I'm glad I'm in more of a naturally-aspirated guy. I can see this running up a series bill. My buddy and I are going to start my build hopefully this Friday. Keep the videos coming man.
Liked and subscribed, I like your plain talk without the irritating music, and very informative content. I have a 2015 ZL1 with 612 RWHP daily driver that I love to drive.
Excellent tutorial! I'd like to see what's available for the Vortec in my '99 Suburban. With 190k it's gonna need a rebuild soon. And you know, while I'm in there...
the 1.9 is pretty much unrestricted with no external dimension compromises and the eforce with compact packaging has a few restrictions, but it performs well. Where it lacks is the intercooler / lid air flow but its to be expected with the compactness. Id love to see if it fits on my 4th gen with some tweaks.
The LSA takes less power to drive than the 2.3, 90hp est for the LSA vs. 120hp est. for the 2.3 so the difference in pulley size isn't the only factor in belt slip, wrap is a big factor as well. There's also been many LSA's at over 800 whp I haven't seen many (actually none) Eldelbrocks in that range...
The Eforce's main appeal is the compactness. Its a well built supercharger for a maintenance free setup. (says to change the oil after 100k miles of normal use. Same with the maggie. The EF has long runners and it makes good torque, the lid is a bit restrictive but other than that its pretty good. They have to be bled well to get the air pockets out of the heat exchanger. The maggie has better airflow up top with a larger footprint and is also maintenance free. For all out power they cant touch a centrifugal (with no heat soak probs) but the modern rotor design approaches centrifugal like efficiency. Maintenance takes longer on a centrifugal as it takes up a lot of belt accessory real estate. A sealed centrifugal can be a little annoying to change the oil every 6k miles but if you put a drain extension its not bad. The sealed units fluid smells horrible so without the drain ext it will drain over everything on the front end (have a few cans of brake clean ready). Or just get an oil fed setup. Some prefer the whistle of a centrifugal. There is a lot more potential to make big power numbers with them. A&A has very stout brackets that eliminate common belt issues with a centrifugal. They are great.
Camaro Rick love the channel and the c5 build. But, i got to ask you a question. Have you ever seen or witness somebody Port out the Edelbrock Supercharger and if so what do you think the power gains will be?
As far as a max effort build there are better options out there for a 2300 rotor setup if you have the room to fit it. This Eforce has long runners built into the base that make for great torque and drive-ability but are more restrictive for high rpm use vs a magnuson that has direct boost into the head style like the LSA. It can defiantly be ported to make more power. I have not seen it done first had but it is easily possible. Im not sure how much room there is to gain. The best bang for the buck porting on this one would probably be to clean up and open up the snout for a 102mm. You could also open up the runners slightly but I dont know how much meat is in them. They are cast pretty decent out of the box. Ill show more on the ports on the C5 build in the works.
I dont believe they are the same as fbody spacing. i do know the water pump upper hose end is in a different location than the fbody. It may be just standard corvette spacing
Hey so this might be a stupid question but .. What if I just want a supercharger for a bit more “fun” out of my classic car? (67 LS1 Swapped Camaro) I was thinking of going with pro charger but I like the root style (I have the cowl hood so no I don’t have to worry about hood issues) but which one would u recommend for daily use? (Well it’s not my daily but I do use my classic pretty often (no I don’t care about “ReSaLe VaLuE”) So: 1.) which one would u recommend for use if I drive it often? 2.) can i run a supercharger in general, with stock internals (I have mods, cold air intake, headers, exhaust , etc., but my engine is stock, stock injectors, fuel pump, etc.) So can I run about 5 pounds of boost safely ? Or maybe 7?
Im the same way, Id rather enjoy the car myself vs saving it for the next guy. In my opinion It really comes down to preference. You can run boost on a stock engine just dont get too carried away and it will last a long time. Mechanically you should upgrade the LS1 valve springs to prevent float. The LS6 springs should handle around 7psi but not ideal. A little more seat pressure would be great insurance. Boost reference regulator is the best bet for safe fueling but since stock internals will limit you on safe hp range its not exactly required at around 500rwhp. 60lb injectors without a boost reference should be fine. It will use more injector overhead because it will have to overcome boost pressure. A boost reference regulator will raise fuel pressure as the boost pressure builds so its not fighting against manifold pressure. It will give you more overhead out of the injectors and keep the duty cycle down. 340lph pump will be good and shouldn't overpower a C5 filter regulator if you are using one. If not get whatever high pressure pump you want. You can push it harder but its a trade off on longevity on a stock LS1. A good tune is a must. Ive heard of guys pushing them over 600rwhp stock but its not going to last very long with a stock LS1 internals in my opinion. Especially if something randomly goes wrong on the fuel or spark side. The centrifugal is the most efficient, with a good ramping in of the torque (may also be slightly easier on the rods moving the power band up in rpm) has a nice whistle to it, cons are the maintenance is harder since it takes up the accessory bracket real estate. They are kind of a pita to change a water pump or belt in most cases. Sealed units have to get oil changes every 6k miles. It will support more power than the engine can take so if down the road you want to upgrade the short block you can just change the pulley. Positive displacement superchargers are basically maintenance free (change the sc oil at 100k miles "normal" use) They make a lot of torque lower in the power band. They will be more silent at low boost levels (I dont think you will hear much wine under 6psi. Plus is the front accessories are easily accessible just like stock. If starting from scratch a magnuson would be a great option. The LSA if bought new would be close to the same price and hits limits above 650rwhp. If you can find a good deal on the parts it would be worth it. You could run it with port adapters (raises the charger slightly) Its not really a matter of boost more of how much power your putting through the rods. you can use a calculator to figure out you power levels based off of what the motor makes naturally aspirated for boost power. If an engine makes 200hp and you put 14.7PSI through it in theory it would double the hp / 400 not factoring in efficiency losses / hp used to spin the blower etc. but it is a good rule of thumb. Around 7.4 psi you will pick up close to 50% more power through the engine before parasitic loss to spin the sc.
Have you ever worked on a Tahoe let’s say 2000 2013 was interested in super charge you for it but they only make it 2.3.65 for the 15 and model use he might have some knowledge of this
Hey man is this frost specific or do they all have the belt system? I have an ls3 98 Camaro and want to drop a supercharger I don’t have to mess with so much
I have a question. If there was a 2-to-1 intake runner manifold to convert these V8 superchargers to be used on an inline 4, would the amount of boost be doubled per cylinder?
No, These are specific to LS type engines. I would just go with a turbo setup. Even a custom one would be cheaper and take less time to make than adapting this. Anything is possible but its just not worth it.
@@slyr1 Pretty much any blower you put on it will be able to safely max out a stock Gen III short block, but if its built for all out power you cant beat a centrifugal on efficiency. I like the positive displacement superchargers because they are easier to access the front accessory drive for cheap maintenance. I like the eforce for it being compact, the LSA would require cutting on the firewall on a C5, if your not worried about changing to a taller hood Id go with a Magnusson
@@slyr1 everything except the ls2 eforce setup is direct bolt on. If you check my playlist you can find the parts overview on the eforce conersion setup if your want.
Never understood why GM has such terrible intercooler core/manifold designs compared to aftermarket or even the other two. They didn’t learn their lesson from the LS9 when they went with the ATS-V either. Only the 3.0TT and 4.2TT have modern core/manifold designs.
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I'm glad I'm in more of a naturally-aspirated guy. I can see this running up a series bill. My buddy and I are going to start my build hopefully this Friday. Keep the videos coming man.
Thanks man! Yea I hear ya. I gotta get back on track with mine. Looking forward to the new mods!
Liked and subscribed, I like your plain talk without the irritating music, and very informative content. I have a 2015 ZL1 with 612 RWHP daily driver that I love to drive.
Great work on the presentation!
I have the lsa supercharger. It's great.
Nice comparison, great detailed information that answers some of the questions I had! Thanks!
2013 CTS-V Coupe A6 ported lsa Supercharger w/a forged 377" 820rwhp on E85.
Exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!
Your welcome!
The edelbrock supercharger is really a Harrop TVS 2300 supercharger they now make a 2650 supercharger as well.
Excellent tutorial! I'd like to see what's available for the Vortec in my '99 Suburban. With 190k it's gonna need a rebuild soon. And you know, while I'm in there...
Good video. Basically is depends on your belt drive and hood clearance. Also the Edelbrock will make more power since it’s a 2300 vs. 1900.
the 1.9 is pretty much unrestricted with no external dimension compromises and the eforce with compact packaging has a few restrictions, but it performs well. Where it lacks is the intercooler / lid air flow but its to be expected with the compactness. Id love to see if it fits on my 4th gen with some tweaks.
@@CamaroRick it looks like it might. It’s definitely quite a bit shorter.
The LSA takes less power to drive than the 2.3, 90hp est for the LSA vs. 120hp est. for the 2.3 so the difference in pulley size isn't the only factor in belt slip, wrap is a big factor as well. There's also been many LSA's at over 800 whp I haven't seen many (actually none) Eldelbrocks in that range...
Nice bro very good educational video
Thanks glad it was helpful. I had not seen them ever side by side before. Wish I had a lid for the LSA but they are hard to get even now
Awesome video !
Thanks!
Compared to the Magnuson Heartbeat or the centri superchargers (A&A, ECS), how well does the E-force compare?
The Eforce's main appeal is the compactness. Its a well built supercharger for a maintenance free setup. (says to change the oil after 100k miles of normal use. Same with the maggie. The EF has long runners and it makes good torque, the lid is a bit restrictive but other than that its pretty good. They have to be bled well to get the air pockets out of the heat exchanger. The maggie has better airflow up top with a larger footprint and is also maintenance free. For all out power they cant touch a centrifugal (with no heat soak probs) but the modern rotor design approaches centrifugal like efficiency. Maintenance takes longer on a centrifugal as it takes up a lot of belt accessory real estate. A sealed centrifugal can be a little annoying to change the oil every 6k miles but if you put a drain extension its not bad. The sealed units fluid smells horrible so without the drain ext it will drain over everything on the front end (have a few cans of brake clean ready). Or just get an oil fed setup. Some prefer the whistle of a centrifugal. There is a lot more potential to make big power numbers with them. A&A has very stout brackets that eliminate common belt issues with a centrifugal. They are great.
Camaro Rick Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Camaro Rick love the channel and the c5 build. But, i got to ask you a question. Have you ever seen or witness somebody Port out the Edelbrock Supercharger and if so what do you think the power gains will be?
As far as a max effort build there are better options out there for a 2300 rotor setup if you have the room to fit it. This Eforce has long runners built into the base that make for great torque and drive-ability but are more restrictive for high rpm use vs a magnuson that has direct boost into the head style like the LSA. It can defiantly be ported to make more power. I have not seen it done first had but it is easily possible. Im not sure how much room there is to gain. The best bang for the buck porting on this one would probably be to clean up and open up the snout for a 102mm. You could also open up the runners slightly but I dont know how much meat is in them. They are cast pretty decent out of the box. Ill show more on the ports on the C5 build in the works.
Hey by any chance do you know if the 2.3 ls9 supercharger found in the c6 zr1 corvette is the same pulley alignment of a ls1 f body?
I dont believe they are the same as fbody spacing. i do know the water pump upper hose end is in a different location than the fbody. It may be just standard corvette spacing
Hey so this might be a stupid question but ..
What if I just want a supercharger for a bit more “fun” out of my classic car? (67 LS1 Swapped Camaro) I was thinking of going with pro charger but I like the root style (I have the cowl hood so no I don’t have to worry about hood issues) but which one would u recommend for daily use? (Well it’s not my daily but I do use my classic pretty often (no I don’t care about “ReSaLe VaLuE”)
So:
1.) which one would u recommend for use if I drive it often?
2.) can i run a supercharger in general, with stock internals (I have mods, cold air intake, headers, exhaust , etc., but my engine is stock, stock injectors, fuel pump, etc.)
So can I run about 5 pounds of boost safely ? Or maybe 7?
Im the same way, Id rather enjoy the car myself vs saving it for the next guy. In my opinion It really comes down to preference. You can run boost on a stock engine just dont get too carried away and it will last a long time. Mechanically you should upgrade the LS1 valve springs to prevent float. The LS6 springs should handle around 7psi but not ideal. A little more seat pressure would be great insurance. Boost reference regulator is the best bet for safe fueling but since stock internals will limit you on safe hp range its not exactly required at around 500rwhp. 60lb injectors without a boost reference should be fine. It will use more injector overhead because it will have to overcome boost pressure. A boost reference regulator will raise fuel pressure as the boost pressure builds so its not fighting against manifold pressure. It will give you more overhead out of the injectors and keep the duty cycle down. 340lph pump will be good and shouldn't overpower a C5 filter regulator if you are using one. If not get whatever high pressure pump you want. You can push it harder but its a trade off on longevity on a stock LS1. A good tune is a must. Ive heard of guys pushing them over 600rwhp stock but its not going to last very long with a stock LS1 internals in my opinion. Especially if something randomly goes wrong on the fuel or spark side.
The centrifugal is the most efficient, with a good ramping in of the torque (may also be slightly easier on the rods moving the power band up in rpm) has a nice whistle to it, cons are the maintenance is harder since it takes up the accessory bracket real estate. They are kind of a pita to change a water pump or belt in most cases. Sealed units have to get oil changes every 6k miles. It will support more power than the engine can take so if down the road you want to upgrade the short block you can just change the pulley.
Positive displacement superchargers are basically maintenance free (change the sc oil at 100k miles "normal" use) They make a lot of torque lower in the power band. They will be more silent at low boost levels (I dont think you will hear much wine under 6psi. Plus is the front accessories are easily accessible just like stock. If starting from scratch a magnuson would be a great option. The LSA if bought new would be close to the same price and hits limits above 650rwhp. If you can find a good deal on the parts it would be worth it. You could run it with port adapters (raises the charger slightly) Its not really a matter of boost more of how much power your putting through the rods. you can use a calculator to figure out you power levels based off of what the motor makes naturally aspirated for boost power. If an engine makes 200hp and you put 14.7PSI through it in theory it would double the hp / 400 not factoring in efficiency losses / hp used to spin the blower etc. but it is a good rule of thumb.
Around 7.4 psi you will pick up close to 50% more power through the engine before parasitic loss to spin the sc.
Have you ever worked on a Tahoe let’s say 2000 2013 was interested in super charge you for it but they only make it 2.3.65 for the 15 and model use he might have some knowledge of this
Hey man is this frost specific or do they all have the belt system? I have an ls3 98 Camaro and want to drop a supercharger I don’t have to mess with so much
The Edelbrock is set up for stock Corvette accessory drive. The LSA has its own belt drive from an extended crankshaft dampener
I have a question. If there was a 2-to-1 intake runner manifold to convert these V8 superchargers to be used on an inline 4, would the amount of boost be doubled per cylinder?
No, These are specific to LS type engines. I would just go with a turbo setup. Even a custom one would be cheaper and take less time to make than adapting this. Anything is possible but its just not worth it.
@@CamaroRick I see. Thanks!
You’d be very lucky to make 600 rwhp with the eforce they don’t flow well and they heat soak and run very hot
Did you do the c5 corvete with the blower
Yes, Ive done quite a few of them in all types of blowers
Rick what blower works the best and what is the best in your opinion I have a 2000 C-5 Corvette I am always looking to install the supercharger
@@slyr1 Pretty much any blower you put on it will be able to safely max out a stock Gen III short block, but if its built for all out power you cant beat a centrifugal on efficiency. I like the positive displacement superchargers because they are easier to access the front accessory drive for cheap maintenance. I like the eforce for it being compact, the LSA would require cutting on the firewall on a C5, if your not worried about changing to a taller hood Id go with a Magnusson
Is there a kit that just bolts right up?
What do you have to modify things
@@slyr1 everything except the ls2 eforce setup is direct bolt on. If you check my playlist you can find the parts overview on the eforce conersion setup if your want.
Liked & comment.
Thanks!
Never understood why GM has such terrible intercooler core/manifold designs compared to aftermarket or even the other two. They didn’t learn their lesson from the LS9 when they went with the ATS-V either. Only the 3.0TT and 4.2TT have modern core/manifold designs.
I believe there were designed and produced outside of GM
Camaro Rick I believe the same. They use what’s more typical of industry standard in design and sourced materials. They’re Mahle group cores.
from my understanding these superchargers have heat soak issues unlike centrifical superchargers
Innerchillers help a lot, but another addon and expense.
Larger heat exchanger, icebox reservoir, meth, E85 and nitrous will cure that heat soak.
the heat soak is fixable, the plus side to these is the instant power.
Lsa supercharger are $2000 brand new
It adds up quick when you gotta get the rest of the parts
I have heard the eforce is crap.
Why is it crap?
@@CamaroRick rpm motorsport was ripping on them... saying don't buy it