Thank you for sharing this as I thought it's not anne at all I saw the post and wanted to see what you thought about it brilliant video as always claire ❤
Mrs Claire, how likely is the possibility that the Vatican could have Anne Boleyn love letters or a portrait of her? Would love to know your opinion. Thank you Claire for all you do for Anne Boleyn and the Tudors too!!!! 💝
They have the ones that Henry wrote Anne, I suspect because they were stolen from Anne to be used as evidence that the king was in a relationship with her, but I don't think Anne's to Henry have survived. I think he would have destroyed them in 1536. I don't think they have a portrait of her either.
I heard or read someplace that Henry VIII went out of his way to get rid of references to Anne Boelyn after her death. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it would go to explain why there are so few images of her, I think.
Thank you Claire for producing such a well researched and interesting broadcast. When I first saw this portrait for a brief second I thought it was Margaret Pole.
I could have been convinced at first that it was Anne. It does show a longer face with high cheekbones and the longer nose, but then the Margaret Pole suggestion I could see that too, lol The dress and initials explanation does discount the Anne theory though. Thank you Claire! (I would have been annoyed at that price too.)
BOOM! Mic drop! And this is why I LOVE you! You're the best, Claire! I don't see an argument against what you've laid out. Particularly the very obvious fact that the queen of England would never be unfashionable. It would also be a bad reflection on Henry. A man who wanted to display himself as number 1 in all things to the world. He'd never stand for his queen in clothing out of date, becoming a laughing stock at the French court. He'd be humiliated at the accusations that would come from that gossip, lol. And Anne was clawing for legitimacy in the eyes of the world. She's certainly not going to wear old fashioned clothing. I can hear the giggles and whispers. You can bet it would have been written about!😅
Or as Dr. House said " Its never Lupus." From my non-American friends, "House was a medical drama featuring a ill-tempered Dr. who diagnosis rare diseases. If you have a chance to watch it, do.
50 quid, for a poor photocopy like that! Mr. Jones should be ashamed, but I've seen many similar examples of Ebay sellers being charlatan, unfortunately. It's disappointing to see Alison Weir and Tracy Borman falling for it, as they both have huge followings and should be more vigilant. Thank you for sharing your very thorough research, Claire.
@HawkqOjOp Claire didn't say, but I guess it's possible that she has been so keen to believe it was true, that she did not examine the evidence as deeply as she might have done. At her level, that's a big booboo, but I've done that occasionally with my family tree work, only realising years later that I sent myself down a wrong path. I guess we are all human, and I don't think she, or Wier, would have been deliberately misleading, unlike Mr. Jones.
Boy, Claire, you really took some people to task here, and just as you said, in the most polite way possible. But with ALL the receipts. This was one of the most epic takedowns I've ever seen 😍 👑
Have you seen that guy on twitter who kept hinting there was a new, undiscovered Anne Boleyn portrait and would only ever reveal part of it? From what we could see the lady was in more of Elizabethan-era style dress, so it seemed unlikely to be her!
I literally just posted a comment about something similar. I think people know the shock factor behind Queen Anne. So they sensationalize what they can to get views. It is sad, and it comes in the way of real research! Thank you for sharing! Bless you! 🌹
Yes, we’re all dying to see the real portrait of Queen Anne Boleyn. This guy profiting off from this portrait of this unknown woman without verification is sickening. You did the right thing by researching this portrait. If a portrait is found it should be verified before showing it. Furthermore it should be respected. I wonder if there’s a real portrait of Anne Boleyn lies forgotten inside the Vatican. As you were explaining the fashion, I wondered if there was a popular fashion designer during the Tudor era. Thank you Claire. I enjoyed your video.
I'm Bess Chilver, referenced in the video. The concept of a "fashion designer" or a clothing maker (dressmaker/tailor etc) being the *arbiter* of what the latest fashion was, only appears in the 19th century. Charles Worth, a Yorkshireman from UK), settled in Paris and is arguably the "father" of the Fashion Designer. There were ateliers before that, but he is the first to be a "name" for fashion. During the Tudor period "fashions" were set by the elite. They would have an idea they had probably seen elsewhere that they wanted incorporated into their dress and asked their tailor to make it up. So, fashion was *customer* led not *maker* led. There is a myth that Anne Boleyn set the fashion for the "french hood" (a modern term to differentiate the style of head dress most associated with her from the style in the portrait that is the subject of this video eg "gable" or "english" hood). Yet, the "french" hood was being worn from early on in the 16th century along with early versions of the gable hood. French and English Court/Elite fashions were very similar whereas French/English and Italian were different in the same period. So it was easy for French dress influences to come to England and maybe vice versa - though the English/Gable hood seems to be uniquely English/Great Britain. So, short answer is, no there were no "fashion designers" in the Tudor period.
If this is a Coronation portrait of Anne, then where’s The Queen Consort Jewels? Also, as you say why’s she in an old fashioned out of style type of dress? No way Anne would’ve done that. Yet again, a necklace w/A & B has struck once more!, Take Care!!
Actually, Anne chose to be depicted in a gable hood for the 1534 Most Happy Medal and she wore one to her execution, so that can't count her out, but the lappets count her out.
100% agree! Gorgeous research work. Thanks - and beware an art dealer who claims provenance is irrelevant the way you’d reject wooden quarters (even if someone told you they could be used to fool a drink machine). We are not machines and art is not just worth whatever monetary value you assign it, anymore than a sitter’s actual identity is irrelevant to the sitter you’d prefer it to be. Or who actually painted her. Provenance, my dear reader is everything. Of course, if you don’t think so, I have an unidentified Holbein I’d like to show you, as well as a lovely bridge…
Hmm...I smell a scam. £59 for a very bad photocopy and not even of the whole portrait. I knew it wasn't Anne as soon as I saw the hood. There is no way Anne would allow herself to be depicted in out of date fashion. Plus, it's very unlikely that she would have a lavish portrait painted in the 1520s as she just wasn't important enough. If, and it's a big if, her likeness was painted, I suspect it would more likely be a miniature as a keepsake for her parents or Henry during their courtship...but of course there is no evidence to suggest that anything of the nature existed. There is a nice scene in The Tudors where Henry has a locket with a picture of Anne... but that's fiction, all be it a nice idea. Personally, I have never been much of a fan of Alison Weir...I purchased her Lady Jane Grey book a long time ago but just couldn't get into it. And from what I hear, she does seem to make quite a few mistakes. I know it hasn't been properly dated yet, but for me, the Hever Castle Rose Portrait has always been the Anne I see and my favourite. Thank you Claire for your in depth research into this Portrait, I'm only sorry that what you received was not worth the money you spent because it's still a nice Portrait even if it's not Anne.
I don't think it's Anne either but at the same time I can DEFINITELY 100% understand why someone would think it is because everyone who's interested in Anne desperately wishes to know what she looked like so I can see why someone would put all their hopes of that into it here that it is her 🤷🏻♀️ When I first heard about it I was super excited too ☹️ Hopefully one day though we'll know what she looked like (or time machines are invented) 😂 Great video as always Claire ❤️
Great info, as always, Claire, thankyou! This lady looks more like Margaret Pole than Anne Boleyn to me, but I am not suggesting that she is MP, but there is very little resemblance to AB at all, to my way of thinking……
I would love for a hunt for the actual portrait to get underway like one was done for Richard III. If one was actually found it would be major news, though confirming its authenticity would be difficult.
I think the Nidhall painting and the two Holbien sketches are Anne Boleyn. They are closest to the medal. That painting in the video does look like the Nidhall painting. Maybe that is the confusion.
I am of the opinion that Anne was born in 1507, but even if you subscribe to the 1501 school of thought, Nidd Hall is a much older sitter than 35 years old. She looks to be at least late 40s
I have a question. Forgive me, if you stated what year this was painted. If you did, i missed it. But, what if this painting was painted later? Would an artist of the seventeenth or eighteenth centuries know such exact details of the fashions of the 20s and 30s of the sixteenth century? Edit: LoL! I just got to the part where you say, "If this was painted later. . ." I should've been more patient. 😂
Thank you Claire (yet again) for your thorough research. It absolutely drives me crazy how people put 2 & 2 together and get 270!! Why are so many people so lazy with their fact finding? It means good researchers have to do twice as much work, and take on the stress of the nasayers just to give the truth a voice 😳( typed from my soapbox) 😂
I dont think this is a portrait of Anne.The angle of the eyebrows and their positioning on the forehead is nothing like other depictions of Anne- in particular-the Holbein sketch.. thumbs down from me....
That eBay seller should be reported for ripping off buyers. The painting itself does look beautiful and I think is similar to the Holbein drawing which is possibly Anne in a gable hood.
Excellent research work, Claire 📚👏 first thing I thought, looking at the portrait, was that the lack of representation of a pregnancy is a very strong point against identifying the sitter as "Anne Boleyn, Coronation Portrait". The fashion also struck me as being inadequate for 1533. I'm glad you researched the provenance, that's always essential. That seller on ebay showed his true colours when he said asking about it was "silly".
If pushed one could argue that the lady bears some faint similarities to Elizabeth 1st - the slightly hooded eyes and long nose. As I'm sure did a lot of other people! But the old-fashioned style hood and dress, with what look like fur or deep velvet sleeves, are the deciders for me; given we know that Anne favoured the French styles and was known for her fashion sense, plus the age of the sitter and the sumptuary laws, all go against it being Anne. And if the image in the Chequers ring is of Anne, then that portrait doesn't look like the lady in this portrait either. Thank you Claire for providing the results of your research, this is really interesting - and I hope Mr Jones received the ebay feedback he deserved!!!
Hi Claire! Good video as always. Like Anne lovers everywhere, I would love to see a known, verified painting of Anne. It goes along with other wishes of mine ~~ like knowing her date of birth, her zodiac sign (Libra, I'm sure), etc. I've asked myself why there was no entry in a family Bible of the birthdates of Mary, Anne and George, and did Henry really get rid of everything belonging to or about Anne? It's the unknown that keeps us searching for the reality, and it's the lack of anything that keeps that reality out of our reach. This reminds me of a video by Dr. Kat on her channel, Reading the Past, where she explored the traces of Anne. There are very few traces of Anne left, either by way of destruction or time. It's a shame ~~ I would love for someone to find something that can be reliably traced to her. Thanks again for the video!
@@myladyswardrobe I'm not sure where I heard it, but there was mention of Lady Margaret Beaufort making entries into a family Bible about births in her family.
Thank you! The one artefact that's linked to Anne that I love is her Book of Hours, the one that she's inscribed "Le temps viendra, Je Anne Boleyn" because that would have been something that she used several times a day and that was important to her.
Interesting! I like your analysis and agree with your conclusion. I thought for a minute that you were going to bust that guy for fraud!! Thank you for sharing your tenacious journey!
I'm always surprised by how careless Weir is with a juicy rumour. She's happy to spread both old & tired rumours for a shock or new ones with very little evidence.
The fact that Tracy Borman & Alison Weir both were fooled doesn't surprise me, since the only modern Tudor "historian" that I think is worse than either of them is Philipa Gregory. I could write an essay about how unreliable I find those two, but I'll probably save that for another time.
Enjoyed your analysis and discussion on this Claire ❤ As an American Anglophile who loves history, especially Tudor history, I have greatly enjoyed and learned so much from your channel over the years. You present great content and have such a lovely & soothing voice! My Chihuahua, Ruby 🐕 also loves listening during her naps 😉😌 Thanks again, keep up the good work!
Now I possibly can have a portrait of my grandmother Joan Fitzalan!! I already have a copy of the portrait of grandfather George Neville. Don't think I will be purchasing the copy from Mr. Jones!😂. Thank you!
as beautiful and elegant as the lady in the portrait is, she in my opinon looks older than 35 I could be wrong queen Anne was about 35 when she died, just my honest opinion.
ABR= Anne of Brittany, mother of Elizabeth and cousin of Caterina, in other words the Catalan speaking connection of the House of Barcelona/Darragon( both Catalan native speakers)
When I saw Weir's attribution of the portrait as Anne, I immediately wrote a comment actually pointing out a lot of the same arguments against it. I don't believe this is Anne in any way shape or form, unlike the two Holbein sketches which I am pretty convinced are. I agree with you on almost everything, but I firmly believe in the 1507 birthdate. LOL
I used to love Alison Weir (because of the Lady in the Tower, I really ate that book up), but then I realized she's one of those sensationalist authors trying to cash in on historical gossip and shock value. Things like her post on this painting, or stuff she wrote in her other books (in Elizabeth: The queen, for example, she literally says Catherine de Medici ordered the Bartholomew massacre, this statement really shocked me). To some extent I still like her, but this experience taught me to be much more cautious towards authors and their claims.
I pick non-fiction history books by the bibliography and notes/references. I want to make sure that the author/historian has done their research. With the Lady in the Tower, although I disagree on several of Weir's views, I would say it was well researched.
That lady doesn't look like the one surviving known image, plus the sitter looks much older than Anne would have been during her brief reign.( Unless our poor Anne aged very poorly🙄) Thank you Claire for another great and informative video, I have been a fan since you started ABF online❤
My guess would be Agnes Tilney dowager duchess of Norfolk no particular evidence to support the theory except she was grand enough I believe wore red at Anne's coronation and was of an older generation so a hood a year or two out of date may not have been so significant to her provided it conveyed an air wealth and status. I doubt we will ever find out but i don't believe it's Anne. Thank you for an interesting video.
I am reading Alison Weir's biography of Eleanor of Aquitaine, so recently followed her on FB. I am now concerned as I found it odd how quickly she just came out with, "Yes, it's Anne Boleyn." It seemed hasty for an historian. I'm an actress, not an historian (just a big history nerd,) but I am questioning my decision now to read her book. Any insights would be appreciated!
I wouldn't let it put you off. When I'm picking a biography, I always look at the notes and references section and the bibliography to make sure the author has done wide research, so I'd suggest that whenever you pick a biography or history book.
I don’t think it is Anne but when I looked at the “A” symbols they look the same as the necklace Elizabeth wore in the family portrait with HenryVIII, Jane Seymour, and Mary. I am aware that some historians think that that is an “A” pendant but I have heard others saying that it is some type of religious symbol which looks like an “A”. So it is possible that the “A”s are not As at all but just some religious or other symbol? Does Bess or some other expert have any view about that?
I vaguely remember in one of your talks about portraits of Anne that there maybe one full length portrait that was saved from destruction hiding in someone's collection. Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was true and we could finally see what Anne truly looked like. People contemporary of her time spoke of her fascinating eyes. What did they look like? I would love to know.
Marvellous analysis, Claire. I thoroughly enjoyed your talk. My immediate reaction was that this person was not the same as in the Anne Boleyn portrait. G Ire
Claire is my Go to advocate of anything to do with AB, or in this case, ABR. Don't care how many famous historians take on a case, Claire researches criteria with a fine toothed comb, and dedicates her life to this research. TY, Claire.
@anneboleynfiles , you have valid sources, and your research includes multiple aspects of Anne's life, acquaintances, interests, attitudes, etc. That's why you are also my go-to for actual facts concerning Anne Boleyn and all things Tudor! Of course I enjoy most of the fictional versions of her, though it's vital to remember that if it's not advertised as a true and accurate account, we must take it with a large pinch of salt.
@@wendychavez5348 thank you so much. Your words made my day. I do get discouraged at times but when I read words like yours it really helps me. I love research and I love sharing what I find.
Wasn’t Anne depicted wearing a gable hood on the Most Happy medal? Also I thought she wore one at her execution. I may be wrong about that though. I only bring this up because I keep seeing comments about Anne never wearing one. I have just seen you have covered the medal! I should be more patient!
That doesn't look like Anne Boleyn. Thank you, Claire for bringing this to light. It frustrates me ppl rush to claim something as fact, especially when they've a history of doing that before on other topics concerning the Boleyn family. What happened to due diligence, careful assessment, weighing the facts before rushing to judgements. Clickbait Weir.
The one thing that got me is that the style of hood isn't one she was known to wear in her lifetime, at least according to the descriptions of her dress I've heard from other history channels that read out written descriptions from her lifetime.
@@anneboleynfiles I was referring more to the descriptions of her when she first returned to England and the lost original that was used as references for the well accepted paintings of her. Sorry for any confusion. I'm not always the best at wording things effectively.
Wow, Mr Jones has quite the scam going, I get frustrated by seeing portraits of Anne that were obviously painted in the 1800’s by the artist’s style and clothes not related to the period Anne was alive. Thankyou Claire! Another great one
Thanks for that amazing research! I saw this portrait discussed on Twitter recently as possibly AB. I had already read your account on AB Files so knew it was nonsense of course. 😊
Thank you Claire for sharing a very detailed & compelling evidence regarding this portrait. I totally agree with you, not only does it not look like Anne from other portraits , the style of dress , age of woman, make it most likely that it is not Anne.
I don't know whether she stands by that comment now, that was eight years ago. I respect her but I'd go with an art historian over a historian on something like this.
Why? Borman is not an art historian and has not publicized any evidence confirming the portrait is Anne. Also, I find it somewhat specious a precise identification can be made via prints which vary in detail, instead of an examination of the original art work.
A historian is not necessarily the same as an art historian. I am a model, though that doesn't mean I can draw or paint more than a passable stick figure. Once, I watched a lady paint me in a multiple-day sitting; until the very last break,I was fascinated by her unique treatment and wild colors, though the finished work looked much like most of the other paintings that week. An art historian would understand about the methods this artist used and how such an abstract treatment ended up looking so ... normal? A regular historian might not.
Oh, question, you mentioned Regina. Could Anne use Regina in a title or signature etc as a Queen Consort rather than a reigning Queen in her own right?
Yes, regina means queen, without distinction between regnant or consort. Usually in signatures, where it's used, you'd see the letter R alone, Elizabeth I signed her name Elizabeth R. Others would just use the English version signing their name followed by "the Quene" (that's how they spelled it). R is also used in royal cyphers. That's a logo with the initial of the monarch, the number and R. If you look at a beefeater uniform, you'll see it on their chest E II R - Elizabeth II Regina or C III R - Charles III Rex.
I sent you an email several months back pertaining to a video that was quite popular. It was talking about an image being a real image of Queen Anne. I feel as if it was not real, and they tried to sensationalize that hype. Pardon me for that. I was just so very excited because it seemed very convincing. However I feel people are doing things to get views. When in fact it hurts the actual research, and the people trying to find answers. I am so sorry Claire that you got that picture after paying that amount. Bless you!
If only a genuine portrait of Anne was discovered, it would be amazing!! I am still hoping.
Me too!
Thank you for sharing this as I thought it's not anne at all I saw the post and wanted to see what you thought about it brilliant video as always claire ❤
Thank you!
Mrs Claire, how likely is the possibility that the Vatican could have Anne Boleyn love letters or a portrait of her? Would love to know your opinion. Thank you Claire for all you do for Anne Boleyn and the Tudors too!!!! 💝
They have the ones that Henry wrote Anne, I suspect because they were stolen from Anne to be used as evidence that the king was in a relationship with her, but I don't think Anne's to Henry have survived. I think he would have destroyed them in 1536. I don't think they have a portrait of her either.
I heard or read someplace that Henry VIII went out of his way to get rid of references to Anne Boelyn after her death. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it would go to explain why there are so few images of her, I think.
Thank you Claire for producing such a well researched and interesting broadcast. When I first saw this portrait for a brief second I thought it was Margaret Pole.
Lol I thought the same 😂
I knew she looked familiar to someone we knew but i couldn't place it! Lol makes sense now.
I would say that the letters certainly don't match her, but I know what you mean.
So did I!
I could have been convinced at first that it was Anne. It does show a longer face with high cheekbones and the longer nose, but then the Margaret Pole suggestion I could see that too, lol The dress and initials explanation does discount the Anne theory though. Thank you Claire! (I would have been annoyed at that price too.)
BOOM! Mic drop! And this is why I LOVE you! You're the best, Claire! I don't see an argument against what you've laid out. Particularly the very obvious fact that the queen of England would never be unfashionable. It would also be a bad reflection on Henry. A man who wanted to display himself as number 1 in all things to the world. He'd never stand for his queen in clothing out of date, becoming a laughing stock at the French court. He'd be humiliated at the accusations that would come from that gossip, lol. And Anne was clawing for legitimacy in the eyes of the world. She's certainly not going to wear old fashioned clothing. I can hear the giggles and whispers. You can bet it would have been written about!😅
Thank you so much!
Not to mention Anne was just a very fashionable person, almost what we would refer to as gothic now.
Instead of 'it's never aliens', historians should adopt 'it's never Anne'. 😂
Brilliant! Lol!
Ha!
It was aliens! LOL
Or as Dr. House said " Its never Lupus."
From my non-American friends, "House was a medical drama featuring a ill-tempered Dr. who diagnosis rare diseases. If you have a chance to watch it, do.
50 quid, for a poor photocopy like that! Mr. Jones should be ashamed, but I've seen many similar examples of Ebay sellers being charlatan, unfortunately. It's disappointing to see Alison Weir and Tracy Borman falling for it, as they both have huge followings and should be more vigilant. Thank you for sharing your very thorough research, Claire.
Did Tracy state any reasons for her verification?
@@HawkqOjOp good question, I'd like to know too. Also with Alison Weir because her books are so factual.
Exactly
@HawkqOjOp Claire didn't say, but I guess it's possible that she has been so keen to believe it was true, that she did not examine the evidence as deeply as she might have done. At her level, that's a big booboo, but I've done that occasionally with my family tree work, only realising years later that I sent myself down a wrong path. I guess we are all human, and I don't think she, or Wier, would have been deliberately misleading, unlike Mr. Jones.
I did get very angry when the photos went to £70 and he was selling prints of his print for over £1000.
Boy, Claire, you really took some people to task here, and just as you said, in the most polite way possible. But with ALL the receipts. This was one of the most epic takedowns I've ever seen 😍 👑
Thank you! I very much disagree with these people, but they have their views and I have mine.
Have you seen that guy on twitter who kept hinting there was a new, undiscovered Anne Boleyn portrait and would only ever reveal part of it? From what we could see the lady was in more of Elizabethan-era style dress, so it seemed unlikely to be her!
I literally just posted a comment about something similar. I think people know the shock factor behind Queen Anne. So they sensationalize what they can to get views. It is sad, and it comes in the way of real research! Thank you for sharing! Bless you! 🌹
Also I feel as if I said that better than in my original comment! I hope it gets the point across though!
Oh yes! He went on for months and then disappeared!
Your knowledge on all things Anne Boleyn is truly impressive! I completely agree that this is NOT her.
Thank you!
Yes, we’re all dying to see the real portrait of Queen Anne Boleyn. This guy profiting off from this portrait of this unknown woman without verification is sickening. You did the right thing by researching this portrait. If a portrait is found it should be verified before showing it. Furthermore it should be respected. I wonder if there’s a real portrait of Anne Boleyn lies forgotten inside the Vatican. As you were explaining the fashion, I wondered if there was a popular fashion designer during the Tudor era. Thank you Claire. I enjoyed your video.
I got very annoyed at how much he was selling photos and prints for.
I'm Bess Chilver, referenced in the video. The concept of a "fashion designer" or a clothing maker (dressmaker/tailor etc) being the *arbiter* of what the latest fashion was, only appears in the 19th century. Charles Worth, a Yorkshireman from UK), settled in Paris and is arguably the "father" of the Fashion Designer. There were ateliers before that, but he is the first to be a "name" for fashion.
During the Tudor period "fashions" were set by the elite. They would have an idea they had probably seen elsewhere that they wanted incorporated into their dress and asked their tailor to make it up. So, fashion was *customer* led not *maker* led.
There is a myth that Anne Boleyn set the fashion for the "french hood" (a modern term to differentiate the style of head dress most associated with her from the style in the portrait that is the subject of this video eg "gable" or "english" hood). Yet, the "french" hood was being worn from early on in the 16th century along with early versions of the gable hood. French and English Court/Elite fashions were very similar whereas French/English and Italian were different in the same period. So it was easy for French dress influences to come to England and maybe vice versa - though the English/Gable hood seems to be uniquely English/Great Britain.
So, short answer is, no there were no "fashion designers" in the Tudor period.
@@myladyswardrobe
Thank you Bess.😊
Not her. Doesn't look like other portraits. Great research.
Thank you!
If this is a Coronation portrait of Anne, then where’s The Queen Consort Jewels? Also, as you say why’s she in an old fashioned out of style type of dress? No way Anne would’ve done that. Yet again, a necklace w/A & B has struck once more!, Take Care!!
I don't think Anne would refer herself as Anne Boleyn Regina...when partied to the king
The gabled hood is a DEAD giveaway.
In terms of it being much too early for Anne and being compared to the medal of Anne 10 years later yes, it is a give away this is not Anne.
Actually, Anne chose to be depicted in a gable hood for the 1534 Most Happy Medal and she wore one to her execution, so that can't count her out, but the lappets count her out.
The painting looks nothing like queen Anne in my opinion I totaly agree with you Claire,👍☺️
It's hard to know what she looked like really when we only have the 1534 medal as a proper likeness.
So so many Tudor mysteries we will never know the answers to sadly, but that what makes history so interesting and keeps us comeing back for more. ☺️👍
Is anne of bretagne, so no anne boleyns inventions, finally we know the truth at least partially
100% agree! Gorgeous research work. Thanks - and beware an art dealer who claims provenance is irrelevant the way you’d reject wooden quarters (even if someone told you they could be used to fool a drink machine). We are not machines and art is not just worth whatever monetary value you assign it, anymore than a sitter’s actual identity is irrelevant to the sitter you’d prefer it to be. Or who actually painted her. Provenance, my dear reader is everything. Of course, if you don’t think so, I have an unidentified Holbein I’d like to show you, as well as a lovely bridge…
Yes, I completely agree, provenance is everything.
Hmm...I smell a scam. £59 for a very bad photocopy and not even of the whole portrait. I knew it wasn't Anne as soon as I saw the hood. There is no way Anne would allow herself to be depicted in out of date fashion. Plus, it's very unlikely that she would have a lavish portrait painted in the 1520s as she just wasn't important enough. If, and it's a big if, her likeness was painted, I suspect it would more likely be a miniature as a keepsake for her parents or Henry during their courtship...but of course there is no evidence to suggest that anything of the nature existed. There is a nice scene in The Tudors where Henry has a locket with a picture of Anne... but that's fiction, all be it a nice idea.
Personally, I have never been much of a fan of Alison Weir...I purchased her Lady Jane Grey book a long time ago but just couldn't get into it. And from what I hear, she does seem to make quite a few mistakes.
I know it hasn't been properly dated yet, but for me, the Hever Castle Rose Portrait has always been the Anne I see and my favourite.
Thank you Claire for your in depth research into this Portrait, I'm only sorry that what you received was not worth the money you spent because it's still a nice Portrait even if it's not Anne.
It was a crazy amount for a bad photo!
I hope you left a one star review for that seller.
I think I did!
I could see Anne Boleyn's mother in that outfit... but not Anne.
It's a bit old-fashioned for Anne.
I don't think it's Anne either but at the same time I can DEFINITELY 100% understand why someone would think it is because everyone who's interested in Anne desperately wishes to know what she looked like so I can see why someone would put all their hopes of that into it here that it is her 🤷🏻♀️ When I first heard about it I was super excited too ☹️ Hopefully one day though we'll know what she looked like (or time machines are invented) 😂
Great video as always Claire ❤️
Yes, we're all absolutely dying for a contemporary portrait to be found.
Great info, as always, Claire, thankyou!
This lady looks more like Margaret Pole than Anne Boleyn to me, but I am not suggesting that she is MP, but there is very little resemblance to AB at all, to my way of thinking……
Thanks Claire. Some people seem to be going through catalogues of 16th century portraits and claiming that they're different people.
I think people are so very desperate to find a contemporary image of her.
Very Interesting 🧐 thanks as always
I am impressed with your research. You did your homework and I am sure that you are right
I would love for a hunt for the actual portrait to get underway like one was done for Richard III. If one was actually found it would be major news, though confirming its authenticity would be difficult.
Claire looking lovely in red ♥️🍒
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I so agree! Bless you!
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I think the Nidhall painting and the two Holbien sketches are Anne Boleyn. They are closest to the medal. That painting in the video does look like the Nidhall painting. Maybe that is the confusion.
Agree! I always thought the Holbein Sketches were preliminary to the full length portrait that was lost or destroyed somewhere in time
I am of the opinion that Anne was born in 1507, but even if you subscribe to the 1501 school of thought, Nidd Hall is a much older sitter than 35 years old. She looks to be at least late 40s
Thanks so much for your research, Claire! Do you know how Tracy Borman "verified" it? I've always trusted her research.
I don't believe she did verify it, I think she was just sharing an opinion.
This portrait isn't of Anne Boleyn but an attractive woman whoever she was.
Doesn't look like Jodie Turner-Smith, so no.
I am always surprised by how careless Weir can be when she catches wind of a juicy rumour. Or even rumours long-considered to be false.
I have a question. Forgive me, if you stated what year this was painted. If you did, i missed it. But, what if this painting was painted later? Would an artist of the seventeenth or eighteenth centuries know such exact details of the fashions of the 20s and 30s of the sixteenth century?
Edit: LoL! I just got to the part where you say, "If this was painted later. . ." I should've been more patient. 😂
Ha! Don't worry!
The original would definitely need testing to date it conclusively.
Thank you Claire (yet again) for your thorough research. It absolutely drives me crazy how people put 2 & 2 together and get 270!! Why are so many people so lazy with their fact finding? It means good researchers have to do twice as much work, and take on the stress of the nasayers just to give the truth a voice 😳( typed from my soapbox) 😂
Thank you!
So it sounds like this guy just printed off a picture he found online and lied to everybody that he had the actual painting he sounds like a crook
It does appear to be a photo of his print, but it was a rip-off for a photo.
I dont think this is a portrait of Anne.The angle of the eyebrows and their positioning on the forehead is nothing like other depictions of Anne- in particular-the Holbein sketch.. thumbs down from me....
Thank you!
That eBay seller should be reported for ripping off buyers. The painting itself does look beautiful and I think is similar to the Holbein drawing which is possibly Anne in a gable hood.
He certainly was making the most out of all the publicity.
Doesnt look anything like her. Nope,not even slightly.
Thank you Claire for your research and shelling out that money for us!
Thank you! I must admit, I didn't like spending it!
As much as I love the portrait, thank you for clearing this up!
Thank you!
Excellent research work, Claire 📚👏 first thing I thought, looking at the portrait, was that the lack of representation of a pregnancy is a very strong point against identifying the sitter as "Anne Boleyn, Coronation Portrait". The fashion also struck me as being inadequate for 1533.
I'm glad you researched the provenance, that's always essential. That seller on ebay showed his true colours when he said asking about it was "silly".
Thank you!
If pushed one could argue that the lady bears some faint similarities to Elizabeth 1st - the slightly hooded eyes and long nose. As I'm sure did a lot of other people! But the old-fashioned style hood and dress, with what look like fur or deep velvet sleeves, are the deciders for me; given we know that Anne favoured the French styles and was known for her fashion sense, plus the age of the sitter and the sumptuary laws, all go against it being Anne. And if the image in the Chequers ring is of Anne, then that portrait doesn't look like the lady in this portrait either. Thank you Claire for providing the results of your research, this is really interesting - and I hope Mr Jones received the ebay feedback he deserved!!!
Yes, it just doesn't fit with costume of the 1530s.
Hi Claire! Good video as always. Like Anne lovers everywhere, I would love to see a known, verified painting of Anne. It goes along with other wishes of mine ~~ like knowing her date of birth, her zodiac sign (Libra, I'm sure), etc. I've asked myself why there was no entry in a family Bible of the birthdates of Mary, Anne and George, and did Henry really get rid of everything belonging to or about Anne? It's the unknown that keeps us searching for the reality, and it's the lack of anything that keeps that reality out of our reach. This reminds me of a video by Dr. Kat on her channel, Reading the Past, where she explored the traces of Anne. There are very few traces of Anne left, either by way of destruction or time. It's a shame ~~ I would love for someone to find something that can be reliably traced to her. Thanks again for the video!
Why Libra? I would say Aquarius😉
Entries into a Family Bible is very 18th/19th century.
@@LeslieSunshine17 No, fellow air sign. She must have been a Libra. We're romantic, courageous, we love balance in our lives. Just like a Libra!
@@myladyswardrobe I'm not sure where I heard it, but there was mention of Lady Margaret Beaufort making entries into a family Bible about births in her family.
Thank you! The one artefact that's linked to Anne that I love is her Book of Hours, the one that she's inscribed "Le temps viendra, Je Anne Boleyn" because that would have been something that she used several times a day and that was important to her.
Interesting! I like your analysis and agree with your conclusion. I thought for a minute that you were going to bust that guy for fraud!! Thank you for sharing your tenacious journey!
I was pretty cross with him!
I'm always surprised by how careless Weir is with a juicy rumour. She's happy to spread both old & tired rumours for a shock or new ones with very little evidence.
She clearly has her own views about this painting, but they just don't make sense to me.
you rock girlfriend thats why i love you
Aw, thank you!
The fact that Tracy Borman & Alison Weir both were fooled doesn't surprise me, since the only modern Tudor "historian" that I think is worse than either of them is Philipa Gregory. I could write an essay about how unreliable I find those two, but I'll probably save that for another time.
Enjoyed your analysis and discussion on this Claire ❤ As an American Anglophile who loves history, especially Tudor history, I have greatly enjoyed and learned so much from your channel over the years. You present great content and have such a lovely & soothing voice! My Chihuahua, Ruby 🐕 also loves listening during her naps 😉😌 Thanks again, keep up the good work!
Now I possibly can have a portrait of my grandmother Joan Fitzalan!! I already have a copy of the portrait of grandfather George Neville.
Don't think I will be purchasing the copy from Mr. Jones!😂. Thank you!
as beautiful and elegant as the lady in the portrait is, she in my opinon looks older than 35 I could be wrong queen Anne was about 35 when she died, just my honest opinion.
Yes, me too.
ABR= Anne of Brittany, mother of Elizabeth and cousin of Caterina, in other words the Catalan speaking connection of the House of Barcelona/Darragon( both Catalan native speakers)
When I saw Weir's attribution of the portrait as Anne, I immediately wrote a comment actually pointing out a lot of the same arguments against it. I don't believe this is Anne in any way shape or form, unlike the two Holbein sketches which I am pretty convinced are. I agree with you on almost everything, but I firmly believe in the 1507 birthdate. LOL
So well argued. I am always entertained and informed by your videos. You lay out your research and conclusions so well.
Sounds like Howard Jones just wanted to make a quick buck. I think everything about the claim is ridiculous. Love the shade in this video. 😆
Looks nothing like her. I wonder if a real portrait exists in some stately home somewhere. Would they all need to have been destroyed?
I used to love Alison Weir (because of the Lady in the Tower, I really ate that book up), but then I realized she's one of those sensationalist authors trying to cash in on historical gossip and shock value. Things like her post on this painting, or stuff she wrote in her other books (in Elizabeth: The queen, for example, she literally says Catherine de Medici ordered the Bartholomew massacre, this statement really shocked me). To some extent I still like her, but this experience taught me to be much more cautious towards authors and their claims.
I pick non-fiction history books by the bibliography and notes/references. I want to make sure that the author/historian has done their research. With the Lady in the Tower, although I disagree on several of Weir's views, I would say it was well researched.
That lady doesn't look like the one surviving known image, plus the sitter looks much older than Anne would have been during her brief reign.( Unless our poor Anne aged very poorly🙄) Thank you Claire for another great and informative video, I have been a fan since you started ABF online❤
Aw, thank you, that's lovely to hear.
My guess would be Agnes Tilney dowager duchess of Norfolk no particular evidence to support the theory except she was grand enough I believe wore red at Anne's coronation and was of an older generation so a hood a year or two out of date may not have been so significant to her provided it conveyed an air wealth and status. I doubt we will ever find out but i don't believe it's Anne. Thank you for an interesting video.
I am reading Alison Weir's biography of Eleanor of Aquitaine, so recently followed her on FB. I am now concerned as I found it odd how quickly she just came out with, "Yes, it's Anne Boleyn." It seemed hasty for an historian. I'm an actress, not an historian (just a big history nerd,) but I am questioning my decision now to read her book. Any insights would be appreciated!
I wouldn't let it put you off. When I'm picking a biography, I always look at the notes and references section and the bibliography to make sure the author has done wide research, so I'd suggest that whenever you pick a biography or history book.
@@anneboleynfiles Thank you, that does seem to be in place in this biography. I greatly appreciate your input!
I would love for someone to uncover a true painting of Queen Anne she is my favourite ❤
Me too!
I don’t think it is Anne but when I looked at the “A” symbols they look the same as the necklace Elizabeth wore in the family portrait with HenryVIII, Jane Seymour, and Mary. I am aware that some historians think that that is an “A” pendant but I have heard others saying that it is some type of religious symbol which looks like an “A”. So it is possible that the “A”s are not As at all but just some religious or other symbol? Does Bess or some other expert have any view about that?
I've discussed it with Bess before as her sister makes replica jewellery and she thinks it's a religious symbol.
This was very informative!! Thank you!
50+ pounds well spent there Claire 😉
I can tell you're still very much pleased with your purchase 😉
It was an amazing deal!!!
@@anneboleynfiles Lol 😂
I vaguely remember in one of your talks about portraits of Anne that there maybe one full length portrait that was saved from destruction hiding in someone's collection. Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was true and we could finally see what Anne truly looked like. People contemporary of her time spoke of her fascinating eyes. What did they look like? I would love to know.
It would be wonderful if that came to light.
@00:40 BAR ?
Soooo Bolyne Anne Regina
I dunno man.... Could be any other name too😅
Yep!
Marvellous analysis, Claire. I thoroughly enjoyed your talk. My immediate reaction was that this person was not the same as in the Anne Boleyn portrait. G Ire
Claire is my Go to advocate of anything to do with AB, or in this case, ABR. Don't care how many famous historians take on a case, Claire researches criteria with a fine toothed comb, and dedicates her life to this research. TY, Claire.
Thank you so much. In this case, I'm not an art historian, so I'm only sharing my opinion and the expertise of those I asked.
@anneboleynfiles , you have valid sources, and your research includes multiple aspects of Anne's life, acquaintances, interests, attitudes, etc. That's why you are also my go-to for actual facts concerning Anne Boleyn and all things Tudor! Of course I enjoy most of the fictional versions of her, though it's vital to remember that if it's not advertised as a true and accurate account, we must take it with a large pinch of salt.
@@wendychavez5348 thank you so much. Your words made my day. I do get discouraged at times but when I read words like yours it really helps me. I love research and I love sharing what I find.
This is not Queen Anne
Wasn’t Anne depicted wearing a gable hood on the Most Happy medal? Also I thought she wore one at her execution. I may be wrong about that though. I only bring this up because I keep seeing comments about Anne never wearing one. I have just seen you have covered the medal! I should be more patient!
Yes, that's right, she chose to wear one for the 1534 medal and for her execution.
Solid analysis. Well done.
Thank you!
A triumph of dogged scholarship over wishful thinking and commercial enterprise.
Thank you!
In Italian carnation is garofano. Doesn't sound like carnation.
Interesting!
The eldest Anne was supposed to be at death was maybe 36 but many assume younger, right? In that portrait that woman looks she is her 50's.
Yes, the oldest would have been about 35 if you go with the 1501 birthdate.
Provenance is everything!
Have you talked with the authenticating department of eBay?
There wouldn't have been any point. It wasn't good practice but not illegal.
That doesn't look like Anne Boleyn.
Thank you, Claire for bringing this to light.
It frustrates me ppl rush to claim something as fact, especially when they've a history of doing that before on other topics concerning the Boleyn family.
What happened to due diligence, careful assessment, weighing the facts before rushing to judgements.
Clickbait Weir.
Thank you!
This is a great video. So interesting
Thank you!
Fascinating and so informative! Thank you for sharing your wonderful thorough research!
Thank you!
Great video
We can't be sure if this portrait is Anne Boleyn or not.
We can't.
No
Well researched and thought out. Thank you for the quality of your videos.
Thank you!
The one thing that got me is that the style of hood isn't one she was known to wear in her lifetime, at least according to the descriptions of her dress I've heard from other history channels that read out written descriptions from her lifetime.
She actually did wear a gable hood. She chose to be depicted in one for the 1534 medal and wore one to her execution.
@@anneboleynfiles I was referring more to the descriptions of her when she first returned to England and the lost original that was used as references for the well accepted paintings of her. Sorry for any confusion. I'm not always the best at wording things effectively.
Wow, Mr
Jones has quite the scam going, I get frustrated by seeing portraits of Anne that were obviously painted in the 1800’s by the artist’s style and clothes not related to the period Anne was alive. Thankyou Claire! Another great one
Thanks for that amazing research! I saw this portrait discussed on Twitter recently as possibly AB. I had already read your account on AB Files so knew it was nonsense of course. 😊
Anyone else see a resemblance to queen Elizabeth though? I do
If it was her it would have been clearly labeled on the portrait itself I think.
A little bit but it's probably because it's a relative.
@@pheart2381 oh I don’t think it’s either Elizabeth or Anne, but some of the facial features remind me of Queen Elizabeth’s portraits
@@pheart2381 Not possible to be Elizabeth as the fashion is first quarter of the 1520s. (Bess Chilver)
I think you could say that about quite a few women though.
Thank you Claire for sharing a very detailed & compelling evidence regarding this portrait. I totally agree with you, not only does it not look like Anne from other portraits , the style of dress , age of woman, make it most likely that it is not Anne.
Outstanding presentation! Well researched and well reasoned throughout. Thank you for such an interesting, informative thesis.
Thank you!
Excellent video & summation. I wholeheartedly agree that it is not Queen Anne Boleyn.
Thank you!
Thank you, Claire! Unfortunately people are going to make false claims because they know a lot people really want to see a picture of her.
Yes, that's very true.
If Tracy Borman is convinced, then so am I.
I don't know whether she stands by that comment now, that was eight years ago. I respect her but I'd go with an art historian over a historian on something like this.
Why? Borman is not an art historian and has not publicized any evidence confirming the portrait is Anne. Also, I find it somewhat specious a precise identification can be made via prints which vary in detail, instead of an examination of the original art work.
@@timhazeltine3256 Tracy Borman is most definitely a historian
A historian is not necessarily the same as an art historian. I am a model, though that doesn't mean I can draw or paint more than a passable stick figure. Once, I watched a lady paint me in a multiple-day sitting; until the very last break,I was fascinated by her unique treatment and wild colors, though the finished work looked much like most of the other paintings that week. An art historian would understand about the methods this artist used and how such an abstract treatment ended up looking so ... normal? A regular historian might not.
@@wendychavez5348 yes, historians can certainly help with the process of identifying a portrait but an art historian is the expert.
Oh, question, you mentioned Regina. Could Anne use Regina in a title or signature etc as a Queen Consort rather than a reigning Queen in her own right?
Yes she could, queens if they are sovereigns in their own right or consorts are known as Regina.
Yes, regina means queen, without distinction between regnant or consort. Usually in signatures, where it's used, you'd see the letter R alone, Elizabeth I signed her name Elizabeth R. Others would just use the English version signing their name followed by "the Quene" (that's how they spelled it). R is also used in royal cyphers. That's a logo with the initial of the monarch, the number and R. If you look at a beefeater uniform, you'll see it on their chest E II R - Elizabeth II Regina or C III R - Charles III Rex.
Yes, Regina was also used by consorts.
Why do you sneer when you talk?
?
@anneboleynfiles Your facial expression not inner intention.
@@Drayton627 that's just my face
But thanks for brightening my day
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I sent you an email several months back pertaining to a video that was quite popular. It was talking about an image being a real image of Queen Anne. I feel as if it was not real, and they tried to sensationalize that hype. Pardon me for that. I was just so very excited because it seemed very convincing. However I feel people are doing things to get views. When in fact it hurts the actual research, and the people trying to find answers. I am so sorry Claire that you got that picture after paying that amount. Bless you!
I think we're all so desperate to find a contemporary image of Anne that some people get carried away. Thank you!
@@anneboleynfilesYou're welcome! I totally agree! Bless you so much! 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹