The reason the ice cream machine is always broken is due to DRM parts that only a single company on the globe has the license to install and manufacture. Meaning that _making_ a McDonald's ice cream machine work is probably a viable part of a quest to immortality.
People hated Epic Destinies in 4th edition, but they really weren't a new concept in the slightest. They were heirs to Mystara's Paths of Immortality, just a lot broader in concept, and certainly much easier to qualify for. Yes, maybe that makes it too easy to achieve, but it beats the mucking around with broken rules that even Mr. Welch can't sugarcoat. Besides, what's not to love about ascending to become an editor of the metacosm, a living bastion against (insert great cosmic evil here), a demiurge, the ultimate traveler of space and time, a prince of hell, a queen of faerie, an archlich or even just a humble demigod?
These are great adventure hooks to explain why the big bad evil guy is doing obviously counterproductive things like letting the party go, allowing ( or even helping ) a rebellion against their own tyrannical regime and so on. The plot twist is that they are not stupid, it's all part of the plan for immortality! Just when the heroes think they're about to win, they realize they've been pawns all along and the enemy is far more sinister and capable than they could have imagined.
Every time I see a new upload I stop/mute whatever is playing currently (even if it's a livestream) and watch this first. So far I've never regretted that decision. I feel like I won't do so here, either. Thanks for being amazing, Mr. Welch.
"Mystara is so great because you don't have to bow to the gods! Oh by the way if you want to ascend you have to find an Immortal to constantly kiss ass to" At least the Test of the Starstone let you keep your dignity
@@mrl9418 After getting into the Starstone Cathedral (And navigating the Maze outside which is there to stop people from taking the test) you touch the Starstone and face yourself. The test differs from person to person and techniques that help one might fail another but if you fail the Starstone and survive you get the consolation prise of great wealth. One of those that ascended even manged to do beat the test while drunk on top of that in the same setting you can ascend by doing something so great that it changes the course of history (Like being the first undead or honing yourself towards perfection both mental and physical).
@@mrl9418 Urgathoa, she didn't take the test she just escaped Pharasma's judgement which is my point about alternatives to the test of the Starstone. I'll give Mystara one thing the Entropy and Radiance paths are pretty cool but personally I think the Test of the Starstone took the wheat from the chaffe from the main Paths to Immortality. It helps that part of the reason the Starstone has its power is that it tore through two Gods before crashing, meaning that no character has to constantly ask for permission to ascend
I'd say the main difference is that gods give you nothing unless you're a cleric. There's no functional difference between turning into a Soul Larvae and turning into any other kind of petitioner. You still get stripped off everything that makes you yourself and turned into a thrall. The gods are also more like royalty born into power whereas an Immortal is more like someone who gets to run the local sawmill for doing a good job.
This could be my favourite intro ever, despite the fact I have so we disagree about Grayhawk! But seriously another fantastic video, BECMI did give you the greatest play option Immorality! Of course then again it screws you right after that by reminding you you’re a 1st level of immortal with another 36 to go.
Well, I can tell that Owlcat Games cribbed a few of these when they were making their alternate Mythic Paths for the PC version of Wrath of the Righteous. Unlocking the Dragon or Lich paths especially sound like side-quest-level versions of a couple that you described. Also, magitech space travel, and colonizing a new planet somewhere else would meet the requirements of at least three spheres...
FINALLY, someone else bitching about the Wall of the Faithless! That abomination and it's dread caretaker Kelemvor are why I say every god in the Forgotten Realms is Lawful Evil at absolute best. Great video as always, man. Currently using your playlist to introduce a group to the setting. It's an...uphill battle. But it's going. Hopefully this one will push things along a little more smoothly, as the topic was, weirdly, broached just the other day.
"Finally someone else" I mean there was a whole video game expansion in the setting dedicated to saying "Y'know that's kind of F-ed Up". Since Welch brought up Ao specifically I should note that the wall of the faithless wasn't there originally the God of death before Kelemvor built it to siphon power. The gods used to not need their followers at all but Ao thought that made them neglectful so he enforced "Gods need Prayer Badly" on them, so when someone built the wall of the faithless Noone wants to rock the boat and remove the extra incentive to worship them/keep them alive. On the subject of Kelemvor himself he replaced the wall of the faithless in the novel trilogy that told his origin with a giant mirror so instead of having to be trapped in some type of soul siphon the faithless just got to reflect BUT THEN FOR NO REASON AT ALL 5E's SWORD COAST GUIDE RETCONNED IT BACK IN. And then they quietly took out that reference but as Mr Welch notes the damage was done
I would love to know the actual number of players over the decades that have legitimately accomplished this through real game play. I'm sure it has been done of course, but I bet the number is very small.
Welch you were kind of a bit grumbly this episode. Not only about Faerun which is a fine setting when Wizards is not mucking it up. The elf gripping when dwarves are more commonly not having sex etc.
The problem with dwarves isn't their dislike of sex, dwarves sex. The problem is they are all bisexuality because they can't tell the difference between their sexes because of all the body hair.
@@Mr_Welch I never subscribed to the idea that female dwarves had either beards or other body hair. I do play my Mystaran dwarves as being very similar in body type.
@@johnbalk6091 Canonically, it varies between settings in old lore. In 1e Forgotten Realms' Dwarves Deep, it's stated that female dwarves CAN grow beards, but most prefer to shave. 2e's Complete Book of Dwarves states that most dwarf subrace women are the same; only the ultra-conservative Deep Dwarves tend to have bearded women by default. And then there's Hackmaster, where only 25% of all dwarves are female, they're physically identical to males until you get their pants off, and about 50% of the females are either gay or asexual, which is not great news for a race with a 25% breeding population AND a 3 years for 1 child reproduction rate.
The rules for attaining Immortality in BECMI have always sounded like a campaign wrecker, rather than a step to a new level of play, to me. You need to adventure for years of real time to achieve level 30, then the party is presented with a series of competing quests. How is a DM supposed to balance all of this? Running solo games for each player? For all the flack 4E gets on the Internet, it figured out how to balance players choosing different Epic Destinies for their PCs, while not requiring a DM to juggle four or five different major side quests.
Well... this was designed in the Gygax-heavy time when the relationship between the GM and players, and even the players themselves, was more competitive than cooperative. "You didn't do damage so you don't get XP," and "the thief is fifth level before the wizard gets to third" level of BS. Pathfinder did something similar with the "Mythic" stuff, where it was essentially a second level track that augmented the characters as they went, and the gaining of mythic power was shared, even if the paths that the characters take are very different. Then again, the paths themselves were quite broad, you could probably build a wizard that went down the Guardian path (tanky brick wall). It would take some work (like Mr Welch describing a warrior type going for Energy), but it's possible.
I think that it can be done as long as you have the right group of players and you explain at the start of the campaign what the goal is. Not every player might want to do it, but it depends on how the DM presents the entire idea, and how much planning the DM does. One way circumventing the XP problem is simply giving the players huge amounts of XP points and accelerating their levels. Have the party clean out a dungeon that for years has been a threat to whatever area they're living in, then present them with huge amounts XP because it's now no longer a problem. As the DM, you can do anything you want. Communication is the key. Once the players get the hang of it, just keep upping the ante. More and more adventures wind up becoming more important, therefore more experience. It's important that you keep reminding the players what end goal is. Mystara has all the monsters and different settings to make it exciting and challenging. Side quests can be done as long you have a schedule going for all your players and rotate them through it. This is really a challenge for players and the DM, and in my opinion, should really only be done with a group of people who have been together for a long time. Either way, have fun with it. It's your campaign.
@@johnbalk6091 That, too. I got the impression "years" in the video was in-game years, not IRL years. Though the reincarnation bit sounds more like something the player can retcon after several complete campaigns.
@@templarw20 Personally, I'd treat the reincarnation aspect just like dying in a video game. Don't make it a big deal, and instead portray it like a continuation of their quest. The difference is that they're now a different race/creature. Stress that it'll make their journey more exciting.
As soon as I writr them. It would require reaching the highest level, becoming internationally famous and then performing a task thought nigh impossible.
@@Mr_Welch Would it work for any fey races or just true ones? Asking because I have a Hsiao player (and the type of game I'm running may set him on the way for fulfilling these requirements)
@@IdiotinGlans true fey become archmages. Mortal creatures become immortals. There are several Sylvan creatures that have achieved immortality including a treant, satyr and centaur.
A working ice cream machine at a McDonald's? C'mon even the Immortals have limits.
The McDonalds ice cream machine isn't broken they have to wash it!😳
The reason the ice cream machine is always broken is due to DRM parts that only a single company on the globe has the license to install and manufacture.
Meaning that _making_ a McDonald's ice cream machine work is probably a viable part of a quest to immortality.
I see it now. "Declare me more powerful or the familiar gets it."
Or for the Brotherhood of the Rad, “Say im better or I cause this glowing box to go critical”
People hated Epic Destinies in 4th edition, but they really weren't a new concept in the slightest. They were heirs to Mystara's Paths of Immortality, just a lot broader in concept, and certainly much easier to qualify for. Yes, maybe that makes it too easy to achieve, but it beats the mucking around with broken rules that even Mr. Welch can't sugarcoat. Besides, what's not to love about ascending to become an editor of the metacosm, a living bastion against (insert great cosmic evil here), a demiurge, the ultimate traveler of space and time, a prince of hell, a queen of faerie, an archlich or even just a humble demigod?
These are great adventure hooks to explain why the big bad evil guy is doing obviously counterproductive things like letting the party go, allowing ( or even helping ) a rebellion against their own tyrannical regime and so on. The plot twist is that they are not stupid, it's all part of the plan for immortality!
Just when the heroes think they're about to win, they realize they've been pawns all along and the enemy is far more sinister and capable than they could have imagined.
Remember...there can be only Juan.
This! Because of metaphysics, and the fact that wizards get to 9 spells per slot, and because of everything else, Mystara is the best!
Hey I just saw you!
@@manarayofhope2374 you were on AJ livestream?
@@mrl9418 OH YEAH !
Every time I see a new upload I stop/mute whatever is playing currently (even if it's a livestream) and watch this first.
So far I've never regretted that decision. I feel like I won't do so here, either.
Thanks for being amazing, Mr. Welch.
So basically the path of the Destroyer is how you become a Sith Lord.
"Mystara is so great because you don't have to bow to the gods! Oh by the way if you want to ascend you have to find an Immortal to constantly kiss ass to"
At least the Test of the Starstone let you keep your dignity
Sure about that? What do you know of the nature of the Test? 😃
@@mrl9418 After getting into the Starstone Cathedral (And navigating the Maze outside which is there to stop people from taking the test) you touch the Starstone and face yourself. The test differs from person to person and techniques that help one might fail another but if you fail the Starstone and survive you get the consolation prise of great wealth. One of those that ascended even manged to do beat the test while drunk on top of that in the same setting you can ascend by doing something so great that it changes the course of history (Like being the first undead or honing yourself towards perfection both mental and physical).
@@cyberninjazero5659 Cayden Cailean yes, I didn't know about the first undead (unless that's just an example)
@@mrl9418 Urgathoa, she didn't take the test she just escaped Pharasma's judgement which is my point about alternatives to the test of the Starstone.
I'll give Mystara one thing the Entropy and Radiance paths are pretty cool but personally I think the Test of the Starstone took the wheat from the chaffe from the main Paths to Immortality. It helps that part of the reason the Starstone has its power is that it tore through two Gods before crashing, meaning that no character has to constantly ask for permission to ascend
I'd say the main difference is that gods give you nothing unless you're a cleric.
There's no functional difference between turning into a Soul Larvae and turning into any other kind of petitioner. You still get stripped off everything that makes you yourself and turned into a thrall.
The gods are also more like royalty born into power whereas an Immortal is more like someone who gets to run the local sawmill for doing a good job.
This could be my favourite intro ever, despite the fact I have so we disagree about Grayhawk! But seriously another fantastic video, BECMI did give you the greatest play option Immorality! Of course then again it screws you right after that by reminding you you’re a 1st level of immortal with another 36 to go.
Which Mystaracon video had the council of canon in it
I'm curious about this too.
So the entropic immortal path is the same as becoming a dragon on athas but with more refinements
You are my best grognard.
So wait... does the Sphere of Energy Immortal quest mean that Andrew Ryan (from Bioshock) was trying to become an Immortal?
i kinda want path of dungeon master as like a reverse uno of game play.
Diehard forgotten realms fan here to say my wizard absolutely agrees in your take that the gods of the realms are bastards XD
Well, I can tell that Owlcat Games cribbed a few of these when they were making their alternate Mythic Paths for the PC version of Wrath of the Righteous. Unlocking the Dragon or Lich paths especially sound like side-quest-level versions of a couple that you described.
Also, magitech space travel, and colonizing a new planet somewhere else would meet the requirements of at least three spheres...
Crossover potential!
FINALLY, someone else bitching about the Wall of the Faithless! That abomination and it's dread caretaker Kelemvor are why I say every god in the Forgotten Realms is Lawful Evil at absolute best.
Great video as always, man. Currently using your playlist to introduce a group to the setting. It's an...uphill battle. But it's going. Hopefully this one will push things along a little more smoothly, as the topic was, weirdly, broached just the other day.
"Finally someone else" I mean there was a whole video game expansion in the setting dedicated to saying "Y'know that's kind of F-ed Up".
Since Welch brought up Ao specifically I should note that the wall of the faithless wasn't there originally the God of death before Kelemvor built it to siphon power. The gods used to not need their followers at all but Ao thought that made them neglectful so he enforced "Gods need Prayer Badly" on them, so when someone built the wall of the faithless Noone wants to rock the boat and remove the extra incentive to worship them/keep them alive.
On the subject of Kelemvor himself he replaced the wall of the faithless in the novel trilogy that told his origin with a giant mirror so instead of having to be trapped in some type of soul siphon the faithless just got to reflect BUT THEN FOR NO REASON AT ALL 5E's SWORD COAST GUIDE RETCONNED IT BACK IN. And then they quietly took out that reference but as Mr Welch notes the damage was done
I love the Wall of the Faithless because it means that Drizzt will get plastered in if he dies an atheist in FR.
He's a follower of Mielikki, unless something's changed in recent books?
follow the golden arches to the hidden temple
Why do you think elves are prudes? I mean you never hear about half-gnomes now do you?
In the Gnomes defense other races can't bend that way
@@Mr_Welch plus their genitals are....scary
Best closing line ever.
I would love to see Wogar being courteous
I missed everything after the picture of the van.
Grave Robber!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gimme that Zydrate.
Entropy seems fun in a less serious campaign
Does an artifact that threatens 1000 people have to back it up or can it simply issue verbal threats?
I believe it's "must be a threat to at least..."
I would love to know the actual number of players over the decades that have legitimately accomplished this through real game play. I'm sure it has been done of course, but I bet the number is very small.
Welch you were kind of a bit grumbly this episode.
Not only about Faerun which is a fine setting when Wizards is not mucking it up.
The elf gripping when dwarves are more commonly not having sex etc.
The problem with dwarves isn't their dislike of sex, dwarves sex. The problem is they are all bisexuality because they can't tell the difference between their sexes because of all the body hair.
There is always a price to pay for epic facial hair.
@@Mr_Welch I never subscribed to the idea that female dwarves had either beards or other body hair. I do play my Mystaran dwarves as being very similar in body type.
@@johnbalk6091 so they are bald and have no eyebrows? 😲
@@johnbalk6091 Canonically, it varies between settings in old lore. In 1e Forgotten Realms' Dwarves Deep, it's stated that female dwarves CAN grow beards, but most prefer to shave. 2e's Complete Book of Dwarves states that most dwarf subrace women are the same; only the ultra-conservative Deep Dwarves tend to have bearded women by default. And then there's Hackmaster, where only 25% of all dwarves are female, they're physically identical to males until you get their pants off, and about 50% of the females are either gay or asexual, which is not great news for a race with a 25% breeding population AND a 3 years for 1 child reproduction rate.
I am really at loss as to why they didn't design similar paths to Godhood/ proxying for Planescape...
The rules for attaining Immortality in BECMI have always sounded like a campaign wrecker, rather than a step to a new level of play, to me. You need to adventure for years of real time to achieve level 30, then the party is presented with a series of competing quests. How is a DM supposed to balance all of this? Running solo games for each player?
For all the flack 4E gets on the Internet, it figured out how to balance players choosing different Epic Destinies for their PCs, while not requiring a DM to juggle four or five different major side quests.
Well... this was designed in the Gygax-heavy time when the relationship between the GM and players, and even the players themselves, was more competitive than cooperative. "You didn't do damage so you don't get XP," and "the thief is fifth level before the wizard gets to third" level of BS.
Pathfinder did something similar with the "Mythic" stuff, where it was essentially a second level track that augmented the characters as they went, and the gaining of mythic power was shared, even if the paths that the characters take are very different. Then again, the paths themselves were quite broad, you could probably build a wizard that went down the Guardian path (tanky brick wall). It would take some work (like Mr Welch describing a warrior type going for Energy), but it's possible.
I think that it can be done as long as you have the right group of players and you explain at the start of the campaign what the goal is. Not every player might want to do it, but it depends on how the DM presents the entire idea, and how much planning the DM does. One way circumventing the XP problem is simply giving the players huge amounts of XP points and accelerating their levels. Have the party clean out a dungeon that for years has been a threat to whatever area they're living in, then present them with huge amounts XP because it's now no longer a problem. As the DM, you can do anything you want. Communication is the key. Once the players get the hang of it, just keep upping the ante. More and more adventures wind up becoming more important, therefore more experience. It's important that you keep reminding the players what end goal is. Mystara has all the monsters and different settings to make it exciting and challenging. Side quests can be done as long you have a schedule going for all your players and rotate them through it. This is really a challenge for players and the DM, and in my opinion, should really only be done with a group of people who have been together for a long time. Either way, have fun with it. It's your campaign.
@@johnbalk6091 That, too. I got the impression "years" in the video was in-game years, not IRL years. Though the reincarnation bit sounds more like something the player can retcon after several complete campaigns.
@@templarw20 Personally, I'd treat the reincarnation aspect just like dying in a video game. Don't make it a big deal, and instead portray it like a continuation of their quest. The difference is that they're now a different race/creature. Stress that it'll make their journey more exciting.
... Or go on a path of immortality in Mystara, and take your Mary-Sue game to the next level.
O of
Are there rules for how a Fey may become an Archfey in a similar fashion?
As soon as I writr them. It would require reaching the highest level, becoming internationally famous and then performing a task thought nigh impossible.
@@Mr_Welch Would it work for any fey races or just true ones? Asking because I have a Hsiao player (and the type of game I'm running may set him on the way for fulfilling these requirements)
@@IdiotinGlans true fey become archmages. Mortal creatures become immortals. There are several Sylvan creatures that have achieved immortality including a treant, satyr and centaur.
@@Mr_Welch That's good too, I may have some options here as well. Plus a lot may open themselves in the campaign. Thanks a lot for clearing that up.