Can You Make Money Investing In Poker Players?
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Doug discusses the state of the poker marketplace, where players buy and sell shares of their tournament action. It's hard sometimes to find good value, but Doug has had great success in staking players and buying pieces. He also takes a look at a newcomer to the marketplace, which allows users to buy pieces of their favorite players, but with an unusual twist.
Check out Doug's training website Upswing Poker: www.upswingpok...
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LMAO @ Naniel Degreanu
@Doug Polk Poker is getting better and better with the jokes lmao.
delivery was spot on
Poker players are such shit posters. I love it!
Poug Dolk vs Naniel D tho
SO MUCH ROFL! DOUG, YOU'RE A LEGEND!
i buy staples everyday and now im losing my house
Jamie sells action AND hides his results, a winning combo!
Sell! Sell!
How can you know when it's locked?
Well I Bought S
ome this wcoop and I can Buy A House From It Now!!! whooooo
Hey Doug, first of all i love your videos. I have now watch almost all episodes of Poker hands, and it has changed the way i approach Poker.. As i am building up my Bankroll trough Micro and Mid stakes i wonder if you could come up with a Video where you talk about your early struggle in Poker (There is that legendary 2+2 Thread were you ask for help) and talk about how you finaly managed to move up the limits from the bottom.
Greetings from Germany
+TheMakiavelli Could be a good video, I'll consider it
This really is a very good video. Your channel has been going like a train but the content is outrageously good. You are really giving insight in a world we all dream off, but never will be able to reach. Like the dry humor as well. Thumbs up!
Doug this video is so good! "Aand your looking at one right now! [Smile] Ike Haxton!" genius
Should I buy a share of Dom Twan?
Yeah, just put a clAUse making him your dungeon slave if he loses too much.
Only if you can afford to buy out the triads
hahahah best comment ever
insightful. Btw, is Naniel Degreanu an anagram for Ben Tollerene?
lalmosnino who's Ten Bollerene?
The IRS rake is the biggest and most underrated concern.
Great video Doug! Your videos are always very informative. Stakekings is very quickly getting to the point where a lot of the markups are too high for the value. I just saw a package sold out @ 2.12. That's incredible.
srsly,.. love these types of 'industry insider' videos.. keep it up man. best poker content on the web.
Great Video , ive seen plenty of videos no one on this subject that i would lose my time listen to!!fun and serious great work
Nice video! I look forward to your videos all the time! Keep up the great work!
Doug, admit, you have a professional comedian helping you with the script.
+Stories From the Dash lol I really appreciate that, it's all me
no script ?
Naniel Deserved it ! lol
Where can I bet against Phil Hellmuth in cash games?
hahahaha best comment I would bet against him as well, or maybe bet how long until he gets tilted xD
By far the best poker content out there. Keep up the great work! Will I see u at Aussie Millions this yr?
Doug really enjoy your videos and appreciate all the work you put. keep rocking
I cant wait till there's 2 or 3 more pros with as good of content as this on youtube.
Doug!!! I just watched footage of you beating Paul phua for an interesting hand at the 2014 Aussie Millions. The fauxhawk was sloppy as hell desperately in need of s trim but I wish you would show this video because these youngsters & people who haven't been in the poker Community very long need to know who the rider is!!!!
But what if a poker pro I want to buy a share off no longer crushes his game (let's say HU highstakes NLHE), stream his "bankroll challenge" playing micros and made a coaching site for low-stakes players? You think I can trust this guy?
+Mad1Lee Sounds sketchy. How were his tournament results in the last year?
I feel like you are gradually losing your faux hawk
moedanglez shhh, just let it happen.
Hey Doug, my question is, how long would it take an average player, lets say he/she play 2, 3 times a week for a few hours, to learn the poker language and learn certain strategies
Hi Doug, it would be cool if you could do a "top 10 poker hands of the week" series.
Nice honest unbiased review on poker staking. Thx Doug!
*overview
I just bought 1% of Jimmy staples in the next 100k for 2.7! What a deal!
lol
*Jimmy Stapler
Jamie Stifler*
*Jimbo Stapled
The Haxton pun was awesome. :D
Great topic, amazing video
epic content, your videos are the best man!
Yo Doug, I have no interest in bying or selling action but man... great video, love the content, keep going I love you, if you can a little bit more of the great game (plo). Thanks man :)
+Simon Benoit That's a great Idea
Can u make a video on how the buying action works and what it means?
lmfao I love how the #1 search in Google Search history is "Guide to Staking Runescape"... because gambling in Runescape is dope af rofl xD! Especially if you're making that money risk free.
Doug, your videos are the best.
+Knut Karnapp Thanks dude, I love what I do
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but I was always wondering how payouts work when you take into consideration taxes. For example let's say you sell 50 percent of the 10K main event and end up winning 10 million, but have to pay 40 percent of that in taxes...so you end up with 6 mill. Do you pay your backers 50 percent of that? Or do you pay them 50 percent of the pre tax 10 mill?
Doug, I really enjoy betting on good players. I won around $1200 when BParis won 23,000. I also tend to stay away from people that are offering more than 30% of themselves. In those cases, they don't have enough skin in the game and are basically free rolling with the markups. I also like Tonkaap and the flash sales for $8000 on SNG at only 1.05 markup.
What is the size of what they sell. Like 50% they pay themselves and 50% they sell. Also whats the normal ratio. 1% buyin = 1 % winnings? Of course i understand that these variabls can be completly differekt from case to case but what is the average ? Thanks a lot
I love the cheeky shots at other pros. It's so catty and so how I'd be if I was great but not as recognizable as people more widely known but worse than me lol
Can you explain what a 1.2 mark up means.
Who has a better training site you or Alec torrelli?
Yes.
naniel Degreanu loool made my day
do the 3rd party sites guarantee that youll get paid if player wins?
1.2 markup?! there are people selling for 70-80% of their buy ins for 1.4 markup on stakekings!!! (imdanuts, big huni) they even sell some single events for 2.0 markup such as the sunday million.
Can you please explain the 'limitless' reference? Is there a specific episode to check out? Google only mentioned Rogen talking about the movie...
his screenname is actually iimitless (he did a podcast with joeingram1 on youtube)
yeah, that's what I figured, but can you link me up?
Go to "joeingram 1" channel, recent podcast 2hrs long.
Interesting, the Poker shares deal could actually provide an arbitrage opportunity for poker players to sell stakes at a markup then buy their own action at a discount on the site, which would effectively create market equilibrium
There's also the fees these staking sites charge. I know Stake kings is 5%. Plus if you're not in the US there can be currency exchange fees on any profit/withdrawals. Add these figures to any equity equations and I don't think it's profitable to back any player for a markup.
You should make a poker fantasy league, Doug.
Hey Doug first time viewer love the quality.
What do you think of publicly calling out NA MTT pros who are selling at markup that is to high.
Also when buying action at Markup should I negotiate with the player or would that hurt his ego?
Thanks Doug ps we have the same initials 💜💜
Hello it's me!!! Hi Polk I want to ask you a question. What are the poker books that you have in that table?
Ey Doug, really good video keep like that and thanks for it, you could
make a video about how to read your oponent hand? just an idea :)
Chris Oliver made me close to $1,500 in a week off of my original $50 deposit on steak kings. Since then he has increased his markups to nearly 1.4 for any and all events. So I just cashed out and quit. Glad to hear there are other sites competing for the action to normalize the mark up.
How does a markup below 1 work? wouldn't the player want to loose? otherwise he/she has to payout more than he/she wins
why does doug make fun of daniel thats hes not good? isnt he 3rd on all time money list? pretty good to mee.
I've never considered buying action from pros but sometimes with friends I do it with no mark up for tourneys ranging from £440 to $5500 buy-in. I.E. I pay 10% for 10% action :)
Hi Doug. Big fan from Philadelphia. This was a very informative video. I have a question. Can you name any top high-stakes player that never gives out a piece of his action. Just curious.
Doug I was wandering what are the names of those poker books (i assume they are poker books) in the background! Love your videos :)
what books you got there?
What books are those?
Hey Mate, love your work, What are you doing now that stars and 888 etc are pulling out of Australia ???
naniel degranue, I knew that was coming in one way or another lol. that was amazing
This video was actually really funny!
LOL love these little jokes in your videos..
Cheers Doug really enjoying your content.
Also are you based in Australia?
i was expecting 'ban dilzerian'
Interesting video and some good points. However, Doug take it from someone that has lent money to''close friends' it is a dangerous road and there is simply no easy answer. I have lost friends due to this and it is a painful and very unpleasant path to go down. If a friend is hard up on their luck due to loosing their job etc I would have no hesitation in helping them out until they get a new job etc and would expect them to obviously pay the money back. However, when we are taking about gambling and let's be honest that is what poker is - skilled yes, but still gambling - lending money to a gambler is a road to ruin. So unless you are part of the 'poker fraternity' where this does happen amongst pros I would strongly recommend never ever lend money to a gambler especially a close friend - You will ultimately run the high risk of loosing that friend.
Could you explain how Mike McDonald's new site can undercut the player a bit more? How are people able to buy pieces of someone in a tournament without that player selling it themselves? I'm pretty sure that I am missing something here.
The Non Believer
The site is like a casino, whatever your betting on they have the opposite bet and they take a commission.
Keyan martin yeah thats gonna flop
Joakim Fredriksson why?
Where in the graph would you put Phil Ivey?
Call me naive, but I didn't even know this was a thing. I've been trading options since I was 18, had no idea you could stake money in poker players. Get back in there Doug, you're the only one I trust. Lol.
Where can stake Hill Phellmuth in Poker Night in America?
what happened to the extra spikey hair, Douglas?
I can only see the point in buying action in Twitch'ed or otherwise streamed tournaments.
I would also avoid staking Naniel Degreanu as he's clearly a fish.
Hey Doug, thx for the content. Helps me a lot!!!
Since I'm new, can you recommend any good poker books?
thx!
Regards,
Taras
Best video yet. #BAZAM GUYS
Hi Doug, could you please make a Poker Hands video about final hand of Malec vs Reichenstein from EPT Barcelona 2016? I am most interested in Uri's call. Don't you find it questionable?
Kind Regards.
killing it every day
What Daniel n should be at the same point as Ike haxton. His results are insanely good for mtts (#1) and he can soul read online guys. Honestly I don't think any of the players you mentioned could beat Daniel because of the math of their results
why he stopped streaming? he gave up on bankroll challenge? FBM
nice graph work
I'm thinking about staking a Rean Bobert Jelande: good or bad?
"you are looking at one right now... Ike Haxton" like your little twist and turns
Love this advice my man. I need some backing so I can free roll like a high roller boss just like my Fav poker playboy aka Durr lol
great information! more.
"give you guys a heads up" lol good one
lol at the Paint graph. Naniel Degreanu haha
I am trying to work out who Naniel is.
I think it was Doyle Brunson but not 100% sure
mmm could be
You believe in the free market ? I love you Doug :)
Hey doug, just wondering if Mike Matusow at 1.9 is a good deal? Thanks!
ben Wise Would be except he runs shitty n crys
Shots fired
That was a really interesting vlog. Is that just "stream of consciousness" or can you read from a teleprompter as well as our soon to be EX PRES!!!??? You are our Megyn Kelly of the poker world!! Need to work on that hair though.
I think it's another good method of investment as long as you trust who your investing in and understand it just like a market and depending on how much you stake someone there should be paper work involved an agreement
Doug, I followed Joe's advice and ploughed my life savings into Kassouf stock. I'm now broke and living under a bridge...
Can I get 20k?
VivaValdez he won the last ever EPT high roller. He is on a roll at the minute. Joe was right,well so far at least.
I know, I was glad he won that. Shut the haters up, even though small sample size results don't really mean that much.
Naniel Degreanu sounds like he'd be a real fish
Shoutout to Runescape! Plenty of money to be made staking players there. IMO Doug should've clicked on that guide.
Good Video Poug Dolk.
Hey Doug I would just like to say I saw your snapchat comment today about the Tom Dwan challenge being the biggest scam in poker history. While I have a lot of respect for you and enjoy your content, It's pretty disappointing to see you making comments like this. There are many other poker events that have been much bigger scams then the Tom Dwan challenge (*cough FTP and UB). You come across as extremely whiney because you lost out on some equity betting on Jungleman in the challenge. Think about all the people effected by other scams and not the rich HS pro who lost some equity wagering on a challenge.
Hey Doug, been watching your channel for several weeks now, great content man. Anyway I was hoping you can clear up something for me. I have been a fan of Daniel Negreanu since I started playing poker, and I know you have some problem with him regarding the rake at Pokerstars, but is there some other problem you have with him?? Because I can see that you have no love for the guy. Anyway I will keep watching your channel because it is great, and hoping you can clarify my question. Thx man
+Vimin Vayumhasuvan I have no real issue with Daniel, the problem is he kind of takes shots without any backing a lot.
He insulted high stakes grinders by saying with 2 weeks of study he could beat 25/50 online, which is the toughest game in the world.
He went on a podcast and said rake is good for the ecosystem... it's obviously not.
He tweeted this year telling me I was in contention for the "Tool of the year award".
So no, I don't really have a problem with him. I just think he has made a lot of poor decisions that are insulting to the players and I am OK being the voice to stand up for what I belive is right.
Also I'm in it for the lols
Doug Polk Poker "Tool of the year award" WTF??? More like "Best New RUclips Channel for Poker" Lol, anyway thx for your reply
I got some lulz out of it.
You forgot to mention he's a shill for the company that pays him and that he adjusts his opinion on the fly as long as it secures his Amaya paycheck
I think the 'tool of the year award' tweet was just good strat though, as he ended up winning it
ps: big Negreanu fan ~4 years ago
Sorry for the lack of lols in my comment :(
I think the numbers are crazy. Just outrageous. I think this means i have to get involved and sell some action. 1.5, what the fuck? noone can beat these odds anywhere. Its just too much. I know poker, i play poker, and i have money, can anyone stop me if i want to sell some action for Vanessa Selbst or someone like that?
For my own poker playing activity, i will spend up to 500 dollars for a buy-in, but i will not try to go bigger by selling action, i have 100% of myself. But i am motivated to sell action for other players based on these numbers.
One question i need answered: How are re-buys handled when it comes to selling action?
Doug new info on AI in wired magazine today.
Is daniel negranu actually bad?
no ofcourse not.. he just cant compete with todays top online regs. his skills are mainly live in getting reads.
So did you loan your buddy the 20k?
Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit silly when in some tournaments, a ton of players sell 90% of their action? None of them are rolled to actually play, we're just pretending they are. I get all the benefits of lowering variance etc etc, but when all 1M buyins are actually 100k buyins, and all 100ks are actually 10ks, I start to wonder why there are such tournaments in the first place?
I won a random tourney in a closed restaurant after hours. Really ripped the field and called out every read when I knocked out each player. All of a sudden walking out I was approached by 2 different random guys asking to stake me for the future. Was the last day I ever played poker.
Sure. I`ll start by saying it was 2004. And was the last time I played poker outside my own home or my best friend`s place. We were playing online, and winning, we were playing at my house and got super serious and strict. Any B.S and I threw you out of the game. I would even sometimes have 2 tables running in my basement on the weekends. So we were doing this since 2002 and got pretty good and wanted to go out into the world so one day we could be on T.V too. My first time out went to some mansion in a cash game and sat down with a table full or regulars who were out to clean out noobs and I ended up cleaning them out. While there we found out about a underground game that would occur at a diner that after dark would become a poker room, invitation only. $100 buy in if I`m not mistaken 90 to the pot and 10 for food. Turned out they made some fantastic food. About 10-12 tables full and a lot of regulars. We were the new kids. And I played like a pro. The stars aligned. I could tell everyone`s hands at the table. Would tell them their cards with pinpoint accuracy. Many times someone would call me out for B.S and then the other person would flip their hand and the table would fall silent. Ended up winning and a lot of people were talking that they witnessed something special.
So as we are leaving a very big dude comes up to us and thinking he was going to rob us (still 5-6 of us) he talks about a poker game with high stakes that he would like to stake me for. I politely refuse and he gives me his number should I change my mind. As we sit in our car another person comes up to us and talks about a game at a Legion Hall that runs every quarter that he wants to stake me at. I also decline him.
I went home and showed my parents the money and sat down and talked to my dad. Told him that I do have some talent in this game but with reward there was risk. He told me to do whatever I wanted and I think to impress him I said I would never play outside the house again. Crazily enough I stuck with it and never did. In fact for close to 10 years I didn`t even play at home.
I`m not sure if that`s what you expected. But that`s my story.
Were you born in Philadelphia?
n Sorry. No. Canadian
What a sad story, bro. Well, not if you found something else you love doing and are making money from it.
Biggest load of shit I've ever read in my life.
In my opinion staking poker players in general is a bad investment. 99.99% The only time you give money out for people to play poker is if they're a close friend or family and you don't care if you see the money again. Top 2 reasons not to invest.1. It's super hard to make money in poker against the rake, expenses, and taxes.(1 poker player out of a million). 2. In general you can't trust a poker player that has lost his money now wants to lose yours.
It's a bad investment because no one charges below value for online tournaments. Online no one is worth over 1.2 on their normal tournament grind (high stakes players playing lower stakes will be better). One of the best tournament players 1_conor_b_1 has a 20% ROI ( I calculated it as 1.17, but OPR says it is 1.2). OPR rank him 56 out of millions.
Live tournaments there is so much dead money meaning players who will never get 1st ie Paul Newey or Bill Perkins. So you have greater margins compared to online, but who fucking knows how much Rast or Holz are worth in a small live field?