top Gun looks pretty terrific, I’d love to get that disc and see it with the fuller bitrate it deserves. The compression on the stream was pretty crap and showed artifacting in the sky shots.
8K is great - for theaters. For HOME theaters its a scam. You CANNOT see 8K unless you have a screen that is at least 165" (viewing at normal viewing distance). This is not opinion. This is science.
4K is the apex at home. Besides- the REAL revolution is not the resolution bumps - it is the HDR.
I do not think 8k movies discs will come about. Good video.
As long as 8K isn't even darker than 4K
4Ks look far too dark for me. My mate has the set up and I wasn't impressed.
With how much data is crammed on a 4k disc the smallest speck of dust or smudge can cause the player to freeze. An 8k disc would have to be laserdisc size to alleviate the problem without using compression.
Do you often run into those freezing problems with your discs?
@@megamikethemovieman About 20% of the time my Sony player will freeze. It's just a matter of wiping the disc off with a microfiber rag. Any tiny spec will do it, even brand new discs. There is a lot of data crammed together on a small disc.
@@polecat13360 I’ve noticed them pause and skip on me too. I cover lots of physical media topics on my channel, feel free to stop by to enjoy some videos and so we can talk your favorite movies.
I could see 8Ks eventually being released. Probably not on discs tho. Maybe like flash drive physical media. But if there is an 8K physical, that will be the last variation.
I'd guess at best the only 8K content will just be upscales, other than the few things that get re-scanned at 8K, and even that will likely be streaming only. PC gaming is *maybe* an area that might get to native 8K content, but it'd take some serious PC horsepower to run it. 8K seems like it's mostly the way to sell more TVs since that's the easiest number to keep bumping up to entice people to buy a new display. (Reminds me of Harland Williams in There's Something About Mary...if 8 minutes Abs is good, then 6 minute abs has to be better!) The sports example is an interesting thought, but even that's unlikely to get to 8K, since even the broadcasters who have upgraded to 4K have only recently done it, and besides, most networks are still broadcasting at 1080p at the maximum (in my area the FOX and ABC networks are still broadcasting in 720p). It'll be interesting to see how the 8K thing develops.
Video will continue to evolve, no question about that. Video producers are OBSESSED with resolution. But the home video disk is definitely done. The evidence is space. Not nearly enough space on a BD100 for an 8K file.
A good equivalent is the high definition audio format DSD, found on SACDs. DSD64 was the only format that could fit on that disc, but now we have up to DSD1024, where the file sizes for each individual song can be 20 gigabytes.
I agree with you that the 4K disc is most likely the last physical format that we will have for movies. Like you said though some older movies have been scanned in above 4K. The Ten Commandments was scanned in at 6K I believe. That 4K disc looks amazing! The only way I see us getting 8K movies in the future is something like the Kaleidoscape where it’s available on there in 8K and you can download the entire uncompressed file to your player and watch it that way.
I believe Baraka was shot in 8K. Might be the only 8K disc worth having!
Everyone thought 3D Blu-rays and 3D TV's would be huge, but they failed (in North America anyway). The same went for curved flat screen TV's, but they failed, and I think it's going to be the same for 8K TV's and definitely for any 8K media.
The technology has advanced too quickly to the point that people are fed up with format wars and endless TV resolution upgrades (even though the cost of 4K TV's, for example, has decreased substantially).
Did you collect any Blu-ray Discs?
I feel like in another 10 years, when movie making technology is cheaper, and 8K cameras are more accessible, then 8K disc may be a thing, but DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K will still be the mainstream. 8K will only be for the hardcores.
Would you consider yourself a hardcore collector?
@@megamikethemovieman no, not at all. I'm a standard BluRay guy, myself.
Future proofing is not a big deal to me. About 2/3 of my physical collection is still DVD only. I think I've been 4K able for almost a year and have maybe 5 4K discs. My budget is tight enough that in most cases I'd rather spend the extra money that 4K costs over BD to buy another BD movie on sale than have the best version. I just want to have the movie. Getting the best version (even if that is 8K in some distant future) is a down-the-line-with-spare-money kind of thing.
1080p is 2K, technically. Most movies are in a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, thus they are wider than 1920. Thus 2K.
We need to hit a wall with resolution so that the media can catch up. We moved from HD to 4k too fast and it's too expensive.
We need to stick to maybe 4k for 20 years so that the studios and niche companies can improve all the releases.
I have an 8k TV right now, I'm ready if there is an upgrade. I recently started upgrading a lot of blu rays to 4k recently and they look even better. I don't see them doing it again.
Good video Heath!
I was just thinking this... and YT recommended it. They're in your mind folks.
But yeah, big studios are drastically cutting back on physical media. Boutique labels like Shout & Arrow have increasingly gotten mainstream catalog titles, and big box stores won't even stock them anymore in some cases. Physical media will increasingly go back to its origins being a niche fanboy/girl thing. Prices will go up, quantity will go down. I don't personally think Physical media will last long enough for 8K to even be realized. Even the gaming console companies have been talking that this current generation might be the last generation where they put an actual disc drive in the consoles. That is a BIG sign of long-term forecasting.
Maybe 8k on streaming sites someday but maybe unlikely for a new disc format.8k is probably reaching the limits of what the human eye can see in terms of an increase in quality.
It pretty much is, and unless you have a huge screen (80 inches plus), there is no real quality increase over 4k.
Would have to be Fibre straight to your house (FTTP) unless it was compressed, which would compromise quality to stream 8k - very expensive atm
2K Scans ARE 1080P. 1K is 720P. As far as I know there aren't many 1K scans. There is True 8K content that exists. A lot of it has to be sourced from film, They've been scanning films at 4K and beyond since the early 2000s. Most 4K remasters today are from 6K or 8K scans.
While there is still plenty of discussion and argument over digital vs film and there are plenty of partisans on both sides, it seems clear to me from all that I've read that a proper 4k disc that was scanned in 4k should look just about as good as 35mm to most eyes. Of course there will always be variables but it seems to me that, given that nearly all feature films have been shot in 35mm (or a lower-res format like 16mm; 70mm has always been rare), and that now they are typically shot in 4k, and released to cinemas in DCP 2k - most of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 4k and 8k, and there's really no need to go to a higher resolution for home video than the actual original film elements were capable of displaying. Films actually shot in 70 (as opposed to blow-ups) like Lawrence of Arabia or 2001: A Space Odyssey, might benefit just slightly from 8k but, again, most eyes won't be able to see it, and you'd need a pretty large display monitor for it to make a real difference. I just don't see it as a meaningful and necessary step; 4k strikes me as going far enough, especially if more and more stuff is actually restored or scanned properly for the format. Which isn't going to happen for most older films anyway, because there's no money in it.
So short answer, it's almost totally unnecessary as a home viewing format for films. That doesn't mean we won't get it, because if somebody can make a buck on it, why not? As you say, it might be cool for sports and I suppose games. But for movies or TV? I wouldn't place bets on it.
To quote my good friend Agent K. "I'm gonna have to buy the White Album again.". I started buying Blu Rays about a year ago. My next upgrade is a multi region player. Great video as always.
The problem is that you’re not going to see 8K unless you have a big enough screen. Even then, the TVs get very warm and can get burn ins. Let’s not forget that a lot of people are still buying DVD or upgrading their DVDs to blu rays. Not many 4k releases are even worth pay the extra money for a little upgrade from a blu ray. This is because movies with a lot of CGI are shot in 2k to save on rendering time. I read that it took 30 hours to render one frame of the movie Frozen. That’s with 4,000 computers rendering one frame at a time. In the end, 4k is only really worth it if the movie was shot on film.
Just wait when companies release 4k discs the movies will have a 8k scan.
7.29 TB per hour for raw 8k footage ....good luck with that...... I'm tapping out at 4k
Kenzan Wafers from Japan can store 1 billion blu ray disc capacity .
However, any new medium must have backing of the major studios .
Since many new 4K titles are from boutique labels , due to lack of studio effort , I doubt 8k will ever be considered.
Wizard of Oz was scanned at 8K to offset any decrease in quality when the 3 strip alignment process would ocurr. If they scanned at 4K with a final 4K output in mind, any stretching in any region (for 3 strip alignment) would blur the pixels and create noticeable artifacts, so 8K would help to counter that.
Unless you have a screen the size of a wall there's no point for 8K at home.
I think 8K films will never be available in a consumer physical medium. I doubt they will ever exist on streaming as the bandwidth cost won't justify the expense for the vast majority of home screens.
People have barely adopted Blu-Ray. UHD is a niche. 8K would be a niche within a niche. I don't see studios or hardware manufacturers signing up to serve that market. It's too small.
Also, 8K isn't going to be much of an improvement over 4K for filmed entertainment. It's diminishing returns: there's no more picture information there once you're down to the film grain. Even with 4K UHD, the best benefits over HD aren't the resolution: they're HDR and the color space. If regular 1080p had those, the only use for UHD would be for really big screens where the resolution would be evident.
The simple truth is that streaming will replace physical media for all but us dedicated cinephiles. And our numbers are just too small to warrant another physical format.
The biggest telling sign for 8K as a home video format is the lack of an agreed upon spec by tv manufacturers and studios. Once I see that, then I'll know 8K is coming. For now it's just for people who want to max out specs on PC gaming and watch a handful of very nice looking youtube videos. As someone who mostly watches movies and barely games 8K isn't enough to entice me at the moment.
Mind you, I think 8K could really benefit classic cinema, but I don't see enough evidence to support the idea of 8K as a home video format at this time.
Is it coming? I don’t think so. But we’ll see. Of course it is sad that our collection has reached its limit in one sense, but the completionist in me appreciates the finality of many of my favourite films in the last, most perfected state - UHD.
The only way I see it maybe - maybe - moving forward is some kind of immersive, holographic experience - where your room actually fills with the picture & you’re essentially IN it.
I could see labels like Criterion putting out 8K discs, but I see no need to upgrade. As you stated, I think the format will stick mostly to sports. I think in this economy, getting the consumer to spend so much on these discs is a big ask. I think for myself, Blu-Ray is most likely where I will stay, because I don't feel comfortable constantly upgrading my movies. It just isn't financially feasible.
Me too, I'm upgrading from DVD to Blu-ray or a 4k if it has the Blu-ray included in the package as some 4k's have started not to come with the Blu-ray e.g. Patriot Games UK release (US version does though. Crazy I know) or they release separate Blu-ray and 4k discs (e.g. Arrow, Second Sight etc.) I definitely won't upgrade again as I don't have a 4k player or a games console that has that capability yet.
My 4k's have ranged from the expensive to the really quite cheap (£39.99 for the Steelbook Collector's Edition of The Green Mile to £6.99 for Men in Black & Trainspotting 2)
Blu-ray looks great! The 4K Ulta HD format hasn't changed that for me.
@@s1ddo I agree with your approach. At some point, all the upgrading makes collecting not as fun, and all I truly want is to view the films I want in the best and most cost-effective format possible (even if it's DVD).
@@bwmxxxxx Absolutely! I'm hoping in the next few years, Blu-Rays of older and more obscure titles will become cheaper and more accessible to folks on a budget like myself, but if not, I'm okay with DVD. When I start worrying about constantly upgrading, collecting and watching movies just won't be fun for me anymore.
Well, let's look at it: VHS was introduced in 1976 and was the premiere format (with exception of Laserdisk) till 1996, where DVD was launched in Japan and the year after in the rest fo the world, 10 years later in 2006 came Blu Ray and the ill fated HD-DVD format, 10 years after that in 2016 came 4K UHD, so if that is anything to go on, we should see the 8K format launched in 2026. The disc technology allows for until 1 TB to be stored on a single disc, so there is room enough for 8K, even without newer and better compression. HEVC/H.265 will do the job. There are a few titles scanned in 8K: 2001 A Space Odyssey, Lawrence of Arabia, Wizard of Oz, Baraka and Tenet and by 2026 there will probably be quite a few more. 8K may very well be the final format, as it will be a 32 MP (megapixel) format and 70 mm film has a resolution of around 30 MP, so that should cover it.
8k will be an even greater niche market than 4K so will never be too popular and certainly not mainstream. Admittedly the difference will be far less between 4K and 8k than 1080p and 4K which is often hard to discern in itself. You may only ever get 8k streaming and not 8k discs as well so I wouldn’t worry about 8k for at least another 5-10 years if at all.
Awesome video of 8k
I agree 4k is the last physical format. They might stream 8k as a gimmick some day. And i think there will be 4k blu ray plays that upscale to 8k and output to 8k tv but thats not real 8k
How big is your current 4K collection?!
@@megamikethemovieman i only have maybe 5 titles. But my home theater is setup for 2k 1080p. And looks amazing! A expensive projector is more important then a cheap 4k or tv. Remember all the theaters had 2k projectors for many years and everyone still went to the theaters.
Distance.
It's all about distance.
The only reason that higher resolution displays are necessary, is to deliver a clearer image on a larger display (at least 200"), from a further distance.
This larger display over distance equation equals real estate.
In order to accommodate these factors you need space. Most homes and theatres have limited physical space, so the ability to accommodate 8k content as it is supposed to be consumed, is not really practical in the real world.
In order for it to really take hold, I can only see it having a home in the virtual space. AR or to some extent VR may hold the key to the future of 8k or 16k consumer consumption. But the technology for that needs to improve drastically first.
For now, the movie industry will not create a movie unless it stands some chance of bringing in a return. They simply do not make films solely on the basis that it is 'art'.
Therefore, given the fact that the distribution of a movie to reach an audience is firmly established already and won't be changing anytime soon. The current channels simply do not have the capability, funds, or infrastructure to accommodate 8k resolution media and do it justice.
Most theatres have very expensive high end projectors that either too old, are celluloid based projection, or have just recently been installed with 4k and they are still trying to get a return on investment.
Homes may already have 8k TVs (Why? I don't know, because as I said, to really take advantage of it, you need space) but the movie content isn't there to take advantage of it. Over The Air broadcasters are still in the prehistoric era. Cable companies are dying. Internet service providers are vulnerable to government legislation regarding bandwith, so streaming content may have to be "optimised" in order to deliver a pseudo 8k quality over the internet and physical media is a loss leader.
So, given all of these outdated and dying distribution models, why would the movie business even consider making 8k versions of their products?
It just wouldn't make sense.
No, for home entertainment 4k is already overkill and HD is probably the sweet spot. For theatrical releases 4k is probably good enough.
So to answer the question 'Is 8k coming?'. Only if the technology, infrastructure and distribution/revenue chain are radically overhauled to accommodate internet streamed augmented reality based content consumption.
And if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if a disruptor comes along and introduces a whole new business model that completely bypasses the old movie industry vanguards.
They'd probably build a hybrid blockchain based, crowdfunding/Netflix/Patreon/RUclips/Unity 3D, independent artist, user generated content focused subscription platform that becomes the new go to place for the next generation of audiences.
And I for one, would welcome that.
Just my two cents.
My children don’t watch television or movies (which blows my mind since we have a home theater). They stream RUclips and the older ones watch TikTok - for hours. This isn’t a physical media issue. Cinema is dying. The entire industry will need to adjust. Kids these days don’t have the patience for a two hour plot development. 8K will be great for sports, live events and site-seeing experiences but will it be physical or streaming? Current infrastructure can barely stream 4K. More questions than answers I’m afraid. Would love to see a 4K 3D format though.
We’ve reached the point where the human eye wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
I'm holding out for 64K to make my eyeballs bleed and my head explode like in 'Scanners'. Hahahaha! Major sarcasm, folks. :)
4k is the max possible resolution that can be used for 35mm film x-fers. 8k for the 70mm. So for most movies made in the last 100 years or so, 4k is the epiphany, no use going further.
If 8K is around 33 million pixels and the rough max of 35mm film is 40 million pixels then 8K probably will be a thing maybe on an SD card type setup like the Nintendo switch discs?
But unless you have a TV screen bigger than 85 inches most people wouldn’t notice the difference? Or care
Definitely won’t on a projector above 85 inches because that tech doesn’t have the contrast/deep blacks and probably never will….
4K is a great all-rounder that won’t get overtaken by streaming quality for many years (if at all) ?
Since 8K has so much more resolution than real 35mm film it would be crazy to enlarge all old movies just to reach another high point in ammount of pixels. The resolution is not tge same as increased detail level when the original formats limitations are surpassed.
I do think 8K, maybe even 22 or 16K, can have a future use in Immersive video like VR though. Since you then ”wrap” tte video around you, it would increase the quality and the image comes much closer to reality.
New technologies for future movies might change all we think we know now. Holografic videos as an example.
Sound is where tte development is coming in near future I think.
Maybe smell and temperatures and more will be added to tge experience too. Future holds many mysteries. Lets see which ones will be for home use.
Cheers!
I remember all this with Laserdisc and I remember adds from Pioneer (which you can see on RUclips) talking about HDTV coming and why miss out? And that was for something that would be happening. HDTV did come but like you today. Why miss out? If you can have a 4k collection to enjoy? Have it and enjoy it for years to come. I still have some Laserdisc, DVD and blu Ray so I have not made the jump to 4k as I've not needed to but...!!! I know it here and I can enjoy.
If 8k "happens" for movie and I would love to see a 12" 8k Laserdisc for joy of seeing everyone back where we all started. If 8k is streaming then what will you have to enjoy? A good collection of stream receipts?
4k is awesome and has enough of a library if your fortunate enough to have it. So if you can? Go for it! And be an old git like me in 30 yrs about 16k streaming 😉
There are no "1k scans". 2k is 2048*1080, and 1080p is 1920*1080. Both have about 2k of horizontal resolution, and about 1k of vertical resolution. You are confused by the fact that 1080p refers to the vertical resolution, and 2k (and 4k) refer to the horizontal one.
8K is useless because you would have to literally sit inches away from your TV no matter the size
The human eye can only appreciate so much...and so many films and shows were finished at 2K for basically 20 years, and are only now starting to creep into a realm where they are being finished at 4K. Not filmed, but finished. As in 4K DIgital Intermediates, 4K FX and editing/compositing work and a final 4K master.
Heck, there are many shows and movies NOW that aren't able to take full advantage of 4K. There would be a fraction of the amount of material that would be able to take full advantage of 8K.
8K will not happen. We would be better served to just make 4K top-to-bottom the standard across the board.
There's a part of me that wants to get 4k but knowing there just upscaling a lot of movies makes it a lot harder to transfer because why even bother if it's not true 4k tho I think DVDs definitely should be pushed out the door but company's refuse to market blu-rays at least to try and drive sales
Do you think DVDs will last forever?
@@megamikethemovieman do you mean shelf life or on market?
Btw- 90% of movies are finished in a 2K post production pipeline.
I'm all for new and better technology that helps us appreciate the movies & shows we love. But in 2023 it's an uphill climb just to get most physical media buyers to purchase Blu-Rays instead of DVDs, let alone 4Ks. So the idea that 8K discs are coming soon as a widely adopted format is ridiculous.
With 4K movies barely cracking 10% of all physical media purchases, I'd be shocked if 8K discs became a popular format within the next 10-15 years.
For now, I think our "format concern" should be encouraging studios to release stuff on Blu-Ray and 4K.
The jump from VHS to DVD was amazing and very clearly an improvement. Jump from DVD to Blu-ray is still a noticeable improvement (though good upscaling on a player or TV can really give DVDs a boost). The move from Blu-ray to 4K UHD doesn't deliver that big an image improvement if all you're looking at is resolution. Better? Yes? Huge difference? No. The real advantage of 4K UHD is with HDR. I think that's what really makes 4K UHD discs stand out from Blu-ray (especially with Dolby Vision). An increase in resolution to 8K isn't going to do much to improve watching films or TV shows at normal viewing distances. And Dolby Vision already has a lot of untapped capability to enhance picture quality further as panels improve.
Add to the diminishing returns with the tech, you rightly point out that there's not much to watch in 8K and there likely never will be. Getting a really good 4K scan from a 35mm camera negative is possible. Getting much more after that is much harder. And if you're working from interpositves or prints, you can still get a great scan if you're careful, but you've already lost detail. As time passes, camera negatives in good enough condition to scan will become rarer as they are damaged or lost. And all the CGI heavy films are "fake" 4K anyway. It is too expensive and time consumer to render all the CGI in 4K, so it'll be done in 2K and upscaled. So, there's not that much material that would really benefit from an increase in resolution to 8K. Not enough to justify the cost of doing al the work to rescan, colour grade, etc.
I like 4K and don’t think 8K will happen in my lifetime at least! Of course I’m an old man!
Hollywood has started to shoot on 8K. At some point when streaming codecs get better and more bandwidth is available it will become standard in the future. Physical media wise 4K could be the last we see. There are barely manufacturers of players left in the market.
I think 8K will be experimented with, but it's going to probably have to move away from discs due to storage, something akin to hard drives or high capacity flash drives, or we see a huge leap in disc storage size tech. While I love 4K as a format, we are hitting the diminishing returns level when it comes to conventional home screen sizes of 55-85 inch screens. The leap to 8K won't be as significant on these size screens, and really the greatest benefit is going to be for enthusiasts with already massive TVs and projectors. Ultimately, I think we'll see some 8K content, sports, maybe the Olympics, a couple huge movies, but so far each jump in resolution has faced slower adoption. Just think about how long it took for 4K streaming to become the norm in the past couple years.
8K won't be noticable on 99.9% of the tv sizes and viewing distances. 8K files will be too big for bluray and streaming will be heavily compressed. Most 4K films have a 2K DI, because of the cost, so no way studios will release films in native 8K.
No I don't think 8K will become a thing that is widely used. Maybe 8K upscaled in theaters and youtube (compressed), but thats where it ends.
At 1:45 I think you're a little muddled up. '2K' is 1980x1080 as '2K' is a rounding off of the first number, same as '4K' is 3840x2160. A '1K' scan would be a horizontal resolution of approximately 1000 pixels which has never been a widely used standard for the industry.
So for the most part we've mostly been getting HD 1080p transfers this whole time but have actually started to see more downsampling happen for blu ray releases, as the demand for native 4K content increases, the distributors are clearly thinking that a 4K transfer is the most sensible option, even if it's not being fully utilised right away.
I don't think so with home media quote dying I don't see a market for 8k especially for people who have to re buy everything