This might be overkill, but if you think over time your end mills might dent the touch plate, maybe add some randomization to your macro for exactly where the tool touches down, to preserve the life of the plate. Awesome project though!
Fortunately it touches down so slowly that it has, so far, yet to leave any kind of visible mark on the shiny copper surface. I do have a plan if it does become slightly marred, though. I can re-face the whole assembly (in place) if it ever needs cleaned up. :)
When I was working (retired now) we had a little sensor block for setting tool hight. powered by a 9 volt battery it had a brass top that was spring loaded (top could move down 1/2", great for Monday morning settings). We marked it's height on the side and set everything up using a ground rod reference tool. Had a plug on the side that we could use a cable to connect to ground when Milling non conductive material.
thank you for this BUT!!! this is your first video in over a month! and I was hoping to see part 2 of Making an Electric Casting Furnace as I liked Making an Electric Casting Furnace: Part 1 BUT NO PART TWO
nice video. I see you are using a drill chuck attached to your spindle via the .5in that you mentioned in the comments. what's your minimum rpm? my spindle is 6000 which is way too fast.
+Cut and Carve it's about 6,000. I did the drilling in the video at that, you just plunge pretty fast. (But not too fast or you won't have the torque) ;)
ok... i have questions. 1) What software are you using for your interface (p1 / p2 macros?) 2) I'm assuming that the mounting system for the optoisolator is DIN? If not, what is it? 3) Where can i get those optoisolators 4) Where can i get the beam-break sensors?
1) UCCNC I had to make my own macros and I just assigned them to the buttons since I don't know what the original P1 and P2 even do... 2) Correct 3&4) Ebay The opto is a Continental brand but any fast switching opto that works with your voltage would work equally well. The beam-break sensor is a Keyence FS-N series but they make a TON of sensors that would also work equally well.
hi, I'm late to the party, but where do you get the optical part of your nice build? I want to build something similar and am in search of something like this! thanks in advance
I wish! Unfortunately without feedback on the exact speed the spindle is running, you wouldn't know how fast to move the axis and would either destroy the threads or break the taps. I do hope to one day get a spindle with an encoder so I can do rigid tapping though.
I just automatically assumed you would be able to mount an encoder to your existing spindle and make that work. But that might not be worth the effort ? You want a new spindle with more torque at the same time as an encoder I suppose ?
It could be done, but I don't think there is a place to put an encoder without modifying the motor housing. It's definitely possible, others have done it. I just haven't looked into it since tapping is pretty low on my priority list at the moment. Right now I really need an enclosure so I can quit having to pick bits of metal out of everything I own, lol.
just so you know, the angle of the spot drill needs to be greater than the angle of the drills you are using. Starting with the edges of the drill is not good and will wear the edges faster
I am working on getting my tormach to do a tool breakage detection before a tool change, any idea how the macro should work? Possibly interested in writing one.? If it works good I’ll throw you some $
I feel like it looks to be more wasteful than it is since you aren't the only one to bring it up... I did the math and I wasted approx. $0.31 (scrap price) of copper, lol.
Yea, I really do need to get a band saw (not the old, rickety Craftsman wood band saw I happen to have) so I can cut metals to an appropriate size. Of course, then I need some space for all the offcuts, lol.
Hey there, great video, just a quick question: Probing on most DIY CNCs I've seen required a cable or small clamp to be attached to the Endmill you're trying to probe. How did you get around that? I can't see any second cable in the video closing the circuit.
The negative rail of the DC power supply is grounded to the machine chassis. The +5v goes to the plate which is insulated by that big block of plastic. So, when the machine touches it, the circuit is complete.
I wouldn't have kept the scrap piece so I didn't give it any thought. Plus I don't have a good way of cutting up something like that so I wasn't about to hassle with it.
I guess I'm a hoarder of scraps! I also didn't notice the other comment. To me its not on a value of metal but when I need a piece that size and cant find one its rather difficult for me to just run out and purchase a piece.
are you using fusion for the cam? you need to lead in from the side of parts if you can, when you machined the plastic it would have been faster and easier on the cutters. also look for tool stay down, you have a few random retracts. if i remember this is all in the linking tab.
+EFormance Engineering Its a Keyence FS-N series. Not sure what model specifically but they have a lot of models for PNP, NPN, etc. It's just the one I had so I used it, lol.
Home CNC Stuff yes, but it would need to be rotating to get an accurate diameter setting and would need reference to maintain proper diameters probed for each tool. meaning it would first require knowing the centerline of the spindle in relation to the trip point of the beam sensors. so perhaps you would use a centered and true 1/2" precision gauge rod in the spindle that has been tried and use it as a reference to locate the spindle centerline. once that is known all other tool measurements would be referenced off that coordinate to record the new took diameter. this method is used on high end machines to record accurate tool size for wear or imperfect OD grinding from the manufacturer and still attain proper tolerance. it does require the tool path to be controlled I side the controller and not in the cam, or for a wear offset to be used to amend the tool path for the difference in the calculated kinematics for the new diameter.
+Home CNC Stuff Perhaps, definitely worth a try someday. I thought about adding a conductive plate on the side and doing the same thing I'm doing now with the height. Get a rough position with the sensor and then move to the plate; while rotating the tool.
@@SmallShopConcepts Not necessarily- you can simply keep track of your values and then use them when you're doing your programming. Just about every CAM program out there supports tool libraries, and even if you don't have a toolchanger you'll be good to go so long as you can manage to remember which tool is #1, #2, etc.
I have seen these with springs so you don't break your tool. Also, if you don't have a probe, why not have all 3 axis hit a spring loaded cube with 3 sides x,y,z spring loaded.
Chris DePrisco not sure what plastic you've used, but seeing as it's sitting on your table, and therefore the z height of it is table - tool setter, of the tool setter expands a little, your tool setting relative to the table will be off by however much is expanded.
Travis Hammond Ah, I'm only referencing the first tool I set, not the actual position from the bed so as long as there aren't any wild temp swings while I'm machining the part it shouldn't matter much. As far as I've thought out anyway.
Hey David. You'd be much better served by the guy I got them from originally. Mine are modified to work with my setup and I honestly don't recall how they work. Look for "UCCNC Macro sharing" on cnczone.com. I just used the M31 code he provides.
How is it compared to Mach? would you consider it more user friendly? does it have a really large forum/Source of help? I barely manage to make my Automatic tool changer work.. but is just really harsh to find people that actually have experience... "Tons of companies willing to write a macro for a few thousands DO!!!!
I haven't used mach but it definitely is pretty customizable. There's a small community of people on the forums to help and the guy behind the software posts a lot. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find something it can't do, but you will likely need to program your own stuff; but there's tons of example macros to copy. Plus the guy who runs the US distribution is really helpful (cnc4pc.com). I'm just starting to look into using its built in Modbus functionality to have it interface with an Arduino which should make it virtually limitless in its functionality.
I have actually purchased a few infrared motion sensors from that place, good products, but when I try to get a few questions answer the guy took almost two weeks to answer.. really good products!! even do now when ever I need that type of switches I just brake a part a printer and get them for free..Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions wish you the best,
Looking awesome man! Been wanting to make one of these for a while too, glad to see it working so well. By the way, It looks like your peck drilling cycle has some kind of issue I remember having a while back, where it doesn't rapid back down to the bottom of the hole after the retract. It rapids out and feeds all the way back down the hole. This forum post has the updated m830.m1s macro that should fix this problem- www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15205.msg101682.html#msg101682 It will drill insanely faster if you fix it!
Very cool man, thanks! That's always kind of bugged me but I haven't ever done enough drilling to for it to bother me enough to figure it out. I'll take a look.
you can tap the untapped holes for the screws intoo the copper plate bigger as the tread the screws holding the plate to the base mount intoo , that way you can unscrew the plate from the base put some bigger screws intoo the tread in the plate and have sumting to hold on to if the plate needs to be removed but is stuck in the base or use the force of the screws turning intoo the copper to force it up looking at the setup if you move the tool intoo the light trap from the side you should be able to automate the tools width intoo the program too (set center of the chuck straight over the trap in the program and any deviation from that is tool width)
_facepalm_ My complaint isn't that you could have used the extra copper, or the amount it's worth. You're beating the fuck out of your end mill and sending vibrations through every part of your machine with that chatter.
"now for the moment of truth ... rapid down to z zero" ... nerve racking !
nice job.
I was like omg what is he doing ? Waooo It works. :O
Yea that literally gave me goose bumps when I saw that.
This might be overkill, but if you think over time your end mills might dent the touch plate, maybe add some randomization to your macro for exactly where the tool touches down, to preserve the life of the plate.
Awesome project though!
Fortunately it touches down so slowly that it has, so far, yet to leave any kind of visible mark on the shiny copper surface.
I do have a plan if it does become slightly marred, though. I can re-face the whole assembly (in place) if it ever needs cleaned up. :)
Are you willing to share a part number on that Beam break detector? Thanks!
Keyence Fiber Units. The exact model numbers are in the catalogs.
When I was working (retired now) we had a little sensor block for setting tool hight. powered by a 9 volt battery it had a brass top that was spring loaded (top could move down 1/2", great for Monday morning settings). We marked it's height on the side and set everything up using a ground rod reference tool. Had a plug on the side that we could use a cable to connect to ground when Milling non conductive material.
This is beyond therapeutic, Great video!
Nice job!
Can you utilise the light sensor for tool diameter probing/tool wear probing? Would it be accurate/repeatable enough?
Yeah, this is exactly the question I came here to ask.
thank you for this
BUT!!!
this is your first video in over a month!
and I was hoping to see part 2 of Making an Electric Casting Furnace as I liked Making an Electric Casting Furnace: Part 1
BUT NO PART TWO
Don't worry it's coming, lol. I haven't finished it up yet but I did at least get it running so stay tuned!
This is great! Nice work Chris
It's nice that your background music is nice and relaxing. I really enjoy your video making style. Please keep it up!
nice video. I see you are using a drill chuck attached to your spindle via the .5in that you mentioned in the comments. what's your minimum rpm? my spindle is 6000 which is way too fast.
+Cut and Carve it's about 6,000. I did the drilling in the video at that, you just plunge pretty fast. (But not too fast or you won't have the torque) ;)
just curious, what kind of diameter accuracy and repeatability did you end up getting on your setup?
Tiny wrenches! What an understatement! I hate crescent wrenches aka buckle busters!!! Love your work!
ok... i have questions.
1) What software are you using for your interface (p1 / p2 macros?)
2) I'm assuming that the mounting system for the optoisolator is DIN? If not, what is it?
3) Where can i get those optoisolators
4) Where can i get the beam-break sensors?
1) UCCNC I had to make my own macros and I just assigned them to the buttons since I don't know what the original P1 and P2 even do...
2) Correct
3&4) Ebay
The opto is a Continental brand but any fast switching opto that works with your voltage would work equally well. The beam-break sensor is a Keyence FS-N series but they make a TON of sensors that would also work equally well.
Sweet, thanks :) Just didn't recognize the GUI of the software. I'll be searching for those break-beam switches too !
Great project :)
I got mine from a scrapped project but looking at them on ebay I had no idea they went so cheaply! Definitely worth the $25 or so.
hi,
I'm late to the party, but where do you get the optical part of your nice build? I want to build something similar and am in search of something like this!
thanks in advance
Nice work as always. Just wonder about all the hand-tapping: Wouldn't it be worthwhile to rig up the spindle so you can power-tap with the CNC ?
I wish! Unfortunately without feedback on the exact speed the spindle is running, you wouldn't know how fast to move the axis and would either destroy the threads or break the taps. I do hope to one day get a spindle with an encoder so I can do rigid tapping though.
I just automatically assumed you would be able to mount an encoder to your existing spindle and make that work. But that might not be worth the effort ? You want a new spindle with more torque at the same time as an encoder I suppose ?
It could be done, but I don't think there is a place to put an encoder without modifying the motor housing. It's definitely possible, others have done it. I just haven't looked into it since tapping is pretty low on my priority list at the moment. Right now I really need an enclosure so I can quit having to pick bits of metal out of everything I own, lol.
You don't seem to talk about the purpose of the optical unit or what it does. I guess it is to get a close approximation.
Jeff Beck i see this for fast tool aproximation to reduce time in tool set
just so you know, the angle of the spot drill needs to be greater than the angle of the drills you are using. Starting with the edges of the drill is not good and will wear the edges faster
So few people follow this principle- even at the trade school I attend instructors don’t know this!
I am working on getting my tormach to do a tool breakage detection before a tool change, any idea how the macro should work? Possibly interested in writing one.? If it works good I’ll throw you some $
what laser module and sensor did you use?
Looks like you wasted quite a bit of that copper stock. Pretty sweet though.
I feel like it looks to be more wasteful than it is since you aren't the only one to bring it up... I did the math and I wasted approx. $0.31 (scrap price) of copper, lol.
Chris DePrisco you know what your doing, just looked like you could have saved a slice off the side was all (I ain't bitching, just saying).
Yea, I really do need to get a band saw (not the old, rickety Craftsman wood band saw I happen to have) so I can cut metals to an appropriate size. Of course, then I need some space for all the offcuts, lol.
Chris DePrisco no need to keep all the drops if they aren’t useful - scrap dealers typically pay more for solid.
Good build man! I need to make one!
which sensors are you using?
Fantastic! Great result
Hey there, great video, just a quick question: Probing on most DIY CNCs I've seen required a cable or small clamp to be attached to the Endmill you're trying to probe. How did you get around that? I can't see any second cable in the video closing the circuit.
The negative rail of the DC power supply is grounded to the machine chassis. The +5v goes to the plate which is insulated by that big block of plastic. So, when the machine touches it, the circuit is complete.
I hope the plate never electrically fails. For the sake of your bits.
NIce job , i use a fixed probing , and i am wondering if u can share ur probing macros .
Thanks.
Why not cut the copper down prior to machining all that off? get rid of the chatter and still have a solid scrap chunk for something else later.
I wouldn't have kept the scrap piece so I didn't give it any thought. Plus I don't have a good way of cutting up something like that so I wasn't about to hassle with it.
I guess I'm a hoarder of scraps! I also didn't notice the other comment. To me its not on a value of metal but when I need a piece that size and cant find one its rather difficult for me to just run out and purchase a piece.
+Rivers Company Right. If I had a decent place to store small scraps and a good way to cut it I totally would save them too. :)
@@ChrisDePrisco You don't own a hand hacksaw?
are you using fusion for the cam? you need to lead in from the side of parts if you can, when you machined the plastic it would have been faster and easier on the cutters. also look for tool stay down, you have a few random retracts. if i remember this is all in the linking tab.
+Simon Hills I am. I honestly didn't even look at the CAM for that op, just hit 3D adaptive and moved on. Clearly it did not do an optimal job, lol.
Chris DePrisco I'm not an expert either! just wanted to pass on what i know. Check out Rob Lockwood's video he did with John Saunders/NYCCNC
some reason the exact fit you want after a machining op is more satisfying than the fit for woodworking. tho both are really good.
What make/model is that beam break sensor?
+EFormance Engineering Its a Keyence FS-N series. Not sure what model specifically but they have a lot of models for PNP, NPN, etc. It's just the one I had so I used it, lol.
Which software are you using to operate your milling machine?
+Lars Stolz I'm using UCCNC.
Could the Beam Break Sensor be used to measure the OD of tool?
Home CNC Stuff yes, but it would need to be rotating to get an accurate diameter setting and would need reference to maintain proper diameters probed for each tool. meaning it would first require knowing the centerline of the spindle in relation to the trip point of the beam sensors. so perhaps you would use a centered and true 1/2" precision gauge rod in the spindle that has been tried and use it as a reference to locate the spindle centerline. once that is known all other tool measurements would be referenced off that coordinate to record the new took diameter. this method is used on high end machines to record accurate tool size for wear or imperfect OD grinding from the manufacturer and still attain proper tolerance. it does require the tool path to be controlled I side the controller and not in the cam, or for a wear offset to be used to amend the tool path for the difference in the calculated kinematics for the new diameter.
+Home CNC Stuff Perhaps, definitely worth a try someday. I thought about adding a conductive plate on the side and doing the same thing I'm doing now with the height. Get a rough position with the sensor and then move to the plate; while rotating the tool.
@@SmallShopConcepts Not necessarily- you can simply keep track of your values and then use them when you're doing your programming. Just about every CAM program out there supports tool libraries, and even if you don't have a toolchanger you'll be good to go so long as you can manage to remember which tool is #1, #2, etc.
I have seen these with springs so you don't break your tool. Also, if you don't have a probe, why not have all 3 axis hit a spring loaded cube with 3 sides x,y,z spring loaded.
looks very cool, but, have you thought about thermal expansion of the plastic?
oh and with the fibre optic amp, you generally need to pull the leads out about 1mm from fully pushed in
+Travis Hammond I had not thought about thermal expansion, what concern would you have? And I'll go pull out the leads a tad, thanks!
Chris DePrisco not sure what plastic you've used, but seeing as it's sitting on your table, and therefore the z height of it is table - tool setter, of the tool setter expands a little, your tool setting relative to the table will be off by however much is expanded.
Travis Hammond Ah, I'm only referencing the first tool I set, not the actual position from the bed so as long as there aren't any wild temp swings while I'm machining the part it shouldn't matter much. As far as I've thought out anyway.
Chris DePrisco ahhhhh. that's all good then.
so you'll set a tool, then set your work z then set your other tools relative to the first?
Great build video :)
nicely done sir
How were you using a drill chuck on the VMC?
+Easton Bednarek Small threaded drill chuck and a threaded to .5" straight arbor, used in a .5" collet.
Awesome I'm building a similar VMC (with my own twists) and that looks like an awesome way to use drills.
Just be careful that you don't accidentally run at 24k RPM with the chuck in -- those things are not at all balanced. :P
Would it be possible to share the UCCNC macro's for the tool please?
Hey David. You'd be much better served by the guy I got them from originally. Mine are modified to work with my setup and I honestly don't recall how they work. Look for "UCCNC Macro sharing" on cnczone.com. I just used the M31 code he provides.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction :) I found the scripts and adapted them, works great :)
Awesome!
You are using Mach3 ??
UCCNC
How is it compared to Mach? would you consider it more user friendly? does it have a really large forum/Source of help? I barely manage to make my Automatic tool changer work.. but is just really harsh to find people that actually have experience... "Tons of companies willing to write a macro for a few thousands DO!!!!
I haven't used mach but it definitely is pretty customizable. There's a small community of people on the forums to help and the guy behind the software posts a lot. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find something it can't do, but you will likely need to program your own stuff; but there's tons of example macros to copy. Plus the guy who runs the US distribution is really helpful (cnc4pc.com). I'm just starting to look into using its built in Modbus functionality to have it interface with an Arduino which should make it virtually limitless in its functionality.
I have actually purchased a few infrared motion sensors from that place, good products, but when I try to get a few questions answer the guy took almost two weeks to answer.. really good products!! even do now when ever I need that type of switches I just brake a part a printer and get them for free..Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions wish you the best,
I just swapped out my 2.2kw china spindle for a better US made air cooled one. Much more power at low RPM.
I don't understand the purpose of the opto-sensor.
Looking awesome man! Been wanting to make one of these for a while too, glad to see it working so well.
By the way, It looks like your peck drilling cycle has some kind of issue I remember having a while back, where it doesn't rapid back down to the bottom of the hole after the retract. It rapids out and feeds all the way back down the hole. This forum post has the updated m830.m1s macro that should fix this problem-
www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15205.msg101682.html#msg101682
It will drill insanely faster if you fix it!
Very cool man, thanks! That's always kind of bugged me but I haven't ever done enough drilling to for it to bother me enough to figure it out. I'll take a look.
Bom dia gosto muito do seus videos você muito bom 👍
you can tap the untapped holes for the screws intoo the copper plate bigger as the tread the screws holding the plate to the base mount intoo , that way you can unscrew the plate from the base put some bigger screws intoo the tread in the plate and have sumting to hold on to if the plate needs to be removed but is stuck in the base or use the force of the screws turning intoo the copper to force it up
looking at the setup if you move the tool intoo the light trap from the side you should be able to automate the tools width intoo the program too (set center of the chuck straight over the trap in the program and any deviation from that is tool width)
Alternative solution instead of optics is spring steel strip for first probing.
_facepalm_ My complaint isn't that you could have used the extra copper, or the amount it's worth. You're beating the fuck out of your end mill and sending vibrations through every part of your machine with that chatter.