Hi Marc and Todd! Thank you once again for the tutorial video! It shows firmly why Expobar Brewtus owner should no bother with the question: "I should have known better before I pay for Expobar Brewtus?" Thank you Todd for your contribution in Brewtus development! This is an excellent machine!
Nice comparison vid. For me the shot timer on the Profitec is a little thing that makes a big difference, I've been using the Profitec Pro 600 for a few weeks recently to create my review, and the shot timer is a great feature. By the way, you made me very happy when you cleaned those steam wands, I was starting to get nervous that you were going to leave them, but then you grabbed a cloth and I breathed a sigh of relief ;-).
Hi ukcb, Thanks for the comment! Glad we made you happy with the wand cleaning. Every once in awhile we cut bits like purge and wipe of wand for time and people do notice! Shot timer is a nice feature. Rocket Espresso has for years been resistant to having visible digital display on the face of their machines. They have capitulated with recent upgrades to their HX boiler machines. Type Vs and EVO R's (Mozzafiato and Giotto) now include a very small and subtle shot timer on the face. Working on a video review of those machines now - the Cronometros Marc
Hi guys! I am waiting for Todd's comment about verticaly mounted rotary pump as in Alex Duetto and QM DB ew Vetrano machines! Thank you! Once again my Brewtus IV is excelle t machine! Thank you, Todd a out the engineering and design!!! :-)
+Petar Rusev Hi Petar, Here are Todd's comments on vertical pump: I have no issue with the way the pump is mounted and have not heard about any problems with them. Note: The motor may or may not be of a special design so that the bearing can handle the vertical mount but I just don't know.
Congarulations, Todd and Mike! :) More and more I am convinced that Expobar is an excellent choice! I am absolutelly sure that its Copper 1.7 (1.5 + 0.2 HX tube inside) bolier has better temperature stability than Pro700 and R58! :)) Within this price range, I think that Alex Duetto III is the best one - highest quality thick copper boilers, nice engineering inside and whole SS frame! I still cannot believe how R58 could be 100 USD higher than AD, because both machines are incomparable?! Please, post a video with comparison between Brewtus IV with vibration pump and this with rotation pump! I want to be calm that my model with water tank can make at least the same quality espresso shot as those poured by rotation pump model! :)) Thank you guys!
+Petar Rusev Marc, excuse me, please, about the typo! I forget to include QM New Vetrano DB PID - another excellent machine in the row. But, the design and engineering of AD is # 1!
+Petar Rusev Hi Petar, Always enjoy your comments. Thanks!!! And here's a link to the video comparing Brewtus IV machines: ruclips.net/video/VoMPuYFMt7s/видео.html
Hi Petar, We have not forgotten. Our priority at the moment are Tech Support videos. Your request is still on our to do list. Unfortunately, only so many hours in a day!
I found if you come from a lower end slower steaming machine and have issues steaming with a more powerful HX machine or one of these dual boilers, The less holes or smaller hole steam tips are much easier to use, it steams a lot slower. It seems to make more of a difference than adjusting the steam pressure (steam boiler temp) even.
Hey Ben, Thanks for the comment. Steam hole size and number of holes does make a big difference. Not unusual at all for those coming from less powerful machines to be a bit overwhelmed with more steam on HX or DB machines. After awhile most everyone appreciates more steam pressure.
Hi, great review Todd. I am deciding between a Expobar IV and a Lelit Mara with PID, could you do a review of these 2 machines? Many thanks and compliments again for the informative videos.
very nice and useful comparison guys! love your channel! just a quick question, wich manufacturer first introduced this design?(i'm only referring to the exterior look here). because they all have a similar designs: rocket, profitech, bezzera, quick mill and i was not able to find any info on that.
Hi r, Thanks for the comment and question - we do our best! So not entirely certain which company originated the general look. Of those you mentioned I'm fairly certain Bezzera has been around the longest.
Hi Albert, Thanks for the question. Yes brew pressure is adjustable on all these machines. For models with a rotary pump it's adjustable on the pump. For machines with vibration pump brew pressure is adjustable at the OPV - Over Pressure Valve. Here's a video showing how that's done on both pump types: ruclips.net/video/u9oUiJjqp7U/видео.html Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you so much. I found that video and have basically made up my mind. Only challenge is that it is not sold in South Africa. I am looking at 2 stores in the Netherlands. Mailed them and await a reply. I have to add VAT and 20% on top of that. Have been using a Gaggia Classic for 7 years or so.
If I can get 10% off my order for a Profitec pro 700, Eureka Mignon Grinder and some accessories, I will buy right now. Todd or Mark can you hook that up?
Hi UM, I'd hook up everyone if I could! Best bet for package is to give us a call at 585-924-7170 and talk to sales. If you're going Pro 700 definitely go with the Flow Control: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-with-flow-control Marc
Great review!! Have you guys done a comparison with same coffee/grinder?? I'm wondering if there are any clear winners or are they all very similar?? Specifically interested how the expobar does against the pricier machines.
Hi Jim, Thanks for the comment and questions. We have used all these machines extensively. It's always difficult to characterize flavor traits due to subjective nature. We can have 4 people tasting same coffee from same grinder and get 4 different opinions. But some general notes on these machines... Profitec Pro 700: It can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. Rocket and Expobar cannot as they have solenoid valves on the plumbed connection that only open when the pump is operating. Since this video was made in 2015 the Pro 700 has been upgraded. New PID and pressure relief valve allow steam boiler temp up to 270F - close to 2bar pressure so more steaming power. Also like the shot timer. Expobar Brewtus: It's a rock solid machine. It doesn't have the refined externals of the Pro 700 or R58 but we do like (disclaimer Todd was involved in the development of this machine with Expobar) the heat exchanger in the service boiler feeding source water into the brew boiler. Also like the chamber milled into the E61 behind the shower screen. This allows for more pre-wetting of the coffee prior to full pressure brewing. And, with the extra chamber brew pressure ramps up more gradually than your typical rotary pump machine. The Brewtus is every bit as capable brewing espresso as the other machines. If looking for value it's hard to beat Expobar! R58: It's the "sexy" one of the bunch. Heavy on the branding. It's a bit more complex internally than the other machines. Some people like the detachable PID controller to keep the face free of digital display and some do not. It's a general design decision Rocket has made. In their other PID machines they hide the display behind the drip tray. Rocket also choose to use/show actual brew boiler temp on PID controller. The other machines use an offset as brew boiler always runs hotter than what you get at the group when brewing. With this setup, setting brew temp requires consulting a chart in the manual. To answer your question is there a clear winner... It depends on what you are looking for. IMO they break down like this: Expobar wins for value. Pro 700 wins on steam pressure, internal design and the ability to finesse extractions with line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. R58 wins in the WOW dept. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions! Marc
Dear WLL guys, Please, make presentation of Alex Duetto 3.0! Comparisson with Rocket R58, Profitec Pro700 and Expobar Brewtus IV-R is highly appreciated! Thank you for your time! Dimitar
Hi Jay, Thanks for the comment. The Expobar definitely lacking refinement in the case details but it's built like a tank and is capable of producing espresso every bit as good as the others. And, it cost a whole latte less! In terms of engineering, The Profitec Pro 700 is the clear winner with simple hydraulics using high quality components. The Expobar is a reliable workhorse and the Rocket R58 has rather complex internals which introduce more points of failure should the machine be neglected.
Hi Marc and Todd! Thank you once again for the tutorial video! It shows firmly why Expobar Brewtus owner should no bother with the question: "I should have known better before I pay for Expobar Brewtus?" Thank you Todd for your contribution in Brewtus development! This is an excellent machine!
+Petar Rusev Hi Petar, You are welcome! Glad you are enjoying your Brewtus.
+Whole Latte Love My pleasure! Waiting for Todd's toughts about vertical pump design plus Alex Duetto review. :-)
Nice comparison vid. For me the shot timer on the Profitec is a little thing that makes a big difference, I've been using the Profitec Pro 600 for a few weeks recently to create my review, and the shot timer is a great feature. By the way, you made me very happy when you cleaned those steam wands, I was starting to get nervous that you were going to leave them, but then you grabbed a cloth and I breathed a sigh of relief ;-).
Hi ukcb, Thanks for the comment! Glad we made you happy with the wand cleaning. Every once in awhile we cut bits like purge and wipe of wand for time and people do notice! Shot timer is a nice feature. Rocket Espresso has for years been resistant to having visible digital display on the face of their machines. They have capitulated with recent upgrades to their HX boiler machines. Type Vs and EVO R's (Mozzafiato and Giotto) now include a very small and subtle shot timer on the face. Working on a video review of those machines now - the Cronometros
Marc
Hi guys! I am waiting for Todd's comment about verticaly mounted rotary pump as in Alex Duetto and QM DB ew Vetrano machines! Thank you! Once again my Brewtus IV is excelle t machine! Thank you, Todd a out the engineering and design!!! :-)
+Petar Rusev Hi Petar, Here are Todd's comments on vertical pump:
I have no issue with the way the pump is mounted and have not heard about any problems with them.
Note: The motor may or may not be of a special design so that the bearing can handle the vertical mount but I just don't know.
Congarulations, Todd and Mike! :) More and more I am convinced that Expobar is an excellent choice! I am absolutelly sure that its Copper 1.7 (1.5 + 0.2 HX tube inside) bolier has better temperature stability than Pro700 and R58! :)) Within this price range, I think that Alex Duetto III is the best one - highest quality thick copper boilers, nice engineering inside and whole SS frame! I still cannot believe how R58 could be 100 USD higher than AD, because both machines are incomparable?!
Please, post a video with comparison between Brewtus IV with vibration pump and this with rotation pump! I want to be calm that my model with water tank can make at least the same quality espresso shot as those poured by rotation pump model! :)) Thank you guys!
+Petar Rusev Marc, excuse me, please, about the typo! I forget to include QM New Vetrano DB PID - another excellent machine in the row. But, the design and engineering of AD is # 1!
+Petar Rusev Hi Petar, Always enjoy your comments. Thanks!!! And here's a link to the video comparing Brewtus IV machines: ruclips.net/video/VoMPuYFMt7s/видео.html
+Whole Latte Love Hi guys You promised to make a video with Alex Duetto! This is a kind reminder that I am still waiting!
Hi Petar, We have not forgotten. Our priority at the moment are Tech Support videos. Your request is still on our to do list. Unfortunately, only so many hours in a day!
+Whole Latte Love Thank you guys! I know that you are serious! 😃
I found if you come from a lower end slower steaming machine and have issues steaming with a more powerful HX machine or one of these dual boilers, The less holes or smaller hole steam tips are much easier to use, it steams a lot slower. It seems to make more of a difference than adjusting the steam pressure (steam boiler temp) even.
Hey Ben, Thanks for the comment. Steam hole size and number of holes does make a big difference. Not unusual at all for those coming from less powerful machines to be a bit overwhelmed with more steam on HX or DB machines. After awhile most everyone appreciates more steam pressure.
Hi, great review Todd. I am deciding between a Expobar IV and a Lelit Mara with PID, could you do a review of these 2 machines? Many thanks and compliments again for the informative videos.
Hi Carlo, You are welcome. Unfortunately can't do a compare as we do not carry nor have a Lelit Mara on hand.
FYI: Stainless Steel is one of the easiest metals to weld..
Brazing Copper and Brass is 10X harder
very nice and useful comparison guys! love your channel!
just a quick question, wich manufacturer first introduced this design?(i'm only referring to the exterior look here). because they all have a similar designs: rocket, profitech, bezzera, quick mill and i was not able to find any info on that.
Hi r, Thanks for the comment and question - we do our best! So not entirely certain which company originated the general look. Of those you mentioned I'm fairly certain Bezzera has been around the longest.
Guys, but what about brew pressure? Adjustable on these machines?
Hi Albert, Thanks for the question. Yes brew pressure is adjustable on all these machines. For models with a rotary pump it's adjustable on the pump. For machines with vibration pump brew pressure is adjustable at the OPV - Over Pressure Valve. Here's a video showing how that's done on both pump types: ruclips.net/video/u9oUiJjqp7U/видео.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you so much. I found that video and have basically made up my mind. Only challenge is that it is not sold in South Africa. I am looking at 2 stores in the Netherlands. Mailed them and await a reply. I have to add VAT and 20% on top of that. Have been using a Gaggia Classic for 7 years or so.
If I can get 10% off my order for a Profitec pro 700, Eureka Mignon Grinder and some accessories, I will buy right now. Todd or Mark can you hook that up?
Hi UM, I'd hook up everyone if I could! Best bet for package is to give us a call at 585-924-7170 and talk to sales. If you're going Pro 700 definitely go with the Flow Control: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
Marc
Great review!!
Have you guys done a comparison with same coffee/grinder??
I'm wondering if there are any clear winners or are they all very similar??
Specifically interested how the expobar does against the pricier machines.
Hi Jim, Thanks for the comment and questions. We have used all these machines extensively. It's always difficult to characterize flavor traits due to subjective nature. We can have 4 people tasting same coffee from same grinder and get 4 different opinions. But some general notes on these machines...
Profitec Pro 700: It can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. Rocket and Expobar cannot as they have solenoid valves on the plumbed connection that only open when the pump is operating. Since this video was made in 2015 the Pro 700 has been upgraded. New PID and pressure relief valve allow steam boiler temp up to 270F - close to 2bar pressure so more steaming power. Also like the shot timer.
Expobar Brewtus: It's a rock solid machine. It doesn't have the refined externals of the Pro 700 or R58 but we do like (disclaimer Todd was involved in the development of this machine with Expobar) the heat exchanger in the service boiler feeding source water into the brew boiler. Also like the chamber milled into the E61 behind the shower screen. This allows for more pre-wetting of the coffee prior to full pressure brewing. And, with the extra chamber brew pressure ramps up more gradually than your typical rotary pump machine. The Brewtus is every bit as capable brewing espresso as the other machines. If looking for value it's hard to beat Expobar!
R58: It's the "sexy" one of the bunch. Heavy on the branding. It's a bit more complex internally than the other machines. Some people like the detachable PID controller to keep the face free of digital display and some do not. It's a general design decision Rocket has made. In their other PID machines they hide the display behind the drip tray. Rocket also choose to use/show actual brew boiler temp on PID controller. The other machines use an offset as brew boiler always runs hotter than what you get at the group when brewing. With this setup, setting brew temp requires consulting a chart in the manual.
To answer your question is there a clear winner... It depends on what you are looking for. IMO they break down like this: Expobar wins for value. Pro 700 wins on steam pressure, internal design and the ability to finesse extractions with line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. R58 wins in the WOW dept.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions!
Marc
What does win on the “wow” department mean? Does that mean it’s better than the profitec?
@@InsanelyGhostly lol no sounds like Profitec is better, or ECM Synchronika if you want the same machine with some extra / nicer features.
Dear WLL guys,
Please, make presentation of Alex Duetto 3.0! Comparisson with Rocket R58, Profitec Pro700 and Expobar Brewtus IV-R is highly appreciated!
Thank you for your time!
Dimitar
Exobar looks like a hot mess compared to the other two
Hi Jay, Thanks for the comment. The Expobar definitely lacking refinement in the case details but it's built like a tank and is capable of producing espresso every bit as good as the others. And, it cost a whole latte less! In terms of engineering, The Profitec Pro 700 is the clear winner with simple hydraulics using high quality components. The Expobar is a reliable workhorse and the Rocket R58 has rather complex internals which introduce more points of failure should the machine be neglected.
Do you guys ship to Canada or are there crazy fees cross boarder? I really like the profitec
We can ship to Canada. Best thing to do is call us directly to get a shipping quote. Number is 888-411-5282.