Beatles Red & Blue REMIX REVIEW |
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- How do you like the new remixes to the Beatles Red and Blue albums? Matt discusses thoughts and observations on the songs and on the concept of remixing.
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My favourite Beatles listening experience is playing the original mono 45s on a portable Dansette record player. That’s how those records were intended to be heard and it’s a completely transcendent listening experience!
I enjoy the CD versions of the singles and EPs made in the 80s, they're great!
I remember in my house in the 1950’s we had an enormous radiogram with a record player, it had big speakers on both sides, the sound was amazing, especially for me at 5 years old when I started listening to rock & roll records. I was lucky having an older brother and sister, they brought lots of great singles in the late 1950’s. Later on in the early 60’s I had a typical record player. Playing all the Beatle records when they were released was an event, oh the memories 😊. I don’t think anyone has mentioned that on the new re-mix I Am The Walrus, there’s no pigs grunt after John sings the line “see how they smile like pigs in a sty, see how they snied” lyrics!
“Walrus” is unforgivable, specifically the end. Sorry, but the creative owners were John Lennon, the other Beatles, and George Martin. Giles was supposed to enhance the sound using modern technology, not to reimagine works that were already genius.
Well said
The creative owners were also whatever was on the radio that day as well. Give it a rest.
@@johnalello9233 This was the track John frequently cited as his favorite from the Beatles catalogue. And somehow Giles doesn't fix the biffed chord in the last verse of "Let It Be" because You Can't Change History, yet he'll add orchestral swells and completely downplay King Lear and do other things to reimagine one of the most legendary song outros of all time with "Walrus." I mean, would it be fine if he got rid of the gradual Moog crescendo in "I Want You" because Paul didn't like it that much? Look, I am not so much of a stickler that I think remixes should never happen -- though Geoff Emerick, for his part, was annoyed at remastering that clarified instrument sounds because, as he said, "You weren't supposed to know what it was." I think often it's for the good to enhance the sound, especially if it seems like the only reason something was buried before was the limitations of four track. But it can also go too far. And here, it went too far.
Agree with you 100%
The yellow submarine soundtrack album is the best remix of them all. Period.
George Martin's composer chops was on full display on Side Two which featured his "incidental" music for the animated feature.
@@professorhamamoto Not that Yellow Submarine. I’m talking about the soundtrack album released in 1999.
That album is named Songtrack NOT Soundtrack. And, yes, it's the best.
I love Giles Martin and Sam Okell's remixing. That rap section really enhances A Day In The Life.
There's a fine line between remixing and re-recording. I get a tad bit uncomfortable with the liberties taken in the studio to recreate recordings instead of enhancing what was already in place.
So just listen to the 59 other versions all these songs have had. Its impossible to even keep track between mono and false starts and fake stereo ànd the version where the guitar is on the left instead of the right etcetcetc
I think Paul had a small hand in it
I'm told that the drum smack on the Hard Day's Night intro has always been there...as well as a piano chord. Just because they exist does not mean they need to be brought out. They were mixed the original way for a reason. To tell the truth...I do not get any more pleasure out of most of these remixes than I have always gotten from my original records. Some of them sound fine, some just weird. I think that for me the most valuable improvement was done to Revolver with the improved stereo field.
Timmy!
The only issue with the opening of AHDN for me is that the piano component of the famous chord is now much more prominent than ever before. It diminishes the finely balanced collective whole of the sound by reducing the volume and impact of the guitars - especially George’s 12-string. This is particularly clear on headphones.
I like your attitude here. They can re-mix till the cows come home, but people are going to either cherish the original recordings or ultimately re-mix themselves. I figure most people are going to pick and choose among originals and re-mixes. For the first time, for my 13th birthday in 1973, my mother allowed me to pick out a birthday present, I picked out the Blue album. As the bandit said in the black & white Treasure of the Sierra Madre: "We don't need no stinkin' re-mixes!"
I love a good quote from a Bogart movie! I appreciate the comment.
My lifelong ride with the Beatles began when they came through a three-inch speaker...so the answer to the question is... yes... everybody over thinks it.
The Red could've easily had I should've known Better and Rain added as mentioned in the comments. Another track I would've added is the much less talked about I Call Your Name, which I think is a great song with so much energy. I did notice that you could hear more of the fiddly guitar work from George in I Saw Her Standing There that had previously been drowned out imo.
Absolutely agree with your B&W film comparison. The medium is the message, and the Beatles will forever be linked to an era of mono recordings and vinyl. We should learn to embrace and cherish that rather than insist we know better by tinkering with something already perfect.
Well said, willgirling.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I agree with the sentiment 100%. The example you used playing devils advocate, the everyday Joe prefers Color TV and Stereo sound. The artistic crowd that prefers B&W and the audiophiles who yell for mono are the minority. In any case great video and always enjoy hearing your take on things.
@@cactusjackNV Thank you, James.
Thanks Matt, for lowering my FOMO when not buying these albums for a 4th time (after cassette, LP and CD)
The 🍎 Corps cash Cow need s to be fed yearly it seems.
That drum part in A Hard Days Night was always there, but it used to take a back seat from the guitars. Raising the drums volume specifically makes if feel more like a jump-scare rather than a pleasant surprise if that makes sense.
I had never heard that before in the mix!
I look at these remixes the same way as I do with the other albums that Giles worked on in that there are some tracks I love what he did and others I prefer the original stereo or the original mono. It’s always nice to have a choice and we always have the originals to go back to…..thanks for sharing your thoughts Matt. Happy Holidays!
Thank you, Bill!
@@popgoesthe60s52I essentially agree with that but I go back to my War on Treble comment and add War on Stereo to that because nowadays everyone seems opposed to great treble and the kind of stereo separation we loved in the '60s but that faded out in the '70s as I was discovering it.
Of course I'm using "War" as a facetious shot at all the Culture War crazy which I mostly ignore. 😊
I can't imagine Giles ADDING to the mix of "A Hard Day's Night". I imagined that it was always there, just dropped down in George's mix. But what do I know? I wasn't there.
Also, "We Can Work It Out" seems to have a new beat to it. The tamborine is perfectly mixed and Ringo's drums drives forward differently than before. It just has a different beat than I remember hearing before and I absolutely love that. It lends to Ringo's greatness.
Some have commented that is was there just buried or practically inaudible. It was to me anyway.
Per Wikipedia, when it talks about the opening chord, it does mention that Ringo played a snare. So it was always there, just brought up. I actually don't have an issue with it. I think it adds a new raw power
Great video. I enjoyed it
I've yet to buy them , but as a first generation fan , I have multiple versions of these songs.
I'll wait until they show up in a used CD shop.
Or wait until the remixed full albums come out in a box sets.
It was always there. I can hear it on the '09 version @@popgoesthe60s52
I think you'll find the snare was already there on AHDN.
IN EVERY OTHER BBC, LIVE , OUTAKES ITS THERE.
I like the whole mix on this
Peter Cobbin was responsible for the remix of y. Submarine and was given free rein pretty much. I definitely like his mixes of that set of songs than pretty much anything Giles has done tbh
Agreed.
Very much agree. I remember how disappointed I was hearing the new Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, and With a Little Help from My Friends on Giles Martin mix compared to Peter Cobbins better mix.
You have to keep in mind Giles has NO familiarity with any of these songs except as raw multi-tracks. The final mixes are not burned in his brain he did NOT grow up listening to them. The new mixes should have been saved for future Deluxe Editions not the Red and Blue. I find nothing on the set that hasn't been remixed better in the past or by home-brew remixers using spectral demix algorithms.
Which means he's probably the wrong guy for this job. I think Apple likes the marketing angel of having George Martin's son involved.
They removed the reverb on the vocals of Nowhere Man and It became dull. Meh. I think those mixes are fun novelties but are terribly misguided. It seems that every element of the song is competing with each other for attention instead of creating unity so things are mostly clashing. Turning iconic songs in some sort of easter egg hunting screams lack of artistic sensibility.
I love the Red album remixes. They sound great and thankfully they didnt go overboard with the bass like they've done lately. Really irks me that the bass is now the loudest part of the mixes while simultaneously softening the electric guitars
Yes. If you’re constantly aware of the bass in any song…it’s too loud. In the early days the Beatles complained that their recordings suffered from a lack of bass. And they were right. But now with the new mixes it’s swung completely the other way. The only one I’ve purchased is the stereo mix of Revolver. Listening to it I could almost picture McCartney sitting at the console saying, “Hey Giles, what say we nudge up the bass on this one a little more-I can still hear the other instruments.” (Give me the original mono version any day.)
Very well said, all of it! Although I'm probably more interested in pure sound quality than you seem to be, I still agree.
Two thoughts about mixes. First, there are tons of "demixes" on RUclips already, so you're probably right (at the end of your video) about "private" technology leading to everybody creating their own mixes at will. If that's the case, there will be onethousandandtwo variants, all of them a matter of personal taste, but only ONE original (the black and white one, so to speak). That will re-instate the originals in their proper place as the go-to versions of what the Beatles wrote and performed.
Second, the YS Songtrack remixes (which are, to me, preferable to the Martin versions where available) and even the Love mash-ups were (digitally) remixed from stems, that is the basic tracks that were combined ("bounced down") and subject to overdubs or additions. If the Beatles recorded guitars, drums, and a piano on one track, that was one stem; if they recorded guitar and drums but added a piano together with a tambourine on a further track, that was two stems. That means, Cobbin (and later Hicks) could alter the stereo placement or EQ or volume of individual tracks but not of individual instruments if they were not recorded on their own separate track. In contrast, the MAL technology which was first used on the Revolver remix box and is also behind the new remixes on the Red album (I'm not sure if the few new tracks on the Blue also use it) can isolate (extract) individual sounds from one track or even from a mono or stereo record (as they did here with Love Me Do) and recombine them at will. Listen to And You Bird and She Said on Revolver which deviate from the originals by separating the elements of the carefully blended drums/percussion (Bird) and guitars (She Said). In other words: demixing tinkers with the overall sound the Beatles intended. It can make things clearer, yes, but it changes the music one step too far. I'm not looking forward to remix editions of the first six albums, I'm afraid.
And finally, there's the brickwalling and absolute sound saturation overkill on the Red and Blue. Something you won't notice when you listen on your phone with noise-cancelling headphones but will hurt your ears when you're listening in your room, trying to relax on a hard day's night.
I appreciate the comments. It will be interesting to see how the software improves as the next Beatles releases come out.
I watched the whole video, I had another comment but I was still mid-video, and I have a few interesting facts: I don't think the new fans won't care about the mixes. And also, indeed, making fan-made mixes is already a thing, because I fall into both, I am a semi-new fan, I got into The Beatles just a month before the first Now and Then rumors started spreading, and after listening to the 2009 remasters, I taught myself how to make custom mixes with vocals centered and instruments made to sound better. You can really easily do this using MVSEP and any audio software, with some careful listening and adjusting. I even have a group for people who make these custom mixes now, and so far we've done plenty, this christmas we are planning on releasing a remix collection for ALL of the Capitol USA Released albums, mostly new mixes besides a few exceptions where the official mix was already very good.
If you are curious about seeing a few of the tracks in a comparison as long as youtube will not copyright claim for, look up "Civil Defense Spot Records"
Thank you! I will check it out.
Very cool! yes I believe the best work on the Beatles going forward will be done by fans and not Apple employees.
@@popgoesthe60s52 Hey, dont know if you'll see this since the video's already half a year old, but you should check out MVSEP's new model, BS-Roformer. I tested it, and it's capable of what you mentioned in the video, isolating vocals extremely well. The instrumental suffers but listening to the vocal track is on par with listening to just the vocal track from a songs sessions.
The bass player and the drummer is the ones still alive. The bass and the drums gets more pronounced in the recording on expense of the guitars. Wonder why they made that decision. :)
Personally I love how they made the bass more crisp on some tracks. Like on Old Brown Shoe.
If I remember correctly, it was George who played bass on that?? Said so in an interview at one point.
The bass and drums are turned up because it’s closer to the R&B record levels (which they loved) which they weren’t allowed to match in volume because they were told the needle would jump off the vinyl. The beefier mix also makes the overall sound more modern.
I was listening in my car yesterday, and right after the solo of Old Brown Shoe I heard a scream coming from the left speaker. Has never noticed it before. Lol
There was always a snare / cymbal hit on the opening chord of A Hard Day's Night - I assume they just brought it out more in the mix.
They brought it way out more! I've just listened to every version under the sun and the drum hit, if there, is mixed so low as to be inaudible OR the front end of the hit is cut off entirely. I got my headphones on and volume cranked.
The greatest value for me with the remixes is the more clarity in the separation of vocals and instruments. I'm a guitarist and songwriter, so the remixes are like a study tool, to pick out and understand what's going on in their arrangements & instrumentations. I think you are right that they aren't going to replace the original mixes. I've yet to run into any new fan that has complained about mixes, they are just excited new fans as we once were. The Beatles train just keeps going, it's great that were talking about them still.
Maybe Giles isn’t really all that talented.
Paul Hicks was the remix engineer on the Love album, with Giles & George Martin credited as producers. So not sure if these should be described as 'Giles remixes' as many are doing.
Peter Cobbin did a great job also on Lennon's solo albums. Since he left Abbey Road he's been doing mostly film work I think.
The 1993 Red & Blue CDs still sound great on my JBL Flip portable stereo speakers where you don't need to worry about extreme panning on some of the Red album tracks!
Often times with regard to Apple, they dispense with some contractors/employees without warning for what amounts to a "change of scenery." Though I would never discount the marketing advantages to continuing with Martin family member in the "re-mixers" chair.
I've been disappointed by all of the Giles remixes. The 1999 Yellow Submarine should have been the template for remixing the catalog. Since the original mixes won't be phased out (hopefully), go nuts, separate every instrument and vocal and spread them all over the soundstage. Make the mixes a truly revolutionary experience for those of us who have heard them for 50+ years. The fly-by-night "new" fans won't know the difference, and, as you said, the ones who realize the worth of the material will seek out the original mixes.
I think they did a fantastic job with these remixes, I especially love the red album. I hope they will remix pre revolver albums. My ear noticed the “difference” on She Loves You, but I can’t pinpoint what it is. Was there always a drum beat buried on the opening chord of A Hard Days Night? I think it was always there. My favorite mix is “This Boy”
I was wondering the same thing. I think people should be much more careful about their statements. You see, nowadays a youtuber often has the aura of an "expert". I strongly suggest that you edit the video and add a little text, or something, to clarify this.
George Martin once observed that one of the best things about the Beatles is that they were "of their time". I understand the desire to make their music more appealing to modern ears by emphasizing the bass and the beat. But what makes them the Beatles is that raw Rickenbacker sound of the Beatle-mania days, the acoustic focus of Rubber Soul, the psychedelic experimentation of Revolver and Pepper, etc. They were of the 60's. To remove them from that is to make them less of the Beatles.
That's a good point. It is pointless to redo their entire catalog. It already is as close to perfection as we are going to get.
Good review! I agree with all of your points, especially the politics, the social dynamics of the caretakers of the catalogue. The Beatles have been reduced to two survivors, who naturally like to hear more drum & bass, the son of the producer, who doesn't want to ruin what his father accomplished so he feels obligated to mix conservatively while considering the wishes of all stakeholders, the two powerful and wealthy estates, who feel responsible for looking out for the aesthetic and financial interests of John & George, and not least, Apple wants to do the right thing commercially with good taste. So, there's this swirl of concerned interests, all bringing to bear what each of them wants. To me, as a first generation fan, their music always sounded great, mostly attributable to George Martin's high standards and impeccable taste, but also to the genius of the fabs. In the years after the original releases, the release that has excited me the most has been the Love album, the mash up. It's been the most innovative thing and to me, sounds great. All the remixes are OK, but I kind of wish Giles (with Paul's blessing) had pushed them farther into really new mixes, like radically new mixes, a kind of radicalism John was keen to advocate for, I think. I always wanted everything to be as psychedelic as possible, even the early material, but I understand they don't want outcry and vitriol from conservative, old fans, who make up the majority of purchasers. Anyway, too many chefs spoil the soup, or however that saying goes. As far as the remakes of Free As A Bird, Real Love, and Now And Then... I think that's the order of quality. Now And Then being the weakest of the three and probably shouldn't have been attempted, but it's OK as a novelty. The best thing they can do is go through all of the tapes in the archive, including outtakes and demos, separate all the sounds, and preserve it all for posterity, because there may come along a true genius producer in the future, who will do mindblowing, radical, but very beautiful remixes perhaps many years from now. George Martin called the tape archives of The Beatles "the holy grail" and the band on records is the act we've known for all these years with genius still shining through it all. To me, English cultural history has produced the King James Version, the works of Shakespeare, and the works of The Beatles. That's how important it is to preserve the tapes, digital files, and original pressings.
Loved the separation of the remixes but felt the lead guitar in "Nowhere Man" should've been centered so I ended up de-mixing it and re-mixing it myself for my own personal version :-)
I'm part of the younger audience these remixes are supposed to appeal to, but my preferred way of listening to the Beatles is actually a hard left turn on all of this as I listen to the mono albums almost exclusively. I don't particularly love the precedent of re-directing people en masse to new mixes of these albums. They're mostly fine, fun alternatives for hardcore fans, but aren't the versions people have been listening to and praising for almost 60 years and aren't the way people should experience the band for the first time.
Personally I thought the 2009 remasters was a pretty definitive statement on what the Beatles should sound like canonically for the sake of preservation, particularly the mono set, though I realize that doesn't sell forever. I do think they did a good job in expanding these two albums so I was very happy to go ahead and make my own playlist of 1962-70 using the original mixes.
Personally, I just wish they would stop with the reissues. The original mono mixes were P E R F E C T. You can't fix something that isn't broke. Also, I absolutely love your channel, Matt. All the very best to you and your wife. I hope this finds you both in good health. Much love
The main thing about 1962-1970 (2023) is the added 21 tracks; you now have something you can hand your kids or whomever and say, "THIS is the Beatles". The previous editions' tracklist plays it waaay too safe. Now, with tracks like "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Within You, Without You", "Glass Onion" etc. you have a pretty fair representation of the width AND depth of the Beatles' overall catalogue.
1962-1970 is now an "instant Beatles collection" or maybe a real Alpha-Omega. at last.
LOVE the new "Walrus"! At the risk of triggering the purists, I wish Giles had taken more liberties -- in fact, McCartney had urged the remixers to take things farther out when the whole reissue program began. That's MY "missed opportunities".
Yeah, I too wanted them to go farther and create more fresh sounding remixes, like radical departures.
Glad you mentioned the 1999 Yellow Submarine soundtrack; it was the brilliant work of producer Peter Cobbin. It's a shame that Mr. Cobbin didn't remix the entire Beatles catalog! Your comments about various songs on the red and blue are right on target; I agree with you that with the very early songs there might be "only so much" they can do to enhance the sound. Good video, thanks.
Thank you, Richard!
The one thing that I was really disappointed with the Yellow Submarine Songtrack was the opening of It's All Too Much, I was expecting it to be more bombastic than the original. But it seemed to be very toned down.
Hard Days Night, checked and the drum beat was already there just lower in the mix. Agree with Love me Do choice, I'm loving I am the Walrus until the end - its a bad choice and interesting you mention about the shepherd tone. Love your channel and work as always.
Matt, I think you got it wrong about the opening chord in Hard Day's Night. Go back and listen to the original recording and you will hear that the drum is there on the opening chord. The difference is, it's very buried in the mix, but you can hear the thud of the drum.
I've just listened to every version under the sun and the drum hit, if there, is mixed so low as to be inaudible OR the front end of the hit is cut off entirely. I got my headphones on and volume cranked.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I'm listening to the 2009 mix, just on some small $30 speakers and I can hear it. Honestly, I never noticed it before, but when I A - B listen to the first 5 seconds of the 2009 mix and the 2023 mix I can pick it up. It's so low in the mix, but that is a 'thud' there.
Downloaded both (because I HAD to) and was neither pleased nor disappointed. Well, maybe a little disappointed by certain things. Okay a LOT disappointed by a HANDFUL of things. Some of the mixes were fine. Some were borderline outstanding. Some left a lot to be desired. I’m happy that certain songs were included (I Want You (She’s So Heavy) in particular) but where the hell is RAIN? And several key songs from A Hard Day’s Night were omitted. And do NOT get me started on how that iconic opening riff of A Hard Day’s Night was outright BUTCHERED. I have the feeling that when I create a playlist, I’ll follow these as templates, but include the songs I feel were unfairly excluded, and substitute some mixes from previous releases. In short, what a lot of us do anyway. And the Phil Spector mixes of the Let it Be tracks? W.T.F. Giles? Particularly since Paul was more than likely consulted and he LOATHES the Spector mixes! Okay, having vented, I give the entire set a 3 out of 5, even with those complaints. And after all, we still have the older mixes, don’t we?
P.S.- it would’ve been nice to have the little rarity tweaks like the extended coda of And I Love Her, the high-hat intro of All My Loving and the extended version of I’ll Cry Instead without the reverb. Sorry. I get carried away when it comes to The Beatles
I hear ya, Rick. I can get carried away too!
As far as remixes, I can't think of worse examples than 'Satisfaction', where instruments and Jagger's vocal float disconnected from each other and the 40th Anniversary Doors album remixes where we discover what a great backup band John Densmore had.
Still not buying them. Enjoyable video.
Walrus is not very good and memorable for the wrong reasons..
13:36 it's not a drum hit on Hey Bulldog; it is John hitting his amplifier and letting the reverb spring makes that noise.
These Remixes are definitely made with Headphones (Earbuds) in mind. I like the separation as I never liked the original Stereo versions
I think that’s becoming the main (if not only) way music is listened to anymore
@@patrickthomas8890absolutely
Kids like to move
I think the new mix of the end of Walrus is a travesty.
i believe drive my car's "rhythm" guitar is actually lifted from the word, which is why it appears to be found only in the love version at the moment. If you listen closely you can also hear the same piano part found in the word, panned to the same side too
as for a hard days night, i think that hit was already in there, just buried. it is a bit audible in the 2015 remix of the song though that was also done by giles martin i think haha
Matt as you know every major artist, especially older ones are remixing all their work. The Who, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd etc. Fans will know to distinguish the OG to the newbie versions. IMHO the OG's will be remembered as the ones to go with.
Totally agree on AHDN opening chord, Matt. Like you, not an audiophile but whether or not that drum beat was always there is not the point. The remix altered what was perfection into something far less so.
I've had Beatles vinyl in my life forever (61 yrs old!) including the red and blue albums and on the original CD's too. I'm just not sure I need to hear separated guitar mixes and various other studio trickery to appease the headphone/ear bud listeners. To me, sitting down in front of my hifi with a drink listening to what made the 60s great is a ritual that doesn't need tampering with. It didn't hurt them back then and it shouldn't now. Always appreciate your insights. Cheers from a limey living in Wisconsin! 🍻
OMG! I just heard the new version of A Hard Day's Night- I couldn't believe what they did to it. The drumming is much more prominent throughout the whole track, not just on the intro. I get that the Beatles have to be available to new audiences, but the key is to preserve the sound- once you start messing around with the intros, the songs lose all their emotional power.
Ringo’s drums are a highlight to these releases.
I actually stopped your video 3 times to go listen to A hard days night, If I needed someone and Hey bulldog ( the new versions are on RUclips at least for now) the phrase “just because you can doesn’t mean you should” comes to mind. Yeah why would you mess with the most analyzed opening chord in music? I didn’t think If I needed someone (one of my favorite songs too)was that bad.(The solo is more a D chord with some pinky play anyway) but Hey Bulldog was the real WTF with the explosion sounding drum in the chorus and I’m not sure but I think they mixed down the bass which makes that song. Paul actually signed off of that???
I don't think these guys (Ringo, Paul, Lennon Estate, Harrison Estate) really listened to these closely. AND there was a deadline so Martin and Okell had to crank 'em out. Haste makes waste.
The new Red and Blue have made me go sour on this remixing enterprise. Specifically it's when they add things like in the coda of Walrus, and the drumbeat in Hard Day's Night. On Walrus in particular, they added orchestral sounds through the "radio tuning," turned up the static, and drowned out the King Lear dialogue, which I always thought was a remarkable touch given the serendipity of it coming through the radio at just that moment of recording. I find it disgusting that they'd tamper with such a historical recording in that way. And it's a shame, because overall they are providing great stereo mixes. With Pepper and the White Album, they gave us much-needed stereo upgrades and sonic range. And that's true for most of the Red and Blue. But now I'm becoming more of a mono purist. I listened to the mono Revolver and Past Masters yesterday, and all those songs sound great in their original form. I never appreciated the mono albums that much, but after all the tampering I hear in the remixes, I suppose we should give more respect to those original pre-stereo mixes.
Why mess with perfection? I think is all short sighted business decisions to make money now and put the legacy on the back burner.
Isn’t the rhythm guitar on the love version of Drive My Car just the chords stabs from The Word, as the whole thing was a mash up…
That is a good question. I could swear I had heard the rhythm guitar in an alt version long before the Love project but now I am second guessing myself!
I think the remixing is all over the place...but that's just me, I guess.🙄
I did the smart thing of streaming this rather than purchasing a physical copy.
There was always a snare hit on AHDN opening. I always heard it before. It is possible that they isolated it more but it was always there. The problem with the AHDN intro now is it sounds so weak compared to the original version
They messed up the perfect balance of guitars and piano on “The Chord” on AHDN and as a result the magic is gone. BTW supposedly there IS a drum hit on the original version of the opening but it was mixed so low as to be almost inaudible. What dopey Giles did was boost the volume of the drum hit-just because he could.
I'd like to see this separation technology used to make true stereo mixes of other seminal 60's albums such as "Ogden's Nut Gone Flake" and "Odessey And Oracle." In the case of Ogden's no multitrack tapes exist.
A few thoughts. I'm an audio engineer/music producer, so I suppose I hear these things differently than most people do. I'm not a fan of Giles Martin's Beatles mixes. My quick take is: Guitars are usually clearer, drums often are, vocals can go either way, and the bass sound is usually changed a lot. With regard to the bass sound, "ruined" is the word I usually use. 😉I do understand why Apple is remixing these things for modern sensibilities; they don't want them to sound weird or bad when they come up on a Spotify playlist alongside newer music. But in trying to take the "60s-ness" out of the sound, I think they remove quite a bit of the character that makes these recordings great.
The other thing I'll mention is that I think we old fans are not who these products are being made for, and I imagine our squawking is just an annoyance to whoever is making the decisions. Some millennials listen to albums, but I think most all of generation z consumes music by the single song, in playlists. So I imagine the album releases are a pretty insignificant part of the revenue-streams that Apple expects to generate with these remixes.
Great points, Pete. I would go so far to say that these mixes are made "to appeal to everyone", which is why there is such discord. The other question is, will the modern listener even appreciate these songs long term?
@@popgoesthe60s52 I think so. People still listen to Mozart, you know?
Great, as always, Matt! I will be buying the red and blue albums on CD as we no longer have a turntable or a place to put it. I'll listen for the changes you mentioned. Adding a drum beat to the opening chord of 'It's Been A Hard Day's Night' is mind-boggling! Why??? Why would a "new listener" care if a drumbeat was added? What does it add to the song the Fab Four didn't think of? As far as drumming on 'Love Me Do', better Ringo than Pete Best, right? I enjoyed your review. Thank you, Matt.
BTW: I meant to comment on the albums you placed on the backwall of your music/broadcast room. Thank you for placing Bing Crosby in the middle. I love Bing. George Harrison was a fan as well. 😊
Thank you, Jacky!
Apart from the remix issues, it would have been somewhat cool to have included I Should Have Known Better and Rain to the 2 collections. Then we would have had the entire Hey Jude/The Beatles Again American release represented. Rain is missed more perhaps, but both are iconic tunes and it would have been a nice bit of tidying up as far as I'm concerned. Love your perspective as a non audiophile. I'm very critical, but not over the top with all of the gear.
Thank you, John. Yeah, some in the audiophile world get a bit snobby for my tastes.
I feel like this whole hard-panning issue could be solved, if they just released the mono versions on streaming. As a younger Beatles fan, there's some things I enjoy more about the new remixes than the older masters, but I also think there's something lost when you clean these songs so much, that they lose that 60s shine. It's a topic I'm somewhat conflicted about, because I enjoy the 2019 remix of Abbey Road more, than the 2009 and that begs the question of do I actually like the album. On the other hand, if the 2019 remix didn't exist, I think I would still love the album.
I also think you're absolutely right about technology making a lot of this obsolete. While I do like the idea of a human person making creative changes and artistic decisions, that's not going to matter really if you can just with a touch of a button remix entire discographies.
Streaming mono versions would solve everything, but I guess you can't re-sell them in the same way. I think this was a short term money maker without regard for the overall legacy.
Matt, overall i'm disappointed with what they did with the "Red". The songs before 1964 are all over the place - narrow stereo, bad EQ, muffled sound, bad instrument separations. This is most of the songs. The gold standard is "I Saw Here Standing There". All the songs should be at this level - but they are not. She Loves You, Please Please Me, Love Me Do, All My Loving are downright BAD!! Then there is the original - beautiful - wide stereo of "I Feel Fine" & "Eight Days A Week". Now we have them in narrow stereo. Why mess with songs that had a good mix for a start ? Yes, there are 2 standouts - "Yesterday" & "If I Needed Someone". This team don't match Peter Cobbin & team that did the "Yellow Submarine Songtrack". This is a level of excellence!!
They did not add anything that wasn’t already there. That drum beat in A Hard Day’s Night was always there. Listen to the original mixes it’s always there.
It may be there but I could never hear it before. Now it is obtrusive.
In A Hard Days Night the drum shot with the chord has always been there. We just didn’t hear it all that well
there was always unmistakably drums accompanying the Hard Days Night intro chord. On the 2009 stereo remaster its almost as evident as on the 2023 mix. They may sound more noticeable in the new mix because of the clarity/separation of all instruments.
Just listened closely to A Hard Day’s Night from the older red album, and there’s a clear drum hit on the opening chord. So, you just didn’t hear it before. One of Giles Martin’s goals, as I understand it, was to mix the drums higher and centered, to give it a harder backbeat. That’s what occurred on this particular song. The hit was always there, but buried. Personally, other than the occasional mixing lapses that happened (the slide dropout in Old Brown Shoe), I like hearing things that were nearly imperceptible in the mixes.
I can't hear it now!
Yeah, Matt at the end you made a very sound prediction. Everything gets jumbled up. There will always be the mixes that people heard and knew in the 1960s. So you'll always be able to hear today what people heard from that time. Frankly, that's what I prefer. It might not be perfect and it might not sound modern, but it's original and just as timeless.
Interviewer to John: Will The Beatles be getting back together? John: I don't see that happening, but you've always got the old records to listen to, if you want to reminisce.
NZ$220, I refuse to pay this for songs that I mostly already have, unbelievable price.
The box looks nice on the shelf but that what collecting has devolved into - not listening, but looking.
The outer box slipcase is nice but the album sleeves look dull being unlaminated. No poly lined sleeves for the vinyl and cramming 2 LPs into one pocket is a rather poor design. Should have been a tri-fold jacket. Tacking on the newly added songs as a bonus disk instead of inserting them chronologically was also a huge mistake. No booklet either. Very poor and rushed job not worthy of the exorbitant price they are asking for it.
At this point I don’t plan to spring for these new releases either, Matt (and I’ve collected ALL of the deluxe box set remixes). I can’t believe that I’m saying this, but I think I’m on overload. I probably would have bought a deluxe “Rubber Soul”. I didn’t have high expectations for “Now and Then” and while what they did was impressive from a technological point of view it still amounted to “putting lipstick on a pig” to me. Sorry…
I agree... I will be buying precious little more Beatle releases in the future.
I call it what it is : The War On Treble. I hate that bass is so preferred today. Of course We Can Work it Out is an awesome tambourine song. And I also like the great stereo separation that Capitol Records did here on all the albums. More Treble, you funkers! 😆😆
That is a great phrase, “the war on treble!” Love it.
It's difficult to find headphones that doesn't artificially enhance the bass. I just love my pair of $10 Sony's that add nothing to the music. The only thing that comes close is a very expensive pair of Beats headphones that is perfectly flat.
Great post! I really like all your videos and watch them more than once. I am a fan from the 60s, i bought the original Beatle vinyl albums and 45s, bought some of the reel-to-reels, then the 8-tracks, then the cassettes, the half-speed masters, then the CDs, the imports, then uploaded the music to itunes or my ipod, etc. I love the Beatles but i just dont feel like buying the same music over and over again anymore. as you said in your "Now and Then" video, there is something to be said about preserving the Beatle legacy. the remixes arent doing it for me. BTW, love your Beach Boys posts - fantastic!
Hey Toni, I appreciate the feedback - thank you!
What did we expect from a stereo "She Loves You"? For it to be at least as clear as the mono tape used on Past Masters, Mono Masters, the 1992 EP-cd set, etc. Instead they used a needledrop as the source, complete with groove cramming in the last 45 seconds (the vocals broke up). Once they sourced the song this way the project was ruined. The fan-made stereo version by ProfStoned used the USB Apple from 2009 as the source and his stereo "She Loves You" sounds terrific.
Also noteworthy: the mastering on the vinyl versions of these sets doesn't have the compression or clipping present on the CD and streaming versions of these sets. "Warm" doesn't describe the vinyl mastering, it's open and breathes, and rarely if ever screeches like the cd/stream. For me, some of the percussion / treble is too entirely sharp and mechanical sounding on the cd/streams (a couple tambourine parts are torture on headphones) . The vinyl by contrast is far from a difficult-listen.
Thank you for this run down, Tom. It was very helpful. I have stated several times in the past that the best
quality transfers/remixes will be done by fans, as in your example of ProfStoned. These are fans looking to preserve the legacy through care and clear judgement - not through a marketing initiative.
Apparently the master tape for She Loves You (and the B-side I'll Get You) was lost very soon after recording, which is why the version they recorded in German a few months later had to be a complete re-recording as they didn't have the 2 track with the clean instrumental track. All new remasters or remixes as I understand it, have had to use a commercially-released record as the source, suggesting that no master disc survives either.
I haven't heard the new remix yet, not least because I prefer to listen to music as it was intended to be heard, but it's bizarre if it sounds technically worse than previously released CDs.
In some ways, the 2009 remasters (I have both mono and stereo box sets) are the 'gold standard.'
@popgoesthe60s52. Well said.
Seems that there is growing interested in hearing "stems" or tracks dedicated to a single instrument or isolation of vocals that are constitutent elements of the larger "song." Would like to see a CD/DVD with high-res stems-only compilation with expert commentary hyper-links.
Yes, the stems are interesting to listen to. But when I hear them, I hear mistakes, loose playing and some sloppiness. It's amazing how the ensemble playing and production hides a wealth of errors. This is yet another point against the Beatles skeptics who suggest session players offered "flawless" performances on Beatles records!
I was watching this video again (and I do often watch your videos again, they’re that good), and I listened to the opening chord of HDN on headphones. I compared the 2015 mix to the 2023 mix. In the 2015 mix, I heard the drum beat in the left channel; while in the 2023 mix, they centered it, so that’s probably why you notice it more. But this shows that the drum beat is not new to the current mix.
Added a percussive beat to 'AHDN' Matt? What I am hearing is a clipping noise, simultaneously as the chord is struck.Whether it be guitar, or piano.In that opening chord.Almost when you punch in a sound, on tape.It can leave a clipping noise? In this case, it almost comes across as a percussive sound, as it's that harsh, but to my ear I hear no actual real percussion.After 20 playbacks of the opening chord, and hearing other versions, ranging from 73 Vinyl -2018 DeAgostini Vinyl this noise is more pronounced on some, more than others.Depends on the recording, and the mix.With the 2023 being the most announced yet.I wish I could explain it better, but that's all I got!
Great episode as usual Matt. If I had the money, I'd buy the original earliest UK Parlophone pressings in mono of all the Beatles stuff in near mint condition. The UK versions are how the Beatles intended the songs to sound. 1960s stereo mixes for pop music was generally terrible.
I read recently that the Beach Boys would listen to their mixes on cheap little 3 inch speakers to see how they would sound on car radios and cheap little clock radios, as they knew that's how most of the teenage fans would be hearing the songs. The mixes were made to sound good on tinny, small low end speakers. Few teens were playing records on anything close to audiophile equipment in the 60s. Car radios at the time were AM only with one little 4 inch speaker in the middle of the dashboard. The cheap transistor radios and car radios of the time were about the sound quality of a fast food drive up intercom. Most record players looked and sounded like child's toys, which in effect they were. Like those classroom record players in the 1970s with the speaker built into the record player itself.
Today's $20 bluetooth speaker is light years better than anything available in the 1960s to the average person.
The car radio thing is specifically USA. In the UK (and in other European countries) teenagers didn't drive, let alone possess cars. Record players with built-in speakers were not all plastic either. And mono on your parents' big valve radio in the sitting room sounded pretty impressive. That is not to say that today's sound is not much more advanced even in very cheap equipment such as computer systems.
A lot of bands would make a cassette of a song they just mixed and take it out to their cars to listen to. Nick Lowe did the same with the albums he produced. He said both he and Elvis Costello grew up with cheap record players and he mixed his material to sound good on them. Listen to his Pure Pop for Now People/Jesus of Cool album. The production is clean, clear and sounds great on cheap equipment.
For the most part, I really enjoy the new mixes, especially on the Red album. I loved the first 4 minutes of "I Am the Walrus" as its cleaner with more separation across the stereo spectrum. The King Lear recitation is mixed down low during the song's ending where I personally can't hear the ominous "Bury My Body" which is spooky and an important element of the song. I hope they revisit this song if there is a Magical Mystery Tour set in the future.
I hope there is a box set of that coming!
Beatles 45....1966 Michelle/Drive my car...I can hear the Guitar there ,,,
In I Am the Walrus, how is the shepherd tone lost in the new mix? Have you compared it with headphones to the original mix? As you said in this video, it seems as though you do "just hear things" at times..
The beginning of it is there but then it goes into a whole different collage of sound, completely interrupting the shepard tone. It briefly comes back but by then it has broken the tone progression.
Just listened to Walrus back to back, and that Shepard Tone is really obvious (once you've had it pointed out) - how could they do that?
Matt, listening to Sinatra live and I wondered, Would his works be re-modified?
As demixing software becomes commonplace, I think that fan mixes will soon be way better than these 2023 remixes.
I agree with your response. I can’t name drop but there is a few fan remixers that did a much better job with both Love Me Do and She Loves You
Matt glad you enjoyed these it really goes to show you do have an emotional heart!😂
I'm sure I didn't praise it enough according to some fanboys. Thanks Martin!
Never use headphones myself. Never had problems with the original mixes.
For Nowhere Man, I have the American stereo mixes, American mono mixes, British mono, British stereo, 1987 CD mix, 1999 remix songs from YS & now 2023 remix song from the Red Album.
The 1999 YS remix is my favorite.
At least somebody took their time instead of crapping out a video in 9 mins and call it "a winner"
Interesting. Didn't know about the AHDN thing. I passed on these. I have too much Beatles already in various iterations😀
Agree completely about the drumbeat on the guitar opening of "Hard Day's Night." If the Kinks remix "Do It Again," will they put a drumbeat on their rip-off of the Beatles guitar-opening as well?
Could We fans take GilesM to Court and sue him ?
!!! NO MORE DEMIXING FOR PSEUDO-REMIXING - demixing means still second or third generation tapes and computer tricks - IT"S NOT SOUND FROM FIRST GENERATION TAPES !!! - Please Please Me sessions on bootlegs still sound much better.
Why nobody asks Steven Wilson to do it ? There are good remixes of a lot of albums - and I like the idea of remixing from original first generation tapes without too much other unnecessary job / corrections - like Steven Wilson does it. Why don't they talk to Mark Lewisohn ? - or do they ? How easy can sb may make sb else a fool - too many reviewers I'm afraid repeat the narration from the production team.
Examples :
I AM THE WALRUS '23 - couldn't the remixing team try to find the original King Lear recording in the BBC vaults ?
NOW&THEN - JLennon liked his voice to be multiplied, multilayered - the engineering team forgot about it.
SHE LOVES YOU - if the German version has instruments on the left and new ('64) vocals on the right, it means the background instrumental exists as separate track from vocals - hence - it must be a tape of lower generation and better quality.
REVOLVER - maybe I am wrong here - but - is it really true that they need to use computer programs to do a good job to make better separation of instruments, voices - demixing for remixing (!?) - as far as I remember f.e. from M Lewisohn's book - still exist the first generation tapes and takes that were used for "bouncing" to another tape with reduction of tracks to mono or stereo (this way engeneers were able to use two or more tracks on a new tape) - so there are kind of two masters - one original attempt, master take, and the tape onto which it was copied - I guess we don't need super duper pseudo-modern sound ! - what we need is the best possible SOUND FROM THE FIRST GENERATION TAPES, even if some instruments, voices are on one track - who cares ? However - I see that the idea of putting the evolution of songs somehow is now applied on this new box coming - I wrote about it in my comments before. Demixing squeezed sounds from one track DOES NOT bring us to first generation tapes / sounds ! Also - there is no feeling of a band together now in my opinion. Where are the clear drums now from Got To Get You Into My Life ? And Taxman - the version on one of the session discs has background vocals in both channels, panned between speakers (like done on Yellow Submarine new mixes) - beautiful - so why not on the new mix of this song opening the album ? Couldn't they remake-remix TNKnows into a kind of mantra lasting f.e. 7 or maybe even 9 minutes ?
The WHITE ALBUM 50th Anniversary is wrong in many places, maybe apart from the two original discs remixed - only when I consider the much better sound, natural, but also with mixed emotions - Birthday remix with voices now compressed to the centre - the fun was in the voices on the sides, in the speakers. It is cheating fans and drawing money from our pockets - there should be an additional disc (nr3) including final remixex/mixes of Hey Jude, Inner Light, Not Guilty, What's the New Mary Jane, Lady Madonna, Revolution (single ver), full fast version of Helter Skelter leading to Ringo's shouting "I have blisters on my fingers," also could probably include You Know My Name since recording sessions span 1967 - 69, also Hey Bulldog (recorded with Lady Madonna) - like on Sgt. Pepper's 50th - there are final mixes of Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane, the session discs could include two/three versions of Sexy Sadie, Not Guilty, and others, showing evolution of the songs, and not the same as on the Anthology series (including the same versions as on Anthology is really not fair), also are we interested in instrumental versions ? - NOT in J. Lennon's voice ? And why Not Guilty is repeated from Anthology without a proper final remix - it still sounds as a session - the modern technology allows to create a final mix out of fragments, snippets, in case of Not Guilty there are around 100 takes, many probably false-starts, abandoned, also in different keys - but it needs some time and working on it. The next time they return to White Album will be in around 20 years - me dead.
Sgt. PEPPER 2017 remix - for me it's a crime to have sped up She's Leaving Home, and also - the whole colour and magic is gone with the band and other instruments squeezed to the centre now - "stereo based on mono" as they say - lunatics at the consoles !
ABBEY ROAD - sounds great BUT why Ringo has soooo long hands now ? - my speakers are circa 2.5 metres apart, so I hear drums on the right in Come Together, and suddenly the snare is now in the centre - again - insanity. Why do bootlegers have access to better stuff ? - You Never Give Me Your Money (very long version with improvisation, poor quality, but interesting (probably take 30)). Why have we lost chance to have better quality "Because" vocals only version. Why there aren't masters without strings like f.e. "Something" - would be really interesting.
TAKE THIS GUY GILES MARTIN AWAY FROM IT ! - the only professional at remixing classic albums who I really respect is Steven Wilson these days - he has done GentleGiant, JethroTull, Yes, KingCrimson, Marillion, TangerineDream - well done, good job.
I doubt if there will ever be a better sounding RUBBER SOUL album compared to the George Martin's 2009 remix.
ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP MADE AND TOLD BY GILES M.
But I buy and listen to the products - what else can I do ?
I happened to agree with you that they aren’t (McCartney/Starr) really paying attention to the newer mixes. That being said I’m happy we got the later 2015, 2017,2018,2019,2021,2022 remixes as those songs don’t need d mixing.
Just compared the ‘09 remastered HDN with the ‘23 remix. The drum beat is there in both versions as are the bongoes. Don’t know why people get so worked up over this. Really the only questionable/objectionable mixing decision in the remixes in my view is in the IATW fadeout, and even that, while I don’t love it, I don’t hate it either.
I just bought the Red set...impulse buy at Walmart. Haven't give it a listen yet. Maybe next week.
Vin is really great on beatle guitar study. Subbed for years.
You know I think you are certainly right about PAUL, RINGO, DHANI etc… are NOT going over these remixes with a fine ear…maybe YOKO’S doing it! NOT! I have only listened to these collections probably once so far with a couple exceptions..WALRUS of course does bother me somewhat…I think they really lost HARRISONS crunchy rhythm guitar…yes it is there, I compared older mixes and they lost it! So this is a fail for me , that and the ending. Other than that ..on the earlier collection I do hear and like the improved drums especially…I will listen more. Thanks.
Good review, but there's an _insane_ amount of static on your audio for some reason. It did get better towards the end though.
Anyway, I have mixed feelings about this remix.. I didn't initially plan on buying it, but got curious after hearing some reviews, so I ended up springing for the colored red & blue vinyl boxset. I didn't listen to every single song, but from what I heard, some songs sounded better, but usually I preferred the original mixes. That said, I'd recommend seeking out the incredible sounding, all analog 2014 pressings before they're totally gone and shoot way up in price. I also fear that the original mixes in general won't be available in the future, replaced by the Giles remixes, which would be tragic. It would be nice if it was easier to distinguish between the two, because if you're not a hardcore fan and the hype sticker is gone, or if you don't examine the date in the fine print on the back, you'll be hard pressed to know which is which. 👍
Yeah, I din't know what happened to my audio... I have some trouble shooting to do.
@@popgoesthe60s5250 years from now, somebody will remix this review 😅
@@markboyd9275 They will remove my quickly greying hair!
Thanks for the detailed analysis. I usually find remixes to be a way for labels to buy the same titles again with some exceptions. You reminded me of the "ping pong" sound of the early to mid 60s which seemed cool at the time but which seems gimmicky now. The opening chord of A Hard Day's Night" is one of the great one-chord openings ever (another is the Eagle's Take It Easy) and i agree, should not be messed with. The recordings first release, heard and bought by the public when the songs were new will always be the Ur-text and rightly so - all remixes are secondary by default.
I appreciate that, John - thank you!
I believe the remixed tracks before the Rubber Soul sessions (starting with Day Tripper and We Can Work it Out) do not have the same level of instrument separation or the “power” of Ringo’s kick drum and Paul’s bass. Once we hit the Rubber Soul tracks you can feel the kick drum and the bass more prominent, which I love. I’ve been listening to the Beatles since the late ‘70’s, and these new mixes allowed me to hear bass parts that were previously buried in the mix. Norwegian Wood comes to mind immediately. I always know there was bass on the track, but I can now hear exactly what Paul was going and it is really cool. Same goes for We Van Work it Out. I would really have liked to hear John’s rhythm guitar more prominently on Day Tripper. I can now hear more of what he was doing ( especially at the end of the choruses), but I feel John’s guitar should have been more prominent; kind of like his part in the latest remix of Paperback Writer.
My ears adjust to whatever. I still haven't purchased red and blue 2023...and Im slowly backing away. I've got all the tunes already. By the way, I've got a stereo receiver that has a bunch of various presets that make any recording sound completely different. 😂
I’m not overly content with Giles Martin mixes. It’s always hit and miss with his work. I’ve decided to stay away from anything with Giles involvement. The Beatles Mono set plus George Martin’s productions are just fine enough for me.
I don't much care about preserving The Beatles work for future generations. I think their songs should only be heard in mono through a Dansette or wind up gramaphone player. If it aint a genuine American Dave Dexter Jnr mix then its not The Beatles. I'm 106 and saw them on Ed Sullivan so I know what I'm talking about.