Personally I think these rules should be consistent among the tournaments that are involved within the Esl Pro Tour (which GSL is involved with). It also seems rather weird that the competitors got asked what they preferred, obviously most people want their competition to be as weak as possible. But I do wonder what you guys and gals have to say about the gsl rule situation, just reply to this comment and upvote the ones you agree with and be sure to insult the people you don't agree with.
There definitely should be some consistently across ESL Pro Tour tournaments. Honestly the GSL staff should have considered the possibility of race changes ages ago and clearly discussed it in the rules. There should not have been any input from the others players. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.
Consistency aside, asking the players what they want is dumb. If Reynor wins as Zerg, I'd love to see him push to get to switch races. A champ gets more clout Edit: WHEN Reynor wins!
Very strange decision by the GSL to ask the other competitors how they "feel" about Reynor switching to Protoss in between games. I don't like it. I think the rules should be consistent in all the EPT tournaments.
Reynor is a competitor, and sounds like he wasn't asked. Almost sounds like they asked the Korean participants what they wanted the foreigner to do to give themselves a better advantage. Very bad look by GSL
This is not some new rule GSL came up with. You always had to pick your race before the tournament starts. Maru, Parting, Crank mentioned this throughout recent years on their streams.
@@abouttime2569 it's what Reynor said. He said they asked the other competitors, and they would prefer he only plays one race. Perhaps I read to much into what he said, but it sounded bad to me.
@@JohnEFly yeah because the other competitors are the ones who have to play him lol, not a very difficult explanation. astrea (and special and scarlett tried to qualify) was presumably asked too, he's not korean.
Or from others in the "foreigner house"... it's actually really interesting to us (me) fans! I'd love to see similar content with Scarlett, Astrea, etc.
Tbh I think they should encourage players playing multiple races over just a single one, it could make the game far more interesting for viewers and casters, and would reward players for being able to play more than one race at the pro level.
Huge agree on this, especially since Starcraft games have such a tiny amount of factions when compared to some other RTS games. Admittedly the factions are relatively fleshed out and versatile, but still. Also as a viewer of fgc tournaments, to me it seems to be the norm to have the possibility to change characters between matches, and players having to know multiple different matchups.
Harstem really proves his good character when he can be happy about someone being so good when he is a competitor. Truly a great example of good character and good sportsmanship. The opposite of narcissism.
We are all stronger lifting each other up or working together than we are on our own. Comparison is the thief of joy. Life isn’t just a d*CK measuring contest, this is also friendship and respect at play. I agree with everything you said though, but it’s a win/win in life to be like Harstem!
This is a really great segment, nice being able to keep up with the pros and other starcraft personalities. Hope this continues to become a thing, great job captain!
GSL should allow this just because it is more entertaining and that is their main goal to attract viewers. Someone playing multiple races is definitely unusual and would drive interest. I don't watch SC1 but Flash playing random so I watched him doing that.
Thanks for making an interview for us. Community is now curious to know more about Reynor & GSL. On a side note, I find it hard to believe Her0 is not only back but back in a powerhouse style. What a year for Starcraft.
Apparently GSL has always had a single-pick race rule (which oddly includes random), so if they reached out to competitors, it would be to ask them if they are okay with changing this standing rule at the last minute. This is the only way the story makes sense to me. GSL have been around since 2010. I don't think they'd act as unprofessionally as this makes them look. That being said, I really don't like that rule. Off-racing is hard enough and rare as hen's teeth anyway, but always exciting to watch. I think it makes for a worse tournament and competitive scene overall.
It was not communicated well. GSL never allowed player to switch race mid tournament, period. If anything they probably asked the players if an EXCEPTION can be made for reynor but the answer was not unanimously yes.
As far as I am aware, race switching has never been permitted in any Korean tournament since like, 2001. OSL/MSL in broodwar didn't permit it, and while I can't find a copy of the rulebook, I don't think GSL has ever permitted it either, from before EPT or WCS was even a thing. So asking the players if they're ok with an exception being made for Reynor seems like they're at least giving Reynor a chance on this rather than giving the book "No" answer that they had every right to.
I think so, but didn't Flash played random one ASL season? He was going to, at least, Artosis was hyping it like it was the second coming of Jesus lol But I suppose random isn't quite switching, also Reynor would have to play Terran as well... 🤢
It's not that it isn't permitted. It's that there are no rules for it. If it's banned, then GSL could just point to the rule. But it isn't, which makes this unfair that they come up with a new rule based on players feedback (who only want what's advantageous to them). If there's a rule banning this, there would be no issue about this. So you're wrong that it's not permitted.
Best thing happened to SC1 was Flash's return as a Random player. Ofc i'm not commiting heresy to compare current him with Flash but i really love Reynor and he's really talented and young lad, so an old man can dream right?
For me GSL is preparation based long tournament. It would be weird to prepare for zerg opponent for one whole week just to find out that you are playing vs protoss in the pre game lobby. It would just change the whole dynamic of the GSL.
I mean, of course if they ask the other competitors what they want, they'll hinder Reynor if possible. Some of his time against X matchup has been with another race and he should be able to play it, but even then the fact that they asked the players instead of just deciding is pretty, well, interesting.
Its interesting you jump into conclusion that other players prefer to play Reynor PvZ than his ZvZ, which is actually pretty great by itself. If Reynor was to offrace something, I actually think he should do PvP instead of ZvP because his ZvP has been average in the last couple months. I believe this is not about Reynor specifically but a general trend that players dont like to prepare against offracing, and thats that.
@@hentaidude666 Random is the way to go, it just takes too much effor to learn all 9 matchups as a player, it is near impossible but we shall see how much the later generations improve at the game, it may not be that far-fatched.
@@hentaidude666 Somehow this whole thing got warped into other players cant play ZvP against Reynor is just amazing. And the fact that Reynor try to offrace to "run away" from his main race matchup ZvZ is also somehow being treated as a great thing is beyond me as well. How about he "need to work on facing unpreferred matchups"
@@tigera6 "How about [GSL Pros] work on facing unpreferred matchups" fixed it for you and made the sentence apply to all parties equally in this esports scene
Is Reynor laddering on NoRegret's account? Sc2 revealed claims he's 1st with Z and 9th with P on the korean ladder (matching what Reynor said about himself)
I can see why race-switching can be a bit odd for a very preparation-oriented tournament like GSL as opposed to a "weekender" type tournament like the Dreamhack masters. However, I feel like there ought to be room for a compromise if the rules are indeed as nebulous as Reynor seems to describe. Perhaps there could have been some allowances made for Reynor to play Protoss if he were to agree to only play Protoss against Zerg so his opponents would know which race to prepare for and what maps to veto?
Massive respect to Reynor for going over there and hopefully he wins and yes it is very weird they won’t let him play other races. But then Again the GSL has always had a lot of rules.
I think asking the players does make sense - in the interest of fairness. You could really see playing a non-ladder race (not random, but “whatever suits me on the day”) as a serious competitive advantage. Imagine you prep for Reynor’s zerg, but he plays Protoss. He knows what to prep for, you don’t. I think players might rightly be upset if they weren’t consulted.
That makes literally no sense, going under that logic we should also ban cheese because players can't prepare for every strategy of cheese. If you prepped for someone's protoss but they played zerg, then you didn't prepare right. If they are good enough to play multiple races, you should be good enough to play AGAINST multiple races. Nothing stopping say Scarlet from picking up Terran and doing a surprise upset in a tournament. That would be a really exciting match to watch I would think, than another roach bane timing. The whole reason Starcraft is an exciting game we like to play is because it's asymmetrical, if you aren't developed enough as a player to adapt to strategy, composition and play style, then you aren't developed enough as a player.
@@hentaidude666 So Raynpr would only have to prepare against 1 race cheese while his oppenent needs to prepare against at least 2 races of cheese. No that isn't fair at all. Unless Raynor played Random.
@@Khasidon I mean, they're welcome to play an off race too. He did the work to be able to compete at this level with either race. If it's the rules then it's fine but if it's just a general "we asked and no one wants to deal with that" kind of sucks. Do we know for sure if playing another race is actually forbidden in the rules? If it is then nothing to talk about here.
Honestly, I love Reynor mood. He's so casual about everything and we saw him grow up, like clem, around SC2 it feels like they are still 14 and playing around. Can't wait to see him crush the competition while laughing off. It would be pretty hilarious to see him beat Creator with a big smile on his face while the other is destroying his keyboard ahah ! I need a Maru, Hero and Reynor top 3. Maru and Hero were so casual too during last GSL season final... Good times ahead !
I mean Serral has said that he isn't playing in a lot of tournaments due to personal problems so I think it's a bit ''douchy'' to both Reynor and Serral to hope that Rynor wins so Serral will play, even if Reynor wins I don't think Serral cares to much about what other players achieve and more about his own self improvment
Not sure if Serral can commit to that. But we did have GSL vs the World before, so Serral did come to Korea and would be closest to him joining GSL. Serral did wipe the Koreans that time. And I think Serral with preparation is too strong. Can see in Katowice this year where he prepared for the usual Korean shenanigans, and only lost 1 game to all Koreans he met
Peak content. I’ve always wished more foreigners would go to korea to show their skills and reynor is so full of ambition. Honestly hope he takes it the whole way against the region’s best.
@@tigera6 But it would be so cool to see someone play multiple races in one tournement also it sucks that the reason why he can't isn't even a general rule but that other players could decide that
@@blueqion9488 Tournament org are the one who decide it, but they can, and should, refer to the other players view on it as well. It might be "cool" for you to see as viewers, but we are talking about players likelihood of thousands of dollar on the line.
@@tigera6 Okay but so what? That is not eben a "real" advantage and everyone else could do the same. And no they should not ask the competition for their oppinion. It' would be fine if they would just say no from the beginning though. Beeing able to play a second race is a skill factor like everything else in the gamewhy should that not be ok?
@@tigera6 the viewers watching are why theres even a prize pool. Playing games doesn't make money, making it interesting and entertaining to watch makes money. And off race matchbox are entertaining.
I wonder if the decision by the players was made due to game quality. A lot of commenters here saying that it is looking like a malicious attack. But afaik in Korea, tournaments have never really allowed random. I think that's also fair since professional players who risk their careers shouldn't have to try to prepare against every single strategy against every single race just because their opponent plays random races. And I'm not sure how that would translate to changing the decoration in Televised matches since the race is clearly announced atm prior to playing (Maybe they put ? but that looks weird). Over time though, I don't see why Reynor couldn't petition to allow him to swap races as long as it's announced and workarounds can be found.
@@andrewferguson6901 I don't remember about random, but it might have also been that if you play random, then you always play random (considered as a 4th race).
@@andrewferguson6901 Yeah, so It's nothing new. Maybe this was a case of "its forbidden by default, but if players are ok with it, we can allow it as an exception"? That would make sense.
This is Reynor's 2nd time living in Korea to compete in the GSL (c.2018) I don't know why ppl think this is novel or ground breaking.. in any way. (Is memory-loss a part of long-covid¿) Also Maru plays the player, not the match up, or the map pool. He might _choose_ to defend first / kill you later, but he can at any moment 2-base all-in and end games
Compare 2018 Reynor to 2022 Reynor. In 2018 he was already on his way to be the best in Europe and he almost made R04 in GSL. It only took him an additional year to battle it out with Dark for world champion at Blizzcon. Another year to actually win it and another year to battle it out AGAIN with Serral in the Katowice finals. Dude was pretty fucking good in 2018, now he's THE BEAST and almost always to be considered in the TOP 3 of world at any given moment of the year. So I agree, it's not new seeing Reynor in GSL, but it's pretty fucking hype to see 2022 version Reynor there.
Agreed that asking other competitors is gsl dodging the accountability, but for a tournament involving map ban/pick, fixing race is crucial. Picking up preferred match-up on certain maps only shows weakness rather than versatility. Technically Reynor still practice just three match-ups by switching zvz into pvz, I doubt if he would play p against maru in any major games. It's not like he spends double the time to practice and masters both p and z, that way if he got banned for switching races he would get more support.
Harstem, this is your chance to do some real journalism: dig into this whole race-switching thing. Is it in the rules or not? Let's see if we can actually get some protoss out of Reynor. That would be a truly sick storyline.
It's not in the rules, which is why they asked the players. That's the thing though... if there is no rule against it, what the players think is irrelevant. At no point in time should they ever be considered. This is supposed to be an issue for the tournament and GMs to deal with, asking the players always sets a bad precedent because they're not making decisions out of being fair, they're making decisions to win.
@@WalknTalknStevnHawkn Well, its EXACTLY because its not in the rule, and it mess up the other players preparation process and map veto, thats why the other players must be informed and get their view collected on this. Ultimately its the tournament decision to allow it or not, and it will probably be added into the rule now, but they can and should ask players on this.
@@tigera6 If there is no rule against it there is no justification to forbid it. If there is a rule that says the tournement can decide or the players should be asked then it's ok what happened. Player preparations should not be considered in a decision like that. Also it is on the players to prepare for something like that too and it's not even a secret that he plays protoss too now. Everyone had a fair chance to prepare for that and if nothing is in the rules that says it's forbidden everyone should assume it's allowed. In general everything which is not forbidden is allowed that goes for sports and games just like for everything else.
@@tigera6 It doesn't matter how much other players prepared. No rules would have been broken, there is objectively nothing wrong with it. As I already said, and as is the precedent in every other professional sport. The RULES are made to be followed and adhered to. If you can simply ignore the rules and "ask the players" then what is the point of these rules that have been in place and already agreed upon? What's the point of having a game master or a referee if the players can simply decide what is right and wrong? There is supposed to be a higher authority in these types of scenarios, an adult that is capable of making decisions based off pre-defined rules and without bias. This doesn't happen when you just "ask the players". Because as you have seen now, the players will do what they can do to hamper the opposition and create a better playing field for themselves.
Having multiple races in the competitors' back pockets to pull out at a tournament could make the complexity of the competition so much deeper. I hope this trend of banning multiple races doesn't continue because if Reynor can actually start consistently beating people with his Protoss, it might force others to start training up secondary races. It feels like this might be the next level of evolution of the StarCraft II competitive scene
@@keizan5132 Absolutely. In case I wasn't clear in the original comment, the trend I am hoping doesn't continue is the banning of multiple races. I'll edit the comment now for clarity.
I can understand making him stay 1 race per round as gsl is a preparation tournament but mid series changing can be a pain if they prepare for a week for his z only to have him choose p
And forcing his opponent to prepare for a potential extra matchup and another set of veto? Just because you "think" Reynor off-racing is a handicap, his opponents who has to prepare for it doesnt think the same. And if it take that much skill to be good at multiple race, how about using those skill to improve your main race?
@@tigera6 Yes, forcing his opponents to prepare more, just as he is doing. Off racing is exciting and makes for good press, which is good for the game as a whole. Pros will always choose the boring & safe option if asked
@@Joel-co3xl Reynor is not doing this because its "more exciting and good for the game", hes doing it because he believe it gives him a better chance to win. So stop right there with the "its good for the game" part. And thats why other players might or might not feel its good for their chance of winning. This is totally NOT the case with Flash, where he was honestly thinking he won too much and decided to make it more challenging and exciting for himself.
@@Joel-co3xl It will be good for the game if tournament are pushing for it and making players to consider it, like giving extra prize pool for offracing. But that would be in the future, at this point, its not neccessary "good for the game" if one guy trying to off-race ONE SPECIFIC matchup to get a better winrate.
I can imagine allowing race switching mid-match could result in a drop of quality of play in a preparation-based tournament like GSL. Imagine grinding out cool builds and strategies for a particular race all week only for it to be totally thrown out the window when they off race. I think Harstem's middle-ground suggestion of allowing players to give prior notice for different stages of the tournament is a fair compromise though. If Reynor gave prior notice he wanted to play protoss against dark in the semi-finals / finals that should be fair imo.
A traditional strength of GSL is the potential for players to prepare for a single player for weeks and snipe them. Reynor sticking to Zerg would make such upsets easier, it doesn’t weaken him but strengthens others against him
I wonder if GSL would allow people to play random? maybe reynor could consider gambling that if he really wants to be able to play some toss. At least there’s a 2/3 chance of him getting a competent race for himself
I thought other players have done it in the past. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because he’s as good as he is. Ultimately anyone could play any race as it’s generally considered a disadvantage, but with reynor they feel it is an advantage for him.
Random is not allowed, because it gives unfair advantage until you scout (cannon rush, 12 pools, etc.). However, playing all 3 races is not unfair, because the opponent knows which race before the game begins.
... If you play random, you have 5o prepare for 9 match ups instead of 3. That minor bonus of them not knowing who you are is minimal at best, and random is a far greater handicap.
@@Wizo062991 If you are protoss against random, you wont know where to put your first pylon and you cant scout for the information in time. This forces you to compromise and wall on the low-ground in that scenario. However in PvT this can be a big issue/disadvantage, when the terran attacks your nat/third area. If you are zerg, your overlord scouting pattern changes depending on matchup. You cannot make up for this completely even by worker scouting, which would be an eco disadvantage on top of it. Ideally we should strive for removing RNG instead of adding more. You should also not be given a potential advantage, just because you decide to play random. (regardless of how much more effort it is to play random at competitive level) In my opinion, randoms race should be revealed on the loading screen specifically to reduce RNG, but Blizzard is kind of dead in the water, so this is what we have.
Random also means you need to be pro level in all three races, which is more impressive. Imagine being so confident with your worst race and being confident to take on Maru or whoever.
They would probably allow someone playing random, flash did it in ASL Big difference in selecting race per game and just being handed a race by the computer
If you're good enough to win with different races, I think you should be allowed to switch back and forth as much as you want. It makes strategizing more interesting and it's more fun to watch
Reynor throwing Harstem in with Serral and Clem, what a gent. Hope he is able to go all the way! Seems like the race switching was banned based on the "arrangements" section with the intention of making the playing field fair. But just because Reynor is the only one who is good enough to switch races doesn't mean switching is unfair
That's a bummer about suddenly asking about player's feelings coming from a perspective from past Korean treatment of the foreigners. Hope it's all within healthy sporting manner. Best of luck, Raynor!
Yeah no YEah lets ask the enemies what they want you to do... makes perfect sense! Just like c&c 3 make it all worthy of going even ff-ing random! at one point if someone gets that good with all 3 races!
I don't understand why everyone here is so salty about this. Be grateful that GSL are still putting up the money for these tournaments because who knows how long it'll last. You're entering their country, their rules, so respect the rules and enjoy the games while you still can
Putting up money, and then earning money from it. GSL is already dying and foreign participants can revive it with viewership. Why kill it with restrictions
W8 what? How can they(opponents) prefer him playing his main race? Surely they would much rather him playing T o P? Or are u guys talking about team members?
Well I saw today in that WardiTV Summer champ you can't swap races between matches also because you if you veto maps based on the guy being terran, then suddenly he just decides to troll you and go zerg all games its pretty fucking stupid if you ask me ....
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Personally I think these rules should be consistent among the tournaments that are involved within the Esl Pro Tour (which GSL is involved with). It also seems rather weird that the competitors got asked what they preferred, obviously most people want their competition to be as weak as possible.
But I do wonder what you guys and gals have to say about the gsl rule situation, just reply to this comment and upvote the ones you agree with and be sure to insult the people you don't agree with.
Agreed, really screwed up to have inconsistent rules and to ask the competitors to make the call! Unreal!
There definitely should be some consistently across ESL Pro Tour tournaments. Honestly the GSL staff should have considered the possibility of race changes ages ago and clearly discussed it in the rules. There should not have been any input from the others players. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.
Consistency aside, asking the players what they want is dumb. If Reynor wins as Zerg, I'd love to see him push to get to switch races. A champ gets more clout
Edit: WHEN Reynor wins!
I’ve always thought it is a single selection for the whole tournament, Z/T/P/random, no switching. That makes sense to me.
Allowing players to switch creates a more dynamic tournament, adds to strategy and competitiveness. Poor decision by GSL.
Very strange decision by the GSL to ask the other competitors how they "feel" about Reynor switching to Protoss in between games. I don't like it. I think the rules should be consistent in all the EPT tournaments.
Reynor is a competitor, and sounds like he wasn't asked. Almost sounds like they asked the Korean participants what they wanted the foreigner to do to give themselves a better advantage. Very bad look by GSL
This is not some new rule GSL came up with. You always had to pick your race before the tournament starts. Maru, Parting, Crank mentioned this throughout recent years on their streams.
@@JohnEFly You got any proof with that accusation?
@@abouttime2569 it's what Reynor said. He said they asked the other competitors, and they would prefer he only plays one race. Perhaps I read to much into what he said, but it sounded bad to me.
@@JohnEFly yeah because the other competitors are the ones who have to play him lol, not a very difficult explanation. astrea (and special and scarlett tried to qualify) was presumably asked too, he's not korean.
I hope this Harstem / Reynor "journaling"... becomes a regular series during the latter's GSL run in Korea.
Or from others in the "foreigner house"... it's actually really interesting to us (me) fans! I'd love to see similar content with Scarlett, Astrea, etc.
I totally agree!
And just like that you jinx him and he loses in the group round.
Gezellig
Tbh I think they should encourage players playing multiple races over just a single one, it could make the game far more interesting for viewers and casters, and would reward players for being able to play more than one race at the pro level.
Huge agree on this, especially since Starcraft games have such a tiny amount of factions when compared to some other RTS games. Admittedly the factions are relatively fleshed out and versatile, but still.
Also as a viewer of fgc tournaments, to me it seems to be the norm to have the possibility to change characters between matches, and players having to know multiple different matchups.
"nevermind that isn't Lowko" - LOL
That smile from reynor at 1:35
Harstem really proves his good character when he can be happy about someone being so good when he is a competitor. Truly a great example of good character and good sportsmanship. The opposite of narcissism.
We are all stronger lifting each other up or working together than we are on our own. Comparison is the thief of joy.
Life isn’t just a d*CK measuring contest, this is also friendship and respect at play. I agree with everything you said though, but it’s a win/win in life to be like Harstem!
This is a really great segment, nice being able to keep up with the pros and other starcraft personalities. Hope this continues to become a thing, great job captain!
GSL should allow this just because it is more entertaining and that is their main goal to attract viewers. Someone playing multiple races is definitely unusual and would drive interest.
I don't watch SC1 but Flash playing random so I watched him doing that.
flash playing random was the higlight of that season.
Congrats to 100k Harstem! Well deserved you content machine
Thanks for making an interview for us. Community is now curious to know more about Reynor & GSL. On a side note, I find it hard to believe Her0 is not only back but back in a powerhouse style. What a year for Starcraft.
Apparently GSL has always had a single-pick race rule (which oddly includes random), so if they reached out to competitors, it would be to ask them if they are okay with changing this standing rule at the last minute. This is the only way the story makes sense to me. GSL have been around since 2010. I don't think they'd act as unprofessionally as this makes them look.
That being said, I really don't like that rule. Off-racing is hard enough and rare as hen's teeth anyway, but always exciting to watch. I think it makes for a worse tournament and competitive scene overall.
Sick video Harstem, thanks alot... That was very intertaining 🙂👍
Reynor is such a dude. Absolute legend
Definitely LOVE Content like that. It's so cool to see how our favorite players live and think. Do more of this please!
Hope to see Raynor live in Korea in the playoffs. It is really cool to have some foreigners in GSL now and then.
Thank you for this awesome interview! GL Reynor!
Glad to hear from Reynor, I hope he does well out there! I'm also interested in that Olimoleague tournament with the foreigner house
Thank you, Harstem, I really enjoyed this little slice of life.
It was not communicated well. GSL never allowed player to switch race mid tournament, period. If anything they probably asked the players if an EXCEPTION can be made for reynor but the answer was not unanimously yes.
really nice interview! can't wait for upcoming GSL
Great interview Harstem! Thanks for doing this ❤️
Cool interview and very good work! Thx!
One of the best sc2 of a pro I have seen! Thank you!
I really enjoyed this interview. quite raw thank you
Good interview. Lot of fun to watch.
"we asked the other players, and they'd like for you to not have options" amazing arguments from GSL
As far as I am aware, race switching has never been permitted in any Korean tournament since like, 2001. OSL/MSL in broodwar didn't permit it, and while I can't find a copy of the rulebook, I don't think GSL has ever permitted it either, from before EPT or WCS was even a thing. So asking the players if they're ok with an exception being made for Reynor seems like they're at least giving Reynor a chance on this rather than giving the book "No" answer that they had every right to.
I think so, but didn't Flash played random one ASL season? He was going to, at least, Artosis was hyping it like it was the second coming of Jesus lol
But I suppose random isn't quite switching, also Reynor would have to play Terran as well... 🤢
@@advancewarstournamentseries Playing random, and playing an exact race selected by you for the matchup is pretty different though.
It's not that it isn't permitted. It's that there are no rules for it. If it's banned, then GSL could just point to the rule. But it isn't, which makes this unfair that they come up with a new rule based on players feedback (who only want what's advantageous to them). If there's a rule banning this, there would be no issue about this. So you're wrong that it's not permitted.
Best thing happened to SC1 was Flash's return as a Random player. Ofc i'm not commiting heresy to compare current him with Flash but i really love Reynor and he's really talented and young lad, so an old man can dream right?
Sad to hear that he can't play Protoss, was looking forward to that quite a bit
He can still play it in DH EU.
Great interview, I could listen to Reynor talk about gibberish for days lol
For me GSL is preparation based long tournament.
It would be weird to prepare for zerg opponent for one whole week just to find out that you are playing vs protoss in the pre game lobby. It would just change the whole dynamic of the GSL.
Someone with a brain.
They should prepare for both Reynor's Z and P then NOOBS! The captain ordered us to insult anyone who I disagree with. So here we go.
@@garysalazar5279That s a good argument too but it just feels weird to me.
I mean, of course if they ask the other competitors what they want, they'll hinder Reynor if possible. Some of his time against X matchup has been with another race and he should be able to play it, but even then the fact that they asked the players instead of just deciding is pretty, well, interesting.
Its interesting you jump into conclusion that other players prefer to play Reynor PvZ than his ZvZ, which is actually pretty great by itself. If Reynor was to offrace something, I actually think he should do PvP instead of ZvP because his ZvP has been average in the last couple months. I believe this is not about Reynor specifically but a general trend that players dont like to prepare against offracing, and thats that.
@@tigera6 then it's unfortunate they picked a 3 race rts, sounds like they need to work on facing unpreferred matchups
@@hentaidude666 Random is the way to go, it just takes too much effor to learn all 9 matchups as a player, it is near impossible but we shall see how much the later generations improve at the game, it may not be that far-fatched.
@@hentaidude666 Somehow this whole thing got warped into other players cant play ZvP against Reynor is just amazing. And the fact that Reynor try to offrace to "run away" from his main race matchup ZvZ is also somehow being treated as a great thing is beyond me as well. How about he "need to work on facing unpreferred matchups"
@@tigera6 "How about [GSL Pros] work on facing unpreferred matchups" fixed it for you and made the sentence apply to all parties equally in this esports scene
I love how grounded Raynor still is after all his success. Very pleasant personality.
Is Reynor laddering on NoRegret's account? Sc2 revealed claims he's 1st with Z and 9th with P on the korean ladder (matching what Reynor said about himself)
Sounds like you answered your own question
I can see why race-switching can be a bit odd for a very preparation-oriented tournament like GSL as opposed to a "weekender" type tournament like the Dreamhack masters. However, I feel like there ought to be room for a compromise if the rules are indeed as nebulous as Reynor seems to describe. Perhaps there could have been some allowances made for Reynor to play Protoss if he were to agree to only play Protoss against Zerg so his opponents would know which race to prepare for and what maps to veto?
Massive respect to Reynor for going over there and hopefully he wins and yes it is very weird they won’t let him play other races. But then Again the GSL has always had a lot of rules.
There is no rule that say its forbidden they just twisted it to fuck with the european guy. racist bastards
I think asking the players does make sense - in the interest of fairness. You could really see playing a non-ladder race (not random, but “whatever suits me on the day”) as a serious competitive advantage. Imagine you prep for Reynor’s zerg, but he plays Protoss. He knows what to prep for, you don’t. I think players might rightly be upset if they weren’t consulted.
That makes literally no sense, going under that logic we should also ban cheese because players can't prepare for every strategy of cheese. If you prepped for someone's protoss but they played zerg, then you didn't prepare right. If they are good enough to play multiple races, you should be good enough to play AGAINST multiple races. Nothing stopping say Scarlet from picking up Terran and doing a surprise upset in a tournament. That would be a really exciting match to watch I would think, than another roach bane timing.
The whole reason Starcraft is an exciting game we like to play is because it's asymmetrical, if you aren't developed enough as a player to adapt to strategy, composition and play style, then you aren't developed enough as a player.
@@hentaidude666 So Raynpr would only have to prepare against 1 race cheese while his oppenent needs to prepare against at least 2 races of cheese.
No that isn't fair at all. Unless Raynor played Random.
@@Khasidon I mean, they're welcome to play an off race too. He did the work to be able to compete at this level with either race. If it's the rules then it's fine but if it's just a general "we asked and no one wants to deal with that" kind of sucks. Do we know for sure if playing another race is actually forbidden in the rules? If it is then nothing to talk about here.
@@joshuabenson32The game would go down on a lower skill level.
Honestly, I love Reynor mood. He's so casual about everything and we saw him grow up, like clem, around SC2 it feels like they are still 14 and playing around.
Can't wait to see him crush the competition while laughing off. It would be pretty hilarious to see him beat Creator with a big smile on his face while the other is destroying his keyboard ahah !
I need a Maru, Hero and Reynor top 3. Maru and Hero were so casual too during last GSL season final... Good times ahead !
I’m surprised there is no follow up video to how Reynor performed in the first round of GSL
Reynor playing Protoss is really fun to watch tho, he has such a unique style
If Reynor wins a GSL I hope that forces Serral to commit to a full GSL season.
I mean Serral has said that he isn't playing in a lot of tournaments due to personal problems so I think it's a bit ''douchy'' to both Reynor and Serral to hope that Rynor wins so Serral will play, even if Reynor wins I don't think Serral cares to much about what other players achieve and more about his own self improvment
@@StreetPepe Yikes - I didn't know. Sorry if I sounded like a douche.
Not sure if Serral can commit to that. But we did have GSL vs the World before, so Serral did come to Korea and would be closest to him joining GSL. Serral did wipe the Koreans that time. And I think Serral with preparation is too strong. Can see in Katowice this year where he prepared for the usual Korean shenanigans, and only lost 1 game to all Koreans he met
@@N0noy1989 True true
Peak content. I’ve always wished more foreigners would go to korea to show their skills and reynor is so full of ambition. Honestly hope he takes it the whole way against the region’s best.
Very doable! Such a humble guy, like all Italians
Maybe they should just ask the other players what race he should play then they could say Terran if it's all about what they prefer ^^
Or maybe he could work on his main race to improve his winrate?
@@tigera6 But it would be so cool to see someone play multiple races in one tournement also it sucks that the reason why he can't isn't even a general rule but that other players could decide that
@@blueqion9488 Tournament org are the one who decide it, but they can, and should, refer to the other players view on it as well. It might be "cool" for you to see as viewers, but we are talking about players likelihood of thousands of dollar on the line.
@@tigera6 Okay but so what? That is not eben a "real" advantage and everyone else could do the same. And no they should not ask the competition for their oppinion. It' would be fine if they would just say no from the beginning though. Beeing able to play a second race is a skill factor like everything else in the gamewhy should that not be ok?
@@tigera6 the viewers watching are why theres even a prize pool. Playing games doesn't make money, making it interesting and entertaining to watch makes money. And off race matchbox are entertaining.
I wonder if the decision by the players was made due to game quality.
A lot of commenters here saying that it is looking like a malicious attack.
But afaik in Korea, tournaments have never really allowed random.
I think that's also fair since professional players who risk their careers shouldn't have to try to prepare against every single strategy against every single race just because their opponent plays random races.
And I'm not sure how that would translate to changing the decoration in Televised matches since the race is clearly announced atm prior to playing (Maybe they put ? but that looks weird).
Over time though, I don't see why Reynor couldn't petition to allow him to swap races as long as it's announced and workarounds can be found.
Wasnt starleague and broodwar the same? Where you have to pick your race before you start the tournament?
Pretty sure flash had to lock race to random for his season in ASL
@@andrewferguson6901 I don't remember about random, but it might have also been that if you play random, then you always play random (considered as a 4th race).
@@nanotech2080 yea that's what flash had to do
@@andrewferguson6901 Yeah, so It's nothing new. Maybe this was a case of "its forbidden by default, but if players are ok with it, we can allow it as an exception"? That would make sense.
This is Reynor's 2nd time living in Korea to compete in the GSL (c.2018) I don't know why ppl think this is novel or ground breaking.. in any way. (Is memory-loss a part of long-covid¿)
Also Maru plays the player, not the match up, or the map pool. He might _choose_ to defend first / kill you later, but he can at any moment 2-base all-in and end games
Compare 2018 Reynor to 2022 Reynor. In 2018 he was already on his way to be the best in Europe and he almost made R04 in GSL. It only took him an additional year to battle it out with Dark for world champion at Blizzcon. Another year to actually win it and another year to battle it out AGAIN with Serral in the Katowice finals. Dude was pretty fucking good in 2018, now he's THE BEAST and almost always to be considered in the TOP 3 of world at any given moment of the year.
So I agree, it's not new seeing Reynor in GSL, but it's pretty fucking hype to see 2022 version Reynor there.
It shouldn’t be against the rules, being able to play another race simply means you’re a better StarCraft player
Agreed that asking other competitors is gsl dodging the accountability, but for a tournament involving map ban/pick, fixing race is crucial. Picking up preferred match-up on certain maps only shows weakness rather than versatility. Technically Reynor still practice just three match-ups by switching zvz into pvz, I doubt if he would play p against maru in any major games. It's not like he spends double the time to practice and masters both p and z, that way if he got banned for switching races he would get more support.
You're a content MACHINE!
Harstem, this is your chance to do some real journalism: dig into this whole race-switching thing. Is it in the rules or not? Let's see if we can actually get some protoss out of Reynor. That would be a truly sick storyline.
It's not in the rules, which is why they asked the players. That's the thing though... if there is no rule against it, what the players think is irrelevant. At no point in time should they ever be considered. This is supposed to be an issue for the tournament and GMs to deal with, asking the players always sets a bad precedent because they're not making decisions out of being fair, they're making decisions to win.
@@WalknTalknStevnHawkn Well, its EXACTLY because its not in the rule, and it mess up the other players preparation process and map veto, thats why the other players must be informed and get their view collected on this. Ultimately its the tournament decision to allow it or not, and it will probably be added into the rule now, but they can and should ask players on this.
@@tigera6 If there is no rule against it there is no justification to forbid it. If there is a rule that says the tournement can decide or the players should be asked then it's ok what happened. Player preparations should not be considered in a decision like that. Also it is on the players to prepare for something like that too and it's not even a secret that he plays protoss too now. Everyone had a fair chance to prepare for that and if nothing is in the rules that says it's forbidden everyone should assume it's allowed.
In general everything which is not forbidden is allowed that goes for sports and games just like for everything else.
@@tigera6 It doesn't matter how much other players prepared. No rules would have been broken, there is objectively nothing wrong with it.
As I already said, and as is the precedent in every other professional sport. The RULES are made to be followed and adhered to. If you can simply ignore the rules and "ask the players" then what is the point of these rules that have been in place and already agreed upon? What's the point of having a game master or a referee if the players can simply decide what is right and wrong? There is supposed to be a higher authority in these types of scenarios, an adult that is capable of making decisions based off pre-defined rules and without bias. This doesn't happen when you just "ask the players".
Because as you have seen now, the players will do what they can do to hamper the opposition and create a better playing field for themselves.
'real journalism' lmfao
Ultimate goal, Reynor mains “random”
CONGRATS ON 100KKKKKKK
Having multiple races in the competitors' back pockets to pull out at a tournament could make the complexity of the competition so much deeper. I hope this trend of banning multiple races doesn't continue because if Reynor can actually start consistently beating people with his Protoss, it might force others to start training up secondary races. It feels like this might be the next level of evolution of the StarCraft II competitive scene
Just do it like a fighting game character swap order.
This actually sounds like something anyone should hope to continue.
@@keizan5132 Absolutely. In case I wasn't clear in the original comment, the trend I am hoping doesn't continue is the banning of multiple races. I'll edit the comment now for clarity.
I can understand making him stay 1 race per round as gsl is a preparation tournament but mid series changing can be a pain if they prepare for a week for his z only to have him choose p
They should prepare for both Reynor's Z and P then NOOBS! The captain ordered us to insult anyone who I disagree with. So here we go.
Subtitles at 4:47 are sussy baka
I would love a link to the house on fire tournament. Many thx 🙂
Obviously they should let him switch, it takes tremendous skill to be that good at multiple races
And forcing his opponent to prepare for a potential extra matchup and another set of veto? Just because you "think" Reynor off-racing is a handicap, his opponents who has to prepare for it doesnt think the same.
And if it take that much skill to be good at multiple race, how about using those skill to improve your main race?
@@tigera6 Yes, forcing his opponents to prepare more, just as he is doing. Off racing is exciting and makes for good press, which is good for the game as a whole.
Pros will always choose the boring & safe option if asked
@@Joel-co3xl Reynor is not doing this because its "more exciting and good for the game", hes doing it because he believe it gives him a better chance to win. So stop right there with the "its good for the game" part. And thats why other players might or might not feel its good for their chance of winning.
This is totally NOT the case with Flash, where he was honestly thinking he won too much and decided to make it more challenging and exciting for himself.
@@tigera6 Obviously he's not doing it because it's good for the game, but *it is good for the game*. I'm not saying blindly do what Reynor thinks
@@Joel-co3xl It will be good for the game if tournament are pushing for it and making players to consider it, like giving extra prize pool for offracing. But that would be in the future, at this point, its not neccessary "good for the game" if one guy trying to off-race ONE SPECIFIC matchup to get a better winrate.
I can imagine allowing race switching mid-match could result in a drop of quality of play in a preparation-based tournament like GSL. Imagine grinding out cool builds and strategies for a particular race all week only for it to be totally thrown out the window when they off race. I think Harstem's middle-ground suggestion of allowing players to give prior notice for different stages of the tournament is a fair compromise though. If Reynor gave prior notice he wanted to play protoss against dark in the semi-finals / finals that should be fair imo.
A traditional strength of GSL is the potential for players to prepare for a single player for weeks and snipe them.
Reynor sticking to Zerg would make such upsets easier, it doesn’t weaken him but strengthens others against him
I wonder if GSL would allow people to play random? maybe reynor could consider gambling that if he really wants to be able to play some toss. At least there’s a 2/3 chance of him getting a competent race for himself
They do let people play random. Balloon did it back in the day
I thought other players have done it in the past. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because he’s as good as he is. Ultimately anyone could play any race as it’s generally considered a disadvantage, but with reynor they feel it is an advantage for him.
the guy on the right could make a lot of money with those DSL
lol when I saw the word Life with a capitol letter, I thought he was going to be asking about the player.
So where is the tournament link? ;) awesome interview.
I would like to see off racing to be legal in tournaments
He made 100.00 subscribers! where is the celebration video? great interviews though
Harstem in Korea 2023 feat Byun & Byun 💖
such a gentleman, I may root for reynor this GSL.
And I already wanted to see Reynor do well, now I want to see him friggin take the whole thing down (with one proverbial hand tied behind his back)!
Random is not allowed, because it gives unfair advantage until you scout (cannon rush, 12 pools, etc.). However, playing all 3 races is not unfair, because the opponent knows which race before the game begins.
Flash play random in ASL, so I think its also fine in GSL. But what Reynor is doing is off-racing only for ONE specific matchup.
...
If you play random, you have 5o prepare for 9 match ups instead of 3. That minor bonus of them not knowing who you are is minimal at best, and random is a far greater handicap.
How many random players you see playing in EPT? The only random main was PiG and he recently switch back to Zerg cuz it's way too hard.
@@Wizo062991 If you are protoss against random, you wont know where to put your first pylon and you cant scout for the information in time. This forces you to compromise and wall on the low-ground in that scenario. However in PvT this can be a big issue/disadvantage, when the terran attacks your nat/third area. If you are zerg, your overlord scouting pattern changes depending on matchup. You cannot make up for this completely even by worker scouting, which would be an eco disadvantage on top of it.
Ideally we should strive for removing RNG instead of adding more. You should also not be given a potential advantage, just because you decide to play random. (regardless of how much more effort it is to play random at competitive level)
In my opinion, randoms race should be revealed on the loading screen specifically to reduce RNG, but Blizzard is kind of dead in the water, so this is what we have.
Random also means you need to be pro level in all three races, which is more impressive.
Imagine being so confident with your worst race and being confident to take on Maru or whoever.
What if someone is a known Random player? Would they require that player to pick a race?
They would probably allow someone playing random, flash did it in ASL
Big difference in selecting race per game and just being handed a race by the computer
If you're good enough to win with different races, I think you should be allowed to switch back and forth as much as you want. It makes strategizing more interesting and it's more fun to watch
I guarantee that this is also done for programming reasons. GSL wants to program an even race distribution for every broadcast.
Im happy hes in gsl
Reynor throwing Harstem in with Serral and Clem, what a gent. Hope he is able to go all the way! Seems like the race switching was banned based on the "arrangements" section with the intention of making the playing field fair. But just because Reynor is the only one who is good enough to switch races doesn't mean switching is unfair
That's a bummer about suddenly asking about player's feelings coming from a perspective from past Korean treatment of the foreigners. Hope it's all within healthy sporting manner. Best of luck, Raynor!
Is that Nice? Behind the Reynor?
Maru is gonna troll him again by not attacking until 15 mins mark lol.
Is that Nice ? 0:35
Yeah no YEah lets ask the enemies what they want you to do... makes perfect sense!
Just like c&c 3 make it all worthy of going even ff-ing random! at one point if someone gets that good with all 3 races!
Harstem did I see you blush at 2:00
its too bad Reynor wont be able to switch to toss however... what if he played random ?
13:37 Hallo~!
I think Harstem trows a curved ball at us. Where is Rogue, specified in title, mentioned in this interview?
Oh crap he mentioned dark, I am an idiot. Thanks for point it out
Harstem's pupils are suspiciously huge.
Didn't scarlett switch races before, how was that handled?
She played protoss against DRG if I remember well.
Clickbait title. Serral, Rogue, Life, 3 of the top 5 Zergs to ever play.
That was sneaky, but I caught you!!
Life :)
I think any player should be able to play any race they think they can win with
I don't understand why everyone here is so salty about this. Be grateful that GSL are still putting up the money for these tournaments because who knows how long it'll last. You're entering their country, their rules, so respect the rules and enjoy the games while you still can
Because it’s part of the circuit of ESL, so it’s under the umbrella of those tournaments; having a different rule set is rough
Putting up money, and then earning money from it. GSL is already dying and foreign participants can revive it with viewership. Why kill it with restrictions
Niiice!!
W8 what? How can they(opponents) prefer him playing his main race? Surely they would much rather him playing T o P? Or are u guys talking about team members?
I hope some day in the near future, there will be a matchu between Serral and Reynor, but Reynor plays Protoss and beats Serral 😂😂
Hopefully Raynor can level up his terran and just go into all tournaments selecting random.
Harstem, you are such an amazing person. Love to watch the upper part of your body.
Get em.👌
Scars from a crushing Maru Victory:)
How could terran do this to me in the late game? :)
5:32
Well I saw today in that WardiTV Summer champ you can't swap races between matches also because you if you veto maps based on the guy being terran, then suddenly he just decides to troll you and go zerg all games its pretty fucking stupid if you ask me ....