The King James Version: Translating the World's Most Popular Book.
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- The Holy Bible is the most read, and one of the most influential, books in world history. But the choice of what to include, and translating ancient words into modern languages, created many pitfalls, and even included a "wicked bible." The History Guy recalls the convoluted path from Galilee to English translations of the world's most popular book.
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Whether people agree or not with everything here, I HOPE they at least recognize that you kept to your usual way and allowed the history to speak rather than your opinion. Well done.
I mean, there isn't anything to agree/disagree about, is there? He just presented the facts as well as we know it. No? I'm an atheist, and I enjoyed this. I never felt he presented the KJV as the one true scripture, just explained its origins and use
@@Call-me-Al I agree. He just let history speak. Sometimes people find videos on Christianity and the Bible as a way to sound off about their other disagreements.
@K Manwarren Well said, and ditto 😁
@A HA Sounds fair to me. It's interesting to see how things originated even though you don't agree with a given thing. I don't agree with progressivism but it's interesting to see how it works and how it started. Example: I was looking at a video from Hillsdale College about the beginning of Progressivism in the early 20th century and how it really got a foothold during the presidencies of Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson. I disagree with progressive thought but it was interesting to see how it started.
K Manwarren - you are right. His presentation was quite fair and objective although I think he missed a few details. His description of the propagation of the scrolls was lightweight.
Martin Luther's translation had another effect and that was to standardize the many variations of the German language spoken in the different regions.
Yes. The King James has changed English too.
"YOU TOO are the Son of God." -Jesus
Another effect Martin Luther had, was that his book 'On the Jews and Their Lies' (Von den Jüden und iren Lügen) was the primary guide used by the Nazis for the Holocaust.
When I saw the title, I thought you had walked into a hornet's nest of 'Biblical proportions'! Hahaha. But you handled this with a master's touch. Great job sir. Great job.
He sure did--the difference between an approach to history based on evidence and the scientific method, versus "history" based on dogma and "faith." The history of the Christian religion, and the Jewish religion before it, is fascinating, and it's just as much of a mess as every other bunch of history.
That would be a locusts next. Thank you very much.
@@joesguiltyguitar Nice song friend. Thanks for sharing.
@@NotThatBob thanks ...
Yes, but did you check it yourself? How astonished would you be if you found an afluent package of obvious distortions?
Please, check out the following passages and collate them with The Geneva Bible, the best one.
1. Genesis 22:1
2. Genesis 15:6
3. 1 Samuel 16:14
4. Psalm 24:6
5. Isaiah 60:1
6. Mark 16:8
7. Acts 14: 1- 10 ( easter vs Passover)
8. The Gospel of John 3:36
I am frankly unwilling to burst your joyful bubble, but a spade should definitely be called a spade. God Bless !!!
Spectacular episode! I’m a Christian and love anything about the Holy Bible! This is both educational and entertaining, thanks HG.
My understanding is that there are about 900 versions of the bible and 20,000 Christian denominations.
From a guy with a Ministerial Doctorate and great knowledge of Koine Greek, you did a great job on this historical piece . Love your channel for many other reasons as well.
You studied Catholic propaganda, not the truth. Check out "Did the Catholic Church Give us the Bible" and its Bibliography for a starting point into the actual history of the Bible.
My latin and romance language skills are average. Is Koine Greek approachable to self teach?
@@shaneofnj yes, you can learn the alphabet and pronunciations in a couple of hours. Always easier with a classroom and professor . but in a class we could begin to decipher New Testament texts in 10-15 hrs.
@Shane DeWitt Check out Mathew Black's text. It is what I would recommend if you are considering self learning. Also, A Readers' Greek New Testament is a must-have. Whatever you choose, get reading as soon as possible. The nuances will come with practice.
I gotta wonder how many times its been edited & reorganized by the church before and after King James ?
This was a sensitive topic to talk about and I can only say that you did it with extreme impartiality and professionalism. Well done indeed History Guy.
Lee Haseley how sad a commentary that speaking of the Bible is a "sensitive topic" in our culture now. America was founded on Judeo-Christian morals & ancient republican ideals. BOTH are now out of fashion in our "progressive" society. We're living with the consequences, & they're not pretty.
@@zeldabloom3582 although I am not an American, allow me to say that you put that point superbly well.
I miss the America of the Andy Griffith Show. From Mayberry to Sodom and Gommorah in just 50 yrs.😪
@@zeldabloom3582
What are they? These 'Judean Christian morals'? No one ever says what they actually are.
@@strangelee4400 They usually wind up to be their version of Christianity.
They throw in "Judeo" so as not to offend the Jews, but don't really care about their tradition.
John Wycliffe's name lives on in the name of Wycliffe Bible Translators, an organization who''s goal is to translate the Bible into every language.
As does the name Tyndale in Tyndale House Publishers.
Both of which are pronounced with the "y" making a short "i" sound.
@@Ggdivhjkjl Agreed
Wycliffe was burned to death. His bible was used to start the fire.
@@jimclark6256 I thought he was beheaded.
To add perspective, ownership of Mao's LRB was almost mandatory in China during his reign
Same for the Bible at most Churches, with many requiring you to buy "Their Bible" and forbidding you to bring another into "Their Church" and as a child from a poor family it was a burden along with them wanting money handed to them in a basket 3 times and shaming you if you had no more to give.
He forgot Euclid's geometry... Which is cut up and put inside of math books under other author's names.
Don Philips, you ever read Mao's poems? His poems are completely antithetical to how he lived, kind of ironic...
@@hiramlawson2824 : If you're going to count books based on the Bible, that cut up and rearrange the ideas in it, then the Bible's numbers go up as well. Mathematics obviously owes a lot to Euclid, but modern books take a different approach.
Another perspective of course is that the LRB directly contributed to the death of about 12 million Chinese. As with most communist regimes, if you didnt agree with the idea you were not required. Thinking about it, that certainly is history which deserves to be remembered.
History Guy, for a 12-minute video this is exceptionally well done, as usual. I was a little leery when I saw the topic but just had to watch. I am a seminary-educated Christian, a former pastor, and current military and civilian chaplain. I am a history nut and have studied this topic thoroughly. I appreciate your emphasis on historical facts and the way you avoid getting into the weeds of theological debate. So many people have very strong feelings and opinions on this topic and you navigated it with professionalism and class. Well done sir. May God continue to bless your efforts as you educate the masses about "history that deserves to be remembered."
Some years ago, I was visiting folks in a local nursing home as a volunteer Chaplain. One day a very sweet older lady saw my (Amplified Bible) I was carrying, and asked me what it was. I told her it was a newer translation that combines the different shades of meaning (of words) from the original languages. She then became quite upset, and very loudly and forcefully said "I use the King James Bible, and if it was good enough for Jesus to use when He was on Earth, then it's certainly good enough for ME"! Hey...it's a true story, and, I just agreed with the old Saint and went on my way. No need to upset her even more!
So funny! I related the same story elsewhere in this thread. You reacted in exactly the way Jesus would have... why argue and muddle up the peace and serenity she found in the KJV? Thanks for relating this story!
I have heard that statement also, but I can tell when someone is kidding.
Sadly, I have come across the same argument too. Except this woman was not dying at the moment, and could quite forcefully argue that god wrote the kjb originally, even the new testament, before the time of Jesus. In original english, which did not exist at the time and was then translated to greek. By the english, who didnt exist at the time.
I have great respect fo people who help others, and just as great for people who do not forget common sense, and it is not many who can put their own sense of what helps others aside, and listen to their needs instead. I cant thats for certain. I can listen, but I cannot hurt myself in order to help.
Anyway, Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
We can hope that god watches the watchmen, and thats good if they choose to listen.
But since some wont, we cannot rely in their conscience. And same goes up the chain of command no matter how long we build it. So the answer has to be:
"I do."
We all have to take responsibility of the people around us.
Though I believe the original meaning was: If watchmen break the law, the government is ultimatetely responsible for their actions.
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 you just didn't understand her argument. It was probably something like God is omniscient, omnipresent, outside of time, etc. If you believe in a God like that and believe that God inspired the original writers, then it would be logical to assume that he also inspired the translators and planned for all of that before the creation of the planet. You were in an argument where you either didn't agree on the underlying assumptions or didn't understand the semantics.
@@SimonASNG
Yes, it works because of power of delusion. I see it now.
I found a good, reasonable, wise person who I found I could respect, and then you need to remind me all of you are just a bunch of psychos in disguise who cant handle that some of you are more idiots than others.
Just fuck off, will you?
I did find that one of the 10 Commandments was improperly translated. In my KJV it reads "Thou shall not kill'.
In biblical Hebrew, as in English, killing (harag) and murder (ratzah) are two different words with two very different moral connotations, and the commandment uses the Hebrew word ratzah, which means that the proper translation of the commandment from Hebrew into English is, "Thou shalt not murder."
awizardalso - that is an important distinction.
I am going to look into that. That would indeed be a significant translation difference from how the Ten Commandments were presented to be me in my youth. Thank you.
It's not a transaction error.
It was done to keep the peasants from rebelling.
Seems obvious you'd think for survival since pathogens, plants and wild or domesticated animals specifically bred for survival to be harvested ethically are in fact killed. Furthermore, self defense of the herd typically allows for killing in self defense of invasive nuisances and imminent threats... though instead of deductive or inductive reasoning to determine... I guess secular laws needed to clarify since some of the clarification might not be obvious to those that do not read or comprehend well what they've read... or I guess the desperate false pretense few who intentionally rebel to justify their crimes.
“Concurred,” says the former wizard...
William Tyndale was an amazing man. He was the first to seek to translate from the original languages to english. He was successful and smuggled bibles into England. He wanted the people to be able to read and not just the church. He was captured and imprisoned for doing so, he was strangled then burned. 30,000 copies of his translated bible were available around his time of death.
Tyndale was murdered for doing what God told him to do, the 54 scholars finished his God inspired work. KJV is not copyrighted, ALL other versions are. ie: For money.
The original koine Greek version is free.
@@avislussier1111 King James Bible was produced for King James as the name says. It is quite far away from the koine Greek original.
KJV is copyrighted, held by Cambridge University, Wycliffe did some translating but from the Vulgate
I have a Geneva bible that was printed in 1608 (my grandma's cousin bought it in England back in the 50s for £7/10/-), so a lot of times when I want to look up a passage I look in that one first, then the KJV to see what the difference is. They are very similar.
I actually have a whole collection of bibles, so if you ever need to swear on a stack of them, I have quite a stack.
That would be amazing.
Cadwaladr-do you have a personal favorite?
Cadwaladr-Ever thought of doing your own RUclips video showing and explaining the differences of your stack of bibles?
I would not want to miss that
Cadwaladr what religion are you?
@@cascorick8253 none
This is such an awesome channel. Not religious myself, but can appreciate this from a historical perspective. As I sit here int he morning, drinking my coffee, I wonder if "The History of Coffee" is worth remembering? :) It's something I take for granted (like recent entries on TP and Soap), cant imagine a world where it isn't the first thing I reach for, and take for granted that it's 'just there'. Love the channel, thanks for all the hard work you put into these!
At the risk of showing my age, I enjoy this series as it brings to mind Paul Harvey, The Rest of the Story. Very well written and presented succinctly, The History Guy elucidates snapshots of history which are very interesting.
You are an elder. Something that , at the least, demand respect
Love how your videos are getting a little longer, allowing much more facts, and just a great channel. Ty history guy, and wife 🙂
There is only one Christian religion, Catholicism but there more than 40K denominations.
Buck ey eee isn’t that good one day
Buck ey that’s 40k “protestant” denominations. And you are correct that Catholicism is the true Church started by Christ on the “rock” which is Peter the first Pope.
Cheers
History guy, there are more people who deserve to be remembered: The Lollards.
John Wycliffe’s bible did not exist in a vacuum, it had to be copied and distributed throughout the land. There was a small army of helpers who copied his bible in secret and were often martyred as a result. The Lollards walked the land (England) preaching in English from Wycliffe’s bible. If it weren’t for the Lollards, Wycliffe’s bible would not have survived.
There is still an organization today called Wycliffe Bible translators, whose goal it has been to translate the Bible into every language and dialect.
If you look at the 12 conclusions of the Lollards (from 1392), they still look pretty modern. The catholic church would do well to go back and consider their validity.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Conclusions_of_the_Lollards
The first conclusion asserts that the English Church has become too involved in affairs of temporal power, led by the bad example of the Church of Rome.
The second conclusion asserts that the ceremonies used for the ordination of priests and bishops are without scriptural basis or precedent.
The third conclusion asserts that the practice of clerical celibacy has encouraged sodomy among the clergy.
The fourth conclusion asserts that the doctrine of transubstantiation leads to idolatrous worship of everyday objects (the communion wafers).
The fifth conclusion asserts that the exorcisms and hallowings carried out by priests are a sort of witchcraft and are incompatible with Christian theology.
The sixth conclusion asserts that it is inappropriate for men who hold high office in the Church to simultaneously hold positions of great temporal power.
The seventh conclusion asserts that prayers for the souls of specific individual deceased persons is uncharitable, since it implicitly excludes all the other blessed dead who are not being prayed for, and that the practice of requesting prayers for the dead by making financial contributions is a sort of bribery that corrupts the Church.
The eighth conclusion asserts that the practices of pilgrimage and the veneration of relics at best are ineffectual for spiritual merit and at worst approach idolatry in their worship of created objects.
The ninth conclusion asserts that the practice of confession for the absolution of sins is blasphemous, because only God has the power to forgive sins, and because if priests did have that power it would be cruel and uncharitable of them to withhold that forgiveness from anyone in the world, even if they refused to confess.
The tenth conclusion asserts that Christians should refrain from warfare, and in particular that wars given religious justifications, such as crusades, are blasphemous because Christ taught men to love and forgive their enemies.
The eleventh conclusion asserts that women in the Church who have made vows of celibacy are having sex, becoming pregnant, and then seeking abortions to conceal the fact that they have broken their vows, a practice which the text strongly condemns.
The twelfth conclusion asserts that Christians are devoting too much of their energy and attention to the making of beautiful objects of art and craft, and that people should simplify their lives and renew their devotion to godliness by refraining from unnecessary endeavors.
There are millions of people that deserve to be remembered in history, the man has 10 minutes to give us a brief snippet of the past.
@@rooster1012 Hopefully he has years to come to make many more of these 10 minute videos ....
@Martin Stent Maybe you didn't notice? The title of the video is The King James Version: Translating the World's Most Popular Book. The Lollards didn't translate anything. They used Wycliffe's work. There's only so much that can be presented in 10 minutes, assuming THG is going to stay on topic.
I like how he had to stifle a laugh when he said the 3rd most read book is the Harry Potter series! lol
Theres more and better moral lessons in Harry Potter than the bible...
Zombeegun Yeah ! Like with all of them I thought Most read ? I don’t think so ! Most purchase or giving away ....Yes!
@@Bronco541 like you've read either of them...
Also more factual truth in the Harry Potter books....
CallMeBronco There are some great moral lessons in Harry Potter series and I love fantasy more than any other genre. But Harry Potter series doesn’t deal with the problem that all humanity faces and that is the problem of Sin. The bible has in its 66 books the answer for every problem we face as men and woman who are made in God’s image and likeness.
HISTORY GUY,you are the best in history scholars because you cover everything in history, while every edition is superb.
The KJV includes some of the most beautiful phrases in the English language - and they are mostly taken from William Tyndale's version. He is greatly underrated as a contributor to the richness of our literary heritage.
While many wish to discuss the content of their beliefs it seems due respect must be given to The History Guy And Gal for the tremendous research and Love that went into this one episode.
A dangerous tightrope act they took to present this so that we the listener would be enriched, rather than alarmed over a sacrilegious comment.
Well done, for this too is History That Deserves To Be Remembered.
When out in southern California next time visit The Huntington Library for a look at Gutenberg Bible.
Another presentation of ... Biblical proportions.
Wasn´t complete Hebrew to me.
Verily verily I say to you that was quite good!
Ouch.....
You're preaching to the choir on that one.
(Facepalm) your pun was God awful.
Exceptional Essay on what even today is a controversial subject. Once again my hats off to the History Guy!
Thank you History Guy. You handled this subject with your usual tact and unbiased approach.
This history guy will always be remembered by me.🤓 My favourite subject in school was history. And this channel actually show stories that are important but not remembered because it wasn't famous or notorious. Or let's say, only the victors write their history.. More knowledge, more power!
That's good stuff History Guy, there aren't many people bold enough to take on a subject as tricky as The Bible. Kudos.
Bart Erhman, Milwaukee Atheist, Richard Carrier come to mind and are more academic. They are out there.
A Lost One Q? What makes you ‘ A LostOne?? Being raised basically an academic I would trust far less those with an academic point of view. I was noticeably changed at 21 years and have struggled to not try to find answers thru an academic approach. It has to be spiritually imparted. It really is the only way. At 57 I am still challenged in this area. Is. 57:10/Dan 9:13/Hos.10:13/Amos 4:6 are my personal chain reference about reliance on what I know and perceive over Jesus’ word(s).
Well said History Guy but I don't think any historical texts should be changed to reflect modern sensitivities and that is doubly true of the Scripture
@Findlay Robertson have you read it?
4:23 they tried throwing them away but people keep digging them out of the trash 😂
It's "historical" only insofar as its influence on its adherents has set the course of events that would be set forth later in history's pages. The Bible is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a reliable record of purported events it narrates. Modern archeology bears that out incontrovertibly.
This is a very odd statement, because the Bible is the way it is today, because it was considerably altered both in content and meaning in the past to reflect "sensitivities" and ideals of the time, or more often the interpretation of what the ideals should be by either the church or rulers. In fact Christianity as a whole, including some of what we today consider it's core traditions, is a product of continuous incorporations of other faiths and traditions. So why exactly do you think that those alterations of the past are valid, but doing the same today, or even just interpreting them in the light of modern morals, is invalid?
The Bibles have been changed many times already. Notice that I said Bibles. There are different versions, and they don't even all contain the same texts.
I was raised as a Southern Baptist on the KJV and in spite of the more modern versions and even the condemnation by many later scholars, there is a poetic beauty in the work that will never be matched. The core message is the same, or at least should be, regardless of the translation.
Hi marcomaloo - I am now an atheist but used to be a choir boy and got a lot of solace from the church in my youth. - I loved the KJV - as you say there is a poetic beauty in the book.
@@seanwebb605 well as I thought I made clear - I was talking about the language and poetry - not necessarily the content. I may now be an atheist but I try not to be aggressive towards people who have different views to me. As you point out there are some very questionable things in the Bible but that shouldn't blind you to the beautiful things. ... and I don't mean that you were being aggressive.
Thank you, Lance! Very enjoyable episode.
I love The History Guy! Some of your topics I am in to, others moderately but its ALWAYS interesting and I just love it! Thank you for posting this video. I graduated from a Bible College and church history was one of my favorite things to study and love your historical approach to and your history on the King James Bible! Sometimes people talk about this stuff with a selfish preachy purpose but you were thoroughly, accurately, and educationally Historical without coming across like you were trying to preach to us. Everything lined up with what I have studied and I just think this is a great video anyone from any faith or belief, believer or not, can watch and listen to and just learn about the history of the King James Bible. Thanks!
The history guy talks about the oldest, most reliable book of history, in history... The Holy Bible, God's divinely inspired Word about His Son, Jesus, truly deserves to be remembered
As a devout Roman Catholic, I greatly appreciate your (very short) history of the Bible. Again, well done.
As a foolish man, believing in the traditions of men rather than the word of God, you have a problem. Most of what you believe is are lies.
I am not a Christian but that is not required to appreciate the history of the English Bible.
Especially not as told by The History Guy....
You did a fantastic job of keeping to the facts of what we know about the text without straying into beliefs. A rare treat these days
HI
That, is what I would call ' Fence sitting'. Non committal. THE fact, that the Bible brings to the fore, [and which is the reason of it's proliferation into many languages,] is that Jesus of Nazareth was the One promised in the Old Testament to be our scapegoat , commissioned from the Beginning to reinstate us after the Fall in the Garden. If you think talking about this 'Fact' without 'Straying into beliefs' is some kind of achievement, then the Bible might as well be a laundry list, for all the good it has done you! Shalom to us only in Christ Yeshua.
@@toosiyabrandt8676 don't mistake my praise for the translation of a book for fence sitting on the truth of the claims within the book.
Most of the prophecies about the Jesus character come from Matthew. Most of those are taken out of the context of the Tora, were obvious retcons, or were even prophecies based on a passage translated in the wrong language.
Do I think that there was a first century rabbi who founded an apocalyptic death cult? Yes.
Do I think that the gospels accurately describe that guy's life? About as well as Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter does.
I’m seriously impressed that you picked up on the existence and importance of ‘Yr Beibl Cymreig’ to the survival (and now thriving) of my second language and my mother’s first language.
That was a wonderful history lesson. Thank you History Guy!
I remember the KJV Bible had a lot of Thou and Thee, that a teenager I was downright confused. Later I had the NIV and that was more contemporary and much easier to understand.
A favorite Tyndale quote: “Euangelio (that we cal gospel) is a greke word, and signifyth good, mery, glad and joyful tydings, that maketh a mannes hert glad, and maketh hym synge, daunce and leepe for joye.”
Speak real English. Can't read trash!!
@@scorpion19142001 It's anything but trash and it's made all the more delightful in its older spelling.
@@InGratiaDei Delightful to you! I live with Modern English I don't understand the scripture of "Old" English!!!!
@@scorpion19142001 I've read most of the major English translations of the Bible, and I come back to the KJV. There are some minor issues with the translation, but no other quite captures the majesty of Scripture like it does.
@@scorpion19142001 get educated
I grew up reading the King James version and love the sound of the language. I can't imagine reading the Christmas story from Luke from any other version.
Douay-Rheims is better, tho
Yeah, I've always liked the King James Version.
Indeed
@djolley61 Do You know why that is? Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
The problem is the English, unlike Latin, is still a living and fluid language. Another problem is that, for example in the Greek parts of the New Testament, there sometimes aren't 1-to-1 mappings from the Greek to English (or Hebrew, or Aramaic for that matter). You'll also got figure of speeches that a first century Jew or Roman would have just "picked up", but have long since been lost to us in the 21st century.
The KJV falls into the family of literal translations. That is, it tries to translate the text word-for-word, and do it's best to arrange those words in English as best it can. And the problem there is it's using a version of English that is well over 500 years old. English has moved on a lot in the mean time.
In contrast, something like the New Living Translation is a dynamic equivalent. It's trying to translate the text thought-for-though so that the modern reader is able to more easily pick up on the the spirit of what, for example, Paul might been writing.
Then you have another type of translation called the paraphrase, like The Message. I like referring to it "sometimes" just to help get a better perspective on how the original authors might have written the letters in a more contemporary setting. You wouldn't, however, base your theology on a paraphrase. For that you really need to study Greek and Hebrew :)
Once upon a time there was a dervish. As he was sitting in contemplation, he noticed that there was a sort of devil near him. The dervish said: 'Why are you sitting there, making no mischief?' The demon raised his head wearily.'Since the theoreticians and would-be teachers of the Path have appeared in such numbers, there is nothing left for me to do.'
You cannot understand a book like that without the cultural context it was written in.
The holy spirit interpretation is all I need.
You can have some understanding, but to have the best understanding, context is key.
For example, I Peter talks about the relationship between husband and wife. It is often derided as putting the husband above the wife in importance, but the context was Roman law that did that, and Peter wrote that she is a fellow heir of the grace of life.
To the natural man (unbeliever) the Word of God is foolishness, but to those with faith, it is the power of God!
@@martymcmannis9121 That heresy has ratfucked many people and places over the centuries.
@@wlewisiii obviously your a idiot
Left out of this history is the immeasurable contribution of St. Jerome, a doctor of the Catholic Church. Without St. Jerome’s monumental work, the religious scholars of King James would likely have had very little text to translate.
St. Jerome was not completely left out. Considering that the topic of this video is translation into English, I think he got quite good enough exposure in it.
Hmmm....not really--the main sources were Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek--though they probably did study St. J's remarkable work....
Peter Fichera St. Jerome’s translation of the Old Testament and at least the four Gospels of the New Testament was used for over 1,000 years. Council of Trent recognized the Vulgate’s significance at least 40 years before the King James Bible was completed. Protesters of the Catholic Church (Calvin, for example) freely quoted the Vulgate. To say St. Jerome’s work was not a main source for King James’ religious scholars during the late 16th and early 17th centuries is to misread history.
@@jeffreysouthflorida7008But the council of Tret was Catholic, and, at that point, England hadn't been, for quite a while. Calvin was Swiss, not English. There had already been about 2 1/2 translation into English--Tyndale was killed before he could complete his, at that time, and the KJV EXPLICITLY states that it was translated from the original tongues. They also acknowledge that they consulted previous translations, but that may only really reference Tyndale/Wycliffe e.g., Tyndale's translation of the first line of Genesis: ""In the Beginning God created Heaven and Earth." The KJV merely inserts a couple of articles which aren't there in the Hebrew, since, as is the case for Latin, Hebrew has no articles.That's why those words are italicized in the KJV.
Now, don't get me wrong, the Vulgate is a monumental and impressive achievement, but translating from Greek to Latin adds a lot of noise; Greek is a terribly exact and precise language, like German on steroids, Latin, not so much; many words can be ambiguous; probably where we get the idea that Eve got into trouble for eating an apple--the word for 'evil' is spelled the same way. Worse, the Old Testament he worked from was, itself, a translation, from Hebrew, which is even worse than Latin--just as an example, 'YoM", which KJV always seems to translate as 'day'--and the Vulgate and Septuagint do the equivalent--actually an mean ANY fixed period of time; hence: "A day unto the Lord is as a thousand years" (Or, for that matter, 2 billion).(or, almost as long as some of my posts seem to get to).
On the other hand, maybe they /should/ have paid more attention to the Vulgate at times--Whereas the KJV says the heavenly host sang "Glory to God in the highest, andpeace on Earth, God will towards men", the Vulgates "Gloria in exchelcis Deo, et in Terra pax hominibus bone voluntatis"--'Glory to God in the Highest, and on Earth peace to men of good will" seems a better rendering of the Greek, which I shall not even attempt to render in Latin characters....
@@jeffreysouthflorida7008 Exact numbers I don't know, but there must have been quite a few; Tyndall, for one, had a copy, and he was a comparatively low-level cleric. If they'd been that rare, only the archbishops & such would have had one--even if they couldn't read them; status symbols, don't you know.And let's face it, the KJV folks would only have needed one--unlike NT manuscripts, the Hebrew OT manuscripts are remarkably consistent.
The Grandfather of a friend who came from the Icelandic community in Winnipeg learnt his English from the King James Bible!
Use of the Bible as a learning tool four new languages has been often used because familiarity with the context aids the learner.
That's fascinating! Did his English develop a 17th century flavor?
Billions of English speakers have learned to read from the Bible over the centuries. It's one of the reasons it continues to have influence even in modern English - so many allusions are embedded in our everyday speech, to the point where we don't even recognize they ARE allusions ....
@K. C -- You're right -- we have the illusion that they're modern figures of speech.
Verily I sayeth unto you, that doth be very interesting!
Call me old school, I was raised with the King James version, well the version printed in the late 1940's through the middle 1950's. I am no expert so there could be several versions, but my point is that the language used in the Bibles I was exposed to just seems right in my old mind. "Though shalt not," just seems right even though I never communicated that way. This was a very interesting topic and answers many questions in my mind.
Minor point of interest. If you're ever in Dublin, you can visit Marsh's Library and see the first copy of the Bible translated into Irish.
Id love to see that!!!
Quite apart from matters of accuracy, the King James version is a supreme work of English literature. The language, and the phraseology is from a time when English reached its aesthetic peak. This was, after all, the time of Shakespeare and has left us with phrases that have rung through the centuries. The vividness of the language is a contrast with the plodding prose of more recent, earnest and literal modern versions.
Of course, the King James version was a collective effort, but it was not the work of bureaucrats. It was the work of people with poetry in their soul, albeit owing so much to William Tyndale who was condemned and killed as a heretic.
garbage.
Thank you- as I understand it, one of the reasons that Doctor Martin Luther had access to all those Greek manuscripts in Germany, includes the many Byzantine brides (royal & noble) who married into noble German households; that brought their own Greek Bibles with them.
Citation: class notes (from memory)
Jay Thompson, PhD.
Professor of History Faith Evangelical Seminary & College (now University)
Author of “A Tale of Five Cities.”
Hamlet Fortinbras That’s interesting.
Nope. He used the Greek version of Erasmus.
Love these videos. Thanks for helping the lockdown be less boring. I want to know about the octagonal Pewter plate behind you
As a Protestant Christian I applaud you, HG. Very well done! A side note, the King James Bible is also the Only Bible that was Not copywrited, so Anyone can print a KJV Bible Without permission
Superb research and presentation as always, you are consistently brilliant. I actually live just around the corner from where the Bible was translated into Welsh, it's a lovely old farm house.
The King's James Bible so well known to all of us is the one that I prefer, primarily because it is the Bible I first used and memorized as a child. I can't say you and your, but prefer Thee and Thou simply because it sounds more reverential than the common language used in say "Good News for Modern Man". I can't say the others are wrong, just that this is the version I prefer.
As a Christian, I appreciate your objective approach on such a charged subject.
QUOTE, FOR US, JOHN 3:13........you don't believe this one, either !
@@petersack5074 no one has gone into heaven, except for the one that came down from heaven, the son of man.
"The meek shall inherit the earth."
The meek are contesting the will.
Meek is misunderstood today. Better word is steadfast
I understand "the meek" to mean the humble. Some understand it as shy.
Whatever, being humble or shy doesn't mean you aren't strong.
ruclips.net/video/SIexc-_q1s0/видео.html
"The meek shall inherit the Earth, but not the mineral rights." - J. Paul Getty, oil millionaire.
@@erichodge567 Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Dear Mr. History guy.
I am shocked but also very happy you took on such a subject.
When you discuss the history of cranberries... there's not a lot of emotion or people's personal feelings attached to it.
Anything to do with the Bible.
My goodness very brave.
But excellent job as always.
It's amazing to me, just how great you are at providing us new topics, and how well researched you are on each. I really appreciate you, History Guy!
Excellent! Thank you for this discussion, very enlightening.
There are more copies of the bible from 300 A.D. on up than of any other book in history. If someone wants to proofread the King James version, they have a chance. You can read them online. But you will be surprised by how little it changes. It has just been the greatest excuse or insult to say, "it has changed so much, you're not even reading the actual word of God."
"You can read them online."
Presumably you mean a translation of the Bible from 300 AD, given that most of us cannot read Ancient Greek.
There are some notable later additions to the Bible, such as "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
Not to mention the issue of there being 4 different canonical gospels (and some non-canonical ones), all written at best decades after Jesus died. Even if Jesus was indeed divine, we're working off questionable sources when it comes to the details.
@@jliller whichever. It doesn't matter if you like it or believe in it. Its a free country. Have whatever kind of day you want.
One shortcoming of the English language was its inability to correctly translate 3rd person gender-neutral,(read inclusive), pronouns from the Greek. Thus the word "MAN" and "HE" were substituted.
This is only a recent shortcoming of the English language. "Neuter tense" is when generally a male term is used but is understood by context to be all inclusive. For instance, John 1:12 has never been misunderstood to be saying that only males can receive Christ. Sons of God refers to anyone who receives Christ and is therefore a child of God.
Rev. Steven Taylor has
@@danquirke443 Thank you Dan. The NRSV was criticized for attempting to bring the inclusiveness of the original words whether in Greek or Hebrew and called heretics for "changing the Bible's text to be politically correct", when in fact they were scrupulous in their translation. They got closer to the original meanings than any previous direct translations.
@@danquirke443 You're somewhat close to being correct but you have some misunderstandings about English linguistics. There is no such thing as a neuter tense (tense refers to time, e.g. past, present, or future) and moreover English is not linguistically gendered in the way many other European languages are. The use of the masculine pronoun as a gender-agnostic default (as well as the use of "man" to mean "human") do reflect the cultural attitudes of the time where men were considered first and most important. It is not inherently sexist to use the English language this way but the language did develop this way as a result of sexism ingrained in the culture hundreds of years ago. There is some indication that there may be a positive feedback loop between language and culture, where the two reinforce one another, in which case it may be beneficial to choose our language use carefully when writing things as important as religious scripture. The singular "they" has been in use in English for more than a century as well, despite recent criticism that claims it is not correct. I could see legitimate reasons for choosing to use "they" instead of "he" (for example) as a way of more accurately reflecting the intended meaning of the original writing. It's not just down to literal misunderstanding, but also implicit connotations and reproduced cultural values that were introduced by translation into English and aren't representative of the writer's words.
Wearmouth monastery (St. Peters) is in modern day Sunderland. Jarrow’s monastery (St. Paul’s) is about 10 miles further north. They are separate places but they worked closely together.
I remember an assignment in theology about how words change over time. mr. History guy I am putting this out after 20 seconds of your video. My professor pointed out that the term "meek" in the first century AD, was a term often used to describe the best Chariot horses, and that back then it ment " quickly responsive to a Master's direction, or in horse terms they were quickly responsive to the reigns". It was a great lesson
Most purchased does not necessarily translate into most read.
You mean people buy it to decorate their homes?
And from the original King James Version, Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18 and others have the name of God as Jehovah. Coins minted for the Crusades have the Latin version of Jehovah spelled with an I, as there is no J in Latin. In the back of the King James Version that I have, it is explained that the name of God, Jehovah, was "substituted" with the title God and Lord. Yes, history does deserve to be remembered, as does the real name of God, Jehovah.
I was in an old bookshop in Dartmouth, Devon in the UK in 1978. I was young and used to atract the sort of intresting people who are all dead now. The proprietor came up and started tralking of his adventures in the RAF in Egypt before the Second World War. How they flew out to St Katherine's monastry and the monks showed them their ancient library, flicking through the priceless tomes as though they were paperbacks. A real Boys-Own tale. I never forgot it.
Later in the same year I took up drinking in the pubs and met a man who'd served in the Royal Tank Regiment in the ealry 1920s. There was a man called Ross, whom everybody knew by sight, and they knew his real name was T.E Lawrence, famous as Lawrence of Arabia.
Vespelian -Wow great tale!!
A very very tall tale considering Lawrence died in 1935. You must have a nose like Pinocchio!
Simon Jones Hmmm I reread the story. He didn’t say HE met TE Lawrence; he said he talked with a man that had.
@@ObservingtheObvious Ah yes. Thanks for pointing that out. Interesting story then.
@@Simonsvids Before making comments it's always best to read the post properly before hand.
I listened to a documentary that included a segment on Tyndale's translation when compared to the King James Bible. It concluded that, after accounting for the changes in the English language, approximately 90 percent of Tyndale's translation was incorporated into the KJV.
Of further interest to me was that Tyndale invented words where he thought the English language had no matching word in the original texts. The word 'atonement' is one such example, it occurs for instance in Leviticus 5:13:
'And the priest shall pray for him and cleanse;' - Wycliffe (an example prior to Tyndale's translation with the exact spelling altered to make sense for the modern reader).
'And let the priest make an atonement for him for his sin' - Tyndale
'And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin' -KJV.
I also could not help but draw a parallel between the debate regarding modern translations and the debate surrounding the U.S. constitution and how it should be understood or interpreted.
For a series of documents from the Bronze Age regarding an unsubstantiated story, this thing sure has gone through a lot
Really good deep dive! It was my understanding, and you did touch on it briefly, that the KJ version was to promote the authority of the King, while rather suppressing an opposing viewpoint.
This was great, but much shorter than I had expected. Thank you!
It's the readers digest condensed version!
@@d.e.b.b5788 good comparison!
You know you need to make a part II! Saint Jerome, the Book of Kells, and Douay Rheims did not make it into this great video. Thank you Mr History Guy. Every at bat is at least one RBI or an inside the park homer. Keep up the batting practice.
“Raise challenges,” you nailed it. Thank you for eloquently stringing this together.
Very interesting. It was said the Bible is the most read book in history. I wonder how many
people have actually read the entire Bible not just popular excerpts. 🤔 You can’t say you’ve read a book if you’ve only read a few paragraphs or chapters. The Bible is definitely an interest work. It seems to allow the readers to interpret the same words in many different ways resulting in the many different varieties of Christian churches. Very interesting indeed. 😊
Great video. The history of the translation of the Bible into both English and French. and I’m sure many other languages, it is amazing! So many sacrificed so much! I was once able to look at a original copy of the Book of Martyrs by John Foxe. The page it was opened to told of 12 adults who were burned at the stake for the “crime” of teaching their children the Lord’s Prayer in English. Some if the translators and publishers met similar fates. I am thankful for all that they did, which allowed so many since to read the Bible at home and in their own language.
Very nicely done! Although I am not a fan of the King James Version for modern use, it is undeniable that the KJV had a huge impact on the formation of the English language. Much of the idioms that we use unconsciously came directly from that venerable Bible version.
Some years ago, I was visiting folks in a local nursing home as a volunteer Chaplain. One day a very sweet older lady saw my (Amplified Bible) I was carrying, and asked me what it was. I told her it was a newer translation that combines the different shades of meaning (of words) from the original languages. She then became quite upset, and very loudly and forcefully said "I use the King James Bible, and if it was good enough for Jesus to use when He was on Earth, then it's certainly good enough for ME"! Hey...it's a true story, and, I just agreed with the old Saint and went on my way. No need to upset her even more!
"Thou shalt commit adultery." Well okay then.
WICKED!!!!
Commonplace nowadays....
Well ar least he was not coveting his neighbours ox.
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel
There is a copy of the Wicked Bible that is up for sale as of 2020 for the price of $99,500.
Of all the things to get wrong. Funny though.
Thanks! I've been following you for years and enjoying your research, content, and presentation - and your passion for all the stories you share. Over the years, I've desired to say, "Thanks," in a more substantive way. This is just a token of my appreciation.
Thanks!
My cousin works with Wycliffe. He is one of the people who is helping develop Paratec (I think that’s what they call it) a computer program to translate the Bible into every spoken language on the earth.
*gender-inclusive Bibles*
I feel like if that's a concern in your life the gender content of the Bible is the least of your concerns.
Every bible translation is an interpretation. Reading and understanding in the original tongue is vitally important to understanding the bible personally; otherwise, one must rely on others.
Saykhel Rachmones....I agree, and this is why every Christian and any other student of the Christian Bible should have a concordance handy and do their own word studies. The KJV scholars did a good job with the translations, but not a 'perfect' job. For example: The KJV says in Psalm 8:5, in regard to Man: " For You have made him a little lower than the angels...". When you look up the word 'angels' in the concordance ( I use the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), it is a Hebrew word ( # 430 in the Hebrew part of the concordance ), which is 'Elohim', which is the plural form of God...Gods. I think that the scholars may have thought it almost blasphemous to put Man on such a close level with God, so they changed the translated word to say 'angels'. It is only when one starts digging into the Hebrew and Aramaic words for the Old Testament , and Greek for the New testament ( primarily Greek, but remember that many scriptures from the Old Testament are spoken about in the N.T. ), that a much richer and deeper understanding of the scriptures can be had.
What an incredibly well spoken non judgmental and insightful history lesson into a subject fraught with danger in this time of correctness. Well done Sir well done. May you and Mrs history guy stay safe.(And history kitty
King James was the anointed king of Scotland & then England. As king of Scotland was a baptised Catholic and claimed descent from Neil of the nine hostages, high king of Ireland, my ancestor as well. Way to go cousin Jimmy.
Very articulate and succinct as usual. My only other comment is that he referred to “Matthew Coverdale”, and I believe it was “Myles Coverdale”. The Episcopal Book of Common Prayer used the Coverdale translation of the Psalms up to the 1928 version. I’m not sure what translation is in the 1982 Prayer Book.
There are no pirates in the Bible, to my recollection. How can you have a decent collection of stories without a single pirate scene? SMH.
How about a big fish?
If I remember correctly VeggieTales had pirates. Close enough.
Query: are tithes legitimated piracy?
As a Christian I found this statement very funny!
Poor Critter Lots of Butt Pirates though!!!
Brave and courageous History Guy. I bet you are fun at family gatherings! Lol. I have to commend you for presenting a truly controversial subject, (although not to me, I’m convinced ). My eyes bugged out that you tackled it. I was tracing through my memory about what I had previously read or heard to compare and even contradict if necessary. I think concerning the KJV more time could have been spent on William Tyndale and his enormous contribution to this version as the KJV team of “Secretaries “ used much of his work in the final version. And some time on this team of ‘Secretaries’ that devoted their lives at the time to complete it. Maybe separate histories to explore later. A very challenging topic. I do appreciate your zeal and style and presentation. Thank you also for ramping up your output during these challenging times.
Well done sir.
As a Christian, I want to thank you for this video!
Thank you so much, I try to watch your videos all the time, don’t know how I miss this, thank you for time and videos
Heard them mention you on AFR yesterday. They loved this video and recommended people come to your channel and watch this video and subscribe!
American Family Radio? Is that the AFR you speak of? Because from the list of AFR institutions I found on Wikipedia that is the only one I could see him being mentioned on.
Wow!, very nice piece,
Many thanks for your time and effort,
And as a friendly reminder,
Everyone please remember to keep your hands washed up at all times in order to help prevent the spread of germs,
Peace out everyone ✌🏿
When that certain door knocking religion comes by your house wanting to talk about the bible, ask them which version they recognize, and have fun.
Have occasionally done that with the overzealous, and they all answer the same way regardless of sect: "The CORRECT (or true) version!"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I never demean or dismiss these 'door knockers'.
They aren't trying to steal from me, or scam me out of money. I treat them kindly.
With all of the disreputable people there, it doesn't hurt to display a bit of courtesy.
When they tell me the Bible is the inspired word of God, I ask them what does it say on the first page. They will always start reading Genesis. I stop them, saying, no, the very first page after the cover, where it says things like "revised version," or "new version," or "enhanced version." In other words, a retranslated version, or a re-interpreted version. In other words, all previous versions are wrong.
@@perihelion7798 I just like to see how much they know about what they are talking about.
Not at all disrespectful. In fact I will, if there willing to also listen, teach them some about the bible.
I have read it several times, there is a LOT of history there. Granted it is just one side of the story, but still a LOT of history.
I just answer the door in my underwear. 😱They never seem to want to chat to me. They do whisper to each other a lot on the way back to the car though. 😂
This is really a pleasure to listen to. The History Guy 'spells' out the subject very clearly.
Can anyone deny the cultural impact of the Biblical’s morale base influence on history, art, political and technology drive through time. Thank the History Guy Team, and all morally building systems that respect God’s children everywhere.
A MILLION THANKS HISTORY GUY ! ! ! ! - YOU WILL BE REMEMBERED AS THE ICONIC HISTORY GO TO GUY ! ! ! ! Edit ; if i could give you more thumbs up 👍 than RUclips allows i would,so this is my way of doing so 👍 👍 👍
Then, there was the famous version that had the throwing of the Holy Hand grenade of Antioch on the count of "Four" and not "Three".
Also known as; The 'Splody Bible.
Please accept this award. You have won the Comments Section for today.
The rest of you can move along now.
Counting to 5 is right out.
15
@@allankoivu3263 You'll never make it past "4 and 1/2".
But I have 5 "splody bible"
I love how he laughs when he is mentioning the Harry Potter series.
There is a reason you always find the Bible in the Fiction section of the book stores and libraries.
I'd love to see you go further into modern historical criticism (Bruno Bauer, Dutch Radical School, etc) regarding hypotheses about the origins of the gospels which contradict official church history
I’m a self-acknowledged anti-theist, but I do take interest in the history of these things. Today I learned the original meaning of the word gospel (good to learn the etymology went from ‘good news’ to ‘absolute truth’), and this vid helped to flesh out my understanding of just how much back and forth translation results in the modern bible. Thanks THG for another informative lesson!! I’d love to see a vid on the formation of the bible before translation made changes,
such as the Council of Nicaea and others. (One tiny note from a local ... Jarrow is pronounced as J-arrow as opposed to Jar-oh)😉
I can't believe Harry potter sold 400 million copies.
EDIT: Is that all 7-8 books combined?
Yes, that represented the whole series.
@Findlay Robertson I tried reading it when I was a kid... Could not stand it, the story seemed so dull and simplistic. You can imagine my surprise when it became a bestseller.
James VI of Scotland, I of England is his title. The enormous literary beauty of the King James Version will never fade. Later texts read like insurance documents - perhaps no accident.
In actual application, the telephone game does not cause the same issues with groups that depend on the spoken word for their history. They are fully capable of repeating to you days later 2 hours of what you said word for word. Even when they're young.