Yes, the SARASWATI River did exist after 2000 BCE | Myths Highlights
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2024
- In this excerpt from the video, "The Age of India's Oldest Book," Dr. M looks into claims about the age of the Saraswati River in India.
Watch the full video here: • The Age of INDIA'S OLD...
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Fun fact: The Indus Delta used to flow into present day Rann of Kutch (about 250-300 kms east of the current Delta) until a 19th century earthquake diverted it's course.
So it's not unusual for rivers in the Indian subcontinent to shift it's course wildly.
Also, Thank you Dr. Miano.
Yes, another big and very recent one is bhahmaputra, that changed course in 19th century because of a massive earthquake. That's how present day Jamuna (not indian one, It's in Bangladesh) turned from a small river to a very big one. The flow of Brahmaputra diverted into Jamuna. The old Brahmaputra still has flow all year round, but it’s now a smaller one.
Beside Scientific studys , please consider what Rig Veda itself says about Saraswati. It says Saraswati was big roaring river which was bigger than Ganges. So that should be considered.
See the full video. Link in the description box.
River Saraswati said in veda... is Body philosophy.... its Kundalini Energy....
@@paradesiaralan it's historical, philosophies, medicine, science and religious texts too. That's why it's called book of knowledge (Veda's).
@@girdrache saraswathi river doesn't exist physically, it's philosophy about kundalini... and stages of human spirituality
@@WorldofAntiquity their is no proof of Aryan existence or it's origin is unknown. Aryan in Vedas and puranas means people of the sun ☀️ (Arya) called Suryavanshi and nobility word is Aryan (chief, chieftain, king, leader, etc). Arya is word for husband too bcs he is head of the family .
Dr. Miano, are you aware, that today is Saraswati Jayanti? Or is it just a coincidence? 🕉
Bro it is not jayanti it is special day to worship
Chup
Coincidence.... His timeline doesn't match India's.... Also it's Sarswati Puja not Jyanti
Do you know the meaning of the word jayanti?
@@Vicky-fl7pv bhimta mil gaya
This is why it's important to know where and when old or ancient rivers flowed, and lay of the land. That's where you want to start your archaeological search. It's also how we determine the best places to go hunting for arrowheads, spear points, bird points etc...I'm Native American and it's very legal to hunt and keep any finds. I have turned mine over, but they merely date it and give it back to me b.c they have so many. I found a 10k yr. old Kansas Chert scraper. It's reddish and white. The school colors are red and white. I always thought that was neat. This was not found in Kansas, but whoever had it, either traded for it, b.c Kansas chert was highly prized, or and most likely, they migrated further south following the what??? RIVER. That's right!! lol. I found it on the very high banks of a river. However if you find something unique, always turn it over to the Archaeological Society in your state or University, if you live in a state where it's legal to keep artifacts. Rivers...lifelines. Thanks Dr. M.
The fact that the Saraswati dried up to a large extent by 2000 BCE and was annual instead of perennial makes it clear that the Rig Veda was composed before that because RV mentions it as a mighty river and mother of floods. So naturally Rig Veda should be dated before 3000 BCE. Even after the middle part dried up the lower a d upper parts were not as maasive as Rig veda claims them to be.This also explains why the Rig Veda doesn't mention about the big cities of IVC because they were non existent when it was being composed. It's impossibe for Rig veda to not mention even the ruins of IVC despite sharing the more or less same geography as that of IVC if it was being composed in 1500 BCE. There is also a bunch of other evidence which explains why the old books of Rig Veda should be dated to 3000 BCE such as the domestication of Bactrian Camel (2400 BCE) and Invention of spoked wheel (2000 BCE) which find no mention in the old books of rig veda.
He won't talk about it because that's not going to fit well with his Biblical worldview of 4004 BCE😂
@@GamerZone-ii5zt I thought he is an atheist ?😂😂
@@GamerZone-ii5zt he doesn't have a biblical worldview lol and isn't trying to hide anything in the video lol
@@LaggingGames Unfortunately, scholars who should only be concerned about facts have become Crusaders or Jihadi, fighting for their obsolete ideology. The earlier Western scholars were racists for sure and even many racist scholars such as Audrey Truschke exist even today. The reality is that the Aryan immigration Theory is very weak and based on too many flimsy assumptions. The point made in this video is a valid argument that should be considered along with all other facts.
@@ProudAssertiveHindu do you think european people originally came from india?
Finally a video on India, that too on Saraswati and Aryan migration
Thanks professor 😭😭🙏🏿🙏🏿
He has others as well; well worth checking out!
@@richardforster5394I know
Why you people are so desperate to hear somthing from foreigners??
@@NN94887 `; It is the same mentality that the Aztec and Inca tribes exhibited when they first encountered spaniards in front of their eyes. The native Indians thought similarly.and immediately got frightened that the Spaniards were sent by the Gods to punish them and therefore dropping their weapons, fell down at the feet of Herman Cortes and Francisco Pizarro.
@@NN94887 nah he is an expert not some IT cell know it all
Historiographic study of Indian myths is so interesting, as despite obviously most of the details being not factually true, there's such a mountain of actual historic knowledge hidden in these stories, such as the very existence of the Saraswati River.
Batte of ten kings in Rigved tells a fascinating story too. How Bharat tribe defeated an alliance of ten tribes and they were. Made to leave India and migrate towards the West.
@@tusharnagpal266no , they didnt migrate anywhere , its a hindutva distortion of 'Out of india theory' which is false.
@@sahilsingh6048 When exploring historical theories such as AIT, OIT, or AMT, it's important to recognize their speculative nature, meaning they involve a lot of guesswork. I recommend avoiding the introduction of political biases or propaganda into historical discussions, as they can distort our understanding and impede objective research. Because they can cloud our understanding and make it harder to conduct transparent research. It's best to keep politics and historical analysis distinct to maintain clarity and impartiality in investigations.
You're the one complicating matters and making things difficult with all of this!
This is an educational channel, this channel is meant for learning , so please respect the learning environment and adhere to appropriate conduct.
@@sahilsingh6048 Let me reiterate, all three theories-AIT, OIT, or AMT-are inherently speculative. There's no inherent truth or falsehood in them. By the way, researchers have long discredited and debunked the AIT theory.
@@truthreal3378There're a good high level cross references, hard serious intelligence/ intellectual analysis + comparing evidences from near by established regions facts etc by 10 to 15+ Phd scholars of Indo-SouthAsia speciality focused Archeologists, Anthropologists, Historians, Geology, Religions, Linguists, DNA& more similar fields specialists of Indians & non Indian Phds work together to produce 4-5 or more reports ( yes with some has slim 5-10% room for later modifications) as opposed to Ramayana, Mahabarata & their sub off shoots Bagavatgita & 6-7 other epic Mythologies Puranas written & rewritten by several bards, poets & mostly very very talented Fiction Writers who added more gods & new characters every 100 yrs, (even Vyasa put himself as 2-3 characters in the epics too) that were written for a long 300Bce-600+ce periods of rewritings, all are near 90+% Myth with some 10% warlords legends that changed to as Magical power flying Kings etc are NO Comparison against factual truths of 9-10,000 yrs only started village settlement s(Bhiranah & Mehghar) that changed to large IVC Ancjent cities being the true History of India facts, There were no flying chriots or blue Gods or Missile weapons etc used in any Kali Yuga Civilizations by aliens people that fell in to the ocean without any Trace stories except earliest great Fictional writers minds & lovely Imaginations.
I love this so much. Thank you for making this video Dr Miano
I love your Sanskrit pronunciation👌.
I think you should take a look at Ajantha and Ellora Caves, they're really fascinating, especially Ellora caves as they were once home to 3 religions, Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism.
Hinduism is not a religion but a colonial term refering to the people and cultures east of the Indus river. Hinduism includes multiple religions in that region. Buddhism is a part of that.
Exactly!@@sahilsingh6048
If you to go for these above 2 religions start from Hinduism as a counter religions to Cast/ varnaism of Vedic Hinduism, period, that's 200-300 Bce then you're missing the pre Yamnaya IndoAryan period that's mentioned here by Dr M as the Bhiranah village( also Mehrgarh village) both of 8-9000Bce period Indias earliest farming Archeo sites & History times, that's ~7-8000Bce years long early History of India, before the arrival of Rig Veda reciting Yamnaya Indo Aryan pastoral nomad/warrior times, but fortunately many Proto Bramhi,etc written info are found in India, China, Srilanka etc regarding this 2-300 Bce Mauriyan kingdom period of Mahavir& Buddha& king Ashoka times though
@@hans-joachimbierwirth4727 I know that but I'm talking in modern terms, most Sanatanis call themselves Hindu as well and Buddhism is a separate religion now alongside Jainism and Sikhism even though they started as one. It's not my fault.
Modern terms as in popular misconceptions should not be used and/or supported in debates on scientific topics or history, and they are also problematic for political reasons. There is no hinduism. There are religions like for example shivaism, brahmism, and others considered part of hinduism by laypeople outside of India. Calling oneself Hindu refers to a people, not to a religion. @@monitor-mindtheover-void6712
But they say,that there are several descriptions of Saraswati as a magnifecient river in Rigveda.
Can half dried river fit in to that description of mighty river?
Yeah, the problem is that most of the rigveda clearly praises saraswati as the mightiest of all rivers. If other rivers are flowing even till now, and saraswati had already became a perennial river back then, why would it be praised as the mightiest and grandest of all rivers??
As these outsiders can't explain their false theories, they kept promoting their false narratives by illogical things. Saraswati was a huge river. And also how a small portion of river can be defined as Mighty. This RUclips channel is so biased towards Westerners.
@@Lost_in_dreams My point was to raise question.I did not intend to doubt the credibility of this professor who has wonderful knowledge of Indian prehistory.His line of reasoning is based on facts and logical deductions.
Western(not all)scholars have taught we Indians to think in a rational,logical scientific way.
Yes it can. Flowery language is not evidence of anything.
@@Lost_in_dreams well it's description in rig veda was inconsistent with Saraswati(ghaggar hakra) we know.
Nice to see such work on Basant Panchami
keep up the good work. love this channel
Thanks Dr. Miano.
That flew by. Thanks for another fact-packed video.
Thanks so much. Interesting subject that I would love to hear more about.
thank for talking about Indian and Hindu history. The most underrated big civilization imo.
Thank you for your explanation 😊
More power to your elbow, Miano!
Hello Dr Miano. Could you, if havent't done so already, elaborate methods of aging (dating?) old settlements, one come to mind as Giza. What methods are used?
Hi Aki. Dr M discussed some methods here: ruclips.net/video/cSu0mdwumXw/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Saraswati Mostly Mentioned in Saraswati.
Sindhu(known as Indus) Mostly Mentioned in Atharvaveda.
And Fact is Aryan isn't a Race, It's a Title.
There are a particular sect of brahmins known as saraswat brahmins who eat fish and considered it as satvic food( they are the ones who reside near sarswati river and when river dried up, they were forced to eat fish due to droughts etc).
puranas are actually symbolism defining true events which needed to be decoded and same goes with vedas.
its just vedic sanskrit is hard to translate.
They all ate meat, the Vedics sacrificed all kinds of animals, Asoka banned animal sacrifices by the Brahmins and encouraged a vegetarian lifestyle after converting to Buddhism. This is why Hindus are vegetarian too this day.
@@JMichaelThames 😂😂😂😂ashoka was budhist before kalinga war
He doesn't stopped eating meat
I talking about saraswat brahmins who mainly reside near saraswati river which is the time before budha
😂😂😂😂look at the timeline i am talking about
Ashoka is recent 2200 to 2600 years old
I am talking about decline and dry up of saraswati river.
@@JMichaelThamesGo back to sleep son! 😂
@@ishaanrohmetra3447
Brahmins make up all kinds of lies about Emperor Asoka. Asoka is the Brahmins worse nightmare.
@@kbrv89
When I sleep I don’t dream about Hindu comic books.
☺hey Dr Miano!
I dont see why this Saraswati argument is perpetuated by anyone anymore. Archaeological findings deny any Steppe involvement in Bronze Age India and genetic findings propose a female mediated low steppe presence in the Swat frontier region of the subcon. There are newer samples soon to be made public by Dr Rai and team which will strengthen the case of steppe ancestry not giving IE languages to India and the Neolithic case will become stronger. Genetics will seal the deal eventually.
*Archaeological findings deny any Steppe involvement in Bronze Age India*
A very strange statement. How do they deny it?
*and genetic findings propose a female mediated low steppe presence in the Swat frontier region of the subcon.*
The genetic evidence is discussed fully here: ruclips.net/video/NQX5LlJ7YXg/видео.html
*There are newer samples soon to be made public by Dr Rai and team which will strengthen the case of steppe ancestry not giving IE languages to India and the Neolithic case will become stronger.*
We are all waiting to see Dr. Rai's paper.
@@WorldofAntiquity It has long remained a recognized weakness of the Steppe hypothesis (pp. 177-181 in (80); pp. 212-217 in (59); (90)) that the archaeological record lacks any obvious impacts out of the Steppe in a time-frame early enough to fit well with the scale of linguistic divergence within Indo-Iranic. Advocates of the Steppe hypothesis have widely assumed that the Andronovo culture ‘must have’ been Indo-Iranic-speaking, but even Mallory “find[s] it extraordinarily difficult to make a case for expansions from this northern region to northern India”, and more generally finds no obvious connection to “the seats of the Medes, Persians or Indo- Aryans” (pp. 191-192 in (90)). The urban culture of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) was originally widely taken to offer the least bad candidate (7, 89, 90). Samples of aDNA from BMAC contexts, however, lack the expected Steppe ancestry, found only later.
-Heggarty et al 2023
There is absolutely NO archaeological evidence for any variant of the Andronovo culture either reaching or influencing the cultures of Iran or northern India in the second millennium. Not a single artifact of identifiable Andronovo type has been recovered from the Iranian Plateau, northern India, or Pakistan.
- CC Lamberg-Karlovsky (2004)
There have been multiple attempts to find linkages with Steppe pottery with Cemetery H, Painted Grey Ware, Red and Black ware. All of them are far fetched and rely on conjectures. Its impossible for Steppe diffusion to be true. Unless the Sintashta abandoned their archaeological culture before migrating here somehow, went door to door recruiting people and teaching them Indo Aryan.
@@WorldofAntiquityHave you ever asked yourself this question that why Rig Veda never speaks of an original homeland and only describes Indian geography? Also the tree wood mentioned in Rig veda used for chariot making is indigenous to Bharata. How come they do not mention any other species which is foreign to Bharata?
@@kbrv89
1- from where did those chariots come when IVC lacked any?
2- from where did the horses come when IVC never reared them?
3- from where kings came when IVC had no king throughout the civilization.
4- from where well organised army and huge stock of weapons came when IVC had never had them?
5- from where social stratification came when IVC was almost egalitarian?
6- from where use of iron came when IVC used bronze?
@@kbrv89
@@kbrv89
1- from where did those chariots come when IVC lacked any?
2- from where did the horses come when IVC never reared them?
3- from where kings came when IVC had no king throughout the civilization.
4- from where well organised army and huge stock of weapons came when IVC had never had them?
5- from where social stratification came when IVC was almost egalitarian?
6- from where use of iron came when IVC used bronze?
7- from where R1a came when IVC lacked them?
Thanks Dr Miano!🙏
My God I am so fond of your awesome channel. It is seriously amazing science and facts. And the subject very appealing, "megalithic - ally" interesting. ;) Thank you so much Doc!
Please make a video on the book the beautiful tree by historian Dharampal ji it's about indigenous Indian education system and how British Christian destroy our education system please 😢😢😢😢
Our education system seems bais. Try using indians Or something like that . be a third party if you want to seek truth.
India had no education system
@@y1.5 And we got unfortunately to Aryabhatt, Ramanujan , Vivekanand ,Kalhan , chanakya and many more.
@@y1.5 omg 🤣🤣 I'm laughing 🤣🤣🤣
@@amittripathi5068 what is CHANAKYA?
Your video seems to be an answer to my observations on your video on Rigved. Happy to see now you have no doubt and you have accepted Ghaggar-Hakra as the Saraswati. The last paper you exhibited, is a scientific study and dates Saraswati very well. It is based on analysis of site material. Where the water came during 9000 BCE to 4500 BCE will also be resolved in due course. The issue is however secondary. The river deposits speak in the paper, so to say. Kindly, be flexible about date of Rigved. Mittanis spoke later Sanskrit. They ruled Mesopotamia in 1500 BCE. They had been in the land for 500 years earlier. They must have taken 500 years to migrate, going by migration rates in similar cases. Allow 500 years more for existence of later Sanskrit before the date of migration. So, later Sanskrit is at least 3000 BCE old. The older Sanskrit could easily be dated to 4500 BCE. In any case, the 1900 BCE to 1200 BCE story is outdated. In Sinauli we have chariots which are technically fully developed except spokes. They are from 1900 BCE. At least a 1000 years must have taken for such development. The idea of Aryans bringing chariots, hence Rigved, to India is dead, I believe.
*Happy to see now you have no doubt and you have accepted Ghaggar-Hakra as the Saraswati.*
It wouldn't be correct to say I have "no doubt." I think it is likely that the Sarsuti-Ghaggar-Hakra is the Saraswati of the Rigveda. But all conclusions in history are tentative pending further evidence. I feel the same about the dating of the Rigveda.
*In any case, the 1900 BCE to 1200 BCE story is outdated. In Sinauli we have chariots which are technically fully developed except spokes. They are from 1900 BCE. At least a 1000 years must have taken for such development.*
No spokes suggests that it is not Indo-Aryan. Anyway, how does a chariot from 1900 BCE show that a date of 1900-1200 BCE is outdated? What "development" are you talking about?
@@WorldofAntiquity Fully agreed with first point. It is important to remember that all conclusions are tentative. New information may change them.
Chariot is a vehicle. Vehicles have a dynamics, an engineering that goes into their construction. Sinauli chariots are nearly state of art for their time. Coming to this stage needs time. A trial design gets refined further and further. Those days evolution was by 'feel'. There were no theories. Even solid wheels had to be preferred over spokes. From stability considerations. Due to road conditions etc. So trial chariot is likely to be around 2900 BCE old. To use your words, 1900 BCE is the latest date. Not date of origin.
More. Two wheeled vehicles appeared first in Indus. They were used profusely. Most of the world of the time had four wheeled vehicles. Yet more. Spoked wheels were not unknown. A spoked copper amulet has been discovered in Indus. Substitution of solid wheel was easy if they wanted.
@@anildutta4195 Spokes are more advanced than solid wheels. Solid wheels had been invented long before spoked wheels. And two-wheeled vehicles are first attested in Mesopotamia.
@@WorldofAntiquity Spokes are definitely more advanced. However, they make the wheels lighter. Such wheels do not suit all situations. Like rough terrain, where they introduce instability while turning. I said two wheeled vehicles were profusely used in Indus. Rather four wheeled carts were likely not that common. Moreover, the Sinauli chariots are the only chariots excavated. Others are inferred from imprints or engravings.
@@anildutta4195 When someone finds an identifiable Indo Aryan chariot, then you will have an argument.
Thanks doctor for a quality video.
Do you have any links to good information on Nan Madol in Micronesia or Gudung Pedeng in Indonesia? These sites seem really interesting, but the online information seems to be dominated by the "Younger Dryas" and "Ancient Aliens" crowd.
According to BG Tilak and the Russian archeologists Guseva and Zarnikova Rig Veda was composed in the Arctic Circle of Russia, as some of the important events of Purana ( like Samudra Manthan or churning of the sea) took place in the Milk Sea north of Russia. Saraswati River was there in Siberia, now called Ob river. That was before the last Ice Age, which started in about 27000 BC. The Aryans came to India at that time. Relics of that age still exist in the Kola district of Franz Joseph Island in Siberia.
That is awesome 🎉🎉
Thanks🎉
As a Hindu, I’m not sure why other Hindus are obsessed with embellishment and being even older of a culture than we already are. 2000BCE is pretty damn impressive already.
As a Hindu,straight up denial of one's cultural antiquity despite it literally staring you at your face and resorting to the conclusions of the white guy about your culture is down bad
@@buddha9715 when sufficient evidence beyond WhatsApp forwards is presented I’m happy to change my mind
Thank you.
Awesome as always Prof.
The problem is that most of the rigveda clearly praises saraswati as the mightiest of all rivers. If other rivers are flowing even till now, and saraswati had already became a perennial river back then, why would it be praised as the mightiest and grandest of all rivers??
Lookin' sharp, Prof. GG
Thank you for your work! This is excellent information. History revisionists like abhijit chavda have some explaining to do
Abhijit bhadva is self proclaimed historian and is not to be trusted
The problem is that most of the rigveda clearly praises saraswati as the mightiest of all rivers. If other rivers are flowing even till now, and saraswati had already became a perennial river back then, why would it be praised as the mightiest and grandest of all rivers??
“She with her might, like one who digs for lotus-stems, hath burst with her strong waves the ridges of the hills.
Let us invite with songs and holy hymns for help Sarasvati who slayeth the Paravatas.”
Rig Veda: Mandala 6, Hymn 61.
“Pure in her course from mountains to the ocean, alone of streams Sarasvati hath listened.”
Rig Veda: Mandala 7, Hymn 95.
Don’t try to convince us by trying to give alternate meaning thru your imagination…..
As regards, Mr Talgeri’s & Mr Arya’s expertise, we don’t accept your authority on deciding their expertise. We are enough learned and know about that well. We have our own logic to understand their points.
We expect You to counter them point by point and prove your points.
You should watch the whole video, which discusses the verses.
You're right that I don't decide. Expertise comes from training and study, which they have little of. This is why nobody accepts their ideas except for other amateurs.
@@WorldofAntiquity ??? Definitely not you and your friends.
My simple question is read their arguments and comment/refute/argue…..
If you avoid…. Then your credibility is as good as as a big “NIL”
That what a logical person like me would conclude…
@@kamalakarkdeshmukh8126 If you knew anything about this channel, you would know I don't avoid.
@@WorldofAntiquity You do. Because you discard them w/o reading their arguments.
This is coming out of your inbuilt superiority complex.
First read their arguments and counter them. If I/we find them logically correct, I am ready to accept them (touch you feet - as in Indian tradition) else you are a big zero...
Frankly speaking, I think all the technologies & arguments should be mutually convergent to arrive at a common goal/decision.
Linguistic arguments can not operate individually in isolation w/o any progress happening in other fields like Textual analysis (introduced by Mr Talgeri), Epigaraphy (introduced by Mr Vedveer Arya,) Archeology, Genetics and so on.
What I observe is that you neglect all other fields except linguistics (which is also changing). So your arguments are not convincing to a layman likee...,
Amazing stuff in India!
Who are the scholars that decided the age of rigveda?
Written Version isn't too Old.
Love your vids.
Would like to comment on archaeology and ancient history dating. Please just state bc bce ad or ce but not so and so years ago. That tiny mental calculation stalls thought so that next statement is missed. Just a consequence of consciousness!
I also think using years before present (1950) is distracting thats currently 74 years off which is enough to distract attention.
Lol! Where is it 1950?
@@mabonbran8913you got it dude, zactly
@@mabonbran8913I think they try to standardize “years before present” with 1950 being “present.” For publishing, textbooks etc so a printing wouldn’t be too confusing. As years go by.
I love all of your videos! I wish you would do a video on the history of the horse in India. I've noticed the arrival of the horse doesn't gel with Hindu scriptures in particular, The Bhagavad Gita, and Ramayana. The horse sacrifice, the Ashvamedha Yajna was a European King tradition, and it's in both the Mahabharata, and Ramayana. The RigVeda states the horse fell from the sky and arouse from the ocean, too bad Ludivico Orlando didn't know that before his study was published. Anyways, I always thought the horse is key to dating these mythological Hindu scriptures, and proving the Aryan migration theory once and for all!
Kings have there own world. They were no peasants. Just like today's chiefs of countries they were well known people's. All across the lands however distant. People writing the books were elite of the time. It's no surprise traditions interchanged. And for aryan invasion. The interchange of genetic definitely happened. Can you categories it as a full on invasion. I think yes. It was an invasion but not the invasion in which they entirely flock around. Aka migration
Hey western mathaboggi your aryan migration theory got debunked after the discovery of sinauli 😂😂😂😂😂
Holy... The first attested trainers of Horse were Mittani kings who invoked Vedic Gods and they are said to have arrived at Turkey before 2000 BC. And the language for numbers is related to Interior Indian dialect (Prakrits). And the first domestication of horse happens in Uzbekistan which is closely in cultural contact with IVC. Where is Europe in this picture ? It is all South Asia/Central Asia
@@uniqguy111 and . does that boast your ego. does that make you more patriotic towards your country. you sir sound like you yourself trained horse's.
@@kingflockthewarrior202 why do u drag patriotism into this.. It is about logic. I read many state of the art genetic and linguistic papers and applied my own brain. Just read Dr Anthony Yates' works if interested.
Wow thats a great update over “Saraswati was a river in central asia” furnished by many AIT apologists! I am afraid just fine slicing of ancient timelines based on archeological evidence may not be as accurate as the AIT apologists want to believe. Doesn’t make sense to think that vedics occupied only the tiny upper stretch of perennial saraswati, and either wont explore the dried up middle portion down a few hundred kilometers on their horses or just wont know and still go on to sing praises of how big and mighty Saraswati is in the rigveda. Look up Saraswat brahmins. They are a community of brahmins that live in Kashmir and along the northern part of west coast of india. They have light skin n blue eyes. It is believed that they migrated to these two regions from the banks of Saraswati after it dried up.
*Doesn’t make sense to think that vedics occupied only the tiny upper stretch of perennial saraswati*
Why not?
*and either wont explore the dried up middle portion down a few hundred kilometers on their horses*
Who says they didn't explore it?
*or just wont know and still go on to sing praises of how big and mighty Saraswati is in the rigveda.*
See the full video.
@@WorldofAntiquity I watched the entire video and then provided my criticism. Like I said earlier, look up the Saraswat brahmin community. I bet you didnt know about them or what evidence does their existence provide. They are a living evidence of the consequences of drying up of Saraswati during/post the vedic era, and not before the "aryan invaders arrived". Their migration from Saraswati to other regions of India post its drying up is a well recorded history in vedic literature and their distinct light skin/green eyes phenotype even upto this day corroborates the authenticity of this theory of migration. They are the only brahmin community named after a river/geography. Why? Because they wanted to preserve their distinctive identity of saraswati origins after the river dried up and lost to history. Even today they are considered to be the highest among all other brahmin communities because they are believed to have composed the vedas. Certainly a more definitive evidence than fine slicing ancient timelines using archeology which may be grossly inaccurate, incomplete and subject to prejudicial interpretations.
Could it be in this later period pre 4,500 yrs ago.
Along with the arrival of running fresh waters coming in seasons bringing too newer soils.
Within a time frame, I think you mentioned around a thousand years seasonal to flooding.
Before eventually drying up.
A thousand years a span more enough time for a large Society adapt grow and flourish within a slowly changing environment.
Massive change doesn’t always happen overnight.
Great post again very much appreciating owning some detail to consider out from.
Thank you very much
Seems strong indicators may point to perhaps a same shared technology in knowledge.
As same also used far away upon the Nile Delta a very same time period.
Land management a marvellous innovation.
Could it be perhaps lessons learned in the Indus were employed to create next the bread basket of Egypt.
Could it be a same land management been successful there.
Have been a same original knowledge learned there.
Can you do some research on the North East region of India. Everyone focuses on North and South and the North East is always left behind. It has a very unique story.
Praise Shiva I was worried for a moment. I really like this ancient punjabi stuff can you also look at the western african empires Ghana and Songhai etc? They are also very interesting.
Thanks
Yamuna ans Saraswati flowed in Southern Punjab (Today Haryana)
If it wasn't for presentations like this, I'd have to go off what others said years back. I'd come across some dating methods using the dried up river to claim a false date for the writing of the Rig Veda.
Now I know better, well I watched your other vid on the subject but this one made it more obvious.
The Rigveda is a hymn, not a scripture. It got recited, not written.
@@hans-joachimbierwirth4727 I'm a meddler if you will on some ancient history. I take note if a subject catches my fancy.
The Rigveda is a holy book linked to an interest in the spread of languages.
It wasn't to long ago I even looked online at a sample of text.
I then watched a vid or two of these hymn's being chanted.
all very interesting, facinating even.
No, the Rigveda is NO book!@@vespasian266
There are a number of sarasvati rivers in india, that exist today.
U hv no concept of Vedas. Mahabharata has a conservative dating of around 3000BCE based on astronomical evidence within the epic. There are also others like Nilesh Oak dating it further back to 5516BCE based on his astronomical observations of certain events mentioned within its texts. The Hindu epic Ramayana has a conservative date of around 6000BCE. Nilesh Oak takes it further back to 12,209BCE. Both epics mention Vedas as ancient compositions which give the blueprint of creation itself.
The christian view of creation happening at 4804BCE has led to the entire literature & knowledge of the world being shrunk within this timeframe.
Vedas were recited and transmitted orally. So, v can't use written records to date it.
Nilesh Oak is a chemical engineer who tells people what they want to hear for money. And if you think that the world's archaeologists don't believe anything happened before 4804 BCE, then you don't have even a basic understanding of archaeology.
you lost me at Nilesh Oak
@@WorldofAntiquity and what r u? Someone who tells people what they don't want to hear?
@@samskarebyaha I present the facts, and sometimes people want to hear them, and sometimes they don't. The point is that the presentation is not determined by what end result I want.
These facts are only assumptions those studies are full of fake assumptions @@WorldofAntiquity
There are 100s of such river systems in India (the format you mentioned). There must have been 100s back then.
Only a selected few rivers are revered in our civilization. To understand our system of veneration one has to understand our culture deep enough.
Magistral! Many thanks. Now I understand some parts of the hindu-nationalist apologetics that I was missing before ! And now I know how to respond on this part of their totalitarian mythology.
jihadi talibani muslims still cant explain the pre islamic indigenous pantheon of gods followed by their arab masters.
@@trrinketlad7940so you agree with the above guy without whataboutry?
@@sahilsingh6048 agree about what exactly?
@@trrinketlad7940 agree about hindutva pseudo history distortion ?
@@sahilsingh6048 u made that hindutva sh** up. History has been distorted by anti indian liberandus and maulvi fascists who created pakistan,east pakistan kashmir, islamic pockets in india and are responsible for genocide of non muslims in those regions.
afghanistan was 100% hindu buddhist population all r vanished
even todays afghanistan and central asia was part of Mahabharat ( greater india)
5100 years ago, simple google will help you, make a video on this sir, u earned a new subscriber
Gilgit mentioned WOOOOOOOOO🥇🥇🥇
You have missed few very important detail, and those are that not only Satluj, but the river Yamuna also used to flow into river Saraswati, and it turned its course several times before joining the Ganga river. Yamuna separated from Saraswati around 49Kya. And then Satluj separated from it around 13kya. But, in the earlier portions of the Rigveda, Saraswati is not mentioned like this distorted river not, a river with small volume and breadth. In the text of Ramayana, Satluj on the other hand is mentioned flowing westwards, i.e., away from saraswati.
It's not clear to me why the period before 49kya would be important to look at. See the full video on the Rigveda for more. Link below this video.
@@WorldofAntiquity the period of 49kya is not important. The extent of Saraswati is more important. While finding the paleochannels for Saraswati, obviosuly it was derived from various satelite imagery, OSL dating etc. But, the course was already known to us. There are fairs and gathering being organised for centuries, possibly millenia besides the river, paleochannels now.
@@WorldofAntiquity and you didn't consider most important thing, that the time of composition of Vedic texts and time of their writing are entirely different. Also, dozens of vedic texts were composed at different periods which is obvious from the Sanskrit used in the earlier and later parts of different vedic texts.
@@WorldofAntiquity also you did not take into account other texts like Ramayana to corroborate when deriving time for Vedic texts
@@riturajsingh3402 *you didn't consider most important thing, that the time of composition of Vedic texts and time of their writing are entirely different. Also, dozens of vedic texts were composed at different periods which is obvious from the Sanskrit used in the earlier and later parts of different vedic texts.*
If you held back your urge to write more comments and instead watched the video I told you to watch, you would have known that I DID consider these things.
The Ramayana is not contemporary with the Rigveda Samhita.
❤
👍
*Happy Basant Panchami*
Dr Milano... just 5 years ago many were certain Saraswati is a mythological river and not real river. Believe me evidence will come that Rig veda predates the officially given figures by Max Mueller.
The Mahabharata says that Balram brother of Shri Krishna did not participate in war instead went on a pilgrimage to the site where saraswati disappeared in desert...
The rig veda describe saraswati as a mighty river ....
Will request you to see Yajna devam's deciphering IVC signs to be Sanskrit phrases and how the ivc sign changed to brahmi and later to devnagari and modern Tamil brahmi... with Grantha coming in between.
You can type Yajna devam and go to his channel and download his paper....
Thank you Mclovin...
06:13 😃What happens to the upper part.? The scientific article image appears that it terminates into underground. This is exactly matching the tradition that Saraswati disappeared as 'Antar vahini' (flowed underground) which is once again proving that the Indian books were not wrong 🙂
Jesus Christ did not exist. Jesus Christ is a myth. Dr. Miano please make a video on this.
Follow the water follow the food that's what humans been humaning for longer than we know. Yes I know that's not a word.
Thank you for your scholarly work on my homeland.
I live exactly where Saraswati i.e. Ghagar Hakra enters the Punjab plains.
1:40
Sorry but how am i supposed to take someone who pronounces the words so wrong as a scholar on the subject?
What about someone who can't spell?
@@WorldofAntiquity I did not claim to be a scholar of the English language, did I? For someone who thinks himself an authority on this subject I would expect him to atleast learn the proper pronounciation , it's not that hard. If you are least bothered about such a basic thing, why should anyone think you have done any Thorough research on the topic? Besides, typos are not intentional. Pronounciation is.
@@azainkadri9556 I don't think I am an expert on this subject. I never claimed to be. I am a teacher who educates the public about what the experts on the subject say.
@@TruthSeeker-zv1ec I am a human who lives on earth. So my history is the history of the earth. You and I are the same species.
@WorldofAntiquity great. Next up please try to bust the Biblical myth of 4443 BCE
Brahma = Abraham
Saraswati = sarah
Hey there😊
It's actually,
Abraham= Brahma
Sarah = saraswati.
We are the oldest known culture. So it is like what I said. How is my narrative ?😊
Buy it or,
Fu¢ off. Keep your god to yourself or take it somewhere else.
Much older than 2000 BCE
Myth
@@sahilsingh6048like yo MOM
Good that you brought this on the day of "Saraswati Pooja". also called Vasant Panchami.
अम्बि॑तमे॒ नदी॑तमे॒ देवि॑तमे॒ सर॑स्वति । अ॒प्र॒श॒स्ता इ॑व स्मसि॒ प्रश॑स्तिमम्ब नस्कृधि ॥ Rig Veda 2.41.16
“Sarasvatī, best of mothers, best of rivers, best of goddesses, we are, as it were, of no repute; grant us, mother, distinction.”
I thought Saraswati puja is part of Navaratri 9 days festivals in October-November period
In 1500 BC the Europeans and Central Asians migrated into the Indus Valley
Please read the description of the Saraswati river in Rigveda. It certainly doesn't match what you described as almost dried up river.
Watch the full video: ruclips.net/video/ZvTlJDWG0lM/видео.html
It was said that Saraswati confluenced with Ganga, which doesn't look like that way how rivers are proposed.
That description is in later literature.
Some new evidence has come to light about harrapan civilization, please cover it
You'll have to be more specific.
@@WorldofAntiquity aah , apologise I was in metro, dropped the comment as a reached my station ,
So there's some new research, some DNA evidence was found that dates the civilization to 8000 years old , and there was also this new site (I don't remember the name) that shows the level of planning , drainage (like the already discovered in other City?) And planned houses with bedroom and kitchen like concepts? I don't really remember the details right now I only skimmed throught the article as I was busy I just remembered it as I was watching this video
@@pratikmohite6202 Ah, I see. Yes, there were villages there that far back. But you are getting mixed up between when settlements were founded and when they built the other structures. Urbanization came later.
@@WorldofAntiquityThank you for the explanation! While my expertise lies in cybersecurity rather than history, I've always maintained a keen interest in the past. I recently came across your channel, and it's proven to be an invaluable resource for delving into historical topics in an accessible and unbiased manner.
I was particularly intrigued by recent findings indicating that the Harappan civilization may be older than previously thought, dating back around 8,000 years. The discovery of human remains and the presence of planned structures with advanced features such as drainage systems and planned houses is fascinating. However, I may have misunderstood the timeline of development regarding urbanization in the Harappan civilization. It seems there might be a distinction between the founding of settlements and the later stages of urbanization, which occurred gradually over time.
Given these developments, I thought it would be compelling to explore these topics further in one of your informative videos.
Given the demands of my cybersecurity profession, I often find myself relying on channels like yours for detailed insights when time is limited. Keep up the excellent work!
@@pratikmohite6202 It's a fascinating area of history, for sure. I am planning on visiting India next year and will be doing some videos.
I currently stay on the banks of gaggar river, it’s mostly dry! It flowed quite full last year that too after 2 decades. But again only for few weeks. Hard to imagine it’s a source of permanent human settlement.
It hasn't always been that way.
GouthamK how far are you from Rakhighari & Bhiranah Archeo sites near Hisar Haryana, have you seen these sites along this dried up rivers
If we take 10-20% water from every rivers of Sapta Sindu,Ganga etc we can revive Saraswati river..b
@@nnes759I stay around 100 to 150 km from those sites. Yeah I have visited them.
The river Saraswati has always been a subject of wild speculation and interpretation among the right and the left when it comes to the Aryan migration theory......it is indeed very difficult to understand the mindset of the composers of the Rigvedic hymns where Saraswati has been epitomised as a Goddess, as a mighty river, as a confluence of lake and later as a guptagamini......various paleographic studies have been interpreted for the existence or non existence of the river.....who will unravel the mystery of the real Saraswati???😂😂
You still got Fidel Castro's portrait behind you.
Pretty sure that's Ralph Nader.
I thought it was his brother Dennis Castro.
Thanks Professor. Could you also think about/share your views on the following-
VERY IMPORTANT : Sir, on this matter, I must give you further information(If you are not aware).
-> The language of the Avesta is very close to vedic sanskrit.
-> Rig Veda does not mention a foreign homeland and mentions only Indian geography.
-> Avesta does mention a foreign homeland. IN FACT, IT ALSO MENTIONS THE SARASWATI RIVER.
Why could the Avestan Iranians, not have migrated from India into the neighboring Iran? It has seemed very probable to me.
-> Mitanni, in the further western reaches also show very close similarity with the Vedic culture in terms of language and Religion.
I have felt that atleast this shows a westward migration from India into Iran and Middle east in the 2000-1700 BC period.
Also, recent excavations in Sinauli(Uttar Pradesh) suggest the so called 'Aryans' were living in the eastern most reaches of IVC or probably beyond it, already by 1800BC. It would suggest that the Aryans were present in the western areas even before this. If nothing else then this certainly pushes the date of Aryan migration further back. Meaning Aryans were living together with the IVC. Rig veda also mentions Vedic and Non-Vedic tribes forming alliances and fighting wars together. Seems like these people were living together and did not consider others or themselves as foreigner.
Sir, last year, I remember I made arguments against you without knowing you. If you have not accepted my apology, kindly do.
Well but they mention Saraswati as a Violent river not a Perennial river there is difference in between those 2 things and that violent river could only be possible before 2,000 BCE as you have mentioned
What do you think the river was like during monsoon season?
@@WorldofAntiquity A simple monsoon doesn't makes the level of water that huge such that they are praised in the Rig Veda. The violence that is mentioned is clearly visible during 5,000 BCE-4,000 BCE period they might have composed it later in 3,000 BCE Onwards
@@WorldofAntiquity I wanted to Ask one important thing seal Number 420 famously called Pashupati seal there is a Yogi in that seal present and if I'm not wrong then it's a Mulabandhasana it could also be a divine figure if those are 3 heads most likely a form of Brahma or Rudra or something like a Mix so why is a Yoga Practice is out there in Indus seal I'm mean is Yoga Indegenious to Indus valley or Is Yoga Indegenious to Rig Vedic people who owns it, because then another problem starts Rudra is always portrayed in Yoga position which is a Rig Vedic diety.
@@WorldofAntiquity should we say that Aryans formed completely the Hindu culture or is there some parts which modern day Hindu's adopted from Harappans there has to have something which is Indegenious to Harappans and also Indegenious to modern Hindu's. Is Modern Indian Religion an Amalgamation of Harappan beliefs, Indo-Aryan beliefs, and all other beliefs which formed later.
@@user-cl9bd1tz3b I think you need to watch the full video. It is linked below this one.
The name sarasvati (having many lakes) is descriptive here. It fits the bill for a river that gets flooded in rainy season and leaves lakes behind during dry seasons.
Your Thumbnail is a photo of America’s Southwest, is it not?
No, it's actually the Indus. Since there isn't much left of the Saraswati today, I had to use something similar.
😳🤔😋😉😊🤗😀
Sir 0:03
Rigveda describes Saraswati river as a river which starts from mountains of Himalayas and reaching to Sea. The description you have shown doesn't match Rigveda.
Also Rigveda describes Saraswati river as a Grandest of the grand river.
So the question is when was the last time this Grandest of the grand river was flowing.
Because Saraswati river was also mentioned in Mahabharat, but didn't had this status as "Grandest of the grand river".
*Rigveda describes Saraswati river as a river which starts from mountains of Himalayas and reaching to Sea.*
A fitting description of the river every year during monsoon season.
*Also Rigveda describes Saraswati river as a Grandest of the grand river.*
And you think this means the biggest? Do you know that Saraswati was never the biggest river?
Great Analysis
I don't know how you have the patients to deal with pseudohistory-peddling people in the comments.
Psuedo history ? you mean ramayana / maha bharatha ?
@@tsMuthuraman-hm6wg Presenting those as historical fact is to peddle pseudo history.
@@RangerJackWalker Yes, both ramayana and maha bharatha appear to be psuedo history .
@@tsMuthuraman-hm6wgthey are legends
@@sahilsingh6048 By legends what do you mean ? history or story ?
There is absolutely no evidence for such a river. 😂😂😂
Indian people know when the Saraswathi flowed and when it stopped flowing. You are an outsider who does not believe that India was civilized long before Europe. It is a fact.
*Indian people know when the Saraswathi flowed and when it stopped flowing.*
From supernatural powers or from physical evidence?
*You are an outsider who does not believe that India was civilized long before Europe.*
Indian cities appeared long before European cities.
Lol andhbhakt stop this cringe , you have no right to tell somone who is a qualified historian who knows better than you . just bcz unfortunately you were born to be an indian this doesnt makes you right . pajeets.
No , the Vedic period is way much earlier... Then the Mahajan padas... Then the IVC
Evidence?
You got the whole timeline messed up
Lots of Confusion Exist. Please be aware.
No, in Rig Veda the Saraswati River is defined as the probably widest River stream in the Indian Subcontinent and a loud Roaring River but since 6000 years ago,the Indian Monsoon declined,so was the Water Volume of Saraswati River. Now obviously,
The Vedic Phase of Indian civilization goes 6000 years before today ,when the Saraswati River hasn't started declining and
NASA's satellite images shows the wide River bed of Saraswati, from Today's Himachal Pradesh to it's delta in the Kutch region of Gujrat.
The Rig Veda doesn't "define" anything. It's not a dictionary. And the river's decline has nothing to do with the monsoon. The monsoon still comes every year, and the rivers fill up.
@@WorldofAntiquity I have read Rig Veda , and you have not .... please read it first then talk facts not made up stories...
@@dhruba5849 I read every poem in the Rig Veda about the Saraswati out loud in the full video. Why not give it a watch before proclaiming yourself the know-it-all of the world?
Actually that word Saraswati is 1000 to 1300 years oldest sanskrit word...even though Sanskrit is 3000 years oldest language as per the science... 2000 BCE is much over bruh😂.
Science isn't Mature Yet, Also Science isn't Absolute.
You've to knows that Fact.
Where all my hindutva bros at? Leta get some angry copypaste here!
Oh I meet them regularly on half of my India based comments & even 5% of my rest of comments, cut & paste ! Really? they definitely have some English writing problems, their leaders should Google translate their talks 1st& pass it to RSS trolls army😅
@@nnes759every communitys trolls have their own peculiarities!
I missed it to say that there's a few Rss I noticed already here earlier( it might grow a bit in the coming days perhaps if & when the viewership go up), with their wild named & numbered handles, even Dr M.. responded to 2 here, i did to 1-2,
Oh hey, on Twitter I read several Congress MPs & whips screaming dictatorship in Indian Parliament, over Bjp freezing their bank accts of income tax.. reasons, just as your election count down clock started already, just to block opposition MPs preparing for the election, lol, when is it exactly?
Same ,i used to be just like them an andhbhakt , i feel cringe i remember that i used to belive Hindutva cringe that indian monarchy is 20000 years old and every human just originated from india someway.😂 now i atleast try to guide these brainwashed people so that they atleast use there own brains.
And yes dont forget to delete this comment bcz this comment would have angry toxic spamm of hindutva IT cell.
Let's reinterpret everything! Wouldn't that be lot of fun..? Reality is for losers!
Sindh Valley Civilization of Pakistan ❤️🇵🇰
Pakistan! 70 Years old Country?
Bc hahhhahahheheheheheh 🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🫴🫴🫴🫴
@@heiAMB india is the same age
Assumptions, assumptions and nothing but assumptions based on preconceived notions and biases.
I never heard that said about hydrological data before.
No need to try too hard "manage" the discoveries, Dr Maino. Truth persists howmuchever you keep trying. Its clear that Rig Veda was composed much before 2000BC. Forget about Aryan tourism theory 😂
Well i agree on Saraswati river's existence.....but its not right call our history as myth in title...
"Myths Highlights" means that this video is a highlight from my "Myths of Ancient History" series.
Lol , use your brain atleast
@@sahilsingh6048 have used it enough spot vitriol spitters like you
@@pranavvenugopal2609 , brainless , his video is about 'myths' debunck
By the way. I don't understand you sit somewhere out there and you talk about India and its myths and history. And say that this is wrongly said and stuff. Sometimes you might have to come see it in your own eyes for some magics over here. Let me know when you come here. I'll change your belief on things you told against Graham Hancock, flood myths, proofs of Mahabharat and ramayan ❤️
The migration of steppe people to indian sub continent has already been proved by genetics !
Andhbhakts have no right to play outsider vs Native cards
But the vedas talk about the saraswati as the biggest and the best of rivers, and as flowing from the mountains to the sea…so this cannot be right. It means the vedas have to be composed before it stopped being fed by sutlej.
The Rigveda was interpolated and amended over several centuries, in some passages the Saraswati is described as the mightiest river in India, in other passages it's smaller, I don't think it's so easy to date the Rigveda and the Vedic civilization, one needs to be well versed in different fields of science, as well as have knowledge of the Rigveda. Usually scholars have one or the other, never both
Do you have either or both ,?
@@tsMuthuraman-hm6wg Yes I've been reading and listening to conferences by Vedic scholars on this issue for years, and nobody has yet come to a definitive conclusion. So how can this RUclipsr come to a conclusion so quickly with incomplete knowledge on the subject?
A proof of his incomplete knowledge is that he doesn't even talk about all the interpolations and amendments in the Rigveda and the varying age of the different Mandalas
@@MARK-gp9hb It need not be interpolated but can be a rainfed river shrinking during summer .