I've got this video today and another quick one tmrw, the big GoLang + HTMX video will be out this week, its much bigger/more ambitious, really want to get that one right!
Unfortunately Go + HTMX tooling and the whole low JS approach with AlpineJS just isn’t there compared to JS frameworks. Played with HTMX and yeah it’s not it
From what I've done so far TEMPL helps a ton here, but yea the tooling/DX is still just objectively worse, although there is a lot of good to cover here
@@janduna4100 it matters for development speed and reducing errors. Like there is no way to have type safety in AlpineJS. In any large enterprise app this would be a nightmare. This whole low JS approach is just good for sprinkling bits of reactivity here and there. But inevitably, stakeholders want something more and now you are in a bind.
I've been an advocate for self-hosting for many years. That doesn't have to mean a laptop sitting on a shelf on a home internet connect. I can be a cheap VPS that's automatically backed up every day for less than $10/mo. It's more than enough power to run many websites, several databases, etc. My reasons relate to the risk of censorship. But now we have to worry if the pricing will change on plans from 3rd party providers. I also don't like the propietary nature of many products, such as Google, Amazon, Azure, etc and all the different flavors of edge computing, etc. The risk of high bills is another one to consider. I will probably write an in depth article soon on the subject and get it out there so people can understand why I'm such an advocate for self hosting.
I honestly agree a lot here, for me its a huge balance between power, dev speed, while also gaining control. Tough balance that I don't really have the answer to
Worth noting that Supabase supposedly has branching support now, and Astro's new AstroDB is literally coming out this week and will have a free hobby plan. So we should have reasonable options.
This one is rough, I think they had a grave mistake by completely cutting off their entry/hobby pool, THAT LITERALLY CREATED THEIR BUSINESS. They basically don't care about anything except competing with top enterprise platforms. Really discouraging.
Yea it sucks, to me the biggest thing is that for now it will be fine, but the future enterprise customers are the idiots making random stuff on the free tier of today
I think they could just make at least more limited free tier with bank card attached. That way there will be less people using resources and creating multiple accounts...
Honestly, a SaaS not having a free tier is unjustifiable. I understand that compute resource have a cost, but a free tier is not about those resources, it's about getting a feel for the service. I don't mind when a company restricts the compute resource available for a free tier in order to improve the bottom line, but how am I supposed to try out the features and experiences said service provide without a free tier?
You got a shoutout on primeagen's video with your tweet. On the topic of this video, I don't see how planet scale will be able to scale out in the future if it doesn't have a free tier plan that developers can play around with to be able to vouch for it, especially for something as critical as a database. Every cloud provider already has a managed database service that you can already use that users are already prone to be bought into (Big 3 offerings), or have an alternative that has a free tier that I can play around with on a side project. I'd imagine that the costs that they're seeing have to be unsustainable at the moment if there making a drastic decision off of this, and I wouldn't be surprised if in the future they decide to charge more for their offerings if their current plan is to go more towards a buisness to buisness model vs business to client. As for future videos from another creator, I think personally it would be wise to leave the database layer to be abstracted enough so the user decides what they want to use excluding videos where you are showing offerings of a particular service.
This is my plan, I think generally I'll just have an orm and kinda just let the user decide, although I do want to come up with some alts for people...
If they have issues with how much the free tier costs them > they should have limited it in a way to be useful for overall try / test and to force moving to paid tier once trying is done.. Current price of 40$ for 1/8 vCPU + 1GB ram + 10GB storage sounds for cheapest option seems unreasonable.
Without the free tier and with their super unpredictable pricing, I don't see a lot of reason to choose them over something like neon or cockroachdb imo
If you only need it for to-do apps, why don't you self-host on a single instance? Ah yes, let's make a to-do app with 10 3rd-party services, edgy lambdas
how do people not setup their own local database for fkn around? even if u don't want to install dbms's on ur local machine, docker is great on anything other than arm.
I feel like they could have kept a hobby tier of two sorts. A cheaper, super skimpy, $5-$10/mo plan to really filter out wastage while being just in reach to play with. Or keep the free tier, but have it require a credit card with a dummy test charge to filter most bot/spam and then hold them to a 30/60 day trial. Still fairly restrictive, but still preserving some of the top-of-funnel traffic they are killing right now. That's my 2 cents anyway.
Can you elaborate on when you mentioned AWS RDS is more expensive? Are you talking about the free tier of PlanetScale when comparing? I reckon AWS would be cheaper compared to an even more managed solution like PlanetScale?
This is exactly what we thought going in, but its not at all lmao. Planetscale was cheaper because they were eating HUGE amount of cost for the free tier. One free tier instance probably cost them a ton of money. Go play with the pricing calculator and you will be very surprised lol, these AWS "wrappers" are actually usually cheaper on the small end since they loose money
@@bmdavis419 Yeah free 5GB of storage and conveniece are no joke 🥶. Wish they had a hobbyist tier for 10+/- USD - I'd pay without thinking lol. Have you come across DB providers that come in the 5-10 USD range though?
@@bmdavis419yes I've notifs on lol. Great content ! have been following since around 5k subs ig 🤔. What are some alternatives you would recommend to planetscale db ? I'm sorry if you have already mentioned it because I'm still watching the video
The free teir is how planetscale got our companies initial subscription money. I used the free teir and I loved it despite the restrictions. I recommended it heavily at work and now we're using it in multiple production apps. But that won't happen anymore :( Yet again, capital has walked into the room just to execute the vibe and lay off employees. If there was some sort of open source competitor that let's you use standard databases to back the rest of the functionality it'd be an absolute killer of planetscale.
well, the fate of all cloud based BS. just use a local postgres or something. If it's free tier then I'm sure your 5 dollar vps instance can probably handle it just fine. I don't see the point of planetscale's hype
It is a database though. PlanetScale uses Vitess, which they made. Vitess is open-source and you can selfhost it. It's just too overkill for local dev.
I need to migrate off planetscale but I'm really undecided on which one to choose. I would prefer AWS since I already have everything else there (SST) but it looks its going to be hella expensive. Railway same thing, expensive, no backups, no branching. Turso feels like sooner or later will do the same thing as Planetscale, and Supabase is much more than a db so not sure if I should use it just for the DB, also, no branching on free tier in supabase
@@bmdavis419 I was using neon free tier and lost all my data. As well as constant downtime. They dont even show their status page anymore because it's that bad
I could understand scaling back the free offering, but as many have said, the Enterprise of tomorrow is starting in some person's basement today. And if they start on something else they are not likely to switch when they get big unless whatever they are using completely craps the bed. This is definitely not a good strategy long-term
I don't know what their funnel is so who really knows, but realistically if all their sales come from B2B when enterprise DBs get too big then I'm sure they will be fine. Idk what the numbers are, its totally possible they were burning 7 figures+ on just dead free instances that they can now cut. Time will tell
![DDG & G Herbo - Nosey [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9Ra0Zc2NlQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I've got this video today and another quick one tmrw, the big GoLang + HTMX video will be out this week, its much bigger/more ambitious, really want to get that one right!
Unfortunately Go + HTMX tooling and the whole low JS approach with AlpineJS just isn’t there compared to JS frameworks. Played with HTMX and yeah it’s not it
@@mr.random8447 That's because tooling is not needed. People like you are the problem. Tooling this, tooling that.
From what I've done so far TEMPL helps a ton here, but yea the tooling/DX is still just objectively worse, although there is a lot of good to cover here
@@janduna4100 it matters for development speed and reducing errors. Like there is no way to have type safety in AlpineJS. In any large enterprise app this would be a nightmare. This whole low JS approach is just good for sprinkling bits of reactivity here and there. But inevitably, stakeholders want something more and now you are in a bind.
I don’t understand front end developers sometimes, tooling for what? templ with HTMX can get you really far and has great DX
Closing adage: "There is no cloud. There are only other people's computers, and somebody has to pay for that shit."
exactly
They’re like drug dealers; The first time is free😂
I've been an advocate for self-hosting for many years. That doesn't have to mean a laptop sitting on a shelf on a home internet connect. I can be a cheap VPS that's automatically backed up every day for less than $10/mo. It's more than enough power to run many websites, several databases, etc.
My reasons relate to the risk of censorship. But now we have to worry if the pricing will change on plans from 3rd party providers.
I also don't like the propietary nature of many products, such as Google, Amazon, Azure, etc and all the different flavors of edge computing, etc. The risk of high bills is another one to consider.
I will probably write an in depth article soon on the subject and get it out there so people can understand why I'm such an advocate for self hosting.
I honestly agree a lot here, for me its a huge balance between power, dev speed, while also gaining control. Tough balance that I don't really have the answer to
Worth noting that Supabase supposedly has branching support now, and Astro's new AstroDB is literally coming out this week and will have a free hobby plan. So we should have reasonable options.
Really looking forward to AstroDB, I got to try out Supabase branching recently and it was awesome
@@bmdavis419 Thanks that's awesome to hear, excited to try them out soon. Need a replacement 😂
I had a hobby tier and enjoyed using PS. I would have be fine with $5-10 a month for hobby, but $40 was way too much.
This one is rough, I think they had a grave mistake by completely cutting off their entry/hobby pool, THAT LITERALLY CREATED THEIR BUSINESS. They basically don't care about anything except competing with top enterprise platforms. Really discouraging.
Yea it sucks, to me the biggest thing is that for now it will be fine, but the future enterprise customers are the idiots making random stuff on the free tier of today
I think they could just make at least more limited free tier with bank card attached. That way there will be less people using resources and creating multiple accounts...
Free tier marketing
New product slogan: "Free forever".
Few years later, when users are hooked: "Give me your money!".
They literally said forever didn't they
Honestly, a SaaS not having a free tier is unjustifiable. I understand that compute resource have a cost, but a free tier is not about those resources, it's about getting a feel for the service. I don't mind when a company restricts the compute resource available for a free tier in order to improve the bottom line, but how am I supposed to try out the features and experiences said service provide without a free tier?
You got a shoutout on primeagen's video with your tweet.
On the topic of this video, I don't see how planet scale will be able to scale out in the future if it doesn't have a free tier plan that developers can play around with to be able to vouch for it, especially for something as critical as a database. Every cloud provider already has a managed database service that you can already use that users are already prone to be bought into (Big 3 offerings), or have an alternative that has a free tier that I can play around with on a side project. I'd imagine that the costs that they're seeing have to be unsustainable at the moment if there making a drastic decision off of this, and I wouldn't be surprised if in the future they decide to charge more for their offerings if their current plan is to go more towards a buisness to buisness model vs business to client.
As for future videos from another creator, I think personally it would be wise to leave the database layer to be abstracted enough so the user decides what they want to use excluding videos where you are showing offerings of a particular service.
This is my plan, I think generally I'll just have an orm and kinda just let the user decide, although I do want to come up with some alts for people...
If they have issues with how much the free tier costs them > they should have limited it in a way to be useful for overall try / test and to force moving to paid tier once trying is done.. Current price of 40$ for 1/8 vCPU + 1GB ram + 10GB storage sounds for cheapest option seems unreasonable.
Without the free tier and with their super unpredictable pricing, I don't see a lot of reason to choose them over something like neon or cockroachdb imo
CockroachDB has always been superior imo...and its actually serverless so I don't have to worry about cpu/ram
Cockroach DB is great, the guys there are really smart
I need to try it out, its on the list
I second the motion
take this L, using close source database is literal red flag and shouldn't be consider
Do you think just doing your own VPS on something like a digital ocean Droplet is a good idea for small projects ?
This is what I'm trying to figure out, b/c yes that 100% works, it is A LOT worse then the features pscale has...
Coolify is the new recommendation, making using vps apparently a lot easier.
If you only need it for to-do apps, why don't you self-host on a single instance?
Ah yes, let's make a to-do app with 10 3rd-party services, edgy lambdas
how do people not setup their own local database for fkn around? even if u don't want to install dbms's on ur local machine, docker is great on anything other than arm.
b/c I ship most of my fkn around projects lmao
@@bmdavis419 I can appreciate that
Kubernetes operators
I feel like they could have kept a hobby tier of two sorts. A cheaper, super skimpy, $5-$10/mo plan to really filter out wastage while being just in reach to play with. Or keep the free tier, but have it require a credit card with a dummy test charge to filter most bot/spam and then hold them to a 30/60 day trial.
Still fairly restrictive, but still preserving some of the top-of-funnel traffic they are killing right now. That's my 2 cents anyway.
Can you elaborate on when you mentioned AWS RDS is more expensive? Are you talking about the free tier of PlanetScale when comparing?
I reckon AWS would be cheaper compared to an even more managed solution like PlanetScale?
This is exactly what we thought going in, but its not at all lmao. Planetscale was cheaper because they were eating HUGE amount of cost for the free tier. One free tier instance probably cost them a ton of money. Go play with the pricing calculator and you will be very surprised lol, these AWS "wrappers" are actually usually cheaper on the small end since they loose money
@@bmdavis419 Yeah free 5GB of storage and conveniece are no joke 🥶. Wish they had a hobbyist tier for 10+/- USD - I'd pay without thinking lol.
Have you come across DB providers that come in the 5-10 USD range though?
1st
I have never seen anyone this fast holy
@@bmdavis419yes I've notifs on lol. Great content ! have been following since around 5k subs ig 🤔. What are some alternatives you would recommend to planetscale db ? I'm sorry if you have already mentioned it because I'm still watching the video
Just make sense for business perspective, now they have enterprise customers, they don't care anymore to those small devs.
here is a clue: back to prem lol
The free teir is how planetscale got our companies initial subscription money.
I used the free teir and I loved it despite the restrictions. I recommended it heavily at work and now we're using it in multiple production apps.
But that won't happen anymore :(
Yet again, capital has walked into the room just to execute the vibe and lay off employees.
If there was some sort of open source competitor that let's you use standard databases to back the rest of the functionality it'd be an absolute killer of planetscale.
well, the fate of all cloud based BS. just use a local postgres or something. If it's free tier then I'm sure your 5 dollar vps instance can probably handle it just fine. I don't see the point of planetscale's hype
What about Supabase instead or does it not have the same services?
Supabase is great, their DX was behind, but they are currently catching up with their new branching system
Thanks❤. Did you use ps for your ecommerce app?
I did, going to update it to use sqlite
Second! always love your vids!
What are some alternatives to PlanetScale?
Supabase, turso, cloudflare, railway, AWS, whatever Astro is shipping this week
railway is another alternative
Man I am in that bucket huh? Fuck I wish I could get a job though
No one can compete with Turso!
It’s not a database, its an IAAS provider. A database is a technology and its insane to use one you can not run on your laptop in a dev environment.
It is a database though. PlanetScale uses Vitess, which they made. Vitess is open-source and you can selfhost it. It's just too overkill for local dev.
I need to migrate off planetscale but I'm really undecided on which one to choose. I would prefer AWS since I already have everything else there (SST) but it looks its going to be hella expensive. Railway same thing, expensive, no backups, no branching. Turso feels like sooner or later will do the same thing as Planetscale, and Supabase is much more than a db so not sure if I should use it just for the DB, also, no branching on free tier in supabase
Neon DB bro :)
Use hetzner cloud + k3
RIP
I was thinking about move another of my databases to them, but now I have to migrate out of them, and I don't have the time!
I will be using both neon & cockroach db
I was considering Neon. What horror stories have you heard?
Just a lot of downtime and crashing, its also expensive as hell
@@bmdavis419 ah thanks, didnt know that
@@bmdavis419 I was using neon free tier and lost all my data. As well as constant downtime. They dont even show their status page anymore because it's that bad
just use tursodb
I could understand scaling back the free offering, but as many have said, the Enterprise of tomorrow is starting in some person's basement today. And if they start on something else they are not likely to switch when they get big unless whatever they are using completely craps the bed. This is definitely not a good strategy long-term
I don't know what their funnel is so who really knows, but realistically if all their sales come from B2B when enterprise DBs get too big then I'm sure they will be fine. Idk what the numbers are, its totally possible they were burning 7 figures+ on just dead free instances that they can now cut. Time will tell
planetscale wasn\t actually serverless , neon is , anything oracle related is bound to have shenanigans, tthey're lame for that
True, what I meant is that planetscale has amazing serverless support with their driver
I love Pocketbase. Big recommendation
Do you self host or use PocketHost?
Neon it is then.
Maybe neon is next 😳
Neon is pretty bad, wouldnt be suprised
If you've been using Hobby for projects that you show on this channel, you were breaking their ToS anyway. That's a commercial use.
Sediment and Insiderviz are both on paying plans