I'm thinking of getting a CC tuba once I save up enough since I really excelled on BBb. Your comparison video really helped, I loved that you can immediately tell how the CC tuba had a more rounded sound, especially in them lows!
I think the rotor provides a brightness and zip to the Wagner that the C rounds out and broadens. It’s a color that I would choose for sure (Bb rotor) both sound excellent!
Steve, you make both horns sound very beautiful, the CC has a very stable, vibrant and solid sound. But the BBb has a golden ring and a kind of craziness in the sound that makes it quite special, IMO. Also, I like the very similar overtones to the trombones, whenever I have a BBb tuba playing next to me at the orchestra, I feel that it makes me sound better on my bass trom!!
@@steverosseyoutubechannel5999 A great observation. The BBb has the same overtone series as the trombones. Intonation is less of a problem than with the CCs. German orchestras have used BBbs since forever. The debate continues, but I think the difference is not significant. The player is the one who determines how the instrument sounds.
You make a lot of excellent points and play well. The Dallas Symphony Orchestra had Everett Gilmore for decades and he only played BBb. (anyone can correct me, but I did talk to Everett a few times) I think ultimately it is which horn fits the performer. I think you were incredibly lucky to have someone help you select a horn. I lament the old days where you could go to a pro shop, try various makes, and then when you settle on make, models, then on model, which particular one fit you the best. I always advise people to pick a horn that is easiest for them to play and make the sound they are looking for. And how much time could we spend just on mouthpiece selection? There is a big debate on finish for the horn, but in talking to Carl Klienstuber of Denton Big brass (you can see him in Wessex demos - has a beard) he said he couldn't tell a difference and the tuba has been his life. So? I have used different mouthpieces depending on what was being played. I had, for a while, a Wessex Grand which was a CC type tuba, but in BBb. I could play it well for about an hour or so, but it wore me out trying to control it. I have an ancient York 3v BBb and that has often been a go to, and while I have primarily used it for fox trot and hot jazz and some polka band, I have used it in classical settings. That horn is not that centered on pitch, but, I can then push the pitch a bit for whatever is going around me. With the variety of horns and mouthpieces and the variance in players themselves, and then in what style music... perhaps it is start with the horn that gives you the most flexibility and easiest to play within the context of the music you perform. I watched your presentation and was rewarded with someone who could play both well and had good examples of both. (didn't even go into valve types did I...) It was curiosity that drew me. Full disclosure, I can't go back and forth between C/BBb fingerings. Not that smart. I have played CCs in practice just to see if I wanted to take it on. Another thing that could also go into the conversation which you mention is horn size. I tried a number of 3/4 sized instruments recently and the Yamaha 620 (BBb) was the winner, but I am not ready for one yet (when I am older and weaker then sell all and buy one). First horn I had was a 20J and I recently bought a restored 24J (40 yrs later) that I need to review (both recording and upright bells). I haven't looked at all your vids yet, but 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 also come into the equation. I am then left with what I usually say, which is try them (and for as much time as possible) and see what fits. And make the horn comfortable to hold and play - that enters into as well. When we get to tubas, then that is a bigger consideration than it would be on a trombone. This video popped up in my feed today. Thanks for making it.
I switched to CC in 1975 when I went to university and never looked back. Although, I occasionally play my Eb just to keep my wits sharp. It was built in 1918, so it's not in tune with anything from the A 440 era.
Is there any chance that you could do a similar video to this in a larger room? I think both tubas sound very constricted based on the acoustics of the room. Especially that large BBb, the sound just aches to get out and reverberate. I think that's something that always drives me crazy about the really big tubas is how different sound in a small space than in a bigger space. On the BBb, the low register sounds a little choked, there's a phase-shifty growliness that isn't really the same as it is in a large space. I know those tubas actually have an enormous and open sound, and that's just not coming through on the video very clearly. Also, it kind of makes the inherent fluffiness of the CC exacerbated as well. There's obviously the limitation of recording sound on your phone or whatever as well. That's a lot of words basically to say I know you're a great player, and I have zero faults with your playing... but that room is not doing anybody any favors, especially to compare the sounds of two different tubas to each other. I mean all of this in full respect, and If you don't like my opinion just remember, you asked for it. :-) j/k lol tub4s rool
Id like to see the Miraphone 186 BBb and CC comparison video like this. I bet there's not much difference. 6/4 & 5/4 horns are just too hard to keep clean.
Would you turn up the gain on your microphone when speaking please? I could hear the tubas well, but had trouble hearing your voice. Loved your playing!
Achei ambas maravilhosas, tenho a impressão que na tuba em dó o som fica pouco mais declarado, não sei se tô me expressando bem, e na em Sí bemol parece que o som fica grande. Mas enfim, nenhuma diferença gritante na minha opinião.
Good video, this is a topic that gets discussed a lot but information is scattered and inconsistent. I often hear people saying you need a C tuba for orchestra, when in most other contexts (in Canada) we would play Bb. But rarely has anyone been able to properly demonstrate the sound and feel differences that actually inform that preference.
Good review. Thank you. But there are a few points critical to the tuba BBb, and also C. Contrabass tuba C-flat, has technical characteristics, such as the Bore size. You can also play a 3/4 size B-flat tuba, but the result will be weak. And one more thing, the B-flat tuba has a very good tone, low tone, fat tone, under certain conditions: size 4/4, and above, a properly matched mouthpiece. The tuba Do (C) is not inferior to the tuba B-flat, and in some ways even surpasses it, just by the stable tone and pure intonation.
As a beginner on the tuba, I found this interesting. I just obtained an 'old' Conn 20J via eBay, and I specifically wanted a BBb because I like playing low notes and wanted to get a contrabass, and I also have a euphonium and a trombone, so I wanted a tuba having fingering essentially identical to that of the euphonium and 'parallel' (perhaps not the best wording) to that of the trombone. I also own a trumpet and a clarinet, so my 'world' is mostly in the key of Bb (although having the trumpet makes we want to press a valve on the euphonium and tuba to play a Bb). FWIW I also own a string bass, so this BBb tuba plays in a similar range. It's my understanding that this Conn BBb is excellent for obtaining the false/induced tones, which will allow a continuous range to the bottom of the piano keyboard and below (when I become sufficiently skilled to reach them!) I'm hoping that soon I can play this tuba as well as the man in this video is playing: ruclips.net/video/nc0L7EOkFUo/видео.html
20Js and 24Js rock. I sadly sold my 24J; these old bones didn't like totin' it around. Playing a Holton 345 York copy now. Good bass sound but less attack for funk work than the 24J. Easier to carry around though.
Thanks Steve. Most interesting and you confirmed some of beliefs re CC & BBb. I noticed you used different mouthpieces in your demo.. Are they very different ? Thanks. Neville
BBflat all day!!! especially when the composer calls for the BIG GUNS!!! WE ELECTRIFIED THE AUDIENCE WITH 4 bbFLATS making the chords in Mahlers 2nd "dont need no organs!!" LOL
Yes I had to make the switch too, to get into ASU (it was Vaughan Williams Concerto on BBb or CC!). BUT: Marching Band! The ASU Sundevel MB kept my BBb chops up. Thx for sharing Pat!
Very interesting! Do you find that you can play in certain keys better on one tuba over the other due to fingering differences and does that affect which tuba you pick?
Yes Andy, especially in slurring up. Going up and reducing valves is easier than going up and adding valves. So playing a slurred BBb to CC for example is easier on a CC tuba.
Thanks for sharing. My wife and bass trombonist both like the CC better, but the BBb has its place too! Also, every player and every environment is different.
I’ve been playing a miraphone 190 Kaiser b flat in my orchestra this season. We are a part time, per service professional orchestra. I noticed on our recordings from last season that my Eastman 836 York model is so smooth and blended, I was losing my unique voice. I realize this is most likely just a deficiency with the player. I can definitely hear mystery now on recordings, with a little more growly bite to the sound. Just enough to be a unique voice from the basses. Definitely harder to sound clean on the miraphone, but in context with the orchestra, I’m liking it.
![[Explained] Keys of Tubas](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VKXx7JqBIro/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm thinking of getting a CC tuba once I save up enough since I really excelled on BBb. Your comparison video really helped, I loved that you can immediately tell how the CC tuba had a more rounded sound, especially in them lows!
So good thank you. Just getting back into concert band after 15 years break using a BBb.
Thank you for starting off with a direct comparison back to back, made understanding the rest very clear when you can go back to a direct reference.
I think the rotor provides a brightness and zip to the Wagner that the C rounds out and broadens. It’s a color that I would choose for sure (Bb rotor) both sound excellent!
Steve, you make both horns sound very beautiful, the CC has a very stable, vibrant and solid sound. But the BBb has a golden ring and a kind of craziness in the sound that makes it quite special, IMO. Also, I like the very similar overtones to the trombones, whenever I have a BBb tuba playing next to me at the orchestra, I feel that it makes me sound better on my bass trom!!
I always ask the person next to me (bass trombonist) what they like best, we are a team!
@@steverosseyoutubechannel5999 A great observation. The BBb has the same overtone series as the trombones. Intonation is less of a problem than with the CCs. German orchestras have used BBbs since forever. The debate continues, but I think the difference is not significant. The player is the one who determines how the instrument sounds.
You make a lot of excellent points and play well. The Dallas Symphony Orchestra had Everett Gilmore for decades and he only played BBb. (anyone can correct me, but I did talk to Everett a few times) I think ultimately it is which horn fits the performer. I think you were incredibly lucky to have someone help you select a horn. I lament the old days where you could go to a pro shop, try various makes, and then when you settle on make, models, then on model, which particular one fit you the best. I always advise people to pick a horn that is easiest for them to play and make the sound they are looking for. And how much time could we spend just on mouthpiece selection? There is a big debate on finish for the horn, but in talking to Carl Klienstuber of Denton Big brass (you can see him in Wessex demos - has a beard) he said he couldn't tell a difference and the tuba has been his life. So? I have used different mouthpieces depending on what was being played. I had, for a while, a Wessex Grand which was a CC type tuba, but in BBb. I could play it well for about an hour or so, but it wore me out trying to control it. I have an ancient York 3v BBb and that has often been a go to, and while I have primarily used it for fox trot and hot jazz and some polka band, I have used it in classical settings. That horn is not that centered on pitch, but, I can then push the pitch a bit for whatever is going around me. With the variety of horns and mouthpieces and the variance in players themselves, and then in what style music... perhaps it is start with the horn that gives you the most flexibility and easiest to play within the context of the music you perform. I watched your presentation and was rewarded with someone who could play both well and had good examples of both. (didn't even go into valve types did I...) It was curiosity that drew me. Full disclosure, I can't go back and forth between C/BBb fingerings. Not that smart. I have played CCs in practice just to see if I wanted to take it on. Another thing that could also go into the conversation which you mention is horn size. I tried a number of 3/4 sized instruments recently and the Yamaha 620 (BBb) was the winner, but I am not ready for one yet (when I am older and weaker then sell all and buy one). First horn I had was a 20J and I recently bought a restored 24J (40 yrs later) that I need to review (both recording and upright bells). I haven't looked at all your vids yet, but 4/4, 5/4, 6/4 also come into the equation. I am then left with what I usually say, which is try them (and for as much time as possible) and see what fits. And make the horn comfortable to hold and play - that enters into as well. When we get to tubas, then that is a bigger consideration than it would be on a trombone. This video popped up in my feed today. Thanks for making it.
Excellent demonstration!! Must watch; student or professional
I switched to CC in 1975 when I went to university and never looked back. Although, I occasionally play my Eb just to keep my wits sharp. It was built in 1918, so it's not in tune with anything from the A 440 era.
This former Tubist thanks you Mucho for posting this! Liked and subbed!
Is there any chance that you could do a similar video to this in a larger room? I think both tubas sound very constricted based on the acoustics of the room. Especially that large BBb, the sound just aches to get out and reverberate. I think that's something that always drives me crazy about the really big tubas is how different sound in a small space than in a bigger space.
On the BBb, the low register sounds a little choked, there's a phase-shifty growliness that isn't really the same as it is in a large space. I know those tubas actually have an enormous and open sound, and that's just not coming through on the video very clearly. Also, it kind of makes the inherent fluffiness of the CC exacerbated as well. There's obviously the limitation of recording sound on your phone or whatever as well.
That's a lot of words basically to say I know you're a great player, and I have zero faults with your playing... but that room is not doing anybody any favors, especially to compare the sounds of two different tubas to each other.
I mean all of this in full respect, and If you don't like my opinion just remember, you asked for it. :-) j/k lol tub4s rool
Very well said. You said that much better than I could. More articulate than me, as well.
I like the c tuba most.
But they are both awesome instruments. ❤
Real cannons !!!
This was cool to watch!
Id like to see the Miraphone 186 BBb and CC comparison video like this. I bet there's not much difference. 6/4 & 5/4 horns are just too hard to keep clean.
Yes, I should shine these up! I used to play unlacquered, dirty tubas can look mean!
@@steverosseyoutubechannel5999 Clean, as in articulate as you mention in the video sorry...not Actually clean haha!
Very close....I rather and I play a Bb tuba however I will follow your advice and have both
Thank you so much for this content! Are there any best practices/pointers for learning new fingerings when switching between the two? Thanks again.
Would you turn up the gain on your microphone when speaking please? I could hear the tubas well, but had trouble hearing your voice. Loved your playing!
Achei ambas maravilhosas, tenho a impressão que na tuba em dó o som fica pouco mais declarado, não sei se tô me expressando bem, e na em Sí bemol parece que o som fica grande. Mas enfim, nenhuma diferença gritante na minha opinião.
Good video, this is a topic that gets discussed a lot but information is scattered and inconsistent. I often hear people saying you need a C tuba for orchestra, when in most other contexts (in Canada) we would play Bb. But rarely has anyone been able to properly demonstrate the sound and feel differences that actually inform that preference.
Ever get your hands on the 6/4 Rudy? Isn't it overpowering? Try the B&S MRP either?
Definitely my favorite is Bb flat tuba, because I play and love her so much.
BBb is the primary orchestral/ band tuba in your country?
Don’t care, love your playing either way ( but I’m a Eb nerd ) depends on key of chart 🎉
Good review. Thank you. But there are a few points critical to the tuba BBb, and also C. Contrabass tuba C-flat, has technical characteristics, such as the Bore size. You can also play a 3/4 size B-flat tuba, but the result will be weak. And one more thing, the B-flat tuba has a very good tone, low tone, fat tone, under certain conditions: size 4/4, and above, a properly matched mouthpiece.
The tuba Do (C) is not inferior to the tuba B-flat, and in some ways even surpasses it, just by the stable tone and pure intonation.
CC better projection clearer tone
Q hermosa tuba me encantaría poder tener una de esas saludos desde argentina
As a beginner on the tuba, I found this interesting. I just obtained an 'old' Conn 20J via eBay, and I specifically wanted a BBb because I like playing low notes and wanted to get a contrabass, and I also have a euphonium and a trombone, so I wanted a tuba having fingering essentially identical to that of the euphonium and 'parallel' (perhaps not the best wording) to that of the trombone. I also own a trumpet and a clarinet, so my 'world' is mostly in the key of Bb (although having the trumpet makes we want to press a valve on the euphonium and tuba to play a Bb). FWIW I also own a string bass, so this BBb tuba plays in a similar range. It's my understanding that this Conn BBb is excellent for obtaining the false/induced tones, which will allow a continuous range to the bottom of the piano keyboard and below (when I become sufficiently skilled to reach them!)
I'm hoping that soon I can play this tuba as well as the man in this video is playing: ruclips.net/video/nc0L7EOkFUo/видео.html
20Js and 24Js rock. I sadly sold my 24J; these old bones didn't like totin' it around. Playing a Holton 345 York copy now. Good bass sound but less attack for funk work than the 24J. Easier to carry around though.
Thanks Steve. Most interesting and you confirmed some of beliefs re CC & BBb. I noticed you used different mouthpieces in your demo.. Are they very different ? Thanks. Neville
Hello Neville, same mouthpiece, PT 86. Thanks for watching the video!
BBflat all day!!! especially when the composer calls for the BIG GUNS!!! WE ELECTRIFIED THE AUDIENCE WITH 4 bbFLATS making the chords in Mahlers 2nd "dont need no organs!!" LOL
yes the lower the better
Steve I like the sound of the CC. When I was in school you had to make the switch Now it is a different ball game.
Yes I had to make the switch too, to get into ASU (it was Vaughan Williams Concerto on BBb or CC!). BUT: Marching Band! The ASU Sundevel MB kept my BBb chops up. Thx for sharing Pat!
I love the Bb tuba but C tuba is the tuba of choice in america 😩
I like whatever’s lower
Dang both horns sound great but that R Meinl speaks to me
Thanks Stephen, yup it speaks! It is also a lot of work to play clean. Thank you for watching!
@@steverosseyoutubechannel5999 Isn't the Meinl tuba a lot more expensive?
@@jerrybyers2172 It must be, I have not checked the prices in years! I remember buying mine for 5-6K back in the late 80's
Great. Thanks
I looks big can those be used in marching band
I have a EEb only Eb and Bb are allowed
Very interesting! Do you find that you can play in certain keys better on one tuba over the other due to fingering differences and does that affect which tuba you pick?
Yes Andy, especially in slurring up. Going up and reducing valves is easier than going up and adding valves. So playing a slurred BBb to CC for example is easier on a CC tuba.
For me the sound of the C Tuba is more clear, I prefer C Tuba
This video is fantastic, thank you!
more like it coming, thanks for wathing!
Great presentation.
Thank you maestro!
Yes. The Meinl would beat least 3X that amount now.
Probably. We are ending lockdown tomorrow. I will love to visit Rudi in his home factory asap!
for me Cc Tuba
Thanks for sharing. My wife and bass trombonist both like the CC better, but the BBb has its place too! Also, every player and every environment is different.
I’ve been playing a miraphone 190 Kaiser b flat in my orchestra this season. We are a part time, per service professional orchestra. I noticed on our recordings from last season that my Eastman 836 York model is so smooth and blended, I was losing my unique voice. I realize this is most likely just a deficiency with the player. I can definitely hear mystery now on recordings, with a little more growly bite to the sound. Just enough to be a unique voice from the basses. Definitely harder to sound clean on the miraphone, but in context with the orchestra, I’m liking it.
BB tuba wins because thats the tuba I play and its big so yea
Thank you, great comparison, much appreciated!
Steve, sound very beautiful,… bur Shostakovich is not Russian , he was Soviet - little but diference