This is a great discussion about a topic that needs to not be forgotten about. Some of this generation's biggest mistakes were made the last 3-5 years; the radical response of governments to COVID-19 and the demolishing effects they had to innocent people [not COVID, which in its own right is a concern, but the policies] is something important to discuss. As a scientist, I watched many of my colleagues just take off their scientist hat and become complete partisans, eating up anything fed to them by government officials without evidence. Courage in the academy was essentially lost, and lots, like yours truly, have not yet landed from the falling down those demonizing policies brought on [for simply trying to do my job, without jumping on the hysteria and participating in that]. Jay had a lot of courage to do what he did, including trying to defend the rights from these poor policies, often as an expert witness.
Which governments? Many counties had less than 1% of the covid deaths as the US. They had different policies. Some were more top down, some more bottom up. There were many ways to get this right.
@@sulljoh1 No country had 1% of Covid deaths relative to the US unless so poor they had no reliable way to count. Then again, no country was reliable so there is that problem.
Here in Argentina, science jumped out the window in March 2020, and all scientific thinking disappeared. Until now, no national investigation committee has been formed into what happened.
@@andy2box exactly. These institutions and the people who represent them have consistently lied and spewed misinformation from jump. I think that is hard for a lot of people to fathom, so as a coping mechanism they call others who don't trust them or expose them conspiracy theorists.
The st clara co study ; for every infection case there were 50 people walking around with antibodies. That was an important study mid 2020 that showed that the virus had been around alot longer than just jan20 . Also as Jay pointed out the mortality rate was much lower than being portrayed . As such it also showed that the relative vs absolute risk of the "vaccine" was much worse .
People should watch the Mike Wallace investigative 60 minutes story he did decades ago on the swine flu. I just watched it and it reminds me so much of the medical misconduct that occurred during COVID. People should have known better this time around.
“Pavlov formulated his findings into a general rule in which the speed of learning positively correlated with quiet isolation. The totalitarians have followed this rule. They know they can condition their political victims most quickly if they are kept in isolation. In the totalitarian technique of thought control, the same isolation applied to the individual is applied also to the groups of people. This is the reason the civilian populations of the totalitarian countries are not permitted to travel freely and are kept away from mental and political contamination. It is the reason, to, for the solitary confinement cell and the prison camp.” ― Joost A.M. Meerloo
Doctor B. is a wonderful American, scientist, and human being. He probably never imagined he'd have to face what he faced, and like most of us probably wouldn't have known how he'd react, but he faced it, and he reacted like the brave, honest person he is. Adversities can bring out the worst or the best in people. In his case, they brought out the best, and America is better for it. Thank you sir, you have all my respect.
Every member of the Hoover Institute at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California are exceptionally intelligent. The University itself is super left wing, even communist. But the Hoover Institute is quite conservative. As for Fauci, that POS never had anything to do with fighting HIV and caused immense suffering in the homosexual community. I know this because I was part of the team trying to find the cause of AIDS. My automation of PCR led to the discovery of HIV. Fauci NEVER made one intelligent decision in his life.
As a member of the Hoover Institute at University in Palo Alto, California, all of the members of that Institute are the best of the best. Stanford University itself is super liberal, even communist, so the difference between the University and the Institute couldn't be more sharply defined.
Amen. What amazes me is the number of people who still couldn't give a shit about what happened lol I'm one of the few it seems, who will NEVER forget.
@@markusbaker1161Depends which science. You do know there are two, right? Average age of death from Covid was around 82 years. Many healthy young people were at very low risk of severe disease.
Almost nobody got covid or died in Hong Kong. The city is packed and ventilation is pretty poor - but people stayed home, wore masks, and social distanced
nicaragua, Belarus, Tanzania etc didn't lockdown and didn't NPI mandate and did the best among its neighbors. asia-indo-pacific regions likely already had cross immunity. we even found cross-reactive ABs in pre-covid19 blood samples in africa. [Cross-Reactive Antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and MERS-CoV in Pre-COVID-19 Blood Samples from Sierra Leoneans] - Borrega et al. Dec 2021. if you look at s.korea in april 2020, npi compliance wasn't that high at all and yet cases dropped. 10k children worldwide died per month due to lockdown hunger. 400 million ppl worldwide pushed into poverty directly due to lockdown. According to UNICEF, the total covid deaths among young pple under 20yo across 92 countries was 16k. whereas in south asia alone 228k children under 5yo died directly due to lockdown.
How can you possibly think those policies worked and then somehow we all just went back to normal and COVID isn't an issue anymore? At some point the virus has to spread. Unless you think COVID just disappeared, somehow. OR you think COVID magically evolved to become like the cold on its own without spreading first. None of the people who supported these policies have congruent beliefs. Get vaccinated to save your neighbour, even though your neighbour is vaccinated. Ridiculous. Illogical. Unscientific. Religious.
Masks don't do anything to protect from respiratory viruses. Everything would have worked out fine if they'd done nothing at all. If you are on chemo, stay home.
A lot of good, obedient little sheep in the comment section, most of when are probably still double masked and bathing in sanitizing gel ten times a day.
We never did a lockdown, we were all put on vacation. Almost no one stayed home. I work at a dump, ruled essential worker, our numbers more than doubled. People got bored and cleaned yards and traveled to the dump,and took vacations. I went to Mammoth and the restaurants had record profits. RV sales skyrocketed. Most peeps didn't truly LOCKDOWN.
You’re one of the affluent middle class or wealthy. Here’s what most of us went through; I lost my business, home horse and job. I nearly lost my life driving home without headlights ( couldn’t afford them trying to live on $240 per week), after a job interview that lasted too late. Hundreds of millions lost their lives through poverty. I have been homeless since the lockdown, despite working 6 days a week. At my age , it’s unlikely I will ever recover or live in a real home.
@@gertrudewest4535why didn’t get 600 a week? Can’t you get a roommate? 15 dollars a hour full time is 2400 a month 1900 take home. Spend 800 for rent with another with 800 for a small shack.
we lockdown. don't gaslight. millions of businesses closed. hundreds of thousands of pple training to for license jobs (like trucking) couldn't find jobs as supply chain destruction reduced the need of those workers. we printed $6 trillion. world wide, lockdown pushed 400 million pple into poverty. 10k children died due to lockdown hunger. stop gaslighting.
Covid-19 exposed how orthodox Michael Shermer really is while claiming to be a skeptic. It has taken Shermer nearly 4 years to invite Jay Bhattacharya to the podcast, while he had quite a few orthodox covid scientists during this time.
What did your studies on the virus conclude, whilst you examined it through a microscope, for all those months you were bunkered down during lockdown. Looking forward to your paper and truly believe that you will turn the tide against the lockdown sheep who are waiting to be taken over by the US govt, The truth....is out there . Thank you for your work btw
Michael, you fell foul to the Monday Morning Quarter Back bias here over an over. People are pretty dumb or they are not, make up your mind. You use this argument to make fun of people following public health advice and then say the opposite when it suits. Mistakes were made but you present this man like he's been on point about everything. Sometimes you have to err on the side of caution when it comes to public policy advice when there are unknowns. You above all should know this.
There's a difference between erring on the side of caution and doing things just for the sake of doing them though. Especially when those things you did had very little basis in science. Especially when those things impeded the education of children, stopped people from making a living, and got people killed in certain instances.
Paul offit was offered the opportunity to do the Lex Fridman podcast with RFK Jr and refused because he said you can't debate him, so it seems a little strange that Michael Shermer is making it out like RFK jr doesn't want to engage with Paul Offit. Sceptical of the sceptic in this situation!
I'm not getting much from this conversation. Did health experts try their best and make basically good choices with the info they had or not? This is just Monday morning quarterbacking
@@sulljoh1 it's Monday morning quarterbacking because Fauci and his underlings wouldn't have it any other way. They stifled dialogue and controlled information.
@@sulljoh1why are you not getting anything from it though? He literally explains where they went wrong and where their policies failed. Did you even watch the video? Or are you just predisposed to defending the powers that be? Or are you so biased that you dismissed him as a kook? You're just throwing around overused cliches. BTW, he was doing this in the midst of covid, it was just that him and anyone else that dissented were silenced. So, unfortunately "Monday morning quarterbacking " as you put it is the only option.
The closest genetic match for SARS CoV-2 is a strain RaTG13. It is 96% related. With a genome of 30,000 nucleotides it would require 1200 mutations. We all experienced the evolution of this virus, from delta, omicron etc. and there were only a handful of mutations required for a new strain to emerge. 1200 mutations would render the virus unrecognizable.
SARS CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 has 30,000 nucleotides, large molecules strung together in a certain order. Like words in a sentence, any change in that order changes the meaning. In the virus, these changes can result in a new strain of the virus that is more deadly, more transmissible or render it unable to survive at all. The closest bat virus , the reservoir of the Coronavirus family, found to date is 94% similar to SARS CoV-2. So I’m saying that if you take a 30,000 word essay and change 1200 words randomly it will make little sense. The average change of Delta, Omicron and the other variants that emerged was 7. Viruses can’t be built like this.
Explain? What does it tell us.? Who is 'us' and what effect does it have....... on anything imparticular? You mention' Pentagon Tube'. So assume you mean the Pentagon controls RUclips. Go into more depth on this subject! How does the US govt control RUclips? Analysis please! And who controls you? Should be trust what you say, or indeed your uuuuh ...... conclusions?
Did we know at what tissue temperature did SARS COV2 better replicate ? Why ? Because german virologist Christian Drosten indicate that to infect tissue with SARS COV2 must decrease incubator temperature to 34 -35C Why ?
If SARS COV2 better infect tissue at low temperature, higher mucoseal respiratory temperature protect against Covid19. But how can maintain higher mucouseal respiratory temperature If air temperature decrease or If thermogenesis was weakened by different causes (low thyroid function,low muscular tonus,...)? Maybe,, mask wearing,, not only stop droplets but also maintain higher mucoseal respiratory temperature?
This would have been a much better video if both sides were represented. It is easy to look back with 20 20 vision and criticize the actions of the goverment health experts. This would have been a much better discussion if we had more than one opinion.
We all said these things at the time, but we were called conspiracy theorists. Even if you mentioned the lab leak you were a crazy far right conspiracy theorist, even though that should have been the logical origin to anybody. The same town they worked on the same virus that caused the pandemic, that one hll of a coincidence otherwise. Then you had the censoring of anybody who claimed that, you don’t censor lies but the truth because it’s inconvenient.
His point is that this information was known from the beginning and health experts such as himself were censored. Jay and his colleagues were prominently against the lockdowns from early 2020. The other side has had a voice for the past 4 years.
Strictly speaking true, but generally the media has given the "other" side much more space, so globally, scientists like Bhattacharya are underrepresented
I would like to know the answer, from a molecular biologist, to this question. While looking at the Covid-19 virus’ under an electron microscope, isn’t it possible to see that the furin cleavage site was spliced in; manipulated manually?
Nope, furin cleavage sites are not uncommon, plus the only virus close to covid found in Any lab is 1300 base pairs different. Manipulating 1300 base pairs would take 20 years plus and how would you know which to change? Plus 2 different lineages of Covidv19 found at Market. About 99.9% chance Zoontic!
No one has ever isolated any virus of any type. No one has ever seen a virus of any type, whether using an electronic microscope or anything else. The red spikey ball is an artists impression. Virology has always been based on theory. Originally, DNA was all theory but has now been scientifically proven. Germs also. So no, the furin cleavage site is not see able on a virus also not see able. You are now one of the few to be able to rethink the virus conundrum. If you are a medical professional, you are required to accept the current virus dogma, much like religions use dogma. You can still be a true believer but can understand there are restrictions.
That wouldn't work : The 12 nucleotides sequence would have been added by adding it into cells and then waiting that it enters the virus genetic code by recombination at the right place. Then you serial pass with it. It would look perfectly normal because you let the host cell machinery do the work.
"No-see-um edits" are the latest in genetic engineering. They can change the RNA and it wouldn't show. The virus itself is constructed by cellular machinery so wouldn't be the place to see the edit.
the risk of myoc is not between [cvd] vs [vcx]. it's between [cvd] vs [vcx + cvd] because vcx does not stop infection. it's added risk. There are 40 billion LNPs per shot. 1000 mRNAs per LNP. That's 40 trillion mRNAs. it's a choice between: a) 40 trillion RNAse resistant mRNAs, injected and distributed in seconds, bypassing mucosal defense and this is repeated at least 4x shots while inducing practically no nasal t-cell and s-igA. or b) Virus with 1-100 Billion mRNAs with peak distribution slowly escalating for a week, not immediate seconds, and giving you natural (broad, not single protein) immunity with nasal t-cell and s-igA. it's funny how TWV brought Paul Offit to lie literally about dna contamination discovery. why wouldn't TWV bring Kevin Mckernan who first discovered it? why does TWV avoid direct source? but then that's professor V's character, right? avoid valid dissents to obfuscate truth. and he sits behind the curtain letting loose his student dogs Angela Rasmussen and Peter Hotez to go after any dissents, whether lab leak or cvd policy in general. has TWV denounced Hotez for saying they need to use police and fbi to spy and go after dissents?
What about aliens bringing it from another planet, after engineering it to not have an effect on the lizard people? I have some doubts about the validity of that theory. I would even put a limb out, at a push, and suggest that maybe it could be a conspiracy.
The amount of BS in this video could fertilize every farm in the US for 10 years. It seems that neither of these people heard of the most fundamental debate in virology which is germ theory vs terrain theory.
“Bayesean”. I have no idea what that means or why Mr Shermer says it so often but I feel I will be just fine if I don’t look it up in the dictionary. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. And don’t just say…”you’re wrong” 🙄
It's to do with statistics and you can continue to live your whole life not knowing this. I'd put it in the same box as "second order recurrence relations". You don't know what those are either and can be happy in your ignorance and leave it to the maths nerds like me.
@@benchapple1583 You’re probably right. Wouldn’t it be funny if this Bayesean stuff was something that all of us did everyday, almost intuitively? We just didn’t put the fancy name to it. Enjoy your stats 👍
True, but it goes the other way too: Those, with background in virology are not necessarily qualified to make public health policy / economical decisions and during covid they were given a "carte blanche" to do it
Michael, Michael, Michael. You are amazing and I love your work. But where was the push back here? To speak with Bhattacharya for 90 mins and not utter the words “hindsight bias” before and after each sentence, is a massive failing. The fact that he doesn’t offer hindsight bias disclaimers preceding every outrageous claim he makes, is everything you need to know about him. No serious academic scientist, would speak the way he speaks without such disclaimers at every turn. And where is the conversation about how public policy actually works in an emergency when the data is either non-existent, unverified, or contradicting the data that came an hour earlier?? No one envies the position Fauci and the entire public health policy apparatus was in and Jay would have killed millions had he been in Fauci’s seat at the time. Seriously disappointed in the lack of push back you showed here Michael. Given the title of this episode, where was the critical thinking in the analysis of what Jay has been saying??
I'm not sure about that. I found him to be pretty reasonable. In an era of tyrants and sociopaths, we need anti authority types to speak up, otherwise, tyrants will run amok. Fauci is a different story. He gets propped up by the media as this messiah like figure, but he's anything but. By his own admission via the recent testimony before congress, the masks, lockdowns, and mandates were ordered with very little scientific evidence behind them. Him and his underlings did everything they could to squash debate. They had very little information because they wanted it that way. To say the things he said with so much confidence and certainty while rejecting dialogue is just plain crazy. It's definitely not scientific and reeks of narcissism. Those sound like traits of a tyrant to me. These actions had severe implications, as they impeded the education of children, wrecked the careers of people, etc.
we had data from china in dec 2019. we had data from the cruise ship. it's not hindsight bias. you zero-covidians just censored, ignored data, and threw out the original pandemic policy (vertical interdiction / targeted lockdown). on top of that, why would you censor dissents esp when it's emergency? so stop being disingenuous, you guys censored during emergency, and thereby ignored data we already had. Nicaragua, Belarus, Tanzania etc, didn't lockdown, didn't npi mandate, but did very well. Peru lockdown the harshest, yet had the worst case and death rates. 10k children worldwide died per month due to lockdown hunger. 400 million ppl worldwide pushed into poverty directly due to lockdown. According to UNICEF, the total covid deaths among young pple under 20yo across 92 countries was 16k. whereas in south asia alone 228k children under 5yo died directly due to lockdown. That's on you. not on Jay. we followed YOUR WAY and the result is more damage by collateral than the virus. stop gaslighting, you fascist authoritarian.
Sigh. He calls on people to be more critical, yet he falls for all thr conspiracy crap himself. The barrington dec was a hodge podge of half baked ideas
@@WNH3If by official you mean the White House/Trump response, I agree. The CDC gave solid advice based on what was known at the time. That advice changed as more was learned. They did poorly though in communication.
@@karagi101bad at communicating is an understatement… I mean they really said that claiming it came from a lab was racist to Chinese people and not that it came from them eating disgusting animals at the wet market 🤦♂️ which one sounds worse… Watch “Peter Hotez - v expert” from Matt.
@@PittbuII I think you mean “miscommunicating”. Trump started calling it and kept calling it The Chinese Virus. Why? No scientist calked it that. It had a proper name. Viruses arise all over the world, even in the US. Where did AIDS take off from? Did they call it The US Virus? Whether or not it came from a wet market or a lab was immaterial to how to deal with it. The jury is still out on that question and we may never know for sure. Obviously, it is important to know the precise origin to help prevent future outbreaks. We can tighten security at labs or eliminate those aspects of wet markets that are dangerous. Better yet, we can do both.
Peter Hotez versus expert so watch expert versus expert? Cause Hotez is an Expert in viruses unlike this guy who's lack of humility and all knowingness really shines in the interview.
Sad to see Jay go this far down the rabbit hole on covid. Early on in the pandemic he seemed like one of the more reasonable voices a bit like John Ioannidis etc
@@noshow22 well, for starters every previous pandemic has been a natural/animal spillover event. So, in order to credibly claim that this is the first man-made pandemic you'd need to clear a very high bar (of proof/evidence) to make a convincing argument for the first time in history that this has occurred... convincingly disproving a natural/animal spillover event (this hasn't been done) or convincingly proving a man-made scenario (either accidental or intentional). Bayesian reasoning requires that our priors be a belief in natural spillover and it should take a lot of high quality evidence to challenge this belief. That evidence has not been provided.
This guy’s argument is so disingenuous. Armchair quarterbacking after the fact. No one, including the scientists knew for sure what the danger would be. This guy coming out with contrary advice of ‘let her rip’ only added to the confusion and fed the mistrust.
@@healthdoc Did you even watch the video? Or just making an ignorant comment because you're predisposed to defending the powers that be? The Great Barrington Declaration came out in the middle of covid, but Jay and others who dissented were smeared as conspiracy theorists. Quit being a company shill.
This guy’s reasoning is so muddled. Masks do offer protection just like his example of bicycle helmets. He agrees to wearing a helmet but says a mask was worthless. He’s wrong. Both offer protection in a non-perfect way.
@@jwilson2500 this is just false. There is ample evidence that proper masking reduces transmission of pathogens from one person to others. Amazing that practitioners have, for more than a century, demonstrated that infections are reduced by practicing basic hygiene., but now every armchair expert suddenly knows better. Stay in your lane.
The Great Barrington Declaration was NOT a "non-nuanced and biased right wing proclamation". Did you even read the "rhinf"? It's literally 8 paragraphs of common sense. Sheesh.
If it looks like a cover up to you, wirhout wxpertise in the area, you aren’t qualified to tell if ir is a cover up. The those in the know, their behaviour looked harmless
Excellent discussion. I find Jay Battlechariot to be a voice of reason and measured skepticism
This is a great discussion about a topic that needs to not be forgotten about. Some of this generation's biggest mistakes were made the last 3-5 years; the radical response of governments to COVID-19 and the demolishing effects they had to innocent people [not COVID, which in its own right is a concern, but the policies] is something important to discuss. As a scientist, I watched many of my colleagues just take off their scientist hat and become complete partisans, eating up anything fed to them by government officials without evidence. Courage in the academy was essentially lost, and lots, like yours truly, have not yet landed from the falling down those demonizing policies brought on [for simply trying to do my job, without jumping on the hysteria and participating in that]. Jay had a lot of courage to do what he did, including trying to defend the rights from these poor policies, often as an expert witness.
What kind of scientist are you?
@@markusbaker1161 He is a Chemist.
@@CHURINDOK how do you know?
Which governments? Many counties had less than 1% of the covid deaths as the US. They had different policies. Some were more top down, some more bottom up. There were many ways to get this right.
@@sulljoh1 No country had 1% of Covid deaths relative to the US unless so poor they had no reliable way to count. Then again, no country was reliable so there is that problem.
Here in Argentina, science jumped out the window in March 2020, and all scientific thinking disappeared. Until now, no national investigation committee has been formed into what happened.
Jumped out the window, or flew out like a bat form a foreign cave?
The only reason conspiracy theories exist at all is because we always find out the people we put our trust in keep telling us lies or half truths.
@@andy2box exactly. These institutions and the people who represent them have consistently lied and spewed misinformation from jump. I think that is hard for a lot of people to fathom, so as a coping mechanism they call others who don't trust them or expose them conspiracy theorists.
The Conspiracy theory label is just a way for weak minded people to cope with inconvenient truths.
@@andy2box exactly. It doesn't help that they're condescending and say these things with so much confidence.
The st clara co study ; for every infection case there were 50 people walking around with antibodies. That was an important study mid 2020 that showed that the virus had been around alot longer than just jan20 . Also as Jay pointed out the mortality rate was much lower than being portrayed . As such it also showed that the relative vs absolute risk of the "vaccine" was much worse .
People should watch the Mike Wallace investigative 60 minutes story he did decades ago on the swine flu. I just watched it and it reminds me so much of the medical misconduct that occurred during COVID. People should have known better this time around.
Prime Minister Trudeau was a perfect example of a problem .
Jabba the nut
Thank you once again, Dr. Jay. Soon, hopefully most will finally hear and know they were purposely deluded.
“Pavlov formulated his findings into a general rule in which the speed of learning positively correlated with quiet isolation. The totalitarians have followed this rule. They know they can condition their political victims most quickly if they are kept in isolation. In the totalitarian technique of thought control, the same isolation applied to the individual is applied also to the groups of people. This is the reason the civilian populations of the totalitarian countries are not permitted to travel freely and are kept away from mental and political contamination. It is the reason, to, for the solitary confinement cell and the prison camp.”
― Joost A.M. Meerloo
Doctor B. is a wonderful American, scientist, and human being. He probably never imagined he'd have to face what he faced, and like most of us probably wouldn't have known how he'd react, but he faced it, and he reacted like the brave, honest person he is. Adversities can bring out the worst or the best in people. In his case, they brought out the best, and America is better for it. Thank you sir, you have all my respect.
Every member of the Hoover Institute at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California are exceptionally intelligent. The University itself is super left wing, even communist. But the Hoover Institute is quite conservative. As for Fauci, that POS never had anything to do with fighting HIV and caused immense suffering in the homosexual community. I know this because I was part of the team trying to find the cause of AIDS. My automation of PCR led to the discovery of HIV. Fauci NEVER made one intelligent decision in his life.
As a member of the Hoover Institute at University in Palo Alto, California, all of the members of that Institute are the best of the best. Stanford University itself is super liberal, even communist, so the difference between the University and the Institute couldn't be more sharply defined.
Agree 100%. Jay is a gem!
disgusting period of time, frightening people and forcing people into taking a medical procedure they did not need nor wanted.
What was disgusting was the amount of people who think they’re smarter than science and pretend they’re immune to Covid 19 🤓
Amen. What amazes me is the number of people who still couldn't give a shit about what happened lol
I'm one of the few it seems, who will NEVER forget.
@@MasterMiller420 Most people live in a pseudo-dream state largely fostered by the mainstream media
@@markusbaker1161Depends which science. You do know there are two, right? Average age of death from Covid was around 82 years. Many healthy young people were at very low risk of severe disease.
@@MasterMiller420 We'll never see a formal apology or recognition because too many people were in on it.
Almost nobody got covid or died in Hong Kong.
The city is packed and ventilation is pretty poor - but people stayed home, wore masks, and social distanced
nicaragua, Belarus, Tanzania etc didn't lockdown and didn't NPI mandate and did the best among its neighbors.
asia-indo-pacific regions likely already had cross immunity. we even found cross-reactive ABs in pre-covid19 blood samples in africa. [Cross-Reactive Antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and MERS-CoV in Pre-COVID-19 Blood Samples from Sierra Leoneans] - Borrega et al. Dec 2021.
if you look at s.korea in april 2020, npi compliance wasn't that high at all and yet cases dropped.
10k children worldwide died per month due to lockdown hunger.
400 million ppl worldwide pushed into poverty directly due to lockdown.
According to UNICEF, the total covid deaths among young pple under 20yo across 92 countries was 16k. whereas in south asia alone 228k children under 5yo died directly due to lockdown.
How can you possibly think those policies worked and then somehow we all just went back to normal and COVID isn't an issue anymore?
At some point the virus has to spread. Unless you think COVID just disappeared, somehow. OR you think COVID magically evolved to become like the cold on its own without spreading first.
None of the people who supported these policies have congruent beliefs. Get vaccinated to save your neighbour, even though your neighbour is vaccinated. Ridiculous. Illogical. Unscientific. Religious.
Masks don't do anything to protect from respiratory viruses. Everything would have worked out fine if they'd done nothing at all. If you are on chemo, stay home.
A lot of good, obedient little sheep in the comment section, most of when are probably still double masked and bathing in sanitizing gel ten times a day.
Bots or human NPCs?
“Peter hotez - vaccine expert” a RUclips video worth watching.
😂😂😂😂
Has Michael Shermer come to his senses about covid?
Great discussion, insight and information. Thank you both!!
We never did a lockdown, we were all put on vacation. Almost no one stayed home. I work at a dump, ruled essential worker, our numbers more than doubled. People got bored and cleaned yards and traveled to the dump,and took vacations. I went to Mammoth and the restaurants had record profits. RV sales skyrocketed. Most peeps didn't truly LOCKDOWN.
You’re one of the affluent middle class or wealthy.
Here’s what most of us went through; I lost my business, home horse and job. I nearly lost my life driving home without headlights ( couldn’t afford them trying to live on $240 per week), after a job interview that lasted too late.
Hundreds of millions lost their lives through poverty. I have been homeless since the lockdown, despite working 6 days a week. At my age , it’s unlikely I will ever recover or live in a real home.
@@gertrudewest4535why didn’t get 600 a week? Can’t you get a roommate? 15 dollars a hour full time is 2400 a month 1900 take home. Spend 800 for rent with another with 800 for a small shack.
@@gertrudewest4535also, they allowed people to forgo mortgage payment during pandemic, so hard to believe this happened during those 3 years.
Home fried company man cooking
we lockdown. don't gaslight. millions of businesses closed. hundreds of thousands of pple training to for license jobs (like trucking) couldn't find jobs as supply chain destruction reduced the need of those workers.
we printed $6 trillion.
world wide, lockdown pushed 400 million pple into poverty. 10k children died due to lockdown hunger.
stop gaslighting.
Good discussion keep up the pressure. Hopefully power will change in November.
Covid-19 exposed how orthodox Michael Shermer really is while claiming to be a skeptic. It has taken Shermer nearly 4 years to invite Jay Bhattacharya to the podcast, while he had quite a few orthodox covid scientists during this time.
But he isn't questioning Bhattacharya's narrative or asking foe evidence. He is not much better than Joe Rogan
What did your studies on the virus conclude, whilst you examined it through a microscope, for all those months you were bunkered down during lockdown. Looking forward to your paper and truly believe that you will turn the tide against the lockdown sheep who are waiting to be taken over by the US govt, The truth....is out there . Thank you for your work btw
Great discussion. Thank you!
Michael, you fell foul to the Monday Morning Quarter Back bias here over an over. People are pretty dumb or they are not, make up your mind. You use this argument to make fun of people following public health advice and then say the opposite when it suits. Mistakes were made but you present this man like he's been on point about everything. Sometimes you have to err on the side of caution when it comes to public policy advice when there are unknowns. You above all should know this.
@@peznino1 What was the Doctor wrong about? I'm interested. You didn't post any of those things. Can you do that?
There's a difference between erring on the side of caution and doing things just for the sake of doing them though. Especially when those things you did had very little basis in science. Especially when those things impeded the education of children, stopped people from making a living, and got people killed in certain instances.
@@noshow22 learn what it means to 'err on the side of caution'.
@@peznino1 ok, so nitpick my spelling error instead of arguing my point. You still haven't argued the other commenter's point either. We are waiting.
@@TinFoilBratTV he can't and he won't because he's just a shill predisposed to defending his beloved establishment.
Paul offit was offered the opportunity to do the Lex Fridman podcast with RFK Jr and refused because he said you can't debate him, so it seems a little strange that Michael Shermer is making it out like RFK jr doesn't want to engage with Paul Offit. Sceptical of the sceptic in this situation!
I'm not getting much from this conversation.
Did health experts try their best and make basically good choices with the info they had or not?
This is just Monday morning quarterbacking
Not
Spoken like a true company man.
@@noshow22 I want to know what's true and this conversation doesn't help
@@sulljoh1 it's Monday morning quarterbacking because Fauci and his underlings wouldn't have it any other way. They stifled dialogue and controlled information.
@@sulljoh1why are you not getting anything from it though? He literally explains where they went wrong and where their policies failed. Did you even watch the video? Or are you just predisposed to defending the powers that be? Or are you so biased that you dismissed him as a kook? You're just throwing around overused cliches.
BTW, he was doing this in the midst of covid, it was just that him and anyone else that dissented were silenced. So, unfortunately "Monday morning quarterbacking " as you put it is the only option.
On the flipside I now work from home!
The closest genetic match for SARS CoV-2 is a strain RaTG13. It is 96% related. With a genome of 30,000 nucleotides it would require 1200 mutations. We all experienced the evolution of this virus, from delta, omicron etc. and there were only a handful of mutations required for a new strain to emerge. 1200 mutations would render the virus unrecognizable.
Can I ask What you mean ?
SARS CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 has 30,000 nucleotides, large molecules strung together in a certain order. Like words in a sentence, any change in that order changes the meaning. In the virus, these changes can result in a new strain of the virus that is more deadly, more transmissible or render it unable to survive at all. The closest bat virus , the reservoir of the Coronavirus family, found to date is 94% similar to SARS CoV-2. So I’m saying that if you take a 30,000 word essay and change 1200 words randomly it will make little sense. The average change of Delta, Omicron and the other variants that emerged was 7. Viruses can’t be built like this.
I've really loved following Michael Shermer for the last 30 years.
Me to. For about 5 years. Common sense. That is it
@@simonrae3048 He didnt have common sense when he spoke about Coiid in 2020 and 2021
aaahhh smart people talking clear , well structured sentences.... :-)
Your still in print, and still monetized on PentagonTube, this tells us everything
Explain? What does it tell us.? Who is 'us' and what effect does it have....... on anything imparticular? You mention' Pentagon Tube'. So assume you mean the Pentagon controls RUclips. Go into more depth on this subject! How does the US govt control RUclips? Analysis please!
And who controls you? Should be trust what you say, or indeed your uuuuh ...... conclusions?
Did we know at what tissue temperature did SARS COV2 better replicate ?
Why ?
Because german virologist Christian Drosten indicate that to infect tissue with SARS COV2 must decrease incubator temperature to 34 -35C
Why ?
What is the risk If ,,restrictive,, temperature increase 1 degree C or 3degreeC? after retromutation and recombinations.
Maybe virulence increase ?
If SARS COV2 better infect tissue at low temperature, higher mucoseal respiratory temperature protect against Covid19.
But how can maintain higher mucouseal respiratory temperature If air temperature decrease or If thermogenesis was weakened by different causes (low thyroid function,low muscular tonus,...)?
Maybe,, mask wearing,, not only stop droplets but also maintain higher mucoseal respiratory temperature?
This would have been a much better video if both sides were represented. It is easy to look back with 20 20 vision and criticize the actions of the goverment health experts. This would have been a much better discussion if we had more than one opinion.
wrong
We all said these things at the time, but we were called conspiracy theorists.
Even if you mentioned the lab leak you were a crazy far right conspiracy theorist, even though that should have been the logical origin to anybody.
The same town they worked on the same virus that caused the pandemic, that one hll of a coincidence otherwise.
Then you had the censoring of anybody who claimed that, you don’t censor lies but the truth because it’s inconvenient.
His point is that this information was known from the beginning and health experts such as himself were censored. Jay and his colleagues were prominently against the lockdowns from early 2020. The other side has had a voice for the past 4 years.
I believe the Barrington declaration came out at the time policies were being formulated and it was not just sidelined but demonised.
Strictly speaking true, but generally the media has given the "other" side much more space, so globally, scientists like Bhattacharya are underrepresented
I would like to know the answer, from a molecular biologist, to this question. While looking at the Covid-19 virus’ under an electron microscope, isn’t it possible to see that the furin cleavage site was spliced in; manipulated manually?
Nope, furin cleavage sites are not uncommon, plus the only virus close to covid found in Any lab is 1300 base pairs different. Manipulating 1300 base pairs would take 20 years plus and how would you know which to change? Plus 2 different lineages of Covidv19 found at Market. About 99.9% chance Zoontic!
No one has ever isolated any virus of any type. No one has ever seen a virus of any type, whether using an electronic microscope or anything else. The red spikey ball is an artists impression. Virology has always been based on theory. Originally, DNA was all theory but has now been scientifically proven. Germs also. So no, the furin cleavage site is not see able on a virus also not see able. You are now one of the few to be able to rethink the virus conundrum. If you are a medical professional, you are required to accept the current virus dogma, much like religions use dogma. You can still be a true believer but can understand there are restrictions.
That wouldn't work : The 12 nucleotides sequence would have been added by adding it into cells and then waiting that it enters the virus genetic code by recombination at the right place. Then you serial pass with it. It would look perfectly normal because you let the host cell machinery do the work.
"No-see-um edits" are the latest in genetic engineering. They can change the RNA and it wouldn't show.
The virus itself is constructed by cellular machinery so wouldn't be the place to see the edit.
More stupid GOOGLE ads.
how lovely. youtube shadowbanning comments, especially replies, really hard.
sort by "newest first" for those who want to read.
According to doctors on the This Week in Virology podcast the rates of myocarditis were higher in unvaccinated people than vaccinated ones.
the risk of myoc is not between [cvd] vs [vcx].
it's between [cvd] vs [vcx + cvd] because vcx does not stop infection. it's added risk.
There are 40 billion LNPs per shot. 1000 mRNAs per LNP. That's 40 trillion mRNAs.
it's a choice between:
a) 40 trillion RNAse resistant mRNAs, injected and distributed in seconds, bypassing mucosal defense and this is repeated at least 4x shots while inducing practically no nasal t-cell and s-igA.
or b) Virus with 1-100 Billion mRNAs with peak distribution slowly escalating for a week, not immediate seconds, and giving you natural (broad, not single protein) immunity with nasal t-cell and s-igA.
it's funny how TWV brought Paul Offit to lie literally about dna contamination discovery.
why wouldn't TWV bring Kevin Mckernan who first discovered it? why does TWV avoid direct source?
but then that's professor V's character, right? avoid valid dissents to obfuscate truth. and he sits behind the curtain letting loose his student dogs Angela Rasmussen and Peter Hotez to go after any dissents, whether lab leak or cvd policy in general. has TWV denounced Hotez for saying they need to use police and fbi to spy and go after dissents?
I don’t know any conspiracy about COVID.
What about aliens bringing it from another planet, after engineering it to not have an effect on the lizard people?
I have some doubts about the validity of that theory.
I would even put a limb out, at a push, and suggest that maybe it could be a conspiracy.
Thank you
1:23:13 More YTers will be saying, "I used to believe in gun control, but...."
The amount of BS in this video could fertilize every farm in the US for 10 years. It seems that neither of these people heard of the most fundamental debate in virology which is germ theory vs terrain theory.
My story to talk.
See this 🆔 one song (busso ne bo busso ne >mobile _COVID & vaccine
“Bayesean”. I have no idea what that means or why Mr Shermer says it so often but I feel I will be just fine if I don’t look it up in the dictionary.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
And don’t just say…”you’re wrong” 🙄
you'll be fine
It's to do with statistics and you can continue to live your whole life not knowing this. I'd put it in the same box as "second order recurrence relations". You don't know what those are either and can be happy in your ignorance and leave it to the maths nerds like me.
@@benchapple1583 You’re probably right.
Wouldn’t it be funny if this Bayesean stuff was something that all of us did everyday, almost intuitively? We just didn’t put the fancy name to it.
Enjoy your stats 👍
@@vanessa1569 I'm not a statistician but I am an amateur mathematician hence the weird reference to second order recurrence relations.
@@benchapple1583 I’m no good at any of it. I feel my way around in the dark like a newborn kitten. Seriously, numbers, mathematics…ptooey 🤣
Monday morning quarterback .
Bots say this, as though he wasn't saying this four years ago.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
His bqck ground on health policy and econ doesn’t mean he’s qualified to be a virologist
ruclips.net/video/Sj6-QDVYbv8/видео.htmlsi=2vwbCnvvETyghB0j
But he’s qualified to talk about public health policy, right?
Argument from authority isn’t a good one
True, but it goes the other way too: Those, with background in virology are not necessarily qualified to make public health policy / economical decisions and during covid they were given a "carte blanche" to do it
He’s an epidemiologist and has a doctorate degree in international economics. He’s one of the most respected man in his field.
Michael, Michael, Michael. You are amazing and I love your work. But where was the push back here? To speak with Bhattacharya for 90 mins and not utter the words “hindsight bias” before and after each sentence, is a massive failing. The fact that he doesn’t offer hindsight bias disclaimers preceding every outrageous claim he makes, is everything you need to know about him. No serious academic scientist, would speak the way he speaks without such disclaimers at every turn. And where is the conversation about how public policy actually works in an emergency when the data is either non-existent, unverified, or contradicting the data that came an hour earlier?? No one envies the position Fauci and the entire public health policy apparatus was in and Jay would have killed millions had he been in Fauci’s seat at the time. Seriously disappointed in the lack of push back you showed here Michael. Given the title of this episode, where was the critical thinking in the analysis of what Jay has been saying??
I'm not sure about that. I found him to be pretty reasonable. In an era of tyrants and sociopaths, we need anti authority types to speak up, otherwise, tyrants will run amok.
Fauci is a different story. He gets propped up by the media as this messiah like figure, but he's anything but. By his own admission via the recent testimony before congress, the masks, lockdowns, and mandates were ordered with very little scientific evidence behind them. Him and his underlings did everything they could to squash debate. They had very little information because they wanted it that way. To say the things he said with so much confidence and certainty while rejecting dialogue is just plain crazy. It's definitely not scientific and reeks of narcissism. Those sound like traits of a tyrant to me. These actions had severe implications, as they impeded the education of children, wrecked the careers of people, etc.
we had data from china in dec 2019. we had data from the cruise ship.
it's not hindsight bias. you zero-covidians just censored, ignored data, and threw out the original pandemic policy (vertical interdiction / targeted lockdown).
on top of that, why would you censor dissents esp when it's emergency?
so stop being disingenuous, you guys censored during emergency, and thereby ignored data we already had.
Nicaragua, Belarus, Tanzania etc, didn't lockdown, didn't npi mandate, but did very well.
Peru lockdown the harshest, yet had the worst case and death rates.
10k children worldwide died per month due to lockdown hunger.
400 million ppl worldwide pushed into poverty directly due to lockdown.
According to UNICEF, the total covid deaths among young pple under 20yo across 92 countries was 16k. whereas in south asia alone 228k children under 5yo died directly due to lockdown.
That's on you. not on Jay. we followed YOUR WAY and the result is more damage by collateral than the virus. stop gaslighting, you fascist authoritarian.
All this was said in the Great Barrington Declaration. This is new to YOU, the Dr been saying this for years.
Sigh. He calls on people to be more critical, yet he falls for all thr conspiracy crap himself. The barrington dec was a hodge podge of half baked ideas
"A hodge podge of half baked ideas" is a fair description of the official response to COVID as well.
@@WNH3If by official you mean the White House/Trump response, I agree.
The CDC gave solid advice based on what was known at the time. That advice changed as more was learned.
They did poorly though in communication.
@@karagi101bad at communicating is an understatement… I mean they really said that claiming it came from a lab was racist to Chinese people and not that it came from them eating disgusting animals at the wet market 🤦♂️ which one sounds worse…
Watch “Peter Hotez - v expert” from Matt.
@@PittbuII I think you mean “miscommunicating”.
Trump started calling it and kept calling it The Chinese Virus. Why? No scientist calked it that. It had a proper name.
Viruses arise all over the world, even in the US. Where did AIDS take off from? Did they call it The US Virus?
Whether or not it came from a wet market or a lab was immaterial to how to deal with it. The jury is still out on that question and we may never know for sure.
Obviously, it is important to know the precise origin to help prevent future outbreaks.
We can tighten security at labs or eliminate those aspects of wet markets that are dangerous.
Better yet, we can do both.
Peter Hotez versus expert so watch expert versus expert? Cause Hotez is an Expert in viruses unlike this guy who's lack of humility and all knowingness really shines in the interview.
Sad to see Jay go this far down the rabbit hole on covid. Early on in the pandemic he seemed like one of the more reasonable voices a bit like John Ioannidis etc
What was he wrong about?
@PittbuII origins of covid and related claims about cover-ups. More broadly, he's a contrarian on everything re: covid rather than a rational skeptic.
You think this is the first bio weapon they released?
@@stephenmcgrail7661still can't prove natural origin either. So is he really wrong or hasn't been proven right yet?
@@noshow22 well, for starters every previous pandemic has been a natural/animal spillover event. So, in order to credibly claim that this is the first man-made pandemic you'd need to clear a very high bar (of proof/evidence) to make a convincing argument for the first time in history that this has occurred... convincingly disproving a natural/animal spillover event (this hasn't been done) or convincingly proving a man-made scenario (either accidental or intentional). Bayesian reasoning requires that our priors be a belief in natural spillover and it should take a lot of high quality evidence to challenge this belief. That evidence has not been provided.
sounds like Jay believes the yarn hes spinning
Sounds like you're a Fauci meatrider
It's hard to be dumb but we still care about you.
@@jwilson2500 Is opinion the new Religion?
This guy’s argument is so disingenuous. Armchair quarterbacking after the fact. No one, including the scientists knew for sure what the danger would be. This guy coming out with contrary advice of ‘let her rip’ only added to the confusion and fed the mistrust.
@@healthdoc Did you even watch the video? Or just making an ignorant comment because you're predisposed to defending the powers that be? The Great Barrington Declaration came out in the middle of covid, but Jay and others who dissented were smeared as conspiracy theorists. Quit being a company shill.
You didn't listen, you're just a smearbot.
This guy’s reasoning is so muddled. Masks do offer protection just like his example of bicycle helmets. He agrees to wearing a helmet but says a mask was worthless. He’s wrong. Both offer protection in a non-perfect way.
Not according to every RCT done on them.
@@jwilson2500 this is just false. There is ample evidence that proper masking reduces transmission of pathogens from one person to others. Amazing that practitioners have, for more than a century, demonstrated that infections are reduced by practicing basic hygiene., but now every armchair expert suddenly knows better. Stay in your lane.
I will say your concluding remarks were nice. But the barrington dec was none of those rhinfs. It was a non nuanced and biased right wing proclamation
What does 'right wing' even mean?
The Great Barrington Declaration was NOT a "non-nuanced and biased right wing proclamation". Did you even read the "rhinf"? It's literally 8 paragraphs of common sense. Sheesh.
wrong
What does that even mean? I don’t think you know what right wing is
this must be a bot comment...no person could be that stupid
If it looks like a cover up to you, wirhout wxpertise in the area, you aren’t qualified to tell if ir is a cover up. The those in the know, their behaviour looked harmless
Then they were in on it.
Yes yes. Classic conspiracist. Everybody is in on everyrhing. All secret. Blah blah blah
@@kban77search for “Peter hotez vaccine expert” on RUclips, a channel called Matt …. .
I keep getting censored i see
Yes what you don't understand is not true and what someone claims to be true is what you should focus on
Jay Bhattacharya is difficult to listen to. He can't string a sentence together.
I bet you believe that Biden just has a stutter
lol that batsht responses from Jay.
Fauci, is that you?
@@noshow22love its handle. SURELY this isn't a bot 😂😂😂
@@jwilson2500 bot or extremely dim-witted. Neither would really shock me.
@@jwilson2500 a bot or a total airhead. Neither would shock me.