Wow. Just typing this after 12 minutes. Sandy's views on TV news, China and way outdated attitudes in the west match mine. I went to China two decades ago, yes two decades not years, and couldn't believe how much they were moving forwards. I worked in the automotive industry. The people I worked with over there were intelligent, hard working and motivated. My employer was an engine design consultancy. Quite honestly, they didn't need our services all that much then. Now, they're the ones showing us how it's done. Tariffs and propaganda can only hide us from reality so long. American, Japanese and European car and energy companies can be protected but will lose their export markets and then go bust anyway if they lock into the past.
Yes! Same here - I went to Shenzhen and Beijing around 15 years ago for telecoms projects. We thought Huawei and ZTE were just making clones for the third world - but to see the size and scale and level of advancement of their R&D - whoosh - they bypassed the U.S. and European suppliers!
Its not just China - on a much smaller scale I moved from the Uk to Bulgaria 15 years ago. It was horses and carts on dirt roads. NOW it looks like Dubai in comparison to the UK. In my carpark on a working class commi block there are 15 brand new cars and they are not little cheap things, 5serese BMW's C--Class mercedes, there is a BMW X6 Mtech
My German-made Mercedes cost 4 times as much in China as it did in the USA. My Chinese visitors told me it was because China had an immense tarriff structure on imports, to protect their domestic auto industry. Every country does what's best for itself. We don't have to bend over and give up our sovereignty.
@@F8Tributo QUOTE: "In addition to the 15% tariff, China collects a 10% tax from buyers of gasoline-powered cars. Cars and SUVs with very large gasoline engines, which are mainly imported, pay an additional tax of 40%" So NO it did NOT cost 4 times as much Can NO ONE use Google???
What a brilliant podcast. Sandy is so knowledgeable and at the same time made it light hearted but honest. I’m 66 years old and I can remember the Japanese coming to the uk and taking over the auto industry by building cars that were both cheaper and a lot more reliable. And as sandy says we are seeing history repeating itself but from China. All I can say is company owners and directors haven’t learned anything. I’m a car enthusiast and have said years ago if the Chinese get there act together Europe’s car industry is done and they have because while the European car makers like BMW and MERCEDES were allowing the Chinese to build their cars they we’re learning to build there own. What a great guy.
Joint ventures you are referring to is not unique to China. South Korea and Turkey are examples of copying American weapon systems through forced joint ventures and kit assembly of U.S. weapons and then learning from it and making your own and exporting it. Turkey and South Korea have been stealing US arm sales from developing country because they’re much cheaper than Western weapons while performing just like it. Korean Airlines is South Korea’s state airline but also aviation contractor that went from maintaining U.S. military aircraft in South Korea to manufacturing portions of it to now design and manufacturing their own fighter jet with the help of Lockheed Martin.
You're 66 years old so you must have an idea when did the decline of British companies started??? I was born in 90s and since I've started observing things I haven't seen British companies competing with US, German and Japanese players at mass scale. When did it start????
@@arminius6506 the answer to your question is it all started in the late 70s with the introduction of the Datsun sunny 120y. And then by the middle 80s Japanese cars were in full flow to the uk. Then British leyland as it was called Ended up doing joint partnerships with Honda. By about the 2000s it was all over for BL as it was known at that point because of bad management and no money to invest in new cars. And as a result eventually mini was sold of to BMW Jaguar Land Rover to TATA motors. Jaguar to Ford and finally MG to China. By about 2010 there was know British owned car industry left, even RR is owned by BMW and Bentley by VW group. Sad. Only small niche car makers are left.
Haven't listened to Sandy before so I don't have any pre-conceived notions towards him like it seems a few commenters do. Seemed pretty honest and straight forward to me. I enjoyed this conversation.
@@t1n4444 Sandy's opinions are based on many years of experience and very deep knowledge. He's been in the auto industry for many decades and done some amazing work in vehicles as well as other projects. He helped design a major passenger jet, he worked on the Space Station design, he worked on the EV1, he's created a company that does expert work for other companies that are having product problems. But perhaps the most important thing about Sandy is he lets facts drive his opinions. When he first saw the Tesla 3 he dismissed it because the body was not up to industry standards. He drove it around a parking lot and, based on its performance, decided it was worth a closer look. He then took one into his company shop, tore it down, and became a Tesla believer.
Many people have been kidnapped by populism and politicians. Free competition is the most beneficial to consumers and industry. The States has our advantages, and China has their own advantages. Mutual cooperation is the fastest way to promote technological progress. However, in order to win votes, they start to shape an enemy that does not exist, which is harmful to both sides. I have been to China many times. To be honest, the culture and environment there are not warlike, but peaceful and orderly. Every time I return back, I am shocked by the mainstream media reports about China, which are completely not on the same planet as where I actually went. It is difficult to understand when the States‘ hatred for China for no reason began.
Same here (you get tired of the ‘news’ and linear TV at age 69). Most of the young people I know have done the same too and choose what they want to access and when
A mate of mine raced bikes in UK in the 60’s. He said the Japanese arrived one year and they had a good laugh although they didn’t leak oil. The Japanese were there to test and learn. They came back the following year and won everything.
The Japanese replaced the kick start with a battery ignition start. This opened a new market to the motorcycle market away from the grease and macho market.
@@stephengreen8986 I've been ridding for well over 50 years and had Japanese, British, European and American motorcycles. The idea that electric start is somehow responsible for the rise of the Japanese industry is so simplistic it's ridiculous. The key motorcycle model to look at is the Honda 750/4. Yes it has electric start but it's way more than that.
Sandy is one person I listen to when he talks. I have seen him on other videos and he gives a simple and honest description of what he sees. I fantastic chat!
Sandy is a fantastic motor industry 'insider' who speaks the truth, not corporate garbage. Well done to Aptera too for a unique, innovative and exciting product......go Aptera!
😂😂😂 Yes, the design is retro and quirky. And solar panels are very "Tomorrow's World" for nerdy schoolboys still living in the 60s ... but will it sell in enough numbers to make a profit for the money men? We'll soon know if the renaissance thing is justified.
When better EVs from China at an affordable price tag come in, the Americans will like EVs that are like smart phones compared to old blackberry phones.
I so enjoyed the interview. Thank you guys. I hope CEOs of big car manufacturers listen so they will not vanish in the next decade. Brilliant conclusion. I love the type of humour you both guys have. All the best!
@@freddybell8328 all the time! Basic research is never funded by companies. To take a recent example, who do you think funded Geoffrey Hinton and his basic research into artificial neural networks as early as the 80s that form the foundation for today's LLM's? Even as late as AlexNet, by Ilya Sutskever who later founded OpenAI, basically the precursor to the LLM, that research was funded by taxpayers at the University of Toronto. The same is true for pretty much every technical innovation around us. Companies don't fund basic research because it's too long term and too risky. To go back to the same example, for many years, many thought the neural network idea was dead, yet we as a society funded people to continue the investigations. There was absolutely no guarantee of a payoff, or for any eventual payoff to materialize within the next hundred years. The same is true of all basic research.
@@freddybell8328DARPA has funded early research into the internet, tft screens, chips, and much more. DARPA is probably funding amazing stuff today which is currently hidden.
When the Engineers who have the knowledge and enthusiasm to make a company work, then get replaced by bean-counters, who can't see beyond the bottom line, and look at the world through last months figures. Then everything goes pear-shaped. Toyota, VW, Boeing, etc.
I laugh so hard when the good old Monroe talked about how he realised China is like 😂. My goodness, China’s our enemy my a$$ indeed, they are doing so great it’s time for us to learn their trick back to improve ourselves.
Well Robert is right about the lower wages in China. It's not just the work hours to put a car together but also the work hours in the other parts of the supply chain. On top of that China can source almost everything from their own country
It used to be way cheaper. Chinese wages have shut up dramatically in the past few years. Way more expensive than Mexico in approaching usa wages for assemblers
This is the part Trump doesn't understand. Its not just the one factory. You want to bring back manufacturing, you need to think about bringing back the whole supply chain, which China took 30-40 years to build, with focus and plan.
@@IA100KPDTTrump just wants the red-necked votes. In the end, several enterprises set up factories in the United States, and then they can claim to have completed the return of manufacturing, thus winning the votes.
It is the best guest you could ever invite ❤️❤️❤️😎 All the best from Poland🇵🇱😎👍 100% good view on our reality... I've studied mechanical engineering, but unfortunately been working in construction (small builder in UK and in Poland), but cars and other vehicles has been always my first love❤️😎 Thank you gents for what you are doing and sharing with us 👍❤️🚗😎👍
Sandy nailed it. He’s a straight shooter whose perspective on things is from one who does things. The west has grown complacent. Greed has irreparably broken it. Good on the countries that work to create & build the infrastructure we need for the future. I’m not afraid and don’t feel threatened.
Sandy is the most fascinating and hilarious guy. I've followed Munro Associates for a few years. Rule of thumb: when Sandy speaks, you listen, and listen good [sic].
This is a great discussion. The world has changed and the acceleration of change it's stressing everyone... people should be allowed to purchase the Chinese cars to really see what they're producing and deliver a serious wakeup slap to our car manufacturers to wake up... and speed up.
Sandy is correct about the Triumph motorcycle. I owned a Triumph Bonneville in 1960, and I would work on it all week so I could ride it on Sunday. Then I got smart and bought a BMW motorcycle, one of the best purchases I ever made.
I discovered Sandy just before covid, he is by far my most favourite capitalist. I love his take on how to get ahead in big industry, "say no". Regarding wire harnesses; resistance is based on the cross sectional area not on the diameter meaning the move from 12-48V means a conductor diameter reduction by 50%. The savings due to the move from can bus to ethernet I don't know but that could be substantial due to the vast increase in bandwidth and reduction in required cabling.
@@4203105 I wonder how much of the problem is capitalism versus publicly traded companies. It seems for publicly traded companies everything revolves around this quarter’s stock price. You look at a privately held company like SpaceX. They are executing on a long-term vision while not having to worry about stock price.
@@4203105 ; yes, Sandy is a capitalist. He has a repair business and a RUclips channel for profit. As for his comparison between China and Japan, while an argument can be made that Japan didn’t have an unfair advantage with cars in the 1970s/80s, it’s pretty clear that China has a supply chain advantage and has more backing from the Chinese government with EVs.
I'm pretty certain that when I'm in the market, my first electric car will almost certainly be Chinese. They are streets ahead. The west's legacy cars aren't even close.
Weve just arrived in Mallorca. I bought Key&go from Goldcar. Looks very expensive (299€ for Citreon c3, 10 days) but if you bought the basic price plus excess insurance it works out about €60 more. We arrived in the car hire desks in arrivals, it was packed with people. We had the keys from the vending machine in 5 minutes. We've been in these size ques before and they can be up to 2 hrs. Definitely worth the money. Thanks for the great videos.
Loved this interview, Sandy Munro is always fantastic. I love watching the stuff on his channel. You guys should also try to get an interview with Tu Le from Sino Auto Insights if you’re interested in the China angle.
There's a very interesting channel , Inside China Business. A US veteran telling it like it is in 5-10 minute reports explaining (basically) how US Government and by proxy, business is screwing up. It's not a pretty picture and many in these comment sections won't like or admit what he relays, but it's the truth. Most research is from verifiable US and European Media sources.
I lived and worked in the US for 16 years. During that time, I saw Americans embrace Diesel engines, when they had just a decade before they had shunned them. Why! Because GM and Ford didn't make very good Diesel engines. That was just a preamble to what is happening right now. America, UK, and most of the European market place, didn't embrace battery/EV technology, because of lazy greedy capitalistic approaches to share value and short term economic thinking. Just what Sandy is alluding to. Then what happens? The huge weight of the status quo is brought to bear against those who want to move ahead with the new tech. It's called protectionism. Whereas the US is all about "open market" NOT! They are now very afraid of the economic beast that they helped to create. Just watch what's going to happen in next few years, chaos in the global market.
Great video guys! I drive a 60 km flat stretch of the trans Canada highway 4 days a week and I see broken down ice vehicles including semi’s almost everytime either going or coming back. In 9 years not one electric i will be at the Fully Charged Show again in Vancouver, BC 🇨🇦
@@DAVIDTATLITUG David, you could be correct. Or, thousands of us could receive our Aptera and company goes bankrupt like Fisker and Arcimoto. However, there are over $1 billion of orders in reservations so there’s no demand problem. Unlike other EV companies, 90% of production equipment has been eliminated by fiber body, no paint shop, and outsourcing. They need lots on money so hopefully a “white knight” appears.
The Chinese version of capitalism that is being controlled by strong communist/socialist thinking is certainly working for their country and for their people...all the people in their country are benefitting and sharing in their success.
Awesome episode love Sandy's rants 😂😂😂😂. And yeah totally agree US and Europe was sleeping on Chinese automakers just too long and now they surpassed legacy automakers in EV space
It's PRECISELY the mirror of what happened with the US company which shall not be named on the channel. (The one which TOLD them what they would do in 2006)
Fantastic video Didn't realize how much I have missed Sandy His comments clear my brain Must be because I don't have to sieve the bullcrap It's amazing what uses your mental and physical energy When you don't have to do it, the world is much clearer and pleasant See. I am a poet and don't know it Thanks
just proves that talented engineers like Sandy and the one who should not be named, need a good PR team to be understood and influence masses, for now they come across... polarising. at least. Great job Robert to run a more positive agenda in general which makes a great difference
I'm anti-capitalist, but one of the thing that irks me the most is the total lack of understanding cuŕrent economists have of how their own system works, and what is our current situation. Neoliberalism is a hell of a drug...
35:49 exactly. I was so annoyed/dejected/angry when the EU decided on those tariffs because I'm pretty sure with that they just killed our car industries.
9:04 Sandy summarises neoliberal trade policy so beautifully here 😂 Golden. It's funny. He describes over and over the giant flaws of capitalism then declares what a big fan of capitalism he is 🤦♂️
Sandy is the disciple of professor Deming who was instrumental in building Japans post war auto industry. Deming was probably the most important person for Japan since 1946. Sandy helps to build missiles, fighter jets and cars all over the world. Simpler, cheaper, lighter… Call Munro.
04:06 Have to humbly correct Sandy here. US EV growth in 1H 2024 was +7.3% year on year (more than double ~2.9% all US auto sales). In reality, it's pretty much only Tesla of the major EV players with declining sales (for obvious Elon-based reasons): US 1H 2024 EV growth (sorted by total sales) Tesla -9.6% Ford 71.8% Hyundai 34.3% Kia 103.7% Rivian 33.0% BMW 38.0% Mercedes 11.7% Chevrolet -40.8% Cadillac 465.4% Nissan 31.6% VW -27.9% Audi 22.0% Toyota 158.8% Lexus 404.8% Subaru 81.2% Lucid 36.0% TOTAL 7.3% (Kelley Blue Book EV Sales Report Q2 2024)
@fredbloggs5902 Right. Point is, EV demand is growing, Tesla demand is shrinking. (This has obvious implications for the share price of a 'growth stock', but that's a bit beyond my original point.)
@@jarrodf_ 1) Tesla isn’t just a car company 2) Tesla sells worldwide, not just the US 3) Sales for all companies were down in Q1 4) The Y is still on course to be the best selling car worldwide 5) Most other companies are selling EVs at a loss which obviously isn’t sustainable 6) The next gen Tesla will be much cheaper 7) FSD is a USP unavailable to the others for at least 2 years
@@fredbloggs5902 Here we go. Let's just agree to disagree. But I'm sure your mate Elon donating to Trump will help Tesla's flagging brand immeasurably ;)
2nd hand Teslas made in China are fetching around £700 more than American made Teslas.. why? They are made better and the battery tech (LFP) is also better.
They ARE "Better made". BUT The "LFP (LiFePO4) Battery Tech is better" myth is just that. It's DIFFERENT and SOMETIMES more SUITABLE, but "BETTER" is the wrong term. Add that new variations and refinements of BOTH or rather ALL chemistry and material types are "moving the goalposts" daily, to the extent that "WE" don't really have a clue.
@rogerstarkey5390 no Myth. Really, no myths. My MG5 52KWh battery 8s now on 151600 fault free miles. It is an NMC battery but is holding up well. Range? Maybe I have lost 5 miles? No more.
Nikki at Transport Evolved did a make by make breakdown on Q2 EV sales 2 days ago. The Republican/Petroleum cabal is in full swing trying to kill EVs....but sales are still rising
I have never listened to Sandy before.. but I thoroughly enjoyed this episode.. the man knows what he's talking about..very honest and straight forward.. he is quite a character.. awesome 👍👌
Robert and Sandy brilliant thanks I love cut to the crap highly qualified opinion . so rare as Sandy repeated. He talked about CNN, we have similar b/s mongers ie GB news et al .. Sandy’s insights firmly kicks em into touch .. more please
Our media are all as bad as GB News - all of them, from The Grauniad to The Mirror, to the Torygraph to The Sun, to The BBC, to Channel 4, and all the others. All scum.
daamn Sandy :)) stole the show for me. What. a. rant. @Rogan.... or @Lex, there is a man, who you guys, i think, you could be inviting soon. And kudos to Robert for giving the stage
17:50 gotta screw those workers into the ground for the higher profits Sandy! Ironic. You even pointed out that one of the reasons that Chinese costs are lower is because firms accept lower profits than western investors will.
Geely is more like Stellantis, which manages more than a dozen brands. (geely, Lynk & Co, zeekr, volvo, Polestar, Proton, Lotus , smart.....) BYD is more like Toyota and Volkswagen.
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What he said about the fake news and the anti china propaganda is spot on. Great interview.
He is.
Wow. Just typing this after 12 minutes. Sandy's views on TV news, China and way outdated attitudes in the west match mine. I went to China two decades ago, yes two decades not years, and couldn't believe how much they were moving forwards. I worked in the automotive industry. The people I worked with over there were intelligent, hard working and motivated. My employer was an engine design consultancy. Quite honestly, they didn't need our services all that much then. Now, they're the ones showing us how it's done. Tariffs and propaganda can only hide us from reality so long. American, Japanese and European car and energy companies can be protected but will lose their export markets and then go bust anyway if they lock into the past.
Yes! Same here - I went to Shenzhen and Beijing around 15 years ago for telecoms projects. We thought Huawei and ZTE were just making clones for the third world - but to see the size and scale and level of advancement of their R&D - whoosh - they bypassed the U.S. and European suppliers!
Its not just China - on a much smaller scale I moved from the Uk to Bulgaria 15 years ago. It was horses and carts on dirt roads. NOW it looks like Dubai in comparison to the UK.
In my carpark on a working class commi block there are 15 brand new cars and they are not little cheap things, 5serese BMW's C--Class mercedes, there is a BMW X6 Mtech
Wow
My German-made Mercedes cost 4 times as much in China as it did in the USA. My Chinese visitors told me it was because China had an immense tarriff structure on imports, to protect their domestic auto industry. Every country does what's best for itself. We don't have to bend over and give up our sovereignty.
@@F8Tributo QUOTE: "In addition to the 15% tariff, China collects a 10% tax from buyers of gasoline-powered cars. Cars and SUVs with very large gasoline engines, which are mainly imported, pay an additional tax of 40%"
So NO it did NOT cost 4 times as much
Can NO ONE use Google???
I was in Shanghi a week ago and Sandy is spot on with his views on China and howbmuch they are ahead
What a brilliant podcast. Sandy is so knowledgeable and at the same time made it light hearted but honest. I’m 66 years old and I can remember the Japanese coming to the uk and taking over the auto industry by building cars that were both cheaper and a lot more reliable. And as sandy says we are seeing history repeating itself but from China. All I can say is company owners and directors haven’t learned anything. I’m a car enthusiast and have said years ago if the Chinese get there act together Europe’s car industry is done and they have because while the European car makers like BMW and MERCEDES were allowing the Chinese to build their cars they we’re learning to build there own. What a great guy.
Joint ventures you are referring to is not unique to China. South Korea and Turkey are examples of copying American weapon systems through forced joint ventures and kit assembly of U.S. weapons and then learning from it and making your own and exporting it. Turkey and South Korea have been stealing US arm sales from developing country because they’re much cheaper than Western weapons while performing just like it. Korean Airlines is South Korea’s state airline but also aviation contractor that went from maintaining U.S. military aircraft in South Korea to manufacturing portions of it to now design and manufacturing their own fighter jet with the help of Lockheed Martin.
You're 66 years old so you must have an idea when did the decline of British companies started??? I was born in 90s and since I've started observing things I haven't seen British companies competing with US, German and Japanese players at mass scale. When did it start????
@@arminius6506 the answer to your question is it all started in the late 70s with the introduction of the Datsun sunny 120y. And then by the middle 80s Japanese cars were in full flow to the uk. Then British leyland as it was called Ended up doing joint partnerships with Honda. By about the 2000s it was all over for BL as it was known at that point because of bad management and no money to invest in new cars. And as a result eventually mini was sold of to BMW Jaguar Land Rover to TATA motors. Jaguar to Ford and finally MG to China. By about 2010 there was know British owned car industry left, even RR is owned by BMW and Bentley by VW group. Sad. Only small niche car makers are left.
Haven't listened to Sandy before so I don't have any pre-conceived notions towards him like it seems a few commenters do. Seemed pretty honest and straight forward to me. I enjoyed this conversation.
People listened to him for hours know him much better sorry.
check out his breakdown videos on the model Y and cybertruck
We ALL have views on Sandy Munroe!
@@河粉-k1h I`ve listened to him a lot, seems pretty straight to me. Maybe you have an agenda?
Sandy is pure gold. I love that guy for being so bloody honest.
An asshat, for sure! But we love experts!
LOVE Sandy's honesty! Thank you for not following the main stream bull crap!
Hmm ... are you sure about that?
What he considers is bull crap is just his opinion.
Might be true sometimes and sometimes not so much.
@@t1n4444 true true. For those in the middle, it'll be a grain of salt, and what your personally think/believe....
@@t1n4444
Sandy's opinions are based on many years of experience and very deep knowledge. He's been in the auto industry for many decades and done some amazing work in vehicles as well as other projects. He helped design a major passenger jet, he worked on the Space Station design, he worked on the EV1, he's created a company that does expert work for other companies that are having product problems.
But perhaps the most important thing about Sandy is he lets facts drive his opinions. When he first saw the Tesla 3 he dismissed it because the body was not up to industry standards. He drove it around a parking lot and, based on its performance, decided it was worth a closer look. He then took one into his company shop, tore it down, and became a Tesla believer.
Many people have been kidnapped by populism and politicians. Free competition is the most beneficial to consumers and industry. The States has our advantages, and China has their own advantages. Mutual cooperation is the fastest way to promote technological progress. However, in order to win votes, they start to shape an enemy that does not exist, which is harmful to both sides. I have been to China many times. To be honest, the culture and environment there are not warlike, but peaceful and orderly. Every time I return back, I am shocked by the mainstream media reports about China, which are completely not on the same planet as where I actually went. It is difficult to understand when the States‘ hatred for China for no reason began.
The CCP, not the Chinese people!! Get it right!!
@@mitchpeter5718 chug more koolaid, lol.
@@mitchpeter5718 The CPC, not CCP. That's the tip of your ignorance about China.
@@litesp what does cpc mean please??
Ignorance is pathetic @@mitchpeter5718
Good on Sandy for not watching mainstream TV, i unplugged 18 years ago.
Same here (you get tired of the ‘news’ and linear TV at age 69). Most of the young people I know have done the same too and choose what they want to access and when
I don't watch mainstream news either 😕
Quit watching in 1997.
Same here.
Same here. I stopped watching TV almost 20 years ago.
A mate of mine raced bikes in UK in the 60’s.
He said the Japanese arrived one year and they had a good laugh although they didn’t leak oil. The Japanese were there to test and learn.
They came back the following year and won everything.
The Japanese replaced the kick start with a battery ignition start. This opened a new market to the motorcycle market away from the grease and macho market.
@@stephengreen8986 I've been ridding for well over 50 years and had Japanese, British, European and American motorcycles. The idea that electric start is somehow responsible for the rise of the Japanese industry is so simplistic it's ridiculous. The key motorcycle model to look at is the Honda 750/4. Yes it has electric start but it's way more than that.
@@stephengreen8986also had trafficators.
@@gazza595 Honda CB750, the original superbike. Sounds like Sandy opted for the KH widowmaker.
Awesome interview. Sandy in fine form - telling truths. Everyone in the west needs to sit up and listen.
Sandy is one person I listen to when he talks. I have seen him on other videos and he gives a simple and honest description of what he sees. I fantastic chat!
Sandy is a fantastic motor industry 'insider' who speaks the truth, not corporate garbage. Well done to Aptera too for a unique, innovative and exciting product......go Aptera!
😂😂😂
Yes, the design is retro and quirky.
And solar panels are very "Tomorrow's World" for nerdy schoolboys still living in the 60s ... but will it sell in enough numbers to make a profit for the money men?
We'll soon know if the renaissance thing is justified.
great talk❤
Stupid question: If nobody in America wants EV, what's the point of the Chinese tariff?
American wants expensive ev made by elon musk.
When better EVs from China at an affordable price tag come in, the Americans will like EVs that are like smart phones compared to old blackberry phones.
Smart Canadian already put 100% tariff on “invisible “ Chinese EV sold in Canada.
@@patrick_lee and to protect the car manufacture that they don't have 😂
When cheap and good Chinese EVs become available in America, everybody would want EVs.
Bang on. Spent a lot of time working for companies that can't see beyond the end of the quarter.
@@killercarpcatcher There are good managers out there that are big picture people. Unfortunately they seem to be outnumbered by the short termists.
I so enjoyed the interview. Thank you guys.
I hope CEOs of big car manufacturers listen so they will not vanish in the next decade.
Brilliant conclusion. I love the type of humour you both guys have.
All the best!
The CEOs know everything happening on the ground I believe. It’s the toxic political climate that’s destroying things…unfortunately
@@silverswan8 Its the unions, they benefit from stasis.
Capitalism has always been short-term thinking. It's why we fund long-term research with taxpayer money, companies simply won't take that risk.
Nope the companies that think long term win. Whens the last time you used something from a recent research project.
@@freddybell8328 all the time! Basic research is never funded by companies. To take a recent example, who do you think funded Geoffrey Hinton and his basic research into artificial neural networks as early as the 80s that form the foundation for today's LLM's? Even as late as AlexNet, by Ilya Sutskever who later founded OpenAI, basically the precursor to the LLM, that research was funded by taxpayers at the University of Toronto. The same is true for pretty much every technical innovation around us. Companies don't fund basic research because it's too long term and too risky.
To go back to the same example, for many years, many thought the neural network idea was dead, yet we as a society funded people to continue the investigations. There was absolutely no guarantee of a payoff, or for any eventual payoff to materialize within the next hundred years. The same is true of all basic research.
No one willing to put heir money on a 10 years plan
@@freddybell8328DARPA has funded early research into the internet, tft screens, chips, and much more. DARPA is probably funding amazing stuff today which is currently hidden.
Apart from most founder led companies. They think long term
When the Engineers who have the knowledge and enthusiasm to make a company work, then get replaced by bean-counters, who can't see beyond the bottom line, and look at the world through last months figures. Then everything goes pear-shaped. Toyota, VW, Boeing, etc.
A good example, most Western government and policy makers are legal / political science trained vs China's engineer trained. The world of difference
I laugh so hard when the good old Monroe talked about how he realised China is like 😂. My goodness, China’s our enemy my a$$ indeed, they are doing so great it’s time for us to learn their trick back to improve ourselves.
China is not the enemy, but the person who claims xxx is the enemy.
I'm not in Europe nor in the USA. My next car is a BYD. They're launching here in a big way. The world is not just the USA and Europe.
Well Robert is right about the lower wages in China. It's not just the work hours to put a car together but also the work hours in the other parts of the supply chain. On top of that China can source almost everything from their own country
It used to be way cheaper. Chinese wages have shut up dramatically in the past few years. Way more expensive than Mexico in approaching usa wages for assemblers
Wages low is a factor. Key difference is diligence, discipline and skill of Chinese workers outclass most Western workers
This is the part Trump doesn't understand. Its not just the one factory. You want to bring back manufacturing, you need to think about bringing back the whole supply chain, which China took 30-40 years to build, with focus and plan.
@@IA100KPDTTrump just wants the red-necked votes. In the end, several enterprises set up factories in the United States, and then they can claim to have completed the return of manufacturing, thus winning the votes.
It is the best guest you could ever invite ❤️❤️❤️😎
All the best from Poland🇵🇱😎👍
100% good view on our reality...
I've studied mechanical engineering, but unfortunately been working in construction (small builder in UK and in Poland), but cars and other vehicles has been always my first love❤️😎
Thank you gents for what you are doing and sharing with us 👍❤️🚗😎👍
Amazing honesty thanks.
🙋♂️ THANKS ROBERT,FOR LETTING SANDY RANT ON 😁
I GAVE UP ON BROADCAST NEWS 📰 SOMEWHERE BACK IN THE NINETYs,FOR THE SAME REASONS 💚💚💚
Sandy nailed it. He’s a straight shooter whose perspective on things is from one who does things. The west has grown complacent. Greed has irreparably broken it. Good on the countries that work to create & build the infrastructure we need for the future. I’m not afraid and don’t feel threatened.
Finally, its a long time coming, two legends together.
Robert certainly is a legend ... playing Kryten.
Legends? Hahaha! WTF? Podcasters are now LEGENDS? HAHAHA! A China shill a LEGEND? Sure!
Sandy is the most fascinating and hilarious guy. I've followed Munro Associates for a few years. Rule of thumb: when Sandy speaks, you listen, and listen good [sic].
This is a great discussion. The world has changed and the acceleration of change it's stressing everyone... people should be allowed to purchase the Chinese cars to really see what they're producing and deliver a serious wakeup slap to our car manufacturers to wake up... and speed up.
Thank you Robert - great show - I really look forward to these shows.
Sandy is correct about the Triumph motorcycle.
I owned a Triumph Bonneville in 1960, and I would work on it all week so I could ride it on Sunday.
Then I got smart and bought a BMW motorcycle, one of the best purchases I ever made.
Brilliant interview loads of truth spoken.
I discovered Sandy just before covid, he is by far my most favourite capitalist. I love his take on how to get ahead in big industry, "say no". Regarding wire harnesses; resistance is based on the cross sectional area not on the diameter meaning the move from 12-48V means a conductor diameter reduction by 50%. The savings due to the move from can bus to ethernet I don't know but that could be substantial due to the vast increase in bandwidth and reduction in required cabling.
It's always funny "I'm a staunch capitalist!... I just don't like all these things that are an integral part of capitalism".
@@4203105 I wonder how much of the problem is capitalism versus publicly traded companies. It seems for publicly traded companies everything revolves around this quarter’s stock price.
You look at a privately held company like SpaceX. They are executing on a long-term vision while not having to worry about stock price.
@@4203105 ; yes, Sandy is a capitalist. He has a repair business and a RUclips channel for profit.
As for his comparison between China and Japan, while an argument can be made that Japan didn’t have an unfair advantage with cars in the 1970s/80s, it’s pretty clear that China has a supply chain advantage and has more backing from the Chinese government with EVs.
@@bb1111116 missed the topic, sit down, F.
If the world would change to EV vehicles; It would benefit the world for people to change To EV’s, solar panels, wind power, and Battery storage.
Affluenza? 🤣 I love Robert and Sandy together!! ❤❤❤
Sandy is a damn treasure. Id watch a video of him reading a Chinese food menu.
Sandy is a LEGEND. Great conversation.
Very important video everyone should watch even well beyond the auto industry! Sandy is well known and has a lot of experience!
I'm pretty certain that when I'm in the market, my first electric car will almost certainly be Chinese. They are streets ahead. The west's legacy cars aren't even close.
Sandy is a diamond you and him make a great duo Robert
Two of the best in a great package!
Loved the show. Very rounded.
What a fantastic interview, Sandy is in fine form and giving it full send. Brilliant, just brilliant!
This is an exceptional program of the entire world auto industry. I have subscribed to your channel based on this show.
Fascinating
Straight up great show❤
Steve is such an engaging person, gotta love his interview 👍
Weve just arrived in Mallorca. I bought Key&go from Goldcar. Looks very expensive (299€ for Citreon c3, 10 days) but if you bought the basic price plus excess insurance it works out about €60 more. We arrived in the car hire desks in arrivals, it was packed with people. We had the keys from the vending machine in 5 minutes. We've been in these size ques before and they can be up to 2 hrs. Definitely worth the money. Thanks for the great videos.
Two legends in one podcast! So good when you two old men get together! Sandy is so insightful.
Loved this interview, Sandy Munro is always fantastic. I love watching the stuff on his channel. You guys should also try to get an interview with Tu Le from Sino Auto Insights if you’re interested in the China angle.
There's a very interesting channel , Inside China Business.
A US veteran telling it like it is in 5-10 minute reports explaining (basically) how US Government and by proxy, business is screwing up.
It's not a pretty picture and many in these comment sections won't like or admit what he relays, but it's the truth.
Most research is from verifiable US and European Media sources.
I lived and worked in the US for 16 years. During that time, I saw Americans embrace Diesel engines, when they had just a decade before they had shunned them. Why! Because GM and Ford didn't make very good Diesel engines. That was just a preamble to what is happening right now. America, UK, and most of the European market place, didn't embrace battery/EV technology, because of lazy greedy capitalistic approaches to share value and short term economic thinking. Just what Sandy is alluding to. Then what happens? The huge weight of the status quo is brought to bear against those who want to move ahead with the new tech. It's called protectionism. Whereas the US is all about "open market" NOT! They are now very afraid of the economic beast that they helped to create.
Just watch what's going to happen in next few years, chaos in the global market.
Great video guys! I drive a 60 km flat stretch of the trans Canada highway 4 days a week and I see broken down ice vehicles including semi’s almost everytime either going or coming back. In 9 years not one electric i will be at the Fully Charged Show again in Vancouver, BC 🇨🇦
Sandy is an incredibly awesome human. He proves it every time he speaks.
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
I love the guys at Munro. I watched them tear down the Hyundai ioniq 5 and it was amazing to see the knowledge these guys have!
Did you watch them tear down the successive Tesla models?
Much more informative.
I watch your show and still don't know who you are but am glad you speak electric. than. you
As an EE almost Sandy’s age, I ❤️ listening to him. Anxious for my Aptera delivery.
I'll bet you never ever receive your aptera. You will see a second bankruptcy. Aptera is a motorcycle and will be titled as one.
@@DAVIDTATLITUG David, you could be correct. Or, thousands of us could receive our Aptera and company goes bankrupt like Fisker and Arcimoto. However, there are over $1 billion of orders in reservations so there’s no demand problem. Unlike other EV companies, 90% of production equipment has been eliminated by fiber body, no paint shop, and outsourcing. They need lots on money so hopefully a “white knight” appears.
The Chinese version of capitalism that is being controlled by strong communist/socialist thinking is certainly working for their country and for their people...all the people in their country are benefitting and sharing in their success.
Tell that to the Uyghurs.
@@fredbloggs5902 haha I can tell you only listen to the mainstream media propaganda.
@@fredbloggs5902 ruclips.net/video/d_rsCMsWTjs/видео.html
@fredbloggs5902 they definitely are. I am muslim. Are you muslim? Why do you suddenly care about muslims? When it fake news?
@@fredbloggs5902 Tell that to Gazans if you guys love Muslims so much, don't you
thanks Robert Great interview with Sandy Munro
Wow what a great guest!
Awesome episode love Sandy's rants 😂😂😂😂.
And yeah totally agree US and Europe was sleeping on Chinese automakers just too long and now they surpassed legacy automakers in EV space
It's PRECISELY the mirror of what happened with the US company which shall not be named on the channel.
(The one which TOLD them what they would do in 2006)
Excellent interview !
There should be a law that only engineers can be CEOs or at least CTOs
Fantastic video
Didn't realize how much I have missed Sandy
His comments clear my brain
Must be because I don't have to sieve the bullcrap
It's amazing what uses your mental and physical energy
When you don't have to do it, the world is much clearer and pleasant
See. I am a poet and don't know it
Thanks
Great show!!!
just proves that talented engineers like Sandy and the one who should not be named, need a good PR team to be understood and influence masses, for now they come across... polarising. at least. Great job Robert to run a more positive agenda in general which makes a great difference
I'm anti-capitalist, but one of the thing that irks me the most is the total lack of understanding cuŕrent economists have of how their own system works, and what is our current situation. Neoliberalism is a hell of a drug...
35:49 exactly. I was so annoyed/dejected/angry when the EU decided on those tariffs because I'm pretty sure with that they just killed our car industries.
The EU industry committed suicide about 5-10 years ago when they failed to see the writing on the walls.
What a great interview!
Really enjoyed listening to this, thanks.
Every time a sales person mentions Gartners magic quadrant, I have to hold back a burst of laughter 😂
9:04 Sandy summarises neoliberal trade policy so beautifully here 😂 Golden.
It's funny. He describes over and over the giant flaws of capitalism then declares what a big fan of capitalism he is 🤦♂️
This guy is entertaining and a I like it !
Thanks for reinforcing my decision to go EV. I did my research and went with Lucid. I'm very happy with my purchase.
Excellent video. Common sense full on 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Sandy is the disciple of professor Deming who was instrumental in building Japans post war auto industry.
Deming was probably the most important person for Japan since 1946.
Sandy helps to build missiles, fighter jets and cars all over the world. Simpler, cheaper, lighter… Call Munro.
Yeah.
The "Web warriors" need to educate themselves before "Advancing uninformed opinion"
Great interview!🎉❤
Maybe not 50 % electric cars sales in the USA in five years but most likely 50% in Asia, South America and Europe.
Loved it!
For some reason I'm hearing "kids these days" before everything Munro says..
Er... No, you're not....!!
04:06 Have to humbly correct Sandy here. US EV growth in 1H 2024 was +7.3% year on year (more than double ~2.9% all US auto sales). In reality, it's pretty much only Tesla of the major EV players with declining sales (for obvious Elon-based reasons):
US 1H 2024 EV growth (sorted by total sales)
Tesla -9.6%
Ford 71.8%
Hyundai 34.3%
Kia 103.7%
Rivian 33.0%
BMW 38.0%
Mercedes 11.7%
Chevrolet -40.8%
Cadillac 465.4%
Nissan 31.6%
VW -27.9%
Audi 22.0%
Toyota 158.8%
Lexus 404.8%
Subaru 81.2%
Lucid 36.0%
TOTAL 7.3%
(Kelley Blue Book EV Sales Report Q2 2024)
Sales growth YoY expressed as a percentage is utterly meaningless because a company selling 1 car in 2023 and 2 cars in 2024 will have 100% growth 🙄
@fredbloggs5902 Right. Point is, EV demand is growing, Tesla demand is shrinking. (This has obvious implications for the share price of a 'growth stock', but that's a bit beyond my original point.)
@@jarrodf_
1) Tesla isn’t just a car company
2) Tesla sells worldwide, not just the US
3) Sales for all companies were down in Q1
4) The Y is still on course to be the best selling car worldwide
5) Most other companies are selling EVs at a loss which obviously isn’t sustainable
6) The next gen Tesla will be much cheaper
7) FSD is a USP unavailable to the others for at least 2 years
@@fredbloggs5902 Here we go. Let's just agree to disagree. But I'm sure your mate Elon donating to Trump will help Tesla's flagging brand immeasurably ;)
@@jarrodf_ $TSLA is up 7.32% since Elon publicly endorsed Trump.
Nice to see Sandy in an original interview without the AI ads. Thx.
2nd hand Teslas made in China are fetching around £700 more than American made Teslas.. why? They are made better and the battery tech (LFP) is also better.
They ARE "Better made".
BUT
The "LFP (LiFePO4) Battery Tech is better" myth is just that. It's DIFFERENT and SOMETIMES more SUITABLE, but "BETTER" is the wrong term.
Add that new variations and refinements of BOTH or rather ALL chemistry and material types are "moving the goalposts" daily, to the extent that "WE" don't really have a clue.
@rogerstarkey5390 no Myth. Really, no myths.
My MG5 52KWh battery 8s now on 151600 fault free miles. It is an NMC battery but is holding up well. Range? Maybe I have lost 5 miles? No more.
Two legends in the automotive industry 👍
A two for one special. Awesome show! It would be fantastic to see Sandy come to Sydney in March, to see the Chinese vehicles.
Nikki at Transport Evolved did a make by make breakdown on Q2 EV sales 2 days ago. The Republican/Petroleum cabal is in full swing trying to kill EVs....but sales are still rising
What? The Democrats don't take money from the petroleum industry? You and Niki, if Niki said that, are a joke.
And the crazy part is Elon Musk is paying them millions of dollars!
Elon said he hadn't given millions at all. More of your leftist news to confuse the sheepses'.!
So why republican/petroleum cabul? More cnn sheep news? I vote R and we love ev everything.
I have never listened to Sandy before.. but I thoroughly enjoyed this episode.. the man knows what he's talking about..very honest and straight forward.. he is quite a character.. awesome 👍👌
It's great to hear Sandy's opinion. As he says, Im too old to care what other people think.
The funniest thing about money-manager capitalism(dubbed by Minsky) is the text book case for it is called "Dodge v. Ford Motor Co."
This Sandy guy is awesome!
Robert and Sandy brilliant thanks I love cut to the crap highly qualified opinion . so rare as Sandy repeated. He talked about CNN, we have similar b/s mongers ie GB news et al .. Sandy’s insights firmly kicks em into touch .. more please
Our media are all as bad as GB News - all of them, from The Grauniad to The Mirror, to the Torygraph to The Sun, to The BBC, to Channel 4, and all the others.
All scum.
Sandy is such a throwback 🤣
daamn Sandy :)) stole the show for me. What. a. rant. @Rogan.... or @Lex, there is a man, who you guys, i think, you could be inviting soon. And kudos to Robert for giving the stage
Nixon invited Mao to corporate to defeat Soviet Union and the U.S. finally did. Otherwise U.S. wouldn't have enjoy hegemony.That's history.
Sandy is bloody awesome!
Cheers guys
17:50 gotta screw those workers into the ground for the higher profits Sandy!
Ironic. You even pointed out that one of the reasons that Chinese costs are lower is because firms accept lower profits than western investors will.
Is a bit less pay for the CEO really such a bad thing?
@@4203105 that's relevant but the real money is going to the shareholders.
He lilterally explains how labor cost isn't the primary factor, but OK.
@@patreekotime4578 I am just noticing what he is saying about how western workers are lazy.
Labor is a relatively small percentage, then why don't they pay better wages
Put tariffs on Chinese cars? No, make better cars.
Geely will become the new VW group.🎉
they have beautiful design!
Isn’t it basically already? Except for profit?
Geely is more like Stellantis, which manages more than a dozen brands. (geely, Lynk & Co, zeekr, volvo, Polestar, Proton, Lotus , smart.....)
BYD is more like Toyota and Volkswagen.
They are very underfunded. Had to get China petroleum company and CCP funds to purchase Volvo at fire sale rates, and Polestar has failed.
Can you do a Toronto show please? Why should the west coast get all the fun? I'd be among the fiest to buy tickets
The Chinese respected Munro and got better. While the Americans are busy overpricing their cars.
9:38 that’s gold😂