I have been trying for ages to get my back to back turnouts to work without shorting. Your video has helped me and now I can start building. Thank you for taking your time making the video to help people like me, greatly appreciated.
Brilliant, your video is exactly what I needed. I have to fit nine, Cobalt iP analogue machines, to replace motors that don't function. Your video has enabled me to add the Cobalt motors onto turnouts that have been firmly glued down. Thank you very much.
that's the good thing about this hobby, we all have different techniques and ways of doing things, sometimes there is no right or wrong way and its the end result and enjoyment that counts, Thanks for your comment Al
Great video May I ask what DCC system are you using to control your layout I am up to installing my IP motor's So it was great to come across your video thanks again Chris
As a new modeller I shall be using the tip about surface marking, it will save the old back. Could you not mark the rod from underneath and then chop it before installing so you limit the damage to the track? I am modelling in U.K. N Gauge.
Thanks Peter, it would be fiddly, frustrating and probably involve the throwing of tools and certain cussing to try to get it in the hole of the point and into the motor and screw the tiny little screws in all at the same time.... cheers Al
I am right in the thick of this and TBH your plan to drill the mtg holes from above is the best way for alignment. With the DCC screws you do need pilot holes because if you look under a maglamp you will see the screw threads do not have alot of 'bite' Having said that, you could drop the drill bit size down to ~1.5mm so the holes are less conspicuous. You can even then not bother to remove the foam cover off as it will allow the tiniest bit of slide as you tighten the screws up. Its also a pity DCCC didnt have another way to fix the driver rod to the motor spigot since then we could drop the rod down from above with the right angle flush to the tie bar which in your case would make the installation even easier. I am also curious why your foam ballast is so thick.
Great comments and I would love it if you could drop and fix the throw bar from above but then alignment might be a problem. The track bed is the 6mm Eva foam from dcc concepts. ( though now I found it in sheet form and cut the strips, much cheaper) and that's how it came.
@@allynwoodmodelling Thanks. I also had the classic issue with the location of 2x Cobalts to drive 2x Peco Code 75 turnouts ie they were directly above frame timbers. However on v close inspection, looking from below, the Peco tie bar has the tiniest of holes under the upturn on the tie bar end and if you drill through this with a pin vice, say 0.7mm drill, the Cobalt drive rod can be pushed through and the motor mounted offset to the point. Just incase anyone encounters similar...
paredding never even realised or thought of that, I've been experimenting with the offset mounting kit DCC supply but even so wasn,t easy. Your idea would have saved me some grief Thanks
@@allynwoodmodelling I considered the same but didnt like the clumsy DCCC solution; I was going to drill it from below anyway so finding the hole already there was a bonus :-)
Thanks for the video. Very helpful. Can you help me. Why does my z21 controller short out when I connect the earth wire? Do you have to swap the polarity? How do I undertake this? Help appreciate in advance regards Ian, Swindon, UK 🇬🇧.
It sounds to me like a polarity thing, try swapping them over, not sure what you mean by the "earth" wire, as we have no earth as such... do you mean the frog wire or the bus wires .. the other factor could be an insulation problem if you havenl't isolated the rails enough... check you're insulation at the end of the points... hope that helps and hasn;t confused you instead????
Thank you Simon. You are right, I did mean the frog wire......I will check the insulators but I am pretty sure they are correct but ill look at the polarity. Great Channel and keep up the great work.
with the digital IP motors they now come with the centering off, the digitrax for some reason would not put centring back on with the command (as per the instructions) once It had been switched off to assign address. so long as the holes are central the fixation and alignment should be the same. Whichever preference people find easiest is fine by me.
When using a Dremel to cut the piano wire...be careful not to heat up the plastic of the turnout or your expensive turnout will be buggered forever and you might need to replace it. I use .032 piano wire and cut it with Xuron Wire Cutters.
Good point hope others take it on board, other point is also to not cut it too low as then it can occasionally slip out. That's why we do these videos so everyone can share and learn from each other , keep them coming
Great video, thanks for making. Quick question, I presume you power the motors off the Track power bus, rather than a separate DCC 'accessory' bus for motors/signals etc?
In this video yes, but if you do use an accessory dcc bus you need extra wiring to take the power from the track bus as well ( taken me two years of frustration to finally figure that out)
Yup...not alot of difference to the Fulgurex units I had and bought the Cobalts to replace. I don't understand why they are so noisy TBH (when you compare to an RC servo motor). One assumes its all emanating from the gear mechanism...
I did try that but tricky to get in and started as they are quite small and working on my back under the layout is not my favourite position, but cheers thanks for the comment
Can you please answer question for me.If i fitted a dapol semaphone signal at the same address would they all work together at the same time.I know the best way to fit the semaphone with dcc concepts accessory switch and relay.switch.
There are several ways to ensure correct polarity of the frog.. First ensure that wherever possible you mount the points so that the throw bar faces the same way I. Respect to the point (eg to the tail) this coupled with when wiring the points in you ensure that you use a consistent method with the colour coding , for example you may have your outer rail red the inner rail black and the red wire from your dcc bus goes into the first dcc input on the motor and the black the second. etc. if for any reason you need to mount the motor the other way change over the colour coding. Ultimately the best way to check the frog polarity post wiring is with a multimeter set to read AC and check the voltages between both the rails and the frog when the point is thrown. If you get a zero reading between one rail and the frog its the same "polarity" if you get a normal reading its the opposite "polarity". If you don,t have a multimeter then power up the track and try running a loco over it, you will soon find out if it's correct. If you find out the polarity has been reversed simply change over the two dcc bus wires on the point motor, you don,t have to require the point. Clear as mud now?????
Apologies for the delay in replying, ice been in the UK, the cobalt motors on DCC you just simply put the same address in for both motors, for example address 075 will operate both motors at the same time, you might have to play with the positive negative wires and think about the mounting, they do have the capability to reverse operation so instead of throwing the switch it closes it so if mounting is an issue due to woodwork supports or anything you can use this function
I have been trying for ages to get my back to back turnouts to work without shorting. Your video has helped me and now I can start building. Thank you for taking your time making the video to help people like me, greatly appreciated.
No problem glad it helped
Brilliant, your video is exactly what I needed. I have to fit nine, Cobalt iP analogue machines, to replace motors that don't function. Your video has enabled me to add the Cobalt motors onto turnouts that have been firmly glued down. Thank you very much.
Thanks
Excellent. I wish I had seen this before I installed 12 Cobalts! I love the idea of drilling the pilot holes from above. So simple.
Hi from Dunsborough WA, just down the road, great video useful as I'm in the process of purchasing cobalt motors.
I never glue track down, I use track pins, just in case it all has to come up later! Nevertheless an excellent video.
that's the good thing about this hobby, we all have different techniques and ways of doing things, sometimes there is no right or wrong way and its the end result and enjoyment that counts, Thanks for your comment
Al
Thank you very helpful
Glad it helped
many thanks for an in depth how to as I am starting mine this weekend, a major assist thanks also just subbed you , Paul at Sandling Junction
thanks, hope it all went well
Great video
May I ask what DCC system are you using to control your layout
I am up to installing my IP motor's
So it was great to come across your video thanks again
Chris
I use a digitrax controller, but the rest of the system is DCC Concepts, usually their "cobalt " tagged components
As a new modeller I shall be using the tip about surface marking, it will save the old back. Could you not mark the rod from underneath and then chop it before installing so you limit the damage to the track? I am modelling in U.K. N Gauge.
Thanks Peter, it would be fiddly, frustrating and probably involve the throwing of tools and certain cussing to try to get it in the hole of the point and into the motor and screw the tiny little screws in all at the same time.... cheers
Al
I am right in the thick of this and TBH your plan to drill the mtg holes from above is the best way for alignment. With the DCC screws you do need pilot holes because if you look under a maglamp you will see the screw threads do not have alot of 'bite' Having said that, you could drop the drill bit size down to ~1.5mm so the holes are less conspicuous. You can even then not bother to remove the foam cover off as it will allow the tiniest bit of slide as you tighten the screws up. Its also a pity DCCC didnt have another way to fix the driver rod to the motor spigot since then we could drop the rod down from above with the right angle flush to the tie bar which in your case would make the installation even easier. I am also curious why your foam ballast is so thick.
Great comments and I would love it if you could drop and fix the throw bar from above but then alignment might be a problem. The track bed is the 6mm Eva foam from dcc concepts. ( though now I found it in sheet form and cut the strips, much cheaper) and that's how it came.
@@allynwoodmodelling Thanks. I also had the classic issue with the location of 2x Cobalts to drive 2x Peco Code 75 turnouts ie they were directly above frame timbers. However on v close inspection, looking from below, the Peco tie bar has the tiniest of holes under the upturn on the tie bar end and if you drill through this with a pin vice, say 0.7mm drill, the Cobalt drive rod can be pushed through and the motor mounted offset to the point. Just incase anyone encounters similar...
paredding never even realised or thought of that, I've been experimenting with the offset mounting kit DCC supply but even so wasn,t easy. Your idea would have saved me some grief
Thanks
@@allynwoodmodelling I considered the same but didnt like the clumsy DCCC solution; I was going to drill it from below anyway so finding the hole already there was a bonus :-)
Thanks for the video. Very helpful. Can you help me. Why does my z21 controller short out when I connect the earth wire? Do you have to swap the polarity? How do I undertake this? Help appreciate in advance regards Ian, Swindon, UK 🇬🇧.
It sounds to me like a polarity thing, try swapping them over, not sure what you mean by the "earth" wire, as we have no earth as such... do you mean the frog wire or the bus wires .. the other factor could be an insulation problem if you havenl't isolated the rails enough... check you're insulation at the end of the points... hope that helps and hasn;t confused you instead????
Thank you Simon. You are right, I did mean the frog wire......I will check the insulators but I am pretty sure they are correct but ill look at the polarity. Great Channel and keep up the great work.
made hard work of that a lot easier to leave the centering on while installing the motors then take the centering off when fitted.
Thanks did find it much easier. Would be even easier if had another pair of hands
with the digital IP motors they now come with the centering off, the digitrax for some reason would not put centring back on with the command (as per the instructions) once It had been switched off to assign address. so long as the holes are central the fixation and alignment should be the same. Whichever preference people find easiest is fine by me.
When using a Dremel to cut the piano wire...be careful not to heat up the plastic of the turnout or your expensive turnout will be buggered forever and you might need to replace it. I use .032 piano wire and cut it with Xuron Wire Cutters.
Good point hope others take it on board, other point is also to not cut it too low as then it can occasionally slip out. That's why we do these videos so everyone can share and learn from each other , keep them coming
Great video, thanks for making. Quick question, I presume you power the motors off the Track power bus, rather than a separate DCC 'accessory' bus for motors/signals etc?
In this video yes, but if you do use an accessory dcc bus you need extra wiring to take the power from the track bus as well ( taken me two years of frustration to finally figure that out)
Very interesting and informative - noisy little buggers though aren`t they? lol
Yup...not alot of difference to the Fulgurex units I had and bought the Cobalts to replace. I don't understand why they are so noisy TBH (when you compare to an RC servo motor). One assumes its all emanating from the gear mechanism...
Yep that's one downside
Use self drilling screws from the bottom side, don't need to drill trough the whole board
I did try that but tricky to get in and started as they are quite small and working on my back under the layout is not my favourite position, but cheers thanks for the comment
Dont ever use a dremel to cut off the point thrower, its high strength steel and it will get hot and melt the point, use a good quality pair of pliers
I Can see your point but in all honesty have never had that problem.
Can you please answer question for me.If i fitted a dapol semaphone signal at the same address would they all work together at the same time.I know the best way to fit the semaphone with dcc concepts accessory switch and relay.switch.
In all honesty until tried I couldn't really answer, if you wired in the signal via the accessory switch then I get the feeling it would work
Which part of the videos covers the frog polarity test methods please
There are several ways to ensure correct polarity of the frog.. First ensure that wherever possible you mount the points so that the throw bar faces the same way I. Respect to the point (eg to the tail) this coupled with when wiring the points in you ensure that you use a consistent method with the colour coding , for example you may have your outer rail red the inner rail black and the red wire from your dcc bus goes into the first dcc input on the motor and the black the second. etc. if for any reason you need to mount the motor the other way change over the colour coding.
Ultimately the best way to check the frog polarity post wiring is with a multimeter set to read AC and check the voltages between both the rails and the frog when the point is thrown. If you get a zero reading between one rail and the frog its the same "polarity" if you get a normal reading its the opposite "polarity". If you don,t have a multimeter then power up the track and try running a loco over it, you will soon find out if it's correct.
If you find out the polarity has been reversed simply change over the two dcc bus wires on the point motor, you don,t have to require the point.
Clear as mud now?????
How did you wire up to make both point motors to work with each other
Apologies for the delay in replying, ice been in the UK, the cobalt motors on DCC you just simply put the same address in for both motors, for example address 075 will operate both motors at the same time, you might have to play with the positive negative wires and think about the mounting, they do have the capability to reverse operation so instead of throwing the switch it closes it so if mounting is an issue due to woodwork supports or anything you can use this function