"Show firm faith in what the Church of Christ has established, either through the Apostolic Canons and traditions, or through the Ecumenical and Local Synods, not admitting at all the innovative theories of the moderns, who have already bid farewell for the most part to the conscience and the love of God, they teach new doctrines, according to their pleasure, and instead of supporting the believers in piety, they be- come subverters of the divine preaching and piety." St. Daniel of Katounakia A letter to a Theology Student
Oh, this is wonderful. The idea, that the Lord speaks through the canons, is a revelation to me. And, as i listened to how a shepherd of the church applies those in economia, i also got a small glimpse into the weight that a priest or a bishop carries in that regard. An almost unbearable weight were not the Grace of Our Lord given to them.
Vladyka, i have only watched the first 3 minutes. I am pausing for a moment to say 'thank you ' to whomever found that perfect icon of Jesus to emphasize the very point you were making. Beautifully positioned to more firmly support your words.
Vladyka, i just came across a video, made about a month ago, by a young, lovely, soft-spoken black woman, about why she is an Orthodox Christian. (Her name is Jasmyne...). Very well presented.. many excellent comments below it. But several detractors as well, with the usual criticisms and talking points. One, in particular, said that no one should listen to her because the Orthodox Church can't get its act together [my words] about how to receive previously-baptized converts.. Someone even used the word ECONOMIA in their argument. Such comments cause me deep heartache.. for the struggles the Orthodox Church is going through and for the sake of those who might hesitate to become part of it after such criticism. I had watched your video only a few hours ago, and i was made much more deeply aware of how important your words are here.. I have made no comment on the other site yet. Will pray about it. Amazing how deflating those exchanges were. I may even suggest they visit your words on the subject. I thought you might like to know that. It's the first time i have noticed that argument being made against converting to the Church. Lord, have mercy.
🔥Grace and 🕊️Peace to you Sayedna! O'Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner.... .....Most Holy Theotokos save us! 🇺🇸🇬🇧🇪🇺 FEAST of Saint James, 2023 Anno Domini☦️
I hope you can help me. I have just recently become an orthodox catechist. I was baptised as a baby in the Catholic Church, completed my holy communion & confirmation as a Catholic. Later at the age of 19 I converted to Protestantism and was made to be baptised as they believed my prior baptism was not valid. My priest at the Orthodox Church I’ve been attending has informed me that I shouldn’t be baptised but instead chrismated into the Church. A few priests on RUclips have spoken against this and say you need to be baptised regardless. Have you any advice on what I should do?
@@orthodoxphronesisROCOR does not rebaptise everyone despite the infiltration of the likes of Peter Heers. It’s a new phenomenon that is infiltrating the Church. The Book of Needs (Trebnik) which has been in use and practiced by the Russian Church pre-revolutionary times, tells exactly how to accept converts from other Christian denominations and is in line with the Nicene Creed: I believe in one baptism. Baptism in itself does not join you to the Church but rather Chrismation. Stop making comments based on the new internet priests like Heers because you have no idea what you are talking about. In Christ, fr. John
@@orthodoxphronesisYou are absolutely correct! Sadly many so called clergy don't know real Orthodox teaching and fall for the modern heresy of ecumenism. They naysay and mock a canonical Archpriest in good standing due to their blindness and even arrogance. I'm glad ROCOR is baptizing all. That's what my Parish does. The ROC needs to stop the ecumenism and become more like ROCOR.
Let’s get to the heart of the matter: is Trinitarian baptism valid outside of the Orthodox Church , if no is corrective baptism required? Furthermore if a catechumen is received into a canonical church via chrismation , is that invalid? This video’s doesn’t really address these issues directly.
No it isn't "valid" (something either is or isn't, no valid or invalid). If economia is used, Chrismation fills in the grace absent in the dunking (or pouring) outside of the Church. However, there is no reason to use economia on this now as most heterodox groups do not immerse thrice.
If you, like me, are a convert to Orthodoxy, brought in by chrismation without rebaptism, please understand that the responsibility for that decision is on your priest and Bishop . Do your best to be obediant to your shepherd(s) and God will give you grace. Ignore the other shepherds' voices.
It isn't rebaptism, it is just baptism as baptism is only in the Church. If economia is granted to one coming into the Church (should only apply to those previously triple immersed) then Chrismation would fill in the grace lacking in the previous dipping/pouring to make it baptism. The consensus of the Saints is to baptize all. Even blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose who was only Chrismated into Orthodoxy baptized all of his converts. It is very important as baptism is triple immersion (thrice pouring in emergency), not once which is Eunomianism. We have one immersion into the death of Christ, one into the burial of Christ and one into the Resurrection of Christ. This is also in the Name of the Holy Trinity. If I were to be Chrismated instead of baptized into Orthodoxy, I would plead for baptism, which should be granted. It does one no good to just accept something when they know it is not right. I'm very glad I was baptized without having to ask, however, as we get our guardian angel through baptism in the Church, and are infused with God's uncreated grace.
Greatful for this kind and wise voice of clarity. Thank you. Lord have mercy.
God bless Bishop Irinei!!!
Thank you Vladika I think I require all three.
"Show firm faith in what the Church of Christ has
established, either through the Apostolic Canons and
traditions, or through the Ecumenical and Local
Synods, not admitting at all the innovative theories
of the moderns, who have already bid farewell for the
most part to the conscience and the love of God, they
teach new doctrines, according to their pleasure, and
instead of supporting the believers in piety, they be-
come subverters of the divine preaching and piety."
St. Daniel of Katounakia
A letter to a Theology Student
Thank you, Bishop Irinei for explaining the concept of Economia. I never understood it before.
My eyes are affixed to the Icon of St. John of Shanghai.
May you continue Vladika's Works and the Lord's Will in Western Europe!
"There is a place for speaking softly." Thank you, Master.
Oh, this is wonderful. The idea, that the Lord speaks through the canons, is a revelation to me.
And, as i listened to how a shepherd of the church applies those in economia, i also got a small glimpse into the weight that a priest or a bishop carries in that regard. An almost unbearable weight were not the Grace of Our Lord given to them.
Vladyka, i have only watched the first 3 minutes. I am pausing for a moment to say 'thank you ' to whomever found that perfect icon of Jesus to emphasize the very point you were making.
Beautifully positioned to more firmly support your words.
Vladyka, i just came across a video, made about a month ago, by a young, lovely, soft-spoken black woman, about why she is an Orthodox Christian. (Her name is Jasmyne...).
Very well presented.. many excellent comments below it.
But several detractors as well, with the usual criticisms and talking points. One, in particular, said that no one should listen to her because the Orthodox Church can't get its act together [my words] about how to receive previously-baptized converts..
Someone even used the word ECONOMIA in their argument.
Such comments cause me deep heartache.. for the struggles the Orthodox Church is going through and for the sake of those who might hesitate to become part of it after such criticism.
I had watched your video only a few hours ago, and i was made much more deeply aware of how important your words are here..
I have made no comment on the other site yet. Will pray about it.
Amazing how deflating those exchanges were.
I may even suggest they visit your words on the subject.
I thought you might like to know that. It's the first time i have noticed that argument being made against converting to the Church. Lord, have mercy.
🔥Grace and 🕊️Peace to you Sayedna!
O'Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner....
.....Most Holy Theotokos save us! 🇺🇸🇬🇧🇪🇺
FEAST of Saint James, 2023 Anno Domini☦️
EXCELLENTLY SAID. !!!
Very deep
thanks
Amen.
I hope you can help me. I have just recently become an orthodox catechist. I was baptised as a baby in the Catholic Church, completed my holy communion & confirmation as a Catholic. Later at the age of 19 I converted to Protestantism and was made to be baptised as they believed my prior baptism was not valid. My priest at the Orthodox Church I’ve been attending has informed me that I shouldn’t be baptised but instead chrismated into the Church. A few priests on RUclips have spoken against this and say you need to be baptised regardless. Have you any advice on what I should do?
@@orthodoxphronesisROCOR does not rebaptise everyone despite the infiltration of the likes of Peter Heers. It’s a new phenomenon that is infiltrating the Church. The Book of Needs (Trebnik) which has been in use and practiced by the Russian Church pre-revolutionary times, tells exactly how to accept converts from other Christian denominations and is in line with the Nicene Creed: I believe in one baptism. Baptism in itself does not join you to the Church but rather Chrismation. Stop making comments based on the new internet priests like Heers because you have no idea what you are talking about.
In Christ,
fr. John
@@orthodoxphronesisYou are absolutely correct! Sadly many so called clergy don't know real Orthodox teaching and fall for the modern heresy of ecumenism. They naysay and mock a canonical Archpriest in good standing due to their blindness and even arrogance. I'm glad ROCOR is baptizing all. That's what my Parish does. The ROC needs to stop the ecumenism and become more like ROCOR.
❤❤❤
Algorithm boost.
Let’s get to the heart of the matter: is Trinitarian baptism valid outside of the Orthodox Church , if no is corrective baptism required? Furthermore if a catechumen is received into a canonical church via chrismation , is that invalid? This video’s doesn’t really address these issues directly.
No it isn't "valid" (something either is or isn't, no valid or invalid). If economia is used, Chrismation fills in the grace absent in the dunking (or pouring) outside of the Church. However, there is no reason to use economia on this now as most heterodox groups do not immerse thrice.
THE HOLY SPIRIT CANNOT BE SABOTAGE BY ANY WHOM MAY HE WAS. ECONOMIA IS THE STREAM OF THE TRIUNE GOD...IN AND FOR HIS CHURCH......AMEN.
If you, like me, are a convert to Orthodoxy, brought in by chrismation without rebaptism, please understand that the responsibility for that decision is on your priest and Bishop . Do your best to be obediant to your shepherd(s) and God will give you grace. Ignore the other shepherds' voices.
It isn't rebaptism, it is just baptism as baptism is only in the Church. If economia is granted to one coming into the Church (should only apply to those previously triple immersed) then Chrismation would fill in the grace lacking in the previous dipping/pouring to make it baptism. The consensus of the Saints is to baptize all. Even blessed Fr. Seraphim Rose who was only Chrismated into Orthodoxy baptized all of his converts.
It is very important as baptism is triple immersion (thrice pouring in emergency), not once which is Eunomianism. We have one immersion into the death of Christ, one into the burial of Christ and one into the Resurrection of Christ. This is also in the Name of the Holy Trinity.
If I were to be Chrismated instead of baptized into Orthodoxy, I would plead for baptism, which should be granted. It does one no good to just accept something when they know it is not right. I'm very glad I was baptized without having to ask, however, as we get our guardian angel through baptism in the Church, and are infused with God's uncreated grace.
❤️🕊️🇵🇸💪🙏☦️ GOD BLESS ☦️🙏💪🇵🇸🕊️❤️🔥
Amen