The man who Churchill HATED most
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2024
- John Curtin was a pivotal figure in Australian political history, serving as the 14th Prime Minister of Australia from 1941 until his untimely death in 1945. Born on January 8, 1885, in Creswick, Victoria, Curtin's life was a testament to resilience, conviction, and leadership during tumultuous times.
Curtin's political journey began in earnest when he joined the Australian Labor Party (ALP) in 1911. His early years were marked by staunch advocacy for workers' rights and social justice. However, it was his ascension to the role of Prime Minister during World War II that truly defined his legacy.
As Prime Minister, Curtin faced the daunting task of leading Australia through one of its darkest periods. With the threat of Japanese invasion looming large, he made the bold decision to redirect Australia's military focus from Europe to the Pacific, aligning closely with the United States for mutual defense. This pivotal shift in strategy played a crucial role in the eventual Allied victory in the Pacific theater.
Curtin's leadership during the war was characterized by his unwavering commitment to the Australian people. He prioritized the welfare of servicemen and women, implemented policies to support wartime industries, and worked tirelessly to maintain national unity in the face of adversity.
Beyond his wartime leadership, Curtin's legacy is also defined by his progressive vision for post-war Australia. He championed social reforms, including the introduction of unemployment benefits and the establishment of the Department of Post-War Reconstruction to guide the nation's recovery efforts.
Tragically, Curtin's tenure as Prime Minister was cut short by his death on July 5, 1945, just months before the end of the war. However, his impact on Australian politics and society endures to this day. John Curtin remains revered as a statesman of unparalleled integrity, whose leadership steered Australia through its darkest hour and laid the foundation for a more equitable and prosperous future.
Want the full deep dive on Menzies and Curtin? Check out the 10 Prime Ministers in 10 Days course we made right here: www.mrmhistory.com/federated-australia-19001949
the history not needed. Should've gone straight to the point re Churchill
Contrary to popular belief, Churchill definitely hated Hitler more than Curtain. And that came in his relentless persuasion of the Americans to join the war in Europe. Although the Americans were also very strong in their pursuit of Japan after Pearl Harbour. So those Aussies were saved by fate. But then again, Britain was very successful against the Vietminh in Vietnam after WW2 before they (French screwed everything up) left for Malaysia to stop their communist insurgents. So although I understand the blame towards Britain esp during WW1&2 I wouldn't use it as a cross to bare but something to learn from because I'm not a socialist using injustices of the past as a vehicle to push my current woke narrative upon anyone.
Eamon de Valera and Churchill did not get on.
Our best PM? Ben Chifley imo. He just implemented Curtin's plans, but in doing so honoured Curtin's memory and cemented his place in our history.
@@Matlockizationposted:Contrary to popular belief, Churchill definitely hated Hitler more than Curtain
-------------------------------
well seeing as fact indicates that Hirohito and not Hitler was threatening Curtain's country then he was absolutely right in not allowing his soldiers to be used as sandbags. Winston held their soldiers (Diggers) fighting in Burma defending rubber trees when the IJF had in fact surrounded Port Moresby in New Guinea and already had taken Rabaul in New Britain - and had bombed the Harbor at northern Australian Port of Darwin. Churchill had went screaming for help for just that when Hitler started in on GB
And Britain was an after thought in the Pacific - it was American-ANZAC operation. The USA needed Australia for the same reason it needed Britain. Both much closer to the enemy for tactical staging, support and assembly areas and gathering all men/materiel/provisions/supply for prosecuting the war
*Curtin and Churchill clash*
This led to furious communications between London and Canberra with Curtin emphatically stating on 22 February 1942 that the troops should immediately return to Australia. Amazingly, Churchill then gave instructions to the British Admiralty, who were transporting the Australian division, to change the course of the troopships and sail for the Burmese capital, Rangoon.
Curtin and his war cabinet were shocked and enraged; Churchill had gone too far. Curtin replied to Churchill the following day, demanding that the soldiers be returned to Australia immediately. Churchill conceded, the ships changed course again and continued on to Australia.
This was a time of intense stress for Curtin as the troop ships were vulnerable to Japanese attack. However, the soldiers arrived safely in Adelaide on 23 and 27 March 1942.
On 14 March, Curtin had given a radio address to the people of the United States urging Americans to stand with Australia against the Japanese, saying: ‘Australia is the last bastion between the west coast of America and the Japanese. If Australia goes, the Americas are wide open.’
The Battles of the Coral Sea, Midway then Guadalcanal changed everything by the end of February 1943.
One man whom all Australians should know the name of and study.
Agreed Aaron
he fuckin sold iron and oil to the Japanese during war time, he was a was a disloyal ignorant bastard.
Fun fact - he appears in the video game Civilization VI, along with other national heroes like Peter the Great and Teddy Roosevelt.
@@Elitist20 The developers of Civilization VI understand Australian history better than the average Australian does.
There is a reason a University is named after him.
Churchill's relationship with Menzies wasn't any better. Menzies wrote in his London war diaries that he thought Churchill was an infantile tyrant surrounded by yes men. His disputes with Churchill over Greece, Tobruk, the AIF and Australian Generals have been covered in detail by Horner and Freudenberg.
Menzies went to Britain for one purpose .... To become PRIME MINISTER of the Commonwealth of Great Britain and her Dominions.... Australia, New Zealand, Canada UK et al. Such was his ego.
pig iron bob , was just your typical Tory
Tik history does a vid titled Churchill was a idiot
Menzies wasa brilliant lawyer but had no military experience. Churchill had been an army officer, a prisoner of war, a war correspondent, a World War I brigade commander while still in Parliament, been shot at in wars on four continents, been Minsiter for the Navy, was a devoted student of military history, and even learned how to fly.
Churchill earned the Nobel Prize for Literature for his enormous history of the Second World War, in which he used first-hand sources such as his own telegrams to Roosevelt and Stalin.
@@donaldgraham6414 and? He still interfered with the Norway operation and messed it up he was incompetent in those matters as proven by glipply
Menzies left Australia undefended, Churchill regarded Australia as nothing more than an expendable British colony. It was John Curtin who made sure Australia was able to defend itself against the Imperial Japanese Armed Forces. Churchill didn't just despise John Curtin, he despised Australians in general ever since WW1, regarding us as cannon fodder.
Good ol' Pig Iron Bob.
@@benfowler1134 We'd never sell iron to build the navy of our rivals ever again, right?
It was Australia's job to defend itself. The small Australian industrial complex took to long to develop and produce its own modern armaments. The leadership at the time was warned by members of the public but this fell on deaf ears.
Australia as a country was under industrialized not as a result of Britan.
@@benfowler1134 They sent it all back as bombs, to show us what they'd done with it.
@@DBolt-xb7sg _It was Australia's job to defend itself_ - Yes it was. So Curtin brought our troops back to where they belonged. Australia was a country of less than 7 million people in 1939. It had already been through WW1 and was still recovering from the impact of that loss of young working-age men. Industrialisation was in proportion to the population at the time.
Its been downhill for Australian politicians since the 70s , once they worked out how profitable for them to abandon the Australian people and started representing big business , they found dishonesty and lies can provide a very nice bank account for themselves , any public servant who becomes a millionaire is a crook .. cheers
Yep. They're corrupt.
@@redtobertshateshandlesremind me, which was the liberal party member who held 4 seats and still couldn’t get anything done?
That's true of the Labor ones, starting with Whitlam.
Money is not the motive for corruption.
@@redtobertshateshandles Yes -- But money is not what they are after -- Its cultural conflict
my dad always said Curtin was the greatest PM. He also said Bob Menzies earned the nickname "Pig Iron Bob" because for many years before the war Menzies sold immense amounts of scrap metal to the Japanese which came back at us as airplanes and ships (that was the way he put it anyway).
There's a bit more to it. When Japanese belligerence became clear, the waterside workers decided they shouldn't load the pig iron on to the ships. Menzies took the line that a signed contract is a signed contract, the pig iron was Japan's, and he forced the loading to go ahead. The actual quantity was not great, about 300,000 tonnes (Japan's steel consumption then was millions of tonnes), but Japan needed all the iron they could get for their war ambitions, so it would have made a useful difference if shipment had been stopped.
Curtin gets a gig in Civilization as one of the world’s great leaders!
Thanks
Wonderful. A computer game for incels.
@@jcoker423 waaaaah :((((( shut up champion
@@archiesullivan1838 It makes you blind and have hairy palms. Try the real thing.
@@jcoker423 oof shiver me timbers, so hard 🥶🥶🥶🥶
Having Churchill hate you is the greatest compliment of all time
Churchill did not desert Australia, or New Zealand for that matter. He is not hated in NZ as I think NZers understood the situation. I have heard an Australian telling a German tourist (in the early 60's) about Churchill abandoning Australia. I think this is why some Aussies hate him. He had no option. Britain was on it's knees and was simply unable to defend it's territories anywhere. Even it was a close run thing defending themselves.
Can’t believe I spent over a 100 hours across 13 years of schooling learning about Australia’s history and never once was taught about Curtin…
Awesome video as always gents!
-proud patreon
There's one problem with teaching people about him, he's Labor.
@jordyn3563
How old are you ?
I'm 52 and got taught about Curtin
(Edited - misspelled "got" with "git" and corrected)
When did you go through secondary school?
@@damienhudson8028 Which git taught you about Curtin?
When I was in school we had Curtin rammed down our throats.
Curtin, for his abilities to lead us in our darkest hour, is absolutely the greatest Australian PM. Thankfully no other PM has had to lead the nation under threat of invasion, and I hope to hell that never happens again.
Nonsense. Menzies led us through the Cold War, when there were active Communist insurgencies in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia, not to mention powerful Communist forces in our own country.
Unfortunately the times are coming soon. China is on the rise and so is Russia. Iran already is calling for death to the west. There is plenty to be concerned about.
@@jo6re3 Curtain is a legend in the state of Western Australia. Not only has he got a university named after him and his accomplishments as a leader. Even his political foes have a tremendous amount of influence & respect for him.
John Curtin. A true Aussie legend. Aside from being a charismatic good speaker, Churchill is highly overrated. When are we going to get a big hollywood budget John Curtin biopic? There's so many Churchill suckhole biopics.
None of those Churchill biopics cover the Indian famine either or Gallopoli
Would make an excellent prequel to Topgun
He was, wasn't he. John stood up for Australia, our greatest PM by far.
As for Churchill. He was a dreadful leader who had a gift for rhetoric, you could say he was the right man for the UK during WW2, but boy was he bad at governance. The London smog deaths says it all about him.
Give Hugh Jackman a break from the roids. And he could do it. He's surprisingly the right age.
we don't need hollywood? there is a movie called curtin with william mcinnes playing him which was really well done from what i remember
On behalf of America I would like to apologize to Australia, once more, for MacArthur.
I’ve seen several documentaries about MacArthur and I’ve taken an intense dislike to the man. On behalf of Australia I accept your apology.😂
Cheers mate 🇦🇺🇺🇸🍻
@@scroungasworkshop4663 mmm yeah. We in Australia owe much to the USA after being abandoned by Pommyland. Let's be fair.
@@noddy8607 Hey Noddy, I firmly believe that Australia owes the US and its people a huge thank you because if it were not for the US stopping the Japanese at the battle of Midway, Australia would have been the next to fall. I, like many Americans, just don’t like MacArthur. Cheers, Stu. 👍
Cheers mate, no hard feelings
@@ryanmalady376 Good on you Ryan, absolutely no hard feelings my friend. 👍👍👍
It is interesting to note that PM Curtain, was good friends with Menzies. Curtain (during the war) would regularly have dialogue with Menzies about logistics of the war. I personally am not a fan of Menzies, but it was good to,see some union during that period of time.
Conferring is routine coutesy and statecraft -- Not affection.
@@victorsauvage1890 correct. However they were friends!
My Soldier Relatives in WW2 had a Very Poor Opinion of Curtin !
Menzies came to power in 1939 on top of a shaky alliance of collapsed parties. There wasn't a lot of talent in his cabinet. Curtin as opposition leader, suggested a merger, both parties forming an emergency government.
Menzies being Menzies refused to share power, he wanted to run things.
Curtin was far less power drunk, and when he won government, opened his cabinet to coalition members, picking the best ministers from each party.
It was a solid, effective government, one Australia would never have had had Menzies stayed as PM.
More bombs were dropped on Darwin the first day of Japanese bombing raid than were dropped on Pearl Harbor.
Both raids were lead by Commander Mitsuo Fuchida.
(Darwin, several times and towns in W.A. and Queensland were bombed during the course of that war.)
My central Queensland town _still_ has the remnants of sandbags & dugouts near the airport - Pearl Harbour was hit twice; Australia was hit *multiple* times...
and no mention of the attack on Broome
Hi from Agnes Water. Which town are you referring to?
Mate don't make this a comparison that's just sad..
Australia got bombed so many times during WW2, it's insane
thanks for covering this absolute legend
It's no accident that Churchill NEVER visited Australia, especially AFTER WW2. He knew what sort of reception he would have been given! A very WARM ONE - even HOT!!!
Also it would have meant a sea voyage,and he hated being out of the limelight
John Curtin will always be the greatest PM we've ever had. As I commented on a previous video, the man literally gave his life for our country. Fantastic to see another great video Mr M! Job well done mate.
Australia owes John Curtin a great debt. A great man and a great Prime Minister ❤💙🤍
Australia's greatest Prime Minister.
Had great foresight and guts..
I somehow suspect Churchill would have HATED Hitler and Stalin more than Curtin.
He has a great Western Australian university named after him.
So true................
Regardless if you are LIBERAL or LABOR in your beliefs, John Curtin was a Politician you could respect. Mr Curtin was a patriot who had the best interests of his Country at heart. A man who would lead our Country through a world calamity that threatened the very existence of Australia. We have never seen the like of this leadership again, and never will. John Curtin was a man of honour, making some of the toughest decisions ever to befall a Prime Minister.
I knew a WWII veteran who was a avid, active & devoted Labor Party member, because of John Curtain. I use to listen to the War Stories and the pacific.
Yes -- those blokes express themselves so well -- Discussion fo political controversy may have been of a far higher standard at that time because there was just a lot more discussion generally -- Tiny children heard their parents and the parents of the parents -- as well as the older siblings -- bigger families so lots of older siblings chatting gently but constructively -- chatting quietly and casually for hours each evening -- No television -- Not even a radio in may houses -- Just popular classics -- and conversation.
And I listened to a space alien.
My dad was active in the RSL. I watched the old diggers change their views over decades. My impression was just over half of them, say 60s- 80s, would have been Labor voters. They got more conservative as they aged. By the late 80s, 90s, many of those who were left had turned to the coalition.
@@jcoker423 Your comment confirms itself.
@@Gough-jf9zf People do tend to become more conservative as they age. Some people put that down to wisdom and experience.
But Labor has also changed. As Kim Beasley snr said 'when I joined Labor it was full of the cream of the working class, all I see before me now are the scum of the Middle Class'. That was in the 1970's.
As a new Australian citizen (took the Oath last Sat.) - really appreciate this video. The history of this period is taught with a heavy ‘Northern Hemisphere - centric’ emphasis back ‘home’.
Hello fellow Australian. I appreciate you taking the time to learn more about our Australian history. It's nice to hear you are curious and interested in knowing more about how your new home came to be.
Obviously, not all of the things done in the past were admirable, but there are many fasinating pieces of history of how Australia came to be what it is today.
One of my favourite pieces of our history are the Afghan camel trains of the outback. Without them we wouldn't be as we are today, yet they are all but forgotten except for the wild descendants of their dromedaries roaming the outback and the Ghan Train.
After that came Tom Kruse, trucking supplies through the desert. That's another great old story from the past.
Curtin was one of the very few that stood up to Churchill’s dictatorship. Churchill’s focus was on Britain and th😅e European theatre, he couldn’t have cared less about Australia’s security. Fortunately for us, Curtain mobilised our economy and armed forces for a defence posture. Fortunately, our geographic location made Australia the obvious base for American forces to fight the Japanese. Such a shame that he did not live to see victory. He gets my vote for GOAT PM.
*dictator. Who was voted in and out.
@@rhys5567 Call him an authoritarian if you like. You KNOW what he meant.
Total nonsense. Curtin was a 2nd rate polie. The armed services had been mobilised by Menzies
@christskingdomiscoming5964 basically ... yes.
We thought we were a beloved child of fhe Crown, so The Mother Country would guide us and protect us.
(Nowadays it's our good and honest, reliable ally America we expect to stand by us and show us the way to go/defend ourselves)
@christskingdomiscoming5964 Australia was slathered in blather and expectation about "Mother England" protecting her colonial children for decades. The spoken and unspoken message was England will fight to protect you. It was the general consensus because it had been fed to Aussies for years.
Churchill misrepresented the English defenses in Asia and made much of "Impregnable Singapore", telling us we were much safer that in reality.
Thanks for the video, it's hard to find good content about Australia on RUclips.
Sandpaper
Excellent presentation & very educational. This Scot lived in Australia in the 80's & 90's & I found Australians to be a very fair, very tough & resilient people. I will endeavour to read up on this great Australian John Curtin. Many thanks.
As a Canadian, this is the first time I've ever heard about John Curtin (I'm not good at Australian history, and only a little bit better at Canadian history). What a legend this man was!
There’s no question that Curtin was Australia’s greatest Prime Minister - by the length of the straight. Where Menzies failed, he succeeded. His reorientation towards the United States was a seismic shift, and not even Whitlam’s pivot to Asia comes close in terms of significance.
In a land of (political) midgets, a short man will be the tallest.
Whitlam's muck up of the economy? Rejected by the popular vote ?
Whitlam was an idiot, sacked.
Hey I'm curious what is the guy saying at 10:49
I don't wanna say it but all I can hear is "what the sigma"
I was so confused when I heard it
Could it be STIGMA,,,but was mispronounced
"cygnus" prehaps
Curtin was the man for the moment in time which placed him in the Prime Ministership. Even while insisting on separate parties, Curtin still included Menzies and other conservative mp's in his War Cabinet and Advisory War Council. He was a man of integrity and held the view that Australian needs in the war came first which put him at great odds with Churchill. Similarly, he made sure that Australia's needs were also addressed when dealing with the Americans.
Funny how when he was PM early on in the war, Menzies refused to include Labor MPs in the ministry. Despite the fact he led an unstable alliance of other party dregs.
@@Gough-jf9zf I guess that is part of the difference between the two men; one was a monarchist to his bootstraps [Remember the cringe-worthy quote he made during her state visit? "I did but see her passing by and yet I love her till I die." She actually cringed and was at a loss for words at that state dinner.]; Curtin, however, was an avowed Australian first and a True blue Aussie to boot. Menzies was an experienced politician and had good contacts within the British government. So, Curtin was prepared to set aside all differences in order to create the best response to the imminent Japanese threat.
@@trig1900 Menzies' obsequiousness towards England and the royals was embarrassing. I agree with your post 100%.
Curtin did it the right way.
This is what an Australian looks like. Man represents our values through and through. We wouldn't be who we are without you John Curtain
What a Load of B.S the Americans Won the War, Not Curtin !
At the very least you could get his name right.
@@oo0Spyder0oo thank you John blinds 🤔
@@GrubbHubbClips no, he was actually just playing politics, it wasn't about Churchill at all
Actually, i think you’ll find that Curtin was churchill’s second run in with australian prime ministers. keith Murdoch was sent to gallipoli by prime minister Fisher and smuggled the ‘gallipoli letter’ out to asquith and fisher, who I think was in London at that time. That brought about the end of the gallipoli campaign and the disgrace of senior british officials - especially during the investigations of the dardenelles committee - which fisher (having resigned as prime minister) was a key part of as a member of the committee. That brought about churchill’s disgrace and downfall from the office of Lord Admiral and he went to the western front as the commander of one of the Guards battalions.
So by 1942 Churchill had very good personal reasons not to like Australian prime ministers.
I was 9 and not great at speaking and in our "oc" class we had to do a speech every 2 weeks one time we did Australian leaders i got john curtin. I never scored so well, reading about this great man truly inspired me I became empassioned in a way I never was his grit, determination and fearlesness respresented Australia a small nation in a world that was being torn to pieces. Even now I tear up a little knowing he died just before the war ended(was probabbly a setup). Will never forget the name John Curtin. True Australian.
It’s a great day when Mr Mitchell uplaods
Thanks Joe!
Thanks for this upload..
I think I've read just everything there is to read on curtin & also used to stop by his statue when i was in freo.
Curtin was a great man, somewhat conflicted "in his personal life" but a statesman with the utmost devotion to ensure Australia was to be saved from a Japanese invasion.
His relationship with Macarthur's was very interesting, Curtin played to Macarthur's ego & they literally used each other for gain. Whilst of course , Macarthur's was only interested in himself because he was on the nose at home. Curtin was the opposite , absolutely selfless when it came to Australia's best interest.
Whilst he did so much for Australia, i oftern wonder what othe legacies he would have left behind if he wasnt taken from us so early.
I heard that albo also admires curtin Its auch a shame that their nothing alike.
Thanks again.👍
Thanks mate! Means a lot from someone who’s seen the statue. I chose Fremantle as my grade cricket team on Cricket 19
I'm sure that you will agree readily to EDIT your comment that Curtain was "CONFLICTED".
Im sure that you will not hesitate to sort the record straight -- And say that Curtain WAS NOT "CONFLICTED" about any question of policy which was of significance for the MASS of the Australian WORKING CLASS.
Curtin was a man ahead of his time when he recognised the military incompetence of Churchill. Though, TBH, Gallipoli should have been a big clue.
Gallipoli was a good idea. But poor follow through and a stout German/Turkish defense. There weren't just ANZACs there.
There's a reason Churchill is remembered and Curtin is not. The latter was a non-entity.
I'm no fan of WSC, but there's a reason why Aus is not important, it's because it isn't.
@@jcoker423 It's rather important to Australians.
Gallipoli was a catastrophe from its' conception - a handful of obsolete warships heading up through the Dardanelles weren't going to make Turks surrender. It was one of Churchill's first blunders. He went on to the Dieppe raid, the invasion of Norway, HMS Habbakuk, the Greek debacle. The only military competence in Churchill's line was Marlborough's.
@@mikestanmore2614 The invasion of Norway happened under Chamberlain, it's why he stood down. WSC's Gallipoli (a relie died there) plan was watered down by the military, The Dieppe raid was just that, a raid to test German defenses (Canadians don't complain about it, like Aussies would). Greece/Crete agreed... although Hitler never again used paratroopers. Habbakuk, a typical WSC idea, not thought through.
I'd agree that he was not militarily competent, unlike Malborough, he became an MP thorough self publicity of his exploits in South Africa, Sudan & Afghanistan. He 'mobilised the English language and sent it to war'
His most lasting legacy (bad) was sending in the black & tans. He also insisted on unconditional surrender instead of a peace with the Wehrmacht and to give them a hand with the Red Army. Leading to 40yrs of subjugation of Middle Europe and a bankrupt Britain.
But for him Curtin was about as important as the Lord Mayor of Birmingham. We weren't a real country then, and we aren't now. A real country can protect it's borders and, if needed, project power.
We have never paid our way defensively, riding on the coat tails of greater powers and relying on kith & kin. When they prioritise their own homelands we whinge.
@@mikestanmore2614 Don't let yourself be drawn -- J. Coker is in pain -- He feels inferior. That strident phrasing suggests that he is an American far right boy -- He is jealous of the working class in HIS OWN country -- But the working class in HIS OWN country do not openly voice support for socialism.
Australia offers a great beacon of hope to the working class in the US.
You sell the fleet assembled quite short, 29 battleships, 26 cruisers, 25 destroyers, 13 submarines, and an aircraft carrier is not 'a handful', and I seriously doubt anybody, not even the most diehard CUP member would have continued fighting in the face of 29 battleships and half a million men.
The plan failed for a number of reasons. Firstly, bad intelligence, Churchill, and the other navy planners were using bad intelligence on Ottoman preparedness and troop strength.
Secondly, forces were dispersed, as the landings took place on five beaches, and both the British and ANZAC forces were unable to seize their objectives.
Finally, the turks were well led and well positioned with highly experienced German officers in command, notably Liman Von Sanders, along with a plan to hold the heights and react quickly, never allowing the British to gain the upper hand.
John Curtin is Australia's Greatest PM. Nobody else is close to him.
If John Curtin were alive today, you can bet he would firmly tell the U.S. and the British exactly where to shove their AUKUS submarines. Known for his strong leadership and independent stance during World War II, Curtin wouldn't shy away from expressing his disapproval of such military agreements if he believed they compromised Australia's sovereignty or strategic interests.
What wrong with Australia having nuclear powered subs?
It was Australia who hatched the AUKUS plan and wanted the subs. They were not forced upon us and whilst aspects of AUKUS are questionable, having nuclear submarines in the long term is probably a good strategic move.
@christendomempire5657 Having to bow down to the will of another will never make make nuclear subs worth it.
Sure, maybe like Keating he would be brown-nosing the CCP.
Curtin was big on Australian defence capabilities, so I doubt he would oppose ANKUS. Quite the opposite. He would be arming us to the teeth ASAP in the face of the PRC showing every sign of repeating Japan’s ambitions. Curtin might have been the 1940’s version of a middle finger raising lefty, but above all he was a pragmatist. It’s a hard to run a country when it’s in flames, so defence comes FIRST. He clearly understood that basic truth. A pity some today don’t.
This video was on recommended, Im glad it was keep it up mate this is great stuff!
WA REPRESENTT my god it's so rare for Australia to be taken seriously, let alone us here in the west. What a pm* John Curtin was, honest to god if only we had the balls today to stop being so subservient to the US. and it's whims, we should stand as our own country instead of a puppet in the Pacific
Yeah imagine Curtin at the Aukus table
how are we a puppet
After the experiences of Whitlam and Rudd... no future Australian prime minister will dare anger our masters.
President?
And how would we defend ourselves? Your all gay and don’t like guns, you’ve got no navy, and your against nuclear weapons, in short you’re subservient to someone, rather USA then China
One Australian wartime Prime Minister who I will always deeply respect. He set a precedence on how our Prime Ministers should represent us.
RIP John Curtin
Without the decisions and fortitude of John Curtin, Australia as we know it wouldn't exist and none of us would be here today to comment on this video.
Curtin really wasn’t that important in the outcome of the war. Japan wasn’t in a position to invade Australia (even if everything had gone right for them).
As it was what, what really stopped Japan was the US Navy in Battles of Coral Sea & more importantly Midway.
Fanboy much?
@@tony41231 Curtin _was_ important in defending Australia the Japanese and wouldn't have come down thru New Guinea without serious plans to at least try.
Another important thing was allaying worry. The population had developed very strong fear of invasion. Curtin bringing the troops home did a lot to calm those fears.
@@tony41231 Elementary dear Tony,except that Curtin was the PM we as a Nation needed at the time. I could equally state that Churchill wasn't that important in the outcome of the war either. The FIRST defeat suffered by the Japanese Imperial Army in WWII was in New Guinea, by Australians including my Uncle. Their resistance and sacrifice,like that of Curtin should not be diminished. As for Churchill's qualities,unlike Curtin's ,the less said the better.🙄
My grandfather in the second world war punched his superior officer (an English dog) for blaming our boys for Singapore.
English command wanted him incarcerated, Australian command just put him on a ship with only Australians.
Great -- I can picture it clearly -- as I can sense the spite of the bloke who uttered that calculated slur upon the Australians.
(PS I would only say that the same British officer would be saying the very same sort of thing about members of HIS OWN SOCIETY whom he felt were BETTER MEN than he was.
OK so it's not true that Aussies soldier in Sg cut & run (Dwyer). Sounds like a BS story to me, tovarisch.
@@jcoker423 Australians will always be too stubborn to leave our own behind.
@@jcoker423 what are on about?
made up story
Curtin is easily Australia's greatest PM, there are simply no other contenders.
Hmm,…I don’t know about that, 🥔 spud !…I’ll pop me money on John Gorton !
Maybe because they are all 3rd rate?
Rubbish Gough Whitlam was good all the australian capitals got proper sewage under him
I was born in 1965 and they still had out side toilets by the mid 1970's that had ended they put sewage tanks in in the country towns and pumped sewage in the cities
@@evangiles4403 Whitlam built the sewage in every state ? He must have been very busy.
@@evangiles4403that’s a claim to fame never made by Gough
If you have to lie about his opponents to make Curtin look ggod, then he obviously wasn’t.
First - Churchill.
Churchill was faced with a world-wide war. It is utterly dishonest to claim that he was not concerned for either colonies or former colonies. He was trying to use the available resources to deal with what he regarded as the most pressing needs. Those who worked closely with him stated clearly that he would listen to those who disagreed with him. He would argue ferociously in defence of ideas, but if the opposing argument was better, he would accede. He was not a dictator. He had no power without the acceptance of the Cabinet, or the support of the Parliament. Those who wish to blame Churchill for any one thing, have to accept that he did not have the personal power to determine policy and strategy. Britain did not work that way.
Those who want to blame him for failures like Gallipoli, have to admit - if they are honest - that Churchill did not plan it, he was not responsible for the faulty intelligence, and he was not responsible for carrying it it. Gallipoli only happened because the Army and Navy were ALSO convinced that it would succeed. Critics should keep in mind that there had never been an opposed landing on that scale , that warfare was still developing, and that opening another front was a way to reduce the carnage on the Western Front. There were more British troops than Australian in the Dardenelles, and they took more casualties. How many people knw that the man that they denigrate as ac”toff”, who did not care about casualties, resigned his Cabinet position and volunteered to serve as an officer in the trenches of the Western Front. He did not ask others to do anything he wasn’t prepared to do himself.
Menzies. ..
Menzies was elected PM in April 1939. Exactly HOW was he supposed to put Australia on a war footing in the time available? He DID start the building of the 2nd AIF, the increase of the CMF and put in place the legislative framework for the use of manpower , industry and resources for the war effort.
Menzies had very similar insights to those for which the Curtin-cult praise Curtin. He recognised the developing threat of Japan, disagreed with Churchill over the security offered to Australia by Singapore and the Royal Navy, and was similarly reluctant to see Australian troops over-committed in the Mediterranean. Menzies recognised that America was an increasingly important to Australia ,especially in the light of any potential war.
Those who wish to shout “but pig-iron” are probably the same people who claim that Japan only entered the war because the Americans refused to sell them oil. The reality is that we knew that Japan was deficient in natural resources, and there was a school of thought that nations which traded raw material, would be less likely to fight over them.
So…. Churchill was no villain, and Curtin as PM built on a foundation laid by Menzies.
Curtin’s failures were his almost-slavish support of MacArthur. Out of his depth, Curtin leaned so heavily on the American that Australian Commanders felt unheard and .unsupported. Curtin appointed one of the least-respected officers in the Australian Army as its head, and then left Blamey constantly concerned with his political position instead of being able to focus on his own responsibilities. A lot of good men died and excellent Commanders were sidelined because Curtin kowtowed to MacArthur’s political agenda.
His second failure was to refuse to rein in the socialist Unions. Many Australian troops were very bitter because Socialist Unions denied them weapons and equipment. My Father was a New-Guinea man, and the experience left him despising Unions and Labour Governments.
Curtin is not Australia’s worst PM, but he probably gets as much support as he does because he died before he had to face the judgement of post-war Australians.
Interesting post - well said! Oh, and it's not usually well known that Curtin, when in opposition, was engaged in talks with Japanese diplomatic staff, proposing to appease Japan, by offering them access to Western Australian iron ore....Pig Iron John, anyone?
Well not many agree with that assessment.
I went to John curtin college of the arts Highschool, and later Curtin University, both located in Western Australia and named after the GOAT. Proud to have attended.
Such a brilliant video. Thank you for creating this documentary about Curtin and the surrounding history of Australian politics at the time. Excellent job indeed.
It is a shame our current PM doesn't take a leaf out of his book.
It is a bigger shame that 2 of the 3 most recent previous prime ministers are vying for the wooden spoon.
Hard times create tough men, .......
Yes! (As a comparison -- when anyone today looks at a recording/ 'video' of Hawke in full flow during Question Time -- and compares Hawke to Rudd, Hawke looks like a Titan - (See for example Hawke addressing the us Congress on trade policy.) However the mild mannered Bill Hayden positively looked down upon Hawke -- and initially said, "I'd never make way for someone like Bob Hawke. If we accept the interpretation of Hayden as correct -- and we can see the superiority of Hawkes performance in Congress over the capacity of someone like pompous little Rudd : Look at the distance between Curtain and Rudd!)
While all the political arguments were going on, Ill equipped and raw recruits were fighting off a Japanese invasion on the North side of Papua/New Guinea. Often called the chocolate soldiers because They were expected to melt when attacked. That's a piece of history that should never be forgotten in the annals of Australian military
Yeah, the CMF were amazing as a first line of defence, especially the poorly trained and widely despised 39th Battalion. They were also sometimes called 'koalas' since 'they were not to be shot at or exported'. They earnt a well deserved place in our military history but sadly one that still not enough of us are aware of.
@@sagamer3594 One of my Uncles was involved in that. He wouldn't talk about it and never went to ANZAC day. In fact, I had 4 Uncles who were all involve in some way. One spent time in Tobruk, 1 In Bomber command in England as maintenance/flight crew, 1 was a 'cook' in Port Moresby and the other was part of the force involved on the Kokoda trail. None of them talked about what happened. Just know the one who was a cook was really handy when it came to breaking down anything from chickens and rabbits to large wild pigs and deer.
@@davidmcintyre998 It was a specific description of the 'militia' force on the North coast of New Guinea. They proved everyone wrong with a fighting retreat when badly outnumbered and low on virtually all supplies.
Yes! I sense that jungle warfare -- and fighting right on the Equator itself -- must have demanded extraordinary strength of character.
Fantastic video. Great to find a quality channel that discusses Australian history :)
You can tell he is one of the greatest Aussie PMs since one of Australia's best universities (in Perth) is named after him.
Sorry ... Curtin was a great PM, but Curtin Uni? second rate
@@gswombatWell its 9th nationally and 1st in Australia (and argueably the world) in mineral and mining which is what really matters in WA😅
@@deathdrone6988 14th rated according to THE. Substandard.
I went to Curtin. Example: 3 hour open book Contract Law final exam. I wrote 14 A4 pages as an answer. I got 88%. There were Chinese students who could not speak nor write English who passed.
@@deathdrone6988 And compared to the entire world ?
Curtin and Whitlam were two of the best PM's we've ever had or are likely to have, while the two most destructiver were easily Howard and Morrison. A PM needs to have both an intellectual and moral core as in the case of Whitlam and Curtain, sadly for Australians the same cannot be said of Howard and Morisson.
101%👍👍
What about Menzies and the Vietnam war.
@@garryjones2609 another traitor.
@@garryjones2609 pig iron Bob, look it up.
Morrison more destructive than Abbott and Fraser?
The quality of this episode was sensational Mr. M. Curtin is certainly the best PM, followed by Ben Chifley
Churchill: "I am a country member!"
Curtin: "I remember."
It was actually said by a member the Australian Country Party (renamed the National Party) and Whitlam replied "Remember?. I'll never forget".
I think it sounds better coxing from Curtain -- and directed at Churchill.
This is the perfect podcast I’m looking for. More please
Curtin stood up to the dismissive arrogance of Churchill.
Churchill thought nothing of sacrificing Australia to the Japanese.
Churchill is also responsible for choosing the ill-fated landing on the Gallipolli peninsula by the ANZACs.
Churchill's plan for the Dardanelles was for a purely Naval force to destroy the Ottoman forts and make their way up the straights and bombard Constantinople into submission. He never had any intention to put ground troops into his campaign. That decision was made by Kitchener as Secretary of State for War and the British Government.
I am teaching World History; textbooks fail to properly address the Australian perspective. This is an informative video to watch.
Because the Aus perspective is not very important. It's a sideshow.
@@jcoker423Put a sock in it, mate.
@@anthony-kelly We are a sideshow. Nothing more or less. Until we pay our way militarily.
This is insane brainrot but does anyone else hear "what the sigma" at 10:49 😂
Including Curtins alcoholism and DV? Include the favt he wanted to withdraw from ww as "socialists shouldnt go to ear against socialiss". Unfortunately for him most Labor MPs actually agreed with Menzie's declaration of war against Germany and Japan.
I'm curious to know more about the idea that Churchill wanted to abandon Australia in the event of war with Japan. Many sypnopses mention how the Arcadia Conference prioritised a European theatre over a Pacific one, however, I've found no mention of Australia being sacrificed. I did find (what I believe to be) the original documents on the Joint Chiefs of Staff website.
On this site, I couldn't find any mention of Churchill wanting to abandon Australia. I did, however, find this:
"SIR JOHN DILL drew attention to a personal telegram* from General Wavell to the Prime Minister and himself, [...] from a purely military point of view, General Wavell's recommendation that at least the first Division of the Australian Corps should be sent to Burma was the correct one. [...] The ultimate defeat of Japan depended upon the United Nations holding Burma and
Australia."
JCS poorly digitised this document. If you copy the text, you'll see spacing, incorrect characters and all sorts of errors. What I did find, however, were several mentions of Australia being a vital link in the US Navy's Pacific strategy, several mentions of using Australia for air support in the Pacific, as well as discussions of providing fighter aircraft to both Australia and New Zealand.
Don't get me wrong, I despise Churchill. A large portion of his legacy revolves entirely around his presence in World War Two. Had he not taken office, his biggest contribution to British history might've been Gallipoli. With that said, something about the wording of leaving Australia in a "Europe first" strategy did make me want to know more.
Finally a sensible comment. WSC was England first, Aus was secondary or tertiary. Canada was the vital link to the USA.
As an upper class imperialist he wouldn't have had any time for laconic Australians or any other plebs who didn't tug the forelock.
He probably disliked deValera the most. I would argue the black & tans were his greatest mistake/legacy.
I'm not even sure his WW2 strategy was correct. He had some good people around him and he managed to get the Sepo's onside. That was the difference, US industrial might. Interestingly AH only mentioned the USA once in Mein Kampf, and it was not about their industrial capacity. AH had no scooby doo.
I can't cite you the references without doing research first however I understand that Roosevelt and Churchill agreed (perhaps at Arcadia) that if Australia fell, they would recover it later, rather than investing in preventing it falling in the first place. Likely any document showing this will be well hidden in the archives for even Australia does this where they think the information might damage inter-country relations (like with the US Navy sinking HMAS Canberra).
The deeper scandal of Churchill lies with the Imperial Defence Policy, which was determined between the UK and Dominions in the inter-war years. This placed the UK as first priority for imperial defence and second was Singapore/Malaya. This was well understood within the military and certainly by Australia, who likely fought hard for this during the meetings. What happened however is Churchill didn't give a damn for this long standing policy and starved every theatre of scarce resources in order to prioritise Egypt, where a purely defensive stance was more than sufficient to hold the country and Canal. By the time Japan attacked Malaya, Singapore was so deficient in resources and skilled personnel (on paper Perceval was fine but he was not seasoned), that the result is now well known. Before the war the British spoke of Singapore as the Gibraltar of the East and an impregnable fortress, so when it fell, it was a very great shock to Australians. When the lack of preparations became well known, there was understandable anger and when Churchill and the British blamed the Australians (a completely raw division), this was insult on injury and left a lasting bitterness towards Churchill in particular (made even worse by resisting the return of the 2nd AIF).
@@montecarlo1651 Very fair point about Singapore being weakened as a result of the North African theatre, although I'd imagine the IDP lacked the foresight to consider Britain fighting alone. France's surrender after a (somehow) unexpected invasion of Belgium probably threw several plans out the window. Losing the continental mainland in around a year did put Egypt under more of a threat than it otherwise would have.
Still, I wouldn't put it past Churchill to blame Australia for Singapore's fall, considering his last strategic blunder being Gallipoli.
@@jckistan It isn't a case of the IDP being out of date, Malaya was important by any standard, being rich in rubber, oil and tin. The IDP envisaged a two front war and saw Singapore as being Britain's outpost from which the war could be taken to the Japanese. It still served this role despite the fall of France. The point is, Britain had access to the necessary resources to hold Singapore according to the IDP and it was Churchill's intervention that redirected those resources to Nth Africa, which was of more interest to Churchill. (He was notoriously anti-Indian and held highly racist attitudes towards the Japanese.) If Churchill didn't constantly fritter away resources with premature attacks and adventures in Greece (not wanted by the Greeks, who rejected the first offers for the realistic fear of inviting the Germans into their war, as was exactly the case), then there would have been more than enough for Malaya.
Churchill is a key historical figure for his galvanising the British people and holding out against the appeasers arguing for surrender. He was an inspiration in Britain's darkest hour an a light that the oppressed people of Europe could look towards for hope. He was also a rank amateur soldier constantly interfering to great ill effect (Norway, Nth Africa, Greece, Singapore), and hurt Britain's war effort and cost needless lives. He used his history to ensure his version of events became dominant after the war and he smoothly glossed over his role or, in the case of Arthur Harris, tried to shift the blame for dubious decisions onto others (Harris threatened to resign if Churchill didn't withdraw correspondence to him which subtly shifted blame to him for Bomber Command). Churchill's seedier conduct is well overdue for examination and there is no better place to start than Singapore.
Finally, though I am sure you don't intend it, it is actually quite insulting to say Britain stood alone in 1940. It didn't. Canada, Australia, Sth Africa, India, NZ and Britian's colonies made a huge contribution to Britain's war effort and India's in particular (having no national govt to defend it at the time), is badly neglected. If you look into the distribution of the British army during the war, you might get a nasty surprise. A vast majority of the British army did not leave Britain until the invasion of Italy and most of all, the invasion of France; you can see this in casualty rates too. Most of the theatres before Italy were substantially fought by troops from non-British sources. I don't write that to be provocative, I myself had no idea until I read a modern history of the war (by British historians), where this information was in a table.
PS I really appreciated your original post referencing actual documents by the way.
@@montecarlo1651 Yeah, I see where you're coming from, thanks for clarifying. Apologies if it sounded like I was one of those "Britain stood alone" bunch, I don't subscribe to that belief at all. I'm well aware that the Dominions played a vital role during the war since day 1, going neglected in historical discussions surrounding the war effort. A lot of non-British forces fought hard in British theatres, notably the Polish, New Zealanders and Indians in Italy, the Australians (whose Pacific efforts continued way past the victory in Europe, stretching into late 1945) as well as many pilots from occupied Europe.
Also, thanks for that last bit. I'm seeing a lot of figures and prominent voices in communities gatekeep their sources, sometimes out of poor practice, sometimes out of malicious intent. I've gone on record calling out poor source citation (which I am guilty of in the past). I want people to know where I get my information from. If it's wrong, I'd love people to tell me! Discussion surrounding history and real world issues deserve to be met with factual integrity and a willingness to address false information, should it ever arise.
Australia became a nation on January 1st, 1901. From then to now we have had only two foreign policies.
From Jan 1, 1901 to 1942 it was “Suck up to the British Empire.”
From 1942 to present it is “Suck up to the American Empire.”
We need strong friends to protect us because we do not have the population to do it all ourselves.
Thank you John Curtin for realising this and pivoting.
Technically three now:
1990s-present is “Suck up to the Chinese monolith.”
@@clangaman2810 That’s just trade…defence now, and for the foreseeable future is: U.S.A!….U.S.A!
I believe the Australian geography is our greatest ally.
@@davidparris7167 Absolutely. Most folks have never spent time outside the cities. God help any invading army in the north. Nothing to drink or to eat, desperate supply lines.
Noone's invading Straya. Too far, too hard.
I don't think I've ever been this early to one of your videos before 😊
Welcome!
John Howard was Australia’s greatest leg spinner.
Meaning leg puller...
I suggest Australia's greatest arse spinner,
Australia never wanted to surrender at Singapore..we were willing to fight to the last man. The English surrendered and cost many men to be murdered ...never let me hear a pom critisise the french or Italians ever again
Australia found the tactic of strategic withdrawal to stretch supply lines especially in jungle warfare & used effectively in png,Borneo,Malaya & Vietnam
Australia desperately needs a leader with the same gall and courage as John Curtain. Fingers crossed.
Best of luck in getting one mate.
The character of the members of parliament is a reflection of the membership of the rank and file of each of the major parties -- The mass of the population are NOT hot-headed thugs -- If we want better level of debate in parliament -- and better policy -- then the mass of the population must join one of the major parties to OFFSET the influence of the shallow and mechanical.
@@victorsauvage1890 I couldn't agree more. Society is ruled by those who turn up, they say
Imagine Tony Abbott as wartime PM- in awe of Mother England as Menzies was, and just as likely to obsequiously bow and scrape to "our betters". Obediently sending our troops on whatever ill-considered whim Churchill had that day. Backstabbing and conspiring to curry favour with the English powers.
@@Gough-jf9zf l won't try to imagine it because I'll have trouble sleeping.
I had no idea John Curtin had Irish heritage that's pretty damn cool I didn't know much about John Curtin I mean knew the obvious things that he was a great wartime Prime Minister in World War 2.
I knew about that. Also Lyons, Scullin, Chiefly, Keating, Rudd etc. actually a lot of Australia's PM were of Irish or Anglo-Irish heritage come to think of it. Definitely more than the United States Presidents
According to the Left !
It's funny because you guys would genuinely consider Curtin a fascist if you knew his beliefs
Mate this is really well made, but get rid of the giraffe it’s really off putting and is distracting from the great content around it
Agreed. The giraffe is childish.
Churchill hated Curtin because he exposed him for the liar he was. Curtin also threatened Churchill that if Australian soldiers, that were coming back from Europe to defend Australia to the North, were sent to Singapore he would send destroyers to fire on the British escort & bring them home. Churchill had indeed ordered the troop ships, with arms but no ammunition, to Singapore or Malaya/Malaysia today. Curtin had already dispatched several destroyers to intercept the convoy & bring the troops into Fremantle, which they did.
Curtin brought back War Torn Troops from the Middle East because he Flatly refused to Conscript Troops at Home, My Relatives were some of them and they had a very Poor Opinion of Curtin, he was a full on Socialist Pacifist !
Surprisingly good analysis. Gave some insight into Curtain's almost heroic story, quasi-religious temperment, sound political judgement and strangely noble battle with the bottle and associated illnesses. A decent, sincere and great PM.
This story should be more widely known, but it's messy and unpleasant so it's easier not to tell it. But Australia was shamefully undefended at the start of war - a war everyone could see coming - particularly in air defence; something Curtain correctly saw as key (rather than a navy). Our toadish attitude to England nearly cost us the country; not even wiling to offend UK manufacturors by asking the US for parts. We deliberately kept ourselves in an undeveloped agrarian state just to satisy British commerce. All in the ultimately vain hope that they'd have our backs if things hit the fan.
The truth is that Churchill was practically the villain in our story. And our ambassadors in the UK and US actively worked to undermine Curtain's government. Churchill diverted those Aus divisions towards Burma without even asking Curtain - putting their transports, undefended, in an active war zone that Curtain sweated blood over undiverting. Churchill still got away with pinching a whole battalion for useless guard duty. But it goes to show that, despite everything, they valued India over us. Meanwhile the UK "Asia-Pacific" fleet was where? Hiding around Madagascar, if you can believe it.
It's incredible to think that we didn't even have an ambassador to Japan; we were happy to completely rely on UK intelligence which self-servingly told us to not worry about them - because they weren't willing to help us if we knew the truth and they would rather see us invaded instead of turning to the US for help. Evil stuff imo.
But the founding fathers of the Commonwealth were wise enough to see the writing on the wall at the turn of the century; even then Britain was no longer capable of projecting force in the Asia Pacific. It was a decaying, paper power even pre-WW1. Our only chance was to federate and take things into our own hands. Weaker politicans succeeded them.
Well said 👍
Curtin had No Choice but to Fight the Japanese, and he Needed the Yanks being a Passive Socialist. The Yanks won the War against the Japanese, without any Help from Churchill or Curtin !
Hold on. Looking at the title of this video. "The man that Churchill hated most" wouldn't that be Hitler? Too many videos make assumptions about how people think.
Yep
Yes, so true! Curtin wins hands down.
Churchill sold Aussies out in WWI and Two. Curtin was Australia's greatest leader. No contest for who gets my admiration.
As I said above,how could Britain help us down under. His country was not in a position to do anything. On the brink of defeat. How arrogant to think they could drop everything and what? -ship the troops from Dunkirk to Australia.
Curtin lived in Western Australia and travelled days by train across the Nullabor to get to Canberra. He was no ones fool. Stood up to Churchill to save our Country.. He was humble and he was seen walking and catching the bus around Fremantle like any other person. Born in the east but he was ours in the west.
Was his house in WA saved as a historical monument? Hope so but WA is terrible when it comes to saving its heritage.
To be fair Menzies used to walk from Parliament House to the Canberra airport from time to time.
That was interesting mate. Thanks for your time and effort.
Great overview on Curtin, hands down one our best prime ministers! Shame most of his good work was undone by "Pig Iron BOB" after. I think you were too generous to Chruchill; he actively tried to redirect returning Australian troops to Malaya without any consent from Australian command. What's worse by that point that territory was just about lost and the Empire forces in full withdrawal... if the Aussies had try to make port they would have had to leave most of their supplies and equipment behind because it was packed for efficient transportation and NOT for deploying directly into a combat zone.
Perhaps! Thanks mate!
@@Mr_M_History The AIF 8th Division less a brigade had already been captured by the Japanese in Singapore. Over British and US objections, Curtin withdrew the AIF 7th Division from North Africa. With Burma about to fall, Churchill directed the British captains of the troopships to take the 7th Division to Burma. Curtin in turn, ordered the commanders of the 7th Division to take control of the troopships and sail to Australia. For a day, the troopships sailed in circles. Finally, Churchill gave way and the troopships sailed to Australia. The 7th Division took part in the battles on the Kokoda Trail in Papua New Guinea to defeat the Japanese. The AIF 9th Division remained in North Africa, until it was also withdrawn back to Australia. The 9th Division and possibly the 7th Division were offered to Macarthur to assist in the recapture of the Philippines. Macarthur refused the offer as he wanted the recapture of the Philippines to be an all American affair.
@@gary1477 Well said Gary, these are facts we should all be more aware of when discussing Churchill and Macarthur's roles in our wartime history.
@@sagamer3594 Aus has never paid their way. If you rely on others to defend your land, dont expect they will prioritise your land over theirs.
As Gary said - the returning AIF units were never going to Malaya - it had already been lost. But if you want to get angry - get very angry and our own home-grown stupidity when we literally dropped over 3000 men, many of who hadn't even completed basic recruit training yet and had never held a rifle, on the docks of Singapore in late January as reinforcement for the badly mauled 8th Division. These guys got about 7 days accelerated basic rifle practice and very simple lessons on working as a section and as a platoon before the Japanese crossed the straits and smashed straight into the during the night of February 8th. A lot of these poor blokes got surrounded and cut off in the dark and were never seen again. Those that did survive spent the rest of the war in Changi, on the Thai Burma Railway and scattered across a whole bunch of prison and slave labour camps across the Pacific and Japan.
By the time the Australian divisions arrived home the Japanese threat had receded. There was 0 chance they could take Port Moresby let alone attack Australia in an invasion. So our best troops were slogging through the jungle. Meanwhile the Canadians, British and US troops were at Normandy, liberating the camps, occupying Germany. Australians were not involved in those momentous events.
I had the pleasure of speaking to a veteran of the 7th division a few months ago who had joined in September 1939. He told me some interesting things, like that when they were in Greece on April 20th, 1941, they saw a Messerschmitt above, and thought they were about to be strafed. Instead the plane started writing in the sky with smoke, "51". You see, it was Hitler's birthday. He also bore no ill will or malice to the Japanese people having been in Japan in 1946.
The Japanese advance down the Kokoda track continued well after the first AIF units (who'd returned from North Africa and the Middle East theatres) joined the beleaguered 39th Bn. AIF and Militia units fell back several times after Japanese victories at Isurava and Brigade Hill and again Ioribaiwa which resulted in a further Australian withdrawal to Imita Ridge. It was at this point that the Japanese were ordered to withdraw back towards Buna to protect heir beachheads there (Gona, Buna and Sanananda). By this time, almost 3 Brigades of AIF veterans had been comitted to the battle. This was due to the defeat of Japanese forces on Guadalcanal and at Milne Bay where again - Australian Militia units (like the 61st and 25th Battalions) fought alongside 2nd AIF units to stop, pursue and destroy the Japanese forces there.
The 'threat' was not in any way 'reduced' before the veterans of the 2nd AIF returned home. Those threats were stopped and eventually destroyed by 2nd AIF units joining those battles alongside Militia units.
@@OldFellaDave They never had a chance of taking Port Moresby. Their force was what, less than a division's strength? Overstretched supply lines, barely anything to eat. Even if they had somehow taken it, it wouldn't have meant that they could actually attack Australia directly. They would have needed 300,000 men and more shipping than was available to invade Australia. And there was very little of value in bombing range from New Guinea.
For most of 1943-45 you had jungle warfare over undeveloped, tribal areas with no industrial value which could have been and were bypassed by the US Pacific Fleet anyway. The same could not have been said for Overlord which again Australia completely missed the bus on.
@@Adonnus100 I think you should read more about the range of Japanese bombers. Defence of Moresby was seen as vital by the US and Australia because of the need for access.
I know of a number of RAAF bomber boys who'd like to whack you about the ears. There plenty of them at D-Day. Not that we have ever acknowledged them. The French did though. There was certainly a reasonable chance they could take Port Moresby, but events at Milne Bay and Kokoda blunted them. The Japanese navy was quite set on it, but the US landing in Guadalcanal prevented reinforcement.
@@stringpicker5468 @stringpicker5468 What you have said does not contradict my statement. RAAF crews did not take part in the liberation of the camps, that is a fact unless you can prove otherwise. We don't have a substantial D Day legacy unlike Canadians, French British and Americans.
Operations post 1942 in New Guinea were essentially unimportant to the overall allied war effort, feel free to cite some sources with historian opinions which contradict.
I’m basically conservative, but I believe that John Curtin was the best Prime Minister we’ve ever had.
Agree 💯
The germany first strategy wasnt an abandonment of Australia. It was necessary for the allies since two of the three large allied powers were embroiled in the European war.
Bear in mind that the USSR was beyond desperate for material support and a 'second front'.
My father worked in Australia House during the war and he said that he thought Churchill had many shortcomings. He never mentioned Curtin that I can remember.
Maybe because he was a non-entity ?
@@jcoker423 hardly a non entity but as dad was on the other side of the world the news was local.
@@ianmontgomery7534 Your father was obviously a gracious man. Hopefully you've made notes of his observations for posterity.
No, what annoys me about the Left is the sanctification of their leaders and saying 'we'll only be a mature grown up country when we have an Aussie head of state. I'd rather have a jug-eared inbred 17k km away than 99% of our own village idiots.
A mature, independent country is one that can defend itself and, maybe, project force, not rely on the Poms/Sepo's; deep as the kinship is. Curtin only changed the protector from England to the USA out of necessity, not vision.
My parent's generation were v upset about the UK joining the EU, they felt betrayed. Now the UK has come back, cap in hand, for the free trade deal they had prior to 1972. I also hope AUKUS is a partnership of equals. I know the US/UK forces have only the highest respect for the ADF.
@@jcoker423 so bringing our troops back was not visionary?
@@ianmontgomery7534 That's a low bar for 'visionary'. Bringing the troops back was common sense. So I guess that commonsense puts Curtin among the best PMs.
No for me visionary would not only be bringing in m's of DP's after the war, but also nation building projects like Snowy 1 or extending the Ghan to Darwin. Integrating these DPs within a generation, and not ending up with ethnic enclaves.
But what has never been part of 'vision' in Aus is to make us independent. And I don't mean that we have a jug-eared inbred as head of state, but that we always rely on others for our defense.
When MacArthur said "I came through and I shall return" he meant the single event - travel on Australian train from Alice Springs to Terowie where he spoke it, immediately after arrival, on railway station. 3 days in terrible narrow gauge train crawling 30 kmh under Australian sun without any convenience, chosen under pressure of his wife against civilian DC3 airplane travel together with all other. It appeared to be enough even for him, so it was really his personal speach, not "We" but "I personally came through, ENOUGH, never more, better war on Bataan than this Australian shithole!"
The USA gave him the medal of honour for fleeing the Philippines 🇵🇭 now that is unbelievable.
Whats with the jet aircraft, while discussing WW2, not to mention the cartoon giraffe......? Bizarre.
chris, that is exactly what I was thinking. Can't really get around watching a Giraffe doing a youtube commentary.
Churchill publicly praised Hitler as late as November 1938.
There was no "Battle for Australia"
The Japanese never had any intention of invading Australia as their strategy was to take Post Morsbey and other places in New Guinea in order to
try and prevent the US using Australia as a base.
They had already taked the areas with rubber and oil and there was little or nothing in Australia that they wanted.
Japan was also embroiled in a war in China they didn't have the personnel to invade another large landmass.
China is where the biggest proportion of Japanese armies were fighting.
The Pacific war was largely a Japanese Navy exercise once they suffered the defeat at Midway it was pretty much over as far as any advances were
concerned.
Yes, Australians faught bravely as did the Japanese but in the end there in no point in tyring to overdramatise the situation.
What Austrailans may have thought ws going to happen in 1941 cannot outweighed by what history has actually revealed to be true.
Whatever, "embarressments" the Americans may have suffered in New Guinea they would have simply gotten on with destroying the Japanese
forces anyway.
Over-hyping Australia's contribution is to change reality. I understand that MacArthur seldom mentioned Australians in his reports.
No Australians were used in major land engagements in the Pacific they were relagated to lesser areas.
Australians would propably have been used again if the invasion of Japan had come to pass as they would have needed as many "bodies" as
possible. This is something the US has continiued to do in their wars in recent times, as Australia is willing to blindly follow them.
Finally, what's with the fighter jets silhouettes in your little animations. Couldn't you spare the time to create or find silhouettes of aircraft of that
era. Or is your knowledge of those wanting also?
Trrue
Mate, you have good points, but had the Coral Sea battle 18:38 the other way, New Guinea would have been really tough to hold. The divisions were needed on the trail. My Dad, a GI, met mum at a once in Townsville in the Spring of 1942. Mum was in the RAAF and helped send the signals to the allied fleet. I am an Aussie and American citizen, and I am very proud to be a dual citizen. Best wishes, Rick
John Curtin was a great priminister & politician not sacrificing our troops to Britain although hundreds of Aircrew were sent to Britain to support their bombing crews where many were lost in action along with the Canadians & english crews. He kept most of our troops to contend with the Japanese invasion.
YUP, it's why the British always had an axe to grind with the USA. They couldn't manipulate us for their perverted imperial purposes.Until FDR agreed to some of Churchill brain dead ideas,then later told him how it was going to be. The diggers did a fine job considering their limited resources
Churchill probably looked down on all "Colonial" / mere British Dominion leaders ! 😮
Curtin was Irish/ Catholic.
Less than human, old chap. 😂
I'm 50% Irish Catholic ancestry.
I see it.
Even today people assume that I'm English. 😂
He looked down on anyone who wasn't in his class. Mind the shoulder chip, matey !
He was also one of the few PMs we've had who've been jailed because he refused to support conscription
Both Curtin's father and Churchill's father had syphillis
I rather think you are claiming a position that is 1. popular with any Australian and 2. Inaccurate from the point of view that Churchill had to deal with people far more dangerous to Britain in the the House of Lords. People who thought giving Churchill the leadership of the war cabinet were offering him a poison chalice in the form of inevitable surrender to Germany ending his career. These people actively argued for the surrender and tried undermining Churchill persistently during 1940. By the way, it was Australian troops that failed to hold the Japanese assault into Singapore and down the Malay peninsular despite larger numbers and prepared defences.
Yeah
Curtin is the GOAT Australian PM.
The only issue with this is Japan never had any plans to invade Australia, only to close off Australian supply lines from the US.
He got a shit load wrong.
Yes and no, the Japanese Navy wanted to invade Australia their army didn't. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II
The Navy mentioned it once, in the days after the fall of Singapore and rapid capture of Dutch possessions in the SW Pacific, and it was shot down by the Army, who didn't have the manpower. It was never brought up again. We actually have read their meeting records.
And no - there was also no such serious thing as 'The Brisbane Line' ... and the tank traps near Tenterfield weren't part of it either ... may as well get ALL of the furphies out now because you know someone is going to come out with 'well my grandad told me ...'
True, just like how Germany didn't have any plans on invading the UK, only to keep them at bay so they could then take on their main opponent the USSR.
@@OldFellaDave You're nearly there, the idea that Japan could invade Australia was actually mentioned twice. The first time and really the only one that gets mentioned was in early 1942 (the one that you were talking about) when Japan was rolling everyone up. The other time when it was mentioned was around mid 1942, just before the Battle of Midway. The idea was if Midway was successful then perhaps they could open up the idea of invading the Australian coastline.
Obviously Midway was a disaster for the Japanese so the idea was finally scrapped for the final time.
My dad was part of the 6th Division who had been in Nth Africa since January 1940. After Malaya and Singapore fell Curtain insisted that both the 6 & 7th Divisions should be brought home to defend the country. My dad left Egypt in late May, they sailed for Columbo in then Ceylon. They arrived in late June or early July. When they disembarked Churchill wanted them to go to Burma and join General Bill Slim’s army. Curtain argued black and blue against this proposal. Churchill then said that he would not provide the transport ships to get them home. Finally after 8 weeks Churchill gave in. They arrived home (Fremantle, Melbourne and Sydney) in late August or early September. After leave these two Divisions went to Queensland for re-equipment and jungle training. My dad spent another two years in New Guinea before being honourable discharge (on medical grounds) in November 1944. Had Churchill got his way who knows what could have happened to northern Australia ( and my dad).
Michael - great post and the truth,the IJF had taken Raboul and most of New Guinea and surrounded Port Moresby. Churchill didn't give a shyt he was worried about Rubber Trees in Burma and any other Imperial holdings - no matter how many ANZACs were lost keeping them. Along with Monty the two most inflated individuals and an impediment to the Allied war effort. Britain had much better. Winston didn't belong anywhere near a war room
Rommel personally had a photo of Aussies doing a bayonet charge. I suspect it was the 6th division in Crete. Our maoris joined in on the charge. You can be proud of your dad. The aussie 6th and 9th were top divisions.
while men in WWII certainly did that as Lt Col Robert Cole at Carentan it's a desperate measure for sure.Specially when considering the deadly mg-42s or crack German mortar teams. Uncommon valor as they say
His Company I, which started the day with 85 men was down to 23 effectives. His unit got flanked,to stay in the current location would leave his men horribly exposed. An attack by a German Stuka dive bomber only made things worse. To retreat would be just as bad. Cole realized that his best option - a grim one - was to order a frontal attack at dawn on the German positions just off the causeway to his front.
Having sent the weakened Company I to the rear, Cole brought up three companies (H, G, and headquarters) - 265 men in total - for the morning assault. *Ordering the men to fix bayonets and load fresh clips, Cole blew his whistle at 6:15am on June 11 and surged forward towards the German positions in farmhouses and behind hedgerows to their front right.* Moving quickly behind a smokescreen laid by American artillery.The 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment crossed the bridges that night to relieve Cole’s worn out unit. That regiment, along with the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment, would take the town the next morning.
Thanks to Cole’s attack and his battalion’s sacrifice, the strategic town of Carentan was in American hands. Cole’s men had paid a terrible price for their bravery. Of the 700 men in the 3rd Battalion, just 132 of the “Screaming Eagles” were left standing.
Later in September 18, 1944, Lieutenant Colonel Cole was shot and killed by a German sniper near the town of Best during Operation Market Garden in the Netherlands. Robert Cole’s brave actions at Carentan led to his being awarded the Medal of Honor on October 4, 1944.
@@jamestwilkins875 thank you for those words of care. Yes I and my brother are very proud of him. Unfortunately he died at age 51, many years ago.
Churchill he had no business taking like 50,000 troops from Richard O'Connor after his smashing victory in1940 campaign in the Desert. It weakened the Desert Forces then led to O'Connor's capture(he escaped) and other debacles there. Winston later screwed over Claude Auchinleck also after He and Dorman-Smith commanded the victory at the 1st battle of El Alamein. This led to the appointment of Montgomery who was in fact not nearly as accomplished commander as any of those men. But Churchill covered all of that up with his oratory. It was his political ass because he always interfered where he didn't belong - a war room. So he stuck with Monty who was in fact an impediment both militarily and to British and American Officers.
They should have installed Morshead but the British wouldn't allow it
This was all a logical consequence of Churchill's historical incompetence as a naval officer, or in any military or political position whatsoever.
Best Australian PM
Don't know much about Curtin,but if Churchill hated him, must have been a good guy.
They hated all Labor Leader's - They hated it when they were told off in 1933 when the then prime minister told them that from then on the australian government would appoint our own GG's and that they were to be australian and GG positions was not to be treated as some prize to be lavished on an english shill
As the PM said at he time " I am the duly elected representative of the australian people and you will appoint whom ever I damn well chose whether you like it or not "
The person he wanted to appoint was Sir Issac Issac's
Despite having signed in 1931 the Dominions Act that stated that all ex colonies upon gaining independence were souveriegn the english still treated everyone as vassals of the english crown
And they wondered why the various counties despised them - Having said that it wasn't the english it was their horrid government
As a younger person, I would have nominated Gough Whitlam as GOAT. His name even contains the acronym 😂. Clearly I need to find out more about John Curtin. What a legend. Terrific video. Please ditch the giraffe.
The bloke who went to a dodgy Iranian for a loan ? Obviously you were not alive at the time or realise why Whitlam was turfed out.
Churchill only hated him because Curtain stood up to him. When Japan declared war and began plans to invade Australia all of our troops were fighting against the germans in Europe and the Middle East. We had to draft conscripts from country Victoria to make a defence in PNG.
TRUTH
Modern jet fighter graphics in a ww2 documentary is an utterly lazy and stupid choice.
Curtain and Keating are the two prime ministers we don’t talk about enough, and don’t nearly get enough praise that they should. These two men shaped Australia as we know it.
Yes, Shaped Australia for the Worse !
Keating was hilarious, but an awful person. Hawke was a piss drinking legend and a traitor.
Keating gets plenty of mention. Curtin not so much.
1. Curtin.
2. Chifley.
3. Whitlam.
4. Fisher.
What the worst? I would put Whitlam no.1
Rubbish Howard/Fraser were the worst - You can add Hawke/Keating in there as well
It is often overlooked that Greece did not grant Churchill permission to enter the country with armed forces, fearing it would provoke Hitler. Upon the British arrival, the Greeks anticipated receiving arms and weapons but were met with outdated WW1 equipment and the language barrier further complicated matters. The British presence was deemed ineffective by the Greeks. Following the unauthorized British entry, the German invasion ensued, enabling the German forces to push forward from British position. Many British and some Greek soldiers were taken as prisoners of war by the Germans and sent to camps in Germany. Tragically, numerous lives were lost in British and American bombings, while other survivors managed to return to Greece. Among the Greek populace, there was a strong sentiment for the British to leave, as they were seen as ineffective and were blamed for committing grave offences against Greek civilians.