Been watching your videos for ages now and it's safe to say I bought a 4x4, got into exploring, camping and touring, because of your genuine character, avoiding all the BS that most people will receive at aftermarket accessory stores. I quickly saw what is necessity and what is just wasted money if done incorrectly, so you have saved me tonnes of money that I could actually use on getting out and adventuring. Keep up the awesome vids and the no BS straight to the point content. Hard to find genuine characters these days, so stick with your good ethics as I'm sure it is appreciated by many. 😎
RONNY OLE BOY !!! I'm a 40 yr Master Tech, and this is the BEST video concerning multiple battery systems. You cover everything and you have more safety recommendations and warnings than any 2 other videos combined. This alone is worth the watch for DIYers, but you even cover all the bases (Yank term there). Keep up d'good work.
Just starting my vanlife journey and after watching dozens of videos on battery systems, this has, by far, been the most informative video I've come across. Well done! Cheers!
Thanks Ronny. Been watching you for years and gained a great deal of knowledge. No good deed goes unpunished so here ya go. Just a lil appreciation and gratitude. Enjoy!
Bit of advice from an ex mechanic. If your in your wiring buying stage use calculators, they have how much amps your going to use, how ling the wire is and voltage drop. When planning it in the calculator add 1mtr to the wire length. Try go for 1% drop. If you find it's just on the max length it's worth going up a size (down in awg number). Honestly I normally recommend doing that anyway, if something calls for 8g, go for 6 or even 4g. It'll heat up less. Less voltage loss and does allow for some future proofing.
Heat derates wiring, making it more resistive (lossy, greater volt drop, etc). Eg, you should run a bigger guage in the hottest part of the engine bay. Eg, my setup is 90A dcdc, I ran 2AWG (32 or 35mm2) between the alternator and the fuse mounted away from the heat, then 5m of 3 guage to the 2x dcdc charge controllers. Works great. Remember, heat directly near the engine, especially on the exhaust side, derates the wiring - use a bigger guage.
Or simply calculate on it your self - the resistivity of copper is quite temperature dependent, but for example at 20°C it's 0.0167 ohms for 1 mm2 wire that have 1 meter length - at 70°C, it's 0.0201 and at at 120°C, 0.0235. So, for example a 32 mm2 wire at 70° will have 0.0201 / 32 = 0.000628125 ohms per meter. Voltage drop is the resistance times current - so if 100 amps are passing thru the cable, the voltage will drop by 0.0628 volts per meter of wire. This is independent of voltage, so if you want it as a percentage, it is 0.0628 / 12 = 0.0052333... So the voltage will drop about 0.52 % per meter. And this also shows how crappy a 12 V system is at transfer power. To power for example a kettle, vacuum cleaner, induction cooking plate or what that pulls 1800 W at 12 V, the current would need to be 150 A. Now if you have 10 meters of the wire in the previous example going to it (just a 5 m cable - usually 2 leads are used), the voltage drop would be 0.942 V, or 7.85 % (which is unacceptable and the power loss would about 140 W. Power loss is voltage drop times current, so 0.942 x 150 = about 141 W of power would just heat up the cable). Now if the voltage is increased just to 24 V given that the load could handle it and deliver the same power), the current would be just 75 A - which means the voltage drop go down to half, 0.471 (1.96 %) or and the power loss in the cable drops to 35 W. Now increase the voltage even more to 48 and the voltage drop will go down to 0.49% and power loss, less than 9 W over that same cable! If the 5 m cable in the first example is upsized to for example 120 mm2, it will give 0.0201 / 120 = 0.0001675, 0.0001675 * 150 = 0.25125 V voltage drop (which is about 2.1 %) and power loss about 38 W. But such cable will use about 10.7 kg of copper (0.012 dm2 x 100 dm = 1.2 dm3 - the density of copper is about 8.9 kg/dm3 - so 1.2 x 8.9 = 10.68). That's huge to transfer a puny 1800 W. Same sizes of cable (cross section area) is used to power large industrial equipment or sometimes even overhead lines for trams and small rail vehicles - just because it's used so much more efficiently at the much higher voltages.
@Speeder84XL After reading this, l'm more confused than ever. I'm mechanically minded, so l will just get an auto electrician to do my electrical work.
I’m just getting into 4x4 & camping, iv done a 115ah kings deep cycle hooked up to an isolator not a dcdc , a half decent battery box & a second hand 50L kings fridge with a bunnings false floor, the whole set up wouldn’t have set me back more than $800 & it’s all removable with a couple of ratchet straps, does the job for beginners
I agree with heat shrink on a crimp. But not soldering, have seen alot of solder joints fail on aftermarket fitted wiring. It is easier for a beginner to get a good crimp and than heat shrink it, rather than get a good solder joint. And whatever you do.. don't crimp a soldered wire, all it does is crack the solder and doesn't allow the crimp to bite in correctly.
Agreed. It is nearly impossible to solder bigger cables, eg 35mm2 anyhow. Use a hydraulic crimper, and I usually use smaller jaws than recommended. Running 175A continuous for 40mins for a 2000w inverter test, the 35 & 50mm2 crimp lugs never got warm, ie, a very good connection.
I wired many Boats while building them, and was informed soldering wrecked the wiring causing it to harden and rust. That was evident in doing repairs with some degridation going back from the fitting 300mm or so, yes in a salty enviroment and inside the boat as well but Ive seen many vehicles showing similar corosion. A quality Crimping tool and correct sizing with heat shrink has served me well. A good tug on the connection after crimping is recommended too.
Probably One of the best videos about auxiliary battery on a Vehicle. Easy to understand even for people with lack of knowledge about car electricity Thanks for your channel
A comment on the use of crimping. I only use crimps, however my crimping tools are proper tools, not glorified pair of pliers. if the crimp has been done properly there will be no problems. Soldering is only needed if you dont trust your crimping quality.. P.S. my trade is RAAF trained aircraft elec fitter/avionics tech, 50 years experience.
Correct! Most retail crimping tools and terminals are barely adequate. Ok for simple wiring but for high current or high voltage, professional crimpers and quality terminals are essential.
Well done. I'd also like to add that people don't need to be intimidated by 12v if they don't know anything about it. It's very easy to learn and then you have the skills to diagnose, repair, modify, etc.
@gordonmclean2322 No one specific off the top of my head, but a few good searches will point you in the right direction. The trick is to find someone who explains it in a way that works for you because we all communicate in different ways. A few searches to start with would be: -How do relays work (vital for automotive) -How to calculate volts/amps/watts (so you can have appropriately sized components) -12V basics (for me, it helped when i found someone who said its just like making a circle) Once you get started you'll be able to glean new searches and away you go. Blue sea systems also has a great free app called "circuit wizard" to calculate appropriate wiring gauge. They specialize in boats but it's the same concept and they tend to lean more towards having some extra head room for safety. Hopefully this can point you in the right direction and you can find someone who communicates in a way that works for you.
The dual battery in parallel is not too bad, especially if you can isolate one with a low voltage cut out. Team that with a lithium jumper pack just in case you get it wrong and it's a decent weekender system.
In the old days, I used a dual diode battery isolator. Works great and very simple. The batteries never see each other electrically. Even a simple high current relay that parallels them only when engine is running.
If you buy a battery isolator that's meant for the purpose, it fully charges the primary vehicle battery first and then charges the auxillary battery second.
if youre on a budget or only have room for 1 battery a great option is a marine starting battery. its a hybrid design with good cranking amps and better deep cycle capabilities too. get the biggest possible size you can squeeze in there. this gives you high capacity and heavy load capability for winching. make sure the new battery has equal or greater cranking amp ratings (cold cranking amps included)
Yup, I recommend the Hawker Odyssey batteries for the starter battery - I just fitted one to another car last week. These Odyssey batteries are ultra relaiable, last10yrs, and can be repeatably deep discharged. This battery will run the winch no problem at all. Odyssey batteries are FAA approved fpr helicopters, and the small 16 ah version is widely used for rally cars and off shore jetski racing. You wont buy better for a starter battery.
very interesting, as a no power on site worker i just went with the basic battery box with built in inverter since most my tools are battery tools, this could charge them and also run my fridge. Didn't cost me more than $1000. still going strong 8-10 years later
@@trentkrikken9873 charges off the crank with an isolator, or when I get home I can run a power lead to it and charge it off the house. I’ve ran it to the back of the tray but with long enough jumper leads I can jump start my car aswell. Best value for money ever.
As a master electrician I can say, imo, you are absolutely correct. I run dual front off the alt for drive. Two 105 ah deep cycnle in the bed for camp with solar running a 2024 siera so when driving i can plug a smart charger into the built in inverter in the truck bed, to charge the deep cycles while driving.
I have been running dual batteries in my 85 model L300 4WD for the past 34 years. I built a software controlled battery linker to jump-start myself if needed. The 2nd battery runs the fridge, HF comms and AIR CTI central tyre inflation. The combination works. Usually I get 4 years out of the lead-acid 120AH aux battery.
After all these years I found what seems to be an informed opinion on a topic I've not seen covered before. I don't see multiple battery systems very often south of the Mason/Dixon line unless there's a winch setup. By the upper border there's a lot of jumping going on due to the cold weather. I'm always called to help out during this time of year. Mostly for the stereo and power tools that I can run on the pickup. For a welder I use a generator kept on a lock box.
17:35, many years ago, I had my old 1976 Hillman Hunter 1725cc Motor "die" on me, when it tossed a con rod, so, my mate Phil (a car/Truck mechanic by daytime/trade and a backyard fixit mechanic by night) sorted me out, with a similar sized, but smaller CC rated extremely high performance Toyota Sprinter's 1600 cc DOHC 5 speed gearbox, that had a much higher RPM output on it's driveline tail-shaft.. The result, a much peppier, outright responsive and ABSOLUTE "street-sleeper" I have ever seen, as it had a frontal oil pan that required us to drop the front sway bar mounts by 2" just to get the motor to sit on the hunter engine mounts, (after some slight modifications), plus the Toyota's higher revving 5th gear output, meant it was spinning the conversion driveshaft all that much more, (than the stock standard old original gearbox did), into the "we kept it" Hunter's original diff ratio. The result of that was simple, as the hunter was heavier than the Toyota Sprinter, it kept some of the increased power and rev range, slower than it normally would have been, whilst using al the extra power of the smaller cc DOHC system, and the over-dive 5th gear ratio, meaning that combined with the low ratio Hunter Diff, the car acquired the speed status of a "weak" dragster. Result: I could pull off the street intersection "lights" way faster than any previous HUNTER could achieve, whilst NEVER having to change gear between intersections, what with having the newer "outright power to the ground", ability to spin the back wheels the entire city block (if I left my foot on the "pedal/to-the/metal" thing). It would do (flat out until I got scared enough to change gears) up to 80kph in 1st, 120 kph in 2nd, 150kph in 3rd and the 4th (the Hunter only had four gears before we changed everything) could drag the car a long way BEYOND the speedo's round dial maximum of 160kph, sitting somewhere near the bottom to slightly up towards ZERO again, (meaning it was approx. 200kph at bottom of dial, and closer to 240 maxed out in 4th). THEN there was that extra gear called FIFTH (some call these an overdrive, as they spin the gearbox output shaft - faster than the main engine's crankshaft) Changing from 4th to 5th with the pedal to the metal, on very long public roads, meant a MASSIVE SURGE held one back into the seat as she literally took off. Watching an old round speedo dial, go from 0 at about 8o'clock on the dial, to pass 80hph top of dial, then when the needle went past the normal maximum (the mechanic pulled the stop-pin out of the speedo before we tested it, so left it out afterwards too) doing 160kph at the 4pm mark, to then see it continue to turn around under bottom dead center (approx. 200kph) and climb back PAST the original ZERO start point, (now doing in excess of 240kph), I can tell you - it was a shatteringly breath-taking experience, to be chased by a carload of skinheads (in a highly modified V8 with way too many of them in the car) after I had annoyed them by passing them at about 70kph in the 100kph open road area, after following them haphazardly wobble all over the road, left to right hand fog lines, as the guy in the middle front seat steered, as the driver appeared to be sleeping?), - with the ability to out-drag them the entire time, I eventually launched the hunter off the top of the hill at Evansdale - Southland NZ, on SH1, as we headed downhill towards Evansdale, passing oncoming cars while LOOKING DOWN on their rooves, and with no AIR BRAKES in the car (at two foot off the road, the wheels don't brake all that well), to come back to earth by pushing all the suspension onto the blocks, and with the lowered sway bar slicing off a layer of tarseal on the way down as well, (I had to replace the extremely worn-out sway bar bushings a few days later) - we also saw the many headlights flashing out the all important message... COP - somewhere ahead... Uh oh, so as soon as we bounced the second time, I hauled that handbrake on hard to almost maximum grip, (so as to NOT alert the skinheads approaching over the hill behind us a few seconds later), while selecting 3rd instead of 4th, and holding it as straight as possible, I got it down to 90 kph at the bottom of the hill, just as the skin-heads rammed the car in the butt, (as they too were by then braking hard). Thus I trundled past the cop at the cross-road intersection a 1/4 mile from the bottom of the hill, after just enough bend in the road, so that his radar caught something really fast, yet he couldn't actually see (or be seen by) anyone coming down the hill itself, so he wasn't sure (back in NZ in 1990 we didn't have very good radar guns in police cars) - such that he immediately spotted the low slung heavily modified USA V8 muscle car, trying to "look cool" who immediately after passing him, sped up again to be again nudging my bumper/towbar. As we entered and turned into Evansdale (on the old alignment before they built a bypass behind the town) I spotted his Blues & Two's (Reds and Blues), as he flipped a U-turn and chased us down. Immediately (as guilty as all hell) the skin heads pulled over, whereas I just calmly continued on at 90kph before slowing to 50 in the town limits. Maybe it was because the COP had to look twice at us, (my wife & I - and our son in his rear child's seat) - as my son excitedly rose up and rapidly pouted to the car behind us - good on you son, doing what we BOTH told him to do, while we sat straight faced looking dead ahead... Yeah Ryt, like a normal "family" - driving along in an old slow car, being caught rapidly by a modified V8 (totally overloaded with skinheads). So - we later learnt through the grape vine, that a carload of Invercargill's worst bunch of Skinheads, had been caught doing 235kph down the Evansdale Hill (on that same day eh), who had tried very unsuccessfully to tell either the police - or the court judge later, that they couldn't possibly have been doing that, and that it was in fact, the old slow green hunter in front???? We lived in Gore at that time, so even though my wife was screaming at me to "plant foot" and get the hell outa there, I stubbornly insisted on doing JUST 90kph, the entire way back to Gore, from Evansdale (which was enough distance, to create a somewhat fast trip from Invercargill to Gore,,, on an average speed - slightly above 100kph). As we pulled into our street in Gore, there was a VERY angry cop sitting there in his car - tapping away at his watch.!!!! I stopped (as any good Samaritan should) beside his window and asked, has your watch stopped, do you need the time ? ? ? You are LATE he said.!! Late for what I asked as I (deliberately) turned around to the missus and asked (sweetly), "did we need to be somewhere at this time"? Then turned back to him and said, we left Invercargill after shopping and doing some visiting there, so no - we aren't LATE for anything. You are LATE he again said, as he drove away.! Late - we were early (just) .. Oh yes, LATE, if the cops had expected us to still be roaring along at 200kph+, so yeah LATE...! After trundling along at 90kph and sometimes pulling to the side a LOT slower, (to let following traffic pass, that we had shot past earlier). LATE? Hell no I told the cop, we don't need to be anywhere today so have all the time in the world.. We never got a speeding ticket, and it wasn't all that much later - that I "permanently" took the car off the road, and deregistered it. It wasn't just a (city driving) street sleeper, but an open-road rocket. Not worth allowing the missus to continue with the youngster egging us on everywhere we went after that, nor to leave it licenced and registered, for when he later turned 18 and wanted to get it back "on-the-road" - for himself to drive .!!!! Hell no. He later went through a LOT of V8 muscle cars himself, destroying all, in high speed - drunken/drugged crashes. So I am ever grateful to that carload of skinheads, pushing e that day - as I would possibly still be happily driving it along, at way too fast a speed. Think of all the traffic tickets I saved by removing it from open road use, and the lives it most likely saved by not killing me or my family and anyone else we would have hit, what with the super heavily modified front end, and forward mounted steelwork, that we needed to get added up front, to allow us to get the lowered sway bar mounts welded on, somewhat forward of the motor itself, (which put the sway bar directly under the 3-layered new radiator's position). Yet with the original bonnet down and nothing exterior to the outline of the car, it looked for all the world, to be a sunken back ended Hunter, until I pushed a wee button and an electric solenoid opened, to raise the airbag shocks at the rear, before hitting the gas , and launching it.. The amazed faces of anyone riche enough to have a high powered car, that we left behind us at street lights, and if the over took us at speed on the open road, we'd whizz past them sooner rather than later, outdoing them ... (in a hunk of junk old 1976 Hillman Hunter - on steroids).
I go simple. I run a small trailer with a 120W panel and 300w capability with external panels. Does not run off the vehicle. I don't go for more than 3 days and it's plenty of power with 100Ah lithium. Runs the fridge lights and stereo easily. Granted, we get about 320 days of full sun. I take advantage 😊
Excellent video. It explained things very clearly to me (a novice with car electricals) It showed that my auto electrician friend installed the correct "house"battery system for me.
One hard lesson I learnt is yes! Have fuses and conjure your wiring, my patrol caught on fire due to not doing this when I was in remote Cape York, lucky I had a fire extinguisher ( also carry one! ) and I still did the trip and came home with my car all sweet, I lost my wiring for my lights and my dignity but learnt a valuable lesson
Always solid advice. I would however take out the comments around fusing both ends of a cable as it's completely unnecessary, does add some voltage drop (although small) provides another point of failure. Simply fuse the source and that's all that is required. Additionally to that, I'd never recommend soldering multi stranded wire in the car as it essentially turns in to one solid core wire and is prone to cracking and breaking. Done properly, a crimped wire will outlast a soldered wire any day, one of the reasons the main earth strap is crimped for example.
I agree with everything you've just said. Most people also go way overboard when soldering wires, where it is not just the joint that gets soldered, but it flows further up the wire creating a long stiff brittle bit of wire. Crimp and quality heatshrink with glue all day.
Agreed. No solder is way better for stranded auto cable PROVIDING the right crimping tool and a QUALITY crimp lug and quality cable is used. There is nothing worse than a bad crimp hidden under the insulation of a cheap Chinese lug - if you must use cheap crap, soldering will be better even though it will most likely break at the worst possible time on a corrugated road......
Put a fuse or breaker as close to the positive terminal on both batteries because both batteries will supply current if the wire arcs out on the body. Also double insulate the cable if its long, eg going into back of ute. Ordinary garden hose is good if you plan to send a long cable through chassis cavity into back of ute. Friend of mine didnt follow that advice and had a fire in back of ute where wires went into battery box, he didnt double insulate or have a breaker on 2nd battery. Fortunately had the fire extinguisher that I gave him.
Depending only if cable wire is tinned, solder is a good option, soldered copper can cause corrosion issues later, especially in marine environments. Well crimped and sheathed are always a better option.
I had Mercedes and it had all electric connectors crimped and soldered! So is the combination of the two a benefit, overkill or adversary??? Good question with lots of different questions! 100% does not exist, does it?
1) I live on 100watt solar panel fer little over a year now, been working good other then cloudy days. 2) I've had 2 optima red top batteries (1 in my ride, 1 for my solar) and I have both for about 7 years now. The one in my ride has been in 2 other ride before the suburban I have now.
My dual battery system was set up like your talking about when I bought my ute & most people claimed that it was wrong. I used it to jump start my ute last week and then saw this. I'm happy mine is set up this way
Your "ultimate" system is the standard setup on heavy commercial vehicles with an "electric auxiliary power unit" in the US. For example, my sleeper cab semi tractor has four parallel "dual purpose" starting/ deep cycle batteries for the normal engine/ cab/ lighting power, and four deep cycle "house" batteries. I have 4/0 (107 mm^2) between the banks and to the starter.
Greetings from ‘Merica! Found your channel last night at work and this video is hands down one of the best I have seen. I had so many questions about setting up a dual battery in my project 04 Toyota Sequoia and you nailed every single one. I’m so happy now I have hours of content to browse to get more information about what to do with my truck! Thanks again and keep these videos coming!
Thanks for the informative video. I don't do much off-roading, mainly towing a van. I have a small 36 Waeco fridge which sits in the back of the ute. (under an ARB Ascent canopy, so it's secure). It plugs into the Ranger's 12v outlet in the tub. However, when stopped there's no power. So, I'm looking at a second battery setup just for the fridge. I can go a number of different ways. Buy a lithium (LifePO4), a DC-DC charger, set it up so that it powers from the 12v outlet. Or maybe run a dedicated cable from the car battery (via a relay) to the tub to power the DC-DC unit which in turn charges the battery. And from there, a 12v outlet to power the fridge. The DC-DC unit then gives me the option of solar input when parked up. This requires a bit of work to wire in, make cradles, brackets, etc., but is a fairly cheap way to go. Or I can buy a suitably sized "power station" of which there are now many from which to choose. Bluetti seems to be the more popular that I've seen. This solution, costing upwards of $900 (more with a solar blanket), allows me to easily move the Bluetti and fridge from the Ranger to the wife's car for when she goes shopping and needs to keep perishable food cold. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this, especially from @ronny_dahl as to what folks have done.
My Ford Transit box van came with dual battery, one is for starting and the other for other stuff... But to start it needs both to be working... Just installed two 100ah AGM batteries that replaced the 75Ah original lead acid batteries. (I went for AGM because it has a hydraulic back lift that like a LOT amps...) Also have a 100w solar panel and charger that top of the battery. For the rest of the van that is made into a camper it has a 4 battery Lifepo4 battery bank with 24v system 5000w/h capacity, 1380w solar power total on 4 panels. 2 solar chargers and a 3000w 220v inverter.
I ended up just getting a portable set up. 42ah solar generator box… 30w solar panel and a 12v car charger for it for under $600usd. Then I also got a jumper pack to jump the crank battery for about $75usd. All my charging and power needs are met and I can move it into a trailer or another vehicle easy
You and some other are good teachers. I’ve learned from scratch and DIYed my setup with the proper tool etc. When I have discussions with beginners, I referred to you, ASPW etc and if there willing, I help them instead of sending buying power box etc. My fun is their sense of achievement. Of course you need to budget time when you DIY butI think it’s part of the fun 🍻
Great video. I put a dual battery in my rig quite a while ago. It's a 'just in case' jump starter that I also use for some accessories like a fridge, small inverter, etc. I used a large solenoid for isolation that I operate with a switch. I use a SPDT relay to direct where the accessories get their power from. When the ignition is off, power comes from the second battery, when it is on, it comes from the main battery/charging circuit. I don't use a DC to DC charger. More recently I bought a portable 'power station' (Jackery). Really, this is the way to go. It charges from a 12v power outlet when the engine is running and I use it to power the fridge and such. What's really great is you can move the fridge/power pack to where you are so you don't have to keep running back to the rig.
The problems with the Jackery pro2000, are; cost - @ $3300 Aud you can build better for approx half the cost, and have way faster 12v charging, and, the 12v charging. The pro2000 takes 24hrs to fully charge via 12v, that is its achillies heel for us. We typically only camp overnight, then drive on every day, sometimes we might only drive 1 to 2hrs to the next campsite. We like to park in shade, and there might be cloud, eventhough we have 400w of solarblankets, we dont use them much. I have 90A dcdc charging for my 260AH (3.3kwhr) LFP, and that will rechage most, if not all that was used last night for induction cooking, kettle, toaster, fridge, just driving to shops, bakery, a little sight seeing, to the next camp. We would never replenish the charge used in a Jackery pro2000, just by driving for an 1hr or 2. I carry a 25m 240v extension cable - cook where ever we like. We could use 2 cables if distance was an issue. Thus, for half the cost, you can put together a LFP + inverter + charge controller + cabling that will also charge in a fraction of the time. Remember, recharging time is the achillies heel of battery powered 240v systems.
@@nordic5490 That's good info. The Jackery's are a bit pricey, although the prices have come down some with the increased competition. The nice part of building one yourself (besides saving money) is you can customize it to your needs. Also, if a component breaks you can just replace that component. Perhaps when the Jackery dies I will put something together myself. (Although the 240 I use has a great place it fits in my rig).
very very good summary. Years ago I did a dual battery setup and had to collect info from dozens of different sources on how to do it. This video is a great intro that should help avoid most pitfalls.
Absolutely agree with labelling and some kind of wiring plan for anything you have installed. If not for you (because you know what everything is... don't you?) do it for the next person who needs to work out why something electrical isn't working. Disagree with buying everything with the same label. Learn a bit, get the performance and warranty you require and at a price that will pay for the next trip in savings. State of Charge / Depth of Discharge are very important differences between Lead Acid and Lithium battery chemistries - check this out and compare the value! ie: how much longer can the same rated lithium battery run the same fridges/lights/pumps than comparable lead-acid batteries? Don't bother about considering the weight difference of the different battery chemistries - you are driving a +2500kg vehicle - and unless you are moving those batteries by hand on a daily basis it's a non-issue. The electrical output and price/value far outweigh their weight. Great presentation, thanks!
Good info. I'm new to this and in the beginning stages of modifying my 4WD Suburban. I have a single cranking battery under the hood, and will be using a 100aH lithium battery as the accessory battery that will be mounted in a compartment (removing one of the middle seats) along with the inverter, fuse box, and MPPT. I'll be using a Redarc BCDC25 charger, and will have a 175W solar panel on the roof with its own MPPT Victron controller. Thinking of using a NC relay to isolate solar when the engine is running and let the alternator take care of things, then switch to solar when the engine is not running. Hopefully this will all work out.
For the jump start fearure, i prefer to have to pop the bonnet to engage it. It makes sure i check to make sure nothing is loose or faulty. Other than a faulty or old crank battery it shouldnt be flat. Worth checking.
Great video again. Very informative 👍 I bought my 4wd with dual battery already in and it isn’t the tidiest job, this really makes me want to get it all stripped out and start again with a good neat setup that I know is the goods.
3 Words missing: "Lithium Jump Starter". Skip all the extra stuff you've put under the bonnet and simply carry a good quality, high powered Lithium Jump Starter like the Noco GB70. Then you can not only start your own vehicle, but start everyone else's as well.
Correct. I carry 2 cheap portable lithium jump starters @ $100each. Both have been thrashed when I had a bad starter battery, both work perfectly. And of course, carry jumper leads. A second underbonnet battery is just unnecessary dead weight these days. Fun you fridge of LFP down the back. If you are really concerned re the winch load on your starter battery, fit a Hawker Odyssey starter battery. I have just fitted other Odyssey battery to a differenct vehicle - lasts 10yrs, can be deep cycled, FAA approved for helicopters and is used in rally cars and off shore jetski racing, so, uber reliable. Remove that 2nd 30kg battery from uder the bonnet - better ride, handling, airflow
I have a GU Patrol, with dual crank batteries under the bonnet wired in parallel, allows extended periods of winching, plenty of CCA for starting. I have a Lithium house battery in the rear for fridge, etc. I have a fixed solar panel on the roof rack, and a Renogy 50A DC-DC charger which has 3 way charging. From Alternator to house battery, from solar to house battery, from solar to crank battery when the house battery is 100%. This removes the need for a battery isolator switch since the crank batteries are maintained virtually forever by the solar panel when the vehicle is not used for months (eg Covid isolation or working away or on long holiday).
The other (big??) con of installing a dual battery system in your vehicle (especially the more expensive systems) is that it’s pretty much permanent so when it comes to selling the vehicle, you’ve kinda gotta leave it there and won’t get the full original cost outlay return. A fully portable system such as a Bluetti AC200 Max or Eco Flow Delta solves that issue but is not without its own drawbacks such as the taking up of valuable storage space and recharging requirements etc. At the end of the day, horses for courses I suppose.
The problems with the portable units, eg the Jackery pro2000, are; cost - @ $3300 Aud you can build better for approx half the cost, and have way faster 12v charging, and, the 12v charging. The pro2000 takes 24hrs to fully charge via 12v, that is its achillies heel for us. We typically only camp overnight, then drive on every day, sometimes we might only drive 1 to 2hrs to the next campsite. We like to park in shade, and there might be cloud, eventhough we have 400w of solarblankets, we dont use them much. I have 90A dcdc charging for my 260AH (3.3kwhr) LFP, and that will rechage most, if not all that was used last night for induction cooking, kettle, toaster, fridge, just driving to shops, bakery, a little sight seeing, to the next camp. We would never replenish the charge used in a Jackery pro2000, just by driving for an 1hr or 2. I carry a 25m 240v extension cable - cook where ever we like. We could use 2 cables if distance was an issue. Thus, for half the cost, you can put together a LFP + inverter + charge controller + cabling that will also charge in a fraction of the time. Remember, recharging time is the achillies heel of battery powered 240v systems. And, it is easy to build all of it in to a removeable crate.
A handy thing to look for in your DC/DC with MPPT or Solar Charger is the trickle charge funtion back to the crank battery. Then if you mentioned you have a solar input apmerage if camped for a few days that exceeds your fridge, lighting draw ect, when the house battery is full it will also trickle charge the crank battery :)
Great video, but one small comment on "don't trust crimp connections". I can assure you nothing is better than a well done crimp connection! And especially in automotive NEVER solder connections, but use propper crimp connections with the right crimping tools!
For 4x4 travel, one needs to become something of a multi-faceted technician. On the vehicle, accessories, electrics, offroad driving, tech and nav integration. It takes time and effort to get there.
One item with lithium vs agm, depending on your global location lithium batteries have a fairly large drop in performance in extreme cold. Great video, I always learn a ton from your videos and looking forward to your podcast!
Eh AGM batteries also have a significant drop in performance in extreme cold, the chemical reason is exactly the same, you are slowing down the chemistry, but the electrons are still moving as fast as they ever do so you lose efficiency. The reason Lithium batteries have gotten a bad rap is because of EVs using Lithium cells where a drop in performance is extremely detrimental to your range. Where as an AGM or FLABs are mainly used as main car batteries to start an engine, where the loss in capacity is not a big deal it's the instantaneous output that you really need which isn't significantly degraded in either battery. If I remember correctly the damage for charging during low temp is a unique to lithium batteries though as the ions get stuck on the anode side which they will get stuck there degrading the capacity of the battery and potentially causing dendrites which if they get big enough will short the cell completely ruining it, the same is not true of discharging in cold environments though, you will just get the regular drop in performance of AGM or Lithium, but the cells will recover their capacity once they warm up again. It's a limitation of all chemical batteries, not just Lithium Ion.
Made more interesting if your BMS has both hot and cold temperature protection, the battery can be just turned off. You can get Lithium batteries with self heating functions if you know that lots of extreme cold is in your future.
Was just going to say that, the 100ah LiFePo4 on Amazon are now often coming with a heat option for un extra $70-$100. I'm going with an Odyssey dual battery set up only because they are both in my engine bay and I don't want the added risk for China lithoum irons. Too much heat and vibration. I don't trust them just yet.
Ronny mate, I walked away from the online world a year or so ago & now I'm back. I spotted this upload & just finished watching it & I gotta say that was the perfect presentation. You've become so good at it. Very impressive & accurate too. It's good to be back & see your still at it. Full ahead brother. Mick from Vic.. 👍
Keep in mind that the power used by a fridge isn’t constant. When the compressor is on, it could be pulling 6.5 amps (my ARB) when it’s not running it pulls 100ma. Thus the fridge isn’t always pulling high power. Depending on temperature of the inside of vehicle is how much it runs. So for solar power charging. A solar panel array producing 6 amps MAY be able to keep the battery fully charged. Again dependent on inside vehicle temp. My solar works just fine for me most months in Texas. In the summer though, I either need to drive my car for an hour a day, or add an additional 80watt portable panel. In addition to the 80watt on my roof.
A fridge usually use around 1500w for about 1-3 seconds when starting, that is around 100A on a 12v system... When it is running it uses 5 to 10A like you say. You have to account for it using 1500w during the start for a few seconds when using a inverter or generator to run the fridge.
I have been running multi battery setups since mid early 90s pretty much since I got my first van started off with a 120amp isolate and have always ran hi draw stuff off my secondary battery i have always used leadacid batteries and never had any problems my last setup had a 500amp isolater and duel alternators ran a winch 3 inverters had 4 leadacid batteries never had a problem and I ran air compressors microwave all kinds of stuff off them on a regular basis. I used my truck as a portable power station for work and for camping!!!!!
Mostly good advice, but I'm going to take issue with your comment to solder connectors. I agree, don't just use pre-insulated crimp connectors and call it good...they are great for trackside repairs, but not great long term. BUT...do NOT solder! Solder wicks its way up the wires by capillary action, stiffens them up, and creates a hard point where it ends. Over time, the wire conductors WILL fatigue and crack at that point, and the wire will fail. Corrugated roads will dramatically increase this. Proper heat shrink and strain relief will slow it down, but it WILL happen eventually. 1. Use good quality crimp connectors, not the ones in a multi pack from Supercheap... 2. Preferably use open barrel uninsulated connectors, and put heat shrink over the join. 3. Get a good crimper, ratchet type, designed for the type of connector you are using. $50 minimum, not the $5 cheapie. 4. Do some tests with the same type of wire, and use the tightest crimp you can do on that wire without distorting the connector. Properly done, the crimp forms a cold weld that is electrically superior to solder, and is vastly mechanically superior. 5. Use good quality dual wall glue lined heat shrink. The join will be encapsulated, waterproof, almost completely corrosion resistant, and the thick wall shrink gives good strain relief as well. Properly done crimped joint with glue lined heat shrink will outperform.a soldered joint or a crimped and soldered joint in every way...aesthetically, mechanically, electrically, longevity, corrosion resistance, everything.
I need to get a DC to DC soon rocking a solenoid switch cuz that's what I had on and when I started the project it's kind of settled but now it's time to upgrade some components. Been trying to get all the wiring set up with quick disconnects and all that jazz or they can be easily removable or fixable. Lots of SAE and Anderson clips 😂
I had someone else install my dual battery system but ended up redoing it to fix all the flaws with it. I recommend people just do it themselves the first time. You need to know 12v stuff if you're installing 12v accessories anyway.
Ronny talking about food being spoiled out bush which is important but there is nothing worse than smelling electrical burning after you've completed some wiring. I always make sure I have a plan to fight vehicle fires!
i bought a bluetti ac180 and took it out for the first time last weekend. it was cloudy so i couldn't get as much charge off my 20w solar panels, so between my fridge and all my other crap it went dead by the morning of the last day. so now I'm thinking about putting a dual set up just to run my fridge on because i was constantly worried about running out of power. seems cheaper than buying a battery add on for the bluetti or buying another cheaper power bank
7:23 Hi! Disconnecting battery may lead you to the problems: radio lock, clock reset (not serious), GPS security tracking drainage, carputer (brains) may want to recalibrate automatic transmission. So this advice is for real rock'n-rolla.
Great video in my 80 series ute i am running 24 volts for every think so two 1000 cca cat n70 with bolt on lugs for all the car power winch all car lights sport lights start then 150 amp hour lithium to run inverter fridge camp lights with 160 w solar panel on top of roof top tent and a 110 w solar panel on car roof to do all 3 battery
The "Ultimate-Ultimate" set up: Secondary alternator to charge the house and/or auxiliary batteries (200 AH LifePO4). (Auxiliary batteries for all the auxiliary vehicle systems). This leaves the factory system intact and unaltered except for jumping. House batteries strictly for the house related systems.
Ultimate ?, maybe, but a 2nd alternator, support brackets, belts etc, is unecessary for a 200AH LFP. Many 4x4s are already factory fitted with a 200 - 250A alternator. Or, you can buy a drop in 200A replacement alternator for most vehicles. 2x 50A dcdc chargers will charge that LFP @ 100A, close to their rated max charge limit anyhow.
The prices you're quoting for this stuff is insane, Ronny. I know that Aussie ducats are cheaper than USD, but Heyseuss! I'm thinking $500 for a lithium house battery setup, but I'll do it all myself.
Im planning a dual battery set up for my FJ right now but I plan to have my deep cycle batrery at the top left away from my crank battery, wuth my dc-dc charger and fuse box and such with the deep cycle
I always ran a dual crank battery, (old diesels will tell you !) the batteries last a long time, you always start, and you can run decent fore and aft work lights, if they start to dim,start the motor. I don't live in the van, no need for Lithium. If you really want to be irritating, make sure you take a small diesel powered genny ( phenomenally noisy !)
I've always had good quality classic starters hard wired, works for me but i camp simple. It helps a lot with a simple volt meter and understanding of the chemistry / state of charge.
2x210ah lifepo4 here in parallel 12v system in my van. Single battery 250a bms discharge rate won't power a decent inverter hence duals are absolutely necessary in my application.
I'me a truck driver. I use a 12v 400AH LiFePO4 aux battery. During a normal run, I rarely fire up the generator. The battery can power the desktop computer, including gaming, for a few hours before I shut it down and go to sleep. Wake up with about 50% left. This powers the fridge, the 24/7 6 camera DVR system plus any misc 12v low power items. Well worth the $$$ over time as they will last over 10 years of daily use. Plus reduce maintenance on the generator as it hardly runs. I only run it when shutdown for a day or two. Most drivers can get away with 200AH, but I run a full desktop system plus other items that will drain a 200AH overnight. Nice thing about LiFePO4 is it is totally safe for indoor install. They do not gas at all. Mine is under the area under the bed. All LiFePO4 I know of is rated for install in living areas. Only draw back is never ever charge at or below freezing. Most BCMs will prevent charging when near or below freezing.
Heat derates wiring, making it more resistive (lossy, greater volt drop, etc). Eg, you should run a bigger guage in the hottest part of the engine bay. Eg, my setup is 90A dcdc, I ran 2AWG (32 or 35mm2) between the alternator and the fuse mounted away from the heat, then 5m of 3 guage to the 2x dcdc charge controllers. Works great. Remember, heat directly near the engine, especially on the exhaust side, derates the wiring - use a bigger guage.
Thanks a lot! I'm just getting into overlanding and building my first rig. I would love to have an amazing battery setup..... but idk why i would need one yet lol. My current plan is to get out there and see what i want/ need and take care of it then
need to mention high amperage circuit breakers ..... can get from 50 amps to 500amps? put one on each main power cable next to each battery as a fail safe incase a main cable rubs through on body work ... only cost 50 bucks each.. they also double as a battery isolator if your truck is parked up for weeks or months.... i learnt the hard way.... a weeks work pulling dash apart after a wire went rouge in engine bay and rubbed against my exhaust pipe then melted half the wires in my dash.. took my truck to a specialist mechanic for heart surgery, 2 weeks after i dropped of to them, they started selling instalation kits exactly how mine was made and installed
I am not a fan of soldering wires. If there is a decent amount of movement. I think wago connectors would work, or if you solder the wires at least add some strain relief to keep the connection area from moving around too much. You forgot to mention that people need to double, or triple check all connections before the battery is connected to the system. Same goes for other ways power comes in to charge the batteries, or run the system. Great video though. Lots of really good information for anyone looking to add accessories.
I’ve been running the Same Bosch AGM 100 amp hour battery pack for the last six years 🤔 It lived on a trickle charger at first.lives pretty much in the back of the lux connected to a 160 watt solar panel now with a MPPT controller unit I mainly use it on the fridge with a water pressure pump at times when we go away weekends or the odd camp trip.I was considering going Lithium as I think this agm battery could be on its way out. I’m yet to get it tested,it lost nearly 10% of its charge the other day when I kicked the fridge up on a warm day before we went away.Not sure if I should get another agm or lithium,was considering a DC to Dc charger also. 🧐 Pretty sure my agm box isn’t compatible with a lithium battery. Interesting video. We r considering buying a van later on down the track also. Not sure which way to go.
Had dual batteries under the hood of the PRADO 95 series 1KZ Used the jumpstart link once in 4 years and had to break out the lithium jump pack anyways 😆 So removed the second starter AGM and used that side for an air compressor with a heat shield 🛡️ to separate the hot air from the engine bay and ran the fuse block and wiring in the Second battery location and then slapped in the house battery 50AH in the back of the wagon when the price was over $700 for 50AH
Using a True dual battery isolator provides several advantages: Reliable Battery Management: Automatically ensures the starting battery is charged first, then charges the auxiliary battery, preventing the main battery from draining and ensuring reliable engine starts (True Battery Isolator). No Voltage Drop: Unlike traditional diode isolators, True isolators have no voltage drop, maintaining optimal charging efficiency (True Battery Isolator). Dual Sensing Technology: Monitors the voltage of both batteries and engages charging for both if either battery is receiving a charge, which is particularly useful when using external chargers (True Battery Isolator). Durable and Compact Design: Built to withstand harsh conditions with features like waterproofing, heat resistance, and anti-vibration casing, ensuring longevity and reliability in various environments (True Battery Isolator) (True Battery Isolator). Easy Installation: Simple three-wire installation without the need to bypass existing alternator wiring, making it user-friendly even for novice installers (True Battery Isolator). Cost-Effective Solution: Provides a budget-friendly way to manage dual battery setups effectively, offering long-term savings by extending battery life and preventing failures (True Battery Isolator). Safety Features: Includes ignition protection and operates within a wide temperature range, enhancing the safety of your vehicle’s electrical system (True Battery Isolator). Overall, the True dual battery isolator enhances the reliability, efficiency, and longevity of a dual battery system in various applications, from trucks to boats and RVs. For more details, visit the dfna dot info website.
Instead of a second under bonnet battery. Connect a 100Farad Super Capacitor to the starter battery. Disconnect when not in use. Use a super capacitor jump starter in the case of emergencies. The super capacitors can charge from a dead battery and start your car. The jump starter can charge in five minutes from your house battery or solar panel, to add yet another starting source.
My aussie made century agm deep cycle secondary battery has been in my troopy from new 2007 till now and still going strong. If you know how to maintain your battery it will last for a very long time.
@@barbaraoliveira9753 Hi Barbara, firstly make sure the battery is securely fitted. A closed cell foam rubber mat under the battery help a lot for damping the effects of vibration. Keep the the terminal posts and terminals clean and secure, also make sure the cables and wiring to those battery terminal are also secure as loose cables can add to the effect of vibration to the terminals and can damage the cables. When the vehicle is not being used for periods keep it connected to a charger that has a maintenance feature (basically will trickle charge when required) I do this with all my batteries on my vehicles and boats. So this is a bit of preventative maintenance and on going battery maintenance. And hope it helps.
Question: setup includes 1 agm starting battery and 2 lithium house batteries... I wish to add a secondary starting battery for colder weather. Would you just add the secondary starting battery non-isolated parallel... or would you recommend another way. Vehicle is 2000 E450 ambulance conversion with 640w solar on roof
I would love you to discuss with me what I need. Especially as a single Women driving, solo in an SUV. There’s so many of us out there and we are willing to pay for this kind of advice. It’s the ONLY reason I’ve delayed doing a Duel system. Every salesman is just about sales not about what’s actually going to suit our needs.
Great info Ronny, especially like the jump start switch 5:59. My question is: it possible to run a single 200 Ah 4 post lithium battery for crank and house. I have a vintage Mitz 4cyl diesel, 2000W inverter, 120W Solar blanket and a 1700 gas generator as (boon docking) emerg. The reason is; I need the extra space. The battery I’m thinking of is a LiLead with plenty of cranking amps. I’ve asked many RUclipsrs and bat manufacturers but can’t get a straight answer.
Why lithium? I have a "car" AGM battery and a pair of (deep cycle) marine AGM batteries on a separate circuit. The switch on my dash connects or disconnects them from each other to either recharge the boat batteries or jump the primary. The winch, flood lights, and inverter//welder all run from the secondary and I can just join the circuits if need be.
my Nissan Terrano 1995 r3m was factory dual battery all i did was add a solar system. ....i add i ran a lymack fridge sorry for spelling it was 75ltr with built in inverter. Used this for across Australia and family tourer. sold her the new owner destroyed her....also add had a 95 amphr alternator. so mine was set up old school big gel batteries and never lost a battery or lost my cold food build it right will last .......
I'm glad I ran across this video, I am currently installing 6 12 inch Sundown Audio subs, but I don't know near as much about 12v setups as you do. This video answered a couple of questions I had about which and how many batteries to install. I am however installing a 400A alternator to help juice the bat's, and hopefully that'll be enough to do the job.
one thing about brand compatibility, that only applies to automative parts. Once you start going into electricals not related to your car just pick whats most compatible because brand packages will always be a bad deal for you and will try to push things you dont need. Its just down to researching what you need. For example getting the right battery charger for the battery you use such as the right time of lead or lithium not just the type. you can still make a mistake mismatching parts from the same brand. With electrics all the parts care is they have the right voltage and the needed amps can be provided. I dont do any dual battery stuff for cars but i still carry a jumpstarter powerbank even when i just drive around in the city as i have seen other people stranded. You should've mentioned a 3 battery system. I noticed that your auxillary battery is very small, but a 24V is far better and many common systems accept 24V even with solar. You reduce weight needing less cables but you need to remember to avoid mixing where you shouldnt. You can still link up the batteries in parallel to the car for charging and jumping while having it in series at the same time for 24V. For inverters, 24V is more efficient than 12V. If you rely on powering stuff, 24V will do a lot better for high power things and for inverters. Where i live, gel lead acids are far far cheaper than lithiums. they cost 3x cheaper for the same capacity. I have a UPS rated at 1KW (not KVA) that takes 2 and these batteries have a rated initial current at 2.1A so even gel batteries can provide quite some amps just not sudden like starting a car. Theres are the types meant to power devices so are fine being drained further. a small 12V 7AH battery here costs a few australian dollars equivalent. However i find some UPS dont like adding more batteries in parallel as 1 errors every few hours. There are far more options for auxiliary batteries than you mentioned that are small and can be added in areas usually not used far away from the engine bay.
Shouldn't the battery disconnect be on the negative side? also, what did you use that surrounds your electrical panel… I.e. where your fuse block is, your wire is going to some kind of channel that's mounted behind your seat… is that just square plastic conduit that you attached to a mounting board / rack mount cable management?
Some general comments, and I claim no expertise nor much time camping. But this is what I have: *100Ah AGM battery, half price from Aldi for $100 *Connected directly to the start battery (engine bay of 80 series LC) via a Voltage Sensitive Relay (do disconnect the batteries below a preset voltage) and a 100A circuit breaker. *Both those parts from Jaycar for not many $ and mounted in front of the radiator support panel ie low risk of overheating the parts. *Rear 12v outlets and any camping accessories are run off the AGM battery. *That has been in the car for 4 years now. Doesn't get much use but still functioning, and for total parts cost of
#2 Jumping the battery from the auxiliary battery what parts are involved? and I have a small Metabo HPT EC28M air compressor Power 120V / 60Hz Amps 2.8 Induction Motor HP 0.5 will an inverter work off the auxiliary battery? What size inverter? I am looking at a deep cycle AGM battery for the auxiliary battery. Because of the cold days where I live the lithium batteries are not a good idea. I am going to have the compressor and jumper cables to help people out like a roadside assistant situation.
I would also recommend seeing if your engine has a place to mount a second alternator to charge a secondary battery. Then if both batterys are low when you drive they will both charge up quickly.
The reason people put their fuses right on or near the battery is because the wire between battery and fuse isn't fused. That 2 meters of wire you have running all the way round your engine bay to the "convenient" and pretty looking fuse block is unfused and if it shorts it'll burn your truck down. Great advice.
My Dodge Cummins came with two batteries from the factory, diesels are harder to crank, and in the cold even worse, you have to have extra power for the heater grid or glow plugs that take a lot of power and you have to wait to crank till they heat up to air so it will fire up, it would kill one battery quick
2 suggestions if possible mount crank batteries out of engine area. Engine heat is bad for batteries. Next for crank batteries be sure you get the highest quality and gage of cabling. Use cabling similar to welding ground cables.
Been watching your videos for ages now and it's safe to say I bought a 4x4, got into exploring, camping and touring, because of your genuine character, avoiding all the BS that most people will receive at aftermarket accessory stores. I quickly saw what is necessity and what is just wasted money if done incorrectly, so you have saved me tonnes of money that I could actually use on getting out and adventuring.
Keep up the awesome vids and the no BS straight to the point content. Hard to find genuine characters these days, so stick with your good ethics as I'm sure it is appreciated by many. 😎
ken oath, hard to find genuine stuff these days.
keep up the good work Ronny!!!
RONNY OLE BOY !!! I'm a 40 yr Master Tech, and this is the BEST video concerning multiple battery systems. You cover everything and you have more safety recommendations and warnings than any 2 other videos combined. This alone is worth the watch for DIYers, but you even cover all the bases (Yank term there). Keep up d'good work.
Just starting my vanlife journey and after watching dozens of videos on battery systems, this has, by far, been the most informative video I've come across. Well done! Cheers!
Thanks Ronny. Been watching you for years and gained a great deal of knowledge. No good deed goes unpunished so here ya go. Just a lil appreciation and gratitude. Enjoy!
Bit of advice from an ex mechanic.
If your in your wiring buying stage use calculators, they have how much amps your going to use, how ling the wire is and voltage drop.
When planning it in the calculator add 1mtr to the wire length. Try go for 1% drop. If you find it's just on the max length it's worth going up a size (down in awg number). Honestly I normally recommend doing that anyway, if something calls for 8g, go for 6 or even 4g. It'll heat up less. Less voltage loss and does allow for some future proofing.
Heat derates wiring, making it more resistive (lossy, greater volt drop, etc). Eg, you should run a bigger guage in the hottest part of the engine bay. Eg, my setup is 90A dcdc, I ran 2AWG (32 or 35mm2) between the alternator and the fuse mounted away from the heat, then 5m of 3 guage to the 2x dcdc charge controllers. Works great. Remember, heat directly near the engine, especially on the exhaust side, derates the wiring - use a bigger guage.
Or simply calculate on it your self - the resistivity of copper is quite temperature dependent, but for example at 20°C it's 0.0167 ohms for 1 mm2 wire that have 1 meter length - at 70°C, it's 0.0201 and at at 120°C, 0.0235. So, for example a 32 mm2 wire at 70° will have 0.0201 / 32 = 0.000628125 ohms per meter.
Voltage drop is the resistance times current - so if 100 amps are passing thru the cable, the voltage will drop by 0.0628 volts per meter of wire. This is independent of voltage, so if you want it as a percentage, it is 0.0628 / 12 = 0.0052333... So the voltage will drop about 0.52 % per meter.
And this also shows how crappy a 12 V system is at transfer power. To power for example a kettle, vacuum cleaner, induction cooking plate or what that pulls 1800 W at 12 V, the current would need to be 150 A. Now if you have 10 meters of the wire in the previous example going to it (just a 5 m cable - usually 2 leads are used), the voltage drop would be 0.942 V, or 7.85 % (which is unacceptable and the power loss would about 140 W. Power loss is voltage drop times current, so 0.942 x 150 = about 141 W of power would just heat up the cable).
Now if the voltage is increased just to 24 V given that the load could handle it and deliver the same power), the current would be just 75 A
- which means the voltage drop go down to half, 0.471 (1.96 %) or and the power loss in the cable drops to 35 W. Now increase the voltage even more to 48 and the voltage drop will go down to 0.49% and power loss, less than 9 W over that same cable!
If the 5 m cable in the first example is upsized to for example 120 mm2, it will give 0.0201 / 120 = 0.0001675, 0.0001675 * 150 = 0.25125 V voltage drop (which is about 2.1 %) and power loss about 38 W. But such cable will use about 10.7 kg of copper (0.012 dm2 x 100 dm = 1.2 dm3 - the density of copper is about 8.9 kg/dm3 - so 1.2 x 8.9 = 10.68). That's huge to transfer a puny 1800 W.
Same sizes of cable (cross section area) is used to power large industrial equipment or sometimes even overhead lines for trams and small rail vehicles
- just because it's used so much more efficiently at the much higher voltages.
Laughing in zero gauge, crying in H.O. alternator prices
@@Speeder84XLI run 95m㎡ cabling to my 3kW Inverter with a cable length of 75cm.
@Speeder84XL
After reading this, l'm more confused than ever.
I'm mechanically minded, so l will just get an auto electrician to do my electrical work.
There's so much information in this single video that I don't even know where to begin learning from. Very high quality content! Love it!
I’m just getting into 4x4 & camping, iv done a 115ah kings deep cycle hooked up to an isolator not a dcdc , a half decent battery box & a second hand 50L kings fridge with a bunnings false floor, the whole set up wouldn’t have set me back more than $800 & it’s all removable with a couple of ratchet straps, does the job for beginners
I agree with heat shrink on a crimp.
But not soldering, have seen alot of solder joints fail on aftermarket fitted wiring.
It is easier for a beginner to get a good crimp and than heat shrink it, rather than get a good solder joint.
And whatever you do.. don't crimp a soldered wire, all it does is crack the solder and doesn't allow the crimp to bite in correctly.
Agreed. It is nearly impossible to solder bigger cables, eg 35mm2 anyhow. Use a hydraulic crimper, and I usually use smaller jaws than recommended. Running 175A continuous for 40mins for a 2000w inverter test, the 35 & 50mm2 crimp lugs never got warm, ie, a very good connection.
It is actually not allowed to solder connections in many cases here in the USA. Mechanical connections only.
I wired many Boats while building them, and was informed soldering wrecked the wiring causing it to harden and rust.
That was evident in doing repairs with some degridation going back from the fitting 300mm or so, yes in a salty enviroment and inside the boat as well but Ive seen many vehicles showing similar corosion.
A quality Crimping tool and correct sizing with heat shrink has served me well.
A good tug on the connection after crimping is recommended too.
Probably One of the best videos about auxiliary battery on a Vehicle. Easy to understand even for people with lack of knowledge about car electricity
Thanks for your channel
A comment on the use of crimping. I only use crimps, however my crimping tools are proper tools, not glorified pair of pliers. if the crimp has been done properly there will be no problems. Soldering is only needed if you dont trust your crimping quality..
P.S. my trade is RAAF trained aircraft elec fitter/avionics tech, 50 years experience.
Correct! Most retail crimping tools and terminals are barely adequate. Ok for simple wiring but for high current or high voltage, professional crimpers and quality terminals are essential.
Agree, I think crimping with the correct dies and lugs is better on heavier gauges, stronger and vibration resistant.
I've read that solder + crimp isn't done in aviation due to the vibration, eventually the join becomes brittle?
@@asshatterythats correct vibration is your enemy
@@Brocks-Travels So whats the Entry point for crimping tool then?
Well done. I'd also like to add that people don't need to be intimidated by 12v if they don't know anything about it. It's very easy to learn and then you have the skills to diagnose, repair, modify, etc.
Do you have a youtube resource (or other) you would recommend? Thanks in advance!
@gordonmclean2322 No one specific off the top of my head, but a few good searches will point you in the right direction. The trick is to find someone who explains it in a way that works for you because we all communicate in different ways.
A few searches to start with would be:
-How do relays work (vital for automotive)
-How to calculate volts/amps/watts (so you can have appropriately sized components)
-12V basics (for me, it helped when i found someone who said its just like making a circle)
Once you get started you'll be able to glean new searches and away you go.
Blue sea systems also has a great free app called "circuit wizard" to calculate appropriate wiring gauge. They specialize in boats but it's the same concept and they tend to lean more towards having some extra head room for safety.
Hopefully this can point you in the right direction and you can find someone who communicates in a way that works for you.
The dual battery in parallel is not too bad, especially if you can isolate one with a low voltage cut out. Team that with a lithium jumper pack just in case you get it wrong and it's a decent weekender system.
In the old days, I used a dual diode battery isolator. Works great and very simple. The batteries never see each other electrically. Even a simple high current relay that parallels them only when engine is running.
Remember, there is a 0.6 V drop across a diode. This will limit how much the battery charges. I used a relay.
If you buy a battery isolator that's meant for the purpose, it fully charges the primary vehicle battery first and then charges the auxillary battery second.
if youre on a budget or only have room for 1 battery a great option is a marine starting battery. its a hybrid design with good cranking amps and better deep cycle capabilities too. get the biggest possible size you can squeeze in there. this gives you high capacity and heavy load capability for winching.
make sure the new battery has equal or greater cranking amp ratings (cold cranking amps included)
look at capacitors.. vids.
Yup, I recommend the Hawker Odyssey batteries for the starter battery - I just fitted one to another car last week. These Odyssey batteries are ultra relaiable, last10yrs, and can be repeatably deep discharged. This battery will run the winch no problem at all. Odyssey batteries are FAA approved fpr helicopters, and the small 16 ah version is widely used for rally cars and off shore jetski racing. You wont buy better for a starter battery.
very interesting, as a no power on site worker i just went with the basic battery box with built in inverter since most my tools are battery tools, this could charge them and also run my fridge. Didn't cost me more than $1000. still going strong 8-10 years later
How u charge it
@@trentkrikken9873 charges off the crank with an isolator, or when I get home I can run a power lead to it and charge it off the house. I’ve ran it to the back of the tray but with long enough jumper leads I can jump start my car aswell. Best value for money ever.
As a master electrician I can say, imo, you are absolutely correct. I run dual front off the alt for drive. Two 105 ah deep cycnle in the bed for camp with solar running a 2024 siera so when driving i can plug a smart charger into the built in inverter in the truck bed, to charge the deep cycles while driving.
I have been running dual batteries in my 85 model L300 4WD for the past 34 years. I built a software controlled battery linker to jump-start myself if needed. The 2nd battery runs the fridge, HF comms and AIR CTI central tyre inflation. The combination works. Usually I get 4 years out of the lead-acid 120AH aux battery.
After all these years I found what seems to be an informed opinion on a topic I've not seen covered before. I don't see multiple battery systems very often south of the Mason/Dixon line unless there's a winch setup. By the upper border there's a lot of jumping going on due to the cold weather. I'm always called to help out during this time of year. Mostly for the stereo and power tools that I can run on the pickup. For a welder I use a generator kept on a lock box.
17:35, many years ago, I had my old 1976 Hillman Hunter 1725cc Motor "die" on me, when it tossed a con rod, so, my mate Phil (a car/Truck mechanic by daytime/trade and a backyard fixit mechanic by night) sorted me out, with a similar sized, but smaller CC rated extremely high performance Toyota Sprinter's 1600 cc DOHC 5 speed gearbox, that had a much higher RPM output on it's driveline tail-shaft..
The result, a much peppier, outright responsive and ABSOLUTE "street-sleeper" I have ever seen, as it had a frontal oil pan that required us to drop the front sway bar mounts by 2" just to get the motor to sit on the hunter engine mounts, (after some slight modifications), plus the Toyota's higher revving 5th gear output, meant it was spinning the conversion driveshaft all that much more, (than the stock standard old original gearbox did), into the "we kept it" Hunter's original diff ratio.
The result of that was simple, as the hunter was heavier than the Toyota Sprinter, it kept some of the increased power and rev range, slower than it normally would have been, whilst using al the extra power of the smaller cc DOHC system, and the over-dive 5th gear ratio, meaning that combined with the low ratio Hunter Diff, the car acquired the speed status of a "weak" dragster.
Result:
I could pull off the street intersection "lights" way faster than any previous HUNTER could achieve, whilst NEVER having to change gear between intersections, what with having the newer "outright power to the ground", ability to spin the back wheels the entire city block (if I left my foot on the "pedal/to-the/metal" thing).
It would do (flat out until I got scared enough to change gears) up to 80kph in 1st, 120 kph in 2nd, 150kph in 3rd and the 4th (the Hunter only had four gears before we changed everything) could drag the car a long way BEYOND the speedo's round dial maximum of 160kph, sitting somewhere near the bottom to slightly up towards ZERO again, (meaning it was approx. 200kph at bottom of dial, and closer to 240 maxed out in 4th).
THEN there was that extra gear called FIFTH (some call these an overdrive, as they spin the gearbox output shaft - faster than the main engine's crankshaft)
Changing from 4th to 5th with the pedal to the metal, on very long public roads, meant a MASSIVE SURGE held one back into the seat as she literally took off.
Watching an old round speedo dial, go from 0 at about 8o'clock on the dial, to pass 80hph top of dial, then when the needle went past the normal maximum (the mechanic pulled the stop-pin out of the speedo before we tested it, so left it out afterwards too) doing 160kph at the 4pm mark, to then see it continue to turn around under bottom dead center (approx. 200kph) and climb back PAST the original ZERO start point, (now doing in excess of 240kph), I can tell you - it was a shatteringly breath-taking experience, to be chased by a carload of skinheads (in a highly modified V8 with way too many of them in the car) after I had annoyed them by passing them at about 70kph in the 100kph open road area, after following them haphazardly wobble all over the road, left to right hand fog lines, as the guy in the middle front seat steered, as the driver appeared to be sleeping?), - with the ability to out-drag them the entire time, I eventually launched the hunter off the top of the hill at Evansdale - Southland NZ, on SH1, as we headed downhill towards Evansdale, passing oncoming cars while LOOKING DOWN on their rooves, and with no AIR BRAKES in the car (at two foot off the road, the wheels don't brake all that well), to come back to earth by pushing all the suspension onto the blocks, and with the lowered sway bar slicing off a layer of tarseal on the way down as well, (I had to replace the extremely worn-out sway bar bushings a few days later) - we also saw the many headlights flashing out the all important message...
COP - somewhere ahead...
Uh oh, so as soon as we bounced the second time, I hauled that handbrake on hard to almost maximum grip, (so as to NOT alert the skinheads approaching over the hill behind us a few seconds later), while selecting 3rd instead of 4th, and holding it as straight as possible, I got it down to 90 kph at the bottom of the hill, just as the skin-heads rammed the car in the butt, (as they too were by then braking hard).
Thus I trundled past the cop at the cross-road intersection a 1/4 mile from the bottom of the hill, after just enough bend in the road, so that his radar caught something really fast, yet he couldn't actually see (or be seen by) anyone coming down the hill itself, so he wasn't sure (back in NZ in 1990 we didn't have very good radar guns in police cars) - such that he immediately spotted the low slung heavily modified USA V8 muscle car, trying to "look cool" who immediately after passing him, sped up again to be again nudging my bumper/towbar.
As we entered and turned into Evansdale (on the old alignment before they built a bypass behind the town) I spotted his Blues & Two's (Reds and Blues), as he flipped a U-turn and chased us down.
Immediately (as guilty as all hell) the skin heads pulled over, whereas I just calmly continued on at 90kph before slowing to 50 in the town limits.
Maybe it was because the COP had to look twice at us, (my wife & I - and our son in his rear child's seat) - as my son excitedly rose up and rapidly pouted to the car behind us - good on you son, doing what we BOTH told him to do, while we sat straight faced looking dead ahead...
Yeah Ryt, like a normal "family" - driving along in an old slow car, being caught rapidly by a modified V8 (totally overloaded with skinheads).
So - we later learnt through the grape vine, that a carload of Invercargill's worst bunch of Skinheads, had been caught doing 235kph down the Evansdale Hill (on that same day eh), who had tried very unsuccessfully to tell either the police - or the court judge later, that they couldn't possibly have been doing that, and that it was in fact, the old slow green hunter in front????
We lived in Gore at that time, so even though my wife was screaming at me to "plant foot" and get the hell outa there, I stubbornly insisted on doing JUST 90kph, the entire way back to Gore, from Evansdale (which was enough distance, to create a somewhat fast trip from Invercargill to Gore,,, on an average speed - slightly above 100kph).
As we pulled into our street in Gore, there was a VERY angry cop sitting there in his car - tapping away at his watch.!!!!
I stopped (as any good Samaritan should) beside his window and asked, has your watch stopped, do you need the time ? ? ?
You are LATE he said.!!
Late for what I asked as I (deliberately) turned around to the missus and asked (sweetly), "did we need to be somewhere at this time"?
Then turned back to him and said, we left Invercargill after shopping and doing some visiting there, so no - we aren't LATE for anything.
You are LATE he again said, as he drove away.!
Late - we were early (just) ..
Oh yes, LATE, if the cops had expected us to still be roaring along at 200kph+, so yeah LATE...!
After trundling along at 90kph and sometimes pulling to the side a LOT slower, (to let following traffic pass, that we had shot past earlier).
LATE?
Hell no I told the cop, we don't need to be anywhere today so have all the time in the world..
We never got a speeding ticket, and it wasn't all that much later - that I "permanently" took the car off the road, and deregistered it.
It wasn't just a (city driving) street sleeper, but an open-road rocket.
Not worth allowing the missus to continue with the youngster egging us on everywhere we went after that, nor to leave it licenced and registered, for when he later turned 18 and wanted to get it back "on-the-road" - for himself to drive .!!!!
Hell no.
He later went through a LOT of V8 muscle cars himself, destroying all, in high speed - drunken/drugged crashes.
So I am ever grateful to that carload of skinheads, pushing e that day - as I would possibly still be happily driving it along, at way too fast a speed.
Think of all the traffic tickets I saved by removing it from open road use, and the lives it most likely saved by not killing me or my family and anyone else we would have hit, what with the super heavily modified front end, and forward mounted steelwork, that we needed to get added up front, to allow us to get the lowered sway bar mounts welded on, somewhat forward of the motor itself, (which put the sway bar directly under the 3-layered new radiator's position).
Yet with the original bonnet down and nothing exterior to the outline of the car, it looked for all the world, to be a sunken back ended Hunter, until I pushed a wee button and an electric solenoid opened, to raise the airbag shocks at the rear, before hitting the gas , and launching it..
The amazed faces of anyone riche enough to have a high powered car, that we left behind us at street lights, and if the over took us at speed on the open road, we'd whizz past them sooner rather than later, outdoing them ... (in a hunk of junk old 1976 Hillman Hunter - on steroids).
I go simple. I run a small trailer with a 120W panel and 300w capability with external panels. Does not run off the vehicle. I don't go for more than 3 days and it's plenty of power with 100Ah lithium. Runs the fridge lights and stereo easily. Granted, we get about 320 days of full sun. I take advantage 😊
Excellent video. It explained things very clearly to me (a novice with car electricals) It showed that my auto electrician friend installed the correct "house"battery system for me.
One hard lesson I learnt is yes! Have fuses and conjure your wiring, my patrol caught on fire due to not doing this when I was in remote Cape York, lucky I had a fire extinguisher ( also carry one! ) and I still did the trip and came home with my car all sweet, I lost my wiring for my lights and my dignity but learnt a valuable lesson
Always solid advice. I would however take out the comments around fusing both ends of a cable as it's completely unnecessary, does add some voltage drop (although small) provides another point of failure. Simply fuse the source and that's all that is required. Additionally to that, I'd never recommend soldering multi stranded wire in the car as it essentially turns in to one solid core wire and is prone to cracking and breaking. Done properly, a crimped wire will outlast a soldered wire any day, one of the reasons the main earth strap is crimped for example.
I agree with everything you've just said. Most people also go way overboard when soldering wires, where it is not just the joint that gets soldered, but it flows further up the wire creating a long stiff brittle bit of wire. Crimp and quality heatshrink with glue all day.
Agreed. No solder is way better for stranded auto cable PROVIDING the right crimping tool and a QUALITY crimp lug and quality cable is used. There is nothing worse than a bad crimp hidden under the insulation of a cheap Chinese lug - if you must use cheap crap, soldering will be better even though it will most likely break at the worst possible time on a corrugated road......
Put a fuse or breaker as close to the positive terminal on both batteries because both batteries will supply current if the wire arcs out on the body. Also double insulate the cable if its long, eg going into back of ute. Ordinary garden hose is good if you plan to send a long cable through chassis cavity into back of ute. Friend of mine didnt follow that advice and had a fire in back of ute where wires went into battery box, he didnt double insulate or have a breaker on 2nd battery. Fortunately had the fire extinguisher that I gave him.
Depending only if cable wire is tinned, solder is a good option, soldered copper can cause corrosion issues later, especially in marine environments.
Well crimped and sheathed are always a better option.
I had Mercedes and it had all electric connectors crimped and soldered! So is the combination of the two a benefit, overkill or adversary??? Good question with lots of different questions! 100% does not exist, does it?
1) I live on 100watt solar panel fer little over a year now, been working good other then cloudy days. 2) I've had 2 optima red top batteries (1 in my ride, 1 for my solar) and I have both for about 7 years now. The one in my ride has been in 2 other ride before the suburban I have now.
My dual battery system was set up like your talking about when I bought my ute & most people claimed that it was wrong. I used it to jump start my ute last week and then saw this. I'm happy mine is set up this way
Your "ultimate" system is the standard setup on heavy commercial vehicles with an "electric auxiliary power unit" in the US. For example, my sleeper cab semi tractor has four parallel "dual purpose" starting/ deep cycle batteries for the normal engine/ cab/ lighting power, and four deep cycle "house" batteries. I have 4/0 (107 mm^2) between the banks and to the starter.
Greetings from ‘Merica! Found your channel last night at work and this video is hands down one of the best I have seen. I had so many questions about setting up a dual battery in my project 04 Toyota Sequoia and you nailed every single one. I’m so happy now I have hours of content to browse to get more information about what to do with my truck! Thanks again and keep these videos coming!
What a video! You should win an award for this one.
Thanks for the informative video. I don't do much off-roading, mainly towing a van. I have a small 36 Waeco fridge which sits in the back of the ute. (under an ARB Ascent canopy, so it's secure). It plugs into the Ranger's 12v outlet in the tub. However, when stopped there's no power.
So, I'm looking at a second battery setup just for the fridge.
I can go a number of different ways. Buy a lithium (LifePO4), a DC-DC charger, set it up so that it powers from the 12v outlet. Or maybe run a dedicated cable from the car battery (via a relay) to the tub to power the DC-DC unit which in turn charges the battery. And from there, a 12v outlet to power the fridge. The DC-DC unit then gives me the option of solar input when parked up.
This requires a bit of work to wire in, make cradles, brackets, etc., but is a fairly cheap way to go.
Or I can buy a suitably sized "power station" of which there are now many from which to choose. Bluetti seems to be the more popular that I've seen. This solution, costing upwards of $900 (more with a solar blanket), allows me to easily move the Bluetti and fridge from the Ranger to the wife's car for when she goes shopping and needs to keep perishable food cold.
I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this, especially from @ronny_dahl as to what folks have done.
My Ford Transit box van came with dual battery, one is for starting and the other for other stuff... But to start it needs both to be working... Just installed two 100ah AGM batteries that replaced the 75Ah original lead acid batteries. (I went for AGM because it has a hydraulic back lift that like a LOT amps...) Also have a 100w solar panel and charger that top of the battery.
For the rest of the van that is made into a camper it has a 4 battery Lifepo4 battery bank with 24v system 5000w/h capacity, 1380w solar power total on 4 panels. 2 solar chargers and a 3000w 220v inverter.
I ended up just getting a portable set up. 42ah solar generator box… 30w solar panel and a 12v car charger for it for under $600usd. Then I also got a jumper pack to jump the crank battery for about $75usd. All my charging and power needs are met and I can move it into a trailer or another vehicle easy
You and some other are good teachers. I’ve learned from scratch and DIYed my setup with the proper tool etc. When I have discussions with beginners, I referred to you, ASPW etc and if there willing, I help them instead of sending buying power box etc. My fun is their sense of achievement. Of course you need to budget time when you DIY butI think it’s part of the fun 🍻
Great video. I put a dual battery in my rig quite a while ago. It's a 'just in case' jump starter that I also use for some accessories like a fridge, small inverter, etc. I used a large solenoid for isolation that I operate with a switch. I use a SPDT relay to direct where the accessories get their power from. When the ignition is off, power comes from the second battery, when it is on, it comes from the main battery/charging circuit. I don't use a DC to DC charger. More recently I bought a portable 'power station' (Jackery). Really, this is the way to go. It charges from a 12v power outlet when the engine is running and I use it to power the fridge and such. What's really great is you can move the fridge/power pack to where you are so you don't have to keep running back to the rig.
The problems with the Jackery pro2000, are; cost - @ $3300 Aud you can build better for approx half the cost, and have way faster 12v charging, and, the 12v charging.
The pro2000 takes 24hrs to fully charge via 12v, that is its achillies heel for us. We typically only camp overnight, then drive on every day, sometimes we might only drive 1 to 2hrs to the next campsite. We like to park in shade, and there might be cloud, eventhough we have 400w of solarblankets, we dont use them much. I have 90A dcdc charging for my 260AH (3.3kwhr) LFP, and that will rechage most, if not all that was used last night for induction cooking, kettle, toaster, fridge, just driving to shops, bakery, a little sight seeing, to the next camp. We would never replenish the charge used in a Jackery pro2000, just by driving for an 1hr or 2.
I carry a 25m 240v extension cable - cook where ever we like. We could use 2 cables if distance was an issue.
Thus, for half the cost, you can put together a LFP + inverter + charge controller + cabling that will also charge in a fraction of the time.
Remember, recharging time is the achillies heel of battery powered 240v systems.
@@nordic5490 That's good info. The Jackery's are a bit pricey, although the prices have come down some with the increased competition. The nice part of building one yourself (besides saving money) is you can customize it to your needs. Also, if a component breaks you can just replace that component. Perhaps when the Jackery dies I will put something together myself. (Although the 240 I use has a great place it fits in my rig).
very very good summary. Years ago I did a dual battery setup and had to collect info from dozens of different sources on how to do it. This video is a great intro that should help avoid most pitfalls.
Absolutely agree with labelling and some kind of wiring plan for anything you have installed. If not for you (because you know what everything is... don't you?) do it for the next person who needs to work out why something electrical isn't working.
Disagree with buying everything with the same label. Learn a bit, get the performance and warranty you require and at a price that will pay for the next trip in savings.
State of Charge / Depth of Discharge are very important differences between Lead Acid and Lithium battery chemistries - check this out and compare the value! ie: how much longer can the same rated lithium battery run the same fridges/lights/pumps than comparable lead-acid batteries?
Don't bother about considering the weight difference of the different battery chemistries - you are driving a +2500kg vehicle - and unless you are moving those batteries by hand on a daily basis it's a non-issue. The electrical output and price/value far outweigh their weight.
Great presentation, thanks!
Good info. I'm new to this and in the beginning stages of modifying my 4WD Suburban. I have a single cranking battery under the hood, and will be using a 100aH lithium battery as the accessory battery that will be mounted in a compartment (removing one of the middle seats) along with the inverter, fuse box, and MPPT. I'll be using a Redarc BCDC25 charger, and will have a 175W solar panel on the roof with its own MPPT Victron controller. Thinking of using a NC relay to isolate solar when the engine is running and let the alternator take care of things, then switch to solar when the engine is not running. Hopefully this will all work out.
For the jump start fearure, i prefer to have to pop the bonnet to engage it. It makes sure i check to make sure nothing is loose or faulty. Other than a faulty or old crank battery it shouldnt be flat. Worth checking.
Back in the day the jump start feature was jumper lead from secondary to primary, none of this push button stuff.
@@Thomamps thats all I use now, anything with a computer is unreliable
Great video again. Very informative 👍 I bought my 4wd with dual battery already in and it isn’t the tidiest job, this really makes me want to get it all stripped out and start again with a good neat setup that I know is the goods.
When I had my JKU I went with the Genesis Offroad dual battery setup. It never failed me.
3 Words missing: "Lithium Jump Starter". Skip all the extra stuff you've put under the bonnet and simply carry a good quality, high powered Lithium Jump Starter like the Noco GB70. Then you can not only start your own vehicle, but start everyone else's as well.
Correct. I carry 2 cheap portable lithium jump starters @ $100each. Both have been thrashed when I had a bad starter battery, both work perfectly.
And of course, carry jumper leads. A second underbonnet battery is just unnecessary dead weight these days. Fun you fridge of LFP down the back. If you are really concerned re the winch load on your starter battery, fit a Hawker Odyssey starter battery. I have just fitted other Odyssey battery to a differenct vehicle - lasts 10yrs, can be deep cycled, FAA approved for helicopters and is used in rally cars and off shore jetski racing, so, uber reliable.
Remove that 2nd 30kg battery from uder the bonnet - better ride, handling, airflow
I have a GU Patrol, with dual crank batteries under the bonnet wired in parallel, allows extended periods of winching, plenty of CCA for starting. I have a Lithium house battery in the rear for fridge, etc. I have a fixed solar panel on the roof rack, and a Renogy 50A DC-DC charger which has 3 way charging. From Alternator to house battery, from solar to house battery, from solar to crank battery when the house battery is 100%. This removes the need for a battery isolator switch since the crank batteries are maintained virtually forever by the solar panel when the vehicle is not used for months (eg Covid isolation or working away or on long holiday).
The other (big??) con of installing a dual battery system in your vehicle (especially the more expensive systems) is that it’s pretty much permanent so when it comes to selling the vehicle, you’ve kinda gotta leave it there and won’t get the full original cost outlay return.
A fully portable system such as a Bluetti AC200 Max or Eco Flow Delta solves that issue but is not without its own drawbacks such as the taking up of valuable storage space and recharging requirements etc.
At the end of the day, horses for courses I suppose.
capacitors.. cheap light, small..
The problems with the portable units, eg the Jackery pro2000, are; cost - @ $3300 Aud you can build better for approx half the cost, and have way faster 12v charging, and, the 12v charging.
The pro2000 takes 24hrs to fully charge via 12v, that is its achillies heel for us. We typically only camp overnight, then drive on every day, sometimes we might only drive 1 to 2hrs to the next campsite. We like to park in shade, and there might be cloud, eventhough we have 400w of solarblankets, we dont use them much. I have 90A dcdc charging for my 260AH (3.3kwhr) LFP, and that will rechage most, if not all that was used last night for induction cooking, kettle, toaster, fridge, just driving to shops, bakery, a little sight seeing, to the next camp. We would never replenish the charge used in a Jackery pro2000, just by driving for an 1hr or 2.
I carry a 25m 240v extension cable - cook where ever we like. We could use 2 cables if distance was an issue.
Thus, for half the cost, you can put together a LFP + inverter + charge controller + cabling that will also charge in a fraction of the time.
Remember, recharging time is the achillies heel of battery powered 240v systems.
And, it is easy to build all of it in to a removeable crate.
A handy thing to look for in your DC/DC with MPPT or Solar Charger is the trickle charge funtion back to the crank battery. Then if you mentioned you have a solar input apmerage if camped for a few days that exceeds your fridge, lighting draw ect, when the house battery is full it will also trickle charge the crank battery :)
What models do that? How does it avoid being CO fused that the high voltage state is from charging and not just think the engine is running?
Great video, but one small comment on "don't trust crimp connections". I can assure you nothing is better than a well done crimp connection! And especially in automotive NEVER solder connections, but use propper crimp connections with the right crimping tools!
Thank you, you just saved me from making a few mistakes including wiring the lights and air compressor to my secondary battery.
For 4x4 travel, one needs to become something of a multi-faceted technician. On the vehicle, accessories, electrics, offroad driving, tech and nav integration. It takes time and effort to get there.
One item with lithium vs agm, depending on your global location lithium batteries have a fairly large drop in performance in extreme cold. Great video, I always learn a ton from your videos and looking forward to your podcast!
Eh AGM batteries also have a significant drop in performance in extreme cold, the chemical reason is exactly the same, you are slowing down the chemistry, but the electrons are still moving as fast as they ever do so you lose efficiency. The reason Lithium batteries have gotten a bad rap is because of EVs using Lithium cells where a drop in performance is extremely detrimental to your range. Where as an AGM or FLABs are mainly used as main car batteries to start an engine, where the loss in capacity is not a big deal it's the instantaneous output that you really need which isn't significantly degraded in either battery.
If I remember correctly the damage for charging during low temp is a unique to lithium batteries though as the ions get stuck on the anode side which they will get stuck there degrading the capacity of the battery and potentially causing dendrites which if they get big enough will short the cell completely ruining it, the same is not true of discharging in cold environments though, you will just get the regular drop in performance of AGM or Lithium, but the cells will recover their capacity once they warm up again.
It's a limitation of all chemical batteries, not just Lithium Ion.
Made more interesting if your BMS has both hot and cold temperature protection, the battery can be just turned off.
You can get Lithium batteries with self heating functions if you know that lots of extreme cold is in your future.
Was just going to say that, the 100ah LiFePo4 on Amazon are now often coming with a heat option for un extra $70-$100. I'm going with an Odyssey dual battery set up only because they are both in my engine bay and I don't want the added risk for China lithoum irons. Too much heat and vibration. I don't trust them just yet.
Ronny mate, I walked away from the online world a year or so ago & now I'm back. I spotted this upload & just finished watching it & I gotta say that was the perfect presentation. You've become so good at it. Very impressive & accurate too. It's good to be back & see your still at it. Full ahead brother. Mick from Vic.. 👍
Great video! Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I'm going to share it with everyone I know who is interested in multi-battery systems.
Keep in mind that the power used by a fridge isn’t constant. When the compressor is on, it could be pulling 6.5 amps (my ARB) when it’s not running it pulls 100ma. Thus the fridge isn’t always pulling high power. Depending on temperature of the inside of vehicle is how much it runs. So for solar power charging. A solar panel array producing 6 amps MAY be able to keep the battery fully charged. Again dependent on inside vehicle temp. My solar works just fine for me most months in Texas. In the summer though, I either need to drive my car for an hour a day, or add an additional 80watt portable panel. In addition to the 80watt on my roof.
A fridge usually use around 1500w for about 1-3 seconds when starting, that is around 100A on a 12v system... When it is running it uses 5 to 10A like you say. You have to account for it using 1500w during the start for a few seconds when using a inverter or generator to run the fridge.
I have been running multi battery setups since mid early 90s pretty much since I got my first van started off with a 120amp isolate and have always ran hi draw stuff off my secondary battery i have always used leadacid batteries and never had any problems my last setup had a 500amp isolater and duel alternators ran a winch 3 inverters had 4 leadacid batteries never had a problem and I ran air compressors microwave all kinds of stuff off them on a regular basis. I used my truck as a portable power station for work and for camping!!!!!
Mostly good advice, but I'm going to take issue with your comment to solder connectors.
I agree, don't just use pre-insulated crimp connectors and call it good...they are great for trackside repairs, but not great long term.
BUT...do NOT solder!
Solder wicks its way up the wires by capillary action, stiffens them up, and creates a hard point where it ends.
Over time, the wire conductors WILL fatigue and crack at that point, and the wire will fail.
Corrugated roads will dramatically increase this.
Proper heat shrink and strain relief will slow it down, but it WILL happen eventually.
1. Use good quality crimp connectors, not the ones in a multi pack from Supercheap...
2. Preferably use open barrel uninsulated connectors, and put heat shrink over the join.
3. Get a good crimper, ratchet type, designed for the type of connector you are using. $50 minimum, not the $5 cheapie.
4. Do some tests with the same type of wire, and use the tightest crimp you can do on that wire without distorting the connector. Properly done, the crimp forms a cold weld that is electrically superior to solder, and is vastly mechanically superior.
5. Use good quality dual wall glue lined heat shrink. The join will be encapsulated, waterproof, almost completely corrosion resistant, and the thick wall shrink gives good strain relief as well.
Properly done crimped joint with glue lined heat shrink will outperform.a soldered joint or a crimped and soldered joint in every way...aesthetically, mechanically, electrically, longevity, corrosion resistance, everything.
I need to get a DC to DC soon rocking a solenoid switch cuz that's what I had on and when I started the project it's kind of settled but now it's time to upgrade some components. Been trying to get all the wiring set up with quick disconnects and all that jazz or they can be easily removable or fixable. Lots of SAE and Anderson clips 😂
I had someone else install my dual battery system but ended up redoing it to fix all the flaws with it. I recommend people just do it themselves the first time. You need to know 12v stuff if you're installing 12v accessories anyway.
Ronny talking about food being spoiled out bush which is important but there is nothing worse than smelling electrical burning after you've completed some wiring. I always make sure I have a plan to fight vehicle fires!
i bought a bluetti ac180 and took it out for the first time last weekend. it was cloudy so i couldn't get as much charge off my 20w solar panels, so between my fridge and all my other crap it went dead by the morning of the last day. so now I'm thinking about putting a dual set up just to run my fridge on because i was constantly worried about running out of power. seems cheaper than buying a battery add on for the bluetti or buying another cheaper power bank
7:23 Hi! Disconnecting battery may lead you to the problems: radio lock, clock reset (not serious), GPS security tracking drainage, carputer (brains) may want to recalibrate automatic transmission. So this advice is for real rock'n-rolla.
Great video in my 80 series ute i am running 24 volts for every think so two 1000 cca cat n70 with bolt on lugs for all the car power winch all car lights sport lights start then 150 amp hour lithium to run inverter fridge camp lights with 160 w solar panel on top of roof top tent and a 110 w solar panel on car roof to do all 3 battery
The "Ultimate-Ultimate" set up: Secondary alternator to charge the house and/or auxiliary batteries (200 AH LifePO4). (Auxiliary batteries for all the auxiliary vehicle systems). This leaves the factory system intact and unaltered except for jumping. House batteries strictly for the house related systems.
Ultimate ?, maybe, but a 2nd alternator, support brackets, belts etc, is unecessary for a 200AH LFP. Many 4x4s are already factory fitted with a 200 - 250A alternator. Or, you can buy a drop in 200A replacement alternator for most vehicles.
2x 50A dcdc chargers will charge that LFP @ 100A, close to their rated max charge limit anyhow.
Hi Ronny I teach electrical apprentices and you nailed it, great info fast and fantastic production.
The prices you're quoting for this stuff is insane, Ronny. I know that Aussie ducats are cheaper than USD, but Heyseuss! I'm thinking $500 for a lithium house battery setup, but I'll do it all myself.
mostly spot on. I have , however, run breakers underhood in west texas heat for years with no issue
Im planning a dual battery set up for my FJ right now but I plan to have my deep cycle batrery at the top left away from my crank battery, wuth my dc-dc charger and fuse box and such with the deep cycle
Ronny dual starting battery under bonnet with on off switch not to be use for frig or with evergaget only for starting doble battery and on off switch
This is the most informative video on dual batteries I have watched. Thank you
I always ran a dual crank battery, (old diesels will tell you !) the batteries last a long time, you always start, and you can run decent fore and aft work lights, if they start to dim,start the motor. I don't live in the van, no need for Lithium.
If you really want to be irritating, make sure you take a small diesel powered genny ( phenomenally noisy !)
I've always had good quality classic starters hard wired, works for me but i camp simple.
It helps a lot with a simple volt meter and understanding of the chemistry / state of charge.
Thanks Ronny, easiest and best explanation I've heard since.... well since your last video. My point is, they're bloody great videos.
2x210ah lifepo4 here in parallel 12v system in my van. Single battery 250a bms discharge rate won't power a decent inverter hence duals are absolutely necessary in my application.
I'me a truck driver. I use a 12v 400AH LiFePO4 aux battery. During a normal run, I rarely fire up the generator. The battery can power the desktop computer, including gaming, for a few hours before I shut it down and go to sleep. Wake up with about 50% left. This powers the fridge, the 24/7 6 camera DVR system plus any misc 12v low power items. Well worth the $$$ over time as they will last over 10 years of daily use. Plus reduce maintenance on the generator as it hardly runs. I only run it when shutdown for a day or two. Most drivers can get away with 200AH, but I run a full desktop system plus other items that will drain a 200AH overnight. Nice thing about LiFePO4 is it is totally safe for indoor install. They do not gas at all. Mine is under the area under the bed. All LiFePO4 I know of is rated for install in living areas. Only draw back is never ever charge at or below freezing. Most BCMs will prevent charging when near or below freezing.
Heat derates wiring, making it more resistive (lossy, greater volt drop, etc). Eg, you should run a bigger guage in the hottest part of the engine bay. Eg, my setup is 90A dcdc, I ran 2AWG (32 or 35mm2) between the alternator and the fuse mounted away from the heat, then 5m of 3 guage to the 2x dcdc charge controllers. Works great. Remember, heat directly near the engine, especially on the exhaust side, derates the wiring - use a bigger guage.
Thanks a lot!
I'm just getting into overlanding and building my first rig. I would love to have an amazing battery setup..... but idk why i would need one yet lol.
My current plan is to get out there and see what i want/ need and take care of it then
If you only camp once or twice a year a cheap battery box setup is going to be better than dragging along a genny.
Or if you only are running a fridge and a water tank/light.
Anything is better than a generator at a camp site, but agreed, a portable box is most logical
I’d rather eat dirt than use a generator.
I use both but I’m far from civilization
@@joshburke4083you’ll need to recharge the battery box by the second day , especially running a fridge. Solar or Generator
I love this equipment tips series!! Thanks Ronny!!
need to mention high amperage circuit breakers ..... can get from 50 amps to 500amps? put one on each main power cable next to each battery as a fail safe incase a main cable rubs through on body work ... only cost 50 bucks each.. they also double as a battery isolator if your truck is parked up for weeks or months.... i learnt the hard way.... a weeks work pulling dash apart after a wire went rouge in engine bay and rubbed against my exhaust pipe then melted half the wires in my dash.. took my truck to a specialist mechanic for heart surgery, 2 weeks after i dropped of to them, they started selling instalation kits exactly how mine was made and installed
I am not a fan of soldering wires. If there is a decent amount of movement. I think wago connectors would work, or if you solder the wires at least add some strain relief to keep the connection area from moving around too much. You forgot to mention that people need to double, or triple check all connections before the battery is connected to the system. Same goes for other ways power comes in to charge the batteries, or run the system.
Great video though. Lots of really good information for anyone looking to add accessories.
The best information on battery systems I have watched
I’ve been running the Same Bosch AGM 100 amp hour battery pack for the last six years 🤔 It lived on a trickle charger at first.lives pretty much in the back of the lux connected to a 160 watt solar panel now with a MPPT controller unit I mainly use it on the fridge with a water pressure pump at times when we go away weekends or the odd camp trip.I was considering going Lithium as I think this agm battery could be on its way out. I’m yet to get it tested,it lost nearly 10% of its charge the other day when I kicked the fridge up on a warm day before we went away.Not sure if I should get another agm or lithium,was considering a DC to Dc charger also. 🧐 Pretty sure my agm box isn’t compatible with a lithium battery. Interesting video. We r considering buying a van later on down the track also. Not sure which way to go.
Had dual batteries under the hood of the PRADO 95 series 1KZ
Used the jumpstart link once in 4 years and had to break out the lithium jump pack anyways 😆
So removed the second starter AGM and used that side for an air compressor with a heat shield 🛡️ to separate the hot air from the engine bay and ran the fuse block and wiring in the Second battery location and then slapped in the house battery 50AH in the back of the wagon when the price was over $700 for 50AH
Yup, recently I had a bad starter battery, and my 2 cheap lithium jump starters got thrashed, but worked perfectly.
Normal liquid lead acid vs AGM vs Lithium pls. Also go into the cons when going into extreme cold weather. Ty for the cool videos
Using a True dual battery isolator provides several advantages:
Reliable Battery Management:
Automatically ensures the starting battery is charged first, then charges the auxiliary battery, preventing the main battery from draining and ensuring reliable engine starts (True Battery Isolator).
No Voltage Drop:
Unlike traditional diode isolators, True isolators have no voltage drop, maintaining optimal charging efficiency (True Battery Isolator).
Dual Sensing Technology:
Monitors the voltage of both batteries and engages charging for both if either battery is receiving a charge, which is particularly useful when using external chargers (True Battery Isolator).
Durable and Compact Design:
Built to withstand harsh conditions with features like waterproofing, heat resistance, and anti-vibration casing, ensuring longevity and reliability in various environments (True Battery Isolator) (True Battery Isolator).
Easy Installation:
Simple three-wire installation without the need to bypass existing alternator wiring, making it user-friendly even for novice installers (True Battery Isolator).
Cost-Effective Solution:
Provides a budget-friendly way to manage dual battery setups effectively, offering long-term savings by extending battery life and preventing failures (True Battery Isolator).
Safety Features:
Includes ignition protection and operates within a wide temperature range, enhancing the safety of your vehicle’s electrical system (True Battery Isolator).
Overall, the True dual battery isolator enhances the reliability, efficiency, and longevity of a dual battery system in various applications, from trucks to boats and RVs. For more details, visit the dfna dot info website.
Good tip about circuit breakers. We found that out the hard way too 😮
Instead of a second under bonnet battery. Connect a 100Farad Super Capacitor to the starter battery. Disconnect when not in use. Use a super capacitor jump starter in the case of emergencies. The super capacitors can charge from a dead battery and start your car. The jump starter can charge in five minutes from your house battery or solar panel, to add yet another starting source.
Excellent video and easy to understand explanations, thankyou Ronny.
My aussie made century agm deep cycle secondary battery has been in my troopy from new 2007 till now and still going strong. If you know how to maintain your battery it will last for a very long time.
Tips on how to maintain?
@@barbaraoliveira9753 Hi Barbara, firstly make sure the battery is securely fitted. A closed cell foam rubber mat under the battery help a lot for damping the effects of vibration. Keep the the terminal posts and terminals clean and secure, also make sure the cables and wiring to those battery terminal are also secure as loose cables can add to the effect of vibration to the terminals and can damage the cables. When the vehicle is not being used for periods keep it connected to a charger that has a maintenance feature (basically will trickle charge when required) I do this with all my batteries on my vehicles and boats. So this is a bit of preventative maintenance and on going battery maintenance. And hope it helps.
Love your videos Ronny , Ive had a Lithium second bat installed to the rear of the crank bat in a 76 series for 6yrs with out any problems
Question: setup includes 1 agm starting battery and 2 lithium house batteries... I wish to add a secondary starting battery for colder weather. Would you just add the secondary starting battery non-isolated parallel... or would you recommend another way. Vehicle is 2000 E450 ambulance conversion with 640w solar on roof
I would love you to discuss with me what I need. Especially as a single Women driving, solo in an SUV.
There’s so many of us out there and we are willing to pay for this kind of advice.
It’s the ONLY reason I’ve delayed doing a Duel system.
Every salesman is just about sales not about what’s actually going to suit our needs.
Great info Ronny, especially like the jump start switch 5:59. My question is: it possible to run a single 200 Ah 4 post lithium battery for crank and house. I have a vintage Mitz 4cyl diesel, 2000W inverter, 120W Solar blanket and a 1700 gas generator as (boon docking) emerg. The reason is; I need the extra space. The battery I’m thinking of is a LiLead with plenty of cranking amps.
I’ve asked many RUclipsrs and bat manufacturers but can’t get a straight answer.
Why lithium? I have a "car" AGM battery and a pair of (deep cycle) marine AGM batteries on a separate circuit. The switch on my dash connects or disconnects them from each other to either recharge the boat batteries or jump the primary. The winch, flood lights, and inverter//welder all run from the secondary and I can just join the circuits if need be.
my Nissan Terrano 1995 r3m was factory dual battery all i did was add a solar system. ....i add i ran a lymack fridge sorry for spelling it was 75ltr with built in inverter. Used this for across Australia and family tourer. sold her the new owner destroyed her....also add had a 95 amphr alternator. so mine was set up old school big gel batteries and never lost a battery or lost my cold food build it right will last .......
I'm glad I ran across this video, I am currently installing 6 12 inch Sundown Audio subs, but I don't know near as much about 12v setups as you do. This video answered a couple of questions I had about which and how many batteries to install. I am however installing a 400A alternator to help juice the bat's, and hopefully that'll be enough to do the job.
one thing about brand compatibility, that only applies to automative parts. Once you start going into electricals not related to your car just pick whats most compatible because brand packages will always be a bad deal for you and will try to push things you dont need. Its just down to researching what you need. For example getting the right battery charger for the battery you use such as the right time of lead or lithium not just the type. you can still make a mistake mismatching parts from the same brand. With electrics all the parts care is they have the right voltage and the needed amps can be provided. I dont do any dual battery stuff for cars but i still carry a jumpstarter powerbank even when i just drive around in the city as i have seen other people stranded. You should've mentioned a 3 battery system. I noticed that your auxillary battery is very small, but a 24V is far better and many common systems accept 24V even with solar. You reduce weight needing less cables but you need to remember to avoid mixing where you shouldnt. You can still link up the batteries in parallel to the car for charging and jumping while having it in series at the same time for 24V. For inverters, 24V is more efficient than 12V. If you rely on powering stuff, 24V will do a lot better for high power things and for inverters.
Where i live, gel lead acids are far far cheaper than lithiums. they cost 3x cheaper for the same capacity. I have a UPS rated at 1KW (not KVA) that takes 2 and these batteries have a rated initial current at 2.1A so even gel batteries can provide quite some amps just not sudden like starting a car. Theres are the types meant to power devices so are fine being drained further. a small 12V 7AH battery here costs a few australian dollars equivalent. However i find some UPS dont like adding more batteries in parallel as 1 errors every few hours. There are far more options for auxiliary batteries than you mentioned that are small and can be added in areas usually not used far away from the engine bay.
Shouldn't the battery disconnect be on the negative side? also, what did you use that surrounds your electrical panel… I.e. where your fuse block is, your wire is going to some kind of channel that's mounted behind your seat… is that just square plastic conduit that you attached to a mounting board / rack mount cable management?
Some general comments, and I claim no expertise nor much time camping. But this is what I have:
*100Ah AGM battery, half price from Aldi for $100
*Connected directly to the start battery (engine bay of 80 series LC) via a Voltage Sensitive Relay (do disconnect the batteries below a preset voltage) and a 100A circuit breaker.
*Both those parts from Jaycar for not many $ and mounted in front of the radiator support panel ie low risk of overheating the parts.
*Rear 12v outlets and any camping accessories are run off the AGM battery.
*That has been in the car for 4 years now. Doesn't get much use but still functioning, and for total parts cost of
#2 Jumping the battery from the auxiliary battery what parts are involved?
and I have a small Metabo HPT EC28M air compressor Power 120V / 60Hz Amps 2.8 Induction Motor HP 0.5 will an inverter work off the auxiliary battery? What size inverter? I am looking at a deep cycle AGM battery for the auxiliary battery. Because of the cold days where I live the lithium batteries are not a good idea. I am going to have the compressor and jumper cables to help people out like a roadside assistant situation.
I would also recommend seeing if your engine has a place to mount a second alternator to charge a secondary battery. Then if both batterys are low when you drive they will both charge up quickly.
The reason people put their fuses right on or near the battery is because the wire between battery and fuse isn't fused. That 2 meters of wire you have running all the way round your engine bay to the "convenient" and pretty looking fuse block is unfused and if it shorts it'll burn your truck down. Great advice.
you have one big power wire with a master fuse right near the battery and the individual circuit have their own smaller fuses
^ this. Battery to mega fuse, mega fuse to supply midi fuses/fuse panel.
My Dodge Cummins came with two batteries from the factory, diesels are harder to crank, and in the cold even worse, you have to have extra power for the heater grid or glow plugs that take a lot of power and you have to wait to crank till they heat up to air so it will fire up, it would kill one battery quick
2 suggestions if possible mount crank batteries out of engine area. Engine heat is bad for batteries. Next for crank batteries be sure you get the highest quality and gage of cabling. Use cabling similar to welding ground cables.