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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Dave shows how to use reference waveforms to capture, compare and time correlate more then one signal at a time on your oscilloscope when you just can't hold all those probes at once.
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#Oscilloscope #Trick #Tutorial
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NOTE: If your trigger reference signal is slow going then that could add some jitter to your time correlation. Also any variability in say RC power on reset time constants etc. Just be wary of that if doing exact measurements.
I was thinking something like that. This works if the responses of the signals are very consistent. It looks like the timing of the "digital signal" high and low correlate to the "analog signal" RC charge and discharge curves. If they were captured at the same time they might line up perfectly. Great tip, but definitely a big "trap for young players!".
Now the trick is to remember this trick when you need it :D
just store the trick in your reference.
@@roelandriemens My references aren't so vast that I use them as I would google, so I still need to remember :D
I really admire the solution for protecting against accidentally touching the big fat capacitor and coils over in the right...
High quality mains voltage protection! Simple but functional :-)
Chinese Takeaway Protection™
Yep, that was one of my takeaways from this video.
@@EEVblog Kung Fu Condom
I had a similar idea but by using rubber sandals, standing up, and one hand in back pocket to measure the 400V diode point on a SMPS, but I was attacked in a forum for doing that... "isolation human" instead of "isolation transformer"?
You really can't beat Keysight's user interface... so much better than Rigol, etc. in my opinion
Very useful, especially for a partially disabled guy, like me, fighting shaky hands already.
2 Girls 1 Scope... Oh wait a minute!
Anyone else imagining Fran Blanche and Jeri Ellsworth checking out a classic Tektronix analog storage oscilloscope and talking about how it reminds them of "the good old days"? :)
I've never used that feature on my 1000X scope. Now I see how it could come in handy.
1:00 you need to eat more sushi Dave, practice your chopstick abilities, Asian engineers have a clear advantage here
Why not just rubber-band the probes like chopsticks? Hahaha!
Chopstick technique for the win, also comes in handy for holding soldering iron, solder and component.
1:42 ouch... poor capacitor
Tight probing may also cause problems if the ground band on the scope probe touches a live heat sink or power transistor package.
Don't ask how I know this :(
Most new scopes come with removable tip covers designed specifically to prevent this. Alternatively, wrap black tape around it.
@@bill392 I have those components and the plastic cover gets in the way.
I may need the spring clip ground for measurements so removing electrical tape is a no go.
Just use the method Dave explains here as I've been doing for 30 years.
Usefull in all my years i never considered using the reference like that. I always used it for, well a reference, to compare things in future measurments. Never thought of it as an extra pair of hands until now. Thx
As a user of a conventional analog oscilloscope I clearly can't use the method described here but it is interesting to note how analog scopes internally use the same trick. A conventional scope can only display one beam at a time so two (or more) channels are emulated by drawing a trace of one signal, then one of the other. Since both traces are using the same trigger source the correct time relationships are shown.
Smart trick.. when I need to measure several signals, I use my Sensepeek PCBite 2x SP100 Kit 4015
You are awesome Dave. Your videos are super helpful.
This is how I ruined a thermal camera trying to find minor noise issues. The probe slipped and I ended up with burnt thermal sensor. $800 loss (which already was great deal) and disappointment for a long time..Giving a big thumbs up for this video, although I do not have a scope with reference waveform memory this indeed is a very good trick that I would not have though of. Thanks Dave as ususal great stuff!
The "I'm here all week..." line, just cracked me up! :-)
I switched on my Keysight 2000-series scope to check out this feature. I hit the Analyze button and was about to be very disappointed that the feature wasn't in the menu.... until I checked the manual and saw that it has its own button labeled "Ref" (who knew, right?), located on the right side under the Math button.
Thanks for "triggering" the mental refresh on this feature!
One little thing I came up with when using the scope too is to slide the plastic protector of the ground part, if yours can do this, slide it up over the exposed ground ring near the tip, or cover it somehow. If not, it might just short something on your circuit accidentally as well.
Or black tape.
Sorry, do you mean the ground connection should be isolated?
@@arash4232 Connected to the circuit on the proper place of course, but insulated to not accidentally touch other terminals. On some circuits (small pitch ICs specially) it's surprisingly easy to slip just a bit to the sides and touch what it shouldn't after all.
@@Kalvinjj thank you
I always use this trick, when it's applicable. However, on Rigol DS1000 series the REF waveform does not obey the overall time offset and time scale.
you mean you can't adjust the time base of the REF waveform?
My Siglent SDS-1202x-e can't either. Only the vertical resolution and position.
This is a weird and paradoxical statement at start since you advise to have a 4 channel scope (that will be inferior in spec than a dual one for the same budget) but you show how to not use those four channels then you show how important it is to have a good memory depth on the device (a thing you can't have on a tight budget especially if you go with a 4 channel scope).
If that was not an ironical line at start, you just prove the opposite of it.
I'd heard the reference waveforms mentioned but totally misunderstood what they were for. That's very handy
When I have run out of hands I have always just clipped a cheap plastic clamps I bought at the hardware store onto the probe. Not perfect by any means but it makes a very stable A frame to set on the board or the workbench beside my board.
I miss the floating Dave head.
Just use a helping hand setup. Attach probe to flexible arms and you have 2 free hand.
I love your use of Tupperware to shield you from the 240-volt Mains.
He really had me wondering at the beginning if this was going to be technical solution or a bodge with some random object.
I thought a rubber band was about to join that easy clip in some kind of chopsticks for kids esque solution.
Iceberg86300 kidsesque* or kids-esque*
Thank you, I've learned something new.
like to see an updated logic Analyzer review. I am looking at one of the Kingst USB or maybe jump to stand alone unit.
can you do a video explaining the difference between an FPGA chip, Microcontroller chip and a DSP chip? Sorry if these overlap, I just figured you would be the best one who can explain the differences between each
You know what would useful in this case? Single shot capture with delay. Set a 5 s delay and press the single button. Maybe a beep for each second that has passed. Single shot capture activates. Scope manufacturers could implement this right now with a firmware update as well.
Pls do a review and teardown of this dsox1204g
If absolutely needed a friend's help is far cheaper than a scope with nice reference waveform features. Usually working on their shit anyway so if they don't help, it ain't getting fixed.
But at work getting a kick ass scope is far cheaper (and far faster) than a new helper.
So easy to short things out with the probe's ground ring at the tip.
Most new scopes come with removable tip covers designed specifically to prevent this. Alternatively, wrap black tape around it.
@@bill392 Or a piece of heat shrink.
@@NiHaoMike64 Not only does heat-shrink tubing make a nice compact tight fitting cover, if using the right type (not adhesive lined), it can be easily slipped on and off when needed.
Neat trick, indeed... sadly, for my current predicament it won't do much good. I would need to check on two dual signal lines and have an intermittent fault. Sadly, I can't afford a four channel scope and even with the through hole components: moving hooks around while powered on in hopes to catch the fault has shorting out potential.
I've always just used hot glue and thin magnet wire.
I often do differential probing with 2 channels to avoid ground loops.
Can you show your tricks on this please? 👍
You're spoiled by this Keysight. The Rigol on my desk doesn't store the whole waveform, so you can't zoom in to it.
Ta Dave I was looking for exactly this functionality the other day but didn't know what it was called so what to look for! Turns out my scope has 10 ref waveform channels, perfect!
only works if the two signals are deterministically time coupled.
if they are not this will not work. if you only have to probe two signals
triggering of one channel and powering the DUT up with a footswitch would be my
go to solution...
Can you do a video on the different ways you can secure components in place on a a PCB? There are many methods, and there seems to be controversy surrounding the use of hot glue. People say hot glue doesn’t last every long and a flexible silicone should be used. Also, how do you design boards with components structural support in mind? If it’s designed right do you even need structural adhesive? Thanks
The best trick I would like to pull off is affording that scope 😄
Yes, my GF said she found the tip useful 🙄
Thank you
Probes held like chopsticks at 1:03. No problem for Asian engineers mate!
Clickbait title , I am triggred!
It worked I see.
Actually, armed with this trick, if someone were really hard up against a budget line, a two-channel scope with this reference waveform memory could be enough to stay out of trouble. Then you could go for bandwidth or sample rate in your scope choice!
I'd still suggest a 4 channel scope!
@@EEVblog Right, but options arent a bad thing.
@@EEVblog That's a suggestion but that's rarely advisable.
When on a budget, especially in the sub-400 yankee bucks you talked about, most of the time this is a waste of money to invest in a brand new 4 channel scope with inferior bw, sr or memory compared to the 2 channel devices at the same price range.
Also, it's not that common to really need those two extra channels instead of needing the extra other specs so one of the first thing to compromise on a versatile scope is those extra channels unless you are in a rare case that constantly requires them and experienced enough to make any other trade-off on specs and options.
@@EEVblog "I'd still suggest a 4 channel scope!"
I have the 2 channel version, Keysight DSOX1202G. I love it. I cannot think of a time when I wished for 4 channels BUT when a person has only 2 channels then I don't think in the mode where I would need 4. Perhaps with 4 I would find some uses for 4. Anyway, it was on sale considerably less expensive than the 4 channel version and the built-in signal generator is a great thing plus the BODE plot which i've used rather a lot.
Another video suggested by RUclips pertains to electronic speed control for brushless motor; that's usually 3 phase so you are likely to need 3 channels to watch the phases and maybe a 4th channel for the control input. That would be a use for 4 channel scope. But with 2 channels, set a trigger source then probe each of the phases. Takes a bit longer and is not quite as visual; but of course this is where a reference waveform would help. Two reference waveforms for phase 1 and phase 2, then probe phase 3.
Thank you M.r
Hi
Tyank you for interesting video.
Can you tell me please, how can I generate a single sine pulse, with this device? It generates continuous sine but I need just one cycle of that.
Regards.
What is the CAT rating of the plastic Chinese takeaway tub?
Electronic equivalent of MMF :-)
First! Never done that for an EEVBlog video before!
The greatest feeling in the world.
Congratulations, you win, The Internet.
Alas. Fond memories or the good old DIP Clip...
Get a PCBite probe set, perhaps?
My Cossor CDU150 CRO does not have those buttons...
No subitle/closed caption, why?
@EEvblog, how did this nice little scope end in the garbage bin?
Have seems at least two x1000 series here before. But this looks like a brand spanking new cousin?
0402 is not small, try 01005 :-P
Which sub $400 four channel scope is worth having? That Keysight in the video would be circa $1900
Good question Glenn.
Except in the second hand market, none of the 4-channels devices are worth having at this price point since there are only some 25-50MHz 4 channels ones instead of more versatile 200MHz 2 channels ones (and I only take account of serious brands suited for hobbyists or semi-pros works, not Owon or picoDSO rubbish). Dave inhaled too much magic smoke and solder fumes before recording.
@Glenn Maughan, get in touch with your local Keysight representative. Usually they sell their demo equipment this time of year. Although it will never be sub €400 it will be money well spend. Hardware decoding makes the instrument feel much snappier and pleasurable to work with.
However don't expect really high end measuring performance. The high end stuff is expensive for good reason.
Also check with instrument rental companies, they will likely sell their used equipment.
I got a really good deal on a DSOG1204 4 channel 200 MHz scope.
Hi Dave, I've been watching your channel for a long time. Could you tell me where I can find used oscilloscope test equipment or a professional digital multimeter at a lower price? Could you indicate some sites? Thank you
Most manufacturers have Used/Refurbished equipment available:
For example:
- Keysight: saving.em.keysight.com/used-equipment/products/oscilloscopes-digital-waveform-analyzers/en
- Tek: www.tek.com/encore
Also another good place to look are test equipment rental companies, as they will sometimes sell off their old equipment. Also some resellers (like Newark) sell refurbished, calibrated test equipment.
A big part when looking into this stuff is figuring out what your needs are. For example, manufacturer refurbished stuff may come calibrated, while other used sources may not have a recent calibration. So you would need to get it calibrated yourself after buying which adds on cost.
Makes you think that all this surface mount rubbish (and that board) wasn't really designed with much repairability in mind.
I can't afford a fancy £1000 digital scope.
Buy a cheaper one, it still has reference waveforms.
I want to buy a scope.can team suggest any 😁
Wow USB .........................
Strange and poor naming "reference waveform", normally something like this is called an overlay. If there would be a specific "master" overlay, that's than your reference overlay.
Reference waveform sounds more like some kind of calibration signal.
P_ Mouse then* that's
I'd say the solution is simply to have a friend help, buuuuuuuut… 😕
There is not always someone else available to help. Often you''re working alone when doing electronics repair work
Chopsticks!
DAVEY please teach me how to use a bog standard METER so i can learn how to tesT OHMS and CIRCUITS continuity you havent done this one on a Beginners Level please help out.. I Have small battery pack one with a red and a black probe please help..
Pretty sure I've seen that title on pornhub too. 😂
Please do a video on this scam, free electric and water from household liquid waste looking for investors !
a 10 minutes video ..